Legal? Employer deducting pay w/ no consent?

[reno97637]

Ok, I'm a massage therapist working for this particular spa for over 10 years switching between a full and part time employee. The spa got a new owner and went through some major changes in the past couple of months.
Moving on, we had a spa meeting about the new changes, this and that, and nothing really new.. BUT! Before the meeting ended, the owner and the manager talked about this advertising gift card thing and how everybody is going to get their pay deducted for this new promotion thing. They described it as "pennies getting deducted from your pay". It didn't bother me as I didn't have to sign anything and once again, they described it as "pennies getting deducted".
So anyhow, I get my pay stub today and bam! I get deducted this X amount and it's because of that gift card thing. And it's nowhere near what the owner and the manager described it as.
Is this right? Is a company even allowed to do this?

[2Valve0]

I've heard alot of ads on vibe lately for a website that you can look this stuff up...or you could try google? :dunno:

[97'Scort]

Not sure I really get what you mean, but if you mean "Can they deduct from my pay, as a salaried employee of the company, to pay for advertising?" then the answer is no.

However, if it's like a salon and you're paying for a chair or room or whatever and you make your money off clients, then yes, they can get everybody to chip in for advertising as long as there is a majority vote.

[King Banana]

What amount deduction are we talking about here?
Normally I wouldn't pry for information, but since you brought it up...

[JordanAndrew]

What is the title of the deduction? You mentioned that you got informed but you never signed anything? It definitely sounds fishy.

I would call the labor board to see if it's legal for them to do this deduction.

http://www.alrb.gov.ab.ca/contactus.html

Here's a link to the employment standard code, and while there are exeptions to the rule, for the most part this is what every employer should follow.

http://www.alberta-canada.com/investlocate/1002.html

[Amysicle]

Sounds a bit fishy. I tried to do a Google search for something that applied to Alberta and this Student Legal Service in Edmonton was all I could find. http://www.slsedmonton.com/civil/employment-law/#Deductions

Maybe you and your co-workers should go to a lawyer together?

[88jbody]

No they cannot take deductions you don't sign off on, but they can then fire you because terms of employment require these deductions.

I have been in that situation, and if you call the labor board the company will get a fine, and have to pay all the un authorized deductions back, but then you will be looking for a new job.

If you like your job, then you will just have to allow it, if not you should look for a new job. problem is you may get blacklisted if you cal the labor board then it will be hard to find a job in the same field again

[reno97637]

Ok to clarify things, the spa purchases (or makes) these gift cards that are sold at a couple of big box stores, like Wal-mart, etc. With our deduction in pay, that's supposed to help pay for that and in return, it's supposed to help bring in customers, new clients, spread the word out, etc.

Anyway, I got deducted $19 from my pay. I heard through the grapevine that the other employees got a bigger deduction.

I read this:

http://employment.alberta.ca/SFW/997.html

And the company shouldn't have taken anything out of a persons pay w/o consent. I think me and the co-workers will band together and talk to a lawyer.

[rage2]

You're going to get a lawyer over $19?

[JordanAndrew]

Originally posted by 88jbody
No they cannot take deductions you don't sign off on, but they can then fire you because terms of employment require these deductions.

I have been in that situation, and if you call the labor board the company will get a fine, and have to pay all the un authorized deductions back, but then you will be looking for a new job.

If you like your job, then you will just have to allow it, if not you should look for a new job. problem is you may get blacklisted if you cal the labor board then it will be hard to find a job in the same field again

I was just about to mention this as well. If the deductions aren't that bad, and you like your job, you'd probably have to swallow your pride and take a hit in your pay. You can try and negotiate this with your employer and see if there's a better way of doing this.

Given with this slow economy, it might be hard to get another job. If you can have another job lined up and you don't really like your current job, just go on and complain to the labor board to get your money back.

It's a shitty situation for sure but no employer is required to keep you employed for whatever reason. Employers are only required to give you a separation pay and/or two weeks notice depending on how long you've been with the company. The longer you've been with them, the longer they have to give you as notice. That's if you're getting laid off in good terms. If you get fired, no notice is required as long as you're getting fired with cause(For example theft, harrasment, etc.)

[adam c]

Originally posted by rage2
You're going to get a lawyer over $19?

for some people that's 3 hours work

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by adam c


for some people that's 3 hours work

Who's working for less than minimum wage?

or in a massage therapist case, 20mins.

[Cody D]

Originally posted by adam c


for some people that's 3 hours work

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/2994/nikesweatshop6761444.jpg (http://img695.imageshack.us/i/nikesweatshop6761444.jpg/)

[Rat Fink]

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[cam_wmh]

Originally posted by Rat Fink
At my work we'll get 50 dollar "gifts" that come with a T4 for 100 bucks that we have to claim on our taxes. Hows that for an ass rape without the courtesy of at least giving a reach around?

Sigh. I get those too.

[Nigel Mansell]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[quazimoto]

$19 Lawyer just screams Mr. Banjeree.

[JordanAndrew]

Originally posted by Nigel Mansell
Totally illegal and they cannot fire you for taking legal action against them. I would sue the pants off them; its not about the $19, its a point of principal.


Don't worry about losing your job, if they discriminate against you for any reason you can sue them again for major dollars. Too many people in Calgary are willing to get ass raped when it comes to employment.

You obviously don't know how it works here in Canada. You can't sue your employer "major dollars". Like what I mentioned earlier, employers don't have to keep you employed in their company. For the most part, everyone is replacable so don't think that just because you've been working in a company for years, doesn't guarantee you your employment in the future.

From the government website regarding employment:

Neither the employer nor employee has a statutory obligation to give notice of termination during the first three months of employment. This is consistent with industry practice that generally treats the first three months of employment as a probationary period.

Employer Initiates Termination

The length of notice an employer is required to give depends on the duration of employment and must be in writing. The minimum notice requirements that employers must give are:

one week - for employment of more than three months, but less than two years
two weeks - for employment of two years, but less than four years,
four weeks - for employment of four years, but less than six years,
five weeks - for employment of six years, but less than eight years,
six weeks - for employment of eight years, but less than 10 years, and
eight weeks - for employment of 10 years or more.

All this means is if an employer chose to lay you off, you are entitled to get some notice or just get paid out the equivalent of the amount of notice you are entitled in.

Now if you're fired with just cause, you are entitled to NONE of these pay or notice.


This is somewhat related to the OP because if the OP decides to pursue complaining to the labor board, he/she will endanger his/her employment.

link:

http://employment.alberta.ca/SFW/1474.html

[Nigel Mansell]

No, I'm sorry, you're totally mistaken here. The employer CANNOT discriminate against you in any way if you win a case like this against them, which the OP obviously would.

If the employer chooses to lay the OP off immediately after they receive notice of his/her complaint, it wouldn't be hard to prove that he/she were let go because of the complaint. It would be up to the employer to prove that they had no other option but to let this person go before anyone else.

[Nigel Mansell]

To give you an example, a co-worker of mine went after a plumbing outfit he had been working for because they had no being paying overtime. It is law in Alberta to pay time and a half after 44 hours have been worked in a week. Back in the early 2000s, NO construction company followed this rule because they knew that no one would complain for fear of reprisal.

He won his case, and the employer gave him a lay off a month later. He took them to labour court and they were forced to hire him back and give him back pay because of all the positive performance reviews he had received prior to this episode.

[CUG]

I don't even think you have to lawyer up for it. They can't do that. The principle of it sucks, as the company is making way more money than any of you are. The ads should be on them. I hate greasy business owners who fuck their employees.

[JordanAndrew]

Originally posted by Nigel Mansell
To give you an example, a co-worker of mine went after a plumbing outfit he had been working for because they had no being paying overtime. It is law in Alberta to pay time and a half after 44 hours have been worked in a week. Back in the early 2000s, NO construction company followed this rule because they knew that no one would complain for fear of reprisal.

He won his case, and the employer gave him a lay off a month later. He took them to labour court and they were forced to hire him back and give him back pay because of all the positive performance reviews he had received prior to this episode.

This case might have been an exception as there are other factors in the formula. Yes, he was entitled to his OT and all his hours and whatever else the company owes him, but in most cases I've seen, the employer isn't required by the law to keep their employees for whatever reason as long as they are given the proper notice/pay. At least that's what I remember from my law classes.

[Nigel Mansell]

You need to review your law notes! A company would be crazy to lay off an employee who files a legitimate complaint to the Labour Board.

[Rat Fink]

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[core_upt]

Originally posted by Nigel Mansell
You need to review your law notes! A company would be crazy to lay off an employee who files a legitimate complaint to the Labour Board.

do you have more to back this up then your friend's story?

My understanding is that 1) the employee should not have his pay deducted and can seek the Labour Board for compensation, but 2) the employer can terminate employment for any reason, so long as adequate notice is given.

[adam c]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Who's working for less than minimum wage?

or in a massage therapist case, 20mins.

Minimum wage is 8.80 so times that by 3 and then take off deductions

[Cos]

Originally posted by Nigel Mansell
To give you an example, a co-worker of mine went after a plumbing outfit he had been working for because they had no being paying overtime. It is law in Alberta to pay time and a half after 44 hours have been worked in a week. Back in the early 2000s, NO construction company followed this rule because they knew that no one would complain for fear of reprisal.

He won his case, and the employer gave him a lay off a month later. He took them to labour court and they were forced to hire him back and give him back pay because of all the positive performance reviews he had received prior to this episode.

In design shops you cannot work overtime. If you work overtime it becomes time off, you cannot charge more more money to the client because you are working past 44 hours a week.

The only way they are required to pay OT is if your are required to work it. If you choose to work 100 hours a week it doesnt matter they are not required to pay out OT.

[derpderp]

The store keep short changed me $0.05....time to call my lawyer.

[RickDaTuner]

If you are working full time, then your pay is being reduced by $0.12/h

[bubbley]

do you do rub and tugs? If you are you're still not being taxed on that as your just pocketing that money, so in a way it evens out.

[revelations]

Originally posted by reno97637
Ok, I'm a massage therapist working for this particular spa for over 10 years switching between a full and part time employee. The spa got a new owner and went through some major changes in the past couple of months.
Moving on, we had a spa meeting about the new changes, this and that, and nothing really new.. BUT! Before the meeting ended, the owner and the manager talked about this advertising gift card thing and how everybody is going to get their pay deducted for this new promotion thing. They described it as "pennies getting deducted from your pay". It didn't bother me as I didn't have to sign anything and once again, they described it as "pennies getting deducted".
So anyhow, I get my pay stub today and bam! I get deducted this X amount and it's because of that gift card thing. And it's nowhere near what the owner and the manager described it as.
Is this right? Is a company even allowed to do this?

As stated above, you mis-interpreted "pennies".

It wasnt pennies from your paycheque, but pennies from your hourly income (0.12$/hr)

Like rage said, its not worth the hassle.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by core_upt


do you have more to back this up then your friend's story?

My understanding is that 1) the employee should not have his pay deducted and can seek the Labour Board for compensation, but 2) the employer can terminate employment for any reason, so long as adequate notice is given.

There are certain reasons you cannot lay someone off for. For example you can't lay someone off because they're pregnant, because they're black, ect... Launching a law suit against the company is also not a reason to lay off. IF you can prove this is why they laid you off, you can launch a wrongful dismissal suit.

[HuMz]

Originally posted by Nigel Mansell
To give you an example, a co-worker of mine went after a plumbing outfit he had been working for because they had no being paying overtime. It is law in Alberta to pay time and a half after 44 hours have been worked in a week. Back in the early 2000s, NO construction company followed this rule because they knew that no one would complain for fear of reprisal.

He won his case, and the employer gave him a lay off a month later. He took them to labour court and they were forced to hire him back and give him back pay because of all the positive performance reviews he had received prior to this episode.

This isn't true, if a company banks your overtime at straight pay they don't have to pay you time and a half for any overtime worked.

[dexlargo]

Something doesn't seem right with this. Are you an employee or an independent contractor? How do you get paid, is it per massage or per hour? Do you pay for other marketing through deductions from your pay?

I kind of think that this is some kind of loosey-goosey arrangement where you take work as it comes in the door and the spa takes a cut for providing the workspace, marketing and other overhead. They probably just brought in a new marketing plan that costs more, but hopefully brings in more customers, so it may be to your benefit.

Am I warm?

[Nigel Mansell]

Originally posted by HuMz


This isn't true, if a company banks your overtime at straight pay they don't have to pay you time and a half for any overtime worked.

Wrong again. They can only do this if you sign an agreement allowing them to do so.

[Cos]

Originally posted by Nigel Mansell


Wrong again. They can only do this if you sign an agreement allowing them to do so.

Only exception to that law is if your in a union with a different agreement.

[HuMz]

Originally posted by Nigel Mansell


Wrong again. They can only do this if you sign an agreement allowing them to do so.

How am I wrong, you said "is law in Alberta to pay time and a half after 44 hours have been worked in a week" and I was just pointing out if its banked then it doesn't have to be time and a half.

And yes I know an agreement is signed when you are hired on, theres still quite a few plumbing and electrical companies that do this.

[Nigel Mansell]

It is illegal to have your OT banked and paid out at straight time later unless you've signed an agreement allowing the employer to do so.

[JordanAndrew]

Originally posted by Feruk


There are certain reasons you cannot lay someone off for. For example you can't lay someone off because they're pregnant, because they're black, ect... Launching a law suit against the company is also not a reason to lay off. IF you can prove this is why they laid you off, you can launch a wrongful dismissal suit.

Wrongful dismissal suit is one thing, nobody said that the employee can't sue the company if they fired them wrongfully. The point is, employers don't have to keep anybody working/employed.

When someone is wrongfully dismissed, they can sue and get the proper seperation pay, loss wages, ot, etc but that's about it. They don't necessarily have to keep them employed.

Nigel's friend probably has other factors in it that he isn't aware of or is not telling us, that's why he got to keep his job. Perhaps the company chose to keep him employed because they are forced to pay him out anyways regardless if he is working or not so the company might as well get some work out of it. That's how I see this situation.

[se7en]

okay, number one.

seriously, who works for minumum wage? that's just crazy. How can you live???

number 2

the employer just has to change your start time to a really inconvenient time, and wait by the door until you are late, and fire your ass on the spot(personal experience)

:rofl:

number 3

19$??!?!? If you get more 'clients' from this, is it not worth it?

bah, seriously. 19$? why even make a thread?

Why did I even waste 20$ of my time writing all this.