Honda S2000 snap oversteer

[shutterbug_art8]

How many of you actually had this happen to you? Is this a myth with these cars or driver issue? AP1 and AP2

[Skyline_Addict]

what kind of driving are we talking about here?
any car can have a "tendency" to snap oversteer if a driver always drives it a certain way.
s2000s are known to have a bump-steer issue, which can be easily resolved with an anti-bump-steer kit.

[syeve]

Is there such thing as a anti-snap-oversteer kit?

[whiskas]

It's not a myth.

The way the suspension geometry on the rear of S2000 (at least the AP1's) behaves, is that as load is placed on the wheel, it causes it to toe in, ANY CORRECTION while that load is being placed will cause the wheel to suddenly toe out to it's original state, causing you to suddenly spin out.

So if you're in the shit in the middle of a corner, the best thing to do is nothing, don't dump the throttle, don't stab the brake, don't jerk the wheel, just trust the suspension geometry. The deeper you get into that corner, the more toe-in it'll give you to keep you on track. You just have to make sure that you're not putting too much demand on your rubber.

[Kloubek]

^ I can see the issue. You totally corrected properly in that slide, but the car took over. That'd be pretty scary stuff if you weren't on the track.

Apparently the girl with you thought it was scary too, regardless of the fact there was nothing to hit. :)

[rc2002]

Of all the cars I've owned, the AP1 had the finest line between grip and no grip. I lost the back end on that car more times than any other RWD car I've owned.

I think the snap oversteer "myth" is quite accurate.

[Skyline_Addict]

Snap-oversteer and oversteer in general was something that was addressed in AP2s, which are known to be less prone to oversteer/twitchy because of the changes.

[A2VR6]

Yep, i've experienced it a couple times for sure in my car... cant tell you how many times i'd end up ass backwards haha. I installed a really huge and stiff front swaybar which really helped the car settle down, especially in quick transitions.

[shutterbug_art8]

Originally posted by richardchan2002
Of all the cars I've owned, the AP1 had the finest line between grip and no grip. I lost the back end on that car more times than any other RWD car I've owned.

I think the snap oversteer "myth" is quite accurate.


You ever "lost" it on the street?

[shadowz]

For me, a aggressive nonstagger with grippy tires, alignment and a few suspension mods made things much more predictable, Im sure a few s2000 owners who came for a ride with me can agree

[Skyline_Addict]

Yes. Shadowz car is a perfect example of how proper tuning and good tires can lead to a desirable effect.
A proper non-staggered setup will produce more "driver induced oversteer", meaning that its more predictable and controllable.

[rage2]

Are you guys sure it has to do with suspension? I always thought that it was because of where the power band sits, you're always at high rpms into corners (5500-9000rpms) where there's a HUGE amount of engine braking if you let off, which is exactly like pulling an e-brake mid corner. This has the exact same symptoms as whiskas described. Keep the throttle steady and steer out of it is the only way out.

Now, if you take the same corner balls out in a higher gear at 3500rpms and you can let off all you want, and it's not going to spin. The engine braking effect is a lot more subtle. Of course it's not going to be fast coming out, but it's why I think it's got to do with engine braking.

I've never owned a S2K, but I've driven quite a few of 'em, and I'm always sideways in the car but only when driving track aggressive. When I tone it down, for example keeping revs under 5000rpms but still driving hard, I find it hard to get sideways.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Try tracking an mr2 with 90s technology . Babies! L

[rage2]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Try tracking an mr2 with 90s technology . Babies! L
MK2's were in a class of their own. That thing spins like a top on the streets haha. I've spun one before. Not fun at all.

[whiskas]

The VTEC also engages violently enough that if you're in the middle of a corner and VTEC engages you will spin, or at least need to a new pair of underwear. And it doesn't matter how fast you're going either, I've spun out at autocrosses because I engaged VTEC in 1st gear going through a slalom.

And VTEC hits 1st gear at like 40-45kph, so technically I could spin out driving on residential roads without going over the speed limit :angel:

As I said before, when you're in a corner, don't do ANYTHING, the suspension is very easy to upset, even an upshift is enough to do it.

[shadowz]

Originally posted by rage2
Are you guys sure it has to do with suspension? I always thought that it was because of where the power band sits, you're always at high rpms into corners (5500-9000rpms) where there's a HUGE amount of engine braking if you let off, which is exactly like pulling an e-brake mid corner. This has the exact same symptoms as whiskas described. Keep the throttle steady and steer out of it is the only way out.

Now, if you take the same corner balls out in a higher gear at 3500rpms and you can let off all you want, and it's not going to spin. The engine braking effect is a lot more subtle. Of course it's not going to be fast coming out, but it's why I think it's got to do with engine braking.

I've never owned a S2K, but I've driven quite a few of 'em, and I'm always sideways in the car but only when driving track aggressive. When I tone it down, for example keeping revs under 5000rpms but still driving hard, I find it hard to get sideways.

Most of the time at the track Im either always in Vtec or right under it (taking corners) going through race city in my mind there isnt a corner that I take that has vtec engagment in the midst. AP1 is just very tail happy, but I agree anything under 5000 rpm I cannot see the car experiencing oversteer

[avow]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Try tracking an mr2 with 90s technology . Babies! L
i was waiting for someone to say something about the mk2 mr2s lol. i remember taking my non-staggered (215s all round) around the overpass at beddington and country hills high in the powerband and once i let off it just kept on going down the street... sideways... with the wheel cracked and me shitting myself... oh how i miss that car. :rofl:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Try tracking an mr2 with 90s technology . Babies! L

My MK2 made for great white knuckle fun in the winter.

[shutterbug_art8]

I test drove a AP1 today with 85k km. It has that clutch buzz on decel. Is this something to be concerned about? Doesn't slip or anything.

[shadowz]

Originally posted by shutterbug_art8
I test drove a AP1 today with 85k km. It has that clutch buzz on decel. Is this something to be concerned about? Doesn't slip or anything.

Wouldnt be too concerned, if you could try and find one with the TSB done

[rc2002]

Originally posted by shutterbug_art8

You ever "lost" it on the street?

You'd have to be driving pretty hard to lose it on the street. It's too dangerous to drive like that normally so the odd occassion when there were no cars around I'd induce the oversteer. It's never happened to me accidentally though.

Like it was mentioned in this thread, it really only happens when there's a combination of high rpm and hard cornering.