H22a, H23a1 H23a4?

[german]

which is the best in your opinion

[fast_cars]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[redbaron303]

They're honda motors.... prelude and accord I believe....


:) There's probably lots of information on here, keyword search each motor to see....

What's your application and what do you want out of it... :)

[german]

chris u know what it is

[fast_cars]

O...IC..

[sandman]

prelude engines

H22a = 5th gen lude
H23a1 = 4th gen lude
H23a4 = 4th gen lude

i thnk???
i thought the accords were the F20 and F22?

not sure which one is the vtec vsion on the 4th gens, i lways thought they were a 2.2 as well for SR-Vs

id say the H22a tho
there already was a thing on this a hile abck
oil squirters are the only diff between H22 and H23 and both made from same iron casting
all i remember from it
but i thnk the H22a was decided as the better on of the 2

[german]

*ahem* the H23a1 is 160 hp but more suited for turbo application

or so i've heard

[redbaron303]

I know, but someone else who doesn't could probably help you better than me if they know what you want Josh.

[german]

i want 200 hp without turbo, but the option of turbo application without worry :)

i'm not looking for that high of horse power because i will be tuning suspension, transmission and so on

then we will take her to the track chris and i will get whooped by the almighty skyline

[ryder_23]

Originally posted by fast_cars

no clue!!!!:confused: :confused: :confused:

so why you post then....

What car are you looking to put these into? or are you just asking for a basic census. well if its for your accord, I've seen one with an prelude engine (h22a) in it, pretty quick, except needs to have prelude tranny with it. Good potential outa that motor.

[german]

yeah obviously i'm going to have the matching tranny

but i'm pretty sure those are all lude engines

yes its for the accord too

its one of the better looking ones i've seen just because its a 2 dr and the lights are nice.. atleast the ones on the right side LOL

hey chris

[shadowz]

H22a1 would be from 92-95 preludes
H22a4 would be from 96-01 preludes
and H23a would be from 92-96 preludes

[german]

so if i were to go with the H23 what mods would you reccomend to get it up too 200 hp w/o turbo

[redbaron303]

You should go see the boyz at Speedtech in town there... Shit I forget their addy.... on 32nd I believe off deerfoot.... (i'm from etown so sorry if thats wrong but ya'll have phone books to look it up).

They've got quite the shop there...

I would just recomend some boost, I'm a boost addict (which probably isn't good)... :D

[rc2002]

The H22A is 200HP stock.

But if you insist on an H23, then do NOS! :burnout: :)

[redbaron303]

I think he wants an all motor build up option but isn't sure how to accomplish that.

[german]

man he said the n word i think i'll be sick

i don't wanna spend 2500 and then wreck my block

*rolls eyes* yes chris you know me well all motor :thumbsup:

[rc2002]

I was joking about the NOS... But if all you want is 200HP then the stock H22 will already give you that, you don't need to build up a different motor.

[german]

i realize this but i want easy turbo application with very little tuning, the H22a is not going to give me this

grrr

[redbaron303]

Well it can....

They have turbo kits for the H22's for the 5th gen ludes... I've just heard from a couple ppl w/ H series motors in their accords that the H23 is more practicle and more easily turboed (I'd have to ask them again why, it slips my mind now).


Vtec and a CAI sounds awesome IMO... hahaha

[german]

hmm, maybe the h22a will do i guess

this way its over and done with

and i can start modding the outside

[TalonVelocity]

h22a

[german]

or the h22a-s with an lsd tranny

[littledan]

Originally posted by sandman
id say the H22a tho
there already was a thing on this a hile abck
oil squirters are the only diff between H22 and H23 and both made from same iron casting
all i remember from it
but i thnk the H22a was decided as the better on of the 2

the h22 actually has an aluminum alloy cylinder block with fiber reinforced metal sleeves

[german]

yea so =P

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by shadowz
H22a1 would be from 92-95 preludes
H22a4 would be from 96-01 preludes
and H23a would be from 92-96 preludes
Actually the H22a1 is 93-96 (there were only H23's and F22's in 92), the 96's are OBDII H22a1's and H22a4's are 97+ :)


Originally posted by german
i realize this but i want easy turbo application with very little tuning, the H22a is not going to give me this

a H23 will be just as easy to turbo as a H22. Both setups will require tuning (unless your using a FMU). If you want to go with a FMU setup you should talk to LUDELVR about them, he'll tell you how good they are :D

The H23a VTEC were only available on the Accord Sir Wagon and has 197hp.

[german]

i'm thinking the h22a-s setup will be a good investment 220 hp with lsd woo woo

[gpomp]

You can almost buy two H22A's for the price of an S motor...

And FMU's suck.

[german]

i know that actually u can if they are the usdm ones

[buh_buh]

The H22a (S-spec) is pretty rare and if you can even find one will cost a fortune. Not worth it IMO. If you really want that extra 20hp, you can buy the Type-S intake, cams and pistons. But for the money you can make more power with different parts.
The Type-S tranny would be nice, but you can also buy just the LSD from a Type-S, but a quaife will cost less.

[german]

yeah i know chris told me that guy is great

[vtec]

they got F20 and F22 in the forth generation prelude as well.

[Primer_Drift]

H22a1(92-96) has a solid deck, h22a4 (late 96-2001 preludes) is open deck.
H23's have longer stroke and shorter rods, they rev differently than the H22's. The H23 head does not flow as well as the h22, and has a smaller quench area. Some peeps swap the head off and make a frankenstien H23-vtec. (with an h22 head..).
H22a4 is the best all around engine IMO, and can be found for a good price if you shop around.

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by vtec
they got F20 and F22 in the forth generation prelude as well.
A F20C is a S2000 engine and was the only F20 available in North America. There is a F20a and F20b (JDM engine) that was in an Accord though. The F20a4 I believe came in the 4th gen Preludes in the UK only. The F22 is the only one that came in the 4th gen Preludes in North America.


Originally posted by Primer_Drift
H22a1(92-96) has a solid deck, h22a4 (late 96-2001 preludes) is open deck.

H22a4 is the best all around engine IMO, and can be found for a good price if you shop around.
I wouldn't say the H22a4 is any better or worse than H22a1. The open deck design on the H22a4 is better for cooling compared to the H22a1, but open deck designs aren't as strong as closed deck designs if you plan on boosting it. Both have its flaws in design. And like I said earlier H22a1 was only made in 93-96 and the H22a4's were made from 97-01.

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by buh_buh
If you want to go with a FMU setup you should talk to LUDELVR about them, he'll tell you how good they are :D
F ucks M otor U p

Don't use it unless you really have to!! haha even then I would opt out for a standalone!!

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by buh_buh

I wouldn't say the H22a4 is any better or worse than H22a1. The open deck design on the H22a4 is better for cooling compared to the H22a1, but open deck designs aren't as strong as closed deck designs if you plan on boosting it. Both have its flaws in design. And like I said earlier H22a1 was only made in 93-96 and the H22a4's were made from 97-01.

I'd have to disagree with two of your points. I have an open deck h22a4 from a '96 BB4 (I have the vin), original motor, OBD1 p13 ecu, and not a jdm. I am guessing there might be slight differences I am unaware of between the BB6 OBD2 and BB4 harnesses. I have not compared them yet. I do know however, that the injectors are low impedance (peak and hold), and it has an injector resistor connected to the harness. To my knowledge the 97+ were high impedence injectors and used the P5P ecu.

Reason being I stated the A4 was better than the A1 is simply because of the head cooling, as you said also. Basically a 2nd gen design of the block. I wonder if the sleeve inserts on both blocks are the same? It wouldn't surprise me.

[buh_buh]

hm... something seems odd... They switched over to OBD2 in '96 in all cars (including the Prelude), so you should not have a OBD1 p13 ECU if its a '96 (assuming everything is original) regardless of whether its a H22a4 or H22a1. I have NEVER read of or heard of any H22a4 in any bb4 chassis, so I am still skeptical about this. I am absolutely positive the 96 engine is a H22A1 and a p13 ecu, it just has OBDII.

If you have a OBD2 ECU you will need a harness to convert to OBD1. Your are right about the injectors but the H22a4 ecu is a P5M. If you do have the 345cc injectors, it will not work in a H22a4 properly and will need the 290cc injectors.

[german]

good man :thumbsup: atleast someone is knowledgable around here

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by buh_buh
hm... something seems odd... They switched over to OBD2 in '96 in all cars (including the Prelude), so you should not have a OBD1 p13 ECU if its a '96 (assuming everything is original) regardless of whether its a H22a4 or H22a1. I have NEVER read of or heard of any H22a4 in any bb4 chassis, so I am still skeptical about this. I am absolutely positive the 96 engine is a H22A1 and a p13 ecu, it just has OBDII.

If you have a OBD2 ECU you will need a harness to convert to OBD1. Your are right about the injectors but the H22a4 ecu is a P5M. If you do have the 345cc injectors, it will not work in a H22a4 properly and will need the 290cc injectors.

Well I know where you are coming from, until I saw it with my own eyes I did not believe it either. The car I got my engine out of was a wreck, and because of the block number I was suspicious too.. The ECU & harness are OBD1, it came out of a BB4. I could be mistaken about the year but I will look into it, I have vin. I'll pm you, if you are interested. As it turns out in my case, it is the best possible block/harness combination I could have hoped for.
The ecu that came out of the same car was a p13, but I am not using it, nor am I using the 345cc injectors. Now that I think about it.. I'm not using much of that engine hahaha.. I need more money :(

[buh_buh]

Hm... that does seem very odd. If it is a '96 it should not be a OBDI ECU and harness, so I am curious to see how the P13 worked with the H22a4. Please pm me with details, I am interested in this peculiar setup.

[mutsuraboshi]

on the side:
wat cars DO the 5th gen lude engines swap into?
93 accord? :dunno:
and wat about a f20b, would that work with a 93 accord either?

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by mutsuraboshi
on the side:
wat cars DO the 5th gen lude engines swap into?
93 accord? :dunno:
and wat about a f20b, would that work with a 93 accord either?

H22s came in 4th and 5th gen ludes, swap into 92-00 Civic, 90-97 Accord, 92-02 Prelude, & 94-01 Integra. If I missed any or if any are wrong lemme know.
F20B's (200hp? JDM) swap into 90-02 Accord, 92-02 Prelude & 3G 94-01 Integra. But I am fairly certain there were several revisions of the f20B..

[shadowz]

Originally posted by mutsuraboshi
on the side:
wat cars DO the 5th gen lude engines swap into?
93 accord? :dunno:
and wat about a f20b, would that work with a 93 accord either?

All H series and F series such as F20B, F22, F23 all can be interchanged between accord and prelude. The two cars share the same chasis. And yes I agree with buh buh after 96 all Hondas were converted to OBD2 and also is when Honda changed the metal they used in their vehicles due to rust

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by mutsuraboshi
on the side:
wat cars DO the 5th gen lude engines swap into?
93 accord? :dunno:
and wat about a f20b, would that work with a 93 accord either? They can swap into anything. You just need engine mounts. :)

[german]

ok what would you suggest for my accord then?

[buh_buh]

Either a H22a1 or H22a4 will be fine.

[redbaron303]

What needs to be done to have that installed from the current motor in there....

IE: parts, custom mounting, wiring, etc?

[german]

probably the fwd clip

i don't think too much custom mounting

[mutsuraboshi]

Originally posted by Primer_Drift


H22s came in 4th and 5th gen ludes, swap into 92-00 Civic, 90-97 Accord, 92-02 Prelude, & 94-01 Integra. If I missed any or if any are wrong lemme know.
F20B's (200hp? JDM) swap into 90-02 Accord, 92-02 Prelude & 3G 94-01 Integra. But I am fairly certain there were several revisions of the f20B..



Originally posted by shadowz


All H series and F series such as F20B, F22, F23 all can be interchanged between accord and prelude. The two cars share the same chasis. And yes I agree with buh buh after 96 all Hondas were converted to OBD2 and also is when Honda changed the metal they used in their vehicles due to rust



Originally posted by buh_buh
They can swap into anything. You just need engine mounts. :)

ahhh thank god my ugly accord has hope!
i wanna f20b so badly :drool:

[german]

accords are only ugly cuz of their nasty bumper, i like the front lights they are pretty tight

[shadowz]

The mounts from accord and prelude are the same,. you do not need any custom mounts

[mutsuraboshi]

YES YES YES:eek: :clap:
so the f20b just slips rite in dont it.
im sure the tranny will be a hassle
mines a 93 SE... they are auto :s
actually the bumper is fine...
cuz the 93 bumpers are diff from the 91's

[mutsuraboshi]

couple of ppl msg'd me about f20b's for sale.
ill prolly need atleast 1 or 2 yrs b4 i can afford anything
:(

[fcuk_it]

the jdm f20b motor on the cf4 accord sir has Electrically Assisted Power Steering, so if you plan to do that swap on an accord/prelude then you lose power steering...

[mutsuraboshi]

if it has 'Electrically Assisted Power Steering' and i swap it into my cb7,
how exactly do i loser power steering then?

[fcuk_it]

unless you get the whole front clip of a cf4 accord you wont have power steering on your cb7, because your cb7 power steering is driven by a power steering pump and the f20b motor is electronically controlled by a computer...
well all the info for the f20b and the cf4 accord are on this site
http://asia.vtec.net/article/CF4/

[Primer_Drift]

It would probably be possible to rig it up, fabricating brackets is not rocket science.

[mutsuraboshi]

Originally posted by fcuk_it
unless you get the whole front clip of a cf4 accord you wont have power steering on your cb7, because your cb7 power steering is driven by a power steering pump and the f20b motor is electronically controlled by a computer...
well all the info for the f20b and the cf4 accord are on this site
http://asia.vtec.net/article/CF4/

Originally posted by Primer_Drift
It would probably be possible to rig it up, fabricating brackets is not rocket science.
hrmm im sure its possible to dril that control into my dash sumhow.
it would just cost sum money:dunno:
haha that accord is crazy, does it have wood trim?
man that car is beeautiful:drool:

[fcuk_it]

too bad we didn't get the cf4 accord... those are mad :bigpimp: but if u want the control and all that ish you'd probably need the whole front clip

[mutsuraboshi]

yea man, according to ur site the vehicle was met low emissions standards?
they could totally have brought it over

[german]

yes

ok now the questions is which series is better?

f series, or h series?

[gpomp]

I'd put my money on the H-series.

[donz]

actually depends on what you build. The F20b is an excellent N/A motor, the r/s ratio is better than the h22 and much better than the h23. If you do an all out n/a motor, with head and block work, you'll be able to rev higher than the h22. As for power steering, it can be done using h22 parts. It will require some fabrication though.
As for the h22 you get more torque right out of the box... can go n/a can go turbo, boost will make it fast. but there are issues there too.
h22a type s is higher compression, makes 220 hp, but will cost almost double..
If i had tons of money and they had the right gas at every pump, and a good tuner, i'd make a high compression f20b n/a motor.

[german]

hmmm

well eventually i will have alot of money... but i'm not goin to spend it on a fwd .. the most i'm willing to spend is 12-15 g's overall (not just engine)

[mutsuraboshi]

so the f20b guzzles hi octane?

[Primer_Drift]

haha no he means for all motor f20b he'd use "the right (octane rated) gas", high octane race fuel is not exactly available at every pump, and without it, his high compression n/a dreams would knock itself apart.

[german]

yes reading helps

[turbo444]

h22 all the way