Need opinions for home construction gurus...

[Kloubek]

So, with this latest flash snow and quick meltoff, I've noticed a couple of concerning thins with our new house. First, the downspouts on both sides of the rear of our house appear to be digging tunnels into the dirt. One side is pretty bad - about 1.5 feet deep, and a couple of feet across. The other side isn't as bad, but it appears all the water is tunnelling under our walkup stairs. Aren't the downspouts supposed to direct water AWAY from the house?

http://members.shaw.ca/kloubek/public/house3.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/kloubek/public/house2.jpg

The last picture I have is of how they installed the door to the basement. Is it normal to have wood beside the door like that? They have not completed the parging yet, but my understanding is that concrete is porous... so what should they be putting over that plywood to seal it from the elements before they put on parging?

The wood is a concern right now, because it is getting wet and the moisture is starting to leak into that corner of the door frame and slightly into the wall beside it. That CAN'T be good....

http://members.shaw.ca/kloubek/public/house1.jpg

Thoughts?

[sxtasy]

looks to me like they put up parging without any type of moisture barrier. Two layers of 30min paper should be properly lapped under all the parging. Blueskin should be applied around doors and drip flashing should be properly installed above the door. Why are they parging it in the first place? As for drainage, well you could put elbows on your downspouts, or install a pvc drain system.

Here is the building paper website that should explain how it is properly installed:
http://www.halind.com/content/walls_rainscreen.html

http://www.halind.com/content/products/BU0400.html

Blueskin: http://www.bakor.com/residential_weatherbarrier.asp

http://www.bakor.com/data/datasheets/BlueskinWB.pdf


To properly fix this you will need to remove the parging and wire mesh and expose a sufficient amount of building paper to tie into. Meaning the new building paper will be properly lapped with the existing building paper. Why is water collecting in that area in the first place?

[Kloubek]

Thanks. Actually, there is no parging on the concrete at all as it sits.

They are parging it for looks. They've done it on all the houses in my neighborhood.

With the recent snow (and subsequent melt), water has seeped in from the exposed wood at the bottom (just to the right in the picture) of the door. It has started to get into the wall behind the plywood you see, and therefore get into the doorframe.

[Kloubek]

So... nobody else knows if the wood beside the basement door is a standard construction method?

I would have thought it should be solid concrete right up to the doorframe....

[sxtasy]

yes, I believe they would need some wood to frame the door to. I would blueskin all around the door then parging on top.

[AndyL]

Got a copy of your plans? Tell ya in 30 seconds if that wood is supposed to be there...

My guess is no - whoever cribbed the basement didn't get the RO right or took a shortcut. Typically you'd have a 2x8 frame or similar added - but the concrete should extend past that side wall.

The more I look at that picture - the more I realize why I'll build my own house... OSB goes all the way to the concrete? Is there at least a drain in the floor there? Concrete sloped to get water away from the house?

[masoncgy]

Regarding the downspouts...

I assume, noticing that you have no parging completed, that the final grade has not yet been completed?

If not, then those holes from the downspouts will be filled and levelled off... but your downspouts are supposed to have extensions to divert the water away from the building... if the extensions are up, the water will pool & and crater against the foundation and that will eventually find it's way into your basement.

[HuMz]

Outta curiousity whose the builder? Looks pretty shoddy to me.

[Kloubek]

To answer the questions:
Masoncgy: I have received the grading certificate, so I figure that was supposed to be it.

HuMz: The builder is Centrex/Excel

AndyL: I looked at the plans, and the concrete is supposed to go right up to the door. I figure this might be ok, but I have no idea how they will be able to properly seal the bottom of that wood, as it is flush with the concrete. Yes, there is a drain at the bottom of the stairs.

So... here are the latest pictures now, one day later. There is a 2-ft pool of water sitting beside our foundation now on the one side. Both sides have started to sink now. The stair side isn't too bad yet, but you can see the cracks forming. On the bad side, there are cracks forming and the earth moving towards the hole for about a 5-ft radius around the hole.

http://members.shaw.ca/kloubek/public/construction1.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/kloubek/public/construction2.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/kloubek/public/construction3.jpg

[ddduke]

Why don't you take a #2 robertson and move your downspout? It's not like you're going to want a downspout in front of an entrance anyways. Also, when you have grass down it won't dig holes, I don't even know why this issue came up.

About the door issue, why don't you bring it up to the site super? Is that the finished product? If so, then that's wrong. Or are you making a huff before it's complete? When installing a door into concrete you don't have a perfect opening cored out, there's going to be wood framing it in. Generally home builders don't build things that aren't up to code.

And Humz, what does it matter who the home builder is? Do you have much experience in construction? Or are you just talking out of your ass and trying to burn another company at the stake for no reason?

[Kloubek]

dduke: Move it to where, exactly? If I turn it 90 degrees clockwise, the spout spills all the water into the neighbors yard - plus it runs across the path when walking beside the house. Turn it 180 degrees, and it builds up the water beside the house. Take it off, and it makes the current issue even worse.

Why did this issue come up? Well, if you take a very close inspection of my pictures, you just might happen to see that I HAVE NO LAWN. The ground is sinking RIGHT NOW, oddly enough. If I have concerns about how the water acts when I have a lawn in a year or two, then I'll be sure to make a follow-up thread ok?

I brought up the door issue to the super. I emailed him, as well as talked on the phone to the customer service rep at their office. I have yet to receive an explanation or any details from either. Clearly this is not the finished product; they would not leave wood exposed forever like that. However, what they plan to do in the future to finish it is not nearly as much of a concern to me right now as the fact it is leaking into my basement, and saturating the wood in the wall and doorframe. I'm pretty sure if you had leakage into the basement of your new half million dollar house you'd find it concering as well.

As far as making a "huff" - I'm not. Yet. That is why I came on here to see what is considered normal and what is not.

I believe he asked which builder it was so that if it turns out this is considered shoddy work, that he knows what builder NOT to go with. Seems a reasonable question to me....?

[HuMz]

Originally posted by ddduke
[Why don't you take a #2 robertson and move your downspout? It's not like you're going to want a downspout in front of an entrance anyways. Also, when you have grass down it won't dig holes, I don't even know why this issue came up.

About the door issue, why don't you bring it up to the site super? Is that the finished product? If so, then that's wrong. Or are you making a huff before it's complete? When installing a door into concrete you don't have a perfect opening cored out, there's going to be wood framing it in. Generally home builders don't build things that aren't up to code.

And Humz, what does it matter who the home builder is? Do you have much experience in construction? Or are you just talking out of your ass and trying to burn another company at the stake for no reason?

Who pissed in yourcorn flakes, some people really need to lighten up around here.

I didn't realize a simple question as to who the builder was talking out of my ass and trying to burn the company at a stake. (I take it you work for them?)

And to answer your question i'm a journeyman electrician, so yes I do have experience in construction (building my own house right now) and can tell good work from bad work most trades.

[Wrinkly]

Originally posted by Kloubek
So... nobody else knows if the wood beside the basement door is a standard construction method?

I would have thought it should be solid concrete right up to the doorframe....

Is that door way all below grade? If so then it 'could' be wood, but to my knowledge it is not standard practice and if wood is used, it has to be treated. From the picture, it doesn't look like it is.

Edit: From looking at your other pictures it seems the door is below grade. Is there no drain in the concrete floor outside that door to take away excess water during heavy rain/run off??

[AndyL]

The buckout itself doesn't bug me so much - as the fact that I can't see a sillplate or anything - whats to protect the wood from water seeping into it from the concrete?

However - still looks like the cribbers failed to build that RO correctly, and they've solved it by building in with wood... I'd rather the concrete right to the RO myself...

[Kloubek]

Wrinkles: There is indeed a drain down there - so at least the bottom of the door doesn't get submerged or anything.

Andy: That's what I was thinking - absolutely nothing! Now, they can put some sort of sheeting up so the transition from the concrete to the wood is waterproof.. but what about where the top and the bottom of the sheet? Am I going to be relying on some sort of adhesive/silicone to keep the moisture out? (Which eventually, it won't...)

[Wrinkly]

I think what you have there likely doesn't meet code and I would be asking the city and the builder how come it passed.

[AndyL]

No - you don't use caulking etc - when you lay a sill plate direct to concrete - you have to put sill gasket etc down - to keep the moisture from the concrete from rotting out the 2x? It is in the building code, although it's really hard for them to check for its existance....

Really sucks they put a downspout there, when you do your landscaping - why dont you do some trenching and have it run underground somewhere...

I really hate the work these eavestrough guys do, no forsight into what they're doing, they put the downspouts in the worst place every time... I've got 4 that come together over my front doorstep - all feeding into 1 - any time we get a good rain/snow - the 1 ends up overflowing...