Developing my basement - A stack of questions.

[ExtraSlow]

Looking to develop the basement of my house. What are some “must haves” for a basement development? It’s about 850 square feet, with nice high ceilings
I’m thinking:
- Subfloor over the concrete. Carpet.
- Bedroom with cheater ensuite. Heated floor in bathroom. Want this big enough to house a relative or nanny if needed.
- Big media room/kids playroom, yeah sadly I have to accommodate the rugrat(s)
- Enclose the electrical panel in a closet and put my media server, router and modem there. Upper floors are already wired for cat5e to that location.
- Room for upright deep freeze, bar fridge and some storage. Don’t want a wet bar.
- Might replace my water tank with a tankless unit. See this thread about it: Beyond.ca - Tankless water heater? (http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220435)

Anything I’m missing?

Also, looking for suggestions about general contractors for this kind of work. I’ve heard Callaway contracting is good. Any others?
What’s a typical per sq ft price for this? $30/ft? I’d like it to match the quality of my upper floors, which aren’t quite as baller as the rest of the beyond demographic, but are still a few steps up from a starter house.

And as a final question, is it a good idea to do some work myself? Me and my father in-law are 100% able to do the framing and electrical. No patience for drywall or finishing work. Does this stuff just piss off the contractors and end up not saving much? I’m cheap, but I’m also lazy, so I could go either way on this.

Looking for suggestions, never done any renos/development of this scale.

[FiveFreshFish]

Make the basement finishing match the upper floor(s). Same baseboards, same type of ceiling, same corners, same doors, same window coverings, etc.

How about a stacking washer/dryer? Could make the bathroom a bit bigger and put the units there.

Leave room for a microwave. Useful when you have a media room.

Have the heat registers close to the floor.

[ddduke]

Install a tv in the shower of your bathroom. I did this at my old place, cost me under $300 (including tv), took me about 90 mins and makes the bathroom look so much cooler.

[davidI]

Don't forget a cold air return.

Looks like you've already thought of it but wire in the cat5, cable, speakers etc. prior to sheetrocking.

[eblend]

Originally posted by davidI
Don't forget a cold air return.


Can you provide more details on this? I couldn't track mine down in my basement..unless it is that cylindrical thing right next to the furnace which looks almost like a CAI for a house.

[ExtraSlow]

I'm liking these ideas,keep them coming!

Also,
Originally posted by FiveFreshFish
How about a stacking washer/dryer? Could make the bathroom a bit bigger and put the units there. We've got an upper floor laundry, so that's taken care of.

[digi355]

Move your heat vents from the cieling to the floor.

[baygirl]

If you're going to have a kids playroom, it's a good idea to have built-in storage for all their toys.

[Alterac]

Insulate the ceiling and all walls, not just the outside walls. This will help a ton with sound, and heating/cooling.

[spacerz]

most contractors do not like to have the homeowners do "some" work and they do the "rest." If your handy why not just do it yourself, it really isn't all that hard. I would advise you to get a professional taper in there though, I find that is the longest, most time consuming part.

If your too lazy I've dealt with Shantel Developments Ltd. They are a small time company but do great work, I had my basement done up in panorama hills through them, and if I needed anymore work done, I'd call them in a heartbeat.

[davidI]

Originally posted by eblend


Can you provide more details on this? I couldn't track mine down in my basement..unless it is that cylindrical thing right next to the furnace which looks almost like a CAI for a house.

A cold air return is basically a vent that "vaccums" up the air that is blown out from your heating vents to cycle it through your house. Think of opening one window in your house and not feeling a draft....now think of opening two windows in your house and suddenly you can feel air movement within your home. This is the idea, to cycle the air / heat around your home. It's good to have one on every floor of your place, if not in every room. They're usually at ground level, as are heating vents, although in the basement often the heating vents are left in the ceiling as that's where the duct work is.

What you're describing sounds more like the vent to supply outside combustion air to the furnace.

[davidI]

Originally posted by Alterac
Insulate the ceiling and all walls, not just the outside walls. This will help a ton with sound, and heating/cooling.

I'm not sure I get this one. Why would you want to insulate between rooms? The house should all be the same temperature.

Sound deadening I understand, but that's completely different from your standard thermal insulation.

[FiveFreshFish]

If you have a walkout basement and an alarm system, add a glass-break sensor.

Plus a carbon monoxide and fire detector.

[asifka]

steam shower :thumbsup:

[Jim Rome99]

Coordinate the job yourself, don't get a General Contractor, you'll save loads of money.

[ianmcc]

Get permits.
And get a Hoyme damper put on that "cylindrical thing right next to the furnace which looks almost like a CAI for a house".
iQIQIA2M8tQ

http://www.hoyme.com/

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
Coordinate the job yourself, don't get a General Contractor, you'll save loads of money.

This.
Just do the parts that you feel comfortable doing and hire the rest out yourself. Really you just need: flooring, drywall, paint, plumbing, and heating. It should be a pretty straightforward job to organize and that will give you the opportunity to oversee it first hand and confirm the quality of the work. I recommend getting lots of pictures of previous work, visit the previous job site of whoever you hire, and actually call references. Many people make the mistake of seeing nice pictures, or a flashy company vehicle and they assume the quality of work is good, this is a bad assumption. Always call references, at least 2-3.

[Jim Rome99]

Buy a book or two on home renovation. I like the "for dummies" books myself, they really explain things well.

Keep in mind you'll have to do something like this:

Hire a framer to construct the walls, then

hire an electrician to rough in the wiring system, then

hire plumbers to do their thing, then

get inspections done for both, then

hire drywallers to stick drywall on top of the now framed walls, then

hire mudders to mud, patch, and smooth out the drywall, then

hire painters to paint the walls, then,

hire flooring guys to install carpet or hardwood floor, etc

I might have missed something important so make sure you talk to an expert or read some books before starting! PM me if you are in need of an electrician, that is what I am licensed to do and do for a living. If I can't help you myself due to my work schedule I'll be sure to hook you up with someone I know who is just as good as me.

One last thing: negotiate! Residential housing is the easiest part of all trades. Most guys like myself only work on houses when we're just new into the trade and we don't have the experience to work on commercial or industrial jobsites. Negotiate with the guys you are getting to do the work. Right now the residential construction market is very tight because there is not very much new construction going on. You can get most of these guys to do the work for next to cost, so shop around and don't be afraid to be nasty when you talk about cost, if you piss someone off there'll be twenty guys willing to come out and look at the job the next day, trust me. Good luck!

[garnet]

if was my basement, there are a couple of space saving items i would get in there

- murphy bed, it can look like a built-in against a wall (locked) and folds down when you need the bed for guests

- projector wall, why have a large tv when for the same $ you can make one whole wall a tv, using a hung projector for a screen size of 100"+, and its up high out of rugrats reach

- wall or ceiling mounted speakers, why have them take up space, and safe from rugrats, take the extra effort t have them boxed in properly and insulated, for best sound quality results

- to spoil the spouse, make the downstairs bath into a mini-spa, a waterfall / sunflower type shower (stress reliever), a soaker tub maybe

doing the general contracting yourself is fine, but instead of trying to hire multiple seperate contractors, try to get one or two that will do the whole job

get everything in writing before the start, and dont give any advance deposits no matter what, arrange to purchase all the materials yourself and have on site for them, these steps are to protect yourself

if you submit your permits with the bar area as if for a washer/dryer area, then you will be able to have a 220 + 110 plug put in + a sink, without question




Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Looking to develop the basement of my house. What are some “must haves” for a basement development? It’s about 850 square feet, with nice high ceilings
I’m thinking:
- Subfloor over the concrete. Carpet.
- Bedroom with cheater ensuite. Heated floor in bathroom. Want this big enough to house a relative or nanny if needed.
- Big media room/kids playroom, yeah sadly I have to accommodate the rugrat(s)
- Enclose the electrical panel in a closet and put my media server, router and modem there. Upper floors are already wired for cat5e to that location.
- Room for upright deep freeze, bar fridge and some storage. Don’t want a wet bar.
- Might replace my water tank with a tankless unit. See this thread about it: Beyond.ca - Tankless water heater? (http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220435)

Anything I’m missing?

Also, looking for suggestions about general contractors for this kind of work. I’ve heard Callaway contracting is good. Any others?
What’s a typical per sq ft price for this? $30/ft? I’d like it to match the quality of my upper floors, which aren’t quite as baller as the rest of the beyond demographic, but are still a few steps up from a starter house.

And as a final question, is it a good idea to do some work myself? Me and my father in-law are 100% able to do the framing and electrical. No patience for drywall or finishing work. Does this stuff just piss off the contractors and end up not saving much? I’m cheap, but I’m also lazy, so I could go either way on this.

Looking for suggestions, never done any renos/development of this scale.

[frozenrice]

What kind of ceiling are you thinking of? If you go with drywalled ceilings, you should consider doing a waterline to the fridge and a water softener rough-in. That way if you ever add those things in later, you wont't have to worry about trying to fish things in after. You might also consider doing vac rough-ins before you board the walls.

[C_Dave45]

You guys throwing out all this advice crack me up.

First off, you have guys saying..."oh add this...oh and one of those...oh and some more of those". The very first step is deciding what your budget is. Not "what do I want down there". Each of those "little things" add to the cost.

To add a "spa" type bathroom with waterfall, soaker tub, rainshower etc....you're talking about a $15-20,000 project right there alone.

THEN...you're all saying "oh its easy...contract it out yourself, you'll save loads of money". There's a reason that "general contracting" is a very skilled trade in itself. I've been in construction for 29 years, and even *I* will bow down to a skilled contractor. Generally, contractors run off a 15% profit margin over and above all the subtrades and materials. So even IF you get each and every sub-trade that is top notch, and you time everything right, you will save only 15% of the total reno. A contractor has a bunch of good guys at his disposal. Guys that will show up..will give a good deal for quality work. If you think you can just look in the yellow pages and get each sub-trade and get them to give you the best price and work within your time schedule, your sadly mistaken.

Buying all the material yourself? Sure great idea...if you want to pay top retail prices. Then you happen to buy the wrong stuff for a particular application, and the tradesman tells you "you cant use THAT". Or you're short on a certain material and have to buy more....then find out its discontinued, or the tradesman wants to charge you more for additional trips, service calls, working with crappy materials, etc etc. The list is endless.

Get young guys who are new into the trade and willing to work for cash on the side?....uh huh....another great idea. :rolleyes: They also have no "business name" to worry about, and the minute they have something come up in their personal lives, they disappear, never to return. Now try to find a skilled tradesman to take over the job half-way through. Good luck with that. Not to mention that if you are supplying all the material and have people working on your home....YOU are responsible for their WCB coverage. If some idiot, part-time carpenter cuts his thumb off...he can go to WCB and they will come after YOU. Get a young 1st year plumber willing to work for cash and he doesn't do a join properly and 2 months later you've got $10,000 damage from a slow leak in behind your walls...thats on you!

Bottom line is this; Unless you have a fairly decent knowledge of construction and renovation, or you can do a lot of it yourself... when investing tens of thousands of dollars into the equity of your home....its best to leave it to the professionals. If you just want a "hack job" and throw up some drywall, paint and cheap carpet...then by all means read the "renovation for dummies" book and have at 'er.

[garnet]

the guy asked for many ideas, get off the box



Originally posted by C_Dave45
You guys throwing out all this advice crack me up.

First off, you have guys saying..."oh add this...oh and one of those...oh and some more of those". The very first step is deciding what your budget is. Not "what do I want down there". Each of those "little things" add to the cost.

To add a "spa" type bathroom with waterfall, soaker tub, rainshower etc....you're talking about a $15-20,000 project right there alone.

THEN...you're all saying "oh its easy...contract it out yourself, you'll save loads of money". There's a reason that "general contracting" is a very skilled trade in itself. I've been in construction for 29 years, and even *I* will bow down to a skilled contractor. Generally, contractors run off a 15% profit margin over and above all the subtrades and materials. So even IF you get each and every sub-trade that is top notch, and you time everything right, you will save only 15% of the total reno. A contractor has a bunch of good guys at his disposal. Guys that will show up..will give a good deal for quality work. If you think you can just look in the yellow pages and get each sub-trade and get them to give you the best price and work within your time schedule, your sadly mistaken.

Buying all the material yourself? Sure great idea...if you want to pay top retail prices. Then you happen to buy the wrong stuff for a particular application, and the tradesman tells you "you cant use THAT". Or you're short on a certain material and have to buy more....then find out its discontinued, or the tradesman wants to charge you more for additional trips, service calls, working with crappy materials, etc etc. The list is endless.

Get young guys who are new into the trade and willing to work for cash on the side?....uh huh....another great idea. :rolleyes: They also have no "business name" to worry about, and the minute they have something come up in their personal lives, they disappear, never to return. Now try to find a skilled tradesman to take over the job half-way through. Good luck with that.

Bottom line is this; Unless you have a fairly decent knowledge of construction and renovation, or you can do a lot of it yourself... when investing tens of thousands of dollars into the equity of your home....its best to leave it to the professionals. If you just want a "hack job" and throw up some drywall, paint and cheap carpet...then by all means read the "renovation for dummies" book and have at 'er.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by garnet
the guy asked for many ideas, get off the box


ROFL....I can see you are very experienced with all your suggestions.
..try to get one or two that will do the whole job :rofl: :rofl: We call those guys "glorified DIY'ers" or "Jack of all trades...master of none".

The OP asked:


looking for suggestions about general contractors..... I’d like it to match the quality of my upper floors, which....are still a few steps up from a starter house.... is it a good idea to do some work myself?.... never done any renos/development of this scale.

To me that says he wants a fairly nice reno done, and on a tight budget...and you just suggested to him to get some DIY'er and add about $30,000 of "neat stuff" to his reno.

Great suggestions there chief. :thumbsup:

[Jim Rome99]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
You guys throwing out all this advice crack me up.

First off, you have guys saying..."oh add this...oh and one of those...oh and some more of those". The very first step is deciding what your budget is. Not "what do I want down there". Each of those "little things" add to the cost.

To add a "spa" type bathroom with waterfall, soaker tub, rainshower etc....you're talking about a $15-20,000 project right there alone.

THEN...you're all saying "oh its easy...contract it out yourself, you'll save loads of money". There's a reason that "general contracting" is a very skilled trade in itself. I've been in construction for 29 years, and even *I* will bow down to a skilled contractor. Generally, contractors run off a 15% profit margin over and above all the subtrades and materials. So even IF you get each and every sub-trade that is top notch, and you time everything right, you will save only 15% of the total reno. A contractor has a bunch of good guys at his disposal. Guys that will show up..will give a good deal for quality work. If you think you can just look in the yellow pages and get each sub-trade and get them to give you the best price and work within your time schedule, your sadly mistaken.

Buying all the material yourself? Sure great idea...if you want to pay top retail prices. Then you happen to buy the wrong stuff for a particular application, and the tradesman tells you "you cant use THAT". Or you're short on a certain material and have to buy more....then find out its discontinued, or the tradesman wants to charge you more for additional trips, service calls, working with crappy materials, etc etc. The list is endless.

Get young guys who are new into the trade and willing to work for cash on the side?....uh huh....another great idea. :rolleyes: They also have no "business name" to worry about, and the minute they have something come up in their personal lives, they disappear, never to return. Now try to find a skilled tradesman to take over the job half-way through. Good luck with that. Not to mention that if you are supplying all the material and have people working on your home....YOU are responsible for their WCB coverage. If some idiot, part-time carpenter cuts his thumb off...he can go to WCB and they will come after YOU. Get a young 1st year plumber willing to work for cash and he doesn't do a join properly and 2 months later you've got $10,000 damage from a slow leak in behind your walls...thats on you!

Bottom line is this; Unless you have a fairly decent knowledge of construction and renovation, or you can do a lot of it yourself... when investing tens of thousands of dollars into the equity of your home....its best to leave it to the professionals. If you just want a "hack job" and throw up some drywall, paint and cheap carpet...then by all means read the "renovation for dummies" book and have at 'er.

This guy speaks the truth. If you aren't familiar with construction yourself to begin with, it is better to pay the extra money and hire a GC to coordinate the job for you.

[garnet]

actually i am, but stay on your high horse if it pleases you, chief!

it's called a renovation contractor, and the OP is better off that route then to try and hire several different individual contractors on his own

this thread is to help the OP, not for childish remarks





Originally posted by C_Dave45


ROFL....I can see you are very experienced with all your suggestions. :rofl: :rofl: We call those guys "glorified DIY'ers" or "Jack of all trades...master of none".

The OP asked:



To me that says he wants a fairly nice reno done, and on a tight budget...and you just suggested to him to get some DIY'er and add about $30,000 of "neat stuff" to his reno.

Great suggestions there chief. :thumbsup:

[garnet]

oh, and what missed you completely, is the shower accessories for overhead water dispense, not an actual "waterfall" in a shower :rolleyes:
they are a few hundred, not $30K you're on about

i get a kick out of the few guys that act like they are the only good quality or knowledgable contractors
to each his own!


Originally posted by C_Dave45


ROFL....I can see you are very experienced with all your suggestions. :rofl: :rofl: We call those guys "glorified DIY'ers" or "Jack of all trades...master of none".

The OP asked:



To me that says he wants a fairly nice reno done, and on a tight budget...and you just suggested to him to get some DIY'er and add about $30,000 of "neat stuff" to his reno.

Great suggestions there chief. :thumbsup:

[frozenrice]

C_Dave 's estimate of $15-20k (not $30k) is for the entire bathroom. Plumbing, electrical, flooring, cabinets, etc. Not just the plumbing fixtures. What are you basing your 'couple hundred' on? Home depot?

[garnet]

the reply is about a fixture, not making some $30K bathroom, as clearly typed

i'll spell it out for you guys,

if your developing then is the time one can take advantage of installing the additional plumbing from a typical single head shower, for a multi-head or overhead or other style setup

here is one type
http://www.decorisland.com/detailsfeed.asp?productid=10101&optionid=84252&feedid=20&utm_source=Nextag&utm_medium=CPC&utm_content=Nextag_Moen_275&utm_campaign=Nextag_Bathroom_Bathroom_Faucets_Shower_Faucet_Kits_Shower_Kits

it doesnt require some custom tiled enclosure, it doesnt require some expensive custom hardware, it's a simple upgrade which can make an ordinary shower much more enjoyable

yes, you can make slight changes to specs and improve a room from a standard bath to something better without adding huge additional cost

there are several reasonable tubs available now too, with the depth of a soaker, non-jetted ones will obviously be cheaper then jetted ones

we did both of these upgrades in renos to our first house and was well worth the small additional effort

simple


Originally posted by frozenrice
C_Dave 's estimate of $15-20k (not $30k) is for the entire bathroom. Plumbing, electrical, flooring, cabinets, etc. Not just the plumbing fixtures. What are you basing your 'couple hundred' on? Home depot?

[ExtraSlow]

Some great suggestions above.
I know my own limitations, and I won't be my own general Contractor. At most I'll do the Framing and/or the Electrical. Other people may have more time to devote tot his and undoubtedly save themselves some money.

One thing that hasn't been answered yet is what does one typically pay per square foot? Assuming that all the work is done be the pros.
Obviously it depends on the quality, so let's say for three different types of basement
1) typical "starter" home quality
2) Mid Level
3) Beyond Baller (tm) quality

That'll really help me figure out if I'm looking at a steam shower, or something cheaper.

[frozenrice]

Originally posted by garnet
the reply is about a fixture, not making some $30K bathroom, as clearly typed



My bad I missed that part of his post.

[ExtraSlow]

Anyone have ballpark per square foot costs?

[garnet]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Anyone have ballpark per square foot costs?

you could use the $30 sq.ft you posted as a base line for budgeting, it will go up or down from there based on specifics
as a contractor, i usually avoid a client framed reno, usually it adds to my work at the board-in stage to make it right again
if you're looking to save some $ then join in the building with the contractor leading, that's the best way to help
for each 850 sq.ft reno i would quote, they each would be different anyhow, i honestly don't go by sq.ft unless is flooring or staight paint work
better is to get 3-4 quotes and compair, that'll give you an idea quick about the medium $ to expect

[ExtraSlow]

Looks like the wife and I are much closer to pulling the trigger on this. You guys had some great suggestions last time, I'm hoping for a few more.

Update: I'm not doing any framing or electrical myself. Work has gotten super busy, and it's just not realistic. So this will be 100% handled by the contractor.

any suggestions for the general contractor?