School - Go In or Stay out

[torob]

I was reading

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59877

And the discussion was very interesting, and rage2 was making a point - which I've been thinking about for a long time but was one of those things where it was just myself and i wasn't sure of it. That is, if there is really a point getting a degree and if in the end it'll be worth while.

I don't want to continue that long discussion from 04... But i was interested because I too am going to be going to Computer Science, or be in IT sector / tech stuff..
Only some courses holding me back, and i have a month to finish 2 whole courses to be able to get to the Uni stage. I could do it by hauling ass but i find it difficult because, i haven't "convinced" myself that i need to... since it doesn't strike logic just yet, and I've got no drive to keep going... (I know if i do have a drive or reason or see a point to continue then it can be done)

I think rage2 went to CPSC (from what i read..) - and was in someway in pretty much the same situation as me, and saw that continuing Uni was pointless as in the sector - the end all was no different than going on your own... This is what I've been questioning for the past couple of months.

Cliffs on myself:
-- I'm not really that into programming but I think i should give it a chance because i took programming in high school and had a bad teacher - started off bad.. which made me hate programming bad (I'm willing to start and learn again though)
-- I'm better than average on computers in software / hardware, i have pretty good knowledge of it all and I've taught myself as I've used it since Grade 2 in all aspects

So here is my take, there is pressure, by family / friends and whatever, but the general idea is University = Success <-- I haven't really seen much of that to believe it, especially in what I'm planning to go through (Computers / IT - Tech)

From what I've seen / heard / been told, if i was to summarize everything, it would be this..

1. Study Computer Science in UofC
2. ????
3. Profit

It seems BS

I'm opening this thread to gain information and learn some more about the options i can have.. to open my eyes a bit

I know the Comp Sci situation / sector is a bit different and its pointless asking those around me, for example my friends are going to med school / engineering which as stated in the 2004 thread, a DEGREE is a must.. but not so much for the IT sector

To strike down the judging, I'm not trying to run from any schooling or take a easy route.. I'm not lazy to not be studying -- matter of fact i really enjoy learning
Going to university however, i play the situation in my head and in the end it doesn't make sense.. (going to the comp sci field)

An example in regards to learning - I have my courses right now but I'm slowly going through them with 0 motivation. I think its because maybe subconsciously i still see no point.
This doesn't mean i sit and watch TV all day and be a couch potato.. I learn a lot and search around a lot to learn, whether it be in regards to politics / automobiles / planes / environment / whatever it is I'll be looking into it with interest. To the point when there is conversations about any topic, i at least know a little bit to add... Like HERE (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/301478/94-protege-lil-problems/) -- I'm not much of a car guy, but I like learning about shit and experiencing

I've looked around and have little idea where to step foot.. On one hand I hear University = Success but i question it.. on the other, i see open fields so I'm not sure what my options are, hence the thread

I did look into SAIT database administrator which i think is a 2 year program, but its hands on work and they put you to work and you go from there.. But I've been told its a shit decision and though there isn't much reason to back that up, my own common sense is filtering it a bit.. but that could be because i don't know too much about it

I apologize for the big blocks of text,
But It doesn't hurt to ask and I'd rather hear some opinions that might be of some help than none at all,

So I'll appreciate any feedback

[tch7]

Seems like you've made up your mind.

My advice is don't waste your money and time going to school if you have no motivation to be there.

The best way to get that motivation is to looks for jobs, work at them for a while, and discover how little room there is for advancement due to your lack of credentials. Alternatively, you may beat the odds and be able to progress quite nicely without a formal education. Similarly, you could end up in a dead-end job even with a formal education.

[Antonito]

If you're going to follow Rage2s lead, then you have to compare your situation to his top to bottom. When he decided to bail on school he'd already been hustling his ass off getting connections, business leads and generally getting his name out there to people who matter. I don't see any of that in your post. If you want to go that path, I'd say spend a year going balls out and then re-evaluate. If you have success and seem to show an aptitude for making your own way, then continue on. If after a year you haven't really gotten anywhere, you should probably go to school, it has built in networking and at least a piece of paper to rely on.

[G]

Not to shoe shine Rage2 but he seems very bright naturally, the type that can learn very quickly on their own.

[torob]

Originally posted by tch7
Seems like you've made up your mind.

My advice is don't waste your money and time going to school if you have no motivation to be there.

The best way to get that motivation is to looks for jobs, work at them for a while, and discover how little room there is for advancement due to your lack of credentials. Alternatively, you may beat the odds and be able to progress quite nicely without a formal education. Similarly, you could end up in a dead-end job even with a formal education.

I haven't, I'm just using multiple sources to get as much information as i can. I'd rather be knowledgeable on my options than to blindly do something...

Which is why i did the thread to see what opinions are, especially for those in the IT sector - and how it plays out..

[Jlude]

It really depends on the person and personality. It can be done though, you don't NEED to go to school. Personally I think you have to be in a field that you're intensly interested/passionate about. That's key!

I never went to uni or college, and I own a successful consulting company with 90% of my competitors have post secondary education.

[rage2]

Originally posted by torob
I think rage2 went to CPSC (from what i read..) - and was in someway in pretty much the same situation as me, and saw that continuing Uni was pointless as in the sector - the end all was no different than going on your own... This is what I've been questioning for the past couple of months.

Cliffs on myself:
-- I'm not really that into programming but I think i should give it a chance because i took programming in high school and had a bad teacher - started off bad.. which made me hate programming bad (I'm willing to start and learn again though)
-- I'm better than average on computers in software / hardware, i have pretty good knowledge of it all and I've taught myself as I've used it since Grade 2 in all aspects
I was introduced to programming and started writing code in Grade 4, that's 9 years old. Most of the top programmers I know started at a young age around that time. If you're not that into it and just starting to learn programming now, you have a LOT to catch up on. It's a little easier now with the rich development tools out there compared to the old days, but seeing all the guys that started late and only learning in high school and going through the CPSC program, the norm is mediocre talent going that path, with a few here and there that are exceptional developers.

If you're have well above average IQ and can learn fast, you can definately do it. Just remember all those geeks in the computer club in high school that get made fun of, they have a huge advantage over you at this point.

Since you've been tinkering with computer hardware and software since you were young AND you seem to enjoy it more than programming, I'd expect you're above average compared to your peers, so I'd bet going the IT route would be a better choice for you.

That's my opinion anyways.


Originally posted by torob
So here is my take, there is pressure, by family / friends and whatever, but the general idea is University = Success &lt;-- I haven't really seen much of that to believe it, especially in what I'm planning to go through (Computers / IT - Tech)

From what I've seen / heard / been told, if i was to summarize everything, it would be this..

1. Study Computer Science in UofC
2. ????
3. Profit

It seems BS
And you're right, it is BS. There is no IT specific programs at the U of C that I know of. If that's the direction you're heading, the CPSC program will be a complete waste of time and money. Hell, even if you were into programming and are proficient at it at this point in your life, I still think the CPSC program is a waste, because you would be well ahead of the curve already.


Originally posted by torob
I've looked around and have little idea where to step foot.. On one hand I hear University = Success but i question it.. on the other, i see open fields so I'm not sure what my options are, hence the thread

I did look into SAIT database administrator which i think is a 2 year program, but its hands on work and they put you to work and you go from there.. But I've been told its a shit decision and though there isn't much reason to back that up, my own common sense is filtering it a bit.. but that could be because i don't know too much about it
I think at this point you have to figure out what you want to do. There are many directions in the world of IT.

Hardware/Software, Networking/Security, Databases (you'd want a bit of programming experience). There's lots of choices, and none of those would benefit from a CPSC degree IMO.

[Hakkola]

I applied for a couple of programs, just to take a couple GPA boosters for law school.

I got accepted into 3rd year of a Computer Science program (I finished another degree last summer), and I'm contemplating doing it, especially since I got a scholarship I can use this year.

The question is, if I'm bored to death of math am I going to regret taking computer science courses?

[npham]

Very few pure math type of courses in Comp Sci. Probably about 4 or 5 in the entire degree. The courses towards the end of the degree go like this:

1. Prof lectures.
2. Assignments do not resemble lectures.
3. Midterms and Final is based on lectures with maybe 15% on labs/tutorials.
4. But you learn the most from going to tutorials and completing assignments.

The degree doesn't really teach you any real life skills besides some programming, but it does open a door for you if you are many of us who don't have an "in" or connections in the industry. Pretty tough to get a job without experience AND education. University is meant for teaching you how to learn and developing your brain to think a certain way(problem solving, creativity, etc).

Sounds like you are better off going to SAIT and doing some hands on stuff and work placements.

[PaleRider]

...
Sounds like you are better off going to SAIT and doing some hands on stuff and work placements.
+1, sounds like you prefer IT infrastructure (network/storage/sysadmin)...SAIT should be sufficient.

[rage2]

Originally posted by npham
The degree doesn't really teach you any real life skills besides some programming, but it does open a door for you if you are many of us who don't have an &quot;in&quot; or connections in the industry.
Judging by the huge number of CPSC retards I've seen, that piece of paper won't get you through any doors. :rofl:

Correction. The door to Superstore is always open!

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by npham
Very few pure math type of courses in Comp Sci. Probably about 4 or 5 in the entire degree. The courses towards the end of the degree go like this:


I haven't taken a math class since 2003 or so, will I have any problems with these courses or is it all new stuff?

[torob]

Originally posted by PaleRider

+1, sounds like you prefer IT infrastructure (network/storage/sysadmin)...SAIT should be sufficient.

I haven't had specific experience in any top IT infrastructure stuff - so I'm not too sure on it either.
I have little knowledge in every part of computers, which makes it hard for me to choose a specific to go in

I've played with some IT stuff, I went to a IT networking class once to see how it is and i thought it was neat though that was a while ago. I've done a bit of programming, I've done hardware reading - as to how they work... software I've obviously played with software, and experienced some "design" in regards to gaming.

A full mixture of everything, but like i said since i didn't go head first into anything - for example rage went into programming and started that... makes the decision harder

I guess what would make sense would be to do a first year at UofC and see how it goes.?

[themack89]

Change your perspective on how to approach life.

Rather than chasing a high salary and not be completely fulfilled, instead chase something that you will enjoy 100% and you will love to wake up in the morning to do it. Hopefully whatever this is will help you pay the bills.

In your downtime you should figure out SEPARATELY what you can do with your salary (or other means) to generate that financial prosperity we all yearn for.

Hell, you seem to be just like me where you know a whack load about computers (I've been in and around them since grade 3) but the major difference here is you seem to have a passion for it because you're actually considering taking CPSC. I would NEVER consider that because it simply doesn't tickle my fancy. I am one of those 3.5+ GPA students (not to sound conceited) and I dropped out of Haskayne 2 years in so I could learn how to drive a truck. Why? I effing LOVE IT. Nothing puts a bigger smile on my face and sets me free than hittin the road and just cruisin.

Sure, I'll probably make 60 to 70k tops. But during my downtime I have been seeking my other passion--financial markets. For years I have been exploring every level of this crap and I have finally decided which I want to pursue with my income.

So fella, separate your career with your financial goals. This way you will achieve both happiness (almost immediately) and prosperity (almost eventually).

Everyone is so short sighted.. *GASP* You dropped out of university to drive a truck? Why are you throwing your life away??? They just have no perspective. I don't want to hate my life so this is what I'm doing.

[torob]

Originally posted by themack89
Change your perspective on how to approach life.

Rather than chasing a high salary and not be completely fulfilled, instead chase something that you will enjoy 100% and you will love to wake up in the morning to do it. Hopefully whatever this is will help you pay the bills.

In your downtime you should figure out SEPARATELY what you can do with your salary (or other means) to generate that financial prosperity we all yearn for.

Hell, you seem to be just like me where you know a whack load about computers (I've been in and around them since grade 3) but the major difference here is you seem to have a passion for it because you're actually considering taking CPSC. I would NEVER consider that because it simply doesn't tickle my fancy. I am one of those 3.5+ GPA students (not to sound conceited) and I dropped out of Haskayne 2 years in so I could learn how to drive a truck. Why? I effing LOVE IT. Nothing puts a bigger smile on my face and sets me free than hittin the road and just cruisin.

Sure, I'll probably make 60 to 70k tops. But during my downtime I have been seeking my other passion--financial markets. For years I have been exploring every level of this crap and I have finally decided which I want to pursue with my income.

So fella, separate your career with your financial goals. This way you will achieve both happiness (almost immediately) and prosperity (almost eventually).

Everyone is so short sighted.. *GASP* You dropped out of university to drive a truck? Why are you throwing your life away??? They just have no perspective. I don't want to hate my life so this is what I'm doing.

+1, I've been taking, "advice" if you will, by people who say University is the end all - with a grain of salt.. i had a feel as to how it is in reality which is just how you explained. Thats why i made the thread to see the opinions of others, so I'm glad I'm not too far off the track

My main problem right now is i can't pinpoint to the specifics.. For example you had cruising / trucks down..

[themack89]

Originally posted by torob


+1, I've been taking, &quot;advice&quot; if you will, by people who say University is the end all - by a grain of salt.. i had a feel as to is in reality which is how you explained. Thats why i made the thread to see the opinions of others, so I'm glad I'm not too far off the track

My main problem right now is i can't pinpoint to the specifics.. For example you had cruising / trucks down..

Then I suggest you really focus on figuring out what you will love. Try not to get sucked knee deep into something you are going to hate. :thumbsup:

You have work to do... The clock is tickin!

[AG_Styles]

Originally posted by rage2

Judging by the huge number of CPSC retards I've seen, that piece of paper won't get you through any doors. :rofl:

Correction. The door to Superstore is always open!

Sorry Rage, but for me that piece of paper did open the door to my current job which is what i've been wanting to do since i was 10. In fact i probably wont be able to shoot past the position of tester without the degree or much less hold a senior/director position in this industry in a relatively quick amount of time without it.

I agree there are a large amount of other cpsc retards who shouldn't be there. But for the rest of us, it's unfair to point out that the degree is useless at all.

There were a bunch of courses that were taught during the program that have benefitted me during my tenure at my current company. So imo, it's about how the student in the program uses the course content to his benefit.

If everyone keeps the mentality that school courses are useless, then they'll just scoff at all the course material even if they can be applied to work situations.

[magicalpoop]

well my friend is in comp sci and he landed a job at pengrowth making 70$k/year on an entry level in his internship.

Not gonna lie, everyones been in your shoes before.
You're just making justifications on not to go to school.
Just shut up and go do what you want. Because if you do not have the motivation or will, how could you possibly succeed in it?

[torob]

Originally posted by magicalpoop
well my friend is in comp sci and he landed a job at pengrowth making 70$k/year on an entry level in his internship.

Not gonna lie, everyones been in your shoes before.
You're just making justifications on not to go to school.
Just shut up and go do what you want. Because if you do not have the motivation or will, how could you possibly succeed in it?

You misunderstood the thread, I'm just trying to get information about every part.. instead of just blindly going into something...

My plans aren't what is in the thread.. I'm just trying to get feedback / opinions to do the best thing possible

The way i see it, the more info the better --

[CrazyDyde12]

from my experience i think you should take a 2 yr course at sait in IT, and see how you like it
2 years isnt long and you learn quite abit, if you like it, you can take another 2 years and complete your degree, if not you can get a decent job with your diploma

so far its been awesome for me, i would not want to have missed college, it was such an experience