Military

[Spoons]

I'm not putting this into careers section because it really has nothing to do with a job. I'm more or less asking for opinions. Plus no one really reads careers so I won't get a lot of advice.

Since I was a kid, the army has always fascinated me. My father being a war buff, and spending countless hours watching the history channel with him sort of led me down this path. I have been considering joining the army for a few years now, and recently getting serious to do so (working out, trying to quit smoking, etc.) but I've ran into some obstacles.

First I will state my reasons why I want to. To be honest I want to help people, and right wrongs. I have a very selective view on society these days and see a lot wrong with it. I want to try to correct that. I could go downtown with my sign protesting pretending like I give a fuck or actually put words into actions. Someone said it the best, and "Preserve the right for others to not give a fuck."

Now my obstacles. First my mother is obviously against it. She is agreeable with me joining, but I can tell she doesn't like it. I want to go infantry, only thing that really fascinates me. There is the second obstacle. I feel that shows I've watched (let it be on History, Band of Brothers, Generation Kill, The Pacific, etc.) has led me subconsciously to think its cool (by the term cool I mean fun, enjoyable, etc.). I'm led that way because I think I really do, going on patrols, finding shit, adventuring, I think it is really cool (yes, you may have to kill someone, but that I do not find cool). I'm coming to the point where I feel that is more my reason to join than anything else.

So now I'm looking for some points of views. Do you feel that my fascination in the infantry has led my decision making ability on this astray, and that in fact they are not good reasons to join the army? As well, I feel that if joining the military I will be fighting a war with little to no cause and leave myself wondering who the fuck am I helping here. We are supposed to be moving out of Afghanistan, yet with Obama wanting out of Iraq, I feel we will be there longer. I feel training is what keeps you alive, but with IED's there is nothing that helps you with that.

Secondly my mother really dropped the bomb on keeping me out with a job. My step father is willing to hire me with a rather successful oil company in sales after successfully completing 2 years P&E tech at SAIT. I can get into this as I can work from both home and the office, freedom, etc.

So yeah, help? I guess I'm choosing between two extremes, blue collar and white collar. This job offer is really nice, I mean I am looking at a career, good pay, etc. While the army could be just a 4 year thing (but also leave me with one of the best things you can put on a resume).

As you can tell from my post I am confused, so I apologize if it is a bunch of scattered thoughts. I can't really ask my mom or dad because they are both biased either way.

[bjstare]

I did engineering work at CFB Esquimalt on my last co-op, and talked a lot with Army, Air Force, and Navy guys. I could personally never go into the forces. It's great for people who don't like to think for themselves, so if that's you... then go for it. Also, its very tough to say if you should go into it to 'right wrongs'. One of the guys I worked with came back from Afghanistan a few weeks before I met him, and he had some very interesting things to say about it...not sure if righting wrongs is a good enough reason to go into the forces.

If I were you, I would join up as a reserve. You still make money, are only committed to complete basic training, and after that its like a part time job. Also, if they wanna send you off to fight, you can say no (however chances are they won't ask you, your chances of going over there in reg. force are still pretty low). Plus, after you join the reserves you get a great feel for what the reg. force will be like without making the full commitment. You seem like you have no idea whats goin on, and the reserves seems like a great place to get your feet wet with minimal risk. My .02

[scat330]

Working for a military contractor and I can tell you ex military people are a pain to work with, converse with, and relate to. They have a stuck up mentality that they are the "shit" for working for the country and it's suffocating. They are all weird too.

Everyone at my work who is exmilitary (90%), it just makes sense why they joined. They had no other purpose in life and needed something to do. It's where the misfits go... Perhaps I'm jaded, but I can't stand these people - nor can my "civilian" coworkers. It's a common thought amongst us, and when someone explain that it's a place for misfits it all made sense to me.

I'm not sure man - from my experience, the cool stuff is the jets and what not but I would never, ever, join.

(I'm not insulting military people, because "they fight for our country", its the people it attracts to the job and what happens to them afterward)

[revelations]

If you really want to help people, and think for yourself....become a cop....as much as most people would think otherwise.

The downside is that you just cant shoot people because they are annoying where as if youre engaged with the Taliban with the armed forces, your orders are probably shoot to kill.

After 3-5 years on the streets as a cop, you will be offered a multitude of advancement possibilities if youre in a big city like Calgary.

[jefferson2]

You cannot possibly come close to getting an understanding of what war is really like from television shows. Newsflash: these are made to make a profit. What gets people watching? Sensationalism.

Anyway, to respond to your post...

From what I hear infantry is full.

If you're serious about it, educate yourself before you decide to take this step.

A buddy of mine joined the reserves, decided it wasn't for him, and spent a good 3 months just trying to get out of the army. They don't make it easy.

Also, on the CF website, they have videos of what you'll expect to be doing in basic training. Looks super cool, but going to Afghanistan/Iraq/MiddleEast is a fucking nightmare.

[jefferson2]

I have 3 friends who just came back from a tour, and NOT 1 of them sleeps at night. One of them showed me his medicine cabinet, its like the candy section of a superstore. Sleep aids, antidepressants, pain killers, 3 shelves full. They all have PTSD, and I don't want to tell their stories because its kind of personal for them.

We started this war out by sending thousands of marines into a country where none of them could speak a word of Pashto, and told them to hunt for a small group of educated "terrorists".

They didn't have a clue what they were doing, and now this small group has grown exponentially, is regarded as winning in Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq, and has a FUCKING SPOKESPERSON THAT IS QUOTED IN OUR NEWSPAPERS.

From hiding in the hills to offensive raids on "secure" NATO compounds last week, sounds like we're winning for sure.

You give middle class disillusioned males killing power like you see in the AC-130, and they'll kill more innocents than "baddies" 9 times out of 10.

Watch this video to see pure incompetence. "Engage" "Wait, do NOT ENGAGE" Just embarrassing.

i-gMMQTt5-c

There's another video that was leaked recently by wikileaks showing a gunship tearing up a group of people trying to put wounded into a van.

I'll see if I can find it.

Enraged family members join up with Al-Qaeda to get revenge for their family, and now you have the situation we have today, with fully equipped, highly organized Al-Qaeda.

There's sniper teams, IED teams, and thousands upon thousands who are willing to suicide because their family was killed "accidentally" and they have nothing to live for now. All it takes is for them to put on a vest, take the ~$10 that Al-Qaeda gives them as renumeration, and push the button when they're close to US forces.

They can even afford to "edit" their videos.

NSFW

Video 1 - Iraqi snipers firing on coalition forces with what appears to be an SVD rifle - horrific accuracy (filmed by Al-Qaeda, originally shown on Al-Jazeera)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=631_1244568530

Video 2 - A troop of mine sweeper vehicles, head back into the compound, and a remote charge destroys the second last sweeper.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3a8_1252880724

If you want to see the real effects of this war, liveleak is the halfway point where you get both US based and Middle East based footage, and not sensationalist bullshit.

It's called "War Porn" if you want to see more of it, if you're considering it seriously type that into google, you might as well, because no one is going to censor what you see when your buddy is cut in half by an explosive.

Also, people say that MRUV's protect you from getting injured, but there was an article in the Sun or Herald a couple months ago of a guy who lost both his legs while standing on the gunstep. Because the blast lifted the vehicle, the protruding edge went straight into his shins just below the kneecap. He ended up losing both legs. They took the step out of every vehicle after this happened, but it took a guy becoming legless for it to happen.

You're lucky enough to live in a 1st world country where shit like this isn't an everyday occurrence, take advantage of it.

[GREENBOY]

If you're cool with killing other humans who are just like you and people you know (and maybe a few civilians, kids etc on the side) and to die on the basis of decisions made by douchebag politicians, then it might be for you. I wouldn't do either, but - unless I'm mistaken - this is what being in the forces boils down to one way or another.

[kaput]

.

[jutes]

The smart people join the military to get a career out of the ordinary and a pension when they retire at 45. Joining the infantry is the stupidest decision you can make in your life, you are basically a robot trained to kill. So you decide to join for a few years and then what. Having "Military Combat Skills" on a resume is not a good as you'd think.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by jutes
The smart people join the military to get a career out of the ordinary and a pension when they retire at 45. Joining the infantry is the stupidest decision you can make in your life, you are basically a robot trained to kill. So you decide to join for a few years and then what. Having "Military Combat Skills" on a resume is not a good as you'd think.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. Being in the infantry, you are useless once your out of the forces. I know this because I talked to many people who were about to leave the infantry or had family members that left, and they have nowhere to go after that. Absolutely no experience that will get them a job in the civvy world. If you want to be a part of the forces, and specialize in something (for example comm tech), when you retire you can go work for Shaw and do installs and such. This does actually happen, and they guys that do it make good money, they get a full pension + full income at 45.

[sheik_yerbouti]

Originally posted by jefferson2

From what I hear infantry is full.


Yep, it's pretty damn hard to get into the infantry. From what I understand they even widdle away the infantry group they start with, sending people into other support divisions. I would love to be in the forces, but they seem keen on rejecting me due to hearing loss.

[broken_legs]

I wonder why there can't be a military that is purely for the protection of Canada.

ie - a Fighting force that never leaves Canada and its only mission is to protect Canadian soil from foreign attack.

Why to politicians get to decide what is 'OK' for our military to do?


I think a lot more people would be comfortable joining the military if they knew they were only going to be defending their homeland, rather than waging wars overseas that have nothing to do with them or Canada.

[911fever]

ah you guys are a bunch of whiners. War isn't pretty. Fighting an unpopular war isn't easy. But if you are passionate about serving for Canada and supporting your country, go for it.

[jutes]

Originally posted by broken_legs
I wonder why there can't be a military that is purely for the protection of Canada.

ie - a Fighting force that never leaves Canada and its only mission is to protect Canadian soil from foreign attack.

Why to politicians get to decide what is 'OK' for our military to do?


I think a lot more people would be comfortable joining the military if they knew they were only going to be defending their homeland, rather than waging wars overseas that have nothing to do with them or Canada.

Who is going to attack us? The only way anyone would wage a war with Canada is by air or ballistic missiles. We are surrounded by miles and miles of water, it would be really hard for an invading force to beach on our shores without someone noticing. Only thing that can hit us is terrorism from within the country and that is the job for the police to handle.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by Spoons
I'm not putting this into careers section because it really has nothing to do with a job. I'm more or less asking for opinions. Plus no one really reads careers so I won't get a lot of advice.

Since I was a kid, the army has always fascinated me. My father being a war buff, and spending countless hours watching the history channel with him sort of led me down this path. I have been considering joining the army for a few years now, and recently getting serious to do so (working out, trying to quit smoking, etc.) but I've ran into some obstacles.

First I will state my reasons why I want to. To be honest I want to help people, and right wrongs.

Militaries don't help people, they kill people.

They just tell us they help people so we keep supporting them. For every picture of a child whose life has improved, there's another 50 who have been orphaned that never get mentioned.

If you just want to play GI-Joe, and grease some wogs in a real-life FPS, be realistic about that.... but if you want to help people, there's many other professions that will allow you to do so without getting blood on your hands.

[mx73someday]

Originally posted by 911fever
ah you guys are a bunch of whiners. War isn't pretty. Fighting an unpopular war isn't easy. But if you are passionate about serving for Canada and supporting your country, go for it.

It's not serving unless it was requested. The army serves the people calling themselves government, not the people who live in Canada.

It also doesn't support the country when it burdens the people with its overwhelming costs. Wars and military empire cripple economies and collapse political systems.

Joining the military is a statement that you can't earn money yourself, that you have to force others to pay for your job. It's parasitical to society. You're also enslaving the unborn because government has never managed to stay out of debt.

[Hamann]

Originally posted by mx73someday


It's not serving unless it was requested. The army serves the people calling themselves government, not the people who live in Canada.

It also doesn't support the country when it burdens the people with its overwhelming costs. Wars and military empire cripple economies and collapse political systems.

Joining the military is a statement that you can't earn money yourself, that you have to force others to pay for your job. It's parasitical to society. You're also enslaving the unborn because government has never managed to stay out of debt.

I'm going to stay out of the rest of this debate, but you sir are a idiot. :facepalm:

[911fever]

Originally posted by mx73someday


It's not serving unless it was requested. The army serves the people calling themselves government, not the people who live in Canada.

It also doesn't support the country when it burdens the people with its overwhelming costs. Wars and military empire cripple economies and collapse political systems.

Joining the military is a statement that you can't earn money yourself, that you have to force others to pay for your job. It's parasitical to society. You're also enslaving the unborn because government has never managed to stay out of debt.

you're a retard
http://www.readthesmiths.com/articles/Images/Humor/Fail/2043-fail-camera.jpg

[adidas]

I can see this thread going 5 pages, with ppl going back and forth thinking their OPINION on war is the best.

I will try and keep it short. But when it comes down to it, do what you think is best. We cant make decisions for you. Seems like you got a career right in front of u lined up and are not a meat head(not saying anyone serving is). But you probably have more going for yourself then half the guys out there.

Think about your family and what kind of trauma they will go through if you dont end up coming back. I think war games(paintball, and crap like that) is fun, but dont think i could ever get past the fact that i might not come back if i served.

Best of luck with whatever decisions you make. Keep us updated.

[Myrrinda]

What you need to do is talk to people that have done what you want to do so that you can form an opinion based on fact not fiction.

[mx73someday]

Originally posted by Hamann


I'm going to stay out of the rest of this debate, but you sir are a idiot. :facepalm:


Originally posted by Hamann
you're a retard

Nice arguments guys, this is concrete proof that I was wrong.