Ass to Grass or 90 degree Squats?

[Little Dragon]

So had a little debate with my friends about squatting.

They kept telling me that I should only go to 90 degrees when squatting, any more and it'll hurt my knees later on.

I've always done ass to grass squats and felt they were superior. Granted I don't lift as much as if I were to do 90 degree squats but I think it would help more with growth with the larger ROM.
They do raise some good points on my knees though, that much weight with my knees extended ass to grass could tear something right?

What do you lifters think?
ATG squats good or bad?

[skandalouz_08]

I personally only do the 90 degree ones and feel like I get a great workout from them.

I think the ATG ones will eventually hurt your knees more than the 90 degree ones but I think its really just one persons opinion against anothers. Do what feels comfortable for you.

[Penguin_Racecar]

Ass to grass, because they are superior. You shouldn't be pushing with your knees when you're that low.

[Sasuke_Kensai]

I've read as long as you keep your shins vertical, that will limit the shear forces on your knee joint even with heavy weights. And with the knees tracking the toes.

[Redlined_8000]

Originally posted by Penguin_Racecar
Ass to grass, because they are superior. You shouldn't be pushing with your knees when you're that low.

ATG is NOT superior!

For lots of people including myself, body mechanics limit depth in squats, If i go lower than parallel my hips trun downwards (lower back rounding). This has injured me before in the lower back.

Squatting to parallel or even slightly above parallel is fine and IME is great.

[1-Bar]

never 90 degrees for me....knees are the weakest at this angle. Personally I drop a few degrees below 90, but if I power squat, I never reach 90.....

[krusso04]

Real men go Ass to Grass... no homo lol

[wintonyk]

I am gonna go with the NSCA. This is what I was taught when I took my trainer course as well. Slightly below 90

NSCA Front Squat (http://www.nsca-lift.org/videos/Front%20Squat/defaultfrontsquat.shtml)

Power squats of course you stop just before 90.

[lint]

One of the best and most complete resources when it comes to the squat
http://www.youtube.com/user/johnnymnemonic2

Squat depth
2eZ1HzoH0Rw

lower back rounding
Rq8CWv8UPAI

mobility
WKnpmQNhc3w

[KRyn]

What do you train for?

If you are training for Olympic Weight lifting you best be getting that ass to the floor if you ever plan to clean and jerk or snatch serious weight.

If you are power lifting or training for general fitness you are fine with going to ninety degrees or slightly below.

*shrug*

[whiskas]

Ass to grass is the best... but only if you have the flexibility to maintain proper form throughout.

A lot of people don't have much flexibility in their hips and their butt tends to "wink" down as they reach the bottom of the movement, which also causes their lower back to round out.

Don't go ATG right away, you won't have the flexibility to do it until you've been squatting consistently for several months.

I squat 3 times a week and it wasn't until close to a year of that until I felt comfortable with my form to get really low.

[eb0i]

sack to floor....

[max_boost]

Most people who squat or talk squat no diddly squat about squat but lint actually knows his squat. :rofl:

I find with high bar placement, I can squat lower. I actually prefer this over the low bar squat. I don't have great flexibility so I break parallel and up I go.

I have to start squatting again, been really lazy. I think when I stall on my bench and press, I'll go back to doing deads and squats. :rofl: I call my workout, the Bar Star or 2EFNFAST workout. :D

http://uscrossfit.com/uploads/uscrossfit/image/backsquat.jpg

[max_boost]

Check out this hottie: 135X5 :love: :love:

7IkyiekPIrg

[max_boost]

This is me 1 year ago:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
First rep was high but the others I thought was decent.

CM7lA78zn8g

[lint]

<--- knows nothing of this "squat" thing

[wintonyk]

Originally posted by max_boost
Most people who squat or talk squat no diddly squat about squat but lint actually knows his squat. :rofl:

I find with high bar placement, I can squat lower. I actually prefer this over the low bar squat. I don't have great flexibility so I break parallel and up I go.


http://uscrossfit.com/uploads/uscrossfit/image/backsquat.jpg

I find the high bar placement is more comfortable for my shoulders as well. Torn rotator cuff injury. I do find that I can lift significantly more that way. bout 80 lbs more than my front squat.

The ATG squat is like curling all the way on a bicep curl. Once you go past a certain degree you take tension off the muscle and are no longer working that muscle. Much past 90 degrees takes tension off you hammy's.

[VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN]

I find lower bar squats don't leave bruises on my lower neck and traps, a problem I found to be frustrating.

I am a 90 degree kinda guy, but I train for fitness and do quitea few reps (15+) per set

[buh_buh]

Ass to grass feels better during and after for me.
I can probably push less weight than if I went 90, but I feel like my legs get the better workout going ass to grass.

I've been trying to replace jump squats for squats every once in a while recently. Any thoughts on how low you should be going for those? I've just been doing ass to grass for these too and throwing on even less weight.

[dandia89]

i've been struggling for months to squat ass to grass and could never accomplish this. after realizing i have a really short torso, this really made me understand how hard it was to squat deeper. I'm sure some people have the same problem, and I know one person who pushes through it trying to go as deep as possible, and I know someone who just using the smith machine.

[lint]

1. bar placement
2. squat shoes

[VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN]

Originally posted by dandia89
i've been struggling for months to squat ass to grass and could never accomplish this. after realizing i have a really short torso, this really made me understand how hard it was to squat deeper. I'm sure some people have the same problem, and I know one person who pushes through it trying to go as deep as possible, and I know someone who just using the smith machine.

I've always had the short torso for squats. I even had trouble with not weighted squats for a long time.
I never realised until your post that it may be the short torso ruining my squats.

[1-Bar]

Originally posted by buh_buh
Ass to grass feels better during and after for me.
I can probably push less weight than if I went 90, but I feel like my legs get the better workout going ass to grass.

I've been trying to replace jump squats for squats every once in a while recently. Any thoughts on how low you should be going for those? I've just been doing ass to grass for these too and throwing on even less weight.

Your talking jump squat depth?? I keep it ass to grass :thumbsup: helluva burn, especially if you load and deload right away

[dandia89]

Originally posted by VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN


I've always had the short torso for squats. I even had trouble with not weighted squats for a long time.
I never realised until your post that it may be the short torso ruining my squats.
like someone above said, its all about placement. I can never find that proper placement, and even one of the strongest guys at my gym has a short torso and he has to use the smith machine for his squats

[liquidboi69]

^Depth has nothing to do with torso length or bar placement in my opinion. It is all hip flexibility and technique. Unless I'm completely missing something here.

In terms of technique,

Wider = harder to hit depth, but recruits hips more. Could be beneficial if your hips are raising faster than they are pushing forward (signs of weak hips/one not putting enough tension/recruitment on hips and putting too much on hamstrings.)

More toe angle = helps your knees track outwards (assuming you are properly pushing them outwards and not allowing them to bow in), and helps recruit glutes/hips. Harder on flexibility.

Tight hamstrings and hips = harder to hit depth

You might be able to squat to depth easier with a narrower stance with less toe angle and high bar (which some commonly mistake as the Olympic ATG style....) but that's only because this technique is 100% wrong, even for both PL and OLY style squat.

You need to squat "in between your hips" and push your knees out with enough toe angle (which is where flexibility is actually required...a proper squat.) If one just sits behind their legs and uses their hamstrings quads and lower back (common,) they are squatting wrong and with a weaker pathway. The stronger pathway is sitting between your hips, pushing your knees out, and sitting back a bit. This is harder to hit depth with, but recruits minimal back into the movement, helps recruits hips so the hips can push forward (you won't need to GM the weight) and is the optimal pathway IMO.

Not sure if anyone does this here, but it's something I see very often by ATG advocates who may squat to ATG depth, but squat 100% incorrectly using ATG depth. I just came on here to rant about those people.

[lint]

as long as your hip crease is below your patella, there is no wrong way to squat, only different ways to squat. high bar is Olympic style and calling it 100% wrong is frankly just ignorant of the different ways of squatting. talking about recruitment of this and dominant that is just lip serve to sell one method over another. i've posted an article that examined high bar, low bar and front squats and the conclusion was no significant difference in muscle recruitment between the styles.
pick one that you like and that works for you

and bar position has everything to do with hitting depth. simple body geometry. a higher bar lets you maintain a more vertical back, this keeps your hip angle bigger, ass can get lower before your lower back wants to round.

You consider this 100% wrong?
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and this?
http://socalsc.com/uploads/balboa/image/071210_pisarenko.jpg

[liquidboi69]

I didn't say high bar was wrong. I was simply saying people who were squatting behind their legs and not between them are 100% wrong. OLY and PL people who properly squat both squat between their legs and push their knees out. I was just simply noting that some people squat incorrectly to try to solve their flexibility issues, which in turn does not recruit the proper muscles. I am referring to this: sCkX5UkPdms.
Note: I said it was an incorrect OLY form. I was noting the misconception that people have about OLY form, and saying that this is not the way to do it (as I have seen it tonnes.)

In terms of high and low bar, it helps maintain a vertical back and can help get those extra few inches without rounding, but IMO this is basically ignoring the problem.

IMO the problem fundamentally was flexibility, and to not address this and to switch bar positions is basically ignoring the issue. One can be inflexible whether it be high or low bar, if it's a flexibility issue then switching bar positioning doesn't solve the problem, it just hides it.

I never said one method was better than another, relax and don't being so defensive about high bar squatting. Bar positioning is personal preference. I've squatted 50% with high bar. You missed the point.

[lint]

no one squats ATG without squatting between their legs. period. I don't even know what squatting BEHIND the legs even means.

EDIT: the douche in that video isn't doing an ATG squat or any kind of real squat.

[liquidboi69]

By squating behind the legs, i mean people who just sit back like that guy, but not recruiting their hips (ie. a bit wider stance and toe angle.) Squatting like that enables one to reach ATG easier, but is obviously the wrong way to squat. I'm just trying to say don't squat like that to reach ATG easier, as I've seen tonnes of people do that.

They don't push their knees out, and actively sit into their hips/put the tension on the hips/glutes. Yes people ATG squat without squatting between their legs. Just imagine that video, but deeper...and that is what I'm referring to.

Vs. Pat Mende's squat, notice how he has a wider stance, toe angle, and pushes his knees out. 3xFm9q1HBKY

[lint]

Originally posted by liquidboi69
I never said one method was better than another, relax and don't being so defensive about high bar squatting. Bar positioning is personal preference. I've squatted 50% with high bar. You missed the point.

I didn't miss the point, you edited your original post a number of times. The way it was originally worded you indeed made the claims that ATG was wrong, doesn't recruit the right muscles, was improper technique.

[liquidboi69]

I said squatting ATG in that method was wrong yes. I'm 100% sure I did not say ATG was wrong. I said squatting with incorrect technique to achieve ATG easier was wrong

[lint]

well this is just going around in circles. claiming to go ATG != squatting ATG. Squatting like your first vid != squatting. I'll still stand by my position that in order to reach ATG you must use a high bar placement unless you have freakish flexibility. Also note that Pat Mendes is wearing Adidas lifting shoes, so it's not simply a matter of flexibility or ignoring the problem. It's about leverage. Let's just leave it at that.

[liquidboi69]

I couldn't find an example of a squat type I was talking about that does go ATG, so that was the best I could find. So just imagine that to ATG and that's it. I don't see how that's going in circles.

And that video IS squatting for some. Obviously the rant I had wasn't directed at people who could squat properly, and towards people who squatted like that to try to achieve ATG easier.

I don't agree that IN ORDER to reach ATG that you MUST use high bar. That is only your personal opinion and preference. I've seen plenty of people go ATG with low bar.

So Cliffs...:
-I said don't squat a certain way to achieve ATG easier as it doesn't recruit proper muscles. I also say going high bar helps the problem/hides it, but doesn't fix the flexibility problem
-You got all defensive because you thought i was saying ATG and high bar was incorrect
-I said I wasn't talking about high bar squatting, but improper high bar/olympic misconceptions that i have personally seen
-You say how the hell do people squat without squatting in between their legs
-I said i've seen many people squat similar to this, and posted a video
-You say that's not even a squat
-I said that's a squat for some, which is what I'm ranting about
-You say you don't care, that video isn't even to ATG anyway, and that high bar is a MUST to hit proper ATG depth
-I disagree as I have seen many people squat ATG low bar, and this was the closest to ATG I could find for what I was talking about

I don't think ATG low bar takes freakish flexibility. Just some flexibility work everyday. Bar positioning and shoes are SECONDARY...as I said and I will say again, these do not solve the problem, they only hide it. If people were as focused on flexibility as they are with bar positioning and shoes, they probably wouldn't have a depth problem

[anschutz_92]

You guys are all wasting your time with squats. Leg press>Squats>ATG Squats. Nuf said.




:)

[lint]

post a vid of what you believe is a low bar ATG squat.

[liquidboi69]

This one's decent. Though he does have shoes on. Still shows that it's possible to squat ATG low bar.
5Mo0aviEeH4


Here's another. Kind of hard to see if it's low bar, but bar is below the top of shoulder so it looks like it is. And he's a big guy too, no flexibility issues there (besides what looks to be shoulder flexibility issues.)
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Listen Lint. Don't take this personal. If you can't get to depth, it's a flexibility issue. You can't disagree with that.

When you have a flexibility issue, you stretch. That's common knowledge. You don't try to change your leverages/the mechanics of the movement by changing bar position/adding shoes.

All the technique pointers I gave were just to ensure that people were squatting properly. And those points are universal whether it by high bar, low bar, OLY, or PL squats. You're calling me ignorant on other styles of squatting, but you're giving beyond advice solely on your preferred style for squatting ATG (ie. high bar) and preaching high bar, when you should be giving advice that will accommodate all styles (ie. gaining flexibility)

[lint]

Maybe you need to do some research and re-read my posts on the topic. I squat high bar, low bar and front. I've said it time and again, pick on that you like and do it. I also dumbed it down further, a squat is a squat as long as your hip crease is below the patella and I always advocate toes out, knees out, sit down between the legs. If your knees cave in at the bottom and you've met the above requirement, it's a squat. It can be ugly, it can be a dangerous, it can be sub optimal, it can be limiting, but it's STILL A SQUAT. All other talk of quad dominant this, hip drive that, glute activation whatever is just noise. I don't preach a style. I'm pro squat. You're saying that it's wrong to go HB/ATG to achieve depth, and that you should stretch and gain flexibility and blah blah blah so that you can hit depth with a LB position. If I'm not young and spry, and no amount of stretching will give me any more range in my ankles, I should keep up the futility of trying to increase flexibility where there is none rather than simply moving the bar a little higher up my back and getting shoes because it's wrong? Who's preaching now?

And for your info, I picked up squat shoes to achieve a better rack position for front squats and cleans. Guess I just have the same flexibility problems as EVERY SINGLE Olympic lifter out there since they ALL wear shoes. I did all of my heavy squatting in chucks before that. I went back to a high bar position because the low bar was wrecking my shoulders. You can call it a crutch or a problem with flexibility or whatever. If there's no need to add that stress to my joints why would I? Guess I'm just masking another of my many problem.


You don't try to change your leverages/the mechanics of the movement by changing bar position/adding shoes.
You've got to be shitting me with that quote. Don't you train with PLs? Not only do they change the leverages/mechanics of the movement with par position, but also stresses on the knees, hips and glutes with foot placement, foot pressure. Check the first post and linked article here: http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=3012063#post3012063
Deadlifters also go barefoot or lift with slippers and round the upper back to minimize the distance the bar is pulled.

Coles notes:
- I know shit about squatting.
- Just stretch till you can't stretch no mo'

[Majestic12]

Originally posted by anschutz_92
You guys are all wasting your time with squats. Leg press&gt;Squats&gt;ATG Squats. Nuf said.




:)

i can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but I hope you are.

[YamaLube]

I apologize for this long read, but do yourself a favor and take the time to read it over before you decide on which squat to use. The bottom line is the "full squat is bad for your knee's" arguement has no basis in science or practice, but more often then not is an excuse for a lazy lifter who doesn't like to go low, or an ego bound lifter who can't stomack dropping 100lbs and doing the squat properly. This is a bunch of consilidated information I keep on hand to convince my training partners to squat, and they are always glad they start. I always had knee problems until I started doing full squats...........

Here is some coles note as it is a long read, but some really great information. There are three articles. My favorite excerpts............(incidentally, squats are a great "core" exercise)...........Shearing force and resulting strain on the pre-patella area may be the biggest problem with partial squats. Many spectacular doses of tendonitis have been produced this way, with 'squats' getting the blame." .............Inhale on descent and hold breath momentarily until you reverse direction and continue to hold until you are through the sticking point of the ascent. Then take deep breath again before next rep.(I started doing this a few weeks back, keeps everything tight, and don't have to concentrate on exhaling on the ascent)............."The full range of motion exercise known as the squat is the single most useful exercise in the weight room. The squat, when performed correctly, is not only the safest leg exercise for the knees, it produces a more stable knee than any other exercise." Enjoy!!!


90 degree leg angle (upper leg 45 degrees to the floor) is actually the most unstable knee angle, and this is a position that physical therapists will test for knee joint instability. 90 degrees is bad news, whichever way you look at it. So when you lower the weight, stop at 90 and raise, you are putting the maximum stress at the weakest leg position, and it isn't even close to parallel. People with weak knees who try this will have their knee's splay out and possible drop the weight. The proper squat technique is to work past and through this weak position, not stop at it.

You can imagine how much force is on the knee ligaments if the athlete descends with a weight and then at the most unstable point (90 degrees), reverses momentum and accelerates in the opposite direction. Couple this with the fact that everyone is capable of squatting more weight in this position than to the full squat position, and you set your body up for a big problem.
I love when someone tells me they squat to "parallel" and then I get to go to the gym and watch. I think, "My God, who taught your geometry class?" Parallel to what? I start to ask myself if there's a line on the wall going downhill at a 45 degree angle, is the floor slanted?. Are they parallel to that?
For the record, parallel really means femur parallel to the floor. Visualize your femur and see if it's parallel to the floor. The angle in your leg will be closer to 45 degrees in this position. It's amazing how many people say parallel and are nowhere near it. The difference between the femur parallel to the floor and the bottom of the thigh parallel to the floor has been about 100 pounds in my experience. That means a 400 pound full squatter is a 500 pound hamstring parallel squatter. It also means reductions in mobility and 100 pounds more compressive load on the spine. To Reach full parallel the top surface of the thigh where it meets the hip should be lower than the top of the knees.

The bottom line, although some will disagree, is that there's no evidence that a powerlifting-depth full squat is bad for the knees, but there's some evidence that what many like to describe as ATG or "ass to grass" could be harmful to the collateral ligaments or to the posterior horn of the meniscus. This is due to extreme stretching, and the propensity to "bounce" at the bottom as a method of cheating.

Going to parallel to the floor or just below parallel is the general recommendation. Fred "Dr. Squat" Hatfield writes, "You should learn how to go down into the squat position low enough. The top of your thighs should be about parallel to the floor or slightly lower in a well-executed squat. Higher than that, and you're losing some of the benefit to your quads." Some strength professionals describe the full squat as when "The anterior surface of the thigh at the hip is lower than the top of the knees." This is when you have just broken parallel.

Being unable to reach parallel or just below parallel means that yes, you probably need to work on your flexibility. Also keep in mind there is a learning curve to the exercise so it not only takes practice, it also takes a little while to gain kinesthetic sense of when you've hit the proper depth. If you have trouble getting all the way down, you may be tight in the adductors and hamstrings. You may also lack ankle flexibility. Hamstring flexibility is also important in being able to do deep squats safely without injuring the lower back. You may want to warm up with body weight squats, slowly easing yourself down deeper and deeper as you get looser. Actually doing the squat is one of the best ways to become more flexible.

In the meantime, as your flexibility gradually improves, what you can also do is experiment with stance width. Generally stance width is shoulder width, with your toes pointing slightly outward at about 30 degrees. If you lack ankle flexibility and lose your balance squatting narrow, a wider stance will help. Narrow squats are often preferred by bodybuilders, but they require very flexible joints; otherwise you must bend too far forward to maintain your center of gravity. You could also place your heels on a wedge or board, although that is a quick fix, not a long term substitute for improving your flexibility.

Full (below parallel) barbell squats are completely safe to the knees when done properly by healthy individuals. "Done properly" is the important part!

The National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA) released a position statement on this subject, called "The Squat Exercise in Athletic Conditioning."

In a nutshell, here's what it says:

--> Correctly performed squats are not only safe, but they may actually PREVENT knee injuries

--> The squat can enhance performance in many sports

--> Overtraining and fatigue related injuries do occur with squats, but the chance of getting injured is reduced by following the established principles of resistance training program design.

--> The squat is NOT detrimental to knee joint stability when performed correctly.

--> Weight training exercises, including the squat, strengthen connective tissue, including muscles, bones, ligaments and tendons.

--> There are different styles of squat performance and proper form requires the muscles to be conditioned for that form.

--> Bouncing out of the bottom may help you get through the sticking point more easily, but this may be injurious to the knee.

--> Squatting puts stress on the back, but injury potential is low if proper technique is observed.

This may come as a surprise to many people, but there is also considerable evidence that partial squats are more harmful to the knees than full squats. Strength Coach Mark Rippetoe explains:

"In the partial squat, which fails to provide a full strength for the hamstrings, most of the force against the tibia is forward, from the quadriceps and their attachment to the front of the tibia below the knee. This produces an anterior shear, a forward directed sliding force, on the knee, with the tibia being pulled forward from the patellar tendon and without a balancing pull from the opposing hamstrings. This shearing force and resulting strain on the pre-patella area may be the biggest problem with partial squats. Many spectacular doses of tendonitis have been produced this way, with 'squats' getting the blame."

Other reports of squat-induced injuries are conflicting and inconclusive. Some may be based on biased samples. Other injuries may have been caused by factors including poor technique, pre-existing injuries, pre-existing structural abnormalities, other physical activities, fatigue or overtraining.

Recommendations against squats made by orthopedic surgeons or physical therapists are often made based on their everyday dealings with injured people. As a result they tend to be extremely conservative to the point where they may inappropriately apply the same set of criteria to healthy athletes as they do to their injured patients.

The bottom line is that parallel squats and or full squats are effective and safe to those without pre-existing injury when performed properly. Flexibility is required and form is of the utmost importance. Your form must be impeccable. Many injuries are a result of poor form. Proper form includes:

Rigid, tight torso

Controlled descent;.

Inhale on descent and hold breath momentarily until you reverse direction and continue to hold until you are through the sticking point of the ascent. Then take deep breath again before next rep.

Concentrate on driving from the hips (exception being bodybuilding squats and front squats where you may concentrate on driving with the quads while maintaining a more vertical torso)

Elbows should point to the floor or just slightly back, not rearwards

Warm up fully before attempting heavy weights

Stretch lightly before squatting

Develop sufficient abdominal strength (incidentally, squats are a great "core" exercise)

Develop sufficient lower back strength

Avoid partial squats as they can be injurious to the knees and the spine/low back may not be able to handle loads that cannot be squatted to the full position.

Develop sufficient ankle, calf, quadricep, hamstring, and hip flexibility; squatting itself will help increase flexibility

Perfect your form before going heavy; begin with empty bar

Use belts to support spine, but do not become overly dependent on them; do not use knee wraps unless you have a reason to do so (previous knee injury, etc)
When deciding on variations on form, stance, etc, keep in mind individual differences in body structure and also the potential risks and benefits. Ken Kinakin put together an excellent system of analyzing exercise based on risks and benefits. In his book, Optimal Muscle Training, he points out that variations in form can increase benefits of the squat for certain purposes, but can also alter the risk of injury to the knees or lower back.

For example, Kinakin says that the power lifting squat, where the bar rests lower on the trapezius/posterior delts and the knees stay over the feet throughout the exercise, offers benefits including less stress on the knee joint and maximum leverage for power from the hips and glutes. Risk to the lower back is increased, but the risk is fairly low, while the overall benefits are high.

By contrast, the bodybuilding squat, where the knees move over the feet during the exercise will increase the stress on the quadriceps muscle, but also increase stress on the knee joints and ligaments. However, Dr. Kinakin also says that the risk is only moderate, while the benefits to the bodybuilder in terms of quadriceps hypertrophy is high.

This shows us that it's important for us to weigh the risks versus benefits of any particular exercise within a given context and adjust form or exercise selection appropriately. However, with proper form, squats are not a high risk exercise - the risks are low to moderate and the benefits very high.

Bottom line: If you have no pre-existing knee (or low back) injuries, nothing in the gym will give you a greater return for your efforts than full free weight barbell squats - both for strength and for physique. Mark Rippetoe sums it up pretty well in the book "Starting Strength."

"The full range of motion exercise known as the squat is the single most useful exercise in the weight room. The squat, when performed correctly, is not only the safest leg exercise for the knees, it produces a more stable knee than any other exercise."

[YamaLube]

Originally posted by anschutz_92
You guys are all wasting your time with squats. Leg press&gt;Squats&gt;ATG Squats. Nuf said.

:)

For some people who are not mechanically able to squat I would agree. However, to press low enough that you don't put significant shear stress on the patellar tendon you have to roll your hips, doing so transfers the bearing weight from your hips to your lower back, and in turn expose yourself to back injury, the very thing many people try to prevent by leg pressing.......

[YamaLube]

Originally posted by liquidboi69
If you can't get to depth, it's a flexibility issue.

BINGO!!