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rage2
12-14-2003, 10:19 AM
OK, so now where are the Weapons of Mass Destruction that he supposedly had? haha.

rice_eater
12-14-2003, 10:24 AM
haha...you beat me to it...FUCKIN AMERICANS!!!! they had to dramatized this shit too... like everything else they do :guns:

ZMan2k2
12-14-2003, 11:13 AM
Here's a link to the story.
They got him. (http://sympatico.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1059576135583_5?hub=TopStories)

Dj_Stylz
12-14-2003, 11:15 AM
Holly Shit!!! :eek:

accordboi_02
12-14-2003, 11:16 AM
Good job to the US, now they still need to find Osama.

:thumbsup:

aftermarket
12-14-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by accordboi_02
Good job to the US, now they still need to find Osama.

:thumbsup:

I would think that isn't too far away now. Nicely done boys. Mission accomplished! Makes most of the fighting somewhat worth it now.

DeSi
12-14-2003, 11:37 AM
damn americans

DUBBED
12-14-2003, 11:40 AM
:thumbsup:

TalonVelocity
12-14-2003, 11:49 AM
:drama:

sxtasy
12-14-2003, 11:59 AM
so what do you think will happen now?

GingeRRRBeef
12-14-2003, 12:02 PM
Wow, quite the hole that he was living in ... I wonder how the damn yankees are going to explain the WMD or if they're gonna even mention it at all ...

JAYMEZ
12-14-2003, 12:07 PM
They might still find WMD , i mean think about it ,now days they are only about 9 feet long , you could just put it in someones garden and we wouldnt be able to find it , Iraq is a huge country! im so surprised they found Saddam so fast.

Idratherbsidewayz
12-14-2003, 12:10 PM
As good as this news is, it won't stop the violence. I believe the violence will only increase because Terrorists will want revenge :banghead:. For good old Sheriff Bush this is awesome news, as he might get reelected now

max_boost
12-14-2003, 12:10 PM
HOLY SHIT

When I saw the thread title, I thought it might be a joke!!!:rofl:
That is unreal, I can't believe they actually found him

EstoMax
12-14-2003, 12:16 PM
http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3708151&p1=0

thats crazy.. he wasnt even in a big hiding place..

max

Toms-Celica
12-14-2003, 12:42 PM
Awesome. I would love for them to get Osama too!

itsalebaron
12-14-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by DeSi
damn americans

Whats that supposed to mean? Let me guess Saddams a good guy comes out now LOL ....GOOD LUCK

:thumbsup: Damn great job by the americans .. atleast thats one less to worry about... hopefully they can find Osama soon and upset DESI even more.

Redlyne_mr2
12-14-2003, 01:09 PM
Wow histrory has been made..wonder if the americans will deal with him in a responsible way

itsalebaron
12-14-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Wow histrory has been made..wonder if the americans will deal with him in a responsible way

Ya like the responsible way he tortured and raped his own people.

Redlyne_mr2
12-14-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by itsalebaron


Ya like the responsible way he tortured and raped his own people.
I know man He's still a human being and has his rights

itsalebaron
12-14-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

I know man He's still a human being and has his rights

LOL I know and I know they will not torture and rape him. I am just sick of people (eg. TOMA) saying things like "I hope more american soldiers die", BUT we better treat Saddam like a prince because he a human too. There are people that do 99% less the Saddam that are locked up for life or even put to death. I know he is a human, but he put more people through much worse then the US COULD ever do to him in a hundred years.

Zephyr
12-14-2003, 01:31 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/12/14/sprj.irq.main/index.html

wow he looks like a santa clause...

Ajay
12-14-2003, 01:41 PM
They'll take him down to Cuba to camp X-Ray....torture him for a bit...let Bush get in a couple punches and prods and then take him to the US and try him for crimes against the US.

Then he'll be locked up with Ramsey Yousef and those two will come up with some evil plan to screw the US over again and then the US will wonder "How did this happen to us?" one more time.

Weapon_R
12-14-2003, 01:42 PM
Although Toma and I share a lot of the same views towards the American Foreign policy, I think you'd have a hard time finding someone who sympathized with Saddam Hussain.

I think our arguments were more against the invasion of an entire country, the arrests of 10,000 POWs, and the murder of innocent civilians rather than the capture of Saddam Hussain. He was a brutal dictator and there are thousands of Iraqi refugees in Calgary who will each contribute a different and equally disgusting story about his rule. Thank god he's gone, he was no angel.




Originally posted by itsalebaron


LOL I know and I know they will not torture and rape him. I am just sick of people (eg. TOMA) saying things like "I hope more american soldiers die", BUT we better treat Saddam like a prince because he a human too. There are people that do 99% less the Saddam that are locked up for life or even put to death. I know he is a human, but he put more people through much worse then the US COULD ever do to him in a hundred years.

rogue
12-14-2003, 01:57 PM
he is gone. I hope the americans, british, spanish and aussies manage to get the country on it feet again and help the poor masses. Iraq has the potentiel to be one of the richest countries in the world if they have a responsible government.

Redlyne_mr2
12-14-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by rogue
he is gone. I hope the americans, british, spanish and aussies manage to get the country on it feet again and help the poor masses. Iraq has the potentiel to be one of the richest countries in the world if they have a responsible government.
Oh Iraq will have a responsible government..they'll have the US government responsible for taking all the money and ressources from the country...its now time for the UN to take over..enough of these fucking americans they have no excuse to be there anymore

Danger_Mouse
12-14-2003, 02:23 PM
On the news he looked like a f-ing hobo!!!:drama:

GingeRRRBeef
12-14-2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Ajay
They'll take him down to Cuba to camp X-Ray....torture him for a bit...let Bush get in a couple punches and prods and then take him to the US and try him for crimes against the US.

I think Bush should be punched and prodded.

GingeRRRBeef
12-14-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

Oh Iraq will have a responsible government..they'll have the US government responsible for taking all the money and ressources from the country...its now time for the UN to take over..enough of these fucking americans they have no excuse to be there anymore

Exactly, the damn american will take advantage of the situation and grab all the oil they can get their filthy little hands on.

On the other hand, if the UN has enough sense to want to take responsibility of Iraq, the US can always go "oh you want Iraq now? Where the hell were you at the beginning? Too freaking bad for you! We're gonna be even more rich now!"

403Gemini
12-14-2003, 02:59 PM
id shoot off his fingers and toes

hjr
12-14-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by max_boost
HOLY SHIT

When I saw the thread title, I thought it might be a joke!!!:rofl:
That is unreal, I can't believe they actually found him :werd: to that. It is quite unbelievable. I thought he would have left Iraq?

GingeRRRBeef
12-14-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by hjr
:werd: to that. It is quite unbelievable. I thought he would have left Iraq?

All the other countries are probably so relieved that they found Saddam in Iraq. Could you imagine what the US would say and do if they found him somewhere else? Good ol' Bushy would be like "You were harboring a known fugitive! You will pay and we would stop until we have won!"

szw
12-14-2003, 03:33 PM
U.S. military officials told NBC News that it was unlikely that the informer would be eligible for the $25 million bounty on Saddam's head because they were U.S. captives likely to face charges themselves.

ouch

Weapon_R
12-14-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Ajay
They'll take him down to Cuba to camp X-Ray....torture him for a bit...let Bush get in a couple punches and prods and then take him to the US and try him for crimes against the US.



LOL

Actually, from what i've heard from a lot of former Iraqi soldiers, Saddam is one tough motherfukker! Word is that his physical strength was incredible and he had been known to take out 3 men at once while he was a soldier himself. Just an interesting fact.

/////AMG
12-14-2003, 04:01 PM
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/031214/031214_saddamcaptured_vmed9a.h2.jpg

I wanna know if someone tipped off the US Soliders, cause he or she is going to be RICH RICH!!

I heard they were gonna take him to a world court thingy maybe. meh:dunno:

Weapon_R
12-14-2003, 04:03 PM
If I were a soldier with the division that caught him, i'd be extremely outspoken right now. Think of all the interviews, books, movies and such that would come out, and the money that people are going to pay to get these stories (similar to the Lynch ordeal).

5abi
12-14-2003, 04:10 PM
I WANT TO CONGRATULATE THE KURDS OUT THERE THIS IS A GREAT DAY FOR THEM :d

Ajay
12-14-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Silver_SpecV


I think Bush should be punched and prodded.

I couldn't agree with you more....sad thing is though this capture of Saddam Hussein is gonna boost GW's approval rating alot higher than what it's currently been sitting at the last couple of months. He's nothing BUT a cowboy and I really weep for American foreign policy if he gets re-elected. Hopefully the occupation....err.....liberation of Iraq occurs smoothly though.



Originally posted by Weapon_R


LOL

Actually, from what i've heard from a lot of former Iraqi soldiers, Saddam is one tough motherfukker! Word is that his physical strength was incredible and he had been known to take out 3 men at once while he was a soldier himself. Just an interesting fact.

I wouldn't doubt it if he's a tough motherfucker but if he's surrounded by a bunch of US soldiers with M16's in a room with no windows....I don't think odds would be on his side.

buh_buh
12-14-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

Oh Iraq will have a responsible government..they'll have the US government responsible for taking all the money and ressources from the country...its now time for the UN to take over..enough of these fucking americans they have no excuse to be there anymore
:werd:


U.S. military officials told NBC News that it was unlikely that the informer would be eligible for the $25 million bounty on Saddam's head because they were U.S. captives likely to face charges themselves.
And the jacking begins.....

Fiery_Ramen
12-14-2003, 04:19 PM
guys, i had some person come to our school and tlak about politics and the un the other day, and he mentioned that bush is losing his votes, because more soldiers are dieing and no progress is coming. He mentioned that maybe something will have to happen to the US for bush to win his elections(he mentioned things severe such as 9-11, or maybe suicidal bombers in newyork or somehting) and coincidentially, few days after he said this, saddamn is captured.
He had many body doubles, isnt it possible that hte american government just paid one of his body doubles do act like as if he was, and take him to a CIA dna testing place, and just said that DNA concluded positive? According to CNN, he didnt put up a fight at all... Perhpas he was just exhausted and didnt want to bother, but what if he was paid to act as if he was Saddam and let the soldiers take him (to eventually paid loads of money in some unknonw island)... just my thgouths, i dun know too much about the outside information (as in why this might not be possible), but i just had that come into my head as i read this thread,....

fast_cars
12-14-2003, 04:23 PM
:drama:
its all :bullshit:

Ajay
12-14-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Fiery_Ramen
guys, i had some person come to our school and tlak about politics and the un the other day, and he mentioned that bush is losing his votes, because more soldiers are dieing and no progress is coming. He mentioned that maybe something will have to happen to the US for bush to win his elections(he mentioned things severe such as 9-11, or maybe suicidal bombers in newyork or somehting) and coincidentially, few days after he said this, saddamn is captured.
He had many body doubles, isnt it possible that hte american government just paid one of his body doubles do act like as if he was, and take him to a CIA dna testing place, and just said that DNA concluded positive? According to CNN, he didnt put up a fight at all... Perhpas he was just exhausted and didnt want to bother, but what if he was paid to act as if he was Saddam and let the soldiers take him (to eventually paid loads of money in some unknonw island)... just my thgouths, i dun know too much about the outside information (as in why this might not be possible), but i just had that come into my head as i read this thread,....

I dunno man...as much as I'm sure the US is full of conspriacies I doubt they would pull something like this. He did have plenty of body doubles but his body doubles were just that....body doubles. In one of my Poli Sci classes we watched a video on Saddam Hussein and none of his gazillion body doubles actually look like him...they're just built like him.

I think it was him that was caught and why didn't he put up a fight? The dude was in a 6 foot hole barely big enough to lie down in for who know's how long. If I was him I wouldn't have put up a fight either. They said he had two AK47's and a side arm by his side when they found him but he didn't bother to fight back....if you were Saddam Hussein and knew you were cornered with no place to go would you fire back and kill US soldiers only to know you'de be getting your ass killed with a needle or electric chair if they brought you back to the US....probably not.

Z_Fan
12-14-2003, 04:39 PM
Hooray for capturing Saddam.

That's good news.

Now the reality will set in that Saddam isn't the problem in Iraq. I think everyone knew that by now Saddam was too far removed to be able to organize anything in the way of attacks...

The suicide bombs, the car bombs, the rocket and mortar attacks will continue in Iraq. More US and coalition lives will be lost. Don't kid yourself...

As for it all being a rouse. Not likely. They did DNA tests with this 'person', before they announced it was in fact him. They'd have to be very careful with this kind of shit...

Now won't it be funny if Saddam, in front of a world court or some form of international tribunal can credibly pass all forms of lie detection with respect to denying the Iraqi WMD program!!!!! That's gonna be funny shit when that happens...but it will be too late. Bush will already have been re-elected by the time that happens...

But either way, it's good that he is caught. It's nice to see he's just another human being, looking rather old, tired and probably very sick of playing hide and seek.

The real sad thing is he has brainwashed so many people. Including his sons, which are now dead because of Saddam and his brainwashing. His kids were simply insane, and Saddam isn't...

What are they gonna do with this guy?

:whocares:

ninjak84
12-14-2003, 04:49 PM
Surprising news!
My homepage is www.cnn.com , and I couldn't believe when I read the headline.

For anyone wondering what will happen, he'll probably be tried in the exact same way as Slobodan Milosevic.
Well that's what I'd assume anyway.... ?

SinisterProbeGt
12-14-2003, 04:53 PM
here's a little video
http://g.msn.com/0VD0/00/00?m=n_saddam_exam_031214&csid=Msnbc

maximus
12-14-2003, 05:09 PM
Finally......Bush saved us from Saddam. But whos gonna save us from Bush???

Weapon_R
12-14-2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by maximus
Finally......Bush saved us from Saddam. But whos gonna save us from Bush???

And what a threat Saddam posed! I've yet to hear a single well formulated argument on the threat that Saddam posed from anyone...

itsalebaron
12-14-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Weapon_R


And what a threat Saddam posed! I've yet to hear a single well formulated argument on the threat that Saddam posed from anyone...

Ya just like Charles Manson didn't pose a threat to anyone either right? Come on why can't people just realize he was a horrible person who cares how he is going to get delt with as long as he does.

Weapon_R
12-14-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by itsalebaron


Ya just like Charles Manson didn't pose a threat to anyone either right? Come on why can't people just realize he was a horrible person who cares how he is going to get delt with as long as he does.

I'll wait for your argument as to why Saddam posed a threat to us before I respond.

itsalebaron
12-14-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Weapon_R


I'll wait for your argument as to why Saddam posed a threat to us before I respond.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Weapon_R


And what a threat Saddam posed! I've yet to hear a single well formulated argument on the threat that Saddam posed from anyone... [/QUOTE]

You never said a threat to us, is a threat to his own people not enough?. But in response why shouldn't a killer be delt with? If someone in Toronto kills someone but doesnt pose any threat to you should they not be punished? As I said before I did not totally agree with how the US has gone about this. But no matter how you look at Saddam, he deserves whats coming to him, I don't really care who gives it.

Weapon_R
12-14-2003, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by itsalebaron


You never said a threat to us, is a threat to his own people not enough?. But in response why shouldn't a killer be delt with? If someone in Toronto kills someone but doesnt pose any threat to you should they not be punished? As I said before I did not totally agree with how the US has gone about this. But no matter how you look at Saddam, he deserves whats coming to him, I don't really care who gives it.

So now he's not a threat. Interesting. Explain your rationale for supporting the invasion of Iraq to "liberate" the Iraqi people, and yet no similar advocacy for the invasion of China and North Korea, both of which have murdered and injured citizens that make the Iraqi regime look like peanuts.

itsalebaron
12-14-2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Weapon_R


So now he's not a threat. Interesting. Explain your rationale for supporting the invasion of Iraq to "liberate" the Iraqi people, and yet no similar advocacy for the invasion of China and North Korea, both of which have murdered and injured citizens that make the Iraqi regime look like peanuts.



Originally posted by itsalebaron


QUOTE]Originally posted by Weapon_R


And what a threat Saddam posed! I've yet to hear a single well formulated argument on the threat that Saddam posed from anyone...

You never said a threat to us, is a threat to his own people not enough?. But in response why shouldn't a killer be delt with? If someone in Toronto kills someone but doesnt pose any threat to you should they not be punished? As I said before I did not totally agree with how the US has gone about this. But no matter how you look at Saddam, he deserves whats coming to him, I don't really care who gives it. [/QUOTE]





If you read again I said I DO NOT totally agree with the US invasion. I am only arguing Saddam needs to be delt with much like you stated in your first post in this thread.

Put any person in front of me that has done horrible things to other human beings and I will have the same answer, they deserve whats comign to them ..

Weapon_R
12-14-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by itsalebaron

If you read again I said I DO NOT totally agree with the US invasion. I am only arguing Saddam needs to be delt with much like you stated in your first post in this thread.

Fair enough. But I still get the sence that you believe that the U.S. was right in moving into Iraq to capture this guy. Do you agree that it was their place to do so? And if so, why bypass the United Nations in doing so? Don't you wonder what really is going on over there? Do you really think that they moved in, spent ~80 billion dollars, because they care about the Iraqi people?

itsalebaron
12-14-2003, 05:56 PM
HMMMM I do not think the US was 100% right in invading Iraq. I DO wish that more countries would join forces to eliminate these people which we all do know are HORRIBLE. I also don't believe the total goal of the invasion of Iraq was the oil, though I do know it must have some part to do with it.

But in all honesty when I ask myself... If I lived in a country that was run like Iraq, where women have been treated worse then POW's for hundreds of years, and men not that much better, under a man that allowed his own sons to rape kill torture and I am sure he did it himself as well, I would welcome the US presence, and atleast have some hope that they will in the end do even 50% better and I could live in a country which is free.

Everyone is talking about the US killing innocent people. The car bombers and radicals over there fighting the US don't care about killing civilians, so why should the US. I believe the US DOES care about the innocent people. My brother in law is over there right now in the US army, and I know he would rather be home and our family would much rather that as well. But I also know he does care about what happens to the Iraqi people, and he and his troops are willing to fight FOR Iraq. Whether Bush will choose to make the right decsions or not, is not up to them.

rice_eater
12-14-2003, 08:44 PM
i will fuckin laugh my ass off if it's one of his doubles...i mean the fuckin guy has so many doubles to begin with, and you'd think that he would have planted them all over the country :dunno: i don't know...i really wish they could pull that off! Just to fuck the US :D

-250-
12-14-2003, 09:00 PM
What about the good Saddam had done for his people?

1) Creation of a sanitary water system.
2) Equal rights for women movement.
3) Promotion of work for his people.
4) Protection from other countries (for the most part).



The whole terrorism thing is a very bad cover-up for taking down anti-American prospescts. No one bought it, not even the american regime.

If you break it down from the perspective of the US, his gouvernment is part of a terrorism act. Isnt terrorism defined as significant un-prevoked action? (attacks on Afganistan, and Iraq)

In response to 9/11 I was not happy to see it happen; although I was satisfyed with the message it gave the us. Taking its arrogance, and false sence of security away form them.

The war was based on racism, and the need to be the best. Partially becasue they wanted to appeal to the american public, so that they could settle there score with the middle east for having robed them of there safety.

I hope bush gets taken down by each and every other 3rd world country. (He deserves to burn in hell IMO).

Bush only provides help for his people, other nations can suck a cock if they dont comply (Us mentality) EX: France, Germany, Canada.

I really hope that the US gouvernment wakes up and realises, that if tehy dont stop acting like they are king, they will be brought to there knees, and slaugtered.

Judging by the quantity of suicide bombers, I am sure several nations, would sacrifice their lives' for bringing down the biggest terrorist nation in history.

FiveFreshFish
12-14-2003, 09:30 PM
http://www.eyeontheleft.com/eyeblog/images/saddamprisonlife.jpg

max_boost
12-14-2003, 09:38 PM
Ok WeaponR, it's all about the oil. We all know it:devil:

accordboi_02
12-14-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by -250-
What about the good Saddam had done for his people?

1) Creation of a sanitary water system.
2) Equal rights for women movement.
3) Promotion of work for his people.
4) Protection from other countries (for the most part).


Go tell that to the Kurds in Iraq... oh wait, they were all SLAUGHTERED by Saddam.

Saddam should have been deposed after the first Gulf War, but it didn't happen, now it has. I'm glad the US got him.

And you're faulting Bush for only helping his people? Ever wonder why France didn't support the war?? I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact they had contracts in place with Iraq for their oil...

Last I checked, leaders of Democratic countries are elected to help their people, not help other nations that criticize them and shun them...

FiveFreshFish
12-14-2003, 11:27 PM
Chronology (http://www.npr.org/news/specials/iraq2003/saddam_capture.031214.html) of his capture.

fast_cars
12-14-2003, 11:49 PM
like its all good and stuff that Sadam got captured.
but as Americans dramatize all the shit all the freakin time.
when they were throwing bombs and shit over there, they were saying that Sadam as all those WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION :bullshit:
now i say where are those, after the capture of Sadam they should find those as he never used them before.
hhaha
its all stories made up by Bush and America just to dramatize more shit and justify some of there foolish moves.!!!

Primer_Drift
12-15-2003, 12:07 AM
Man he looks like crap. If I didn't know better I'd almost feel sorry for the guy.. but I know hes a douchebag.
As for the WMD's I think the fear of him making them was enough for most people, and despite it being wrong in the initial world view, it should make the world a safer place. I doubt you will see a backlash from this for a good long time (IE Osama and his buddies are products of the cold war, cia training and all), but I think it will come eventually.

tegdream
12-15-2003, 02:59 AM
Saddam Hussein??

Why not call him SoDamn Insane?????


meh this thread needed some humour...but ohh lala they got Saddam, in the real aspect i really think that changes absolutely nothing other then the false sense of security people get from his capture. i mean u dont think Saddam has anyone who believed i his regime? damn right there were people, and this people are porbaly still alive and well in Iraq and plan to continue what Saddam did and they also probaably all have access to these "WMD's", honestly, what really would have happened if they hadn't got him? he would still think the US is after him, and he would still be in hiding, where he is relatively harmless to people, he might as well as have been in a jail cell since thats pretty much what it was, all that changes now is that he can be in a US jail cell and boost the ego of Bush and all of those other American "im lookin out for the well-treatment of Iraqis" assholes who just want the damn oil anyways....meh i could go on for pages but tthats really enough!!

:drama:

4wheeldrift
12-15-2003, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by Weapon_R


Fair enough. But I still get the sence that you believe that the U.S. was right in moving into Iraq to capture this guy. Do you agree that it was their place to do so? And if so, why bypass the United Nations in doing so? Don't you wonder what really is going on over there? Do you really think that they moved in, spent ~80 billion dollars, because they care about the Iraqi people? I doubt they give a damn about the Iraqi people, but they could have got a LOT of oil from elsewhere for 80 billion dollars (and counting). It isn't just about oil. The US is hoping that if they can set up a democratic government in iraq that is non-secular, it will force a lot of the other arab nations in the area to follow suit or face massive backlash from their own citizens when they see how free the iraqi people are. Read some of the interviews that were done with Wolfowitz before they started the war. Iraq was a convenient target, because it had a small, generally poorly trained army and a lot of other fringe benefits (ie oil and "terrorists" = convenient excuse).

They could have tried to take on North Korea, but you never can tell how the chinese will react unfortunately. The Chinese aren't wild about having a country that claims to have nuclear weapons and doesn't seem like they are terribly afraid to use them right next door, but if they feel they are being threatened they might just attack back in support of North Korea and that would be VERY ugly.

rice_eater
12-15-2003, 12:33 PM
it pisses me off how at the beggining of the war Canada, France, Germany and all the other countries opposing the war, declared the war illegal and therefor recognized Sadam as a legitimate leader. Now they want to help in his trial and have all these suggestions to give.

My point is: If the war was illegal and Sadam was the legitimate leader, what are you gonna try him for? Fuckin hipocrites

sputnik
12-15-2003, 12:45 PM
http://www.vindibudd.com/graphics/pwn3d.gif

ZorroAMG
12-15-2003, 01:14 PM
Americans doing things for others without compensation?? Yeah, and I just bought an Enzo....

Saddam IS a fucker though and deserves to die, as do any killers...

What's with the orange and white cab they found? Was he planning to move to the US and become a cab driver?

Oh and a democracy implemented by another country....is that an oxymoron?

As if capturing Sodumb and Bin Smokin' will eliminate terrorism at all...it will most likely escalate....ignorance is bliss huh George....

dj_honda
12-15-2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by accordboi_02
Good job to the US, now they still need to find Osama.

:thumbsup:

osama is most likely dead and the US probably already knows this. the reason it probably wasn't let out is because bush had more support going in to the war in iraq against "terror".

this war is purely economical for the us. the economy was struggling, and as proven many times in the past with various countries, one way to solve the problem is to go to war, to generate industry etc. and it worked. not to mention the oil.

the US won't let the UN touch anything in Iraq until the US has secured all they want from it...once again just like in the past.

personally i wanted saddam to be caught but only after bush lost the election. that wont be happening now.....

Toma
12-15-2003, 10:45 PM
I cannot belive they got him alive. YOu would think they would have killed him and said "he was resisting" ;)

This close to elections, not finding him would have been the end for Bush.... makes you wonder if they offered Saddam a bribe to turn himself in so that Bush could look like a hero and get re-elected.

Now, I think they are screwed. Trying him for his crimes will only stain America further as old ties (ie from the Kurdish killings) with America will be exposed adn highlighted.

itsalebaron
12-15-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Toma
I hope LOTS more American soldiers die. LOTS.


Originally posted by Toma
Die american soldier scum, die.... :D

Wow your smart the soldiers have no say in WHY they are there, I can understand flaming BUSH but those comments are uncalled for. ... and YES I have family over there right now(SOLDIERS) and they would much rather be home sitting on their asses like you....

I hope you family dies too!!!

Toma
12-15-2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by itsalebaron



I hope you family dies too!!!

Your soldiers have killed and tortured members of my family already dirtball.... remeber that other little illegal invasion... YUGOSLAVIA.

But hey, I guess Nazi soldiers, SS, and concentration camp guards were also only following orders.

I guess that why they chose the stupidest members of society to be in the military. No brains of their own, so they will do whatever they are told for almost no money.

You are damn right I hope they die.....less chance of them passing on the retard genes. ;)

itsalebaron
12-15-2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by Toma


Your soldiers have killed and tortured members of my family already dirtball.... remeber that other little illegal invasion... YUGOSLAVIA.

But hey, I guess Nazi soldiers, SS, and concentration camp guards were also only following orders.

I guess that why they chose the stupidest members of society to be in the military. No brains of their own, so they will do whatever they are told for almost no money.

You are damn right I hope they die.....less chance of them passing on the retard genes. ;)

First of all they are MY soldiers? I am a Canadian. Because I have family that I care about in the US Military that makes me a bad person? You have to resort to name calling? very mature for a business owner :thumbsup: I will be sure to recommend your shop to anyone.

Since when are the stupidest members of society CHOSEN to be in the military. Put them up against someone as ignorant as yourself and I am sure the majority would blow you away. Some of the greatest minds oon earth are in military organizations.

And I am with you on the last part... like i said I hope they kill your family first ... less chance of them passing on MORE retard genes.

And this will be my last post in this thread no sense beating a dead horse. It is an important subject to myself to get my family home safely and I don't want to take this therad off track any further ..

Toma
12-15-2003, 11:12 PM
hahahaha....like I give a shit about tuning your POS (if you even have a POS).

I dyno for fun, not money. I actually prefer not to have any retarded customers. :poosie:

Z_Fan
12-15-2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by Toma
[America killed 500,000+ Iraqi children in the last 10 years, tens of thousand of civilians.... they are a far worse murderer then Saddam ever was....
[/B]

I just wanted to point one thing out here...I like what you are saying (because it is often overlooked), but as much as I think the Americans aren't always right in what they do (and have done)...with respect to the folks who've been killed in since the Gulf War ended...it'd be important to point out the following...

The numbers are much higher than what you've got here. It was estimated that in the first decade, in excess of 1.4 million Iraqi lives were lost. I'll see if I can't find some actual documentation on this number, but you are totally correct, it's massive!!!

Far worse than Saddam - that is absolute fact.

However, the fact that we are Canadian, and Canada participates with the rest of the United Nations to impose sanctions on Iraq...as a Canadian you too have direct responsibility for these lost lives. You could say that the United Nations is the single largest murderer of Iraqi civilians in World History. That is FACT!!!!

However, it is always blamed on Saddam for lack of compliance with the UN resolutions. But as we know now, even when his country WAS complying - the sanctions remained...and even after years of fruitless weapons searches, when the Iraqis were complying, UN doesn't lift the sanctions. And approximately 380 human lives (Iraqi lives) are lost every 24 hours.

So, to make that a little clearer - 380+ Iraqis die EACH DAY, EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR, FOR 10 YEARS IN A ROW - as a direct result of UN sanctions, and as a participating nation in the UN, we're all responsible. It's still happening...

While I wrote this, approximately 15 Iraqi's died as a result of UN imposed sanctions. Nice huh?

:whocares:

Toma
12-16-2003, 12:33 AM
Yeah, The un sucks because it is not a democracy. 5 countries can rule the world, and one of the 5 can make or break policy. If it were a majority rule democratic system, the US would be paying reparation to Yugoslavia, El Slavador, Chile, Nicaragua, Afghanistan, and Iraq, etc etc, and it would be the US leaders during those "eras" that woul dbe up on war crimes charges.... but, money talks again.

Also, open coerrcion and corruption by the US make it a joke. When they tried to get a resolution on invading Iraq, the US openly bribed other members for votes, tied IMF loans etc to a favorable vote etc... activities that in the "real world" would lead to jail time on their own.

It is dispicable...Money and economic power walks and talks....

Ben
12-16-2003, 12:59 AM
my god, I have never seen so much Anti American thoughts at once. What needs to be said is there is ALOT of information on BOTH sides of the argument that is not being properly demonstrated and that BOTH sides are guilty of some pretty bad stuff.

As far as personal attacks betwen fellow members, I would encourage both parties to avoid that behavior from now on. I would also like to encourage members to not come off so damn 'egotistical' and 'my answer is 100% correct so anyone who thinks different can screw themselves' type attitude. This arrogance only causes MORE hostility between yourselves and other members. With that being said.

GAME ON.

Weapon_R
12-16-2003, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by Ben
my god, I have never seen so much Anti American thoughts at once. What needs to be said is there is ALOT of information on BOTH sides of the argument that is not being properly demonstrated and that BOTH sides are guilty of some pretty bad stuff.

As far as personal attacks betwen fellow members, I would encourage both parties to avoid that behavior from now on. I would also like to encourage members to not come off so damn 'egotistical' and 'my answer is 100% correct so anyone who thinks different can screw themselves' type attitude. This arrogance only causes MORE hostility between yourselves and other members. With that being said.

GAME ON.

It's easy for people to sit back and defend the United States when they don't realize what this country has done for almost 50 years without being challenged, especially after the Soviet Regime diminished.

Speaking for myself, I know that the United States devastated my home country and forced us to come here to escape the fighting. While I thank the opportunities that have arisen for everyone of us because of our move, it's difficult to look back and provide a rationale for our move here.

Look up "American Peacekeeping in Lebanon" to see the devastation that they created there towards our army, even attacking Syrian targets with F-14 fighter jets. They cite outrage at the attacks that killed 240 Americans in the region, but they do not acknowledge the fact that they had been placed as full-fledged combatants in the midst of a war. If you only belief what you are fed here, and you do not actually have the opportunity to live and see both sides of the story without complete bias, it's difficult to make accurate assumptions. With that said, I can entirely sympathize with the anti-american sentiments that have been expressed here. I mean, the Americans had one time supported the thought of Israeli use of Nuclear weapons on the Arab countries - how can you trust a nation that still believes that Nuclear weapons are still applicable in the rules of engagement? God bless the Soviets for standing up to them and threatening retaliation at that time, or else a lot of people wouldn't be alive today :thumbsup:

4wheeldrift
12-16-2003, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by Weapon_R


It's easy for people to sit back and defend the United States when they don't realize what this country has done for almost 50 years without being challenged, especially after the Soviet Regime diminished.

Speaking for myself, I know that the United States devastated my home country and forced us to come here to escape the fighting. While I thank the opportunities that have arisen for everyone of us because of our move, it's difficult to look back and provide a rationale for our move here.

Look up "American Peacekeeping in Lebanon" to see the devastation that they created there towards our army, even attacking Syrian targets with F-14 fighter jets. They cite outrage at the attacks that killed 240 Americans in the region, but they do not acknowledge the fact that they had been placed as full-fledged combatants in the midst of a war. If you only belief what you are fed here, and you do not actually have the opportunity to live and see both sides of the story without complete bias, it's difficult to make accurate assumptions. With that said, I can entirely sympathize with the anti-american sentiments that have been expressed here. I mean, the Americans had one time supported the thought of Israeli use of Nuclear weapons on the Arab countries - how can you trust a nation that still believes that Nuclear weapons are still applicable in the rules of engagement? God bless the Soviets for standing up to them and threatening retaliation at that time, or else a lot of people wouldn't be alive today :thumbsup: But at the same time, your hatred of the US is the sum product of your experiences, and it colors your own interpretations of the events with your own bias. Don't pretend it doesn't, its visible in every single post you make against the US, and almost every post you put up in here. You've lived on both sides so you have more experience than the rest of us, but your perceptions are just as tainted. Don't expect everyone to think the same way you do. Maybe the best thing would have been for the UN to step back and let the Christians and Muslims in Lebanon annhiliate each other, since we can see what the result of trying to stop it has been. Honestly, in Lebanon, was there ANY excuse whatsoever for someone to drive a truck full of explosives into a bunker full of soldiers that were there on a UN mandate to keep the two sides of the civil war from killing each other? And then they are surprised when you piss off people who are trying to help? You didn't see things like that happening in Cyprus, but its ok in Lebanon? But hindsight is 20/20. If you really want to cast blame, you can thank the Japanese for ending US isolationism with the attack on pearl harbor. There are lots of evil nations out there, and there are more than a couple of nuclear capable nations that would have no qualms about using them if they found the right incentive (if things in Kashmere deteriorate, India and Pakistan are likely to the the first nations ever to instigate a nuclear war). Once again you are tarring the US while completely ignoring other nations that are every bit as guilty. If you're gonna slag one, you damn well better get them all.

accordboi_02
12-16-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by 4wheeldrift
But at the same time, your hatred of the US is the sum product of your experiences, and it colors your own interpretations of the events with your own bias. Don't pretend it doesn't, its visible in every single post you make against the US, and almost every post you put up in here. You've lived on both sides so you have more experience than the rest of us, but your perceptions are just as tainted. Don't expect everyone to think the same way you do. Maybe the best thing would have been for the UN to step back and let the Christians and Muslims in Lebanon annhiliate each other, since we can see what the result of trying to stop it has been. Honestly, in Lebanon, was there ANY excuse whatsoever for someone to drive a truck full of explosives into a bunker full of soldiers that were there on a UN mandate to keep the two sides of the civil war from killing each other? And then they are surprised when you piss off people who are trying to help? You didn't see things like that happening in Cyprus, but its ok in Lebanon? But hindsight is 20/20. If you really want to cast blame, you can thank the Japanese for ending US isolationism with the attack on pearl harbor. There are lots of evil nations out there, and there are more than a couple of nuclear capable nations that would have no qualms about using them if they found the right incentive (if things in Kashmere deteriorate, India and Pakistan are likely to the the first nations ever to instigate a nuclear war). Once again you are tarring the US while completely ignoring other nations that are every bit as guilty. If you're gonna slag one, you damn well better get them all.

:werd:

Ppl seem to forget how much worse it would be if the Soviets had won the cold war...

And as for Toma and your comments about killing US Soldiers, I have only this to say to you:

*grunt* *snort* *snort* *grunt* *grunt*

For those who don't speak Neanderthal, what I just said to him was: "Stop being such a hypocrite; your wishing death on US soldiers makes you NO BETTER than the person you claim to hate so much: George W. Bush"

Maybe instead of saying "Die US die" you could do something proactive? I don't know about anyone else, but I would rather that no one die, Iraqis or Americans... and if you hate the US THAT much, just fucking move over there, and fight against them!

:banghead:

Toma
12-16-2003, 10:58 AM
experience can colour perceptions, however, that being said, it can also just make you more aware of certain things as well.

Like, to be honest, I could give a rats ass about Afghanistan or Iraq. Watching the media and all, I could see how the average person could be lulled to believe the lies.

However, knwoing what they did in Yugoslavia, the lies they told, the cover ups, the civilians they targetted and slaughtered for the shear terror, first hand accounts from friends and family living over their opened my eyes wide open.

Then I started reading books, articles etc... stuff like Chomsky, that illustrated Americas similar past actions. So now, everytime I see something like Iraq, Afghansitan, N Korea, Iran etc.... you take a completely objective point of view. You immediately recognize similarites to past patterns, lies, propoganda etc....

You are "enlightened" and can immediately see through the crap and BS, and recognize the US for the terrorist state and hypocrite that it is.

Its not hard. You just need to open your eyes, but it also takes time to do the research, read up on past events. What transpired in a number of places in South America is BRUTAL. But it was prior to the internet, and the information was more easily hidden.

But the average joe does not have time. We live in a society where they keep you so busy working, paying taxes, raising a family, paying taxes etc.... that you get home after 9-6, have dinner, take care of some "stuff", and off to bed. Who has time to worry and look into what seems a "mundane" topic half a planet away?

Toma
12-16-2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by accordboi_02


:werd:

Ppl seem to forget how much worse it would be if the Soviets had won the cold war...

And as for Toma and your comments about killing US Soldiers, I have only this to say to you:

*grunt* *snort* *snort* *grunt* *grunt*

For those who don't speak Neanderthal, what I just said to him was: "Stop being such a hypocrite; your wishing death on US soldiers makes you NO BETTER than the person you claim to hate so much: George W. Bush"

Maybe instead of saying "Die US die" you could do something proactive? I don't know about anyone else, but I would rather that no one die, Iraqis or Americans... and if you hate the US THAT much, just fucking move over there, and fight against them!

:banghead:
If the US attacked Canada, would I be a terrorist for fighting back?

The US invaded someone elses country against the wishes of the international community, against any international law. I would hope Iraq defends itself to the death from the "real" terrorists that bomb from 10,000 feet, by remote control and other cowardly ways - the Americans.

I never said "die us die". But the reality is, AMerican soldiers in body bags weaken American morale, and drop support for this war at "home". Seems absurd, but seems like about the only way to get the Americans out of where they do not belong is for them to endure massive casualties, and massive financial loss.

accordboi_02
12-16-2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Toma
experience can colour perceptions, however, that being said, it can also just make you more aware of certain things as well.

Like, to be honest, I could give a rats ass about Afghanistan or Iraq. Watching the media and all, I could see how the average person could be lulled to believe the lies.

However, knwoing what they did in Yugoslavia, the lies they told, the cover ups, the civilians they targetted and slaughtered for the shear terror, first hand accounts from friends and family living over their opened my eyes wide open.

Then I started reading books, articles etc... stuff like Chomsky, that illustrated Americas similar past actions. So now, everytime I see something like Iraq, Afghansitan, N Korea, Iran etc.... you take a completely objective point of view. You immediately recognize similarites to past patterns, lies, propoganda etc....

You are "enlightened" and can immediately see through the crap and BS, and recognize the US for the terrorist state and hypocrite that it is.

Its not hard. You just need to open your eyes, but it also takes time to do the research, read up on past events. What transpired in a number of places in South America is BRUTAL. But it was prior to the internet, and the information was more easily hidden.

But the average joe does not have time. We live in a society where they keep you so busy working, paying taxes, raising a family, paying taxes etc.... that you get home after 9-6, have dinner, take care of some "stuff", and off to bed. Who has time to worry and look into what seems a "mundane" topic half a planet away?

If you're so "enlightened" how does that justify wishing death on American soldiers?

And to be quite honest, from your posts, you don't seem very objective at all.

and just a FYI: many of the Nazis who killed in the Holocaust were not ordered to do it; in fact they were given the choice to leave if they didnt want to shoot Jews... you like to read, so if the holocaust interests you at all, check out Christopher Browning - "Ordinary Men: Police Battalion 101..." or, for a much more contentious view (which may be more to your liking) Daniel Goldhagen - "Hitler's Willing Executioners..."

Weapon_R
12-16-2003, 11:09 AM
I also disagree with 4wheeldrift when he says that experience clouds perception. In fact, I think it would do the opposite, as seeing everything firsthand and being old enough to understand what goes on amplifies a person's perception of the situation.

Also, in regards to the term terrorist, it's played out. Anyone who fights the United States, regardless of whether the U.S. invades the country or not, are terrorists. The Afghanis are terrorists, the Iraqis are terrorists, the Arabs are terrorists, the Serbians are terrorists...the list goes on forever.

Toma
12-16-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by accordboi_02


If you're so "enlightened" how does that justify wishing death on American soldiers?



Re-read my previous post. Short of a miracle, it seems the only way to get Amercans OUT OF IRAQ.

max_boost
12-16-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Toma
Seems absurd, but seems like about the only way to get the Americans out of where they do not belong is for them to endure massive casualties, and massive financial loss. Vietnam:thumbsup:

itsalebaron
12-16-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Ben
my god, I have never seen so much Anti American thoughts at once. What needs to be said is there is ALOT of information on BOTH sides of the argument that is not being properly demonstrated and that BOTH sides are guilty of some pretty bad stuff.

As far as personal attacks betwen fellow members, I would encourage both parties to avoid that behavior from now on. I would also like to encourage members to not come off so damn 'egotistical' and 'my answer is 100% correct so anyone who thinks different can screw themselves' type attitude. This arrogance only causes MORE hostility between yourselves and other members. With that being said.

GAME ON.

:thumbsup: Fair enough .. my appologies to anyone I did offend. And TOMA I do not wish your family dead I was simply using it as an example about how you came off about other peoples families. More death does not solve anything. I just want my brother in law home safely, and if it was your family I do not doubt you would feel the same.

JUst a question for all these people all gung ho against the americans? what kinda car do you drive? products you own? no one seems to be DOING anything but typing. There are plenty other choices that would not help the american economy which well .. pays for that army you are all bitching about.

Toma
12-16-2003, 02:16 PM
Well, my Mustang was made in Windsor Ontario.

Most my electronics are from asia.

I refuse to by US grown fruit and produce (more to do with their "standards".

Most clothing is made overseas ....

My oil, gas, water, electricity are all canadian, and America is "our" biggest customer.

Christ, I don't think I own anything besides a few chips in my computer that are made in the US.

Come to think of it, if everyone refused to export to the US, it would shrivel and die in less then 5 years ;)

Toma

itsalebaron
12-16-2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Toma
Well, my Mustang was made in Windsor Ontario.

Most my electronics are from asia.

I refuse to by US grown fruit and produce (more to do with their "standards".

Most clothing is made overseas ....

My oil, gas, water, electricity are all canadian, and America is "our" biggest customer.

Christ, I don't think I own anything besides a few chips in my computer that are made in the US.

Come to think of it, if everyone refused to export to the US, it would shrivel and die in less then 5 years ;)

Toma

I can totally respect the fact that you actually TRY and buy non-american to support your cause. However I am certain the FORD motor company is an american company, and no whether where it is made some on that money is still supporting an american company. Do you only watch Canadian programming on television? Only buy CD made by Canadian artists? Revamp all your computer software so it is only supplied by non US companies?

My point behind all of this is Canada wouldn't be the country it is today without the US. A lot of people can knock the Americans while they are totally Americanized themselves. The actually support the Americans a LOT more then they think. Once again I can respect someone who actually takes measures to atleast cut down on this, but it is funny how alot of people would never give up such a simple thing as US cable TV and movies, because that wouldnt be convienient for them. I know I wouldn't but then again I am a strong supported of the US in general.

Toma
12-16-2003, 04:28 PM
Yeah, its true....we are lucky we are situated next to a HUGE consumer like the US....it does benefit our economy. But if it were not "them" it would have been someone else. Its impossible that if there were no Americans that "America" would have been barren wasteland.

As for stuff like Ford... of course its an American company, however, its a trafe off. If the benefit were purely to the Americans, it would be bad. However, I benefit, Canadians and job creation benefits, and certainly windsors economy benefits. Aside from that, share holders, of which there are probably several million in Canada alone benefir\t, as does our government through taxation of the plant, production, and raw materials the company uses. Taxes that pay for our superior healthcare, education and welfare systems.

You are thinking black and white with such ridiculous allegations.

As for CD's, software and television etc.... I am a social anarchist. If its a public good (goods that are neither excludable or rival), then Its a a free for all. So, if I like a song I hear, I will download it for free. If it was not possible to download it (ie there was no internet, radio etc...), I would not buy it. Christ, i have not bought a CD in about 10 years.

itsalebaron
12-16-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Toma
Yeah, its true....we are lucky we are situated next to a HUGE consumer like the US....it does benefit our economy. But if it were not "them" it would have been someone else. Its impossible that if there were no Americans that "America" would have been barren wasteland.

As for stuff like Ford... of course its an American company, however, its a trafe off. If the benefit were purely to the Americans, it would be bad. However, I benefit, Canadians and job creation benefits, and certainly windsors economy benefits. Aside from that, share holders, of which there are probably several million in Canada alone benefir\t, as does our government through taxation of the plant, production, and raw materials the company uses. Taxes that pay for our superior healthcare, education and welfare systems.

You are thinking black and white with such ridiculous allegations.

As for CD's, software and television etc.... I am a social anarchist. If its a public good (goods that are neither excludable or rival), then Its a a free for all. So, if I like a song I hear, I will download it for free. If it was not possible to download it (ie there was no internet, radio etc...), I would not buy it. Christ, i have not bought a CD in about 10 years.

Your are right I was using very black and white examples. The way think though, you could have chosen another car which would have not given any benefit to the US and STILL created the same benefits to Canada.

I was not directing these questions directly at you either, was just curious how other people live their lives to actually make a difference. As i said above I can totally respect the fact that you are changing you life to try and make a difference.


BTW since when does social anarchist practice violence to gain solution? Anything I have read on the subject calls for NON-VIOLENT solutions.