SUV crashes into home, kills two....

[ICEBERG]

Sorry if this is a repost.

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2010/06/09/14319386.html

But looks like there was a cop chase and the end result looks pretty bad. The Officer is saying that he turned OFF his lights and did not chase the suspected stolen jeep.

But there was a witness claiming that They were certainly chasing because there were two police officers at the scene within seconds.

I guess we will find out what really happened.

[thetransporter]

NE?

[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by thetransporter
NE?

808 10 St. N.W.

[Thomas Gabriel]

Originally posted by ICEBERG


808 10 St. N.W.

City police say they weren’t pursuing a fleeing SUV that crashed into a northeast house early Wednesday, bursting into flames and killing both occupants.

And while investigators with the Alberta Serious Incident Response Team (ASIRT) agree with police, neighbours like Sable Sweetgrass say cops weren’t far behind the white Jeep 4X4 that plowed into a house at 808 10 St. N.W.

wtf

[max_boost]

At least it was the idiots in the Jeep that got killed.

[msommers]

It was in the NE, just coming up the hill from Bridgeland on 10 St. Apparently the car hit the house and burst into flames? The guy must have been either wasted as shit or going so insanely fast. Thing is, I don't really know how you could be going that fast where that particular house is...the whole situation is messed up.

[A3GTiVR6SC]

Darwin strikes again.:thumbsup:

[speedog]

What are the chances that the two people in this truck (who were known to the police) were transporting some highly volatile liquids that might be used in a illegal drug lab operation. Just saying seeing as vehicles generally do not start on fire that easily when they crash and they also do not usually burn so fast so as to make an escape so difficult from the vehicle that's been crashed. This just seems like a very odd situation indeed.

[FraserB]

Now some fruitcake is bashing the cops, saying they took too long to help the criminals in the Jeep. Not surprisingly the witness has the balls to bash the cops and videotape them, them ask for their identity to be shielded, but lack the fortitude to help out themselves. It also seems like the "seconds" it took the police to arrive was actually 3 minutes.


http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100609/CGY_Response_Fatal_100609/20100609/?hub=CalgaryHome


Good riddance to bad rubbish, thankfully the homeowners were not injured or the police who rescued the driver and passenger.

:thumbsup: To Cst. Lind for having the guts to go into a burning vehicle to help out two people who very may well kill him in return.

[Super_Geo]

Viewer video taken shortly after impact shows Cst. Lind taking the passenger out of the vehicle about four minutes after the video started rolling.

"He just didn't seem to be going as quick as I thought he would. I mean, I thought there might be people in there and it was surprising," says the witness who does not want to be identified.

Fuck you, you spineless fucking faggot who managed to stand there for FOUR FUCKING MINUTES without lifting a god damn finger and then has the audacity to question anything.

[Kloubek]

^^ No shit eh?

[scat330]

They stole the car, the building stole their lives.

I don't care.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by Super_Geo


Fuck you, you spineless fucking faggot who managed to stand there for FOUR FUCKING MINUTES without lifting a god damn finger and then has the audacity to question anything.

Exactly, the cop still have to assess if the occupants are going to be a danger to them, not just "let's pull out the people we're trying to chase down who might still have guns"

Also, a vehicle already in flames will only get worst. (fuel line, chemicals they might be carrying, etc...)

[Jim Rome99]

The police are in major trouble here. Why did the constable believe he had the right to pull these people over? According to the news, he ran the plates "randomly" and discovered that although the vehicle was registered to a female owner, it was being driven by a man with another man in the passenger seat.

That's not probably cause. These two men are dead because of this policeman's error. Save me the "he was driving on a suspended license" crap. That doesn't mean you deserve to die.

This story isn't going to go away. All the police have to do is release the dashcam footage from the constable who tried to pull them over. Oh I wonder why they won't do that? Ask yourself. I have nothing but respect for 99% of police officers but this guy sounds like a crook to me.

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
The police are in major trouble here. Why did the constable believe he had the right to pull these people over? According to the news, he ran the plates "randomly" and discovered that although the vehicle was registered to a female owner, it was being driven by a man with another man in the passenger seat.

That's not probably cause. These two men are dead because of this policeman's error. Save me the "he was driving on a suspended license" crap. That doesn't mean you deserve to die.

This story isn't going to go away. All the police have to do is release the dashcam footage from the constable who tried to pull them over. Oh I wonder why they won't do that? Ask yourself. I have nothing but respect for 99% of police officers but this guy sounds like a crook to me.

Are you serious?

He didn't make them speed, nor make them crash into a building; they made that choice themselves you self righteous prick.

And its probable cause.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
The police are in major trouble here. Why did the constable believe he had the right to pull these people over? According to the news, he ran the plates "randomly" and discovered that although the vehicle was registered to a female owner, it was being driven by a man with another man in the passenger seat.

That's not probably cause. These two men are dead because of this policeman's error. Save me the "he was driving on a suspended license" crap. That doesn't mean you deserve to die.

This story isn't going to go away. All the police have to do is release the dashcam footage from the constable who tried to pull them over. Oh I wonder why they won't do that? Ask yourself. I have nothing but respect for 99% of police officers but this guy sounds like a crook to me.

Really? I thought it was the actions of the driver that caused the crash. How did the cop crash the Jeep?

As for 'probable cause', (which is an American term, the Supreme Court of Canada has already ruled that police can stop any vehicle to check documentation ( including proof of ownership), to inspect the road worthyness of the vehicle, and to check the sobriety of the driver.

Nevermind that, but if he had reasonable suspicio. That the vehicle was stolen he can enter into an investigation of that, which includes detaining the the driver by stopping him. Often cops atempt to call the owner of the vehicle to see if they know who has it. I can't remember if a news report said he did that, but it is common practice. Combine that with personal experience, ie driver staring at a cop as he drives by, etc you can build a reasonable suspicion. Now the courts may rule in the end that it wasn't enough, but that doesn't cause Jeeps to take off at a high rate of speed and crashing into houses.

Yes te cop could be in trouble if he did pursue the driver, but only in policy, there is no law that says we can't pursue if someone doesn't stop, it's actually a criminal charge, fleeing from police. The dash cams are sti in a pilot program, but the car will have a black box that includes gps and other data so it will be determined if he is telling the truth or not.

[C_Dave45]

Who cares if they were chasing them...who cares if they didn't have "probable cause" (which means nothing...cops have the right to stop and check any vehicle at any time on any road...don't need a reason) These pieces of shit brought everything upon themselves. In another scenario they would've blown through a red light and killed some mother of 3. Sick and tired of all the "bleeding hearts" bullshit. No wonder the cops are afraid to say what really happened....
"...we saw two morons driving a family vehicle at 1 in the morning....fuckin rights we pulled them over...they had beady little eyes..."

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
The police are in major trouble here. Why did the constable believe he had the right to pull these people over? According to the news, he ran the plates "randomly" and discovered that although the vehicle was registered to a female owner, it was being driven by a man with another man in the passenger seat.

That's not probably cause. These two men are dead because of this policeman's error. Save me the "he was driving on a suspended license" crap. That doesn't mean you deserve to die.

This story isn't going to go away. All the police have to do is release the dashcam footage from the constable who tried to pull them over. Oh I wonder why they won't do that? Ask yourself. I have nothing but respect for 99% of police officers but this guy sounds like a crook to me.

Thank you for that completely unreasonable assessment of this situation. You give me a logical and fact based reply telling me how this officer made an "error" and how him doing his job directly contributed to the death of these two and I'll eat my hat.

Here is my perspective on it.

That area is a known drug trafficking area, has a high rate of property crime, commonly has stolen vehicles rolling through, etc. He is a veteran member who saw something that didn't look right, and he investigated it. Lo and behold, early morning hours and two males are driving a vehicle registered to a female... not only that, but a model of vehicle stolen EVERYDAY in this city. You think that MIGHT merit further investigation?? And lest I forget, the TSA allows us to stop any vehicle for a document check to ensure the person driving is licensed, insured, etc. There is your "probable cause". (FYI, it's reasonable and probable grounds in this country)

Explain to me how his attempt to stop a vehicle caused the driver to crash into a house. Did he put a gun to their head and tell them to drive recklessly? Did he tell them not to lawfully stop for them and flee from police? I think you know the answer. It would seem to me that the officer wasn't in the driver's seat of that car when it crashed into the house, and regardless of what that officer may have been doing, the subject who was driving had the choice to lawfully stop or at the very least not drive like a retard when they took off.

Which leads me to this...


Save me the "he was driving on a suspended license" crap. That doesn't mean you deserve to die.

I think you should think more carefully before you post things like this. Tell me how in the hell he knew this kid had a suspended license when the vehicle is registered to a FEMALE and he didn't have access to that information? While you are doing that, explain the "deserving to die" bit, because that sure sounds like you are talking about the beginning and the end of this whole thing without considering what happened in between.


Originally posted by Jim Rome99
All the police have to do is release the dashcam footage from the constable who tried to pull them over. Oh I wonder why they won't do that? Ask yourself.

Maybe because that dashcam footage would be considered evidence in a serious investigation. This goes for the GPS (yes, we have GPS that shows where we were, how fast we were going, equipment activiation, etc) and any other onboard data. It is very easy to determine if any officer was doing something other than what they said they were doing, so why the fuck would he lie about it?

I'm hoping this post was a joke or you are having a bad day or something. :rolleyes:

[snoop101]

DayGlow I got a question for you. When I worked security for the city of Kelowna we worked closely with the RCMP and when they chased someone the head guy in the office (forget his title) would say either to pursue or shut it down and form a square around the area. Is this something that happens here in Calgary or is the police officers choice to assess the situation.

Back to the post. I was reading the article in the paper this morning and thought the person who spoke up was a complete moron. First off how does some idiot know inside their house how far back the police were. Second like others have said with all the police in Canada getting injured on the job I can see why they are taking extra precautions. If the cop runs in then gets shot/stabbed then the media says "why did the cop just run in?", if the cop assess the situation then the media says "cop watches shit rats die".

[JfuckinC]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
The police are in major trouble here. Why did the constable believe he had the right to pull these people over? According to the news, he ran the plates "randomly" and discovered that although the vehicle was registered to a female owner, it was being driven by a man with another man in the passenger seat.

That's not probably cause. These two men are dead because of this policeman's error. Save me the "he was driving on a suspended license" crap. That doesn't mean you deserve to die.

This story isn't going to go away. All the police have to do is release the dashcam footage from the constable who tried to pull them over. Oh I wonder why they won't do that? Ask yourself. I have nothing but respect for 99% of police officers but this guy sounds like a crook to me.

Really? Like seriously man? You're not just trolling? Give your fucking head a shake. If i was a cop I'd be PIT maneuvering criminals into trees. But that's why i could never be one. :dunno:

[HyperZell]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
The police are in major trouble here. Why did the constable believe he had the right to pull these people over? According to the news, he ran the plates "randomly" and discovered that although the vehicle was registered to a female owner, it was being driven by a man with another man in the passenger seat.

That's not probably cause. These two men are dead because of this policeman's error. Save me the "he was driving on a suspended license" crap. That doesn't mean you deserve to die.

This story isn't going to go away. All the police have to do is release the dashcam footage from the constable who tried to pull them over. Oh I wonder why they won't do that? Ask yourself. I have nothing but respect for 99% of police officers but this guy sounds like a crook to me. http://www.iphonesavior.com/images/2008/02/29/windows_vista_fail.jpg

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
The police are in major trouble here. Why did the constable believe he had the right to pull these people over? According to the news, he ran the plates "randomly" and discovered that although the vehicle was registered to a female owner, it was being driven by a man with another man in the passenger seat.

That's not probably cause. These two men are dead because of this policeman's error. Save me the "he was driving on a suspended license" crap. That doesn't mean you deserve to die.

This story isn't going to go away. All the police have to do is release the dashcam footage from the constable who tried to pull them over. Oh I wonder why they won't do that? Ask yourself. I have nothing but respect for 99% of police officers but this guy sounds like a crook to me.

:facepalm:

While there is questions if the claim of no chase is legit, it's the NE and the cop's suspicions was right.

I'm glad the only 2 died are the losers in the Jeep.

[MilanoRedTeg]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
The police are in major trouble here. Why did the constable believe he had the right to pull these people over? According to the news, he ran the plates "randomly" and discovered that although the vehicle was registered to a female owner, it was being driven by a man with another man in the passenger seat.

That's not probably cause. These two men are dead because of this policeman's error. Save me the "he was driving on a suspended license" crap. That doesn't mean you deserve to die.

This story isn't going to go away. All the police have to do is release the dashcam footage from the constable who tried to pull them over. Oh I wonder why they won't do that? Ask yourself. I have nothing but respect for 99% of police officers but this guy sounds like a crook to me.

One of the dumbest things I've ever read.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by snoop101
DayGlow I got a question for you. When I worked security for the city of Kelowna we worked closely with the RCMP and when they chased someone the head guy in the office (forget his title) would say either to pursue or shut it down and form a square around the area. Is this something that happens here in Calgary or is the police officers choice to assess the situation.

I won't discuss actual tactics used, but the general test for any pursuit is 'does the need to apprehend the suspect outweigh the danger the pursuit causes to the public'. This is considered by the officers at the scene and by supervisors as well.

[Jim Rome99]

Dayglow and Phil - I meant no disrespect, I've messaged you both about becoming a CPS member myself and I have nothing but respect for 99% of policeman.

Why don't police in Calgary have cameras in their cars? I just don't understand this. There wouldn't be any doubt about this constable's actions if he had the videotape to prove what happened.

I really worry about police brutality. My father works in Compton, California for the LA County sheriff and he's told me stories that really make my head spin. I used to never doubt policemen's stories about what happens until he starting working there.

I don't agree with the "GPS and the black box will solve all doubt". The investigation team will just clear the constable like they always do, they have nothing to gain by revealing any error the police ever make.

Why not just put a videocamera in there? They've had them all over the place for twenty or more years now. How many times have you seen shows on TV featuring police pursuits, all from the dashcam?

Video footage is the way to go here, it removes all doubt.

I'm not trying to talk crap about cops, I really really respect and appreciate the service they provide to me and my family. However, when things start happening like a dude just "randomly attacks" an officer downtown a couple of weeks ago it makes you wonder who is telling the truth. People, even crackheads, don't just randomly attack other people for no good reason.

[DayGlow]

Dash cams are a pilot right now. It's a cost thing. I have no idea what the costs are, but I'd hazard a guess that it's over $5000 a vehicle, plus the cost of a storage system that will stand up to a court challange. Our ident guys have only got digital cameras a few years ago because of challanges to digital pictures and storage.

The service takes pursuits very seriously. The upper management is all about risk management and a constable openning them up to serious lawsuits because of a pursuit is a major risk. Guys get done when they push this. Just because internal disipline isn't in the media it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I know a guy who list 40 hours pay because he started to go after a stolen car and was shut down a few blocks later by the street sergent. And if you lie and get caught, you are risking your career. A lot of things can be forgiven and looked at as learning ecperiences, but deceit will cost you dearly every time.

Edit.... One point in the article seems to be causing confusion. The cop stated that he found the crash 3 minutes after he lost sight of the jeep while a witness says he was on scene moments aftr the crash. He said when he lost sight. He most likely kept going in the same direction after shutting down in hope of finding the jeep dumped. He could have been 30 seconds behind the jeep out of sight and came across the crash. He never claimed to have arrived 3 minutes after the crash.

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
Dayglow and Phil - I meant no disrespect, I've messaged you both about becoming a CPS member myself and I have nothing but respect for 99% of policeman.'t just randomly attack other people for no good reason.

...which is why I'm wondering how you can possibly run your mouth like that and then consider doing a job where you have to have all the facts before making a decision. See why that could be problematic? :)


Originally posted by Jim Rome99 Why don't police in Calgary have cameras in their cars? I just don't understand this. There wouldn't be any doubt about this constable's actions if he had the videotape to prove what happened.

Because it's still a pilot project. There are cars that do have them, and I'm not going to say who, but they are out there and a system is being chosen very shortly. This is not something taken lightly, especially with issues of security, storage, making them tamper proof, etc. They are expensive, and budgets are limited. It's all about the money.


Originally posted by Jim Rome99 I really worry about police brutality. My father works in Compton, California for the LA County sheriff and he's told me stories that really make my head spin. I used to never doubt policemen's stories about what happens until he starting working there.

Fine, be worried - but don't jump to conclusions.


Originally posted by Jim Rome99 I don't agree with the "GPS and the black box will solve all doubt". The investigation team will just clear the constable like they always do, they have nothing to gain by revealing any error the police ever make.

There you go again. You don't agree with it, but you make ridiculous assertions like "the investigation team will just clear them like always" implying some cover up that isn't happening, and have no factual basis for any of what you are saying. They have nothing to gain by covering it up either, do they? GPS and the blackbox are there for this very reason, they can't just willfully ignore it. There is oversight higher up the food chain with ASIRT and they have to answer to someone else, so you can forget that.

As an aside, why do you think they clear a lot of investigations? It's because the officers didn't do anything wrong. Why in the hell is that so far fetched to believe? You can go on the SolGen website and look at every single LERB review going back a number of years and see the exact details, why it was or wasn't sustained, and see how many end up going to disciplinary but aren't as serious as the media and panicky left wingers make it out to be. You are seeing an upward trend in people making frivolous claims against the police because they figure they can get away with it; not because they are legitimate. In turn you are seeing the majority of investigations being found in favor of the police because they didn't do anything wrong.


Originally posted by Jim Rome99 I'm not trying to talk crap about cops, I really really respect and appreciate the service they provide to me and my family. However, when things start happening like a dude just "randomly attacks" an officer downtown a couple of weeks ago it makes you wonder who is telling the truth. People, even crackheads, don't just randomly attack other people for no good reason.

Wow, for someone who doesn't work downtown and see the violence that crackheads and even normal people randomly inflict upon each other you sure seem to have it figured out. It is the reality, whether you want to believe it or not. Therefore I wouldn't be using this as a basis for questioning the validity of what we say or do.

By the way, that attack last week was not random. It was calculated and targeted at ASIRT members because he was pissed off about something. You think he came into a meeting and just happened to have a knife on him for this attack he didn't think he was going to commit? Jebus.

I get what you are trying to say but you really don't have a solid leg to stand on. ;)

[Jim Rome99]

Originally posted by phil98z24


...which is why I'm wondering how you can possibly run your mouth like that and then consider doing a job where you have to have all the facts before making a decision. See why that could be problematic? :)



Because it's still a pilot project. There are cars that do have them, and I'm not going to say who, but they are out there and a system is being chosen very shortly. This is not something taken lightly, especially with issues of security, storage, making them tamper proof, etc. They are expensive, and budgets are limited. It's all about the money.



Fine, be worried - but don't jump to conclusions.



There you go again. You don't agree with it, but you make ridiculous assertions like "the investigation team will just clear them like always" implying some cover up that isn't happening, and have no factual basis for any of what you are saying. They have nothing to gain by covering it up either, do they? GPS and the blackbox are there for this very reason, they can't just willfully ignore it. There is oversight higher up the food chain with ASIRT and they have to answer to someone else, so you can forget that.

As an aside, why do you think they clear a lot of investigations? It's because the officers didn't do anything wrong. Why in the hell is that so far fetched to believe? You can go on the SolGen website and look at every single LERB review going back a number of years and see the exact details, why it was or wasn't sustained, and see how many end up going to disciplinary but aren't as serious as the media and panicky left wingers make it out to be. You are seeing an upward trend in people making frivolous claims against the police because they figure they can get away with it; not because they are legitimate. In turn you are seeing the majority of investigations being found in favor of the police because they didn't do anything wrong.



Wow, for someone who doesn't work downtown and see the violence that crackheads and even normal people randomly inflict upon each other you sure seem to have it figured out. It is the reality, whether you want to believe it or not. Therefore I wouldn't be using this as a basis for questioning the validity of what we say or do.

By the way, that attack last week was not random. It was calculated and targeted at ASIRT members because he was pissed off about something. You think he came into a meeting and just happened to have a knife on him for this attack he didn't think he was going to commit? Jebus.

I get what you are trying to say but you really don't have a solid leg to stand on. ;)

Hey, I stand corrected. It all just seemed very fishy to me when I first read the story. No offense intended, next time I'll think before I type up a BS response.

[sneek]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
Dayglow and Phil - I meant no disrespect, I've messaged you both about becoming a CPS member myself and I have nothing but respect for 99% of policeman.

Why don't police in Calgary have cameras in their cars? I just don't understand this. There wouldn't be any doubt about this constable's actions if he had the videotape to prove what happened.

I really worry about police brutality. My father works in Compton, California for the LA County sheriff and he's told me stories that really make my head spin. I used to never doubt policemen's stories about what happens until he starting working there.

I don't agree with the "GPS and the black box will solve all doubt". The investigation team will just clear the constable like they always do, they have nothing to gain by revealing any error the police ever make.

Why not just put a videocamera in there? They've had them all over the place for twenty or more years now. How many times have you seen shows on TV featuring police pursuits, all from the dashcam?

Video footage is the way to go here, it removes all doubt.

I'm not trying to talk crap about cops, I really really respect and appreciate the service they provide to me and my family. However, when things start happening like a dude just "randomly attacks" an officer downtown a couple of weeks ago it makes you wonder who is telling the truth. People, even crackheads, don't just randomly attack other people for no good reason.
:facepalm: Even I have seen a __take your pick__head/addict attack a stranger before. Think about how many stupid bar fights you have seen in your life? Hard drugs typically influence ones judgment more than alcohol...

[msommers]

Great response, Phil.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
Dayglow and Phil - I meant no disrespect, I've messaged you both about becoming a CPS member myself and I have nothing but respect for 99% of policeman.


Maybe you should walk a mile in their shoes before you jump to radical conclusions partly based on what you hear from a US LEO and what you might see on CSI, etc.

Go volunteer for the CPS, or the RCMP .... then come back and talk about the men and women who perform this thankless job.

[Jay911]

Originally posted by speedog
What are the chances that the two people in this truck (who were known to the police) were transporting some highly volatile liquids that might be used in a illegal drug lab operation. Just saying seeing as vehicles generally do not start on fire that easily when they crash and they also do not usually burn so fast so as to make an escape so difficult from the vehicle that's been crashed. This just seems like a very odd situation indeed.

News video appears to show the fire burning in the engine compartment at the base of the windshield. While it's true that vehicles don't generally burst into flame, a violent crash at high speeds tends to have this potential. The engine bay of a vehicle can get quite warm, and the impact forces sustained can break off components that will spray flammable fluids around all these hot parts. Not saying they didn't have anything illicit/dangerous on board, but all the fire I saw on TV was toward the front of the vehicle.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
Who cares if they were chasing them...who cares if they didn't have "probable cause" (which means nothing...cops have the right to stop and check any vehicle at any time on any road...don't need a reason) These pieces of shit brought everything upon themselves. In another scenario they would've blown through a red light and killed some mother of 3. Sick and tired of all the "bleeding hearts" bullshit. No wonder the cops are afraid to say what really happened....
"...we saw two morons driving a family vehicle at 1 in the morning....fuckin rights we pulled them over...they had beady little eyes..."

That last part made me LOL.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
Dayglow and Phil - I meant no disrespect, I've messaged you both about becoming a CPS member myself and I have nothing but respect for 99% of policeman.
If you have not applied yet, don't bother. If you have applied, please withdraw your application.

You apparently have no common sense- judging by your first post.

[nrt_vw]

Originally posted by Jim Rome99
The police are in major trouble here. Why did the constable believe he had the right to pull these people over? According to the news, he ran the plates "randomly" and discovered that although the vehicle was registered to a female owner, it was being driven by a man with another man in the passenger seat.

That's not probably cause. These two men are dead because of this policeman's error. Save me the "he was driving on a suspended license" crap. That doesn't mean you deserve to die.

This story isn't going to go away. All the police have to do is release the dashcam footage from the constable who tried to pull them over. Oh I wonder why they won't do that? Ask yourself. I have nothing but respect for 99% of police officers but this guy sounds like a crook to me.


pathetic

[autosm]

Originally posted by JustGo

If you have not applied yet, don't bother. If you have applied, please withdraw your application.

You apparently have no common sense- judging by your first post.


He would never make it past the interviews.

[911fever]

Jim Rome is an absolute idiot wow