Opinions on fighting my traffic ticket

[seriosbrad]

I was heading to work one morning at about 4am and came to a stop at a 4 way intersection. I stopped at the 4-way and to my left were two police cruisers both both facing the same way in both lanes. I knew they were just chatting/bullshitting so I left quickly before waiting to see what they were going to do.

I always stop for stop signs and lights etc. I only left the stop sign quickly because I could tell they were just chit chatting.

I feel like they were targeting me just for something to do early in the morning because I drive a somewhat loud lowered pickup truck that is yellow with black stripes and they were bored.

The ticket is for "failing to follow traffic control device" (stop sign) and it is $170.

Here's an example image of how everyone was stopped at the 4-way intersection.

http://www.areyouserios.com/upload/files/284_rtx1u/gahhhhh.jpg

What are my chances of fighting this? What should I tell the court?

[talonboi]

well if your going to fight, tell court what you just told us. but in the end you still need to do a full stop and any stop sign.

i would just pay it and learn from it

[B13Boy]

In my opinion, if you go to court they are going to say, no matter what you failed to stop and you will get the ticket. I think the smartest plan is to just ask for a reduction in the fine. They pretty much give you 50% off just for showing up.

[wintonyk]

you would think if you saw the cops and you went to a stop sign you would make extra effort to ensure you didn't do a rolling stop. Stop count to three go.

Pay the fine, you are just going to waste your time taking it to court.

[seriosbrad]

Thanks for the really quick replies. The 3 of you already have the opinion on what most people have told me, to just pay it and just be extra careful in the future. I still feel targeted because of what I was driving though :(

[Squishy]

If your truck is loud consider yourself lucky they didn't give you some other ticket.. so technically, no, they didn't target you.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by seriosbrad
Thanks for the really quick replies. The 3 of you already have the opinion on what most people have told me, to just pay it and just be extra careful in the future. I still feel targeted because of what I was driving though :(

everyone is a victim...

[lilmira]

So your ticket is for failing to yield to the vehicle that stopped before you did at a 4-way stop? Or no stopping at all?

Don't even mention your assumption about the appearance of your truck. That has nothing to do with it.

The only legit reason I can think of is that you only moved ahead after a complete stop for a reasonable among of time and it didn't appear to you that the two vehicles that stopped before you did showed any signs of moving through the intersection.

[seriosbrad]

Originally posted by lilmira
So your ticket is for failing to yield to the vehicle that stopped before you did at a 4-way stop? Or no stopping at all?

The officer explained it to me as not coming to a complete stop but . . .


The only legit reason I can think of is that you only moved ahead after a complete stop for a reasonable among of time and it didn't appear to you that the two vehicles that stopped before you did showed any signs of moving through the intersection.

this is pretty much exactly how it went. I stopped, but maybe not for long enough in the officers opinion, and then proceeded.

[Kloubek]

Well, if you didn't come to a complete stop (as others have suggested you really should have been paying attention to, with two cop cars there), then the ticket is valid and the chances of having it thrown out are pretty much nil.

If you DID come to a complete stop, then rolled ahead slowly to ensure the cops were not going to come into the intersection, then you have a case - albiet one that would be difficult to prove, based on the cops' perception.

With all this said, going down to fight a ticket will almost always result in a reduced fine at least....

[Modelexis]

I would totally fight that, obviously you did what was safe.

Cops are 'professional drivers' so obviously they will be good enough drivers not to crash into someone that doesn't wait the full 3 seconds.

Complete stops at stop signs are bs tickets.

[chkolny541]

Originally posted by Modelexis


Complete stops at stop signs are bs tickets. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: , bs or not its still a STOP sign and not just a 4 way yield intersection as many ppl treat them

[Modelexis]

^ That much I do understand, but the law isn't black and white, there is lots of room for interpretation and judgment.

These cops obviously made an over accusative (really? that's a word?) judgment about this guy breaking the 'law'.

I doubt the cop genuinely felt that he deserved a ticket.

It's like speeding laws, everyone knows the limit is 100, but 90% of people go above this, so to ticket someone that is just slightly over is really not being fair, and really abusing the letter of the law.

IMO :D

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by Modelexis
I would totally fight that, obviously you did what was safe.

Cops are 'professional drivers' so obviously they will be good enough drivers not to crash into someone that doesn't wait the full 3 seconds.

Complete stops at stop signs are bs tickets.

In no way does it say you have to wait 3 seconds to stop. A full stop is when all the wheels on the vehicle have stopped moving.


If the OP has come to a complete stop and you arrived before they did, then you are sweet; however, if you arrived after them then that's a different story.

Had you arrived at the same time and your wheels have ceased moving, then you have the right of way because you're on the right.

[beyond_ban]

I didn't read any of the thread except the op, BUT that being said, wouldn't one logically think that it would be extra important to stop at a 4 way stop sign when there are two cops sitting there at 4 in the morning? Or am i just way out in left field?

[xplicit_sir]

^^^


Originally posted by wintonyk
you would think if you saw the cops and you went to a stop sign you would make extra effort to ensure you didn't do a rolling stop.


But I agree the OP should of made more of an effort to stop.

[seriosbrad]

To add - I didn't realize they were police cars until I started rolling through the intersection, their lights were off and their cars were unmarked. I did see the cars from about 100ft before I got to the intersection so they were probably there quite some time before I arrived.

I agree that I should have stopped for a longer period of time, but still, i did come to a long enough stop to realize they really weren't going to move, especially considering they were there much longer than I was.

[jdm_eg6]

be prepared to pay 85$ for it, they will cut the ticket in half for you regardless. but if you decide to persue the matter to further court then you may pay nothing.

[torob]

Luck you got $170 from the start... I got same ticket by a angry cop yelling at me for my rolling stop and proceeded to call me a mad man out in the cold (probably because i turned into a parking lot to turn around instead of doing a u-turn at the intersection?). Put me down for $287
Pissed me off as i took it personally for the day - first ever ticket -- but it happens

Talked to crown, had it reduced to $172 + 2 demerits

[Lex350]

The timesless lesson. When you are younger and drive any sort of vehicle other than your dad's 4 door sedan you will be a target for police. It's always been theat way.

It is ironic because I could probably do a burn out leaving that intersection but because I am older they generally leave me alone.

[luxor]

The general rule of thumb when seeing police cars is avoid being seen by them at all cost and if that's not possible, drive like an old granny obeying all rules until they fuck off or until you turn off.

Cops have nothing better to do than to terrorize law abiding citizens with traffic tickets to generate revenue for their police department, that's fact no matter where you live. The only time a cop would turn a blind eye is if they were actually responding to a call. Get disclosure for this ticket and go see the crown, if you don't like the deal then fight it.

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by LUDELVR


In no way does it say you have to wait 3 seconds to stop. A full stop is when all the wheels on the vehicle have stopped moving.


Correct. I never heard of this three-second rule.

[black13]

Originally posted by luxor
The general rule of thumb when seeing police cars is avoid being seen by them at all cost and if that's not possible, drive like an old granny obeying all rules until they fuck off or until you turn off.

Cops have nothing better to do than to terrorize law abiding citizens with traffic tickets to generate revenue for their police department, that's fact no matter where you live. The only time a cop would turn a blind eye is if they were actually responding to a call. Get disclosure for this ticket and go see the crown, if you don't like the deal then fight it.

Word. That's what I do. It's horrible when they are right behind you and following you very closely which you would think is dangerous but I guess that's not their main concern. All they care about is speeding.

But the correct thing that you should've done was...
1.make complete stop.
2.make an effort to look at the other cars at the stop sign and determine who was their first.
3.Wait for other car to go
4.If not then proceed.

And please don't bring this stupid argument that it was your truck that made you a target. Trust me that's probably the last reason, you should drive a loud import with a fart can, then you'll be their main target everywhere you go.

[revelations]

I've heard of motorcyclists who have gotten the same "fail to follow...." ticket because they stopped without putting their foot down.

I've done the same thing many times, I come to a complete stop and balance my bike for 1-2 seconds then let the clutch out.

Stopping is... when your speed has reached 0.

You got nailed by some bored unmarked traffic guys.... no surprise.

[SJW]

Pay up you stupid son of a bitch.

[D. Dub]

How could you possibly stand a chance in court when it's your word against two cops

[LEGiiT]

REMEMBER:

A full LEGAL stop is 3 seconds, front bumper before the sidewalk or stop line.

I do think that's BS, but according to my drivers ed teacher a while ago, that's true...

Good luck.

[Kloubek]

I'm pretty sure I was taught a 3-second rule too, actually...

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Kloubek
I'm pretty sure I was taught a 3-second rule too, actually... Yeah, most people are taught it, but it's not law.

The law calls for "a complete stop where you do not proceed until safe to do so". I'm trying to find the exact section here.

Other stopping rules include, obviously, stopping before crosswalks or marked stop lines, but also that if no such markings exist that you must stop within 3m of the sign.

[JustGo]

Originally posted by Kloubek
I'm pretty sure I was taught a 3-second rule too, actually...

Three seconds allows for the following:

1) Come to a complete... COMPLETE stop.
2) Look left.
3) Look right.
4) Look left.
5) Proceed when safe to do so.

That's pretty much how it's taught, anyways. Not that anyone actually does it.

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by Mibz
Yeah, most people are taught it, but it's not law.

The law calls for "a complete stop where you do not proceed until safe to do so". I'm trying to find the exact section here.

Other stopping rules include, obviously, stopping before crosswalks or marked stop lines, but also that if no such markings exist that you must stop within 3m of the sign. Minor point: It's not within 3m of the sign actually, but 3m from the intersection. There are some intersections where the stop sign is placed more than 3m from the corner, and you're perfectly fine to go right past the stop sign so long as you stop w/in 3m of the intersection itself. Here's the wording for that and the other bit you were looking for from the Use of Highways and Rules of the Road Regulation:

Stop signs

37 A person driving a vehicle that is about to enter onto a highway from another highway that is marked by a “stop” sign shall bring the vehicle to a stop

(a) before entering on the intersecting roadway and at a point no further than 3 metres back from the intersecting roadway, or

(b) in the case where there is

(i) a marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, immediately before entering on the crosswalk, or

(ii) a marked stop line on the near side of the intersection, at the stop line.

Proceeding after stopping

38 When a person driving a vehicle is required to stop the vehicle pursuant to section 36 or 37, that person

(a) shall not cause the vehicle to proceed until the condition of the traffic on the highway being entered on is such that the vehicle can enter onto the highway in safety, and

(b) shall yield the right of way to all vehicles and pedestrians approaching that person’s vehicle and that are on the highway being entered.

[Kennyredline]

Originally posted by SJW
Pay up you stupid son of a bitch. .
Thanks, I didn't want to be the only one with this kind of reaction. Seriously, who runs a stop sign in front of TWO cops?!?!?!:facepalm:

[Mibz]

Originally posted by dexlargo
Minor point: It's not within 3m of the sign actually, but 3m from the intersection. There are some intersections where the stop sign is placed more than 3m from the corner, and you're perfectly fine to go right past the stop sign so long as you stop w/in 3m of the intersection itself. Here's the wording for that and the other bit you were looking for from the Use of Highways and Rules of the Road Regulation:
Good catch! Thanks.

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by JustGo


Three seconds allows for the following:

1) Come to a complete... COMPLETE stop.
2) Look left.
3) Look right.
4) Look left.
5) Proceed when safe to do so.

That's pretty much how it's taught, anyways. Not that anyone actually does it.

That's the way beginners are taught but what about looking straight ahead? Those steps assume you can't multitask. What they teach isn't necessarily the correct or best way to drive. I'll bet they still preach shoulder-checking lane changes. ;)

I'm scanning the intersection before I come to a complete stop. By the time I've stopped, I know exactly what's going on and can proceed when safe. No need to wait three seconds.

I also look right first so I don't get smoked by a someone cutting the left turn in front of me from the intersecting road. Not counting cars beside or behind you, that left-turning vehicle comes closest to yours while you're stopped at the intersection so it makes sense to look that way first.

Looking right first also makes sense when you're coming to a four-way stop; the guy on your right has the right-of-way should you both approach at approximately the same time.

[scat330]

If this means anything, you'd fail your motorcycle test if you didn't over exaggerate your head looking left, straight, right....