The G20 Thread

[derpderp]

Anyone else on here watching the news about the G20 protests? Opinions? Thoughts?

It seems like half of the people who are in DT Toronto right now are all just large groups of people out for fun. A bunch of people are just laughing as the police chase them around and nobody even appears to belong to any groups, no signs, no flags and waving at news cameras and on their phones smiling.

What the?

[Melinda]

Apparently there's a group called the 'black bloc' that are terrorizing downtown toronto. Most buildings down there are on lockdown, including all of the hospitals and some have been evacuated. Most storefront windows have been smashed in and looted and 6 cop cars (apparently set as bait cars to keep these people away from the G20 gates) are (or were) on fire.

Sounds pretty brutal. Way to completely ruin it for people who were peacefully protesting this weekend you idiots.

[kaput]

.

[ITR_typeR]

why are they protesting against g20? i though the g20 is how to fix the current economy:confused: ,

[mrstud]

all the liberals who were crying at the security costs are all in lockdown with a white flags by their side to wave. jack layton is a pussy.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by ITR_typeR
why are they protesting against g20? i though the g20 is how to fix the current economy:confused: ,


The G8 rules the world via NATO

The G20 is the other countries that want to be part of the empire and continue the ways of looting poor countries for resources, raping the environment for corporate profits, and removing civil liberties in place of government control

The only thing this meeting is going to fix is how much money will go to German and French banks to save the Euro, and how much tax you will pay as a Canadian to bail out foreign banks via the IMF.

Now, i've been watching some videos of the protesters and all I can pick out are idiots running around with Canadian flags sans maple leaf avec cannabis leaf.

F*cking idiots.

[ITR_typeR]

ooohh ok thanks.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by ITR_typeR
ooohh ok thanks.


True Story.



Toroto's G-20 meeting is shaping up as the most impotent yet most confrontational of all recent summits so far. As Bloomberg reports, "Group of 20 leaders will agree to targets to tackle deficits in their final statement without prescribing when nations should begin to move to balance their books, according to officials with knowledge of the document." Due to the escalating schism between US and Europe, or Geithner and Merkel (incidentally, for definitive proof Merkel is spot on, Argentina just joined the pro-Keynesian chorus saying Europe's focus on cutting deficits is "absolutely wrong" - and if anyone knows anything about top notch economic policy, it is surely Argentina), it is likely that neither will push their own agenda on others, and with the yuan's recent symbolic depegging, everyone will be able to go home pretending victory was achieved. Yet despite the complete lack of consensus, somehow the leaders have decided to cut deficits in half by 2013, even though this target is beyond ridiculous, coming at a time when the entire world is spending with a profligacy that would make a drunk sailor blush (even one that has access to Bernanke's printer). "The draft of the statement includes targets championed by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper to have countries halve deficits by 2013 and start to stabilize their debt-to-output ratios by 2016, the officials said. There is a consensus to maintain stimulus now with the focus on deficits in the “medium- term,” Harper said in a June 21 interview." In other words, nothing will change, and eventually, when the entire world has over 5 times its entire GDP encumbered in real cash debt (as opposed to the $1.2 quadrillion in pseudo-metaphysical debt), and interest payments alone account for well over 30% or more of economic production, the G-20 might, just might, consider debt cutting approaches. In the meantime, initial protests which had been largely peaceful, quickly turned violent as over 30 arrests have been made in Toronto so far, coupled with burning police cars, the use of gas masks, and direct police-protest engagements.


32OW6cu4Ypk

v1tyGXX7sis


This reporter lady actually gives a semi-good explanation on why people are protesting:
NxaWaxvqnFU

[ZenOps]

Harper is a strong capitalist at heart. Which means he believes in "owning the podium" and in the G8, but not the G192 (United Nations) Bush also pretty much ignored the G192.

In many ways - the G8 and UN are incompatible. The G8 is an exclusivity club, the UN is a open forum for everyone. If you ask me - China would be G1 (but don't quote me on that, or Rob Anders will come and thwack me over the back of the head)

Strong support of Israel (G8), which the UN has condemned only underlines the sides taken.

[mrstud]

all the violent protesters need real jobs. barrista at starbucks doesn't count

[Canmorite]

It just looks like the anarchists are out having fun and causing shit. No one will take them seriously. Socialist group? Gimmie a break :rofl:

[Neil4Speed]

Why the hell did these guys hold it in Toronto.

Seriously? Why not have it somewhere picturesque away from massive amounts of population who could gather together and cause a mess. Labrador perhaps?? Would have saved a bunch of money on security measures too.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[97'Scort]

They should be able to seize the assets of any of the violent idiots to pay for the security tab. They're the only reason they have to ship in hundreds of riot police.

[kevie88]

Originally posted by 97'Scort
They should be able to seize the assets of any of the violent idiots to pay for the security tab. They're the only reason they have to ship in hundreds of riot police.

What assets? Take their bag of weed? Most of these idiots look homeless to me.. :dunno:

[403Gemini]

Need more tear gas...

ShTVpGuzk1M

[rx7_turbo2]

I've been watching the coverage and am no expert here but....

The problem seems to be a small group of social misfits out to vandalize some shit, and this event is an excuse as good as any. In addition to these punks there is a larger group of people who are involved because they want a "show". They wont vandalize anything themselves but are happy to stand idle and watch. They interviewed a couple of guys on CBC who said when asked why they were there "We just wanted to say we were part of it, see what it's all about"

Letting the gas and rubber bullets fly will send both groups home in short order.

So far from what I've seen through the media the police and RCMP have actually shown substantial restraint. I'm not sure I'd be able to do the same.

There was ALOT of people in this country upset about the amount of $$$ spent on security for this event. That seemed to be one of the issues people were protesting against. Those people lost the vast majority of their support the second the first cop car got torched. Now the money spent seems neccessary.

I will agree however that holding this thing in a major metropolitan area is just asking for trouble but.....

[97'Scort]

Originally posted by kevie88
What assets? Take their bag of weed? Most of these idiots look homeless to me.. :dunno:
Better than the slap on the wrist they're going to get.

Even better, make them work for the corporate giants they're protesting, and the wages used to pay for the damages. That'd fuck with them.

[Vanner]

I also had seen the news online and on TV about the G20 thing. These protests which had occurred with the burn-outs (of cop cars), the fights and what else whatever between the protesters and the police.

In a nutshell, it's amusing to know these very protesters are actually proving the government to invest the $1 billion in the security measures for the G20 summit - LOL :rofl: !!

Come on, it's pathetic! Seesh.... and I'm not impressed about what the Fat Cats international are talking over there.

[mrstud]

the reporters surrounding the hooligans are all liberal and are waiting to report on police violence. they are all on the protesters sides.

[SRT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOjGdvju-po&feature=player_embedded

[.norco.]

wow, pretty killer vid.

[got_mike33]

Originally posted by Neil4Speed
Why the hell did these guys hold it in Toronto.

Seriously? Why not have it somewhere picturesque away from massive amounts of population who could gather together and cause a mess. Labrador perhaps?? Would have saved a bunch of money on security measures too.

I completely agree with this.

Does anyone else remember when they held the G8 in Kaninaskis a while back (2002 I think)? Barely anything happened that week. There were a few, very peaceful protests in downtown Calgary. But none of this car burning, window smashing, hooliganism that is going on in Toronto.

[911fever]

Originally posted by 97'Scort
They should be able to seize the assets of any of the violent idiots to pay for the security tab. They're the only reason they have to ship in hundreds of riot police.

haha true, but they have no assets


Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
I've been watching the coverage and am no expert here but....

The problem seems to be a small group of social misfits out to vandalize some shit, and this event is an excuse as good as any. In addition to these punks there is a larger group of people who are involved because they want a "show". They wont vandalize anything themselves but are happy to stand idle and watch. They interviewed a couple of guys on CBC who said when asked why they were there "We just wanted to say we were part of it, see what it's all about"

Letting the gas and rubber bullets fly will send both groups home in short order.

So far from what I've seen through the media the police and RCMP have actually shown substantial restraint. I'm not sure I'd be able to do the same.

There was ALOT of people in this country upset about the amount of $$$ spent on security for this event. That seemed to be one of the issues people were protesting against. Those people lost the vast majority of their support the second the first cop car got torched. Now the money spent seems neccessary.

I will agree however that holding this thing in a major metropolitan area is just asking for trouble but.....

It's idiots who just want to start stuff in the false premise of a cause, whether it be gay rights or saving the whales. They just want to vandalize because they can.


Originally posted by mrstud
the reporters surrounding the hooligans are all liberal and are waiting to report on police violence. they are all on the protesters sides.

true, reporters all believe protesters have the right to protest and some will even defend their violence.

you guys think their would be this much violence in China without some type of protester extermination?? We in Canada are too generous to these pieces of dogshit.

Look at this nonsense they sprout!


ki3ClvFXahE

[97'Scort]

Originally posted by got_mike33


I completely agree with this.

Does anyone else remember when they held the G8 in Kaninaskis a while back (2002 I think)? Barely anything happened that week. There were a few, very peaceful protests in downtown Calgary. But none of this car burning, window smashing, hooliganism that is going on in Toronto.

The G8 had no problems. It was held in a sleepy little town last week and almost zero protestors showed up. The townspeople were actually disappointed because they were hoping the protestors would spend some money.

It's the G20 they moved to Toronto for, I guess to showcase the city. I think the real plan was that it would be more peaceful than G20 summits held elsewhere.

[ZorroAMG]

Damn. We looked so cool as a country during the olympics.

Now we look like all the other countries in North America.

PS that Asian broad holding up her stupid fucking peace signs through the broken glass made me angry. Punch her in the face angry.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Damn. We looked so cool as a country during the olympics.

Because there were no riots or vandalism at the olympics in Vancouver....:rofl: :rofl: :nut:
And 11 rcmp officers didn't get sent home for improper behavior, and non got caught shoplifting at winners....

I guess you can make up whatever image you want for yourself about how your country looks.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by kaput
From the clips I saw on CBC earlier this evening, it's time for the cops to put away their non-lethal weapons. These people are idiots and it would only benefit the world if they ceased to exist.

:werd: The minute that these "protests" turn violent the police/military should put a stop to these idiots. I suspect a few lethal force confrontations would get rid of the people that "just want to see what it's all about". Maybe some store owners will start taking out these retards.

[revelations]

Originally posted by mrstud
all the liberals who were crying at the security costs are all in lockdown with a white flags by their side to wave. jack layton is a pussy.


:werd:

Who is laughing now?

[LollerBrader]

Here's a video of particularly troublesome group of thugs getting their just desert.

They're lucky they weren't actually smashing any windows.




Heb9BXjYcII&feature=youtu.be

[911fever]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs


:werd: The minute that these "protests" turn violent the police/military should put a stop to these idiots. I suspect a few lethal force confrontations would get rid of the people that "just want to see what it's all about". Maybe some store owners will start taking out these retards.

Yeah imagine if you owned a store in downtown Toronto and someone smashed in your windows and caused thousands of damage? Especially in the name of peace? Violent protesters are retarded and hypocritical

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by 911fever


Yeah imagine if you owned a store in downtown Toronto and someone smashed in your windows and caused thousands of damage? Especially in the name of peace? Violent protesters are retarded and hypocritical


The police also bear their share of the blame for increasing the temperature by inserting provocateurs to incite violence.

I suspect the police are more interested in discrediting the contrary views than in keeping the peace.

Thankfully for them, there's dozens of stupid and angry kids willing to lend them a hand.

[rogerthat]

Originally posted by LollerBrader



The police also bear their share of the blame for increasing the temperature by inserting provocateurs to incite violence.

Cite a source or shut the fuck up. Are you typing that because you think you are intelligent?

Brb, going to buy a Starbucks to help pay for their broken window, and fill my tank with premium fuel.

[CUG]

Originally posted by LollerBrader
Here's a video of particularly troublesome group of thugs getting their just desert.

They're lucky they weren't actually smashing any windows.




Heb9BXjYcII&feature=youtu.be

I guess the protesters rugby Haka didn't afraid the police.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by Melinda

Sounds pretty brutal. Way to completely ruin it for people who were peacefully protesting this weekend you idiots.

What makes you think that those protesting peacefully have been treated any differently?

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by rogerthat


Cite a source or shut the fuck up. Are you typing that because you think you are intelligent?


Goodness gracious, you seem terribly angry

Should you choose to rephase your question in sufficiently civil tone, I will be happy to share.

[beyond_ban]

Originally posted by CUG


I guess the protesters rugby Haka didn't afraid the police.

Was it just me, or did anyone else notice the one cop try to hit the protester but miss and eat shit?

Best part of the video.

[flipstah]

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/9672/motivator2.jpg

[tentacles]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19928.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by LollerBrader



The police also bear their share of the blame for increasing the temperature by inserting provocateurs to incite violence.

I suspect the police are more interested in discrediting the contrary views than in keeping the peace.

Thankfully for them, there's dozens of stupid and angry kids willing to lend them a hand.

Really? I would suspect the police are much more interested in collecting a juicy pay cheque than discrediting any contrary view point.

I would be willing to bet for the most part the vast majority of the police task force could care less about anyones view points whatsoever.

And the statement about "inserting provocateurs" is just ignorant. Why on earth would they bother? There's more than enough "provocateurs" in the general protesting collective.

[revelations]

Originally posted by LollerBrader



The police also bear their share of the blame for increasing the temperature by inserting provocateurs to incite violence.

I suspect the police are more interested in discrediting the contrary views than in keeping the peace.

Thankfully for them, there's dozens of stupid and angry kids willing to lend them a hand.

While I am NOT saying this was the case here... the police in Quebec decided to do a little "rioting" back in 2007 during the Montebello Riots.

http://info-wars.org/2010/06/28/toronto-g20-riot-fraud-undercover-police-engaged-in-purposeful-provocation/

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by revelations


While I am NOT saying this was the case here... the police in Quebec decided to do a little "rioting" back in 2007 during the Montebello Riots.

http://info-wars.org/2010/06/28/toronto-g20-riot-fraud-undercover-police-engaged-in-purposeful-provocation/

Am I suprised the police had undercover officers posing as protestors? Uh nope. They wouldnt be doing a very good job if they didnt. I do however find it a stretch to believe these under cover officers had been instructed to insight violence and vandalism. I know the article states otherwise but I have to question the source. There's a whole lotta spin there lol.

[kaput]

.

[Shunsui]

I used to live in Toronto shame this shit's happening. By the way I heard cell phones were being jammed in certain areas downtown any truth to that? And I wonder how many of the protesters aren't even from Canada.

[ZenOps]

Posing as someone else to gain information on them.

Hmm... Sounds a lot like the Russian spies posing as Canadians in the US.

Thats illegal right? :dunno:

Double standards.

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by Modelexis


Because there were no riots or vandalism at the olympics in Vancouver....:rofl: :rofl: :nut:
And 11 rcmp officers didn't get sent home for improper behavior, and non got caught shoplifting at winners....

I guess you can make up whatever image you want for yourself about how your country looks.

Were you here? There were no blown up police cars, shielded police baton brigades or anything close to that.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Posing as someone else to gain information on them.

Hmm... Sounds a lot like the Russian spies posing as Canadians in the US.

Thats illegal right? :dunno:

Double standards.

Did the undercover officers who posed as protestors forge fedral documents such as birth certificates and passports? Uh nope. Did they view, copy, and re distribute confidential federal material? Uh nope. Did they dress in black and talk like a spoiled little bitch? Yup. Wow hard group to infiltrate lol!

In order for it to be a double standard the two situations have to be similar and in this case they're not even close:banghead: Keep grasping at straws!

[btimbit]

Should be zero tolerance for this BS. Protests, sure. Violent protests, hell no. Let the rubber bullets fly, cops aren't being tough enough.

And then these people cry about the corrupt government because they get there asses kicked by cops. Maybe next time listen when you're told to get back, and you won't catch a baton to the ribs. Morons.

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Did the undercover officers who posed as protestors forge fedral documents such as birth certificates and passports? Uh nope. Did they view, copy, and re distribute confidential federal material? Uh nope. Did they dress in black and talk like a spoiled little bitch? Yup. Wow hard group to infiltrate lol!

In order for it to be a double standard the two situations have to be similar and in this case they're not even close:banghead: Keep grasping at straws!

Ok, hows this one then.

Dress up in a fake police unform and go to jail, dress up as a protestor and its just another day.

Power abuse. Gestapo used these tactics to identify Jews too.

[DayGlow]

So any undercover operation is abuse of power?

[ZenOps]

When within the general populace - as assumed to be innocent first.

Yes, abuse of power.

I've actually got no problems with Russian spies in the US. or vice versa, or any nations actually. The US needs to have spies in North Korea, that is legitimate.

Now, the police *could* assume the role of spying into the general population - but Toronto is not North Korea by a longshot.

Just like there is reasonable search and seisure, there should be reasonable grounds for pre-emptive spying and impersonation, or its just Gestapo.

[The BMW Guy]

Originally posted by ZenOps


Ok, hows this one then.

Dress up in a fake police unform and go to jail, dress up as a protestor and its just another day.

Power abuse. Gestapo used these tactics to identify Jews too.

Of course your going to go to jail for dressing up as a cop.
It's not power abuse, it's common sense. How could a person dressing up as a fake cop be any good?

[ZenOps]

Its not as simple as that though. Police are not always good, protestors are not always bad.

IMO, I'm pretty sure Rob Anders was requested and spied on - to make sure he was not anywhere near the summit. I'm almost ashamed that noone called me up for that, lol.

Why? Because South Africa is of course a member. And Rob still has not apologized for calling their first black democratically elected president a "terrorist"

Is that reasonable cause for spying? I'd say yes - as he has taken a strong side that implies that he would possibly be militant. MP's are not always good either, just like Galloway (in the eyes of Canada at least)

Does a grandma who doesn't read the paper every day unknowingly walking her dog in the G20 yellow zone deserve to be spied on - NO. Especially not impersonated by a rabid police officer either (AKA Bloody Sunday)

There is an interesting little stipulation about spies in MI6, spies are never under any circumstances allowed to impersonate paramedics.

[iceburns288]

Originally posted by revelations
While I am NOT saying this was the case here... the police in Quebec decided to do a little "rioting" back in 2007 during the Montebello Riots.

http://info-wars.org/2010/06/28/toronto-g20-riot-fraud-undercover-police-engaged-in-purposeful-provocation/
I think this article is trying a little hard to incriminate the police (hah!). I know that Montreal eventually admitted to this, but the 'distinctive' yellow marks on the soles of the shoes are actually the Vibram logo, which is on any pair of shoes with a Vibram sole. Since Vibram makes the best sticky rubber sole, pretty much any good-quality boot will have this dot. I am wearing a pair of boots with Vibram soles right now. Hell, I have a friend who has sandals with Vibram soles and, thus, Vibram octagons.

After "Starbucks Vandalised" begins, the article gets too pointed for my taste. The guy in black being 'too fit' to be a normal person? wtf? The guy standing next to him looks to be of similar physique anyway.
The author of this article is looking into the boot situation without knowing much about boots, really. He brings up several times the 'newness,' if you will, of the boots in the included pictures. For one, I highly doubt the city of Toronto paid to have all its officers given new boots for G20. The more logical explanation is that the city of Toronto has a uniform policy, and the officers are required to keep their boots clean and shine them regularly.

I'm no ZenOps, but I admit the door is open to conspiracy with the TPS facing budget cuts; scenes such as these provide a foundation for TPS asking the city to keep their money. I just think that article was written pretty unprofessionally.
Also, and this is 100% unrelated, but I think it's weird he uses the British "vandalise" and the American "economize."

PS I wrote this in response to the full article here:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19928

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by ZenOps


Ok, hows this one then.

Dress up in a fake police unform and go to jail, dress up as a protestor and its just another day.

Power abuse. Gestapo used these tactics to identify Jews too.

Dude how do get anything done with that tin foil hat pulled down so tight lol!!!

Gestapo? Did you really? Did you really just compare the two? Please tell me you didnt. When people like you make the oh so easy "Nazi" analogy it makes me wish we could go back in time so you could see exactly how inappropriate it is.

If you don't see the difference between impersonating a police officer and impersonating a protestor then I'm not sure there's much more to discuss with you. You must live in a VERY interesting world lol.

Besides how do you know the officers were impersonating protestors? Maybe they just forgot their uniform and riot gear that day, and decided to dress like homeless, jobless members of society.

[iceburns288]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
Dude how do get anything done with that tin foil hat pulled down so tight lol!!!

Gestapo? Did you really? Did you really just compare the two? Please tell me you didnt. When people like you make the oh so easy "Nazi" analogy it makes me wish we could go back in time so you could see exactly how inappropriate it is.

If you don't see the difference between impersonating a police officer and impersonating a protestor then I'm not sure there's much more to discuss with you. You must live in a VERY interesting world lol.

Besides how do you know the officers were impersonating protestors? Maybe they just forgot their uniform and riot gear that day, and decided to dress like homeless, jobless members of society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
Haha, I've read the article before, but never noticed this in the text:

For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress.

[ZenOps]

Anyhow.

All this will be interesting when the G20 moves to South Korea, an active warzone.

The local Gestap.. oops I mean South Korean Police will then be in charge of "protection" for both the visiting dignitaries and the general population.

I can only hope that any North Korean sympathetic forces within the Gestap.. South Korean Police are uncovered by then.

[LollerBrader]

Wow. Two tidbits just in:

- Police have just admitted that they made up the "5 Meter" law they threatened people with:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/police-admit-deliberately-misleading-public-on-expanded-security-fence-law/article1622864/

- An account of detention conditions: Little food or water, no access to legal counsel.

http://lexgill.com/2010/06/28/urgent-conditions-at-629-eastern-ave-illegal-immoral-dangerous/


While Black-bloc hooligans seem to have been given great latitude in their spree of destruction, many innocents have been rounded up for simply being in the area. A lot of folks are going to leave those cells with a new view of their government.

This summit will really mark a significant loss of innocence for Canada.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Posing as someone else to gain information on them.

Hmm... Sounds a lot like the Russian spies posing as Canadians in the US.

Thats illegal right? :dunno:

Double standards.

Are you only educated up to a 13 year old comprehension level and stuck with the anarchists mindset?

[Tik-Tok]

Because you haven't already seen the other 3 G20 summit threads?

[vengie]

Anyone else want to create a "White bloc" and go beat the fuck out of every "Black bloc" member??

What a joke.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by vengie
Anyone else want to create a "White bloc" and go beat the fuck out of every "Black bloc" member??

What a joke.

I'm with you! I can get a few of my corporate buddies to join!

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Anyhow. Ya best to change the focus of the current discussion, it wasnt going very well for you lol


All this will be interesting when the G20 moves to South Korea, an active warzone.

The local Gestap.. oops I mean South Korean Police will then be in charge of "protection" for both the visiting dignitaries and the general population.

I can only hope that any North Korean sympathetic forces within the Gestap.. South Korean Police are uncovered by then.
I would LOVE to see some of the little punks that caused shit in Toronto go protest in S.K! they might sing a different tune about how the Canadian task force treated them lol. But we know they won't because it's not convenient. Funny how that works hey? It's a pretty important cause, unless it's not convenient, then not so much. That and the fact most of them couldnt afford a plane ticket!

[rx7_turbo2]

Seriously? This needed it's own thread? Somebody delete this please. Come post in the other thread if you wanna talk about this.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[403Gemini]

Isn't it mandatory that when you hit 18 you spend time in the military/police service in Korea? Their riot teams will shield slam your face into the pavement if you get close enough, so yeah, i'd love to see these type of "protests" fly in Korea...

Goto 2:43ish...

lgwlsbzf0KM

[alloroc]

Ban the troll.

Edit: ....

inhumanely

[rogerthat]

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/family/blog/baby-crying%20jpg.jpg

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by 403Gemini
Isn't it mandatory that when you hit 18 you spend time in the military/police service in Korea? Their riot teams will shield slam your face into the pavement if you get close enough, so yeah, i'd love to see these type of "protests" fly in Korea...

You are confusing a full blown riot with a peaceful protest including 10% or less causing vandalism.

No one was attacking the riot lines or police officers directly, it was property damage.

VERY different from that video you posted.
As the situation becomes severe and dangerous, the riot team steps up their force level, the video you posted was at maximum threat level, compared to the G20's VERY low threat level.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Modelexis


You are confusing a full blown riot with a peaceful protest including 10% or less causing vandalism.

No one was attacking the riot lines or police officers directly, it was property damage.

VERY different from that video you posted.
As the situation becomes severe and dangerous, the riot team steps up their force level, the video you posted was at maximum threat level, compared to the G20's VERY low threat level.

nOjGdvju-po

0:40

Yeah I bet that cop in that car didn't feel threatened at all... :rolleyes:

Fuck some of you are so dumb...

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Modelexis

No one was attacking the riot lines or police officers directly, it was property damage.


That's not true, not even remotely! Thank Gemini for owning you with a video.

And the logic that it's not as bad cause it was only property damage (which it wasnt anyways) is retarded! If I was a business owner whose property and livelyhood was threatened there would be no show of force to extreme. I'd be ok if the rubber bullets were exchanged with real ones!

[Hakkola]

http://www.movieline.com/2010/06/is-it-a-movie-or-is-it-toronto-5-insane-videos-from-the-g20-summit.php

A couple vids, hopefully not reposts.

[tentacles]

Vl_yUR8MNMM

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by 403Gemini

0:40

Yeah I bet that cop in that car didn't feel threatened at all... :rolleyes:

Fuck some of you are so dumb...

So feeling threatened is the same as a full blown riot where people are assaulting police?
It's not even in the same ballpark.
He was in the car, he didn't get a finger laid on him, not even the window broken on his door.
They spent a billion dollars on security, but this officer decided it would be a good idea to drive through the middle of a protest in a sealed car with glass surrounding him and no escape..... Great idea...

I'll break it down slightly, 'feeling threatened' IS NOT the same as 'being physically assaulted'.

You responded with sarcasm and hostility, I hope that after you read my explanation you will see that I have thought this through further than you had assumed.

You are comparing banging on the cop car to a full blown riot where protesters are challenging whole groups of riot police?

It's obvious why you're using offensive language to get your point across....


If I had a billion dollars to spend to secure one city block of Toronto, I bet I could do a better job, I bet it wouldn't be taken over by 10 teenagers with rocks.
I wouldn't have any cop cars driving around int he 'hostile' zones.

Seriously, 1 billion and not even enough money for a fire extinguisher?
1 Billion and all the business' are left to protect their own windows?
1000 police officers in full riot gear and they cannot handle 10 homeless teenagers with rocks?

Even P diddy has enough cash for a bullet proof benz, the cops spend a billion dollars and they drive a crown victoria into a crowd during a protest.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Modelexis


I'll break it down slightly, 'feeling threatened' IS NOT the same as 'being physically assaulted'.

I have no issue with it. If your stupid enough to "threaten" a police task force you deserve to get your skull beat in by said task force. That's reasonble in my opinion. Pretty simple cause and effect, if I don't want to be assaulted by police I shoudnt threaten them with assualt. Easy.



You are comparing banging on the cop car to a full blown riot where protesters are challenging whole groups of riot police?
Yup. You tell me how the police are supposed to anticipate that the group destroying property of both the public and private citizens won't then turn to take the police on full blown? Better to "nip it in the bud" before it's too late no?



Seriously, 1 billion and not even enough money for a fire extinguisher? Um I saw PLENTY of officers with fire extinguishers! And a couple fire trucks so.....


1000 police officers in full riot gear and they cannot handle 10 homeless teenagers with rocks?

Didnt look like "ten" to me. Then again it's clear people like you and I see things in a very different light. I'm confident in my ability to count and I'll go out on a limb and say there was many more than "ten"


Even P diddy has enough cash for a bullet proof benz, the cops spend a billion dollars and they drive a crown victoria into a crowd during a protest.

These statements drive me nuts!!!! Does that make it right? So if they lit a tank on fire that would be wrong? That's the threshold? Whether it's an armoured vehicle? Well it was an un armoured crown vic so it's ok they torched it! Dude what planet you live on?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by Modelexis


So feeling threatened is the same as a full blown riot where people are assaulting police?
It's not even in the same ballpark.
He was in the car, he didn't get a finger laid on him, not even the window broken on his door.
They spent a billion dollars on security, but this officer decided it would be a good idea to drive through the middle of a protest in a sealed car with glass surrounding him and no escape..... Great idea...

I'll break it down slightly, 'feeling threatened' IS NOT the same as 'being physically assaulted'.

You responded with sarcasm and hostility, I hope that after you read my explanation you will see that I have thought this through further than you had assumed.

You are comparing banging on the cop car to a full blown riot where protesters are challenging whole groups of riot police?

It's obvious why you're using offensive language to get your point across....


If I had a billion dollars to spend to secure one city block of Toronto, I bet I could do a better job, I bet it wouldn't be taken over by 10 teenagers with rocks.
I wouldn't have any cop cars driving around int he 'hostile' zones.

Seriously, 1 billion and not even enough money for a fire extinguisher?
1 Billion and all the business' are left to protect their own windows?
1000 police officers in full riot gear and they cannot handle 10 homeless teenagers with rocks?

Even P diddy has enough cash for a bullet proof benz, the cops spend a billion dollars and they drive a crown victoria into a crowd during a protest.

That car was part of a traffic point to direct traffic as part of the road closures from the fence. It wasn't there to deal with a riot. It's a short clip of the overall event. There others out there that show the windows being smashed while cops are in the car. Could have been a different one as this happenned on mulitiple blocks at the same time as the protest split into multiple groups going down different streets. You also have no clue about what it would feel like being surrounded by a hostile crowd. Those officers were in trouble and they did feel threatened.

The problem with this protest was that it was very fast moving and overwelmed the officers that were monitoring it. Since it was a peacful protest you don't roll riot police onto the street from the start. This was one of many demonstrations that happenned in the city at the same time. Bike cops and other uniform members were there to monitor it and when it turns hostile their first priority is making sure they are safe and they won't engage the crowd.

Also you have no clue what you are talking about. You don't send 10-20 or even a 100 officers running into a crowd of 10,000. The crowd control units move is slow processions taking control of city streets one foot at a time moving in a solid mass. That riot started and ended in just over an hour. In that time they moved the crowd and dispersed it over I believe 4 city blocks. You don't move unless you know that your sides are coverd and the rear is covered.

Don't try to be an expert about something you know fuck all about.

[911fever]

Originally posted by Modelexis


So feeling threatened is the same as a full blown riot where people are assaulting police?
It's not even in the same ballpark.
He was in the car, he didn't get a finger laid on him, not even the window broken on his door.
They spent a billion dollars on security, but this officer decided it would be a good idea to drive through the middle of a protest in a sealed car with glass surrounding him and no escape..... Great idea...

I'll break it down slightly, 'feeling threatened' IS NOT the same as 'being physically assaulted'.

You responded with sarcasm and hostility, I hope that after you read my explanation you will see that I have thought this through further than you had assumed.

You are comparing banging on the cop car to a full blown riot where protesters are challenging whole groups of riot police?

It's obvious why you're using offensive language to get your point across....


If I had a billion dollars to spend to secure one city block of Toronto, I bet I could do a better job, I bet it wouldn't be taken over by 10 teenagers with rocks.
I wouldn't have any cop cars driving around int he 'hostile' zones.

Seriously, 1 billion and not even enough money for a fire extinguisher?
1 Billion and all the business' are left to protect their own windows?
1000 police officers in full riot gear and they cannot handle 10 homeless teenagers with rocks?

Even P diddy has enough cash for a bullet proof benz, the cops spend a billion dollars and they drive a crown victoria into a crowd during a protest.

you're the biggest fool on beyond.ca in quite a long time. Very naive and very biased against the police for no reason.

[Modelexis]

Hey, don't get mad at me, I'm not the one that held the G20 downtown toronto and with unlimited funds lost control of several blocks for over an hour while teenagers with rocks made my 1000 strong police force look like a bunch of pussies.
So much hostility toward pointing out the security downtown was a complete fail, I'm not the one that spent all that money, and I'm also not the one that decided to provoke a riot.

Sugarphreak offers a straw man

911fever makes a hostile comment worth nothing

DayGlow tries to pretend the govt had no idea it was going to be out of control, good thing they didn't spend a billion before hand.
They didn't know it would be dangerous, that's why they didn't outfit 1000 officers in full riot gear weeks before the event....
You explain why it takes the riot team 10 weeks to secure 2 blocks, i understand that. I also understand that is a great indication of how effective 1 billion is in the hands of the police.

rx7_turbo2 didn't secure a single point.

[ZorroAMG]

Modelexis, you are a prime example of the education system failing someone. Even common sense seems to elude you.
Keep pretending you know what you are talking about, it's super entertaining.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Modelexis, you are a prime example of the education system failing someone. Even common sense seems to elude you.
Keep pretending you know what you are talking about, it's super entertaining.

Aren't you the one that thought the 2010 olympics had no riots?
Yup, I think that was you!

Also, Hostile personal attacks don't do anything to prove my points false.

Common sense, like not holding the g20 downtown toronto?

[LollerBrader]

Globe: ‘Weapons’ seized in G20 arrests not what they seem

"...in addition to the arrows – which Mr. Barrett made safe for live-action role playing by cutting off the pointy ends and attaching a bit of pool noodle covered in socks – police displayed his metal body armour, foam shields and several clubs made of plastic tubing covered with foam and fabric..."

"...Julian Falconer, a Toronto lawyer representing four independent journalists in summit-related police complaints, called the display of unrelated objects a “public-relations exercise [that] borders on the absurd.”.."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/weapons-seized-in-g20-arrests-put-on-display/article1622761/



(Cops are liars)

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by Modelexis


Aren't you the one that thought the 2010 olympics had no riots?
Yup, I think that was you!

Also, Hostile personal attacks don't do anything to prove my points false.

Common sense, like not holding the g20 downtown toronto?

Hostile attacks hey? Wow...you clearly have a firm grasp of written text.

As for the "riots" in Vancouver...show me a link of anything as harsh as the ones in TO....burning cop cars, please.

Either way, your position and arguments in this topic are ignorant and irrelevant....you completely miss the point about the absurd nature of these oxymoronic "peaceful protestors" you love and respect so much.

[mac_82]

The first part of this video gives a pretty good play-by-play of what the black bloc did on Saturday, and where they went.

p5G7aCgXtWg

[broken_legs]

yea yea... I know. It's "cool" to give up your civil liberties. People that complain about freedom, checks and balances, and abuses of the state are just hippies and conspiracy theorists...

Man I wish I could be part of the cool crowd. :thumbsdow

Canadian Civil Liberties Association
http://ccla.org/

Reading Material:
http://ccla.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/CCLA-G-20-INTERIM-REPORT-A-Breach-of-the-Peace-June-29-2010.pdf


Executive Summary of the CCLA Report on the G20 Protests


The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees everyone in Canada the right to freedom of expression and the right to peaceful assembly. It also guarantees the right of all persons to be free from arbitrary detention and unreasonable search and seizure. These constitutional liberties – and the limits they place on government and police – are the foundations of our free and democratic society. The G20 Summit did not authorize or warrant their suspension. Constitutional guarantees matter because, as is often said, without them, “even the most democratic society could all too easily fall prey to the abuses and excesses of a police state.”

It is the opinion of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association that police conduct during the G20 Summit was, at times, disproportionate, arbitrary and excessive. In our view, despite instances of commendable and professional conduct, the policing and security efforts, especially after 5PM on June 26 and June 27, failed to demonstrate commitment to Canada’s constitutional values.

The conditions for some of the policing problems that were experienced during the summit were set during the preparatory stage. This report outlines some of the issues that undermined the security efforts. For example, the lack of transparency surrounding the designation of the security perimeter as a “public work” led to misunderstandings as to the scope of search and seizure powers and, in our view, to an inappropriate use of the these powers. The large number of police officers during the week leading to the G20 generated both a suspicion of wasted resources and a sentiment of potential intimidation. June 26 represents a turning point. Widespread property damage was committed by a cohort of vandals in the downtown of Toronto on that day. We condemn this criminal activity and acknowledge that it warranted a response by police. The response which police provided, however, was unprecedented, disproportionate and, at times, unconstitutional.
Over the next 36 hours, over 900 people (possibly close to 1000) were arrested by police – the largest mass-arrest in Canadian history. Media, human rights monitors, protestors and passers-by were scooped up off the streets. Detained people were not allowed to speak to a lawyer or to their families. Arbitrary searches occurred in countless locations across the city, in many instances several kilometers from the G20 summit site. Peaceful protests were violently dispersed and force was used. In an effort to locate and disable 100-150 vandals, the police disregarded the constitutional rights of thousands.

In preparation for this report, the CCLA dispatched over 50 human rights monitors to make first-hand
observations of the police presence at G20-related demonstrations throughout the week. Our report chronicles the incidents that the CCLA’s human rights monitors witnessed throughout the summit and, where indicated, reports we have received from members of the public and have verified and found trustworthy. There are, of course, many examples of very competent and professional conduct on the part of police officers throughout the week which were noted by our monitors. We certainly acknowledge that the police faced a difficult task. Nonetheless, Canadians are entitled to policing that does not undermine constitutional values. Unfortunately, we consider that the abuses chronicled in this report exceed the threshold of a few isolated incidents. In our view, they represent instances of inappropriate policing that cannot simply be swept away as the G20 ends. They demand accountability.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Hey, don't get mad at me, I'm not the one that held the G20 downtown toronto and with unlimited funds lost control of several blocks for over an hour while teenagers with rocks made my 1000 strong police force look like a bunch of pussies.
So much hostility toward pointing out the security downtown was a complete fail, I'm not the one that spent all that money, and I'm also not the one that decided to provoke a riot.

Sugarphreak offers a straw man

911fever makes a hostile comment worth nothing

DayGlow tries to pretend the govt had no idea it was going to be out of control, good thing they didn't spend a billion before hand.
They didn't know it would be dangerous, that's why they didn't outfit 1000 officers in full riot gear weeks before the event....
You explain why it takes the riot team 10 weeks to secure 2 blocks, i understand that. I also understand that is a great indication of how effective 1 billion is in the hands of the police.

rx7_turbo2 didn't secure a single point.

Out of the 1 billion I believe it was around 100 to 150 million for the Metro police that had the outer fence and the surrounding area. That payed for wages, logistics, hotels and meals. That doesn't go as far as you would think. There wasn't 20,000 cops there, a total of 5000 for 24 hour coverage of the down town dedicated to the summit, so at any one time half would be off duty.

You have a down town core that is around 5 km square. Where do you position your crowd control units to properly cover the area? They were positioned at strategic locations to prevent any crowd from making it to the fence where things would have gotten even more out of control.

When this event occurred it took around 15 minutes to mobilize and coordinate a force large enough to properly contain the crowd. You can't have crowd control materialize out of thin air, they have to move across the DT core to where they are needed. During that time the main concern for the police is contain the crowd and protect themselves. The crowd never made it within a few blocks of the fence. Once it was contained it was moved back and dispersed. Again this takes time, you can't throw resources into the crowd hap-hazardly because all that would do is push it into side streets and around any force you have there.

All of this took over an hour to control the major disruption and then from there things were contained into the night. Compare that to the Summit Of The Americas where the protesters made it to the fence and the riot went on for hours into the night, or WTO meeting in Seattle where it took days to regain control of the city.

Or would you rather they sent the riot police into any protest as it appears and crushes it like a police state would?

Again you have no fucking clue what you are talking about and to rely on 5 second images from Youtube to get a grasp on the overall situation isn't going to work.

[DayGlow]

To me the biggest impression I got was Sunday evening when was helping patrol the downtown area and the people that actually live and work there were constantly stopping us and thanking us for what we did. This was these people's homes and lives, and they saw first hand what happened. They aren't civil liberties lawyers or university students that believe in idealistic causes. They run their stores and live in the area. We couldn't go 5 feet without being stopped to have someone shake our hand and thank us for everything we did. Cars driving by would honk and wave and shout thanks. That tells me something.

[Pahnda]

Jesus, from the interviews it seems like 90% of the people that got their ass baton-ed by the cops deserve it due to being fucking idiots. Case in point, the guy who said "I'm protesting the fact that the G20 is trying to solve problems they created"... (this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcXhEd_mDt4&feature=player_embedded)

I can't help but think, if these people REALLY wanted change, why the hell don't they WORK for it instead of just trashing windows, yelling at cops, and walking around holding signs? A lot of those people really need to get off their lazy asses and WORK towards what they want instead of yelling at people in the hopes that they will do it for them.

I'm fine with peaceful dissent, expressing to the leaders that the people are discontent... It's one thing you can do while you're on the journey working towards the change you want. But the vandalism and violence there just shows how stupid the population really is and why change won't happen and anyone defending that behaviour backs that notion up further.

EDIT: And I'm not defending the cops who did some assholish things. But really, what the hell do you expect them to do when people are being violent? And who cares if 10% of the protesters (or however many) ended up being violent or participating in vandalism. That's irrelevant, it's not like the police could detect who is potentially violent and who is not.

[JustGo]

I will never get arrested at a G20 summit.

That I can guarantee.

Because I don't wear home-made hats, I shower, and I don't stand where the police tell me not to stand.

I don't feel sorry for any of those 'innocent' people. If you don't want to get detained, don't go parading around your crap point of views that have as good of a chance at being heard as Hellen Keller.

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by ZenOps
When within the general populace - as assumed to be innocent first.

Yes, abuse of power.

I've actually got no problems with Russian spies in the US. or vice versa, or any nations actually. The US needs to have spies in North Korea, that is legitimate.

Now, the police *could* assume the role of spying into the general population - but Toronto is not North Korea by a longshot.

Just like there is reasonable search and seisure, there should be reasonable grounds for pre-emptive spying and impersonation, or its just Gestapo.


Around and around we go....

First you say that police going undercover is as bad as spying...but then you say spying is okay...so, by your logic, that mean that going undercover is now OK. Well, glad we cleared that up.

Zen, you have good points every so often, but where I tend to disagree with you is when you compare apples to oranges, just like cops going undercover to infiltrate the ignorant protestors.

You can't compare two different things and then extrapolate the outcomes to infinite ends to prove a point. It just doens't hold water.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Pahnda
Jesus, from the interviews it seems like 90% of the people that got their ass baton-ed by the cops deserve it due to being fucking idiots. Case in point, the guy who said "I'm protesting the fact that the G20 is trying to solve problems they created"... (this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcXhEd_mDt4&feature=player_embedded)

I can't help but think, if these people REALLY wanted change, why the hell don't they WORK for it instead of just trashing windows, yelling at cops, and walking around holding signs? A lot of those people really need to get off their lazy asses and WORK towards what they want instead of yelling at people in the hopes that they will do it for them.

I'm fine with peaceful dissent, expressing to the leaders that the people are discontent... It's one thing you can do while you're on the journey working towards the change you want. But the vandalism and violence there just shows how stupid the population really is and why change won't happen and anyone defending that behaviour backs that notion up further.


Shit forgot everything was black and white.

50 people break stuff for an hour and all 20,000 protesters are fucking idiot jobless losers.

Gotcha...

As far as "working towards change"

What exactly do you suggest people do to stop the global finance ministers from spending more money than it will take 4 generations to pay off in a few hours meeting?

What exactly do you suggest people do to stop the policies of the World Bank and the IMF?

What exactly do you suggest people do to make their voices heard when all the media does is cover the fact there were riots, and not even repeat their message?

Seems to me that protesting WHERE THE LEADERS ARE THAT MAKE THOSE DECISIONS is a pretty good idea. - Even if they were denied that right by the TO police who only set up designated protest areas so far away from the actual summit that the government leaders were perfectly insulated from having ot view any type of protest.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by DayGlow
Or would you rather they sent the riot police into any protest

I would rather they not hold g20 meetings in downtown Toronto.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by Pahnda
And who cares if 10% of the protesters (or however many) ended up being violent or participating in vandalism. That's irrelevant, it's not like the police could detect who is potentially violent and who is not.

Ummm... the ones dressed in black wearing kerchiefs over their faces?

[Pahnda]

Originally posted by broken_legs

Shit forgot everything was black and white.

50 people break stuff for an hour and all 20,000 protesters are fucking idiot jobless losers.

Gotcha...

As far as "working towards change"

What exactly do you suggest people do to stop the global finance ministers from spending more money than it will take 4 generations to pay off in a few hours meeting?

What exactly do you suggest people do to stop the policies of the World Bank and the IMF?

What exactly do you suggest people do to make their voices heard when all the media does is cover the fact there were riots, and not even repeat their message?

Seems to me that protesting WHERE THE LEADERS ARE THAT MAKE THOSE DECISIONS is a pretty good idea. - Even if they were denied that right by the TO police who only set up designated protest areas so far away from the actual summit that the government leaders were perfectly insulated from having ot view any type of protest.

Sorry, that message had no basis from what I wrote. It logically doesn't follow from anything I said.

Nowhere did I say that PROTESTING PEACEFULLY is bad... In fact I said "I'm fine with peaceful dissent". That means I approve of it, if you didn't know. I went on to say that it's something you can do WHILE you're working towards being able to actually change things.

Further, I did not say ALL protesters are "fucking idiot jobless losers"... I actually didn't mention if I think they have jobs or are 'losers' at all. Furthermore, ALL the protesters were not pushed/hit with batons/sprayed with pepper-spray. I even say (as a broad statement) 90% of that group, which wouldn't be ALL the protesters even in the case ALL of them were pushed/hit/sprayed by police.

I know you're probably emotional about this, but really, think rationally about it... Especially if you're going to argue about it.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Pahnda]

Originally posted by LollerBrader
Ummm... the ones dressed in black wearing kerchiefs over their faces?

So now you're saying that cops should take life as a game of counterstrike? Everyone and anyone is distinguishable by what they're wearing?

Who says some random person who is not dressed like that won't behave the same way?

EDIT: And if you were being sarcastic... touche...

[ZenOps]

Police should not be using the tactics of the people they are trying to arrest.

Next thing you know, a female police officer will be wearing a burka.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Pahnda


Sorry, that message had no basis from what I wrote. It logically doesn't follow from anything I said.

Nowhere did I say that PROTESTING PEACEFULLY is bad... In fact I said "I'm fine with peaceful dissent". That means I approve of it, if you didn't know. I went on to say that it's something you can do WHILE you're working towards being able to actually change things.

Further, I did not say ALL protesters are "fucking idiot jobless losers"... I actually didn't mention if I think they have jobs or are 'losers' at all. Furthermore, ALL the protesters were not pushed/hit with batons/sprayed with pepper-spray. I even say (as a broad statement) 90% of that group, which wouldn't be ALL the protesters even in the case ALL of them were pushed/hit/sprayed by police.

I know you're probably emotional about this, but really, think rationally about it... Especially if you're going to argue about it.

1.) Your ninja edit clearly changed the overall tone of your post.

But here's some select quotes in order that I believe makes your feelings pretty clear:


90% of the people... fucking idiots... those people really need to get off their lazy asses and WORK...

^^^ Really hard to see where I got that idea.

Especially when you are making assumptions like:


I can't help but think, if these people REALLY wanted change, why the hell don't they WORK for it instead of just trashing windows, yelling at cops, and walking around holding signs? A lot of those people really need to get off their lazy asses and WORK towards what they want instead of yelling at people in the hopes that they will do it for them.


^^^ So here you are saying the people that 'really want change' are the ones that are breaking stuff.

You are also saying that they are walking around yelling at cops and holding signs (which 99% of peaceful protesters do too)

I think you're actually confused about what you meant when you wrote your post. Maybe you should check your own emotions before trying to have a logical discussion.

[Modelexis]

Dayglow, it's obvious that you're going to back the police and govt no matter what, and I understand that you're highly invested in your views. I understand that you have devoted your life to a view and I also can only imagine how hard it would be to see another view.

The only thing I can see us agreeing on would be the notion that it was a horrible idea to hold the G20 downtown Toronto.
Hopefully you can at least agree with that.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Dayglow, it's obvious that you're going to back the police and govt no matter what, and I understand that you're highly invested in your views. I understand that you have devoted your life to a view and I also can only imagine how hard it would be to see another view.

The only thing I can see us agreeing on would be the notion that it was a horrible idea to hold the G20 downtown Toronto.
Hopefully you can at least agree with that.

The reason DayGlow is hating on you is because you are saying retarded shit.

ie - A billion dollars on security can't stop people from breaking stuff. No amount of money can. It's idiotic to think that you can control the actions of every single person at every moment.

The cop in the car getting attacked by protestors was not feeling threatened.

etc... etc..

As far as the rest of the stuff you're saying i can't comment because its all over the place.