Rental car accident claim - help needed

[SigmaRacing]

My relatives from over seas rented a car in Vancouver and drove to Edmonton. They took all of the coverage offered by budget rent a car including the loss damage waiver, the third party liability, and the personal coverage as well. Yesterday morning, they were in an accident in Edmonton where the cop gave them a red light ticket. Now budget is saying they're not covered and wants $40,000 for replacement of the car. Then, without calling my relatives, Budget started billing their visa ten grand in small transactions. Where do we stand here, doesn't the insurance purchased cover my relatives?

[BlackArcher101]

We'd have to see a copy of the agreement to provide a proper answer. More specifically what it says regarding at-fault accidents or misuse of a vehicle and what constitutes misuse.

[SigmaRacing]

Called Budget about this, they said the entire text of the agreement is on the back of the rental form, no ammendments or referrals to other policy documents. The loss damage waiver says they're covered for accidents with a deductible of $300 but has some conditions where the LDW is nullified.

1. Use of the vehicle in violation of the law.
2. Use of the vehicle outside of the contract period.
3. Any driver other those registered at the time of rental.
4. Damage due to narrow openings or low ceilings.
5. Damage to interior.

[JordanAndrew]

Originally posted by SigmaRacing
My relatives from over seas rented a car in Vancouver and drove to Edmonton. They took all of the coverage offered by budget rent a car including the loss damage waiver, the third party liability, and the personal coverage as well. Yesterday morning, they were in an accident in Edmonton where the cop gave them a RED LIGHT TICKET. Now budget is saying they're not covered and wants $40,000 for replacement of the car. Then, without calling my relatives, Budget started billing their visa ten grand in small transactions. Where do we stand here, doesn't the insurance purchased cover my relatives?


Originally posted by SigmaRacing
Called Budget about this, they said the entire text of the agreement is on the back of the rental form, no ammendments or referrals to other policy documents. The loss damage waiver says they're covered for accidents with a deductible of $300 but has some conditions where the LDW is nullified.

1. USE OF THE VEHICLE IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW.
2. Use of the vehicle outside of the contract period.
3. Any driver other those registered at the time of rental.
4. Damage due to narrow openings or low ceilings.
5. Damage to interior.

That's pretty straight forward that right now your relatives are on the hook because they violated the law by running a red light. I'm guessing the best way to get out of this is to get that red light ticket tossed so Budget can't win. Otherwise I think your relatives are on the hook unless their own insurance company/credit card covers this sort of thing.

[Neil4Speed]

Do be sure to check if their own insurance policy covers them for rental cars as some do.

[TomcoPDR]

Did they rent it from Vancouver airport?

[ExtraSlow]

I think it's pretty standard that the rental insurance doesn't cover you if you get a ticket for the action that causes the accident.

[Vanner]

Man , that bites in! It sounds to me like that all car rental companies are covering their asses real good. I don't see how these people can get out with the red light ticket and that accident in Edmonton. I doubt any judge can overlook that ticket at all.

Especially when it is the cop there who did the writing on ticket and good guess the cop also did the document of the accident with photos and witnesses (if there are any!).

It's a lock-down iron-clad case closed! Sorry but that's the hard fact and reality surely BITES!

[shynepho]

I was under the assumption that if you agree to pay for the addtional coverage, that you are then covered in the event of an accident. I thought the whole point of the extra insurance is that your own premium wont increase in the event you were to get into an accident on your trip? Even if it is your fault.

[Cos]

wow i didnt know this

[Weapon_R]

No, it's not an iron-clad issue. The contract cannot override Alberta statutory conditions imposed on insurance carriers. Since the accident happened in Alberta, the laws of Alberta govern and insurers cannot deny coverage for running a red light.

Contact a lawyer and they will be able to sort this issue out for you pretty easily. Or, you can call the superintendent of insurance in Alberta and let them know what's going on, and they should be able to help you out.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally posted by shynepho
I was under the assumption that if you agree to pay for the addtional coverage, that you are then covered in the event of an accident. I thought the whole point of the extra insurance is that your own premium wont increase in the event you were to get into an accident on your trip? Even if it is your fault.

Not so, because then people will still rent cars and go for joyrides in them. There must be a penalty of some kind if you are in the accident as a result of breaking the law or abuse of the car/privleges.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by BlackArcher101


Not so, because then people will still rent cars and go for joyrides in them. There must be a penalty of some kind if you are in the accident as a result of breaking the law or abuse of the car/privleges.

Probably pre-arranged, but :rofl:
http://imcdb.org/images/027/499.jpg

[Ruggzy_McTuggz]

"1. Use of the vehicle in violation of the law.
2. Use of the vehicle outside of the contract period.
3. Any driver other those registered at the time of rental.
4. Damage due to narrow openings or low ceilings.
5. Damage to interior"

#1 would not apply. That exclusion is meant to ensure that they would not be responsible for damages if you were to say be taking part in a street race, running drugs, or driving under the influence.

Don't bother with a lawyer, anyone who has been in insurance for more than a month can tell you that budget is pulling a fast one.

Call the superintendent as was stated by weapon R

If their insurance company tries to deny coverage sue the fuckers for acting in bad faith. Bad faith cases can result in some major penalties

[SigmaRacing]

Yeah the car was rented at the Vancouver airport. Thanks for all the feedback, we'll call the superintendent tomorrow and see what happens. I called a traffic lawyer and they said something similar about #1. They said that it was meant to cover situations like DUI where you act in violation of the law. Missing a light, in her opinion, did not constitute a scenario under which point one could be applied in civil court....still, would like to avoid dragging this out to a lawsuit...

[BlackArcher101]

Here is what the budget.com master rental agreement states:
https://www.budget.com/budgetWeb/html/en/profile/master_printable.html


9. Prohibited Use of the Car

Certain uses of the car and other things you or a driver may do, or fail to do, will violate this Agreement.....

It is a violation of this paragraph if:

A. You use or permit the car to be used: 6) for conduct that could properly be charged as a felony or misdemeanor, including the transportation of a controlled substance or contraband;

This is the closest thing that could terminate the Loss Damage Waiver. It appears the intent is to prevent criminal use of the vehicle as other posters touched on. Felony and misdemeanor are American terms, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say a red light ticket isn't the canadian severity equivalent to either of these.

Interestingly enough, I had no idea the agreement is void if you drive the car on unpaved roads. I'll have to keep that mind next time I do some backroad driving.

[Vanner]

Hmm, you might have something to discard the red light ticket out of your case. But then there is the other matter...

What of about the damage on this rental car? You said it was in an accident - how really bad was the car? A total write off, right?

Looks to me like Budget is trying to recover the cost of a new replacement from your relatives for this reason. Yeah, you should talk with your legal adviser to get the exact information and to get out of the $40k charge.

Good luck on your success if possible!

[Kloubek]

If someone causes an accident, aren't they ALWAYS doing something which is "against the law"? Red light, unsafe lane change, etc etc etc.

If they were driving 100% inside the rules of the road, an accident would not have occured... unless it was caused by someone else, in which case they would be covered anyway.

Am I the only one who thinks this "extra coverage" is beginning to look like one huge scam?

[lilmira]

Ha, that's stupid. Unless they have evidence that shows the accident is caused by them running the red light intentionally knowing full well it would cause such accident, it may work, such as suicide.

How about the car getting stolen when the parking meter is expired, are they going to deny cover too?

Tell them to send you a formal letter explaining the denial to coverage for record then raise hell.

[CUG]

I hope the OP updates us on this. I'm not EVER using budget car rental ever again for anything. I can't believe they did this to your family.

They were not acting in good faith.

Do you have the contact information for the people at budget who did this?

[SigmaRacing]

No major new details this morning, my relatives have locked down their credit card so that no more withdrawals can be made and now the Amex fraud department has been advised that these debits were unauthorized. The car is definitely not a write off, the tow truck company actually drove it away from the scene to the impound lot. We went to the impound to check it out and it needs some body work but for sure its not replacement value type damage. Have had a hard time getting through to the right people in the budget claims department, still calling them throughout the day. Budget at the Vancouver airport is no longer taking our calls. Shady....

[CUG]

I'm going to phone them. I'm writing up quotes today anyways.

[vengie]

Wow, this sounds extremely shady... Sub'd for outcome!

Good luck OP

[bignerd]

Did you take pictures of the car? You may not get to see it again so hope you took lots.

[Ruggzy_McTuggz]

Originally posted by Vanner
Hmm, you might have something to discard the red light ticket out of your case. But then there is the other matter...

What of about the damage on this rental car? You said it was in an accident - how really bad was the car? A total write off, right?

Looks to me like Budget is trying to recover the cost of a new replacement from your relatives for this reason. Yeah, you should talk with your legal adviser to get the exact information and to get out of the $40k charge.

Good luck on your success if possible!

They Insure their fleet of vehicles. They will recover the damages from their Insurance company. By collecting from the renter they are profiting from the loss.

Again, if they do not cover the loss and continue to invoice for damages file a lawsuit for bad faith. Claims for bad faith can result in hefty punitive damages.

[SigmaRacing]

Yeah, there are lots of pictures from the accident. The problem with fighting a law suit is that they can't stick around for six months waiting for a court date. They'll have to go home in a week or so...

[bignerd]

IF there is a lawsuit. I am sure Budget has some sort of policy to immeadiatley deny the claim, regardless of how it happened and start to collect as much money as they can..... kind of like that Matt Damon movie about the life insurance, just deny every claim and see how many people go away or pay up.

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by Ruggzy_McTuggz
They Insure their fleet of vehicles. They will recover the damages from their Insurance company. By collecting from the renter they are profiting from the loss. They might self-insure. Lots of big companies do it that way. Then it would be okay for them to be suing and not subrogating the claim to an insurer.

Are you saying that you know that they don't self-insure?

OP: Are you sure they're denying based on the red-light ticket? If not, does the rental/insurance agreement prohibit use outside of the province it was rented in? I've seen insurance denied on that basis before, but IIRC, on an Ontario car taken out of that province.

Edit: Hmmm... It looks like Budget franchisees are each responsible for insuring their own fleets - that makes it unlikely that they self-insure. They're probably trying to get the money from the parents in order to avoid making a claim, and to make more profit.

I found a recent article talking about complaints about Budget in BC:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/02/08/bc-budgetbill.html

[911fever]

unbelievable, I never knew this

[thetransporter]

Ismaili owned budged in Calgary tried to pull something like that on us. We just disputed the 20k they charged our Amex. We showed amex we got their insurance. Amex in India really didnt care about Ismaili owned Calgary Budget rent a car

[BlackArcher101]

Originally posted by thetransporter
Ismaili owned budged in Calgary tried to pull something like that on us. We just disputed the 20k they charged our Amex. We showed amex we got their insurance. Amex in India really didnt care about Ismaili owned Calgary Budget rent a car

:confused:

[Barlow]

it might have something to do with them bweing out of province.

I know when ever i got my rental, I agreed not to drive it outside the city more then 11 km's.


Check for that, if they signed, they may be hooched.


Barlow

[broken_legs]

an idea

most credit card companies offer car rental insurance as a part of the card holder agreement. Usually this is for any premium card that you have to pay a fee for.

ie Travel Rewards Visa, American Express, etc...

I would check with the CC company to see if your family isn't covered there too. As long as they used said credit card to pay for the rental, they should be covered.

Hope that helps.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Barlow
it might have something to do with them bweing out of province.

I know when ever i got my rental, I agreed not to drive it outside the city more then 11 km's.


Check for that, if they signed, they may be hooched.


Barlow

I second this... I've rented vehicles a few times where I signed something saying I also wouldn't take it out of the province.

There's a chance that by taking it out it may have been considered theft?

[SigmaRacing]

Update:

Sorry, was out of town for a while and didn't get around to updating this thread. Rental agreement was set up for out of province use, they rented the vehicle specifically to travel from Vancouver to Edmonton and back.

In the end, after endless attempts to reach a live person at the Vancouver airport branch of budget, no one ever answered our calls or returned our messages. We even called another branch of budget and had the manager there call over to the airport branch to try to make contact...no luck. Same with the claims department number we were given, never got live contact. Given that, when their trip was up, my relatives headed home as scheduled.

After the 14 day window passed where Budget was required to show the credit card company the supporting documents behind the charges, the credit card company reversed the transactions since Budget failed to prove they were authorized. Through all of this, I learned that each Budget location is completely independent of the others with little or no oversight from the parent company. Choose your branch carefully if you rent from them...

[ElMaestroTaco]

Budget is bullshit....we rented a truck in Toronto and one of the doors wouldn't open, we then informed the person and he gave us a new car to rent and didn't even document the damage! :whipped: