Your Views On Religion? (big merged thread)

[Skyline_Addict]

I'm just wondering; what do you guys think religion REALLY is?
The existence of God and most, if not all things under the pretense of such cannot be scientifically proven. So, a question begs - is religion a form of compliance which people created to answer or object to the many unanswered questions in life? So they could find solace in what they were to believe? Or, was religion based on something that was to believed because it is true (yet vastly unproven these days)?
The most proclaimed question related to religion is life after death. Alot of the different religions have very different views on what happens after we die. This is the question that most people find "answered" when they have faith.
My best friend is a Christian so I go along with her to Church and fellowship sometimes. I find that it's a good way to spend time with her and meet new friends, but as stubborn as I am, I can never be convinced so easily.

So, what're your guys' views on religion and the like (i.e: after life, what happens if you don't declare your faith, etc.)?
I'm just wondering because it's kind of confusing sometimes. And during times that I am going through hard and questionable periods, I don't know what to believe.
Oh, and one more thing:
http://www.boomspeed.com/stryker09/academic_guidance.jpg
:D

[Ben]

I believe my own beliefs, and dont need someone else telling me how to live.

[B17a]

Sometimes I wonder what its worth. Religion has probably resulted in more wars and death than any other man-made reason.

[Weapon_R]

I find it almost impossible for anyone to have no faith in some kind of supernatural being out there. For what its worth, something had to exist before us that we won't ever understand for everything around us to exist.

I also find it hard to believe the "I know whats right and wrong" argument. If God wanted it like that, he wouldn't have wasted his time making several holy books with the same essential message for thousands of years.

[EK 2.0]

Religion...

IMO was created to instill fear in those who would succumb to those who lead...Instilling the fear of God (no matter who or what he/she is)...Whether is it Jesus, Allah, Bhagvan, Ganesh, Guru Nanak, the Torah, Budda, Shinto, Taoism...or whatever you heart may beleive...If you sit and take apart all world's major relgions...They all try to strive for one goal..."Oneness" with God...Acheiving Spiritual Enlightenment...They all go about it in different methods...Prayers and practices are different...but, the destination...the same...To hang with God right??...

Also...who is to say what relgion is right...I am a Muslim and am told that Islam is the way to go...But Christian and Catholic friends are told the same thing about thier religion...so...if you are doing what you beleive, and are doing it with all your heart...no matter who you pray to...or dont pray to is kosher...

As for the "afterlife"?? That is what you and only you can beleive in...everyone's idea, no matter what relgion, of "heaven" will be different or non-existant...so that is in the eye of the beleiver...


My $.02...


Arif

[/////AMG]

Originally posted by Ben
I believe my own beliefs, and dont need someone else telling me how to live.


BANG! Right on.

Don't start saying shit but in MY OPINION. I hate it when people come up to you and try to convert you and a simple "no thanks" doesn't turn them away.:guns: :guns: :guns:

[rc2002]

Pascal's Wager:

Pascal's Wager can be presented in many different forms, usually something like this:

"If you believe, and God exists, you gain everything. If you disbelieve, and God exists, you lose everything."
Alternatively :

"It makes more sense to believe in God than to not believe. If you believe, and God exists, you will be rewarded in the afterlife. If you do not believe, and He exists, you will be punished for your disbelief. If He does not exist, you have lost nothing either way. "

It amounts to hedging your bets.


more here: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/

[1badPT]

Heh, I guess I thought my beliefs were more popular than they actually are.

I would be described by my peers as "atheist". Just so you are aware, that is not a lack of a belief in a supreme being, rather its a firm belief that there isn't a supreme being (aka god) or an afterlife.

Having said that, it's my opinion that religion is important to everyone. Whether its due to the order it puts in some people's lives, or the strength people gain from it emotionally, or even if its the traditions that help keep you close to the ones you love. Sure people have died because of a difference of beliefs, but I wouldn't fault religion for that. People will always disagree, and people will always fight, and there will always be those who die as a result.

[thich]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
I find it almost impossible for anyone to have no faith in some kind of supernatural being out there.

:werd:
I am Asian and I am a Christian.
Most people I've met acknowledge there is some sort of supernatural being - for Vietnamese ppl, we call him "heaven" (Thiên/Trời); as do Chinese ppl I think (T'ien?).

I became Christian after my own choice to do so and haven't turned back since.
The Afterlife for a Christian is one of two things: Heaven or Hell.
Heaven for me means complete freedom; Hell means eternally separation from God.


The most proclaimed question related to religion is life after death. Alot of the different religions have very different views on what happens after we die. This is the question that most people find "answered" when they have faith.

I would probably agree with this statement but I don't think I necessarily agree that you have to have faith to have this question answered. Here's my reasoning:
Most people are scared of dying. Why is this so?
If there is no life after death.. why should we be worried?
If there was no life after death, we have absolutely no reason to fear death - but a majority of people do.
Why is this? Because we have some preconceived notion that maybe just maybe there is something that we don't know about that exists past what we currently know.

I didn't even need to have faith to look at life after death in that way.

Asians are terrified of death - haven't met an Asian who wasn't yet. :tongue:

What I find interesting is that if most religions share this same concept of life after death (a heaven and hell complex); and if archaeology is correct in that people originated from the Middle East (Mesopotamia); then one point or another in history, there was a universal consensus of what really does happen after death.

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
I find it almost impossible for anyone to have no faith in some kind of supernatural being out there. For what its worth, something had to exist before us that we won't ever understand for everything around us to exist.


Actually, I'm one of those people who has no faith of any kind of supernatural being out there.

Religion doesn't do anything for me. That doesn't mean I'm close minded or anything. I have a lot of respect for other people's belief systems (in some cases, I find it very fascinating), but I'm not a religious person whatsoever. I was registered in a religious studies course over the spring, and an hour into the class, I walked out, because I couldn't buy into anything the lecturer was saying.

For me, I'm one of those type of people that believes there's a scientific explanation for everything. Maybe we don't have a scientific explanation for many things, but that's just because we haven't discovered it yet.

I can respect if a person is religious and everything, but I hate it when people try and convert me or try and get me to change my views to agree with theirs.

[three.eighteen.]

religion is an explanation for the unexplainable, and therefore only an answer to those who seek an answer to the unexplainable

i dont care where the universe came from, i care about the people around me, the world around me, im positive there is a higher power at work but i don't need a church to validate my acknowledgement of that higher power...i feel that my conscience is enough of a guide to right and wrong, this is how god talks to me

real religions in the world create categories and denominations of people, which defeats the uniting purpose of religion IMO

religion is most definetly not a bad thing though, it helps people through unimaginable adversity, it is a strength to draw on, perhaps my life just hasnt been under enough fire to justify seeking the refuge of organized religion...but for those who have...more power to them

it doesnt matter what you believe in, as long as you don't lie to yourself about your beliefs and are a fundamentally good person, i would assume a happy afterlife awaits

[cobber112879]

No two people in the world will have the same opinion on religion. Real tough to have civil conversation on this topic. Each and everyone has a valid point.

[rx7girlie]

Originally posted by three.eighteen.
religion is an explanation for the unexplainable, and therefore only an answer to those who seek an answer to the unexplainable

Agreed! Plus, to add on, religion stems rom teachings of men who wanted to lead people to spirituality and learn moral good. So really, the fundamentals of religions are the same. Off point a bit, Catholics (and Chrisitians) take it a bit further because of God's Revelation in the form of Jesus Christ .. so these groups are "more correct".


i dont care where the universe came from, i care about the people around me, the world around me, im positive there is a higher power at work but i don't need a church to validate my acknowledgement of that higher power...i feel that my conscience is enough of a guide to right and wrong, this is how god talks to me

Also well put. But, I don't think people should conflate the word Church with God which seems ALOT of people do. The Church is a man made organization that is prone to human error unfortunately, but if you are aware of some of the work leaders like John Paul II try to do, I give the Church a thumbs up to some degree. Also, when it comes to Origins debate, it's not relevant what actually happen (imo), but the fact that it's a work of God.


religion is most definetly not a bad thing though, it helps people through unimaginable adversity, it is a strength to draw on, perhaps my life just hasnt been under enough fire to justify seeking the refuge of organized religion...but for those who have...more power to them

Either or is true. Seems like people who haven't had anything to change their views can change, but notice how those how have a life altering incidence and do turn to God, never turn back?


it doesnt matter what you believe in, as long as you don't lie to yourself about your beliefs and are a fundamentally good person, i would assume a happy afterlife awaits

:thumbsup: So well put, I agree 100%. This quote also goes in reference to "Pascal's Wager". So what if you are a good person, do not believe in God - what then? Will God condemn you? I think not. What matter's is what is in you heart. I know many people who are such keen Church-goers, or simply "religious" people who are nothing but hypocrites the moment they step out of a Church, so will going to Church weekly put them in better light in God's eyes? No.

I believe in an afterlife, both Heaven and Hell. How one goes to either or? That's for God to decide and I like to hide behind the word mystery in issues like that.:dunno:

[James]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz


Actually, I'm one of those people who has no faith of any kind of supernatural being out there.

Religion doesn't do anything for me. That doesn't mean I'm close minded or anything. I have a lot of respect for other people's belief systems (in some cases, I find it very fascinating), but I'm not a religious person whatsoever.
For me, I'm one of those type of people that believes there's a scientific explanation for everything. Maybe we don't have a scientific explanation for many things, but that's just because we haven't discovered it yet.

I can respect if a person is religious and everything, but I hate it when people try and convert me or try and get me to change my views to agree with theirs.


Damn, those are pretty much exactly my views!....my parents are Catholic, and up until grade 3 i went to a catholic school, and beleived in God .When i moved to Calgary, my parents put us in public schools for various reasons....then came along Junior high science and all my views were changed with Fact that was alot more solid then anything i had ever heard in Church. I have had ALOT of heated arguements with some friends of mine who are Christian, based on the fact of how earth was created and the timeframe of the Bible etc..., which from a Scientific point of view is pretty messed up.

[Skyline_Addict]

it doesnt matter what you believe in, as long as you don't lie to yourself about your beliefs and are a fundamentally good person, i would assume a happy afterlife awaits


So well put, I agree 100%. This quote also goes in reference to "Pascal's Wager". So what if you are a good person, do not believe in God - what then? Will God condemn you? I think not. What matter's is what is in you heart. I know many people who are such keen Church-goers, or simply "religious" people who are nothing but hypocrites the moment they step out of a Church, so will going to Church weekly put them in better light in God's eyes? No.

You guys have hit on a conjunction - probably the only thing that causes me unrest regarding religions of the "Heaven-Hell" nature. I know many people who are not religious or in this case, I will use Christianity as an example. They are good people, many of them great people. I know a handful of people who call themselves Christians but are sly, hypocritical and heartless people. One thing when it comes to Christianity, that I cannot come to terms with is your "judgement" after life. Going to church every week and having weekly fellowship might make you a textbook Christian, but it doesn't make you a good person. If being a good Christian sends you to heaven....then I know alot of good people who won't make it, and alot of bad people who don't deserve to go. If being a good person sends you to heaven....then, that makes a little more sense to me. But, this brings me to another question.
In the case of Christianity, does "accepting Christ" make you a good person or a good Christian....or does it do both....or does it even matter?

[rx7girlie]

Originally posted by James
I have had ALOT of heated arguements with some friends of mine who are Christian, based on the fact of how earth was created and the timeframe of the Bible etc..., which from a Scientific point of view is pretty messed up.

You have to move past the archaic Warfare - Conflict Model in the Science Religion Dialogue. Seriously, who still holds this point of view??

Quote from John Paul II

"Any other teaching about the origin and makeup of the universe is alien to the intentions of the Bible, which does not wish to teach how heaven was made but how one goes to heaven"

That is, the Bible is NOT a scientific textbook, it's a book about Salvation. The ancient writers where writing to affirm their beliefs in an the Ultimate Creator!

But that is a whole nother topic!!

[Primer_Drift]

IMO
Newage religion (ie modern catholasism [sp]) is a tool to control the masses through institution and community. Old religions used to focus on more negative aspects like fear, and oppression.

Faith, in whatever form does not require a distinct religion, it is a part of the guiding principle we each define for our lives. There is no right or wrong faith, because they are based on the same fundamental human needs. It deeply disturbs me to see people so dedicated to what they have been told (Religion), that they feel it is wrong to question it.
I belong to no religion, I have no distinct god, but I have faith and thats all that matters to me.

[hjr]

Originally posted by Primer_Drift
New age religion (ie modern catholasism [sp]) is a tool to control the masses through institution and community. Old religions used to focus on more negative aspects like fear, and oppression. Personally i think religion was used from the begining to control the masses. Do you thinkg that India is still a caste system by accident? not at all. Hinduism is very much a part of that. They believe if they are good in thier life, they will be rewarded in the next life (they will move up the cast until supreme enlightenment is reached). Therefor there they dont try moving up the social ladder (or breaking it down) in their life time.

But as for faith, i think its good to have something to believe in. It is often most usefull when its needed the most, someone is in a bad way and their faith in "GOD" pulls them though.

[fast_cars]

my belief is my own..its not a thing that can be imposed on...
:thumbsup:

[tegdream]

man i have so much to say about this, just too lazy to type

I believe religion gives purpose to an otherwise unfulfiling life (why am i here? ) kinda questions, all goes by your own beliefs in the first plaace though, dont wanna agree or disagree with anybody~

[FiveFreshFish]

Religion is the root to much of the evil we see in this world. That is all.

[tegdream]

it is also the root of sense of belonging in causing these wars whihc arent al ways a bad thing...ahem oil ahem

[04blackMAX]

this is a thread that will go on and on, religion is the worst topic to get people on......i personally dont go to church, nor would i ever wanna, i dont pray, i dont really do anyting, but be a decent person, i think church and praying is a crutch but thats just me, some people need something to belive in to motivate them day to day i dont know........nor do i really care!!

[Khyron]

Most people I know don't believe in some almighty being that gives a shit if you pass a final or not. Do I care about the ants in the ant hill as I crush them under my boot heel? No.

However, having recently had a death in the familly, I can understand the appeal of religion and faith. So whatever gets you through the day.

Khyron

[thich]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
In the case of Christianity, does "accepting Christ" make you a good person or a good Christian....or does it do both....or does it even matter?

it doesn't make you either.
there is no such thing as a "good person" or a "good Christian" if you are comparing it to an objective standard measured by God.
The bible clearly states that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God culminating into an ultimate consequence of eternal separation from God.
This means that even if you lived a good life... just ONE little wrong thing you did that does not reflect God's standards is enough to separate you from a Pure and Good God.
So God needed something or someone else to be the atoning sacrifice in order for mankind to be able to come to Him without any barriers. Hence Jesus Christ the sinless atonement.
This is the reason why Catholics and Protestants believe in Jesus Christ - He is the redeemer.

What accepting Christ does is not make you a "good" person... accepting Christ is your admission to God that you are a person who is less than perfect and needs the grace and redemption of the Perfect Being.
It opens the door for you to be able to come closer to God because now there is something else that has taken over the place of your "impurity".

Just because you go to church doesn't make you a Christian, and I think you understand this very well - it's the acceptance of Christ's redemption on your part that makes you a Christian.
Granted that not all Christians are good and not all non-Christians are bad... but it's not the good/bad part that God cares about b/c He knows no one can stand up to His measures of "goodness" (ie. absolutely no sin).
Being able to say that yes you admit Christ's sovereignty in your life sets you aside into one of either two groups: those for God and those who would rather not have anything to do with Him.


Religion is the root to much of the evil we see in this world. That is all.

I don't see that is true; sure there may have been many conflicts that may have included "religious" aspects but they were more political than anything - the Crusades were about politics...
Conflict between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland is about politics...

A lot of the conflict in this world is caused by greed and power.

Other religions such as Buddhism abhorr violence and promote ideals such as the separation from worldy desires... I dun see no conflict in that one.

[Davetronz]

This thread angers me.
Religion isnt my thing...

[rx7girlie]

Originally posted by FiveFreshFish
Religion is the root to much of the evil we see in this world. That is all.

Nah, It's not religion that's the root of evil, but man and conflict between them. It's simply that Religion is such a touchy area that conflict arise more frequently, and when conflict does come, it's much worse unfortunately.

[rage2]

Originally posted by richardchan2002
Pascal's Wager:

Pascal's Wager can be presented in many different forms, usually something like this:

"If you believe, and God exists, you gain everything. If you disbelieve, and God exists, you lose everything."
Alternatively :

"It makes more sense to believe in God than to not believe. If you believe, and God exists, you will be rewarded in the afterlife. If you do not believe, and He exists, you will be punished for your disbelief. If He does not exist, you have lost nothing either way. "
If he does not exist, how can you say you have lost nothing?

How about losing a large portion of your life by following the words of a non existent entity? Not being able to achieve many things in life following the words of the bible? How about not being able to decide for YOURSELF as a PERSON what you should and shouldn't do because you have to follow somebody else's beliefs?

Just because you believe that you'll gain something after you die... That's a pretty serious wager... betting yourself, your entire life to that... maybe comparable to selling your soul to the devil? :)

Bet works both ways.

BTW - I consider myself an athiest. I believe we were created thru randomness, chaos theory. Big bang theory, etc.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by rage2

BTW - I consider myself an athiest. I believe we were created thru randomness, chaos theory. Big bang theory, etc.

Could you explain this concept a little further? Specifically how scientists explain where the energy came from to create the "big bang".

[ZorroAMG]

I do agree with Rage on the scientific explanations, but also being a Christian, I believe in God as well...kind of torn between the two in that I don't think God really created us, but he does exist to me....I kind of modded my religion to suit my beleifs a bit :)

[Hakkola]

If there's no God then there's no right and no wrong.

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict

But, this brings me to another question.
In the case of Christianity, does "accepting Christ" make you a good person or a good Christian....or does it do both....or does it even matter? Everyone has a different definition for what constitutes "a good christian". My personal feeling is that if you are one of the sunday only christians, who is going to church out of a sense of obligation and not because you want to be there or wish to live to any sort of christian ideal, you are going to be in for a shock if there is truly a heaven and hell. If you don't carry your ideals (whatever they are for your religion) in your heart and live to them, you won't reap the benefit at the end. You can't just pay lip service to the concepts and expect to get anywhere. I think its more important to be a good person than a good christian (although the two should go in hand in, they don't seem to nearly often enough :(). Belief is enough, going to church every sunday does not necessarily make you a better christian than someone who believes and lives to the ideals but never goes to church.

The problem isn't religion, most of the religions are teaching to live to an ideal that everyone should aspire to (harmony with your fellow man, minimizing harm to nature etc) but far too many people take things way too literally or creatively interpret something and become zealots, and that is where the problem is.

And as for religion stifling you, it doesn't have to. If every christian followed the book exactly to the letter, society would be a hell of a lot different. I have free thought, i can take the parts I like and discard what I don't. The fundamentals of a belief are what is important, not the details. I think the 10 commandents are a good ideal to live by (a LARGE chunk of our legal and moral code comes from them) so I live to those. But following those doesn't mean I need to stop eating meat on fridays, etc.

[Blacura]

Im Impressed by the majority of the responses to this thread.

Personally. I do not believe in a God. Ive never had a reason to. I dont want to just take someones word that he exists. Also I dont like the idea of something having control over my fate. I have alot of trouble understanding how someone can believe in the bibles stories, although I agree with many of the lessons thought. Religion for the most part dictates how we should live our life, and I respect that, because for the most part the rules are what would benefit humanity the most.

Maybe its the bio classes, but I also 100% believe in evolution.


I do, however, somewhat believe in fate and destiny, however we can control our own destiny with our actions. Nothing happens with out a reason. The decisions we make, even minor ones, change the outcome of our life immensely.


Even though I dont believe in a God, I still live life like I do in a way. I try to always do the right thing and think of other people. I dont need to be scared into thinking I will go to hell to be a good person, I make that decision myself.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Could you explain this concept a little further? Specifically how scientists explain where the energy came from to create the "big bang".
Instead of me typing up an essay...

http://ssscott.tripod.com/BigBang.html

Or do a search on Big Bang Theory on google. You'll get tons of hits.

[rx7girlie]

Originally posted by Blacura
Im Impressed by the majority of the responses to this thread.
Me too, plus, everyone is talking civil, which is nice.


Maybe its the bio classes, but I also 100% believe in evolution.

Hmm, once again, I say you don't need to pit Rel and Sci in conflict. Move past that. I consider myself an Evolutionary Creationist. Believing that God is the Ultimate creator, but not in the way Genesis 1-11 says. Those books as I said before where ancient peoples way of affirming their belief in that Ultimate Creator. With all the evolutionary evidence, you can't just turn your face away, but you can still believe in God.

And with respect the 10 Commandment's, realize that #4-10 are pretty much the way everyone "should" live, to be good people. The First 1-3 are again to affirm your belief in God. Again showing how Religion is trying to teach moral goodness.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by rage2

Instead of me typing up an essay...

http://ssscott.tripod.com/BigBang.html

Or do a search on Big Bang Theory on google. You'll get tons of hits.

My point was that its difficult for people like myself to accept the fact that this bang or explosion was created out of nothing and arose to the perfection that we see today. I thought energy was neither created or destroyed - with that said, where did the energy originate from? This is where I think god HAS to play some sort of role. In all of the mess of 3^-19 seconds or whatever that the bang theory claims, why and how did it turn out so perfect, producing a perfect balance of planets, stars, and solar systems that have allowed for the life on Earth as we see it today? And how weird is that, where Earth is the only planet with life forms on it that we know about, and it coincidentally happened to be the planet located in the perfect position to support life. I know i'm rambling on, but something has to be out there...

Take a look outside, and see everything around you. Its impossible for me to believe, that after 6 billion years, everything that we see outside is the perfect evolutionary product of years of "survival of the fittest"...It just doesn't work for me for some reason. For someone to accept that, then they would also have to accept that evolution produced everything we see today without much evidence pointing out to the "failed" products of evolution.

[Blacura]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Could you explain this concept a little further? Specifically how scientists explain where the energy came from to create the "big bang".

Its hard for us who arent physicists and scientists to explain. But Im sure if you google "big bang theory" There will be more info then you'd ever want to read.

God as a creator I think is way for our feeble minds to comprehend how we got here.

Its hard for us to grasp the idea of nothing and infinite nothingness. The universe goes forever. Imagine no end it just keeps going and going. The scale of the time and distances is just insane. If you just think about infinite nothingness, I Dunno about you but its a hard idea to grasp.

I also think the universe works in cycles, we are just part of one of the millions of cycles that are happening and have happened. They sun will explode and destroy everything, but there will be room made for a new type of life. And the cycle starts again from the start.

Our lives are so insignificant in the great scheme of things that is very humbling. I dont want to depress you or seem like a dark person, but thats the way I sees it.

So heres what I say: Live for the moment, cause you never know; life is very fragile. Be a good person, have as much fun as you with out hurting other people. And work hard.

[Blacura]

Originally posted by rx7girlie


And with respect the 10 Commandment's, realize that #4-10 are pretty much the way everyone "should" live, to be good people. The First 1-3 are again to affirm your belief in God. Again showing how Religion is trying to teach moral goodness.

Good point, I think religion and beliefs are something that has to evolve to survive as organisms evolve to survive.

[89coupe]

I don't believe or disbelieve I will just simply wait and find out when I die. According to the Bible, God is forgiving and will accept anyone into his Kingdom (If such a place exists).

In all honesty though, I have a feeling once your dead thats it. Pfffft nothing! I feel that your body is a capsule for an energy and once your body can no longer sustain that energy you die. The life giving energy fizzles out.

People who have gone under for surgery can kind of get an idea of what dying is like. When you are being put under you are conscious and then you are not. Blackness, nothing! Once the effects of the drug wear off you gain conscious but remember nothing. One minute you are awake the next you are not. Almost like being knocked out but you don't wake up. Kinda scary hey:drama:

[max_boost]

Originally posted by 89coupe
I don't believe or disbelieve I will just simply wait and find out when I die.

That sums it up for me as well. I'm curious about death and what happens after, if anything. I guess I am an atheist as well but I have much respect for those who do follow God and have no objections to their faith.

[DUBBED]

Originally posted by 04blackMAX
i think church and praying is a crutch but thats just me,

I think too many see religion that way and that is why it has become such a debatable topic. People who use religion as a crutch are going to get nothing out of it, as a matter of fact I think people like that are better off trying to make it through life on their own, instead of putting limits on themselves to try to impress someone.


Originally posted by Hakkola
If there's no God then there's no right and no wrong.

I don't believe in a God but I believe the lessons and morals taught in the Bible are and will be relevant for the rest of mans existence. I don't think whoever wrote the Bible was trying to get people to believe in God, but was trying to set an infinitly appliable group of guidelines that people should generally live by. I personally have sat in a Church and felt like holding up my little :bullshit: sign many times, but I think the underlying message of what the Bible is trying to say is what is important. I don't see life through the eyes of a serial killer etc., so I cant speak for them but I think that people generally live the way God wants them to. We all want to succeed, we all want to be a good person, we all want to be happy and want everyone around us to be happy. I don't think the world would be as "developed" as it is today if we had not followed the morals taught in the Bible, but who's to say what it would be like had we not had something to grow through. Would we still find happiness in the same things? To religious people I think the Bible explains why they feel happy when they do, why they feel sad when they do, and why other people react the way they do. For people who believe in God it gives them hope that there is a world better than this somewhere. To people who arn't religious I think the Bible is more present in their live than they think.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
My point was that its difficult for people like myself to accept the fact that this bang or explosion was created out of nothing and arose to the perfection that we see today. I thought energy was neither created or destroyed - with that said, where did the energy originate from? This is where I think god HAS to play some sort of role.

So then what made God? It's the same question - "What MADE the big bang happen".

The sheer randomness that caused life on earth is no more absurd than a big guy in a robe waving his hands. I call him Gandalf.

Khyron

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Khyron


So then what made God? It's the same question - "What MADE the big bang happen".

The sheer randomness that caused life on earth is no more absurd than a big guy in a robe waving his hands. I call him Gandalf.

Khyron Who made god? Interesting.....never thought of that:D

[rx7girlie]

I don't believe or disbelieve I will just simply wait and find out when I die.


That sums it up for me as well. I'm curious about death and what happens after, if anything. I guess I am an atheist as well but I have much respect for those who do follow God and have no objections to their faith.

I hate being so picky, but you are agnostic, not atheist.

[89coupe]

Here is a link based on the rx7girlie's reply

http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/humftp/E-text/Russell/agnostic.htm

[JustinL]

Have any of you heard of string theory? It is supposed to be the theory to end all theories in physics. What it boils down to is that the big bang was created by two huge "branes" colliding. It also theorizes that there are multiple dimensions that coexist. There is a great TV show on disclovery that is based on a book called "the elegant universe". String theory is the kind of theory that involves physics, philosophy and religion. I think you can watch most of it on www.discovery.com.

I personally believe that we are more than the sum of our parts. I have no explanation... but I guess thats what's called faith.

Justin

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by 89coupe
According to the Bible, God is forgiving and will accept anyone into his Kingdom (If such a place exists).

Not true.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by JustinL
Have any of you heard of string theory? It is supposed to be the theory to end all theories in physics. What it boils down to is that the big bang was created by two huge "branes" colliding. It also theorizes that there are multiple dimensions that coexist. There is a great TV show on disclovery that is based on a book called "the elegant universe". String theory is the kind of theory that involves physics, philosophy and religion. I think you can watch most of it on www.discovery.com.

I personally believe that we are more than the sum of our parts. I have no explanation... but I guess thats what's called faith.

Justin

I watched that entire show on the web (I think it was on PBS site) - really well done. But it shows how complicated things can get and how some things are just so vast our little brains can't comprehend it. So we make up a big guy with a beard. :D

Khyron

[fast_cars]

this could go on forever!!!
there is no end to this!!!

[Hakkola]

My comment about no God = no right/wrong is because God decided what was good and what was bad. If I had no fear of an afterlife, and if there's no God, why have morals? Who then decides what is good and what is bad?? Men??? Men are flawed, and could only punish me for a short period of time. Why not lie cheat and steal if there's no God?

In a world with only men couldn't one man's wrong be another's right??

[max_boost]

Originally posted by rx7girlie




I hate being so picky, but you are agnostic, not atheist. Ok, thanks for clearing that up but what is agnostic?

[Hakkola]

Agnostic-
One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

[rx7girlie]

Agnostic - belief there is no knowledge regarding existence or non-existence of God.

Atheist - belief God does not exist. The thing with Atheists is that they think EVERYTHING is randomness, even our own minds. For example, they believe that all emotions are nothing but a neurobiologically conditioned response. For example, in atheist mind LOVE is not a real feeling but a herd response to ensure your surivival throughtout life, and the events of 9/11 where not tragic, you would hold a position of true indifference.

Good atheist's quote that summarizes thier positions well:

"The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is at bottom no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, NOTHING BUT pointless indifference"

[1badPT]

Yeah that's a pretty fair summary of atheism. A lot of people confuse agnosticism with atheism, and there are imporant differences. It's a basic belief that everything in the physical world can be explained in physical terms. Our belief of the universe around us is that there is no metaphysicality or supernaturalism. The randomness thing you mentioned is only believed by some atheists, but the law of averages is definitely followed by all. Plus I don't imagine you'll find any atheists who wouldn't agree that 9/11 was a tragic event.

I sometimes get asked, "if there's no god, how does all this exist?". An atheists answer is typically it always existed, just in different forms. I sometimes get rebutted that "SOMETHING had to create all this, its not possible for it to have been here forever" yet, if that's hard to believe, how can you believe a "god" always existed in order to create this?


Originally posted by 1badPT
I would be described by my peers as "atheist". Just so you are aware, that is not a lack of a belief in a supreme being, rather its a firm belief that there isn't a supreme being (aka god) or an afterlife.

[rice_eater]

i'm an altar boy :poosie:

[1badPT]

:angel:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[treg50]

Going back to the original topic...


Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
... And during times that I am going through hard and questionable periods, I don't know what to believe.

Ah yes. Here it is. A lot of people come across these times in their lives. Hard times in one's own life or in the lives of others can sometimes test our limits, test our understanding of things, and can cause a person to question many things.

I don't know your specifics and what you mean, exactly, by 'hard and questionable periods' and I don't need to know. But a common question we ask in rough times is "Why?" Why me, why now, why us? etc. You want an explanation and you want to know the reason. Why do things happen the way they do. Obviously, the truth is we don't have the answers for everything. One thing I do is believe and have faith in something greater than myself, greater than the world, and greater than the people around me.

I just believe that there is something more to everything. With everything that happens - there's something more to it. I don't know what that is but there is.

[girlRACER]

I know how hard it is for people to accept religion. I used to be in the exact same position. We live in an individualistic society...we have the right to believe in whatever we want and as long as we're good people what else matters right?

My life changed when I actually saw and experienced things "beyond this world". I've seen things with my own two eyes that I cannot explain. I've experienced things that are not physically possible. Call me crazy or superstitious but when you actually see and feel things for yourself you will find that your perception of reality is nothing like what you thought it was.

People don't believe because they can't see, feel or talk to God. But if everyone could...wouldn't things be different?

In my opinion religion is not the root of evil. Ignorance and desire is the root of all evil. My Guru said that the greatest religion of all is COMPASSION.

[A_3]

O.k. we were real bored during class one day and this is what we came up with... if you took all the parts to make a perfect running watch... put them into a bag and shook it for 10 billion years, would it come out as a perfect watch on the exact time? No, except thats pretty much what happend with humans alot of random atoms and mutations etc... came together at the exact right time of this planet, right when it was hospital for life. Take what you will from that, doesn't mean theres necessarily a "god" but it makes you wonder if there is some greater force out there, something that watches over us whether it be a "mystical force" or "aliens" i feel like theres something out there looking over our planet. Is religion made to "control" us, yes some are, but not all of them, if you look back into the roots of christianity you find a ton of corruption in the church where things were misinterpretted or altered to benifit the ruling governments. The protistant church is a direct offshoot of the catholic church and many things are the same but the protistant churce was created by some king back in the day because he wanted to be able to divorce his wives without sinning... It is entirely possible that god spoke to him and said he could make his own church but i highly doubt it. The other example is the Morman church, again not trying to bash on anyones religions i respect them all, in the 1800's some guy i think John Smith was in New York somewhere and god spoke to him telling him about another "bible" known today as the book of morman, so John Smith took "gods" words and put them in a book and began his own church, extremely strict church but heavily favouring men, women had to be bound to a man before they could reach one of the "three heavens" 1st heaven=perfect morman=become god of own world, 2nd=pretty good morman= 10000 times better then earth, 3rd Heaven=Hitler, soon to be Sadam=100 times better then earth??? huh i see. anyways the catch of the Morman church was that you were expected to donate a hefty sum of your salery to the church and when you turned 18 you went on a three year mission to convert more people to mormans??? If the morman church was the righr way to go wouldn't more people join without having to be converted by door to door religion sales men and teleangelists... K thats just my opinion, i'm sorry if i offended anyone, but i think when it comes to religion you gotta keep and open mind.

[1badPT]

Having read through this thread, I think for the most part, everyone who posted here has had an open mind. I think in general, the common ground for all belief systems whether it be religion or atheism or agnosticism is to help bring purpose or meaning to life in general, and even to contribute to the improvement and enjoyment of it as well.

[rage2]

Originally posted by A_3
O.k. we were real bored during class one day and this is what we came up with... if you took all the parts to make a perfect running watch... put them into a bag and shook it for 10 billion years, would it come out as a perfect watch on the exact time?
Eventually, yes. Might be 10 billion years, may be 1000000 billion years, but yes eventually, randomness will put that watch back together.

An easier to understand example of randomness and chaos theory...

The Windows 2000 Professional CD is 415,397,888 bytes in size. If you generate 415,397,888 random numbers between 0 and 255 over and over again, eventually, the image will be a Windows 2000 Professional CD. It'll take FOREVER with curent computing hardware, but fast forward 100 years, and we may have computers fast enough to prove this in a few hours.

So let's think smaller, say, a 13 byte assembly program from the first days of computing. Write a program that generates 13 random numbers from 0-255, and eventually before 20,282,409,603,651,670,423,947,251,286,016 (or 256^13) iterations, the exact 13 byte program will be generated somewhere in there. Today's supercomputers can prove this theory in about 30 minutes time. Probably a few hours time on your home computer.

[rage2]

Originally posted by treg50
I don't know your specifics and what you mean, exactly, by 'hard and questionable periods' and I don't need to know. But a common question we ask in rough times is "Why?" Why me, why now, why us? etc. You want an explanation and you want to know the reason. Why do things happen the way they do. Obviously, the truth is we don't have the answers for everything. One thing I do is believe and have faith in something greater than myself, greater than the world, and greater than the people around me.
I've seen family members in this predicament, and they sit there and spend all their time wondering why. Why is god doing this to them? Why did god choose them to test their limits? Why? Wasting their lives away thinking why?

I've been in HUGE predicaments before, at one time I was over $80k in debt. I didn't think WHY, I thought HOW... HOW did I get myself in this mess, and HOW do I get out of it? How do I make sure it won't happen to me again?

Instead of wasting away precious time figuring out why this happened to me, I spent time figuring out how to get out, how not to let it happen again, and dug myself out of the hole in no time.

[89coupe]

personal message of God’s forgiveness. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall are as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool” (1:18). “I have blotted out, like a thick cloud, your transgressions, and, like a cloud, your sins” (44:22). “I, even I, am He, who blots out your transgressions for My own sake; and I will not remember your sins” (43:25).


Originally posted by Hakkola


Not true.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Hakkola
My comment about no God = no right/wrong is because God decided what was good and what was bad. If I had no fear of an afterlife, and if there's no God, why have morals? Who then decides what is good and what is bad?? Men??? Men are flawed, and could only punish me for a short period of time. Why not lie cheat and steal if there's no God?
Yes, we decide what's good and what is bad. Culture, and evolution of different cultures decide that. Which is why laws are so different in different cultures.

The thought of eating a dog is pure evil in North America. Go to Asia, and it's a delicacy enjoyed by many... pure normalcy. So who's wrong? Did god (if he exists) make up a different set of rules for different people?

[Hakkola]

It also says that you can't get into heaven without knowing Jesus.

Edit - That excerpt you took out is about God not looking for perfection. No human is perfect, and we are born sinners. If there was only Heaven for those who never sinned it would only be God and Jesus, heaven would be a lonely place.


The really important laws don't usually differ. I don't care if someone believe in God or not, it's not my place to say anything, I'm not even trying to make any strong arguments, just bringing up some points.

Why follow man made laws if I don't have anything to fear when I'm dead?

Everybody has their own ideas about religion I suppose... I like to think both Christians and Jews will get into heaven, but I can never know, and I'm sure other Christians have other ideas. I do know I am a God fearing person though and that's all that really matters to me.

If I knew for fact there was no God I would be an entirely different person.

[Hakkola]

The bible talks about man made laws and we're supposed to follow them unless they directly violate a God given law. Of course different cultures will have different laws to suit different needs of the region, but I won't necessarily follow them.

God made a set of laws for men and recognized that more laws would be needed. God only wrote the traffic laws for Germany, and look how fucked up NA turned out :D

[rage2]

Originally posted by Hakkola
The bible talks about man made laws and we're supposed to follow them unless they directly violate a God given law.
You do know that "God" didn't write the bible. In fact, religious experts can't agree on who actually wrote the bible. What they do agree on (mostly) was that the bible is a series of fictatious stories.

Here's a good read :
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible1.html

[girlRACER]

Originally posted by rage2

You do know that "God" didn't write the bible. In fact, religious experts can't agree on who actually wrote the bible. What they do agree on (mostly) was that the bible is a series of fictatious stories.

Here's a good read :
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible1.html

The Bible contains real historical events. In my western religious studies courses we learn about Judaism/Christianity from a historical rather than a biblical perspective and much of the history is how the Bible described.

As for the straightdope link...I didn't read it...but I would not trust that to be a good academic source to make a scholarly argument. He makes the argument based on 5 scholarly sources??? Who are the authors of those sources?? What are their credentials? What research have they done?? Its hard to trust the source.

[89coupe]

Have a look at this. The bible is full of holes...

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.shtml

[1badPT]

One could argue there are inconsistencies in any belief system. And since most religions are translated from scriptures written in other language, the inconsistencies could be poor translations/interpretations.

[James]

Originally posted by 89coupe
Have a look at this. The bible is full of holes...

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.shtml


VERY Interesting!

[89coupe]

My point is, who the hell (pardon the punn:tongue: ) knows what the original Bible was trying to say. Did you ever play that game way back in grade school where you sat in a circle of people and the first person would whisper something in the person's ear beside him and then each person would pass on that message and by the time it got back to the original person it didn't remotely relay the original message?


Originally posted by 1badPT
One could argue there are inconsistencies in any belief system. And since most religions are translated from scriptures written in other language, the inconsistencies could be poor translations/interpretations.

[Ben]

Originally posted by rage2

Eventually, yes. Might be 10 billion years, may be 1000000 billion years, but yes eventually, randomness will put that watch back together.

An easier to understand example of randomness and chaos theory...

The Windows 2000 Professional CD is 415,397,888 bytes in size. If you generate 415,397,888 random numbers between 0 and 255 over and over again, eventually, the image will be a Windows 2000 Professional CD. It'll take FOREVER with curent computing hardware, but fast forward 100 years, and we may have computers fast enough to prove this in a few hours.

So let's think smaller, say, a 13 byte assembly program from the first days of computing. Write a program that generates 13 random numbers from 0-255, and eventually before 20,282,409,603,651,670,423,947,251,286,016 (or 256^13) iterations, the exact 13 byte program will be generated somewhere in there. Today's supercomputers can prove this theory in about 30 minutes time. Probably a few hours time on your home computer.



Originally posted by rage2

I've seen family members in this predicament, and they sit there and spend all their time wondering why. Why is god doing this to them? Why did god choose them to test their limits? Why? Wasting their lives away thinking why?

I've been in HUGE predicaments before, at one time I was over $80k in debt. I didn't think WHY, I thought HOW... HOW did I get myself in this mess, and HOW do I get out of it? How do I make sure it won't happen to me again?

Instead of wasting away precious time figuring out why this happened to me, I spent time figuring out how to get out, how not to let it happen again, and dug myself out of the hole in no time.



Originally posted by rage2

Yes, we decide what's good and what is bad. Culture, and evolution of different cultures decide that. Which is why laws are so different in different cultures.

The thought of eating a dog is pure evil in North America. Go to Asia, and it's a delicacy enjoyed by many... pure normalcy. So who's wrong? Did god (if he exists) make up a different set of rules for different people?



Originally posted by Hakkola
It also says that you can't get into heaven without knowing Jesus.

Edit - That excerpt you took out is about God not looking for perfection. No human is perfect, and we are born sinners. If there was only Heaven for those who never sinned it would only be God and Jesus, heaven would be a lonely place.


The really important laws don't usually differ. I don't care if someone believe in God or not, it's not my place to say anything, I'm not even trying to make any strong arguments, just bringing up some points.

Why follow man made laws if I don't have anything to fear when I'm dead?

Everybody has their own ideas about religion I suppose... I like to think both Christians and Jews will get into heaven, but I can never know, and I'm sure other Christians have other ideas. I do know I am a God fearing person though and that's all that really matters to me.

If I knew for fact there was no God I would be an entirely different person.



Originally posted by Hakkola
The bible talks about man made laws and we're supposed to follow them unless they directly violate a God given law. Of course different cultures will have different laws to suit different needs of the region, but I won't necessarily follow them.

God made a set of laws for men and recognized that more laws would be needed. God only wrote the traffic laws for Germany, and look how fucked up NA turned out :D



Originally posted by rage2

You do know that "God" didn't write the bible. In fact, religious experts can't agree on who actually wrote the bible. What they do agree on (mostly) was that the bible is a series of fictatious stories.

Here's a good read :
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible1.html


Preach on Brotheren!

[James]

Originally posted by 89coupe
My point is, who the hell (pardon the punn:tongue: ) knows what the original Bible was trying to say. Did you ever play that game way back in grade school where you sat in a circle of people and the first person would whisper something in the person's ear beside him and then each person would pass on that message and by the time it got back to the original person it didn't remotely relay the original message?




haha, thats a funny analogy

[Ben]

Originally posted by James



haha, thats a funny analogy

Thats funny, thats the most common example used to demonstrate the misconceptions in the legitimacy of the bible.

[89coupe]

Funny but true ;)

Read it Hakkola...
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.shtml



Originally posted by James



haha, thats a funny analogy

[Fluidic]

... a form of mass control, nothing more.

[1badPT]

I don't doubt that for each bible that is available in English (or almost any other language for that matter) will have some of the translator's own interpretations/misconceptions woven into it. And even as you read the English version of the bible, you may interpret it differently than the next person who reads it. The important part for you is whether it makes sense - if it makes sense of life, or gives you direction, how bad can it be?

I apologize in advance for any inconsistencies/misinterpretations/nonsense in my post - I'm tired and drunk :nut: goodnight!

EDIT: replying to 89coupe

[1badPT]

Originally posted by Fluidic Digital
... a form of mass control, nothing more.

I lied, I got one more before bed :P

What about the religions that aren't followed by huge numbers of people like wicca? Why create a belief system to control the masses if its not followed by the masses. Perhaps rulers in the past/present have manipulated religion for their own means, but can you honestly say that the underlying religion's only purpose is to control people?

[James]

Originally posted by Ben


Thats funny, thats the most common example used to demonstrate the misconceptions in the legitimacy of the bible.


And what are you saying?




Originally posted by 89coupe
Funny but true ;)



:werd:

[Ben]

Originally posted by James



And what are you saying?



Surprised you were not familiar with it is all.

[Hakkola]

Yes, I know God didn't physically write it :) Only thing that could be argued he "wrote" would be 10 commandments. Other things are (from my limited understanding) what he told people to do, in visions etc, or for the most part the bible is history, entire chapters are just about life in general ie: the book of psalms

When it comes to talking about religion I'm not the guy to talk to, I read the bible when I was a kid, I hardly go to church, but I believe in God, (I never really believed Jesus was the saviour when I was younger, sometimes I consider myself more jewish in my beliefs...) and I'm still pretty relaxed about being Christian, but because of my religious upbringing there are things I won't do like cursing God etc...


Differences between those passages could be from language barriers, or people just plain changing what it said in their version, which is appearantly one of the worst things you can do. There's also a lot of different 'versions' of christianity, catholic, protestant etc... which somehow ended up quite different.

Catholicism I don't really understand how it could be so different from my version of christianity, what's up with the 7 deadly sins or whatever???

[Ben]

Originally posted by 1badPT


I lied, I got one more before bed :P

What about the religions that aren't followed by huge numbers of people like wicca? Why create a belief system to control the masses if its not followed by the masses. Perhaps rulers in the past/present have manipulated religion for their own means, but can you honestly say that the underlying religion's only purpose is to control people?


I think his comment relys on more mainstream religions. I could be wrong tho.

[1badPT]

I guess I was trying to point out that the "population control" aspects of religion are usually manipulations of the religion by people of authority instead of the religion itself. In other words saying its simply a way to control the masses would be oversimplifying it.

[Skyline_Addict]

all in all religion and all it's relation is the most intruiging thing in our lives. science has explained (or will eventually) everything except this.
that's why religion is so intangible.
it's a matter (for all aspects) of conception and one's own belief really.
there's no way to "prove" something that's intangible.
this is why religion appeals so much (in different ways of course) to most people. it is something that is unique to us than to other things. we can believe. we can have faith.
the mind is a peerless place, and the soul? - perhaps the conception of the soul is what comes from this place.....
but only perhaps.

[three.eighteen.]

Originally posted by rx7girlie



I believe in an afterlife, both Heaven and Hell. How one goes to either or? That's for God to decide and I like to hide behind the word mystery in issues like that.:dunno:

are people who lack conscience evil necessarily?
some people have disorders/imbalances that result in a lax conscience, they are victims of their own minds

if god existed as a sentient being why would he create a creature that lacks the ability to decipher right from wrong if god is the ultimate judgement?

you can't send someone who can't help it to hell

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by three.eighteen.



you can't send someone who can't help it to hell

lol.
have you seen that southpark episode where all the kids are freaking out about going to hell and start to do things to repent for their sins?
then they ask the people at the church if their friend Timmy (the mentally handicapped kid) if he would go to hell, because he wasn't capable of repent. it was really funny how all of them ran away from the question because they couldn't answer it.

[4wheeldrift]

Here's a question for you. If all religion is is a means of mass control, what does that make our laws? Since some people have sited religion as being stifling, does the same not apply to our laws (since many of the major ones, but not all are based on the fundamental tenets of christianity)?

[Fluidic]

God and the "boundaries" he sets for everyone who follows "his" ways are just another form of control. I hate to base something so philosophical on a movie -- but think Matrix.

Don't get me wrong, I respect anyone who believes in any kind of faith, I really do -- these comments are merely my view(s). I am also treading very lightly on this topic for certain reasons. ;)

[accordboi_02]

Originally posted by 4wheeldrift
Here's a question for you. If all religion is is a means of mass control, what does that make our laws? Since some people have sited religion as being stifling, does the same not apply to our laws (since many of the major ones, but not all are based on the fundamental tenets of christianity)?

Laws are one of the most blatant forms of social control; I don't think there can be any debate about that.

As for the laws being stifling, luckily in N/A it's not as bad a problem, but if you talk to some Anarchists, for example, they will gladly tell you how stifling our laws are.

[rage2]

Originally posted by girlRACER
The Bible contains real historical events. In my western religious studies courses we learn about Judaism/Christianity from a historical rather than a biblical perspective and much of the history is how the Bible described.
Yes, there are SOME historical events in there... like how a movie is "based on a true story". I mean, we evolved from monkeys, or was it gorillas? Anyways, there was no adam and eve, no creation by god, which has been proven.

[1badPT]

...been proven in scientific terms. Faith falls outside the boundaries of science, and hence no one can summarily prove one way or the other. Perception is reality, so your view of the world is right, but so is the person's beside you.

[rage2]

Originally posted by 4wheeldrift
Here's a question for you. If all religion is is a means of mass control, what does that make our laws? Since some people have sited religion as being stifling, does the same not apply to our laws (since many of the major ones, but not all are based on the fundamental tenets of christianity)?
Definately Mass control, both laws and religion. It's unfortunately that our laws are drafted around religion. Marriage is a good example. Human nature is to find many mates, not be tied down to 1 for the rest of our lives as dictated by religion. Yet, our culture, churches decide that's the case, and we shall live like that for the rest of our lives to find true happyness. You know what, I'll bet you Hugh Hefner is a damn happy guy.

Some porn star (hehe) made a great speech about humankind, sex, marrige/single partner commitments on some E! show. To sum it up, she said if humankind was meant to have only 1 sexual partner, then it would be super exciting everytime, which is not true. She said that even with the hottest guy that she's been with, after a while it gets boring. But when she has sex with a different person everyday, even if it's horrible 2 minute sex, it's still super exciting and very enjoyable.

The point is, we are ALL heavily influenced by religion. We think of the porn star example above to be a slutty whore. But what is actually happening? If you look at it from a level without cultural influence, she's found true happyness, she's living everyday happily, letting her natural "animal instincts" take over. She is ENJOYING EVERY SINGLE DAY SHE'S ALIVE. This just proves religion as mass control worked well, even for me, who is an athiest, because I too think she's a slut :).

[89coupe]

Show me in the Bible the mention of Dinasours?


Originally posted by girlRACER


The Bible contains real historical events. In my western religious studies courses we learn about Judaism/Christianity from a historical rather than a biblical perspective and much of the history is how the Bible described.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by rage2
I mean, we evolved from monkeys, or was it gorillas? Anyways, there was no adam and eve, no creation by god, which has been proven.

How has it been proven, have they found bones of some sort of in between stage like a monkey/man hybrid??? Forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm not educated on human evolution from monkeys, which may or may not have happened, it doesn't say how God created man. Just that he did. I think Christians are too touchy about this subject, I think it's a little degrading to think that we came from monkeys but who knows.


Originally posted by 89coupe
Show me in the Bible the mention of Dinasours?

It says he created the creatures of the Earth, he also left out Dodo birds and just about every other organism that ever lived, so what??

[girlRACER]

Originally posted by 89coupe
Show me in the Bible the mention of Dinasours?



:rolleyes: Oh Please. Don't even get me started. There is no mention of Dinosaurs but to say that there are no historical events is a blatant lie. Please go read Langdon Gilkey's "Nature, Reality and the Sacred." When you have read the ENTIRE book and have some valuable claim worth refuting....then maybe I'll entertain myself to engage in some academic debate. Until then this is quite useless to me because your claims are based on common logic which is based on the assumption that science is the key and answer to knowing all Truth. But what if that assumption could be argued?? That is what Gilkey does. So please I encourage you...go read it. :thumbsup:

The problem with these kinds of debates are that it is in a car forum. Nothing worth value can be taken from these discussions because no one has taken the time to do academic research or fieldwork. Nor does anyone care to. I could go spend 60 hours of research and write a paper refuting you and you could still say :whocares: in the end. Waste of time.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by 1badPT
...been proven in scientific terms. Faith falls outside the boundaries of science

Science in the last few years has only made my faith stronger, rules of physics etc. are broken all the time and proved wrong, there's always something wrong, nothing is perfect and something is missing from the equation.

Scientists were able to "freeze" a beam of light at some american university, how many laws does that break?? I can post up the link if anybody wants it.

Religious theories might not be seen as perfect, but current mathamatics and science can't be seen as perfect either.

[B17a]

Originally posted by Hakkola


How has it been proven, have they found bones of some sort of in between stage like a monkey/man hybrid???

Actually I believe Homo Erectus was this hybrid monkey man you speak of. As you can probably tell, the Erectus part of that name meant he was the first homonoid to walk upright. Thus, Homo Sapiens evolved from this.

[Hakkola]

Interesting, any links?? I'm too lazy to do a google search. Do they have any Homo Erectus bones or anything? I've seen those charts that show evolution but never anything more than that.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Hakkola
Scientists were able to "freeze" a beam of light at some american university, how many laws does that break??
Absolutely none.

Originally posted by Hakkola
Science in the last few years has only made my faith stronger, rules of physics etc. are broken all the time and proved wrong, there's always something wrong, nothing is perfect and something is missing from the equation.
I think it's time for you to brush up on physics :).