Poll: civic vs talon handling

[Awd-Tsi]

which of the following handles better?

1988–1991 Honda civic

1995-1998 Talon/ Eclipse All wheel drive turbo


Having an arguement with a few people over this...

[962 kid]

All DSMs handle like garbage

[Thateg6there]

all wheel drives tend to have more understeer if i remember correctly ?...

[Awd-Tsi]

the awd model handles alot better then the fwd model thats for sure. Shouldn't have even put this on here since half of beyond drives a civic :rolleyes:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Civic

[962 kid]

Originally posted by Awd-Tsi
the awd model handles alot better then the fwd model thats for sure. Shouldn't have even put this on here since half of beyond drives a civic :rolleyes:

Aww look who's sad because noone agrees with him. No, the AWD version does not handle better. Go bench race elsewhere

[Joe-G]

Why do you have to be such a tool.

Stop belittling others cars, and just fucking move on.
You drive a talon and most people call it garbage. Some people drive hondas and most people refer to them as rice mobiles.

:whocares:

EDIT: I assumed the OP is Mike (For those of you that know him)

[JAARemedy]

Civic :poosie:

[slinkie]

its hard to understeer when your d16's wheezing its way up to a top speed of 60

[Awd-Tsi]

Originally posted by slinkie
its hard to understeer when your d16's wheezing its way up to a top speed of 60 :werd: :rofl:

[.403white]

I think its mike vs gary
And in that case neither due to driver error (turning left when its a right turn, accelerating on glenmore in instances where you should be braking) and it sounds unreal but completely natural to these two fine gentlemen

[bjstare]

Originally posted by slinkie
its hard to understeer when your d16's wheezing its way up to a top speed of 60

I lol'd.


On another note, I find it funny when people post a thread, then cry/make excuses about why the outcome isn't what they initially hoped it would be:rolleyes:

[Awd-Tsi]

Originally posted by .403white
I think its mike vs gary
And in that case neither due to driver error (turning left when its a right turn, accelerating on glenmore in instances where you should be braking) and it sounds unreal but completely natural to these two fine gentlemen who are you again? pm if you want, but no its not a gary im talking about. Either way i knew that the majority of people would pick the civic for the cornering. Still even a stock dsm can do 0-60 in less then 7 seconds while the civic is still trying to rev to 9k (talking stock vehicles, not a turbo civic, etc). So even if it handled better, the dsm would still win a road course i would assume.

[Awd-Tsi]

Originally posted by Joe-G
Why do you have to be such a tool.

Stop belittling others cars, and just fucking move on.
You drive a talon and most people call it garbage. Some people drive hondas and most people refer to them as rice mobiles.

:whocares:

EDIT: I assumed the OP is Mike (For those of you that know him) Joe-G, I didn't once say anything on here belittling a civic, it was just a question... Yeah there are quite a few good handling hondas (one s2k was in the top 5 best handling cars i've been in).

[vengie]

Mike, you're a joke :facepalm:

[Awd-Tsi]

Originally posted by vengie
Mike, you're a joke :facepalm: alan ? :banghead:

[vengie]

Swing and a miss

[Awd-Tsi]

Originally posted by vengie
Swing and a miss Are you alans friend then? Don't know many people with a sti.

[vengie]

Ahh the beauty of the internet... Anonymity ;)

[Joe-G]

You didn't mention much here, but I've heard about you on on more than one occasion.

Your attitude towards everything is that Your talon>everything else, and we get it. Also, you can't compare an NA civic to a factory turbo talon. They're not even in the same class. You asked which handled better, not which of the two would win in a straight line.
I have yet to see you come out for a track day. You should bring your car out for once :facepalm:

[TommyEK4]

popcorn, check. :D

[MGCM]

Originally posted by Awd-Tsi
who are you again? pm if you want, but no its not a gary im talking about. Either way i knew that the majority of people would pick the civic for the cornering. Still even a stock dsm can do 0-60 in less then 7 seconds while the civic is still trying to rev to 9k (talking stock vehicles, not a turbo civic, etc). So even if it handled better, the dsm would still win a road course i would assume.

Think about this, even if the AWD TSi is more powerful and gets to speeds a few seconds faster than the civic, in the end, the AWD TSi MUST slow down for corners while the civic will just maintain it's speed and thus passing the AWD TSi in the corners. If the finish line was 2 seconds after a tight corner the civic wins, if the finish is 1/4mile down the track then maybe the AWD TSi could win.

Are you wanting to compete in auto-x? There is VERY few TSi's that compete because they break and break and break over and over. Civics are everywhere, parts are cheep, and will out-corner any TSi with the proper setup and driver. In auto-x overall power isn't always a good thing, especially if your new to auto-x or road courses. I competed last year in 3 events with a 2009 Cobalt SS Turbo and found that at times there was more power than I needed and it got me into trouble several times on the course. If your serious about getting into auto-x PM me and I can help you find your way to the various clubs in Alberta who compete almost every weekend or every other weekend. Between the various clubs there is usually available events every weekend.

[Awd-Tsi]

Originally posted by MGCM


Think about this, even if the AWD TSi is more powerful and gets to speeds a few seconds faster than the civic, in the end, the AWD TSi MUST slow down for corners while the civic will just maintain it's speed and thus passing the AWD TSi in the corners. If the finish line was 2 seconds after a tight corner the civic wins, if the finish is 1/4mile down the track then maybe the AWD TSi could win.

Are you wanting to compete in auto-x? There is VERY few TSi's that compete because they break and break and break over and over. Civics are everywhere, parts are cheep, and will out-corner any TSi with the proper setup and driver. In auto-x overall power isn't always a good thing, especially if your new to auto-x or road courses. I competed last year in 3 events with a 2009 Cobalt SS Turbo and found that at times there was more power than I needed and it got me into trouble several times on the course. If your serious about getting into auto-x PM me and I can help you find your way to the various clubs in Alberta who compete almost every weekend or every other weekend. Between the various clubs there is usually available events every weekend. Yeah, I've never tried the autox yet, allthough matt with his stock dsm seems to be winning lots of the events...


Joe- I need money lol. Otherwise I would happily drive for a track day

[epp01]

I'm a part of the DSM community, and I have to say that Mike Hill is a TERRIBLE part and makes ALL DSM owners look bad because of it, didn't you have your car for sale Mike and nobody would buy it?!

BTW Mike doesn't even work on his own car guys, he makes other people come over and stand there while he watches, then BITCHES when people have to leave and then blames the people for the problems he's having, speaking from 100% truth and experience on this one. And he wonders why nobody will help him with his car anymore.

[MGCM]

Originally posted by Awd-Tsi
Yeah, I've never tried the autox yet, allthough matt with his stock dsm seems to be winning lots of the events...


Joe- I need money lol. Otherwise I would happily drive for a track day

If it's the TSI that I saw compete last year at Grey Eagle then it's most certainly NOT STOCK lol that thing is a MONSTER!!!

[luxor]

With a couple hundred dollar suspension mods, Civics have the most superior handling amongst 90% of cars on the road, RHD Civics are even more superior.

:thumbsup:

[Awd-Tsi]

Originally posted by MGCM


If it's the TSI that I saw compete last year at Grey Eagle then it's most certainly NOT STOCK lol that thing is a MONSTER!!! Was it grey? He has kyb struts and a exhaust he said

[MGCM]

Originally posted by Awd-Tsi
Was it grey? He has kyb struts and a exhaust he said

Nope, not the same car then, I can promise you that. And I seriously doubt a Stock Class TSI is dominating auto-x in Alberta with any of the clubs, if so I'd like to see proof of it.

[Awd-Tsi]

Hmmm was it a green second gen ?

[epp01]

Originally posted by MGCM


If it's the TSI that I saw compete last year at Grey Eagle then it's most certainly NOT STOCK lol that thing is a MONSTER!!!
I think you're thinking of Ron's car, from Revolution motorsports. And yes, that car is a monster!!

[MGCM]

Originally posted by epp01

I think you're thinking of Ron's car, from Revolution motorsports. And yes, that car is a monster!!

Far as I remember this Talon was brought to the track on a trailer and is not street driven but I could be wrong, if Ron's car is not street driven and competes in auto-x consistently then I'd bet it's his car I am thinking of.

[talonboi]

i had a talon tsi awd for 4+years, and it handled like a sack of poo. its heavy and cant corner well. think of a fat kit running on velcro turning right.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by 962 kid
All DSMs handle like garbage


Originally posted by luxor
With a couple hundred dollar suspension mods, Civics have the most superior handling amongst 90% of cars on the road, RHD Civics are even more superior.

:thumbsup:

Lots of exaggeration in this thread.:rofl:

[bituerbo]

A race to the top of a parking garage would settle this.

[Kloubek]

I don't know if I agree with you guys, actually.

I just did some research, and used a test from Motortrend which put the 92 DSM's at .87g's on the skidpad. Some other testers rated it as low as .84, but I figured Motortrend was at least remotely reputable.

I could not get a lot of info on older civics, but I did see skidpad numbers worse than that. .83 and .84 seems to be pretty common numbers I saw flying around.

But as with any car, the suspension and tire combination can make all the difference. Put wide summer tires on any car, and you'll see a notable performance increase.

[blackpeople]

This thread is so retarded because in the end its all talk unless someone tries it.


First off its not that hard to find a stock 2g talon and an ef civic and get em to race around a track. i am sure it will be a very sloppy and slow race.


The crazy 2g that you are talking about is owned by Matt Howe
Talons and its a very nice car but there isnt too too much done to it.
And he also did very well in auto x events before in a close to stock 1g dsm

On a side note a 1g talon fwd held the record for fastest time around race city on a non "R" compund tire for 2 years untill it got beat by an evo 10.


Not saying that talons are anything great i am just trying to show that any car can do anything if the owners do research and are not cheap all the time.


:D

[blackpeople]

ps Mike please stop posting on forums or sell your car. You are about as bad as the crankwalk plague :thumbsdow

[962 kid]

^^ What he said. Shut up and go race your car instead of bench racing. If you can't afford the $200 for road course, go do some autoX and see how your dizzum stacks up there.


Originally posted by heavyD

Lots of exaggeration in this thread.:rofl:

I'll stand by my statement ;)


Originally posted by Kloubek
I don't know if I agree with you guys, actually.

I just did some research, and used a test from Motortrend which put the 92 DSM's at .87g's on the skidpad. Some other testers rated it as low as .84, but I figured Motortrend was at least remotely reputable.

I could not get a lot of info on older civics, but I did see skidpad numbers worse than that. .83 and .84 seems to be pretty common numbers I saw flying around.

But as with any car, the suspension and tire combination can make all the difference. Put wide summer tires on any car, and you'll see a notable performance increase.

a) skidpad and slalom numbers have almost nothing to do with handling

b) he said 2G talon, not 1g. Totally different suspension


Originally posted by epp01

I think you're thinking of Ron's car, from Revolution motorsports. And yes, that car is a monster!!

Matt has several DSMs, including a grey near stock 1G.

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by epp01
I'm a part of the DSM community, and I have to say that Mike Hill is a TERRIBLE part and makes ALL DSM owners look bad because of it, didn't you have your car for sale Mike and nobody would buy it?!

BTW Mike doesn't even work on his own car guys, he makes other people come over and stand there while he watches, then BITCHES when people have to leave and then blames the people for the problems he's having, speaking from 100% truth and experience on this one. And he wonders why nobody will help him with his car anymore.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/popcorn.gif


but anyways TSI being top of the line might as well be vs a 91 civic SI, i'd say civic and i've driven both in stock form respectively. back in the day i remember Talon TSI and 3000gt R/T TT had this huge misconception that their cars could take corners like a train on tracks because of the AWD *oooooo-ahhhh*, for example that race in fish creek way back with that TSI that understeered off the parkway road and rolled multiple times iirc.

the TSI is a pig! i remember watching one at solo2, seeing the rim almost touch the pavement rolling over the tire from the sheer bulk of the thing trying to make almost a 90 deg. corner at somewhat high speed.

Honda does build nice FWD chassis to go with its double wishbone susp. in most of their cars, can't beat that, just look what happened to the RSX when they put macpherson up front instead of what its predecessor the integra had, definitely not as fun IMO

[Sugarphreak]

...

[m10-power]

Originally posted by blackpeople
On a side note a 1g talon fwd held the record for fastest time around race city on a non "R" compund tire for 2 years untill it got beat by an evo 10.

:D

Doubt this highly, just because a series runs doesn't make it the standard to define records

[Sentry]

Stock for stock they both handle terrible. The DSM is fat, and the Civic is, let's face it, an economy car on 185 series tires. Not to mention they're in completely different leagues. You just can't compare them stock.

However, double wishbone Civics can be made to handle nicely very easily with very little modification. If you can't see this, you're being ignorant. Go to an autocross event and count the Hondas.

With a 2g DSM you've got 3000 lbs of car that you need to change direction.

[MGCM]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
He is also a very talented driver which has a huge amount to do with winning... and yes, that Talon is a freaking monster.

x2 Matt is an incredible driver and I can only hope that one day I will be on the same level as him in competition.

[403Gemini]

I voted eclipse/talon because I don't know any better :rofl:

[..*JDM Hatch*..]

put some good coilovers on the civic,get some hella sway bars,tie bars,get your camber set properly and that thing will rip the corners better than a DSM.

AWD has lots of understeer.

[94boosted]

This is a pointless comparo. A econobox civic to a turbo AWD talon :dunno: Another one of those Mini challenging Porsche to a race :rofl: If both cars were stock the edge should go to the Talon around any course unless it was very, very tight. Take it from someone who has owned both a turbo Talon (non-AWD) and a Civic Si.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by n1zm0
Honda does build nice FWD chassis to go with its double wishbone susp. in most of their cars, can't beat that, just look what happened to the RSX when they put macpherson up front instead of what its predecessor the integra had, definitely not as fun IMO

That's nice and all but you do realize that 2G DSM's also didn't use struts. That said 1G's were probably a better platform for handling.

Honda's have the advantage of being light but outside of the Type R Integra it's a bit of an exaggeration to say that they were great handling. They were small, light and had a sporty feel but they never had power to really push the handling limits whereas you are actually going into corners fast in a DSM.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by ..*JDM Hatch*..
AWD has lots of understeer.

So does FWD in fact newer AWD cars with torque vectoring have abolished understeer. The EVO X oversteers more than most RWD cars.

[tsi_neal]

This thread = :facepalm:

misinformation about DSM's, Honda's, AND particular owners, kinda sad...

[4lti]

Talon drivers you just cant argue with.
Never.
Its like arguing with someone about religion.
You just cant win.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by 4lti
Talon drivers you just cant argue with.
Never.
Its like arguing with someone about religion.
You just cant win.

Kind of like Subaru owners. Go to NASIOC and try to explain how RWD is superior to AWD and you will get hundreds of responses claiming how AWD is superior and of course the popular: "OMG AWD rules!".

[heavyD]

Originally posted by tsi_neal
This thread = :facepalm:

misinformation about DSM's, Honda's, AND particular owners, kinda sad...

What I find funny is the typical stereotype that DSM's were junk. Nowadays you mod any new turbocharged car and up the boost a few psi you need a proper ecu tune to ensure that you don't run lean and blow your engine.

In the old days (90's) people were purchasing old, used DSM's slapping on intakes, exhauts, DP's, test pipes and upping the boost as much as 5 psi with crude methods like manual boost controllers or EBC's. The common method of fuel modification was adding a Walbro 255 fuel pump and if you were into big turbochargers upgraded injectors with an SAFC tricking the ECU.

These crude methods yielded alot of fast cars and also alot of engine failures but considering that 99% of these cars never had a proper tune (most likely very poor tunes) and many lasted along time making big power I don't think these cars get enough credit for how tough they really were. Nowadays I see threads in evolutionm.net where someone adds an intake, test pipe, and exhaust and people are like OMG better get a tune asap or you will run lean and blow up your engine. Times certainly have changed.

[yeahyeah]

I raced a new GT-R through the twisties in my civic, and I SMOKED him!

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by blackpeople
On a side note a 1g talon fwd held the record for fastest time around race city on a non "R" compund tire for 2 years untill it got beat by an evo 10.

What was the time? I have a hard time believing that.

[blackpeople]

^^1.28.02

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by blackpeople
^^1.28.02

And for the record there is a honda on street tires running 126.x, he made that with about 100hp less than the guy who ran the 128. That is just one example that im immeadiatly familiar with, there are certainly others that are running faster times on street rubber.

[blackpeople]

Well then there goes that theory lol :D

i guess then the next step is challenge my gf in her eg civic to a race at race city

[DSM4LIFE]

i have owned both a talon tsi and a civic hatch. would have to go with the civic for handling.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by DSM4LIFE
i have owned both a talon tsi and a civic hatch. would have to go with the civic for handling.

I would say the EG for sure for handling but the EC's are maybe a little overrated in the handling department.

This whole comparison is a little apples to oranges as the civic is/was based on a compact platform while DSM's were based on the midsize Galant platform. Really a better comparison would be Civic to EVO I.

[Civicnati0n]

Originally posted by .403white
I think its mike vs gary
And in that case neither due to driver error (turning left when its a right turn, accelerating on glenmore in instances where you should be braking) and it sounds unreal but completely natural to these two fine gentlemen

Haha I almost laughed, who is this? Don't be a guppy and talk shit online and come out to race city next week. It's funny cuz this isn't about me yet you had to come put in ur little two cents.

As for the question, it depends on the modifications. I have an EG but the year you mentioned is lighter so probably can stop, accelerate, and handle better...don't know much about talons.

[m10-power]

Originally posted by tsi_neal


And for the record there is a honda on street tires running 126.x, he made that with about 100hp less than the guy who ran the 128. That is just one example that im immeadiatly familiar with, there are certainly others that are running faster times on street rubber.

Who's running this honda and what is it? 1:26's is very fast for anything, let alone a fwd honda. 1:28's certainly isnt anything to claim record to since most any production sports car (real) will run that off the showroom.

[94boosted]

Originally posted by heavyD


What I find funny is the typical stereotype that DSM's were junk. Nowadays you mod any new turbocharged car and up the boost a few psi you need a proper ecu tune to ensure that you don't run lean and blow your engine.

In the old days (90's) people were purchasing old, used DSM's slapping on intakes, exhauts, DP's, test pipes and upping the boost as much as 5 psi with crude methods like manual boost controllers or EBC's. The common method of fuel modification was adding a Walbro 255 fuel pump and if you were into big turbochargers upgraded injectors with an SAFC tricking the ECU.

These crude methods yielded alot of fast cars and also alot of engine failures but considering that 99% of these cars never had a proper tune (most likely very poor tunes) and many lasted along time making big power I don't think these cars get enough credit for how tough they really were. Nowadays I see threads in evolutionm.net where someone adds an intake, test pipe, and exhaust and people are like OMG better get a tune asap or you will run lean and blow up your engine. Times certainly have changed.

I couldn't agree more. Hell I consider an SAFC a good tune for Talons I ran a big turbo (EVO III 16G) with just a GM MAF Translator, AF Guage and pocket logger for tuning/logging :rofl: And she worked well sort off

[blackpeople]

^^^ you sir were a cheap mofo just admit it:D

[heavyD]

Originally posted by 94boosted


I couldn't agree more. Hell I consider an SAFC a good tune for Talons I ran a big turbo (EVO III 16G) with just a GM MAF Translator, AF Guage and pocket logger for tuning/logging :rofl: And she worked well sort off

Yup I ran an FP Green with HKS 264/264 cams, SAFC, pocketlogger, 660 cc injectors, and a Walbro 255 pumps with other bolt on mods. Car ran like a champ except at idle. I don't think too many new cars would survive that crude tuning for long.