best point and shot camera for 500

[anhsicun]

im looking to buy my gf a new camera and was wondering what r some good point and shoot cameras out there for a 500.00 budget.

im looking for

- something that looks nice,
-can take pictures while things/ people r moving without blurring
- has a video recorder that can zoom in and out

she really likes the Sony Cyber-shot 10.2MP Digital Camera (TX5), sony cyber shot TX5 (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/sony-sony-cyber-shot-10-2mp-digital-camera-tx5-black-dsctx5b/10140932.aspx?path=85110e323524fe81653410bcbcdc619ben02), is this camera any good?

thanks

[Mitsu3000gt]

Is size an issue? Sounds like it might be if she likes the Sony TX5 which is a very slim camera.

Also I am not aware of any point & shoot camera that can track moving subjects well at all. Focus speed, shot-to-shot times and focus tracking (if available) are all generally quite poor on P&S cameras.

Video mode and looks should be easy to satisfy.

You have a ton of options, but if your GF wants to point & shoot action shots and also fit the camera in her pocket you won't find much without moving up into the DSLR range, or at least a small mirrorless SLR type camera.

[Clever]

I was at Vistek last week and the sales guy was doing a demo with the latest panasonic lumix, and it was pretty impressive, particularly the zoom and video, I know it was less than $500 but pretty close to it. The guy who bought it was a professional photographer from what I overheard have a look, sorry I can't give you the model number.

[dragonone]

ur ultimate choice will come down to several important criterias:

1) is waterproofing important?
2) how important do you think zoom is? (4x or 10x etc.)
3) image quality

1) canon d10, panasonic ts2, and the sony if looks are too important

2) panasonic zs7, sony hx5v, canon sx210IS

3) panasonic lx3, canon g11, canon s90

[sneek]

I really like the Canon S90! I personally have an LX3, but sometimes the lack of zoom sucks. For the most part it hasn't been an issue though. I think the S90 might be the best "all arounder".

[Neil4Speed]

Originally posted by sneek
I really like the Canon S90! I personally have an LX3, but sometimes the lack of zoom sucks. For the most part it hasn't been an issue though. I think the S90 might be the best "all arounder".

I have also heard great things about the S90.

[The_Rural_Juror]

The panasonic LX5 will be out soon. It might be worth the wait.

[Mitsu3000gt]

The S90 is great but perhaps not the best for someone looking to leave it in auto mode all the time. The S90 has full manual controls, can shoot raw, etc. I'm guessing it wouldn't be appreciated as much has some other cameras by someone intending to use it in the auto modes all the time. The $500 would likely be better utilized on some other features.

One option would be the Fuji F300 EXR which also uses phase detection AF so it may actually be able to keep up with moving subjects and also be a P&S camera. It also has a ton of other useful features like HD video, and all the bells and whistles like a big screen, face detection, face recognition, good zoom, IS, etc.

Also the Panasonic LX5 has been announced, so there could be a good deal on the LX3.

These days I probably wouldn't buy a P&S camera without at least a 1/2" or 1/1.6" sensor, there are enough of them around now.

What I find, at least with the people I know, is that a DSLR solves the problems everyone complains about in their cameras except of course size. People always ask me why their P&S pictures are grainy, why it takes so long shot-to shot, why they can't get good action shots, why their camera takes 3 seconds to take a picture, etc. Nobody likes the answer though lol.

[Str1der]

Panasonic LX5. $440 US, so should be ~$500 CAD when it hits the shelves in August.

[uptown.]

zs5 is pretty much the same as the zs7 just doesnt have gps
s90 is pretty sick! f/2.0! but lacks for zoom
or if you wanna spend a little more g10 or g11 larger sensors then most P&S

[shakalaka]

I don't know what mine is called, but it has two screens. One on the back and a small LCD on the front as well. When I got it, at the time, it was the only camera available with that feature. Not too sure now.

[anhsicun]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


What I find, at least with the people I know, is that a DSLR solves the problems everyone complains about in their cameras except of course size. People always ask me why their P&S pictures are grainy, why it takes so long shot-to shot, why they can't get good action shots, why their camera takes 3 seconds to take a picture, etc. Nobody likes the answer though lol.

wow u just nailed it right on, that abt everything my g/f complains abt her old camera. would the the Fuji F300 EXR, and the Panasonic LX5 solve any of the problems listed above?

also i talk to my g/f and she willing to sacrifice looks / and size a lil bit and willing to adventure into DSLR to able to do all this

- good action shots IE - take a picture of her friend dancing without blurring
- clear pictures
- to be able to do shot-to shot

-HD video recording with zoom that able to record 30 mins non-stop without a limit.
- capable of taking quick pictures
- if possible different colour choice then black

- something that not to complicated to use, and can be set in auto mode most of the time, unless she has to change it to take certain type of pictures.
- a good zoom range would be great
- waterproof and all those protection thing is not important


Budget - 500.00 - 600.00

also what other camera store is good to shop at beside bestbuy?

thanks

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by anhsicun


wow u just nailed it right on, that abt everything my g/f complains abt her old camera. would the the Fuji F300 EXR, and the Panasonic LX5 solve any of the problems listed above? thanks

DSLR's use an AF mode called phase detect and it is much quicker at obtaining focus and also adjusting in the proper direction with a moving subject. P&S cameras use contrast detect AF which is a slower process in most situations. The Fuji F300 was just announced so I don't think it's available for purchase just yet but it is the first P&S camera to have both contrast and phase detect AF - Fuji claims AF times are extremely fast. How well it can track subjects is yet to be seen, but I would imagine it to be much better than the typical P&S. The LX5 would not be an ideal camera for action shots.

As for the "grainy pictures" most P&S cameras have image sensors so small that when the ISO is raised above it's base ISO (Usually 80 or 100) there is visible noise or "grain" in the pictures. When placed in auto mode, P&S cameras are usually very willing to raise the ISO up to very high levels if the light gets poor, and you get a grainy image. DSLR's have sensors sometimes 10 or more times larger than the sensor in a P&S camera which allow them to gather light much better and produce noise free images at much higher ISO. The Fuji F300, Panasonic LX3/LX5, and several other P&S cameras use larger sensors than the typical P&S camera and as a result have pretty decent ISO performance but still nowhere near a DSLR.

Shot to shot time is better on the more expensive P&S cameras but even on the best ones it's still usually around 1 second or so. On a DSLR it is instant.


Originally posted by anhsicun

also i talk to my g/f and she willing to sacrifice looks / and size a lil bit and willing to adventure into DSLR to able to do all this thanks

- good action shots IE - take a picture of her friend dancing without blurring
- clear pictures
- to be able to do shot-to shotthanks

I find that blurry pictures with P&S cameras are a result of several things. First, people hold the camera out at arms length, where it is impossible to hold it steady. Secondly, if light conditions are fairly poor, P&S cameras have a harder time getting a quick and accurate focus lock. Also I find people try use the flash all the time, usually even with red eye reduction on which fires the flash multiple times before the picture to shrink the subject's pupils (increases shot to shot time). Typically P&S cameras default to a shutter speed of 1/60 when using flash and that will not capture action very well.

With a DSLR, good action shots will be dependent more on your lens than anything, especially if you are in poor light. In good light, nearly any lens will do just fine. As for clear pictures, that is entirely up to the photographer, as nearly any camera/lens combo is capable of a decent picture.



Originally posted by anhsicun

-HD video recording with zoom that able to record 30 mins non-stop without a limit.
- capable of taking quick pictures
- if possible different colour choice then blackthanks

HD video recording isn't on any cheap DSLR's yet, and none of them will record for 30 min, the time is usually capped at 5min.

Quick pictures is not a problem, even the cheapest DSLRs will usually take pictures at 3 pictures per second or more until the memory card is full.

Nearly all DSLRs are black.


Originally posted by anhsicun

- something that not to complicated to use, and can be set in auto mode most of the time, unless she has to change it to take certain type of pictures.
- a good zoom range would be great
- waterproof and all those protection thing is not important


Budget - 500.00 - 600.00thanks

All entry level DSLRs have an auto mode, and also scene modes such as portrait, landscape, etc.

The zoom is completely dependent on the lens(es) you have.

The higher end DSLRs and lenses are water resistant (i.e. rain) but none are waterproof.

The disadvantages of DSLR's, especially fro someone who wants a P&S, is of course size but also your "zoom" is dependent on the lens you buy, which could mean buying more lenses, which means carrying around more stuff. If size isn't a concern, even the cheapest DSLR will be much better technically than an expensive P&S camera.


Originally posted by anhsicun

also what other camera store is good to shop at beside bestbuy?

thanks

The Camera Store is the best place in town typically. Vistek will price match but their prices are usually high. I wouldn't recommend Black's or Seneal. The odd time Best Buy or Future Shop will have a good deal on an entry level DSLR as well.

They are above your budget but you may be interested in cameras like the Panasonic GF1, which kind of bridge the gap between a P&S camera and a DSLR. They lack a mirror box and as a result can be made very thin compared to a traditional DSLR.

[dragonone]

i would say an epl1 but the af on those things aren't the snappiest

they're about $500 new now

[anhsicun]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


They are above your budget but you may be interested in cameras like the Panasonic GF1, which kind of bridge the gap between a P&S camera and a DSLR. They lack a mirror box and as a result can be made very thin compared to a traditional DSLR.

wow the Panasonic GF1 looks very impressive and small, comes in 4 different colors but too bad only black in available in canada. this one seems to meet all my criteria but for $800.00 +, gotta think abt it. if i were to buy this camera should i be buying the 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Lens, or 20mm f/1.7 Lens? there quite bit price difference and should i go with the extra warranty since it such a expensive camera?

anyways thanks alot Mitsu3000gt for clarifying on all stuff about DSLR cameras vs P&S, been very help-full.

[clem24]

The LX3 does not zoom in movies. They are now about $430. They are way better than your average P&S. The sensor is bigger, but still a far cry from a real DSLR. It's a very snappy camera, and has a very fast lens. It will solve most of your issues for you, except for the zoom in movies. However, the LX5 *will* support this feature. These cameras are also small enough that they will fit in a purse. Pictures on this camera are not as grainy as most P&S, but it's still there.

The LX3 does have object tracking as well as face tracking, and face tracking actually works very well. The AF on this camera is also quicker than your average P&S. Another great thing of the LX3 is the wide angle. Your GF will love it's coverage and the fact that at full wide, it's a f/2.0.

The GF1 is a great camera, but, it is big. Your GF will most likely not like it if she expects to be able to just stick it in her purse. I think it's a great camera if you're a photographer type cause you'll definitely sacrifice the size for great IQ and quick AF, but for the casual person, especially a girl going out on the town with her friends, it's definitely a heavy weight. I'd recommend going down to the Camera Store or Black's to hold it, put it in her purse, etc... Focus on this camera is extremely fast and pictures are not grainy at all. If you do go with the GF1, skip the 14-45 and get just the 20mm. At $799 currently (Blacks, including 20mm), it's a great deal and your GF will be amazed at how fast it focuses.

GF1 also has face tracking as well as the ability to memorize specific faces and sets priority to that face if 2 or more are in the frame. This is seriously a great feature! The object tracking is alright. Sometimes it tends to lose the object if you track it too long (i.e. let's say you start at their head and eventually the tracking moves down to their crotch). Another positive of the GF1 is the bigger sensor which gives better depth of field (i.e. she can achieve that "professional blurry background" look, especially with the stock 20mm lens).

Anyway I think these are both great choices. I've had the LX3 for over a year now and I am still in love with it, but now the GF1 is getting all my attention. It's much quicker than the LX3 is all respects, but the lens is less versatile and of course, it's much heavier and bulkier. If you decide to go with the LX3, I'd wait for the LX5 to get zoom in movies and a more versatile lens as most people find the tele end to be somewhat lacking.

Another cam to consider is the Sony NEX-5. It's going for $775 right now at Blacks with 18-55 lens. It's even smaller than the GF1, has a bigger sensor (APS-C sized instead of the small mFT) for even less grainy images, can do full 1080 video, and is just as quick in all departments as the GF1, EXCEPT user interface. The UI on it sucks if you're a photographer, but if all she is going to do is leave it in auto mode, then it might be the perfect camera. Black's at Market has them in. It's seriously an impressive machine.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by anhsicun


wow the Panasonic GF1 looks very impressive and small, comes in 4 different colors but too bad only black in available in canada. this one seems to meet all my criteria but for $800.00 +, gotta think abt it. if i were to buy this camera should i be buying the 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Lens, or 20mm f/1.7 Lens? there quite bit price difference and should i go with the extra warranty since it such a expensive camera?

anyways thanks alot Mitsu3000gt for clarifying on all stuff about DSLR cameras vs P&S, been very help-full.

The 20mm f1.7 lens is better (lets in more light and is physically smaller) but it has no zoom - that might not be OK with your GF. Your feet are your zoom with that lens. The 14-45 will get you a nice ~3.2X zoom range but it is a larger lens making the whole package larger, and it doesn't let in as much light as the 20mm (aperture's can't open as wide). It's kind of a trade off, as you can see.

I would never buy a camera warranty. All of them have at least a year from the manufacturer and the vast majority of them are overall extremely reliable. Also I'm pretty sure when best buy or whatever sends your camera out for repair it isn't going to the manufacturer, it's going to wherever they can repair it for dirt cheap. As for physical damage to the camera, the warranty won't cover that but your home contents insurance very well might - something to look into.

At this point, my advice to you is to head down to The Camera Store with your GF and start handling some cameras. I would suggest looking at the following and getting a feel for their size:

Panasonic GF-1 w/ 20mm and 14-42.

Nikon D3000 w/ 18-55 VR Kit lens (real DSLR but very small by DSLR standards)

Panasonic LX3 (if she likes it, wait for the LX5)

Sony NEX 3 & 5 (with 16mm and 18-55 lenses)

Try put them in her purse, handling them, changing settings, etc.

The small fixed focal length lenses (i.e. the 20mm pancake on the Panasonic GF1) are what keeps these cameras really nice and small, but you sacrifice the ability to zoom. As soon as you start putting bigger lenses on it, you should also take a hard look at a real DSLR because they are closer in size and superior in every way except size to the other cameras listed here. It doesn't matter how good it is if your GF never takes it with her though.

Wherever you go make sure you shop your prices around or at least price match, places like Black's can have good deals sometimes but also often charge ridiculous prices on other items. Just a word of caution.

[G-Suede]

Some context (relative sensor size in orange):

http://i30.tinypic.com/n4hap2.jpg

[Mitsu3000gt]

That's an excellent image summary, it would be better if it had a full DSLR on it though for more perspective. Anyways it shows the OP that the lens can turn a small camera into a big one pretty quick.

[cls63amg]

Originally posted by Neil4Speed


I have also heard great things about the S90.

Nobody gives a shit what you heard.

[ryuen]

Keep in mind the S90 does not have HD video, and only digital zoom is available during movie mode (SD resolution + digital zoom = :barf: )

[dragonone]

Originally posted by clem24

Another cam to consider is the Sony NEX-5. It's going for $775 right now at Blacks with 18-55 lens. It's even smaller than the GF1, has a bigger sensor (APS-C sized instead of the small mFT) for even less grainy images, can do full 1080 video, and is just as quick in all departments as the GF1, EXCEPT user interface.

the noise control on the NEX5 is way too strong. sure it's less grainy, but you're losing detail

beautiful camera though

[clem24]

Originally posted by dragonone
the noise control on the NEX5 is way too strong. sure it's less grainy, but you're losing detail

And do you honestly think this is an issue for OP or his GF? Or even anyone other than pixel peepers? :banghead:

[sneek]

Originally posted by clem24
....Anyway I think these are both great choices. I've had the LX3 for over a year now and I am still in love with it, but now the GF1 is getting all my attention. It's much quicker than the LX3 is all respects, but the lens is less versatile and of course, it's much heavier and bulkier. If you decide to go with the LX3, I'd wait for the LX5 to get zoom in movies and a more versatile lens as most people find the tele end to be somewhat lacking.


We must have the same taste in cameras! I have had the LX3 for a couple years and love it, but I don't think I'll get an LX5 anytime soon.

The 20MM lens on the GF1 is just awesome. It really reminded me of how fun taking pictures is! -Perhaps it isn't the most practical camera if you only have the 20MM, but for a lot of the shooting that I do (just for fun) it is a great package.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Can't you shoot in RAW (or equivalent) for the NEX-5s? That should take out the NR settings right?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror
Can't you shoot in RAW (or equivalent) for the NEX-5s? That should take out the NR settings right?

That is correct, it can shoot RAW and doing so removes the in-camera NR.

[G-Suede]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
That's an excellent image summary, it would be better if it had a full DSLR on it though for more perspective. Anyways it shows the OP that the lens can turn a small camera into a big one pretty quick.

This is the best I can do:

http://i32.tinypic.com/2edtowz.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/15xtp48.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/28w037n.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/jl5tsi.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/256aeyf.jpg

http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/PanasonicGF1/images/gf1compared.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/crvw0.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/23r1x1d.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/xqhys0.jpg

http://www.nightanddayphoto.ca/misc/forumpics/beyond/gf1/DSC_4134.JPG

http://www.nightanddayphoto.ca/misc/forumpics/beyond/gf1/DSC_4137.JPG

http://www.nightanddayphoto.ca/misc/forumpics/beyond/gf1/DSC_4136.JPG

[dragonone]

Originally posted by clem24


And do you honestly think this is an issue for OP or his GF? Or even anyone other than pixel peepers? :banghead:

would you pick the NEX5 over the LX3 or GF1? I'd pick the GF1 over it, and even the epl1 if budget is a concern

you don't need to be a pixel peeper to see how the details are smeared. but maybe there's an option in camera to turn it off:dunno:

[Grogador]

I just picked up a G11 and while it is a great camera, I'm kind of regretting my purchase. This was my first camera purchase in a long time and I wanted to break out of the crappy performance (low light and optical zoom, specifically) of my previous P&S cameras. I was really contemplating the SX20IS but decided to give up the 20x lens and go a little smaller/more portable. Unfortunately I didn't know of any decent camera shops where I was in the USA so it was nearly impossible to play with much of the competitor's products. It also seems like fall is when manufacturers generally release their new lineup...

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Grogador
I just picked up a G11 and while it is a great camera, I'm kind of regretting my purchase. This was my first camera purchase in a long time and I wanted to break out of the crappy performance (low light and optical zoom, specifically) of my previous P&S cameras. I was really contemplating the SX20IS but decided to give up the 20x lens and go a little smaller/more portable. Unfortunately I didn't know of any decent camera shops where I was in the USA so it was nearly impossible to play with much of the competitor's products. It also seems like fall is when manufacturers generally release their new lineup...

The G11 is a very capable little camera. Same sensor as the S90. What do you wish you had bought instead?

[anhsicun]

we finally narrowed down to the top three she would actually use all the time

1 - panasonic lx5 - were gonna look at the lx3 1st and if she likes it, we'll wait for the lx5 which comes out in august 2010 apparently.

2 - panasonic Gf1 - she really loves wat this camera can do , but only dislike it due to no zoom with the 20mm lense which makes the camera very small and compact vs the 14 -45 mm.

3. fujiflim - from the spec sheet, it looks like it a straight competitor with the panasonic lx5 but looks alot nicer and it will also be release in august 2010.

she decide she doesn't want a true DSLR since most of them are big with big lenses and with her other stuff, that would be too much to carry around in her purse.

i'll keep u guys posted on which one she buy. thanks again for all the great info.:)

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by anhsicun
we finally narrowed down to the top three she would actually use all the time

1 - panasonic lx5 - were gonna look at the lx3 1st and if she likes it, we'll wait for the lx5 which comes out in august 2010 apparently.

2 - panasonic Gf1 - she really loves wat this camera can do , but only dislike it due to no zoom with the 20mm lense which makes the camera very small and compact vs the 14 -45 mm.

3. fujiflim - from the spec sheet, it looks like it a straight competitor with the panasonic lx5 but looks alot nicer and it will also be release in august 2010.

she decide she doesn't want a true DSLR since most of them are big with big lenses and with her other stuff, that would be too much to carry around in her purse.

i'll keep u guys posted on which one she buy. thanks again for all the great info.:)

Can't go wrong with anything you listed, but the GF1 is going to be a noticeable step up from the other 2, particularly in focus speed and having less noise at higher ISOs. Also keep in mind if these action shots she is hoping to take are in a poorly lit environment, it's going to be difficult regardless. Good luck!

[Grogador]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
The G11 is a very capable little camera. Same sensor as the S90. What do you wish you had bought instead?

Something smaller (wtf do I need a built-in optical viewfinder for anyway?) maybe even with a better lens, anything that's going to come out in the next month or two? Mainly I'm sad that I didn't get to play with any of the competition.