Scrap the Long Gun Registry

[broken_legs]

http://www.scraptheregistry.ca/

40 Days till the vote.

Voice you support to your MP and tell Ignatieff and Layton to let their MPs vote freely. Whipping the caucuses and forcing MPs to vote agianst the wishes of their constituents should be criminal.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by broken_legs
http://www.scraptheregistry.ca/

40 Days till the vote.

Voice you support to your MP and tell Ignatieff and Layton to let their MPs vote freely. Whipping the caucuses and forcing MPs to vote agianst the wishes of their constituents should be criminal.

And how exactly do you know the wishes of your constituents? Do you want direct democracy with voting for all topics like the greeks?

Anyways I don't get why conservatives are opposed to the registry while at the same time being tough on crime and loving the police. You know I figure the long gun registry is likely to be quite a nice thing for the police to know before they respond to a call. I know I would like to know if the house I am about to enter is filled with guns regardless of if they are hand guns or long guns they both have the same power to kill...

[97'Scort]

I don't mind it one bit. I found the whole registration process efficient and simple, which is more than I can say for most government programs.

[rage2]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
Anyways I don't get why conservatives are opposed to the registry while at the same time being tough on crime and loving the police. You know I figure the long gun registry is likely to be quite a nice thing for the police to know before they respond to a call. I know I would like to know if the house I am about to enter is filled with guns regardless of if they are hand guns or long guns they both have the same power to kill...
That would work if criminals actually registered their guns...

[CUG]

^word.

Keep the PAL requirements, but get rid of that f-ing registry setup completely.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


And how exactly do you know the wishes of your constituents? Do you want direct democracy with voting for all topics like the greeks?

Anyways I don't get why conservatives are opposed to the registry while at the same time being tough on crime and loving the police. You know I figure the long gun registry is likely to be quite a nice thing for the police to know before they respond to a call. I know I would like to know if the house I am about to enter is filled with guns regardless of if they are hand guns or long guns they both have the same power to kill...


You seem to be misinformed.

Constituents have contacted their MPs en masse and voiced their discontent with the Long Gun Registry. Many Liberal and NDP MPs broke party lines and voted against the registry because its what their constituents have asked them to do. Now Jack Layton and Ignatieff are threatening to whip the vote and force their MPs to vote the party line despite the wishes of the MPs constituents. That is the most undemocratic thing I have ever heard of.

Furthermore, before the registry police could already check to see if the people that live there have an FAC (or PAL) - Which tells them they are law abiding likely firearms owners. The registry will NOT tell police if a person is a criminal, or if that person has an illegal weapon. It only vilifies law abiding Canadian citizens.

Registering individual firearms is the first step to confiscation. And its already happening in Canada. But then again, thats probably what most city dwelling metro-sexuals want because "guns are scary"

[Antonito]

Originally posted by 97'Scort
I don't mind it one bit. I found the whole registration process efficient and simple, which is more than I can say for most government programs. And yet it cost 2 billion dollars when it should have only cost a fraction of that.

The better question now is, how much is it costing to maintain? If it will continue to hemorage money, then yes, scrap it immediately. If the cost is proven to be minimal (and not just promises that the cost will go down, but how much is it costing right now to maintain) then they should keep it. Why through away something that is somewhat usefull and has already been paid for?

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Antonito
Why through away something that is somewhat usefull and has already been paid for?

Please post examples and evidence of "somewhat" useful.

To date I haven't seen any.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[hampstor]

I am so sick of people supporting this purely for partisan reasons.

People just need to look beyond the blue/red colours and see that despite good intentions, some legislation in practice is executed piss fucking poor.

How can anyone equate, "Tough on crime" with making criminals out of responsible firearms owners who have done nothing wrong?

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


And how exactly do you know the wishes of your constituents? Do you want direct democracy with voting for all topics like the greeks?

Anyways I don't get why conservatives are opposed to the registry while at the same time being tough on crime and loving the police. You know I figure the long gun registry is likely to be quite a nice thing for the police to know before they respond to a call. I know I would like to know if the house I am about to enter is filled with guns regardless of if they are hand guns or long guns they both have the same power to kill...

I'm more worried about the people who illegally acquired them and intend to use them, not so much those who should have them.

The whole thing is an enormous waste of money, scrap it.

[derpderp]

Things like this make me wish we had a more American style democracy, this thing would have been ditched years ago by a voter plebiscite in the USA.

[CUG]

They should back off on some of the storage legislation too. The current one should only be in effect if there are children or unlicensed individuals living in the home.

Otherwise, I guess driving serrated scissors through your intruders eye socket, and out the back of his skull will have to suffice.

[calgary403]

Originally posted by phil98z24


I'm more worried about the people who illegally acquired them and intend to use them, not so much those who should have them.

The whole thing is an enormous waste of money, scrap it.

From what I've read the province of Alberta will not prosecute people who legally acquire firearms and do not register them. Is there any truth to this?

[derpderp]

Originally posted by calgary403


From what I've read the province of Alberta will not prosecute people who legally acquire firearms and do not register them. Is there any truth to this?

From what I've read a number of police associations were against the registry. I think it would depend on the officer you end up with, there is no sure way to say you won't get charged but likely you'll only get in trouble if you're already doing illegal acts, like in Vancouver you can still get brought down for Marijuana but it is likely just because you're a criminal they are after and need a reason to arrest you.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by derpderp


From what I've read a number of police associations were against the registry. I think it would depend on the officer you end up with, there is no sure way to say you won't get charged but likely you'll only get in trouble if you're already doing illegal acts, like in Vancouver you can still get brought down for Marijuana but it is likely just because you're a criminal they are after and need a reason to arrest you.


From the hearings on C391:


Police Chief in Saskatchewan testified that they polled their members and 99% of them said that the registry was a waste and should be scrapped.

So far they are the ONLY police association to actually poll its members.

The other police associations are more like lobby groups, and there's politics involved.

Dok7aaJ70gk


Rex Murphy for PM!

I've been watching this guy since i was a kid on CBC. He just makes sense.
4XOmUXycDPs


This is the grizzled face of the anti-gun lobby in Canada. Her arguments are not based on facts and she consistently misrepresents the truth.

She is currently proposing that ALL RIFLES CAPABLE OF SHOOTING PAST 100M SHOULD BE RESTRICTED. Despite there never being a death from a "sniper" rifle in Canada, she is saying that all guns capable of shooting accurately past 100m are dangerous "sniper" rifles and should be prohibited in case someone decides to go on a sniper killing spree. No more hunting for anyone then... shit my 22 shoots to 300m.

oMxwsA4Kbwc

Note Here:
She says gun owners feel demonized for having to have a license, like driving a car.

Thats not the issue. Gun owners are already licensed and pass invasive security screening, have their friends interviewed etc.. The process to get your PAL takes months.

Gun owners are actually upset about the registry - Which as history has shown Over and Over and Over again, is the first step to confiscation by the government. (see below)

TkS2BRoCd2I

[CUG]

Broken Legs for PM!!

[derpderp]

Great post Broken Legs, thank you.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by rage2

That would work if criminals actually registered their guns...

Yeah because it's only criminals you have to worry about when you are raiding a home. :rolleyes: You don't have to worry about the nutter who has guns but just hasn't landed on the radar or the guy who just decided to off his family with his guns. Plus yeah we really need those guns for defense! Oh yeah! Considering that most gun deaths in Canada are accidental or suicides... Clearly there is no reason to require people to safely stow their guns I mean we might save a couple lives a year. Oh the horror!

You all sound like a bunch of loonie Americans. Oh noes they are going to take away my guns! Please... All it means is that the cops know when there is a gun on the premises before they enter your home. It's not like anyone is advocating banning guns. It just means you register your damn weapons.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


Yeah because it's only criminals you have to worry about when you are raiding a home. :rolleyes:



By definition someone whos going to break a law with a firearm is a criminal. What exactly are you saying? That criminals are criminals? We all agree with you.



You don't have to worry about the nutter who has guns but just hasn't landed on the radar or the guy who just decided to off his family with his guns.


Do you actually think that registering firearms is somehow going to give the police an edge in this respect? What police officer checks teh registry to see if theres guns first before raiding a house? What police officer takes "extra" precautions if they think there are firearms? Every situation they respond to theya ssume there are firearms. They can already check to see if people have a PAL - The gun registry gives no additional information.



Plus yeah we really need those guns for defense! Oh yeah!


^^^ Looks like you believe that guns can only be used to defend against guns??? I guess if a knife weilding rapist breaks into your house while your at work and attacks your wife, you expect her to get a knife of equal size to defend herself. You have got to be kidding right???



Considering that most gun deaths in Canada are accidental or suicides...


Most gun deaths are suicides.
The next biggest cause is homicides with illegal guns.
The smallest cause is accidents.

Please get your facts straight.

Also, please tell us how registering firearms is going to stop people from killing themselves.




Clearly there is no reason to require people to safely stow their guns I mean we might save a couple lives a year. Oh the horror!


Bill C-17 was enacted in 1992 that requires training and storage laws. This has nothing to do with the registry.



You all sound like a bunch of loonie Americans. Oh noes they are going to take away my guns! Please... All it means is that the cops know when there is a gun on the premises before they enter your home.


Please ask a police officer what the registry means. You are misinformed. See comments above about already knowing if someone has a PAL. No gun will be registered to a person without a PAL. How is this helping anything?



It's not like anyone is advocating banning guns. It just means you register your damn weapons. [/B]

Actually you are wrong. Guns are currently being confiscated due to the registry. See T97 Rifle.

People are already required to take lengthy background checks, training, and provide personal character witnesses to get a PAL.

How is a piece of paper going to add an additional layer of safety?

None of your arguments are backed by facts, and you are sensationalizing and generalizing everything. Before you decide to vote to take away the rights of law abiding people maybe you owe it first to them, and next to yourself to actually research and understand WTF you are talking about.

The information is all out there for you to find.

[SKR]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


Yeah because it's only criminals you have to worry about when you are raiding a home. :rolleyes: You don't have to worry about the nutter who has guns but just hasn't landed on the radar or the guy who just decided to off his family with his guns. Plus yeah we really need those guns for defense! Oh yeah! Considering that most gun deaths in Canada are accidental or suicides... Clearly there is no reason to require people to safely stow their guns I mean we might save a couple lives a year. Oh the horror!

You all sound like a bunch of loonie Americans. Oh noes they are going to take away my guns! Please... All it means is that the cops know when there is a gun on the premises before they enter your home. It's not like anyone is advocating banning guns. It just means you register your damn weapons.

I used to be like you, regarding the people who were one fuck up away from snapping. I didn't want guns in their hands.

But, when you think about it, nobody is carrying around a .30-30 down main street, and the guy that goes murder-suicide isn't going to give a shit about whether or not his gun is registered if he doesn't give a shit about killing his family. In the first case, registration won't help because you can't carry a rifle in public anyway. And in the second, registration is a fairly minor issue when you're crazy. So an expensive, pain in the ass program does nothing to help there.

And the third, about police knowing whether or not you're armed before they storm your house, I don't think that relying on that information is a good idea. So what if they do their research and the owner of the home doesn't have any registered rifles. That's a dumb way to do business. The smart way would be to assume the owner or occupant is armed, because why the fuck wouldn't you. So the registry program is redundant. Furthermore, I don't know what is encompassed by "long gun", but all rifles would fall under that category and you'd be a total fuckhead to look at a .308 as a suitable defence against home invasion like it's the goddamn Alamo.

I don't want people walking around like cowboys with six shooters on their hip. There's a reason we don't do that, and that reason is because it would be a retarded way to live. But the gun registry doesn't address that, so why bother?

[CUG]

Originally posted by SKR


words That's an air-tight rebuttal. Good post. (I still HATE SC though)

[Freeskier]

Originally posted by broken_legs
Actually you are wrong. Guns are currently being confiscated due to the registry. See T97 Rifle.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt15/cocofong/t-97RIFLE.jpg

sweet jesus, I'm alright with the general public having restricted access to that lol.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Freeskier


http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt15/cocofong/t-97RIFLE.jpg

sweet jesus, I'm alright with the general public having restricted access to that lol.


Not sure what that is, but its not a T97 (although it does appear in google images... ;) )


A t-97:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/type-97-a-004.jpg


Just a semi-automatic rifle limited to 5 round clips, like every other semi automatic rifle in Canada.

It was allowed under restricted and non-restricted status (depending on the barrel length) and people put up big money to buy these.

Then 3 years later the RCMP came back and said the guns are now prohibited (wont explain why) and started confiscating them without compensation. Theft by Government.

This just happened this year btw...

[derpderp]

I caught my wife cheating one day, bitch be lucky I didn't have my rifle registered or I would have went "nutter" on her and the responding officers.

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


You don't have to worry about the nutter who has guns but just hasn't landed on the radar or the guy who just decided to off his family with his guns.


I think generally if a nutter is going to off there family, they're going to do it regardless if they have a firearm.

Maybe we should start registering knives also?

[rage2]

Originally posted by Anomaly
I think generally if a nutter is going to off there family, they're going to do it regardless if they have a firearm.

Maybe we should start registering knives also?
And forks too! :rofl:

If a nutter is going to shoot his family with a gun, in order for the cops to know to raid the place, they would've gotten a call regarding a nutter taking out his family with guns. Registry still serves no purpose.

[Freeskier]

Don't know enough about the legislation, but would this registry help police identify suspects after a crime has been committed if they recover a firearm?

[StupidWade]

Originally posted by Freeskier
Don't know enough about the legislation, but would this registry help police identify suspects after a crime has been committed if they recover a firearm?

Yes, as long as three things are true.

1. The gun must be registered to the person who commits the crime.

2. That person must commit the crime despite an RCMP background check showing that he or she is not prone to committing crimes.

3. That person must leave the gun where the police can find it, knowing full well that they might as well also leave a business card and copy of their driver's licence along with the gun.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but it'd probably be pretty rare.

[Duckman]

Originally posted by rage2

And forks too! :rofl:


Don't forget the choice of fatso daughter killers, the deadly and under estimated scarf!

[Mitsu3000gt]

Some of the replies here are just hilarious. Some people just have no F'ing clue whatsoever about firearms, PAL's, or how useless the registry is.

The most common argument I hear is having the police know they are entering the home of a gun owner, but as previously mentioned more than once, the PAL tells the police that and that registry is still useless.

It's funny that this is illegal:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/type-97-a-004.jpg

But this isn't...in fact it's not even restricted, you can store it in your closet at home with minimal security, and drive around the country side with it in the back window of your truck all day long if you like.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/tavor_02.jpg

Both bullpulp design, both limited to 5 rounds and semi-auto.

Also for the record, every police officer I know thinks the registry is useless.