Pakistan Flood Relif - Should Canada contribute?

[darkone00]

Vote

[darkone00]

They are shaking up Bin Laden, Al Zarqawi in four star villas, quietly funding the Taliban, and turning a blind eye with what is going on along their border with Afghanistan. Why are we giving any of these people money? :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

[Godfuader]

Originally posted by darkone00
They are shaking up Bin Laden, Al Zarqawi in four star villas, quietly funding the Taliban, and turning a blind eye with what is going on along their border with Afghanistan. Why are we giving any of these people money? :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
Glad to see CNN/Fox News teaches you everything you know. :thumbsup:

[black13]

oh ffs... I don't even know how to respond to this.

[Amysicle]

I'm just a bit confused by the poll. Yes, we owe it to them!

What exactly do we "owe" to them?

If it's merely helping out other countries in need after a natural disaster, how much do we (as Canadians) give and where do we draw the line?

[dandia89]

Originally posted by darkone00
They are shaking up Bin Laden, Al Zarqawi in four star villas, quietly funding the Taliban, and turning a blind eye with what is going on along their border with Afghanistan. Why are we giving any of these people money? :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

i'm sure all of the people affected did all of that

[charizard]

There have been a ton of ignorant and just plain dumb threads made on beyond, especially recently, but this one by far takes the cake. Wow, it's really quite sad there are people like you in the world.

For your sake I'm hoping this is a troll account and you're not really as ignorant as you sound.

[CUG]

Originally posted by Godfuader

Glad to see CNN/Fox News teaches you everything you know. :thumbsup: Just a question, not accusatory, or agitating, but; do you know otherwise?

[masoncgy]

Not to derail the thread by any means, but isn't al-Zarqawi dead? lol...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/08/AR2006060800114.html

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by Godfuader

Glad to see CNN/Fox News teaches you everything you know. :thumbsup:

:facepalm:

Well, since we're being judgemental (again) then MSNBC and CBS must teach you everything you know.



Back to the topic though, nice Troll Poll.

[Godfuader]

Originally posted by freshprince1


:facepalm:

Well, since we're being judgemental (again) then MSNBC and CBS must teach you everything you know.

Was poking fun at trolling OP.

Somewhat irrelevant sidebar: I try to verify my information based on actual people who are involved in the specific scenario when possible.

[Godfuader]

.

[KuruptEX]

its funny how politics creeps its way into every debate. Damn i totally forgot Pakistan is full of terrorists. There's no children, old people and innocent people that live there right?

[G-ZUS]

Originally posted by KuruptEX
its funny how politics creeps its way into every debate. Damn i totally forgot Pakistan is full of terrorists. There's no children, old people and innocent people that live there right?

Nope they all got shipped out of the country and now it's only terrorists living there

[CUG]

Originally posted by Godfuader

Was poking fun at trolling OP.

Somewhat irrelevant sidebar: I try to verify my information based on actual people who are involved in the specific scenario when possible. But just to be 110% clear, you're probably not involved directly, or indirectly with the agencies, governments, or people in question?

I'm not laying heat down, but I believe almost nothing of any media presented scenario from either side.

[ChappedLips]

Originally posted by KuruptEX
Damn i totally forgot Pakistan is full of terrorists. There's no children, old people and innocent people that live there right?

There are cab drivers and terrorists, that's about it

[thetransporter]

why is like every thread on here anti muslim??

[idioteque]

Because muslims are, by definition, fucking idiots.

[broken_legs]

When a country like Canada commits 100 million dollars in relief to some disaster stricken country, all we are doing is pledging money.

We rarely if ever fully follow through with the promise of money pledged.


So I say "yes we owe it to them" to pledge a bunch of money and then like every other country we pledge to, not actually pay them anything.

My favourite is when we take credit for being one fo the first countries to respond to some crisis and pledge money. We get all teh credit without actually doing anything.

Good job Canada :thumsbup:

[thetransporter]

Originally posted by idioteque
Because muslims are, by definition, fucking idiots.

+1 ban

[CUG]

Originally posted by idioteque
Because muslims are, by definition, fucking idiots. You've been a member here for a while now.. that's too bad. I guess you can go and awkwardly look at your butthole in a mirror now.

[Donmega]

Lol....you've been seen out by CUG hahah

[Melinda]

This poll is ridiculous. We either 'owe' them or hate them? I don't hate them but I certainly don't think Canada owes them anything. What exactly has put us into debt with this country that makes us owe them anything? Because we're all human and part of the same world, Canada should help if we can, but I don't think I'd be all up in arms about it if they chose not to.

[arian_ma]

The poll is stupid and I'm sure it was worded that way to stir up debate, but what I really think is no we don't owe Pakistan as a country shit, but we do owe any other living (and peaceful) human being a chance to get back on their feet, because when comparing a vast majority of other people in this world to myself or most other people living in Canada, I'd say we have it pretty damn amazing and should be counting our blessings for living in damn near the best country in the world.

IMO, this is just a case of people (who have the means and the will) giving to other people (who are in despair and are suffering). No one cares about shit in this world any more and any act of good faith goes a long way.

[jazzyb]

the poll is dumb........

we don't owe to them, but we owe it to our "higher" standing in world society.

[A790]

Originally posted by idioteque
Because muslims are, by definition, fucking idiots. nin

Nice custom user title you got there. :)

[CUG]

Originally posted by Donmega
Lol....you've been seen out by CUG hahah Actually, I think that's more A790's flavour of execution. I'm not a mod.

Really, have your opinion, but if it's disgustingly bigoted, maybe keep it candid. That only makes sense. Do you tell some butch gorilla chick that she looks like a parade float to her face?

[heavyD]

Nope. We owe them nothing and they deserve nothing. There has to be consequences for their actions and while many innocents pay the price for it the their own leaders are to blame not Canadians.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by A790
nin

Nice custom user title you got there. :)

bwhahahahaa...

Boy, I bet that felt good eh?

[CUG]

Originally posted by codetrap


bwhahahahaa...

Boy, I bet that felt good eh? I thought my parting words were in the f-ing zone though, come on..

[A790]

I axed him at about 1 am when I read that. As CUG said, you can be as bigoted and ignorant as you want... just keep it to yourself.

CUG, by the way... great post ;)

[Modelexis]

I know a man that was born in Pakistan and left when he was maybe 15 yrs old.

His opinion is that they should bulldoze all of Pakistan and bomb the entire place and start over. Basically destroy Pakistan entirely.

I was born in Canada and propagandized to hate easterners but yet still would never think of wishing death on a nation.

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by A790
nin

Nice custom user title you got there. :)

Scat19/330 banned again?! http://i.imgur.com/BzsoJ.gif

[dirtsniffer]

i thought idioteque was 'nonlinear' trying to comeback after he got caught killing a puppy or something

[beyond_ban]

I wonder where scat and nonlinear lurk...

[CUG]

I'm going to an info-graphic on perceived political stereotypes.

[arian_ma]

whoa whoa who tried to kill a puppy??

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
i thought idioteque was 'nonlinear' trying to comeback after he got caught killing a puppy or something

??


Originally posted by heavyD
Nope. We owe them nothing and they deserve nothing. There has to be consequences for their actions and while many innocents pay the price for it the their own leaders are to blame not Canadians.

I agree with this view.

[gstone]

Has Canada considered providing flood relief to Europe this summer?

[Melinda]

Our premiere just made an announcement that Alberta will be giving $500,000 to the canadian red cross to assist with aiding Pakistan.

[JMaj7]

The majority of the Pakistani population that has been affected by the flooding has very little influence on the governments decisions. Neither the Pakistani people nor the government really support Al-Qaeda and are victims of the same terrorist acts that are commited in the name of Allah. Whether or not the Pakistani Government/Military/Secret Service has any ties with Al-Qaeda is anybody's guess. The majority of the population is too broke to be concerned about politics. So the corrupt remain in power and deal with macroeconomic and political concerns and accumulate wealth while making shit decisions. India, on the other hand, empowered the poor and ended up eliminating a good portion of its poverty because the Indian Government was accountable to the people.
This disaster has left 14 million people homeless. Most of these people are farmers and craftsmen. Agriculture and Islam is all they know. They attribute suffering to the same trials that all religion teaches us to endure. It is very sad to see that the actions of a few can taint one's impression of 14 million people.

[Godfuader]

Canada feels the same way as the poll. Why support people who live in the same country as terrorists? People in Pakistan are the worst hit by the terrorist...now the world sees no difference between the perpetrators and victims...shame.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/why-western-donors-are-snubbing-pakistan-after-giving-to-haiti/article1675172/

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Godfuader
Canada feels the same way as the poll. Why support people who live in the same country as terrorists? People in Pakistan are the worst hit by the terrorist...now the world sees no difference between the perpetrators and victims...shame.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/why-western-donors-are-snubbing-pakistan-after-giving-to-haiti/article1675172/

Shame on the Pakistan government but not the rest of the world. Sure some innocent Pakistan citizens will pay the price but how many victims around the world pay the price every day for terrorism? Sorry but there's a reason that people aren't sympathetic and a damn good one. This is all on the Pakistan government.

[revelations]

We should not give them money - it will not be used for good.

Instead, we should give them the tools, knowledge and the training required to slowly build a society that can take care of itself - and elect people in office who can actually manage a country instead of corrupt it.

[Godfuader]

Originally posted by heavyD


Shame on the Pakistan government but not the rest of the world. Sure some innocent Pakistan citizens will pay the price but how many victims around the world pay the price every day for terrorism? Sorry but there's a reason that people aren't sympathetic and a damn good one. This is all on the Pakistan government.
14 Million Pakistani's that are affected by the floods are the same that are affected exponentially more by the terrorists on a daily basis. Basically they should pay the price, for something that is a real problem for them? :(

[WhippWhapp]

Would Pakistan come to our aid if we needed?

[dandia89]

some of the dumbest posts in this thread, especially the one above

[Nusc]

Originally posted by JMaj7
The majority of the Pakistani population that has been affected by the flooding has very little influence on the governments decisions. Neither the Pakistani people nor the government really support Al-Qaeda and are victims of the same terrorist acts that are commited in the name of Allah. Whether or not the Pakistani Government/Military/Secret Service has any ties with Al-Qaeda is anybody's guess. The majority of the population is too broke to be concerned about politics. So the corrupt remain in power and deal with macroeconomic and political concerns and accumulate wealth while making shit decisions. India, on the other hand, empowered the poor and ended up eliminating a good portion of its poverty because the Indian Government was accountable to the people.
This disaster has left 14 million people homeless. Most of these people are farmers and craftsmen. Agriculture and Islam is all they know. They attribute suffering to the same trials that all religion teaches us to endure. It is very sad to see that the actions of a few can taint one's impression of 14 million people.


Originally posted by Godfuader
Canada feels the same way as the poll. Why support people who live in the same country as terrorists?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11007694

We should help Pakistan. With millions of people displaced they become potential targets for terrorist recruitment. People should also be concerned with the possible threat of spreading disease.

Since we are engaged in combat operations, it would be essential to improve alliances with Pakistan after it deteriorated from U.S. airstrikes.

[Godfuader]

This is an excerpt from what my wife sent out to her contacts at various UN missions and other potential donors:

For those who are considering donating to agencies working in the field, may I suggest reaching out to the Aga Khan Foundation. Unlike many other organizations who use a portion of the funds raised to cover administrative costs, 100% of funds raised by AKF go directly to the projects they are working on. Admin costs are covered externally. Thus, you can be sure that every dollar, every penny you donate, is being put to good use.

AKF’s sister organization, FOCUS Humanitarian Assistance, is taking the lead in providing disaster relief support to this region. In fact, they have been working there since January when another water-related tragedy hit the area. A huge landslide in Attabad Hunza in northern Pakistan caused a dam to break, forcing entire villages to evacuate and relocate. According to a recent article in The Independent, FOCUS is the only non-military search and rescue team working in Pakistan.
We have personally seen their contribution as first-on-site aides to poverty stricken disaster regions.
https://www.justgive.org/basket?acton=donate&ein=52-1937154

[heavyD]

Originally posted by WhippWhapp
Would Pakistan come to our aid if we needed?

I guess that depends. Would they come to aid us in the event of a natural disaster on Canadian soil? Maybe, maybe not. Would they come to aid us in the event of a terrorist attack on Canadian soil done by the terrorist groups they harbour? In that case why bother?

[Seanith]

I wonder where all the aid from the Saudi's and the other Gulf States is???

[Godfuader]

So, my wife attended the United Nations General Assembly on Thursday, highlighted by Hillary Clinton, for Pakistan. Said that Hillary was insistent that the rest of the world step up to the plate. Leading by example, the US increased its pledge by $60MM to $150MM. Germany pledged €9MM (1/3 going to AKF, from my previous post), Saudi has pledged $110MM, even India chipped in $5MM. Basically these drives are way for all the countries to 'show' that they helped a country in need. She left shortly after Clinton because everyone just echoed the same speech after her.

[Freeskier]

Originally posted by gstone
Has Canada considered providing flood relief to Europe this summer?

Do they need it??


Originally posted by WhippWhapp
Would Pakistan come to our aid if we needed?

Could they??

I think we have an obligation as one of the richest countries in the world to provide aid to those countries who otherwise would suffer immense loss of innocent life in a disaster.

[Godfuader]

Canada to match Pakistan flood donations Funds come on top of $33m already committed to relief efforts

In a move welcomed by aid groups, the Canadian government has announced that it will match private donations to registered charities for relief efforts in Pakistan. The fund-matching initiative is valid for donations between Aug. 2 and Sept. 12, and comes in addition to the $33 million the federal government has already committed to relief efforts. “For every eligible donation by individual Canadians to Canadian registered charities and earmarked for efforts to assist Pakistan relief efforts, Canada will contribute an equivalent amount to the Pakistan Floods Relief Fund,” House leader John Baird told reporters Sunday. The floods have killed nearly 2,000 people and left six million Pakistanis homeless, according to the latest United Nations estimates.
http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/08/22/government-to-match-pakistan-flood-donations/

[turbotrip]

together.ca is what is being promoted on tv and radio

but I donated through idrf.ca since they have 0% administration fees for the flood donations; and since they have a calgary chapter they are willing to show exactly where the money has gone

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Freeskier
I think we have an obligation as one of the richest countries in the world to provide aid to those countries who otherwise would suffer immense loss of innocent life in a disaster.

First of all, we can't even solve problems of disaster in our own back yard (new orleans) how the hell do you expect to solve problems of a nation half way across the world we know nothing about and don't even speak the language?
Obviously the North American track record has proven that throwing money on something does not make it go away, it makes it worse.

By your logic we should only force the rich to pay for this flood, and the people that are middle to lower class shouldn't be forced to pay for something they cannot afford.

Take another look at the unemployment rate in NA and the debt in NA and tell me how rich the nation is.

I bet most of the people in Pakistan have less debt than the majority of people coming out of university here in Calgary.

Also by your logic of rich should be forced to help poor, can you PM me how much you make per year so that if I lose my job I can come to your house with a gun and demand your wealth because you are obligated to help the less wealthy.

[Kennyredline]

Originally posted by Amysicle
I'm just a bit confused by the poll. Yes, we owe it to them!

What exactly do we "owe" to them?

If it's merely helping out other countries in need after a natural disaster, how much do we (as Canadians) give and where do we draw the line?
A better question would be should we give money to a country that can't look after itself WITHOUT a natural disaster happening? I believe Pakistan floods almost every year doesn't it?