two questions

[ramminghard]

1. What are the laws on assault? WHen is it considered self defense or not. I always thought that if someone touched you first then they instigated and they are the ones to get charged. Would just like some clarification.

2. If i see someone on my property what is the law there. Not just like walking on my grass but more like breaking into my house and inside the house. What does the law say i am able to do to protect myself. if anything besides calling 911.


These are hypothetical questions that were brought up in an argument that i would like clarification on.

[thich]

1. the laws on assault are weird at times... even if they instigated it, you can get dinged for overkill too

2. if anyone is on your property without ur permission it is always trespassing.
if they are doing something illegal while at it (ie. B&E)... then you have ever right to protect yourself.. again, watch the overkill.
You can protect yourself if they attack you - but you have to PROVE there was some form of aggression as well. I'm sure you are also allowed to protect your property - so knocking them out is prolly allowed? lol.

it's always recommended to call the cops anyways in both situations anyways because at least it mitigates any liability that you may incur if you take actions into your own hands.

[Weapon_R]

I'll help you cut through the crap:


1) Self Defence against unprovoked assault
"Everyone who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in reprelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself."

- this means that you can't defend yourself against an attacker and the curb stomp him after. You can only fight back to repel an attack, and nothing more, or you will be charged.

2) Defence of Personal Property
"Everyone who is in peaceful possession of personal property, and every one lawfully assisting him is justified

a) in preventing a trespasser from taking it, or
b) in taking it from a trespasser who has taken it

if he does not strike or cause bodily harm to the trespasser."

- you can prevent a trespasser from coming onto your property but you cannot attack him/her

3) Defence with claim of right
"Everyone who is in peaceful possession of personal property under a claim of right, and everyone acting under his authority, is protected from criminal responsibility for defending that possession, even against a person entitled by law to possession of it, if he uses no more force than is necessary."

-You can defend your property, if it is indeed yours, if you see fit by using no more force than necessary. With that said, you cannot shoot a burgler, or stab him, even if he is in your home. You can only use enough "force as necessary"

4) Defence without claim of right
"Everyone who is in peaceful possession of personal property, but does not possess claim of right or does not act under the authority of a person who claims it as of right, is not justified or protected from criminal responsibility for defending that possession, against a person entitled by law to possession of it.

- You cannot defend any property that is not legally yours, even if you see someone taking it, unless they possess no possession of that property.

[nismodrifter]

the laws are bullshit man

who defines the amount of "force that is necessary" in a case where someone is inside your house and is ready to harm you and/or your family???

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by nismodrifter
the laws are bullshit man

who defines the amount of "force that is necessary" in a case where someone is inside your house and is ready to harm you and/or your family???

The Police. And it's not hard to interpret "reasonable" force. If someone is armed with the intent to kill, you can do whatever is needed to subdue that person, even if it is justifiable homicide. However, if a burgler is in your house, you cannot kill him and expect to be free of criminal responsibility - Although a nice ass kicking would probably be overlooked :devil:

[3G]

that's fucked right up. Don't the cops tell you if something trys to steal from you, give them whatever they want. In other places, they tell you not to give them what they want, but to fight back!

[FiveFreshFish]

The laws protect the criminal too much. :thumbsdow

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by FiveFreshFish
The laws protect the criminal too much. :thumbsdow

:werd:

I remember a case in class where someone was breaking into houses through the sky lights (windows in the roof), came up to one house and fell through the window and broke some bones and sued for damages and won.

I can't remember it completely but I think the house owner knew there was something wrong with the window and knew about the robberies in the neighbourhood. IMO that should be fair game though.

[GTS Jeff]

i think the laws are fair enough. they allow u to protect yourself while also preventing u from going apeshit.

like seriously, if some dude broke into your house looking for a few bucks, didnt want to hurt anyone or anything...would u be justified in pumping an entire clip into him?

[hjr]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
i think the laws are fair enough. they allow u to protect yourself while also preventing u from going apeshit.

like seriously, if some dude broke into your house looking for a few bucks, didnt want to hurt anyone or anything...would u be justified in pumping an entire clip into him? nope, but a bat to da head would be i think, or one of many other contingency plans i have... (most dont involve killing da mofo)

[itsalebaron]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
i think the laws are fair enough. they allow u to protect yourself while also preventing u from going apeshit.

like seriously, if some dude broke into your house looking for a few bucks, didnt want to hurt anyone or anything...would u be justified in pumping an entire clip into him?

And how are you going to know for sure they are just after a few bucks and not out to hurt anyone?, I am sure it would be a little different if it actually did happen to you... You are just going to do nothing, and let the Canadian legal system give them a slap on the wrist? I agree that you are not going to kill the fucker lol BUT I think the minute you break the law you give up your rights not to have your ass whipped lol .. maybe that way people wouldn't break in to steal a few bucks.

Its liek that thread a few weeks back about some dude keying a car... somone replied .. "just go through him to get some cash, do you really want to ruin this guys life with a criminal record, he could have a family and lose his job" WELL maybe he shouldnt be out keying cars then LOL ..

Canada give more rights to criminals then to the good people .. its stupid... and untiul you actually DO something about it, nothing is going to change

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by itsalebaron


And how are you going to know for sure they are just after a few bucks and not out to hurt anyone?, I am sure it would be a little different if it actually did happen to you... You are just going to do nothing, and let the Canadian legal system give them a slap on the wrist? I agree that you are not going to kill the fucker lol BUT I think the minute you break the law you give up your rights not to have your ass whipped lol .. maybe that way people wouldn't break in to steal a few bucks.

Its liek that thread a few weeks back about some dude keying a car... somone replied .. "just go through him to get some cash, do you really want to ruin this guys life with a criminal record, he could have a family and lose his job" WELL maybe he shouldnt be out keying cars then LOL ..

Canada give more rights to criminals then to the good people .. its stupid... and untiul you actually DO something about it, nothing is going to change i agree with most of what u say, however, u should keep in mind that we do live in a civilized society where there are institutions in place to deal with the criminals. yea of course u have the right to defend yourself and your home from an intruder by whatever necessary means, but u have no right to deal out justice, cuz thats what the cops/legal system is for.

if u dont like the canadian system, then either: a. change the way it works thru peaceful means (ie. get into politics and propose a new law, if enough ppl agree with u, then problem solved) - or - go live in iraq, where ppl do whatever the shit they want.

[itsalebaron]

LOL I agree you shouldn't be able to pump them full of lead.... but if someone breaks into your house you should have the right to knock them out to protect your family... after all they should not have been there in the first place .. and there is no way of knowing WHY they are there. Though I am sure most authorities would probably agree with what you did it is just crazy to hear the stories of a criminal turning around and sueing for soemthing stupid when THEY put themselves in that situation by breaking the law in the first place.

I dont think I could kill anyone .. unless I had NO choice


My point .... I am sick of people feeling sorry for the poor criminal...