IT/Compuer programming field need info

[downtime]

thinking about getting into this field but wanted to know what programs are good to have when looking for work.What are employers looking for and what are the future programs to know.(i dont want to learn something that will be exstinct in a few years)What are the programs to learn in school ,but before going the career routwe can anyone recommend programs to learn on my own to see if i like it?I have spoken to a few people who were in school and dropped out and just said they teach you anything to take your money.I definately want to get employed when i am done(goverment or mid size firm).Any help anyone can give would be great.I dont have much computer background other than a little filemaker pro exsperience.( i hear alot about A+,is this one to know?)

[UndrgroundRider]

Spelling is a must.

The IT industry is very broad. If you want a programming job then a comp sci degree would be best. For a networking job you're better off going the cisco route, possibly through SAIT. For server work you'll want to jump into a desktop support position for 2-5 years and take MCSE courses when available. Lots of tech support companies will pay for these for you and let you take time off to do the course, which is a MAJOR bonus. Entry level desktop support positions require high school, ability to read, and patience enough to be verbally ass raped by customers on a daily basis.

If you're really intent on a lifelong career in IT, spend the extra money now to get some management courses or even a diploma/degree under your belt (in addition to your IT diploma/degree/certs). At a lot of the bigger companies people without a managerial background are at a huge disadvantage for advancement, especially at the higher levels.

[Critical]

With programming you can go in MANY different directions.

A computer science degree opens doors for many different routes, networking, information security, assembly, software engineering ect... Taking this degree is not all about programming, as most people would think, it is about methodologies, practices, principles in becoming one.

Taking a SAIT approach to programming is more of a hands on approach where they teach you the industry specific languages that are used in todays environments.

[mushi_mushi]

I disagree with some things that have been said, but its just a matter of personal opinion based on my own experiences. Firstly I would try and figure out if this is something you really want to pursue. Coming out of high school I enrolled in computer science at the uofc based on the fact that that computers have always interested me. I had never done any programming until that point and thought that this program to be a good fit. Needless to say I wasnt mature enough to handle the workload at that point and alot of the courses required to complete the degree had very little practical application in the real world. Needless to say my enrollment at the uofc did not last long. There are alot of people who have had negative experiences at the uofc and more specifically in comp sci, however that should not stop you from enrolling if you think it is a good fit for you.

Later I decided to register at mount royal in their computer information systems and business program. I liked this program alot more, I think the courses are more practice and you have the benefit of smaller class sizes. SAIT from what I hear is also very hands on.

I think if your a person who is driven and committed you will be successful regardless of the program you choose. I think pretty much all post secondary schools have something like "student for a day" where you can go see what its like, attend classes, talk to students and get a general feel of what its like.

In regards to the A+ certification, it might be useful to have if your applying for tech-support roles and have no experience but otherwise its pretty useless. The last time I checked you need to pass 3 tests to get the A+. It basically covers knowledge of computer hardware/windows.

You can teach yourself web/software development, the problem is are you discipline enough, and how do you know what to teach yourself. Selling your skills on a resume would also be problematic, at least with a degree/certificate the hiring manager knows you have a basic understanding of things. Without an education those things are alot harder to demonstrate.

Make sure you know what to expect from comp sci or any other program. My expectations of "computer science" weren't in line with reality. Some of these programs may not be in line with your expectations, try to get more info on your program of interests and talk to people who've been through them and see what their impressions are. Im sure we've had tons of discussions like this on beyond. (UofC vs *, Comp Sci vs *, etc) Search the name of the program and im sure you'll be able to find some useful info.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi
Coming out of high school I enrolled in computer science at the uofc based on the fact that that computers have always interested me. I had never done any programming until that point and thought that this program to be a good fit.



Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. - Edsger Dijkstra


You don't go into computer science to do desktop support or even web design...

[Critical]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi
Needless to say I wasnt mature enough to handle the workload at that point and alot of the courses required to complete the degree had very little practical application in the real world.
Which courses exactly?

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by Critical

Which courses exactly?

I'm referring to most of the math courses. Even some of the computer science courses were very "low level" concepts, which are important in order to grasp some of the concepts behind computing theory.

Math 221 (linear algebra)
Math 251 (calculus)
Math 271 (math proofs)
Phil 279 (logic, dont need to know logic beyond how an or/and xor etc work)
cpsc 331 (data structures if im not mistaken)
cpsc 265 ( sparc assembly language)
Im sure there are other courses as well Im just going off my memory of roughly 1.5 years of comp sci.

Many of these courses dont have any real relevance in actual software/web development) They may be useful/important in other domains. Im basically a new grad so you may very well have more experience and share a different of opinion on the subject.

Im not knocking a university education. I went through it part ways and know that it requires alot hard work and dedication to finish. I give props to those who completed the program. I think many people have a misconception of what comp sci is, and get a rude awakening after the first year. I just want to advise the OP to make his/her decision with caution. I think its important to go out there and do your own due diligence to figure out what matches your needs.

[Hakkola]

Only have to take 4 math courses though

with at least 0.5 full course equivalents from Statistics 211 or Mathematics 321 (MATH 321 has MATH 253 as a prerequisite)

- and at least 0.5 full course equivalents from MATH251; MATH249; MATH281

and at least 0.5 full course equivalents from Math 211 or Math 213

- and at least 0.5 full course equivalents from MATH271; MATH273

Just took that from Degree Navigator.

I think statistics 211 shouldn't be too bad.

I have logic 279 this semester.

[mushi_mushi]

What are you taking hakkola?

In general I would rate the quality of education I received at the uofc to be poor. I will say that regardless of the quality of instruction, I believe those who look for an excuse to fail will often find it and those who have a desire to pass will persevere no matter what.

Alot of the first year classes I had had a failure rate of 50%, now some of these classes were difficult, others the instruction was poor. Im not being racist or judgmental when I say this but some of the profs/ta's didnt speak english well, or lacked teaching experience. Some other profs knew they had tenure and really didnt give a crap when it came to teaching.

The class sizes were huge, you dont get the same attention as you do in a smaller class, like would me the case at mru/sait.

[Recca168]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi


I'm referring to most of the math courses. Even some of the computer science courses were very "low level" concepts, which are important in order to grasp some of the concepts behind computing theory.

Math 221 (linear algebra)
Math 251 (calculus)
Math 271 (math proofs)
Phil 279 (logic, dont need to know logic beyond how an or/and xor etc work)
cpsc 331 (data structures if im not mistaken)
cpsc 265 ( sparc assembly language)
Im sure there are other courses as well Im just going off my memory of roughly 1.5 years of comp sci.

Many of these courses dont have any real relevance in actual software/web development) They may be useful/important in other domains. Im basically a new grad so you may very well have more experience and share a different of opinion on the subject.

Im not knocking a university education. I went through it part ways and know that it requires alot hard work and dedication to finish. I give props to those who completed the program. I think many people have a misconception of what comp sci is, and get a rude awakening after the first year. I just want to advise the OP to make his/her decision with caution. I think its important to go out there and do your own due diligence to figure out what matches your needs.

I've been in the field software engineering for a while now and looking back those courses actually form a good foundation for any one pursuing the career. Math 221/251 are prereqs for 271. Phil279 ingrains a very sequential way of thinking into your brain. Math 271 does that to some extent as well but seems more like a weeder class.

CPSC331 from what I remember should be the data stucuture/algorithm class. It teaches how to measure efficency in algorithms and is an introduction into compuational theory. CPSC265 is assembly and about as low level as it gets. Also a huge pain in the ass. In most cases in the real world these are very low level and hidden but without a good understanding of these concepts the result can be real terrible code and products.

I agree that you need good idea you what you want to do before pursuing any post secondary degree. For com sci at the U of C i'd suggest looking at the different concentrations that are offered and see if any of them fit into your career you're looking for. If not then you are probably looking at the wrong program.

Hakkola, just a warning you may want to double check if math321 is really a requirement. It was probability theory or something like that. Was a brutal class (for me at least). It was listed in the suggested courses but wasn't a requirment except for one or two optional 4th year classes.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi
What are you taking hakkola?

Computer Science, first year, but it's only a ~2 year program because I already have a degree.


Originally posted by Recca168

Hakkola, just a warning you may want to double check if math321 is really a requirement. .


It isn't really, you have to take either 211 or 321, I'll probably take 211.

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by Hakkola

Computer Science, first year, but it's only a ~2 year program because I already have a degree.


It isn't really, you have to take either 211 or 321, I'll probably take 211.

Why are you doing comp sci, I thought you wanted to do law school?

I might be wrong but I think math 211 is equivalent to math 221 (linear algebra) I think many of the courses in the computer science program are very theoretical in nature. I just think understanding of such things adds little benefit as far as the programing side of things goes. If I had to do it all over again I would have taken something else. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Each one of us is going to have something different to say based on our own experiences.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi


Why are you doing comp sci, I thought you wanted to do law school?


I still do, but I also have an interest in computers, and a computer science degree can open a lot of doors. Who knows, maybe I'll have 3 degrees before I'm done with school. :rofl:

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by Hakkola


I still do, but I also have an interest in computers, and a computer science degree can open a lot of doors. Who knows, maybe I'll have 3 degrees before I'm done with school. :rofl:

Wow, going for the hat trick, what do you get after your done three degrees? I finished 1.5 years, do I get a set of steak knives? Good for you man, that program is not easy. What do you want to do once your done?

[PaleRider]

Looking back, where you end up in IT depend on the first couple of jobs you get after school. A lot of comp sci grad I know end up on the infrastructure side such as sys admin/storage/VM or security. After a few years, none of them will take a pay cut (myself included) to be a newbie dev anymore...

[Critical]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi
Math 221 (linear algebra) - Used in graphics
Math 251 (calculus) - Every UofC program requires this and for a good reason
Math 271 (math proofs) - Problem solving
Phil 279 (logic) - Problem solving
cpsc 331 (data structures if im not mistaken) - A very basic course about different data structures, whats the problem?
cpsc 265 ( sparc assembly language) - Very helpful in learning micro controller programming ect...


Seems like you just dislike university in general. You complain about the profs, TA's and class sizes when you don't understand how these courses help you later in your degree.

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by Critical


Seems like you just dislike university in general. You complain about the profs, TA's and class sizes when you don't understand how these courses help you later in your degree.

Im not questioning if these courses help you in higher level courses. Im questioning their importance in real world applications. Im simply stating that if you want to do system administration, networking or development that there might be better ways to pursue that besides a university education. There is no question about it, I didnt like the program I was in, nor did I like the courses.

I feel that a applied approach gives you alot of the knowledge that you will deal with in the real world. This knowledge is hands on and less theoretical. I am not alone in my dislike of comp sci. (or the uofc in general) You can search beyond and see that alot of the posts regarding computer science have a very negative connotation. Im not advising the op to "dump" the university option, all im try to do is help the op in making an informed decision.

Like ive said before I think you can be successful regardless of educational background. Alot of what it boils down is "do you have the desire to learn", how quickly can you learn new concepts, how good are you at dealing with people etc. A degree is a small part of the big picture.

[Critical]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi
Im questioning their importance in real world applications.

My response was their importance in real world applications.

[Awd-Tsi]

I'm going into I.T at sait this year, looks tight. Do a bit of research and see if you like it.

[boosted_Z]

SAIT (previously) offered 2 year diplomas that transfer directly into 3rd year of ComSci. This might be a good way to get all that wonderful "hands-on" magic from SAIT :rolleyes: and spend some time on the academic side too.

Intern during your summers. Use that time to find what work environments you like, build contacts and fill resume space. Oh and make good money.

Also try to not be the typical ComSci grad. Being personable and well-spoken will go a long way during interviews.

[locust]

I've been in the field for a while now and I find that the majority of the introductory courses at the u of c teach you the foundation of software development. These courses can be quite dry and boring though. There are many different positions and career pathways you can pursue from a comp sci degree.


IT is extremely broad. It really all depends on what you want to do.

If you want to be hands on with networking I would recommend looking into networking certifications like CCNP/CCIE.

If you want to work as a help desk analyst you may want to look into a+ certifications.

There are many different fields that you may want to look into as well such as computer engineering, software engineering, and security.