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BerserkerCatSplat
09-04-2010, 11:32 AM
So, here's the story.

Flow-matched and rebuilt a set of Bosch 3 injectors to replace the crap factory Siemens Deka injectors in the Jeep. Thursday afternoon I did the swap, cleaned out the throttle body since you have to remove it to get the fuel rails off so I figured I might as well. Forgot that I needed a new throttle body gasket, but CanTire had to order it in for Friday morning. Ordered the gasket, buttoned everything back up except the TB and covered the holes on the intake manifold.

Friday afternoon I get off work, grab the gasket, and reinstall the throttle body/cables/electronics. Reconnected the battery.

Went to start it up, ran rough for about 2.5 seconds (~200RPM, figured that was due to air in the fuel rails as I bled the system before pulling them), and then made a weird (but not overly loud) klankety-klunk noise and died. Hit the starter again, now it won't even turn the engine over. Great.

Pulled the steering skid and put a big breaker bar on the crank, and I can't even get it to move a millimeter in either direction with the spark plugs pulled for zero compression and the accessory belt removed.

So I'm kinda baffled as to what the hell happened. If it dropped a valve or something, I can't see how it would lock the reciprocating assembly so hard that a good 200ft-lb on a breaker bar couldn't turn it. Pulled a valve cover and didn't see any missing valves, ran out of light/motivation before I could pull the other. My only surviving theory is that the timing chain broke and bound up in the housing something fierce. Going to pull the front of the engine apart today and see what I can find.


Damnit.

RickDaTuner
09-04-2010, 11:37 AM
You think the new injectors caused the engine to hydro lock? the 200rpm idle off the bat leads to think so...

reading again though the fact that you pulled the plugs and tried again doesn't add up to that conclusion

BerserkerCatSplat
09-04-2010, 11:51 AM
Yeah, my first thought was that it hydro'd, I was really hoping that was all it was, haha. The Bosch injector swap is a pretty common one, so I'm lost as to why it could have been the source of the problem. The engine has a lot of miles on it, so the rough running could have been proverbial straw on the old timing chain's back. Won't know for sure until I get it pulled apart.

Engine is a Dodge 5.2L (318), pushrod V8, non-interference. I should also note that up to this point I had absolutely no signs of engine trouble. She had a lot of miles but no knocking or any other early-warning signs.

Scuderia
09-04-2010, 12:53 PM
Were the injectors new? Are you sure you installed everything properly? My coworker at my old shop did the spider injectors on an old chevy once, and after he put the new ones in, did the same thing, idled rough and siezed. Turns out the old injectors were leaking and an enormous amount of pressure was let off when he cranked it after the install.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-04-2010, 01:23 PM
Injectors were not new but were rebuilt (filters/rings/caps) and tested on my flow bench at 49psi to make sure they didn't leak and had even flow rates. Yes, everything was installed properly, I'm rather paranoid about that kind of thing and this was a rather straightforward procedure.

What do you mean by "the old injectors were leaking and an enormous amount of pressure was let off when he cranked it after the install."? I'm trying to think of how leaking old injectors would cause a pressure buildup - when the new injectors were put in there was zero fuel pressure anyway as the fuel pump relay was pulled before I bled the fuel system, and didn't get pressure until I tried starting it yesterday.

Alak
09-04-2010, 01:36 PM
Dumb question, but I assume you tried to turn the engine both ways with the spark plugs out.

Scuderia is probably talking about the injector sticking open.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-04-2010, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Alak
Dumb question, but I assume you tried to turn the engine both ways with the spark plugs out.

Scuderia is probably talking about the injector sticking open.

Yeah, turning the crank both ways with the plugs out was the first thing I tried. It won't move whatsoever.

A stuck-open injector might cause hydrolock, but you'd think you'd be able to turn the crank with the plugs out if that was the case.

AndyL
09-04-2010, 02:30 PM
Low oil pressure - running at 200rpm ain't going to be moving that oil pump very quick?

Good excuse to swap in the SRT8 drivetrain? :angel:

revelations
09-04-2010, 02:40 PM
Youre not still in gear are you :rofl:



(sorry dumb question, but sometimes I've overlooked the obvious)

BerserkerCatSplat
09-04-2010, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by AndyL
Low oil pressure - running at 200rpm ain't going to be moving that oil pump very quick?

Good excuse to swap in the SRT8 drivetrain? :angel:

Kinda doubt it, the engine has to go though the 200RPM band every time it starts and it only "ran" for a very short space of time.

Sadly, there's absolutely no way to fit any Hemi in this thing without spending a hojillion dollars. :(



Originally posted by revelations
Youre not still in gear are you :rofl:



(sorry dumb question, but sometimes I've overlooked the obvious)

Hey, at this point I'll take any suggestions, haha. No, it's an auto trans and it was (and is) in Park. I tried starting in Neutral last night but no change, and it rolls back and forth in Neutral no problem so it doesn't seem like something's jammed up in the trans either.

I suppose there's a remote possibility that something's gone wrong in the transmission, but you'd think there'd be at least a little play in the assembly.

Alak
09-04-2010, 08:12 PM
Hmmm. Time for a new engine? At least the 318 is common. Maybe do some work to it while your in there lol.

D'z Nutz
09-04-2010, 08:16 PM
Maybe the... spark plugs aren't firing?
OSBmo8F7N-E

silviak91
09-04-2010, 08:21 PM
This happened to me to best of luck with new engine.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-04-2010, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Alak
Hmmm. Time for a new engine? At least the 318 is common. Maybe do some work to it while your in there lol.

Yeah, 318s are a dime a dozen, but only the newer ones have the Magnum heads, etc. If I do rebuild this one I'll see what I can do to give it a bit of extra kick.



Originally posted by D'z Nutz
Maybe the... spark plugs aren't firing?
OSBmo8F7N-E

I've followed that engine diagnosis procedure for years. Where did I go wrong? :rofl:

Sugarphreak
09-04-2010, 08:52 PM
...

BerserkerCatSplat
09-04-2010, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I guess that is your one saving grace, Dodge has a lot of aftermarket support and after you tear into it and find the problem it shouldn't cost you too much to get it fixed up and running again.

Still sucks though, I can't think of what would cause it to seize up like that.

Have you disconnected the belts just in case it is a seized accessory that is prevent it from moving?

Yeah, removed the belt when I pulled the spark plugs, nada.

Man, parts costs in Canada are terrible. Set of valve cover gaskets in the States? $15.99. Same thing in Canada? $70.50. I mean, that's more than a pair of HEAD GASKETS in the States. Highway robbery, I'm tellin' ya.

G-ZUS
09-04-2010, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Yeah, removed the belt when I pulled the spark plugs, nada.

Man, parts costs in Canada are terrible. Set of valve cover gaskets in the States? $15.99. Same thing in Canada? $70.50. I mean, that's more than a pair of HEAD GASKETS in the States. Highway robbery, I'm tellin' ya.

:werd: i get my parts from the states now, even with shipping its way cheaper

BerserkerCatSplat
09-04-2010, 09:57 PM
Yeah, I can get a master rebuild kit with pistons & cam for ~$750 I can't imagine what that would cost locally.


Either way, I can probably kiss my lift budget goodbye. :banghead:

FraserB
09-04-2010, 11:29 PM
If you really want to swap a new motor in, I'll give you a hand. If you have an engine hoist it can be done in a few afternoons. My cost is that you help me find and install a trailer hitch on mine, plus the obligatory beer;)

AndyL
09-05-2010, 08:10 AM
Ditto - but definitely go for an upgrade while you're in there... 318s are a dime a dozen -but so are 360s :)

Then again, there's something to be said for 4.0/4.2s - and you can find those cheap like borscht in any number of wrecked gc/xj's...

BerserkerCatSplat
09-05-2010, 01:32 PM
Thanks for the offers, guys. Hopefully things work out and I don't have to do a full swap, but I'm not holding my breath. I'll have access to a hoist at my dad's place in Airdrie but it'll be a while before that happens as I'll need to source a motor, get the vehicle trailered to the shop, etc. I'll definitely let you know if I need a hand, though!

As far as swapping in a different engine goes, the 4.0 is nice but it's less powerful than the 5.2 and would require a wiring harness/ECU/transmission swap. 5.9 would be nice, but finding the correct ECU/harness/Jeep-specific transmission would be a bear. No, I suspect if I do seek extra power a lightly breathed-on 5.2 (1.7-ratio lifters, cam) will do me fine.

AndyL
09-05-2010, 01:36 PM
Not necessarily - Seem to recall seeing the jeep specific Megasquirt ECUs recently... While that's a bit of fun in itself - a worthwhile upgrade :)

BerserkerCatSplat
09-05-2010, 06:23 PM
Well, stripped it down to the timing chain today and while it's old and a bit sloppy it's definitely not the problem. Looks like it has to be something internal. There's enough slop in the chain that I can turn the camshaft by hand (with some difficulty) so it's definitely something attached to the crank that's causing the problem. Looks like it's time to start seriously hunting for a new motor. :(

BerserkerCatSplat
09-06-2010, 01:23 PM
In other news, parts prices in Canada are FUCKING SHIT. Master rebuild kit with pistons/cam/roller lifters/oil pump etc from the States: $700. Master rebuilt kit from local parts place WITHOUT cam or lifters: $1,923. Say, that doesn't have an oil pump either - pony up another $138! Want the cam/lifters? Ooh, that'll be another $686 for a grand total of $2747. I can have a complete remanufactured long block complete with warranty shipped to my door for HALF that price. And some places wonder why we order everything out of the States.

Cos
09-06-2010, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
In other news, parts prices in Canada are FUCKING SHIT. Master rebuild kit with pistons/cam/roller lifters/oil pump etc from the States: $700. Master rebuilt kit from local parts place WITHOUT cam or lifters: $1,923. Say, that doesn't have an oil pump either - pony up another $138! Want the cam/lifters? Ooh, that'll be another $686 for a grand total of $2747. I can have a complete remanufactured long block complete with warranty shipped to my door for HALF that price. And some places wonder why we order everything out of the States.

:eek: I knew it was bad.... but....

sr20s14zenki
09-06-2010, 08:03 PM
Whos that thru, Moores? Are they even still in business? :D

BerserkerCatSplat
09-06-2010, 08:09 PM
Partsource, actually. Maybe it's gargantuan markup, who knows.

.norco.
09-08-2010, 02:43 AM
damn if i was in calgary right now we could check the inside of each cylinder with my videoscope. :(

gretz
09-08-2010, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
In other news, parts prices in Canada are FUCKING SHIT. Master rebuild kit with pistons/cam/roller lifters/oil pump etc from the States: $700. Master rebuilt kit from local parts place WITHOUT cam or lifters: $1,923. Say, that doesn't have an oil pump either - pony up another $138! Want the cam/lifters? Ooh, that'll be another $686 for a grand total of $2747. I can have a complete remanufactured long block complete with warranty shipped to my door for HALF that price. And some places wonder why we order everything out of the States.

I don't want to ask what your budget is, but I have a buddy that has a 360 magnum crate motor, brand new block, fresh build, 0km, .020 over - high comp. pistons, eagle rods, billet crank, R/T 202heads, "750 holley"(no wiring worries)... the list goes on and everything is brand new...

If this is something that might tickle your fancy, shoot me a pm... I don't want to say what I can get it to your door for, but it will likely be in the ballpark of the rebuild kit.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-08-2010, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by .norco.
damn if i was in calgary right now we could check the inside of each cylinder with my videoscope. :(

No worries, I'll find out what went wrong by continually dismantling things until I figure it out, haha.



Originally posted by gretz


I don't want to ask what your budget is, but I have a buddy that has a 360 magnum crate motor, brand new block, fresh build, 0km, .020 over - high comp. pistons, eagle rods, billet crank, R/T 202heads, "750 holley"(no wiring worries)... the list goes on and everything is brand new...

If this is something that might tickle your fancy, shoot me a pm... I don't want to say what I can get it to your door for, but it will likely be in the ballpark of the rebuild kit.

Sounds badass, but if you're talking about the $2700 kit price then she's way out of my price territory. Sounds like a solid motor but I'd be afraid a high-power unit would start killing my equally-high-mileage transmission. :nut:


At any rate, got both valve covers pulled (more of a pain in the ass than I was expecting) and all valves seem to be present and accounted for, barring the possibility of one having broken in half (unlikely, I know). Also pulled the oil pan most of the way but have to remove the exhaust to get it all the way out. Can see the front half of the crank, everything seems in order there as well. Currently soaking the exhaust bolts in penetrant so I can get the pan all the way off and will likely pull the intake/exhaust manifolds and heads soon. Got some time to do it as I won't have access to an engine hoist for a coupe of weeks yet.

spikerS
09-08-2010, 09:33 PM
oh dude, that sucks to hear. My first thought was hydrolock too, then went to timing chain and stuck valve. so really the last things it could be is crank bearing or cylinder wall, unless of course you tossed a piston rod and never knew it, and it finally lodged itself in the right position to lock things up.

Let me know if I can help in some way man, I owe you at least that much.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-10-2010, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by spikers
oh dude, that sucks to hear. My first thought was hydrolock too, then went to timing chain and stuck valve. so really the last things it could be is crank bearing or cylinder wall, unless of course you tossed a piston rod and never knew it, and it finally lodged itself in the right position to lock things up.

Let me know if I can help in some way man, I owe you at least that much.

Yeah, it's annoying how there's so many ways to wreck a motor. Appreciate the help offer, but no worries, I'm waiting for that BBQ event you mentioned. :D

Not much to report lately, retested the crank and determined I can leg-press the breaker bar on the crank without turning it. I'm starting to wonder if maybe a piston ring failed and jammed itself up in a cylinder.

spikerS
09-10-2010, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Yeah, it's annoying how there's so many ways to wreck a motor. Appreciate the help offer, but no worries, I'm waiting for that BBQ event you mentioned. :D

Not much to report lately, retested the crank and determined I can leg-press the breaker bar on the crank without turning it. I'm starting to wonder if maybe a piston ring failed and jammed itself up in a cylinder.

yes, the BBQ event is coming. we are slowly getting the house in order, and once we are close to that, we will get you all over the the BBQ. won't happen this weekend like we had hoped, but maybe next.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-13-2010, 08:46 AM
Got the oil pan all the way off yesterday (after a bit of a faff with the exhaust and transmission mount) and from what I could see with a flashlight there's nothing wrong with the bottom end. All rods intact, all pistons intact, absolutely no debris in the oil pan and no debris on the oil pickup screen. I filtered all the oil when I drained it and there were no metal shavings to indicate a bearing disintegrated.

I'm baffled. I'm starting to wonder if perhaps there's nothing wrong with the motor and instead something's lunched itself on the input side of the transmission. Definitely running out of plausible ideas!

Cos
09-13-2010, 08:59 AM
Yeah I would say your next bet is to check the transmission. Too bad it is so damned hard to separate them.

AndyL
09-13-2010, 09:28 AM
Yeah but you don't need to fully separate them - you could just undo the torque converter - flywheel bolts; should allow the flywheel to spin free if the transmission is siezed up.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-13-2010, 10:04 AM
I considered that, but the issue is that I can't rotate the flywheel to access all the bolts on the torque converter. :banghead: Looks like I'll have to pull the engine + trans together just to figure out what's up.

Z_Fan
09-13-2010, 12:52 PM
This sucks.

I lol'd about the torque convertor bolts.

In my car, you can only access ONE bolt at any given time, through a very small opening so the crank must be rotated very accurately to access each one.

I'd imagine yours is similar and that's funny.

I wonder if you have enough room in your engine bay to just remove the bellhousing bolts, and pull the engine forward letting the convertor slip off the transmission.

I think it's not going to matter since you have so much work to figure out the problem anyhow, removing the transmission with the engine will be no biggy.

AndyL
09-13-2010, 01:02 PM
Yeah... Forgot about that whole siezed part :facepalm:

BerserkerCatSplat
09-13-2010, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Z_Fan


I wonder if you have enough room in your engine bay to just remove the bellhousing bolts, and pull the engine forward letting the convertor slip off the transmission.

It may be possible, I do have quite a bit of clearance between the front of the block and the rad since I pulled all the accessories out. Probably got 6-7 inches, maybe a bit more. That might be worth a try when I get access to the engine hoist next week, but I may end up pulling the whole shebang anyway.

Z_Fan
09-14-2010, 10:55 AM
Well...

You may find that by moving the engine forward just slightly, and creating a gap between the bellhousing and the engine, you can then access the bolts holding the torque convertor on. :)

And if it pulls all the way out, and you can still pull the engine with it attached, bonus for you.

Rat Fink
09-14-2010, 11:39 AM
You can pull the engine with the torque converter attached and leave the transmission in its place as long as you have enough forward movement to get the engine out with the converter attached. Just do it carefully and replace the converter seal in the transmission before you put the converter back in.

Can you pull the oil pan on that jeep with the engine in its place? Might be worth it to see if there is bottom end damage.

Could something have fallen into the intake and jammed itself into the head/piston during the work? Are there any places in Calgary that would have a borescope you can rent?

Also, I saw a Magnum 318, new in crate on kijiji for calgary. He's asking 1650 bucks for it.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-14-2010, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Z_Fan
Well...

You may find that by moving the engine forward just slightly, and creating a gap between the bellhousing and the engine, you can then access the bolts holding the torque convertor on. :)

And if it pulls all the way out, and you can still pull the engine with it attached, bonus for you.

Yeah, hopefully that works out. It's definitely worth a shot.



Originally posted by Rat Fink
You can pull the engine with the torque converter attached and leave the transmission in its place as long as you have enough forward movement to get the engine out with the converter attached. Just do it carefully and replace the converter seal in the transmission before you put the converter back in.



I figure if I get to that point, I may as well pull both the motor and trans as a unit and split them afterwards. If the engine needs rebuilding, I'll likely give the trans a once-over while I have it out anyway and it'll be far easier to do the band adjustments with the trans out of the vehicle.



Can you pull the oil pan on that jeep with the engine in its place? Might be worth it to see if there is bottom end damage.


Oil pan is already pulled, there doesn't look to be any damage from what I can see. I need a non-rainy day with decent light so I can go out and get a better look.



Could something have fallen into the intake and jammed itself into the head/piston during the work? Are there any places in Calgary that would have a borescope you can rent?

I can't imagine what would have fallen in as I always had the throttle body hole plugged when the TB was removed, but I guess it's possible. I'll have to see if anyone rents borescopes, or maybe I'll just pull the intake.



Also, I saw a Magnum 318, new in crate on kijiji for calgary. He's asking 1650 bucks for it. [/B]

Saw that too, but if I'm going to spend that kind of $ I'd be looking at a 5.9 and I suspect that engine has the smog cam rather than the hotter stock cam my engine already has.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-22-2010, 10:02 AM
So, on the weekend we moved the Jeep into my dad's shop so I could pull the engine/trans out and really tear things down.

Went to my place, loaded up the Jeep onto the hauler for the trip to the shop. Ironically, despite all the wheeling it's done, this was the first time it's needed to be winched, haha.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/0c6dacf2.jpg

In the garage, finally. Pulled the hood for engine access.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/7db5aff9.jpg

This is how far I'd stripped it down in my parking lot, but bad weather all week had kept me from going any further.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/b605186a.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/b7a8b6b2.jpg

Personally, I wanted to just do an engine swap, but I determined that the header's wouldn't fit. Oh, well! ;)
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/8c0f200e.jpg

Many linkages were unbolted and wires unplugged, and the engine is almost ready to be yanked.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/6d765854.jpg

Pulled the transfer case for ease of removal, now it's ready to be pulled.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/3bb229bc.jpg

Out, finally!
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/49d01028.jpg

Required.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/94063dbf.jpg

Got the motor on the engine stand, started removing all the bits and pieces. Everything looked normal, until....
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/62017f9f.jpg

....I pulled the passenger-side head. Gee, that piston looks pretty cracked. Wait, what is that?
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/567247de.jpg

GODDAMNIT WHY THE FUCK IS THERE A TORX BIT IN MY COMBUSTION CHAMBER. YOU SON OF A BITCH.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/37c59295.jpg


So, at this point it became suddenly apparent what had happened, but there's more to the story. Way back last year when I first bought the Jeep, the very first thing I ever did with it was clean the IAC valve on the back of the throttle body as the idle was a bit odd. The ISC is in a very awkward position with little clearance, so I was forced to use a removable screwdriver bit in a ratchet to get at the two Torx bolts holding it to the back of the TB. While I was reassembling it, I dropped the bit down the back of the engine. I searched for that fucking thing for HOURS. Magnets, flashlight, I couldn't find it for the life of me. Every time I went under the hood to work on something, I looked for that damned bit. eventually I was forced to assume it had fallen out of the engine bay while I was driving.

Flash forward to a few weeks ago. After lots of driving and many bumpy offroading trips, the Torx bit must have somehow migrated forward to the front passenger side injector pair and was in a position near the injector hole for that cylinder. Keep in mind that the ECU wiring, fuel rail, and a vacuum line cluster all run down that area. As soon as I pulled the rail with injectors attached, the bit must have been in the perfect position and jumped in the hole. Here's a picture showing in red where the Torx bolt I was working on was when I lost it, and in green the hole it went in over a year later.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/e4b5d747.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/603e7ca3.jpg

Also note that the hole has a raised lip around it to help protect against exactly this kind of thing. I afterward attempted to find a position it could have rested in on the intake manifold to drop in, and after a number of trials I was completely unable to make the bit fall in the hole. It barely fits in end-on. The chances of the series of events conspiring to have this happen was infinitesimally small... and yet there's a damn Torx bit in my piston. :rofl:

So, yeah, that's the story more or less. In a small stroke of luck the cylinder wall looks to actually be in quite good shape, so a rebore may not even be necessary. The head was not so lucky, as the bit took a small chunk out of a non-sealing surface; not critical, but I'll likely just grab a junkyard head for $40 and rebuild it along with the other one. The transmission also seems to have degraded badly in the months since I swapped transfer cases, as it gushed some pretty badly burnt ATF when I pulled the TC, indicating that it's blown an internal seal and something was badly overheating itself. The culprit may have been a clogged checkvalve by the trans cooler, which would have kept the ATF from circulating and cooling properly. Thus, I will be having the trans rebuilt and likely upgraded to 49RH spec.

Bonus image: The piston needed to be bashed out with a hammer to unseize thing so I can pull the rest of the internals on Sunday. Hulk smash!
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/CatSplat/Jeep/5039d0fe.jpg

Idratherbsidewayz
09-22-2010, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat

LOL, perfect storm eh? Fuck that sucks.

Now you get to rebuild!!

revelations
09-22-2010, 01:10 PM
OMG....thats pure Murhpys law right there... damn !!

gretz
09-22-2010, 02:17 PM
If your block took a hit, I came across this that may interest you

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-360-Magnum-W0QQAdIdZ217355031

BerserkerCatSplat
09-22-2010, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by gretz
If your block took a hit, I came across this that may interest you

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-360-Magnum-W0QQAdIdZ217355031

Block looks OK, but I'm definitely interested in that 360. Thanks for the heads-up!

Sugarphreak
09-22-2010, 02:52 PM
..

Mibz
09-22-2010, 03:28 PM
I'm sorry, I LOLed so hard when I saw the bit in there, glad you figured it out though. It's gonna feel like a million bucks once everything's back together again. Good luck man.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-22-2010, 05:34 PM
Nobody should feel bad about laughing at it, I know that shit's funny!

I got in touch with the guy on kijiji, going to take a look at the motor asap. Hopefully it checks out, a 5.9 swap is surprisingly straightforward in the OBD1 grands.

bourge73
09-22-2010, 05:41 PM
hmmmmmm I just picked up a cheap 91 XJ with a 4.0L 5 speed.....runs perfect.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-22-2010, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by bourge73
hmmmmmm I just picked up a cheap 91 XJ with a 4.0L 5 speed.....runs perfect.

I may have some tips for you regarding losing objects in your engine bay. PM for details.

AndyL
09-22-2010, 10:53 PM
Ouch...

Maybe you could buy Spikers writeoff and snag the engine :)

That's an andy sized fuckup - you sure I wasn't the one doing the work? That looks like my kinda SNAFU.

Mmm... Pretty hemi - Betcha we could make it fit. Let's git'r done before your dad notices it's missing.

projekz
09-24-2010, 10:51 AM
Is it up and running yet????:D

spikerS
09-24-2010, 07:47 PM
well, if you wanted, you could snag my engine and tranny. Engine is still strong, and the tranny is more than enough for your jeep.

Not sure what they are going to offer me for my truck, but if you want it, what every they offer me for the buy back, is what you can have it for.

they are coming on Wednesday to look at it.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-25-2010, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by spikers
well, if you wanted, you could snag my engine and tranny. Engine is still strong, and the tranny is more than enough for your jeep.

Not sure what they are going to offer me for my truck, but if you want it, what every they offer me for the buy back, is what you can have it for.

they are coming on Wednesday to look at it.

What motor/trans are in your truck? That might work out nicely, although you've likely got an RE trans in there and my truck only has enough brains to run an RH, I think.

spikerS
09-25-2010, 01:39 PM
It has a 318 in it, but not sure exactly what tranny it is. it is auto with overdrive.

I will see what I can find out.

spikerS
09-25-2010, 01:42 PM
yeah, I think it has the RE according to what info i can find, but I can't crawl under my truck yet to find out for sure.

spikerS
09-25-2010, 01:44 PM
actually, on second thought, it might be a RH, I had to adjust my cable on there for the shift points, and every vehicle that I have done that in the past has been hydro, not electric...

fuck it, my back still won't let me crawl under the truck, if you want to come over and take a peek, or if anyone is up in the NE that can take a look, please let me know.

*edit* and alternatively, you can take the ECU out of the truck as well to make it work. and then we can part the rest out to pay for it all lol

AndyL
09-25-2010, 07:31 PM
Damn I'm SMRT :D

Think that dodge might have an axle upgrade for ya too :)

BerserkerCatSplat
09-25-2010, 08:01 PM
Crap, I just remembered my starter is on the opposite side of the trans from the Dodges, so your trans won't clear my exhaust manifolds. :(

spikerS
09-25-2010, 08:51 PM
just use the starter I have on the truck...fuck man, just take the entire drivetrain, i don't care.

bourge73
09-26-2010, 08:07 AM
if Spikers doesnt work like I said you can buy my 91 4.0 5 speed and upgrade to a manual :dunno:

Z_Fan
09-26-2010, 09:27 AM
Welp, I had a good laugh. Especially because it was asked if you had maybe dropped something that might have got in the cylinder. Which seems so so so unlikely. AND since you probably didn't lose anything this time around, the answer was not likely, but possible. Hahah. Which is a good answer!!!

It's rather amazing it took that long to happen and crazy that it managed to find its way in to the cylinder in the first place.

I think the next time I drop a small screw, nut, or what-have-you, I'll be spending a whole helluva lot more time finding it. Glad you got it sorted out.

Rat Fink
09-26-2010, 10:28 AM
The worst engine destruction from something falling into the cylinders that I have ever seen was with a convertible chrysler lebaron back in the day. 2.5L

It came into the shop i was working in because the owner wanted a second opinion. Crappy tire told them the timing belt was broken. This is a non-interference engine so the first thing we did was crank the engine over while peeking into the timing cover to look at the belt and whether it was turning or not. We cranked the engine over and the oil cap blew off the valve cover with a flame blowing out of it too!!! WTF!??

We used a borescope and looked down into the spark plug holes and 2 of the pistons were GONE!! We pulled the engine and inspected it. We found a washer mashed up to hell and back. What happened was it got dropped down the intake and entered 1 of the cylinders. By the marks we found in the head and intake manifold, it looked like this washer got slammed around in one cylinder and then travelled back up the intake and over to the other cylinder. CRAZIEST SHIT EVER. 2 of the pistons grenaded themselves until they were nothing more than aquarium sized pea gravel in the bottom of the oilpan. We talked to the owner about this washer and his face went white. Apparently he had been fucking around with his air cleaner (changed his own air filter) and must've dropped that washer into the intake at that time.

Lots of engines have been killed off by throttle body screws too. If you ever buy a new throttle body, make sure the screws are staked on the backside to prevent them from being able to turn out.

Mibz
09-26-2010, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Rat Fink
What happened was it got dropped down the intake and entered 1 of the cylinders. By the marks we found in the head and intake manifold, it looked like this washer got slammed around in one cylinder and then travelled back up the intake and over to the other cylinder. WTF

Alak
09-27-2010, 12:35 AM
Long ago, a friend of mine had a supercharged Rx-7, like it was an old school twin screw blower on a rotary. Pretty cool.

I was peeking down the carb (standard 4 barrel holley) to inspect the supercharger rotors, when I couldn't help but notice a mark on one. I took the carb off to get a closer look, and it looked exactly like a perfect bolt imprint in the rotor of the supercharger. there was no metal missing, no chuncks, nothing dramatic, except a perfectly defined bolt imprint. Well, lets do a compression check. Compression was a little low on one of the rotor faces, but nothing TOO significant. But for some reason, the pre-silencer in the exhaust always had a rattle.

Short version is, the stud that holds the airfilter on, fell off, and made its way in the motor. Since rotaries have no valves, it made its way through the engine, out the exhaust and became trapped in the baffled pre-silencer. When we took the motor apart, years later when it finally blew, you could see where the stud imprinted into the rotor and housing. How the motor didnt blow is beyond me.

I asked him when he noticed the filter housing was missing the stud. He says, I donno a couple years ago it did that. I put loctite on it after it disappeared. By my calculations, the motor ran strong for at least 4 years after the initial bolt incident. And they say rotaries are un-reliable.

BerserkerCatSplat
09-27-2010, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by spikers
just use the starter I have on the truck...fuck man, just take the entire drivetrain, i don't care.

Righto, let me know how things go on Wednesday. I'm waiting to hear back on another motor (got the 5.9 fever) but I'll make the final decision on what's going to happen on Sunday.

spikerS
09-29-2010, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by spikers
well, the insurance appraiser came out today to take a look at the truck, and thinks it will be repaired...

:nut:

So, I have to get it to a shop for repairs.

His first thought for value of the truck was $6k, and asked if I had done any research, and I told him it looks like trucks like mine are selling for about $8k, and he said that was reasonable and said that if they did write off the truck, $8k would not be an issue.

so I am happy lol. Ideally I would like my truck repaired.

So because of the frame damage, I will have to get it towed to the repair shop.

That is from my thread.

So, if the truck is repairable, sorry man, I am keeping the drive train, but I still think there is a good chance that it is going to be written off once the body shop sees it.

BerserkerCatSplat
10-03-2010, 02:28 PM
Fair enough, just let me know. I'm a bit pressed for time and storage right now, so I may have to decide what I'm doing today, whether to rebuild the 318, rebuild a 360, or somehow get a junkyard motor.

JY motor is cheapest, but risky.
318 is cheapest rebuilt as my block is still in good shape, but I need a head.
360 is more $ to rebuild as I assume it would need to be balanced.

projekz
10-03-2010, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
Fair enough, just let me know. I'm a bit pressed for time and storage right now, so I may have to decide what I'm doing today, whether to rebuild the 318, rebuild a 360, or somehow get a junkyard motor.

JY motor is cheapest, but risky.
318 is cheapest rebuilt as my block is still in good shape, but I need a head.
360 is more $ to rebuild as I assume it would need to be balanced.

Just rebuild your engine. You'll know exactly what you have and it'll be compatible with everything you already have.I wanna go wheeling with you :D Check this link for a head:
http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-CYLINDER-HEADS-INVENTORY-BLOWOUT-W0QQAdIdZ232881847

BerserkerCatSplat
10-03-2010, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by projekz


Just rebuild your engine. You'll know exactly what you have and it'll be compatible with everything you already have.I wanna go wheeling with you :D Check this link for a head:
http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-CYLINDER-HEADS-INVENTORY-BLOWOUT-W0QQAdIdZ232881847

I actually asked them about heads a few months back (premonition, apparently) and the 318 heads they have for cheap are the old LA heads, that won't work on the Magnum blocks.

Basically, my dilemma is this:

I have a 318 block, it's good. How good? Almost 400,000km on it and the cylinder block walls still have visible crosshatching. Measured it out today and all bores are within spec, so no machine work required. The bad is that along with the re-ring job, it also needs a new set of pistons, more $$$. One of the heads is lunched, again, $.

The 360 I'm looking at is one that had its harmonic balancer blow up and spun a main bearing. The engine has been stripped down and hot-tanked. The crank needs to be shaved down 10, other than that it's all there (minus the intake, already have it) and just needs to be re-ringed. 190,000k on the motor. No need for pistons, heads, etc. $150 for everything. If I can get a crank and a junkyard harmonic balancer for a reasonable price, it'll actually be cheaper to build the 360 since I don't need to buy new pistons and heads. The guy was supposed to bring the thing to me today but got called off to work, otherwise I'd have made a decision already. As far as compatibility goes, it will bolt straight into my truck, I'm far from the first guy to try this.

My 5.2 cam & lifters will also swap straight in and give a bit more power than the stock 5.9 cam.

spikerS
10-03-2010, 10:17 PM
well, I am still waiting to hear on my truck and what they plan to do with it.

Sorry I can't get them going any faster.

AndyL
10-03-2010, 10:44 PM
Other option is to head down to pyp and grab some used pistons and a head... Not like there's 30000 dodge products in there to choose from :)

It's not like pistons are a wearing part - safer to grab new pistons, reuse your con rods, new wrist pins - and slap another matching head on and call 'er done... Save yourself a complete rebuild - and you end up with the parts you know...

projekz
10-04-2010, 03:58 PM
Quite the dilemma! Not sure what I would do. It's nice to see you got around 400,000kms tho...very encouraging :thumbsup: