Question about SAIT diplomas

[Q-TIP]

I was just talking to an acquaintance and she insisted that her Nuclear Medicine course at SAIT is a 4-year degree crammed into 2 years. Now, I've done some reading and it is 69 credit hours which to me is not a full 120 credit hour degree.

Is the workload in a diploma such as this comparable to double the work of a university degree over a two-year period? I get sort of defensive when people argue that a diploma is the same as a degree as I spend a lot of time and effort getting my B.Sc.

[Type_S1]

It's SAIT. Don't doubt yourself. SAIT is not comparable to university in any way possible. You are recieving a degree, they are getting a diploma.

Every person I know at SAIT brags about how they are going to be making 100K/year easily with the program they take etc etc...when reality it does not provide near the oppurtunities or recognition of MRU of U of C.

:closed: :D

[Clever]

From personal experience, there are certain programs, certification that you can acquire from SAIT that can lead to great opportunities. A few of my friends work in the patch as geologist, and they only needed to get a certificate from SAIT in order to do so, but don't get me wrong, they paid their dues as they had to train for several months others a a year before they started making mid to high 6 figures. Then again, they don't walk around bragging about what they make and what their credentials are.

[topmade]

:thumbsup: to the SAIT recruiters who are managing to brainwash these people thinking their Diploma is equivalent to a University degree. Although a Diploma isn't bad and if you present yourself well it can get you places, but don't be mistaken, it's called a Diploma for a reason and it's not a Degree.

[leftwing]

Comming out of SAIT, you might not make as much as a student from U of C or wherever, but your only in school for 2 years vs. 4years. Your also given a career, and SAIT has a 91% graduate rate which is unreal. Not to mention alot of people that come out of SAIT do make real good money.

But to the OP, they are definatly just diplomas. SAIT does offer degree programs now, but the 2 year courses are for sure just diplomas.

[boosted_Z]

Degrees are the same as diplomas in that both are just resume fillers to get you an interview. Then it's down to the person, skills, and requirements for the job.

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by Clever
From personal experience, there are certain programs, certification that you can acquire from SAIT that can lead to great opportunities. A few of my friends work in the patch as geologist, and they only needed to get a certificate from SAIT in order to do so, but don't get me wrong, they paid their dues as they had to train for several months others a a year before they started making mid to high 6 figures. Then again, they don't walk around bragging about what they make and what their credentials are.
lol, paid there dues for a year to make ~750,000. clearly the sait is the way to go


Originally posted by boosted_Z
Degrees are the same as diplomas in that both are just resume fillers to get you an interview. Then it's down to the person, skills, and requirements for the job.
what if they job requires a b.sc?

OP, a B.sc is obviously more prestigous than a diploma. I also go through the same thing when my friends from sait call themselves engineers. I have to go to school for 4 years, and then 4 years of training to be one. I don't let them bother me though, I just chalk it up to their ignorance

[t-im]

Another thing to note: if you have any intention to apply for grad school, a diploma won't cut it (for the most part).

[ixlr8]

To say they are equivalent is blatantly ignorant.

That being said, SAIT forces you to take only specific courses directly related to your intended career. As well, for most diplomas they force you to be there all day, five days a week. There is no wiggle room for easy credit basket weaving courses or the like.

The only real benefit to SAIT is it is very structured and pinpoint specific to the practical skills needed for the intended career path. University affords much more personal choice, the ability to learn about a wider array of topics, a lot more theory, and of course opportunity for continued studies and specialization post grad.

It all comes down to marketing; these institutions are businesses after all, and they each need their pitch to get you to spend your money on what they are selling.

It doesn't matter what your friend believes about her diploma or what you believe about your degree. If they are getting you both where you want to be as individuals then really there is no conversation to be had, other than meaningless egotistical posturing.

[dirtsniffer]

^^ very well said:clap:

[l/l/rX]

Originally posted by Type_S1
It's SAIT. Don't doubt yourself. SAIT is not comparable to university in any way possible. You are recieving a degree, they are getting a diploma.

Every person I know at SAIT brags about how they are going to be making 100K/year easily with the program they take etc etc...when reality it does not provide near the oppurtunities or recognition of MRU of U of C.

:closed: :D

ouch... soo much bashing here about sait diplomas. haha

But like you said, it may not provide you with a wide range of opportunities but it all depends on where you want to go with it. For me it was more about who i knew out in the industry, i got my in and for that i am truly thankful. For sure the degree will beat out my diploma when it comes to...wanting to be an i-banker. But did I want to become an i-banker? No, wasn't in my interest to go that way.

Someone said here degrees and diplomas are just resume fillers, I agree when it comes down to my situation, I did financial services at SAIT and the stuff im doing now is project controls/ cost engineering type stuff, I'm totally deviating away from what I studied for the last 2 years.

Thankfully, with this job I have now, there is a lot of room to grow, there are plenty of opportunities for me within this company or anywhere around the world that uses SAP data base.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Clever
From personal experience, there are certain programs, certification that you can acquire from SAIT that can lead to great opportunities. A few of my friends work in the patch as geologist, and they only needed to get a certificate from SAIT in order to do so, but don't get me wrong, they paid their dues as they had to train for several months others a a year before they started making mid to high 6 figures. Then again, they don't walk around bragging about what they make and what their credentials are.

Can I have some of the crack you are smoking?

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by ixlr8
To say they are equivalent is blatantly ignorant.

That being said, SAIT forces you to take only specific courses directly related to your intended career. As well, for most diplomas they force you to be there all day, five days a week. There is no wiggle room for easy credit basket weaving courses or the like.

The only real benefit to SAIT is it is very structured and pinpoint specific to the practical skills needed for the intended career path. University affords much more personal choice, the ability to learn about a wider array of topics, a lot more theory, and of course opportunity for continued studies and specialization post grad.

It all comes down to marketing; these institutions are businesses after all, and they each need their pitch to get you to spend your money on what they are selling.

It doesn't matter what your friend believes about her diploma or what you believe about your degree. If they are getting you both where you want to be as individuals then really there is no conversation to be had, other than meaningless egotistical posturing.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by l/l/rX


ouch... soo much bashing here about sait diplomas. haha

But like you said, it may not provide you with a wide range of opportunities but it all depends on where you want to go with it. For me it was more about who i knew out in the industry, i got my in and for that i am truly thankful. For sure the degree will beat out my diploma when it comes to...wanting to be an i-banker. But did I want to become an i-banker? No, wasn't in my interest to go that way.

Someone said here degrees and diplomas are just resume fillers, I agree when it comes down to my situation, I did financial services at SAIT and the stuff im doing now is project controls/ cost engineering type stuff, I'm totally deviating away from what I studied for the last 2 years.

Thankfully, with this job I have now, there is a lot of room to grow, there are plenty of opportunities for me within this company or anywhere around the world that uses SAP data base.

No, I think you took it wrong. I'm not bashing SAIT diplomas at all. I think everyone should have some post-secondary education. I am bashing the people at SAIT who are brainwashed to believe they will make anything near a **competant** university graduate will. I personally have friends claiming they will make 6 figures in two years out of SAIT which just makes me feel bad for them. They are not stupid they are simply brainwashed from what SAIT tells them. I have 2 friends from SAIT who cannot currently find a job unless they move to butt-fuck nowhere for 35-45k a year--these kids are not stupid either they said there is about 15-20 kids in the same graduating class with no work. 2 other people I know who graduated who are around the 45k mark at there jobs.

Now comparing to normal university graduates range in the 50-60k out of school. The brainwashed SAIT students then claim well I have 2 years experience and didnt have to pay for 2 more years of school. Simple math would show this is a stupid argument considering pay coming into an entry level position out of SAIT is not going to have huge pay increase IE. 25% a year so they reach the 100k mark.

On top of this people who go to SAIT or other technical institutes usually end up working under people with degree's...tell me how they going to make as much/more then a university graduate.

Everything I am saying here is excluding technical things at SAIT like plumbing, welding, automotive etc...these of course need to be done at SAIT.

Coles notes:
SAIT students are brainwashed into thinking they will be rich and have as much prestige as graduating with a degree.

[boosted_Z]

It's "resume filler" since the SKILLS and EXPERIENCE section is probably where most potential employers are looking to determine who gets an interview.


A good comparison of applicants would be a 2 year IT diploma from SAIT with 2 years of entry level experience VS a new Computer Science grad.

In some cases 2 years of related work and client interactions would give the SAIT grad the edge. Other times the Degree persons general coursework, summer internships, or specific class experience would give them the edge.

Salary I would expect to be VERY even.


Insecure people justifying their choice of schooling or touting anything the schools claim as fact is :facepalm: worthy. Diplomas have their place and so do Degrees. They're mostly incomparable and you're dumb if you think having either entitles you to 6 figures.


Also, I know having a degree is an easy way to get a work permit in the US. Not sure if the same is true for a diploma.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by boosted_Z
It's "resume filler" since the SKILLS and EXPERIENCE section is probably where most potential employers are looking to determine who gets an interview.


A good comparison of applicants would be a 2 year IT diploma from SAIT with 2 years of entry level experience VS a new Computer Science grad.

Or, maybe a person specializing in Computer Science or IT and never received a degree or diploma in the area at all! ;)

[bignerd]

I think the demand and salary range depends on what program you take at SAIT. Many of the people in the medical imaging programs are hired before graduation while doing practicums.

I agree with pp, different strokes for different folks.

[Clever]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer

lol, paid there dues for a year to make ~750,000. clearly the sait is the way to go






Originally posted by mazdavirgin


Can I have some of the crack you are smoking?


I must be smoking crack, i'm an old man, early dementia perhaps, I apologize. I should have been more specific, some people in that line of work make mid to high six figures, but the people I know who do well site geology make about $1k/ day, that is after some time working as a well site geologist but not right away and the only credentials they needed was a certificate from SAIT. The training is the tricky part, you train on your own dime and time. It can take several months to a year for some depending on how many rigs you train in. One of the guys I know who does this is a member on here, maybe he can explain the process better.

Also, I'm not saying that a diploma is better than a degree, I may have dementia at times but i'm not delusional.

[B20EF]

I have both a SAIT diploma and a U of L degree. With SAIT my program did have 7 or 8 classes per semester. 4 were the same courses taken in any university for business like: micro, macro, marketing, accounting etc. Then the other 3 or 4 classes were useless SAIT made-up courses for your specific program which five years later I can hardly remember like: wine tasting, event management, serving etc..

So to say SAIT is four years crammed into two is wrong. You aren't taking 8 university level courses per semester. You are taking usually 4 and then 3 fluffers. My SAIT specific courses always seemed easier and made me frustrated because I felt they were a waste of time.

Then uni was uni. Less direction so I actually had to read my text books, lol.

[Mamma_Mia]

Originally posted by bignerd
I think the demand and salary range depends on what program you take at SAIT. Many of the people in the medical imaging programs are hired before graduation while doing practicums.

I agree with pp, different strokes for different folks.

I totally agree with you!! I have a friend that has two degrees and is almost done her masters, and she has been out of work for a year!!! She wants to go to SAIT for the medical imaging program. My Aunt got into that program many years ago and she says that starting pay at the clinic she works at is 80 grand a year.

[cars5431]

at the end of the day we are a paper society now, university education is usually preffered(99.9% of the time) over a tech school, i have a sait diploma in petroleum and i believe it is very dependent on the company u work for and your work ethic, it is what you make for yourself, paper is paper, it may restrict you some day (ie manger or vp promotions) but that is a decision you have to make when you go to school. work hard and you would be surprised where it takes you

[l/l/rX]

Originally posted by Type_S1


No, I think you took it wrong. I'm not bashing SAIT diplomas at all. I think everyone should have some post-secondary education. I am bashing the people at SAIT who are brainwashed to believe they will make anything near a **competant** university graduate will. I personally have friends claiming they will make 6 figures in two years out of SAIT which just makes me feel bad for them. They are not stupid they are simply brainwashed from what SAIT tells them. I have 2 friends from SAIT who cannot currently find a job unless they move to butt-fuck nowhere for 35-45k a year--these kids are not stupid either they said there is about 15-20 kids in the same graduating class with no work. 2 other people I know who graduated who are around the 45k mark at there jobs.

Now comparing to normal university graduates range in the 50-60k out of school. The brainwashed SAIT students then claim well I have 2 years experience and didnt have to pay for 2 more years of school. Simple math would show this is a stupid argument considering pay coming into an entry level position out of SAIT is not going to have huge pay increase IE. 25% a year so they reach the 100k mark.

On top of this people who go to SAIT or other technical institutes usually end up working under people with degree's...tell me how they going to make as much/more then a university graduate.

Everything I am saying here is excluding technical things at SAIT like plumbing, welding, automotive etc...these of course need to be done at SAIT.

Coles notes:
SAIT students are brainwashed into thinking they will be rich and have as much prestige as graduating with a degree.

hehe then i think im the exception? I just started my job and I make more than most of my engineering friends, anywhere from mechanical, electrical to computer engineering. My friend is a computer engineer working for a smaller firm and has been working for the last 3 years at this company and I'm still making more than him.

I definitely make more than people articling for their CA. From now to Dec 31 is a very crucial time for me though, if the company decides to keep me on as a contractor they are going to get upper management to approve me to get incorporated, if all that goes through my salary will jump close to 15k.

There are soo many routes I can go with this job and depending on which way I want to go I can clear probably close to 400k/yr < - if i choose to go this route, the possibility to go to other companies around the world are endless.

FYI: I am not a tradesman, I work in an office in the O&G industry and I don't work out on the rigs/ field and I have a financial services diploma from SAIT.

My dad is an electrical technologist, diploma from SAIT, once his boss retires, he'll be the one to take that position. My dad does not have his Pengg. He also doesn't work for a small company.

[Mibz]

http://members.shaw.ca/mibz/deadhorse.jpg

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by l/l/rX
hehe then i think im the exception? I just started my job and I make more than most of my engineering friends, anywhere from mechanical, electrical to computer engineering. My friend is a computer engineer working for a smaller firm and has been working for the last 3 years at this company and I'm still making more than him.

Right so you are comparing yourself to people from the high tech sector which is known to be underpaid while you work in oil and gas? Try comparing your salary to the folk working oil and gas with engineering degrees. A budy of mine works technical sales for a drill bit company has been out of school for 4 years or so and he is making a base salary of 120k, he has a work truck, free gas, dining cards for clients and bonuses roughly in the 10-15% of his net salary range.

Frankly he is paid insanely in my opinion for someone so young and considering he works in an office five days a week eight hours a day...

[Rat Fink]

.

[t-im]

Originally posted by l/l/rX

I definitely make more than people articling for their CA.

That doesn't mean much. People don't pursue their CA for immediate money, it's the bigger (future) picture that counts. Everyone knows articling is slave labor.

[l/l/rX]

Originally posted by t-im

That doesn't mean much. People don't pursue their CA for immediate money, it's the bigger (future) picture that counts. Everyone knows articling is slave labor.

yaa sorry that was an extremely poor example. hahaha. hmm k well just comparing apples to apples my engineer friends in the O&G industry are making less than what I make at the moment, but i still have the opportunity for me to grow a lot with a SAIT diploma in this current position i am still in.

Anyways Im not here to have a my cock is bigger than your cock competition, just simply wanted to get a point across, once you get your in and you work hard your opportunities can be endless with a diploma or a degree imho.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by l/l/rX


There are soo many routes I can go with this job and depending on which way I want to go I can clear probably close to 400k/yr &lt; - if i choose to go this route, the possibility to go to other companies around the world are endless.

Wow lol

That's some serious $$$ lol

You need to be a recruiter for SAIT if that works out for you.

[yourmom]

Everyone is forgetting the things people lie about, # of beers drank, # of women slept with, and the amount of money they make.

Diploma, or Degree, if you work hard, and are somewhat personable you should be able to get a good paying job.

[Pahnda]

About the argument of degree vs diploma and their worth: who the hell cares?

To the question from the OP: No a 2 year diploma isn't the same as a 4 year degree. There's a reason you can't go into grad school with it. Why don't you tell your friend she could just be uber efficient and cram her 2 years into 1 with Phoenix Online or some other garbage school? Same argument.

But really, who cares? If what you WANT to do takes only a 2 year diploma, do that. You can always upgrade at a university later. If you want to go into medicine, law, teaching, grad studies, or something that would require a university degree, do that.

The end.

[Cos]

Originally posted by yourmom
Everyone is forgetting the things people lie about, # of beers drank, # of women slept with, and the amount of money they make.

Diploma, or Degree, if you work hard, and are somewhat personable you should be able to get a good paying job.

:thumbsup:


Also LOL at penny arcade

[bignerd]

Also I never spoke with a SAIT recruiter, I just knew they offered the program I wanted to get into, and living in Calgary and owning a home here, it made sense to apply there first.

I know a diploma is not the same as a degree, but as my diploma will be for a career I want to do and there are a variety of options available (teaching, training, research, clinics/hospitals) I am happy with my decision (at this time).

They do tell you about salary expectations, but being in a medical field it is already common knowledge what the position is paid (as well salary expectations they gave were correct and matched what people in the industry had told me.)

[Tilly]

degrees and diplomas are two different beasts. not to mention that each is completely dissimilar from the other. each school has different programs, and thus different ends to their means.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, those with diplomas will generally, perhaps in the long run, be doing different jobs and work in different positions than those with degrees. it really depends on how much accountability one wants to take on, as those with diplomas for instance will always have a much lower ceiling in terms of potential growth than those with degrees. in engineering, for instance, only the individual with the degree will be able to stamp an approval for potential work.

[iCreep]

Originally posted by max_boost


Wow lol

That's some serious $$$ lol

You need to be a recruiter for SAIT if that works out for you.

edit

[Cos]

Originally posted by Tilly
degrees and diplomas are two different beasts. not to mention that each is completely dissimilar from the other. each school has different programs, and thus different ends to their means.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, those with diplomas will generally, perhaps in the long run, be doing different jobs and work in different positions than those with degrees. it really depends on how much accountability one wants to take on, as those with diplomas for instance will always have a much lower ceiling in terms of potential growth than those with degrees. in engineering, for instance, only the individual with the degree will be able to stamp an approval for potential work.

I was going to agree with you but now only can on your first paragraph. I for one have ZERO interest in ever doing standards work for my corporation. We have techs working in there but the glass ceiling exists. However in my department (operations) there is no such ceiling so far. Your second paragraph is wrong, see both links below for more info.

A tech can be certified under both ASET or APEGGA to stamp work. A company I work very close with that runs under the P.L. Engg Certification. I am working towards my P.Tech right now as my company has a P.Eng on staff I can use as my senior. I can stamp all our drawings in house as long as our senior is ensuring I am following methodology. Not a whole lot different than the one who holds their name on the permit who makes sure the other P.Eng's are doing a good job. Once he retires (or we open an office in BC) I can apply for P.L. Eng. and stamp everything for my own office.

AFAIK the difference between P.Tech and P.L. Eng. is under P.L. Eng. I can hold the permit, where as under P.Tech I cannot hold the permit but have full stamping rights.


http://www.apegga.org/Applicants/Professional-Licensee/toc.html

http://www.aset.ab.ca/pages/Membership/PTech-Eng.aspx

[Markov7]

Originally posted by Cos


I was going to agree with you on your first paragraph. I for one have ZERO interest in ever doing standards work for my corporation. We have techs working in there but the glass ceiling exists. However in my department (operations) there is no such ceiling so far.

Your second paragraph is wrong, see both links below for more info. A tech can be certified under both ASET or APEGGA to stamp work.

I know a company I work very close with that runs under the P.L. Engg Cert and I am working towards my P.Tech right now as my company has a P.Eng on staff I can use as my senior. I can stamp all our drawings in house as long as our senior is ensuring I am following methodology. Not a whole lot different than the one who holds their name on the permit who makes sure the other P.Eng's are doing a good job.

Once he retires (or we open an office in BC) I can apply for P.L. Engg. and stamp everything for my own office.

http://www.apegga.org/Applicants/Professional-Licensee/toc.html

http://www.aset.ab.ca/pages/Membership/PTech-Eng.aspx

http://www.peng.ca/english/students/four.html

[Cos]

Originally posted by Markov7


http://www.peng.ca/english/students/four.html

Did you even read the apegga link I posted?

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Cos


Did you even read the apegga link I posted? Engineers are too busy making millions to read a link from a petty technologist.

[Cos]

Originally posted by Mibz
Engineers are too busy making millions to read a link from a petty technologist.

:eek:

Shit your right, let me scurry back to my hole.... I mean cubicle

[iCreep]

Originally posted by Cos


Did you even read the apegga link I posted?

im not an engineer but is geoscience technologist a general term for all engineer technologists?

i think his point was "step one: obtain a degree from an accredited engineering program" :dunno: :dunno:

[Cos]

Originally posted by iCreep


im not an engineer but is geoscience technologist a general term for all engineer technologists?

i think his point was &quot;step one: obtain a degree from an [b]accredited engineering program[b]&quot;

You are right, and I was careful in my post to never once say a Technologist can be a P.Eng. We can be a P.L. Eng which means we are Licensed to do engineering work at the level of an engineer. It does not mean we are granted rights because I took 2 more years of school at a certified university.

If I want to be a PL Eng you have to take at least 2 years of school and work for at least 6 and have a P.Eng say that applicant is competent. A lot of foreign engineers from Asia can qualify for PL Eng

If I want to be a P.Eng I would have to go back to UVic and take the bridge course and get a full degree.

Since the guy who owns the engineering company with PL Eng seems to be doing okay and enjoyable work... I am happy with my path.

[iCreep]

Originally posted by Cos


You are right, and I was careful in my post to never once say a Technologist can be a P.Eng. We can be a P.L. Eng which means we are Licensed to do engineering work at the level of an engineer. It does not mean we are granted rights because I took 2 more years of school at a certified university.

OOOOOh I see the difference now. thanks for clearing that up.

[Cos]

Originally posted by iCreep


OOOOOh I see the difference now. thanks for clearing that up.

No problem. Also sorry for editing my post out from under you, I gotta stop doing that. :D

[iCreep]

Originally posted by Cos


No problem. Also sorry for editing my post out from under you, I gotta stop doing that. :D

i did the same to you, all good ;)

[Cos]

Oh and iCreep, I would think (but dont know for sure, I am in electrical) that a geoscience technologist would be the same as any other level of technologist with schooling in geosciences.

Same as the difference between a mechanical engineering technologist, electrical engineering technologist, chemical..... etc. etc. etc

We are all technologists in different fields?

:dunno:

[l/l/rX]

Originally posted by max_boost


Wow lol

That's some serious $$$ lol

You need to be a recruiter for SAIT if that works out for you.

it is some serious coin. But to tell you the truth, I would never endorse SAIT. LOL!!! I just struck out lucky by having my friend get me an interview and the rest was up to me, after a month of being here they are really impressed with my performance considering the lack of knowledge i had about O&G and this system we use...it definitely won't pan out like that for everyone.

I was just trying to prove a point that in MY situation, diploma later on down the road i can make some not bad money for myself.

If I ever have kids, I will definitely push them to get a degree rather than a diploma.