mandatory overtime: legal?

[David Ginola]

I work 8 hours per day, Mon-Fri. Today, my boss comes in and tells us the whole company of 450 people are going to be required to work ten hour shifts from Mon-Thur, and an eight hour shift on Fridays. He says it is mandatory overtime. Is this legal? They want us to start at 6am and finish at 4:30pm. Construction job.

[kevie88]

Are you going to be paid properly for it?

[Awd-Tsi]

I had 1 hour mandatory overtime at a shitty ass job and they said if we don't like it quit... I no longer work there.

[David Ginola]

Yeah, they're going to pay us time and a half after 40 hours, even though they only have to pay it after 44. The thing is, I live very very far away and I'm not interested in the overtime even with the extra money. Is there anything I can do?

[Spoons]

No you can't refuse it. Legally they can make you work 12 hours a day. Don't like it, quit. It's exactly what they will tell you.

And what do you know, its the first link on google. God people are dumb, they didn't make google for you to ask beyond all your questions.

Click me for enlightenment! (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Can+you+be+forced+to+work+overtime+in+Alberta%3F)

[B20EF]

Originally posted by David Ginola
Yeah, they're going to pay us time and a half after 40 hours, even though they only have to pay it after 44. The thing is, I live very very far away and I'm not interested in the overtime even with the extra money. Is there anything I can do?

No its Ot after 40 hourswith a 5 day work week
Its OT after 44 hours with a 6 day work week

[ercchry]

Originally posted by B20EF


No its Ot after 40 hourswith a 5 day work week
Its OT after 44 hours with a 6 day work week

source?



its OT after 8 hours a day... OT after 44 hours a week. ie. work a full 40 hour week, come in saturday, get OT after the first 4 hours of your saturday shift

but why the hell would you not want to work the extra hours?! that shit adds up quick.

thats an extra 34.7 hours a month... but you get paid for an extra 52 hours a month! that is an extra 30% worth of paid hours over a year... i dunno how much you make but that is a huge pay bump for a measly 2 extra hours out of your day 4 times a week

[B20EF]

Originally posted by ercchry
source?

http://employment.alberta.ca/SFW/1470.html

When you think about it if it's a 5 day week then its:

8hrs/day x 5 days = 40 hours - if you do more than 8 hours any of those days its OT

Or, OT after 44hrs for when you work 6 days because even if its just
8hrs/day x 6days = 48 hours - 4 hrs OT

Maybe thats a poor explanation but its correct

[kaput]

.

[D. Dub]

Harden up and make some money?

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by D. Dub
Harden up and make some money?

Here here man, the "i dont want overtime" attitude wont get you far. Sometimes i end up doing 12-14 hours a day if we have a job to push out. One time i made 1600$ in one week take home haha.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki


Here here man, the "i dont want overtime" attitude wont get you far. Sometimes i end up doing 12-14 hours a day if we have a job to push out. One time i made 1600$ in one week take home haha.

Do you really think some people want to work 12 hour days? I know I wouldn't. $1600 a week for 12hour days is horrible IMO

[D. Dub]

^^^

Never judge another man's wallet by the size of your own.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by Type_S1


Do you really think some people want to work 12 hour days? I know I wouldn't. $1600 a week for 12hour days is horrible IMO

Really? That's not a half bad hourly rate if you break it down as being 5 12 hours days considering he said it was $1600 take-home too.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs


Really? That's not a half bad hourly rate if you break it down as being 5 12 hours days considering he said it was $1600 take-home too.

About $30/hour averaging 13 hour days for 5 days. That's a good working mans wage.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


About $30/hour averaging 13 hour days for 5 days. That's a good working mans wage. '

Agreed, my quick estimates were putting it at about 30-33/hour which is far from a "horrible" wage

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs
'

Agreed, my quick estimates were putting it at about 30-33/hour which is far from a "horrible" wage

31 :D not to brag. i have to put time in, im foreman/supervisor. job needs to get done. It kinda goes in cycles at my shop, mostly i do 8 hour days, but sometimes contractors have their heads up their asses...well..most times actually, and i end up having to crunch time in to get the job done by deadline. We are just finishing putting up a building, and i had to crunch a bunch of overtime in on that one. Our draftsman had his head up his ass and decided to put the wrong specs on our shop drawings, so basically we ended up having to go back and do double the welding, which should have been done in the first place, and it had to be done NOW!. Unfortunately, it seems that positions dont come without expectations, such as overtime. Show them you arent afraid to work man, show some gusto, maybe youll get promoted in some way or another.

[GQBalla]

I would rather not be paid out for any OT I do. You should bank the hours instead. I dunno why but anytime I've done OT I get taxed like crazy

[danno]

My work doesn't pay ot very often. A few guys work 6 days a week 12 hour days and it's all regular time. The odd time they offer time and a half and then most guys go in. Those few guys that work for regular time screw everyone that waits for the better money. IMO they do it to get the promotion to foreman good for them I guess. Sucks for me

[Mibz]

Originally posted by GQBalla
I would rather not be paid out for any OT I do. You should bank the hours instead. I dunno why but anytime I've done OT I get taxed like crazy Word. You don't get taxed on days off.

[msommers]

Originally posted by GQBalla
I would rather not be paid out for any OT I do. You should bank the hours instead. I dunno why but anytime I've done OT I get taxed like crazy

But your tax returns are pretty nice!

[PD77]

Originally posted by GQBalla
I would rather not be paid out for any OT I do. You should bank the hours instead. I dunno why but anytime I've done OT I get taxed like crazy

I hate how badly the government dings you on the big cheques...when I was doing rotations up to the north slope in Alaska my average 2 week deduction was insane.

Glad to see it get's put to good use :banghead:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by GQBalla
I would rather not be paid out for any OT I do. You should bank the hours instead. I dunno why but anytime I've done OT I get taxed like crazy

I always want to take days off instead, but the outcome is inevitably the same. Whenever I work a crap load, it's like "Hmm, sweet I've got 40 hours, can take a week off, butttttt if I just cash out, I'll have $1500 bucks extra in my pocket after taxes..."

Money wins every time. It doesn't help that it seems when I have a bunch of banked time, something comes up that I need some money for (usually car parts, the curse of having 4 vehicles)

[ercchry]

remember if you bank it they can bank at straight time... so goodbye time and a half

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by ercchry
remember if you bank it they can bank at straight time... so goodbye time and a half

Our company doesn't do that. Mind you we also don't "bank" the time really, if we work OT, and want days off instead it has to be within one month of earning it, otherwise the money just goes on the next months cheque automatically

[Jsen-DC2]

Originally posted by David Ginola
I work 8 hours per day, Mon-Fri. Today, my boss comes in and tells us the whole company of 450 people are going to be required to work ten hour shifts from Mon-Thur, and an eight hour shift on Fridays. He says it is mandatory overtime. Is this legal? They want us to start at 6am and finish at 4:30pm. Construction job.

can i get a job at your place!?!?!?!

i dont ever get overtime lol

[cam_wmh]

for most of my friends/family, i find september is often the busiest work month of the year.

i am swamped with work.

[bignerd]

Originally posted by GQBalla
I would rather not be paid out for any OT I do. You should bank the hours instead. I dunno why but anytime I've done OT I get taxed like crazy

I have heard the reason for this is that the you are taxed on your overtime paycheque like you made this money every week (and therefore would gross some huge amount of money at the end of the year, bumping you into a higher tax bracket), even though the increase may only be for one check. So since you really do not make $150,000 per year, they tax you on the one cheque like you do, so at the end of the year when you only made $75,000 you get most of the tax you paid on your overtime back as a refund.

[AllGoNoShow]

Be a man, do da right thing! Work!!!

Don't cry about hours, suck it up and work, their giving you a great chance to make money, extra money long before christmas when you will need it to take a nice holliday. Hell I work 10-12 hours a day normal, 5 days a week + 6 on saturday, on Salary, so f you!

[Q-TIP]

Originally posted by GQBalla
I would rather not be paid out for any OT I do. You should bank the hours instead. I dunno why but anytime I've done OT I get taxed like crazy

Your employer will charge you a higher marginal tax rate, however when your average tax is calculated at the end of the year you will be entitled to a rebate on all tax over payments.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by Type_S1


Do you really think some people want to work 12 hour days? I know I wouldn't. $1600 a week for 12hour days is horrible IMO
I do, I work 12 hour days, but 4 on 4 off. Somehow in respect to the 4 days off, working 12 hours isnt so bad. Besides you get used to it after a week or two at the most. :dunno:

It doesn't bother me in the least now.

Back before when I started we so were SO understaffed I as well as countless other people had to work 14-18 hour days.
A few co-workers had to do 20-22 hours on one particular day. (probably the worst ever day for catastrophic fuck ups, each compounding the problem) :nut: THAT is horrendous. 14-16 is about as much as one should ever do; only once in a while. Work those hours for two weeks straight without a single day off (like I did), and that kids: is called burning out lol. :whipped:
My worst ever was working a 36 hour "day" while in the oil patch. We had no time to sleep, just go from rig site to rig site to rig site.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Mibz
Word. You don't get taxed on days off.

But I can't pay the mortgage with days off either.

I can't believe someone is complaining about OT. Back when I was working hourly I grabbed every minute of OT I could get my hands on. The company I was working for at the time didn't pay it out, rather bank it. When I left they owed me over three months pay. That was a nice chunk of cash to be walking out the door with.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


But I can't pay the mortgage with days off either.

I can't believe someone is complaining about OT. Back when I was working hourly I grabbed every minute of OT I could get my hands on. The company I was working for at the time didn't pay it out, rather bank it. When I left they owed me over three months pay. That was a nice chunk of cash to be walking out the door with.

No offense to the OP, but i do notice its something with this generation, as far as the sense of entitlement is concerned. I believe its been discussed in a few other threads, but man, nobody has any gusto anymore. This generation is lazy as fuck. When i was a kid, i grew up on a farm, i was out working, doing chores. I had stalls to clean, a MASSIVE lawn to mow, and my mom wouldnt spring for a riding mower, so guess what, i spend 4 hours of my saturday push mowing our lot. Bah, take the OT, the goverment still pretty much assrapes you on it, but you still get a pretty good chunk.

[lint]

so there's a problem with putting in an 8 hr day and going home to spend some quality time with your family?

why is it so hard to understand that it's not all about the money to everyone?

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by lint
so there's a problem with putting in an 8 hr day and going home to spend some quality time with your family?

why is it so hard to understand that it's not all about the money to everyone?

Oh dont get me wrong, i love to spend time with my family too, and i do. But when we get busy, i take the overtime, its usually 2 or 3 weeks of OT max and then its back to normal time. Take it as you can get it, IMO. If your reason is truly to go home and have time with family, by all means do it. But remember this, what do you need to buy your family what they need, and keep a roof over their head, and get the kids toys.....MONEY. The more of it, the better.

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki


No offense to the OP, but i do notice its something with this generation, as far as the sense of entitlement is concerned. I believe its been discussed in a few other threads, but man, nobody has any gusto anymore. This generation is lazy as fuck. When i was a kid, i grew up on a farm, i was out working, doing chores. I had stalls to clean, a MASSIVE lawn to mow, and my mom wouldnt spring for a riding mower, so guess what, i spend 4 hours of my saturday push mowing our lot. Bah, take the OT, the goverment still pretty much assrapes you on it, but you still get a pretty good chunk.

Haha no, I think you missed the point of life entirely. But that's your opinion and you are entitled to do whatever you want with your time here. Me, personally, I would prefer my time to be outside of a cubicle for as long as possible.

[lint]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki


Oh dont get me wrong, i love to spend time with my family too, and i do. But when we get busy, i take the overtime, its usually 2 or 3 weeks of OT max and then its back to normal time. Take it as you can get it, IMO. If your reason is truly to go home and have time with family, by all means do it. But remember this, what do you need to buy your family what they need, and keep a roof over their head, and get the kids toys.....MONEY. The more of it, the better.

spending time with my kids is something money can't buy. I make more than enough to pay the mortgage, feed the family and buy the kids toys. I will work OT if something MUST get done. I don't work OT for the money.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by lint


spending time with my kids is something money can't buy. I make more than enough to pay the mortgage, feed the family and buy the kids toys. I will work OT if something MUST get done. I don't work OT for the money.

Yah i hear you man, but some people dont make enough money, and the overtime really helps. I guess it all really depends on your position in life. I make good money, and im happy with my job, i look forward to going to work, i get to be out on sites alot, meet lots of people, and generally do some pretty neat stuff. But you are correct, money cant buy spending time with the kids thats for sure. I dont LIKE ovetime, i would rather be at home, but when it needs to get done, and theres a deadline, i gotta be there.


yes, arian_ma, you could see it as missing the point of life, and thats fine, you too are entitled to you opinion. That is how i paid for things that i got when i was younger, my dirtbikes, quads, cars, etc. I got paid to do that, and it taught me that nothing comes for free, you earn everything in life. I want to pass that same philosophy on to my child as well. Its not like i spent my WHOLE childhood working, there was just times when i had to work, and it taught me a good work ethic. I wouldnt be in the position i am in now, if i was always trying to run from work.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
But I can't pay the mortgage with days off either. Are you seriously saying "I can't pay my mortgage without working overtime"? If so, you bought a house you can't afford and that has no bearing on this discussion.

[arian_ma]

No, he's saying that banking time does not equal extra cash in his pocket, just means that he can take time off while still getting paid, therefore he can't pay his mortgage down faster.

sr20s14zenki, good point, I didn't really take that into consideration.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Mibz
Are you seriously saying "I can't pay my mortgage without working overtime"? If so, you bought a house you can't afford and that has no bearing on this discussion.

arian_ma got it, what I meant was that if I'm going to work overtime I'd rather take the money (even with the minimal tax hit) versus days off down the road.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


arian_ma got it, what I meant was that if I'm going to work overtime I'd rather take the money (even with the minimal tax hit) versus days off down the road. My bad

[CapnCrunch]

Whats with all the pro overtime people on here? It's great when your 18, but who wants to be 40 and working 60 hour weeks?

[cet]

^ Sometimes you just have to do what it takes to get the job done. I've been working 60 hr weeks since the middle of August.

[spike98]

I dont know why some of you are bitching about OT. I WISH i got OT but i am salary. Sure there are some perks like leaving for doc appointments, sick days ect.

But when you have a plant turnaround and work 276 hours in on month it sucks. But as mentioned, its what it takes.

Just count your lucky stars you get paid for extra time and soak up the gravy.

[Cos]

Completely agree with pro OT people. Even now some people would kill to have a job. And you are complaining you have to work for paid OT? Shit I work lots of OT and I dont get paid for it, we can only bank it.

Personally it shows me the difference between someone who wants a better job and someone who just wants their cheque and to go home. I find the same thing with clothing, sure there is no hard and fast rule about not wearing a coors light sweatshirt when your drafting but guess why we dont take you golfing, or to client lunches?


Originally posted by lint
so there's a problem with putting in an 8 hr day and going home to spend some quality time with your family?

why is it so hard to understand that it's not all about the money to everyone?


Originally posted by cet
^ Sometimes you just have to do what it takes to get the job done. I've been working 60 hr weeks since the middle of August.

+1 CET. There is a difference between working OT all the time, and stepping up when the company needs you. I hate the guys who go home at 3:59 and I have projects I need out the door, but they arent working OT for it. Lets me know who I can trust (and ultimately have on my team as it grows) compared to who wants to do the bare minimum.

[alloroc]

Depends on the job as well.

Engineers and accountants certain management and commissioned sales people do not have to be paid OT.

I worked 25 days of OT in July and August and they shit a brick when I submitted my hours and asked for payment.

[lint]

Yes, it's all clear now. I choose to spend time with my wife and kids vs billing extra hrs so I am a lesser person. I am so lacking in education, skills and experience that I should consider myself lucky to be breathing, never mind being so fortunate to even be considered for employment. I should refocus and seek out as much OT as possible, because that is the only way to show my value. My career is dependent on those extra 1-2 hrs a day completely overshadow any of the work I can accomplish in the prior 8.

Thank you for the clarity

[Cos]

Originally posted by lint
Yes, it's all clear now. I choose to spend time with my wife and kids vs billing extra hrs so I am a lesser person. I am so lacking in education, skills and experience that I should consider myself lucky to be breathing, never mind being so fortunate to even be considered for employment. I should refocus and seek out as much OT as possible, because that is the only way to show my value. My career is dependent on those extra 1-2 hrs a day completely overshadow any of the work I can accomplish in the prior 8.

Thank you for the clarity

Well if you want to take it to a douche extreme then sure.... why not.

Seriously, you know that isnt what we are saying so no need to be a dick.

[Everlast]

I used to work tons of OT for my last job as it would pay out 2x or you can bank it for 2x the time (ie. work 1 hr, take 2 off)

If your company offers you that, can't you get more time off to spend with your family if you commit to some OT now?

I wish my current job would let me do OT....

[Jason Lange]

I didn't read the whole thread but keeping you employed...not mandatory. Take it or leave it.

[lint]

Originally posted by Cos
Well if you want to take it to a douche extreme then sure.... why not.

Seriously, you know that isnt what we are saying so no need to be a dick.

If that isn't what you're saying, it sure sounds like it.

Even now some people would kill to have a job

And you are complaining you have to work for paid OT?

Personally it shows me the difference between someone who wants a better job and someone who just wants their cheque and to go home.

You're confusing working LONGER HOURS with DOING A BETTER JOB.

[WhippWhapp]

Originally posted by David Ginola
Yeah, they're going to pay us time and a half after 40 hours, even though they only have to pay it after 44. The thing is, I live very very far away and I'm not interested in the overtime even with the extra money. Is there anything I can do?

Quit- problem solved.

A 10 hour day with weekends off is not that long, especially when you are getting time and a half for the extra work.

Is this a labour position? It seems that you don't like your job very much, or the pay is not commensurate with your duties.

Myself, I just finished twelve consecutive 12hour days, but I don't hate my job... and I love the pay.

[HungryJack]

Yea, those of us on salaries who don't get any kind of consideration for working 60+ hour weeks have no sympathy.

The way I look at it is, the ocmpany takes pretty good care of me with benefits, salary, etc. So if we're busy and I need to put in more time to get done what needs to be done, so be it.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by ercchry
remember if you bank it they can bank at straight time... so goodbye time and a half

Common misconception. OT is OT, whether you take in in pay or accumulated time off. (Unless you've signed a written agreement to be paid straight time ATO)

From http://employment.alberta.ca/SFW/1470.html:

Some employers and employees agree to replace overtime pay wholly or partly with time off with pay. This is done through the use of an overtime agreement...Overtime hours are calculated the same way under an overtime agreement as it would be if overtime pay is to be paid at time-and-a-half.



Another misconception is employees paid on a yearly salary basis. Except for a few specific industries...ANYONE who works overtime, legally, has to be paid OT rates:

All employees, including those who are paid a weekly, monthly, or annual salary, must be paid overtime pay for overtime hours they work. For annual salaries your hourly rate is usually based on a 2000 hour year. (50 weeks x 40 hours). So if your annual salary is $45,000 a year...your "hourly rate" for OT calculations will be: $22.50/hour...or $33.75/hour for OT time.



However in the REAL world...employers will try to get away from this. Also, in many types of work...ie: construction, etc. OT pay is almost never paid. It's "take it or leave it" by the boss.

As to the OP:

Can I refuse to work overtime?
No. The law does not give workers this right.
taken from: http://www.workrights.ca/content.php?doc=23

[HungryJack]

Technically if you are considered a manager or a supervisor, you aren't entitled to OT.

Alberta Employment Standards state:

Employees who are exempt from overtime and overtime pay

* employees on a farm or a ranch
* domestic employees
* various types of salespersons
* professionals such as real estate brokers, and licensed insurance and securities salespersons
* professions such as architects, engineers, lawyers, psychologists and information systems professionals
* managers, supervisors and those employed in a confidential capacity
* licensed land agents
* instructors or counsellors at a non-profit educational or recreational camp
* extras in a film or video production
* employees covered by other Acts (academic staff)
* municipal police officers