The UFO Conspiracy

[CUG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Rl6hC2ZFw

t8Rl6hC2ZFw

It explains how it was common knowledge that UFO's existed, and how the government systematically dismantled the thinking.

ZenOps, come on with it.

[BigMass]

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sdf_vs-6obo

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by CUG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Rl6hC2ZFw

t8Rl6hC2ZFw

It explains how it was common knowledge that UFO's existed, and how the government systematically dismantled the thinking.

ZenOps, come on with it.

What are you doing at a computer, its a beautiful day outside.

That said, I'm not a huge UFO believer or disbeliever. I'm more Moon landing hoax, Cthulhu worshipper and modern suicide ninja tracker.

[CUG]

Originally posted by ZenOps


What are you doing at a computer, its a beautiful day outside.
. You know, I just realized that when I took my garbage out. Then I went and played my drums for a bit, and then played battlefield. You're right, I'm going outside.

[slinkie]

illuminati

reptilians

[Spoons]

To be honest I don't care for the conspiracies, but you have to be a pretty ignorant not to believe that there is life elsewhere.

Whether they have been here or not, I could care less.

[revelations]

"I can assure you that, given they exist, these flying saucers are made by no power on this Earth."

-President Harry S. Truman, 4 April 1950, at a press conference.


"I certainly believe in aliens in space, and that they are indeed visiting our planet. They may not look like us, but I have very strong feelings that they have advanced beyond our mental capabilities."

-Senator Barry Goldwater (1965)


"I'm not at liberty to discuss the governments knowledge of extraterrestrial UFO's at this time. I am still personally being briefed on the subject!"

-President Richard M. Nixon


It was the darndest thing I've ever seen. It was big, it was very bright, it changed colors and it was about the size of the Moon. We watched it for ten minutes, but none of us could figure out what it was. One thing's for sure, I'll never make fun of people who say they've seen unidentified objects in the sky.

-President Jimmy Carter


"I looked out the window and saw this white light.It was zigzagging around. I went up to the pilot and said,Have you ever seen anything like that? He was shocked and he said, "Nope." And I said to him: "Let's follow it!" We followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light.We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter amazement it went straight up into the heavens. When I got off the plane I told Nancy all about it."

-President Ronald Reagen (Describing his 1974 UFO encounter to veteran newsman Norman C. Miller, then Washington bureau chief for the Wall Street Journal.)


"The phenomenon of UFOs does exist, and it must be treated seriously."

-Mikhail Gorbachev

[Vanner]

Ah, that ol' UFO conspiracy thing? It's so old news already (for me). Come on, you people still at it? :rolleyes: Let me pose a question to you:

Has the percent of UFO sightings increased in the last decade since? Then compare to the previous decades - you'd be surprised.

Seriously, if you go back to the 1947 UFO sighting - the infamous Roswell story (everyone by now know that LOL). Before that time point, not much percent of sightings had been recorded ... but then after 1947, the sightings had spiked. Why is that?

Go ahead wear your foil hats - maybe that will calm you? ;)

[slinkie]

Originally posted by Vanner
Ah, that ol' UFO conspiracy thing? It's so old news already (for me). Come on, you people still at it? :rolleyes: Let me pose a question to you:

Has the percent of UFO sightings increased in the last decade since? Then compare to the previous decades - you'd be surprised.

Seriously, if you go back to the 1947 UFO sighting - the infamous Roswell story (everyone by now know that LOL). Before that time point, not much percent of sightings had been recorded ... but then after 1947, the sightings had spiked. Why is that?

Go ahead wear your foil hats - maybe that will calm you? ;)

take many light year to reach earth

and now the here

reptilians

illuminati

[TKRIS]

The Demon Haunted World.

Read it.

[ZenOps]

Reptilians. Now theres a conspiracy that has a little bit of steam.

It was rumored that a few nations were way ahead of the US when it came to gene therapy, back before anyone even really knew what DNA was.

They were irradicating bone marrow and replacing it with new marrow quite a while ago, and then someone thought of the idea of immortality and spliced in some gecko stem genes (you know, the lizards that can grow back entire limbs) and then put it into the spinal cord of a human.

Sort of like how your tomatoes now contain fish genes.

Which is probably why the Pope has done an ban on human genetic testing of this type.

I give it a small but plausible...

Chuthulu may be nothing more than a human spliced with cuttlefish, to achieve immortalit... Ooops, that is way out there.

It would however, explain a billion chicken egg recall. Lizards are very sensitive and picky about the taste of eggs, Dun dun Duhhh...

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by Vanner
Ah, that ol' UFO conspiracy thing? It's so old news already (for me). Come on, you people still at it? :rolleyes: Let me pose a question to you:

Has the percent of UFO sightings increased in the last decade since? Then compare to the previous decades - you'd be surprised.

Seriously, if you go back to the 1947 UFO sighting - the infamous Roswell story (everyone by now know that LOL). Before that time point, not much percent of sightings had been recorded ... but then after 1947, the sightings had spiked. Why is that?

Go ahead wear your foil hats - maybe that will calm you? ;)

Alien SAR missions? :dunno:

[slinkie]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Reptilians. Now theres a conspiracy that has a little bit of steam.

It was rumored that a few nations were way ahead of the US when it came to gene therapy, back before anyone even really knew what DNA was.

They were irradicating bone marrow and replacing it with new marrow quite a while ago, and then someone thought of the idea of immortality and spliced in some gecko stem genes (you know, the lizards that can grow back entire limbs) and then put it into the spinal cord of a human.

Sort of like how your tomatoes now contain fish genes.

Which is probably why the Pope has done an ban on human genetic testing of this type.

I give it a small but plausible...

Chuthulu may be nothing more than a human spliced with cuttlefish, to achieve immortalit... Ooops, that is way out there.

It would however, explain a billion chicken egg recall. Lizards are very sensitive and picky about the taste of eggs, Dun dun Duhhh...

2012

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by Vanner
Ah, that ol' UFO conspiracy thing? It's so old news already (for me). Come on, you people still at it? :rolleyes: Let me pose a question to you:

Has the percent of UFO sightings increased in the last decade since? Then compare to the previous decades - you'd be surprised.

Seriously, if you go back to the 1947 UFO sighting - the infamous Roswell story (everyone by now know that LOL). Before that time point, not much percent of sightings had been recorded ... but then after 1947, the sightings had spiked. Why is that?

Go ahead wear your foil hats - maybe that will calm you? ;)

Personally I believe that there is life elsewhere in the universe and that some of these beings/crafts have visited us. Now I'll agree the the ufo phenomena is plagued with alot of BS, and most the time these stories are so ridiculous you can tell some people are trying to weave a good story to make a quick buck. I think that extraordinary claims require extraordinarily evidence, and there hasnt really been any groundbreaking evidence that would substantiate the existence of extra terrestrials.

When I say I believe in alien visitation I dont mean that they have abducted people, performed sexual experiments or made secret deals with our government. I dont know what crashed in roswell, but I think there are far more important cases within the last ~60 years which point to alien visitation.

Alot of the saucer sightings following the second world war may have been man made. I know that evidence based on the human perception is the weakest evidence of all in the scientific realm but how can you explain the many ufo sitings made during the second world war by aviators from all countries? I dont think we had anything like what some of these pilots described in the 1940's. I dont believe in majestic 12, I dont believe in alot of these people with insider information but having looked into some of the more popular cases of the 20th century I cant deny that some of these cases make for a pretty compelling argument of a real physical phenomenon.

Here's some other popular ufo cases besides roswell.
rendlesham forest
kecksburg
shag harbour
washington dc ufo incident



Originally posted by TKRIS
The Demon Haunted World.

Read it.

I have read it and I think carl sagen makes a great case for why some of these phenomena are made up, or are rooted in mythology. As a scientist however I think carl has to be dismissive of some of these things as there is no evidence in the public domain for the existence of these phenomena but none the less I think that some of these phenomena exist, but have not yet been understood.

I will say that I have seen several ufo's in the last 20 years or so. Im not claiming that they were of alien origin, but I have seen enough planes, helicopters, satellites to know when im looking at one.

Here's a brief coles notes of a few of these events, not that people give a hoot.

1) ~15 years ago. I was going on a trip to banff with some friends. Looking out the window there were 2 bright orbs, they zigzagged across the sky like nothing ive ever seen before.

2) ~10 years ago. I was taking my dog out for a walk and I saw a large purple circular light headed down, it looked like it was going to crash and was going down fast. It wasnt fireworks, it wasnt a comet or a meteor.

I might get flacked for saying some of this stuff, but im just saying what I saw.

[revelations]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi

Here's some other popular ufo cases besides roswell.
rendlesham forest
kecksburg
shag harbour
washington dc ufo incident


Shag Harbour is one of the few officially documented (by the Canadian Government) "unknown flying object" sightings in Canada.

[kertejud2]

Pretty lucky that aliens have managed to find us. Given just how expansive space is and how long they would have been looking its a shame they haven't tried to make their presence a little more known. Sure we'd be considered primitive to them, but surely they'd be able to see some form of intelligence since we're also launching things into space, albeit rather aimlessly.

What a bunch of assholes.

[mushi_mushi]

I wouldnt get too bogged down with the distances involved with interstellar flight. A few hundred years ago making a journey to the other side of the globe almost seemed impossible and look at where we are today. I dont think these crafts operate at the speed of light and travel in a linear fashion from a to b.

I think what the government realized after several of these incidents occurred after the end of ww2 is that the fear and histaria of an alien presence was far more damaging than any external threat posed by these crafts.

I dont believe in disclosure. If life from elsewhere has visited earth I cant see any good coming from disclosing that information.

The lines between science and science fiction are constantly being blurred. Our understanding of science is far from complete, even though some of these feats may border on the realm of impossibility im sure given thousands or milliions of years we may achieve what today may seem impossible.

We can barley predict what the world is going to look like in 10 years from now so I wont make any bold and stupid predictions as to when we might be driving our own ufo, while banging some exotic green alien captain kirk style.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi
I wouldnt get too bogged down with the distances involved with interstellar flight. A few hundred years ago making a journey to the other side of the globe almost seemed impossible and look at where we are today. I dont think these crafts operate at the speed of light and travel in a linear fashion from a to b.


The speed isn't the issue, finding planet X in this wide, expansive universe is. The only reason to come to Earth would be for the sign of intelligent life. The only way to see intelligent life would be by going planet to planet, sun to sun, galaxy to galaxy checking every single one. Even if you ignore the time it would take to get to each one the amount of time checking each one would be astronomical (excuse the pun).

And if you went through all that trouble to find any signs of life, you would certainly say 'hello'. We've been launching satellites and probes all over the place and have been shooting a message into space with a code hoping even something, somewhere might be able to make sense out of it, but if we solved the problem of interstellar travel we would all of a sudden keep quiet and take solace in the fact the messages we sent out wont make it anywhere for hundreds, thousands and millions of years?

http://tontonbruno.free.fr/etrange/Chilbolton%20Code%20Analysis_fichiers/Chilbolton.interp.jpg

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Vanner

Has the percent of UFO sightings increased in the last decade since? Then compare to the previous decades - you'd be surprised.
Before that time point, not much percent of sightings had been recorded ... but then after 1947, the sightings had spiked. Why is that?


Not going to support or disagree with the existence of alien UFO's, but if they were to visit I'd assume WW2 and the subsequent tech advances would give any visitors interested in us more reason to visit more often. The world changes more now in a year than it used to in hundreds.

Apparently you have looked up the numbers, care to share?

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by kertejud2


The speed isn't the issue, finding planet X in this wide, expansive universe is. The only reason to come to Earth would be for the sign of intelligent life. The only way to see intelligent life would be by going planet to planet, sun to sun, galaxy to galaxy checking every single one. Even if you ignore the time it would take to get to each one the amount of time checking each one would be astronomical (excuse the pun).


That is a good point but who knows how many intelligent civilizations there may be. One of the ways you could explore the universe is to build a robot, program it to set down on a moon/planet, build a factory, build other robots and send them out to new planets and repeat the process.( I think this is from an asimov book)


Originally posted by kertejud2


And if you went through all that trouble to find any signs of life, you would certainly say 'hello'. We've been launching satellites and probes all over the place and have been shooting a message into space with a code hoping even something, somewhere might be able to make sense out of it, but if we solved the problem of interstellar travel we would all of a sudden keep quiet and take solace in the fact the messages we sent out wont make it anywhere for hundreds, thousands and millions of years?


I dont think sending a greeting message into space was a wise idea to begin with. We got to where we are today in-part because we pillaged other weaker lifeforms. Im sure that the aliens that find us may not want to eat us but look what happens to the native americans when the europeans found this continent. Being alien, we dont really have anything to compare them to, who know what their intentions might be. Admitting the existence of alien life might have profound implications for our economies, religions and otherwise affect our lives negatively in very profound ways. I dont think we are ready for anything resembling contact, we can barely solve the problems on this planet or get along with people who live here.

[ZenOps]

You mean that space probe?

It will probably never reach another system. As Hawking stipulates - the universe is constantly expanding, we are like raisins in a cookie that is in the oven.

Light from many other stars is actually red-shifted. Meaning that a probe would probably have to be accelerating to maybe 1/10th the speed of light to have a decent chance.

That probe is like a spitball out of straw, when you are trying to hit a truck that is moving away from you at 100 km/hour. Its just not happening.

If there happens to be life that is randomly searching through open space, then there is a chance.

[Kavy]

http://rightvoices.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/tinfoil-hat.jpg

[revelations]

Originally posted by Kavy
http://rightvoices.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/tinfoil-hat.jpg

nice.... :rolleyes:

[arian_ma]

I just can't see the logic behind aliens flying many light years to get here through space at ridiculous speeds, and then crashing on Earth.

Why would they come here in the first place?

[RecoilS14]

On my iPhone while traveling down the highway (not driving obviously) so I don't wanna go thru the effort of finding a link, BUT! The U.N. Has just appointed some scientist as the official ambassador to "any" extraterrestrial life that "may" visit our planet.

Something fishy goin on....

[SneakyNeek]

From what Ive seen on UFO hunters (I have no idea if this show is a gimmick or not) there have been sightings where they have took samples from are soil and trees. What i think is they may be testing are planet for the following reasons:

1 - they have exhausted there resources and are looking to use another planets
2- sort of the same as 1 but are looking for a suitable planet to relocate to.

Maybe the reason the "aliens" are trying to keep a low profile is because if they are wanting something from are planet they don't want us knowing about it.


As well from all the carvings of rocket ships and wierd looking dudes in the rocks from the Egyptian times indicated they have already been here a hell of a long time ago, and know that are planet exists already and knows what it offers..



I dunno, I may be just spewing crap.

[Toma]

Oh gawd...

Believing in UFO's and that they are in fact alien (and not man made top secret, or experiments etc), is like believing in God...

Takes a tremendous leap of faith, but has no basis in fact or reality.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Toma
Oh gawd...

Believing in UFO's and that they are in fact alien (and not man made top secret, or experiments etc), is like believing in God...

Takes a tremendous leap of faith, but has no basis in fact or reality. :werd:

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by SneakyNeek
From what Ive seen on UFO hunters (I have no idea if this show is a gimmick or not) there have been sightings where they have took samples from are soil and trees. What i think is they may be testing are planet for the following reasons:

1 - they have exhausted there resources and are looking to use another planets
2- sort of the same as 1 but are looking for a suitable planet to relocate to.

Maybe the reason the "aliens" are trying to keep a low profile is because if they are wanting something from are planet they don't want us knowing about it.


As well from all the carvings of rocket ships and wierd looking dudes in the rocks from the Egyptian times indicated they have already been here a hell of a long time ago, and know that are planet exists already and knows what it offers..



I dunno, I may be just spewing crap.


:facepalm: Atrocious grammar. How can you mistakenly use "are" for "our" twice!? Plus, it's "their", not "there".


Anyways. I have a hard time believing any othe UFO stories, it's funny that they are all reported by whack-jobs. But I think it is naive to think we're the only life forms in the universe.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Toma
Oh gawd...

Believing in UFO's and that they are in fact alien (and not man made top secret, or experiments etc), is like believing in God...

Takes a tremendous leap of faith, but has no basis in fact or reality.

:thumbsup:

Unidentified
Flying
Object

That does not mean alien spacecraft. Yeap, lots of UFO sightings since WWII... oh yeah, also lots of major advances and R&D into man made aircraft too. Hmm, who would think that a new jet wouldn't look like a Spitfire, Mustang, or DC-8

It's entirely possible aliens have found us, and have visited us, but unless you know it for fact (ie you saw them with your very own eyes), it's all speculation, just like every theory out there.

[911fever]

Originally posted by Toma
Oh gawd...

Believing in UFO's and that they are in fact alien (and not man made top secret, or experiments etc), is like believing in God...

Takes a tremendous leap of faith, but has no basis in fact or reality.

but not believing in God is taking a leap of faith that we were created out of nothing, through a "big bang". Either way, if you're an atheist, you're believing that we are just on the earth to live, have fun, and die (no purpose) and that we came out of nothing, or if you're a believer in God, you believe that this life on earth is temporary and short, and that we were put on the earth for a purpose, and we will have a future life not on the earth, and that we were created by a Creator.
Personally I'd rather take my chances on something that's been historically proven (The Bible - Dead Sea Scrolls [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls]). Very interesting reading all about the Dead Sea Scrolls.

But back to the OP's thoughts, I think Shag Harbor is a very interesting scenario. Do I believe UFO's exist? No, but I believe the government has hidden some sensitive information about weapon testing/military testing.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by 911fever


Personally I'd rather take my chances on something that's been historically proven

Religion is historically proven, NOT an almighty creator. :drama: :hijack:

[mushi_mushi]

If an advanced life form ever decided to come to earth I dont think they would be here for our natural resources. I think we are even capable of doing spectrum analysis to determine the composition of a planet. Why come to earth and destroy a civilization when im sure there alot more abundant planets to mine which are closer to home.

If aliens are watching who knows what their fascination with us is. Look at humans, people are interested in everything you can think of. Some people study birds, others insects, people study organisms that were alive, other biologists study things that are alive. There are people who study the culture and history of ancient civilizations, I think there are plenty of reasons why someone might want to observe us, but these reasons arnt always obvious nor do they have to make sense to us.

I have never seen aliens. Ive seen ufo's, I think that we probably have some special projects/aircrafts which are capable of ridiculous speeds. Part of the reason I lean towards an alien presence is because these sightings go far back, back to a time when im sure we didnt have anything like this. Many ufo's were seen during ww2 by pilots from different countries. If these were british/russian/us planes why didnt they shoot down enemy planes.

There have also been instances in history where these objects have invaded us airspace and have been fired upon. If they were ours im not sure it would make sense to fire at your own craft.

Prior to the 1940's im sure there were many sighting too but they weren't taken seriously. It wasnt like today when everyone has a camera in their cell phone. Back then you just had to take someones word for it.

Besides the flying orbs there have been instances where people have seen huge motherships the size of a football field. Im referring to instances like the phoenix lights, some people say that they were flares but the folks that were there said they were staring at a solid object and not a series of individual lights.

I discount alot of abduction experiences as fabrications or mental illness but there are lots of cases out there that stick out and actually point to something real occurring. I do think believing in this stuff does require a leap of faith, there's alot of stigma in the science community around these types of subjects, anyone who believes in aliens is dubbed a crazy person.

[CHICHARITZHI]

I'm not white but I'm legal alien here in canada..

[Vanner]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi

Now I'll agree the the ufo phenomena is plagued with alot of BS, and most the time these stories are so ridiculous you can tell some people are trying to weave a good story to make a quick buck. I think that extraordinary claims require extraordinarily evidence, and there hasnt really been any groundbreaking evidence that would substantiate the existence of extra terrestrials.


Alot of the saucer sightings following the second world war may have been man made. I know that evidence based on the human perception is the weakest evidence of all in the scientific realm but how can you explain the many ufo sitings made during the second world war by aviators from all countries? I dont think we had anything like what some of these pilots described in the 1940's.


Out of all so-called "ufo" sightings in the last 60 years since to now - I would say at least 99% are fake and ONE percent may or may not be real but still unprovable and without human hands involved. I'm being generous in giving the 1% because there's so much BS going in the "ufo" mess.

During the WW2 era - aviators had seen some of that sightings that can't be explained. Well, keep in mind... we're talking about the 1940's era and that period was the high point of air flight. So many countries had begin to biuld better aircrafts with faster speeds. Many aviators weren't used with higher speeds yet. They were literally knocking on super-sonic speeds which their aircrafts were not made for that! So... I'll admit maybe very few sightings were unexplainable by aviators, but all of them? No, I don't buy that.



Originally posted by mushi_mushi

I think what the government realized after several of these incidents occurred after the end of ww2 is that the fear and histaria of an alien presence was far more damaging than any external threat posed by these crafts.

The lines between science and science fiction are constantly being blurred.

We can barley predict what the world is going to look like in 10 years from now so I wont make any bold and stupid predictions as to when we might be driving our own ufo, while banging some exotic green alien captain kirk style.

Exactly. I truly believe many governments ARE hoarding many secrets what we citizens don't know were really going on. Come on, we all knew the U.S. bigwigs have their "black" budget for such these high-tech, top-classified pet projects. Russia, Canada, UK, China and many more have the same thing in their own style.

Yes, our technology are catching up what the sci-fic flicks had shown us years ago. A lot of cool gizmos we as kids had seen in movies... some creative inventors wanting to have that in real life had made these become possible. So, the lines between the two points are becoming blurred faster.



Originally posted by Hakkola


Not going to support or disagree with the existence of alien UFO's, but if they were to visit I'd assume WW2 and the subsequent tech advances would give any visitors interested in us more reason to visit more often. The world changes more now in a year than it used to in hundreds.

Apparently you have looked up the numbers, care to share?

Well, I did wrote in a notebook based from my 10 years of research on ufo cases many years ago - in 1980s in fact. After I had gathered many books and info and put in summeries and compare each other. Once I saw the "numbers" that was when I realize almost all of the cases were fake. I threw out the notebook and call it case closed!

Now, the Roswell case? We knew something had crashed there. But if you'll stop for a moment and think about that. How was it possible the U.S. military got to the crash scene so fast? That's why I noticed that something is funny of that part in this case. I suspected the "craft" crashed may be their own new type of aircraft.

I did found one interesting case in the WW2 - at the very end of war in 1945 - in the Nazi Germany while bombed so much. The U.S. had assigned one troop to go get something in the east side of Berlin somewhere in the country. Their mission was never explained - only that they were said to gather some Intel to take with. The Soviets were also on the same thing! The U.S. decided to cover up by ordered the bombers to destroy the area as soon as the troop get what they were assigned. I think the Germans may had something that got the U.S. government's eyes.

I believed that is what led up to the 1947 event. It was close to the U.S. base at the time. The U.S. military - see? I can't prove that but it seem too much of a convenience - no?

Anyway, we all have one life to live - so why worry so much over the silly aliens?

[jazzyb]

as humans are zoologists and botanists to lesser life on earth, maybe aliens are the same for humans? studying as without interference? for academic purposes

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi
If an advanced life form ever decided to come to earth I dont think they would be here for our natural resources.

Of course they would, the would be here to harvest the best natural resource there is - food.

All carbon based life on earth is based on consumption and reproduction. All things eat and have sex (although some simple organisms have sex with themselves)

Every single lifeform that is known to us does this. It would be folly to assume other life does not do the exact same.

*IF* there were aliens, I'd probably be on the assumption that it would just as soon speak intelligently to humanity, as swallow the earth in the blink of an eye - like a shelled pea. Or have sex with the earth :clap:

And to add, Rob Anders is a simple organism.

[ZenOps]

BTW: If it was this UFO you are thinking of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9jJRzcp-7U

That was just a French SLBM M51, similar to the one they launched in French Guyana a few years earlier.

It was picked up by infrared satellites by China, but I don't think the North American defense grid picked it up (its got a ray scattering head, the newest in tech.) The only reason China can see it, is because its on the horizon. EG: Its also much easier for most North american satellites to detect launches that they are not directly above or underneath.

Which is kind of a bummer, because the area you are trying to protect is usually right underneath what is being shot at.

It also has a max speed of Mach 15, and would be impossible for any Mach 2 fighter aircraft to shoot down.

As to why the French would want to cluster nuke Newfieland? Well.... Why not I guess.

[CHICHARITZHI]

interesting video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S5ZUMEXAJ8&feature=related

[v2kai]

bump from the dead.

Well known events, but includes some new difficult to refute evidence and reputable eye witness accounts.


I'd give my left nut to witness what some of these people have seen.

1QRqL09raIQ#!

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by 911fever


but not believing in God is taking a leap of faith that we were created out of nothing, through a "big bang".


You make the same assumption that God was created out of nothing, or did he create himself?

[Feruk]

Originally posted by kdwebber
You make the same assumption that God was created out of nothing, or did he create himself?
No way, he just existed. Duh! To believe that we "just existed" is blasphemy, but for God it's obvious that he always "just existed"! :nut:

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi


That is a good point but who knows how many intelligent civilizations there may be.

Required reading:
---------------------
Drake equation
Fermi paradox
Poul Anderson’s Answer to Fermi
http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/who_speaks_for_earth/

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by TKRIS
The Demon Haunted World.

Read it.

^This x 10.

BTW-There's a theory that so called,"Probed alien abductees", are actually sexual assault victims. Think about it.

xz7sBTHtcLU

[mushi_mushi]

^^^

Im a huge KITH fan so Im loving the reference. Some of you made excellent points. I have read The Demon Haunted World (never finished it though) and I disagree with some of what Sagan said. I'll post a more detailed reply later when I have more time.

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by LollerBrader


Required reading:
---------------------
Drake equation
Fermi paradox
Poul Anderson’s Answer to Fermi
http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/who_speaks_for_earth/

The drake equation is just an estimation as to how many planets could possibly have some form of intelligent life. New information is constantly pointing to the fact that our planet is not as rare as we originally thought.

As for where are they or why havnt we seen them. There are many possible answers to that but I dont think it would be accurate to say someone has a solution to the fermi paradox, all we have at this point are hypotheses.

Some possibilities of why we have seen an alien presence are discussed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox under the
Explaining the paradox theoretical section.

I can understand Sagan's skeptisim when it comes to things like UFOs. Science is based on conclusions derived from evidence and experimentation. Currently there is no physical proof that has been verified by anyone in the scientific community. All we have with the ufo phenomena is people who have observed something unexplained. In science observation carries the lowest weight in as a form of evidence.

I for one believe we have been visited. As for why I could believe such a stupid thing. I have seen ufo's, keep in mind im not claiming they what I saw was alien, but it sure as hell wasnt a plane, helicopter or natural phenomena. Like some of you have mentioned, the US has a defence budget that exceeds the defence budgets of the other top 13 countries. Im sure now days there have been huge technical leaps in technology that have lead to crafts we can only dream of.

These technologies however were not available 70 years ago. During the second world war many pilots from both sides witnessed bright luminous orbs that performed aerial manoeuvres that still cant be done today. So for me there are two possible explanations, we had this technology in the 40's or these vehicles are someone else's.

The allies (US and Russians) did capture key German scientists after the war and brought them over to work for them. However I doubt the German's had anything capable of what was being reported.

Sagan also talked about Roswell, and explained how it would be unlikely that these advanced beings would travel millions of miles only to crash on our front lawn. I dont agree with this idea, because no matter how intelligent you are, there is always an element of error.

We are intelligent enough to send rockets to the moon, to fly planes from one contenant to another, but each one of these tasks is reliant upon many pieces of machinery working together, even if one little thing goes wrong it could spell disaster. We do have safety measures in place to prevent these things from happening but planes still crash, rockets still explode. As our technological feats grow bigger and bigger the margin for error grows smaller and smaller. There is always the possibility of human error, so no matter how intelligent aliens may be they would still be prone to making mistakes.

I dont know what crashed at roswell. I think 99% of ufo cases can be explained or are utter bullshit, but the remaining 1-2% are very interesting. Most people that claim to know anything probably dont. There are a lot of people who have profited in one way or another from the ufo craze. So people write science fiction and pass it off as science fact because it sells and makes money.

I realize Sagan couldnt talk about every single ufo case but there many interesting cases out there, many of them with physical evidence, the problem is no one has looked at these cases.

Some of the ones I find interesting are:

- Washington DC Ufo's over the white house 1957
- Los Angeles ufo 1942
- Rendlesham forest 1980
- Kecksburg 1965

I'll follow up this post with my thoughts on alien abduction and facts that work against the alien hypotheses.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi


The drake equation is just an estimation as to how many planets could possibly have some form of intelligent life. New information is constantly pointing to the fact that our planet is not as rare as we originally thought.

As for where are they or why havnt we seen them. There are many possible answers to that but I dont think it would be accurate to say someone has a solution to the fermi paradox, all we have at this point are hypotheses.

Some possibilities of why we have seen an alien presence are discussed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox under the
Explaining the paradox theoretical section.

I can understand Sagan's skeptisim when it comes to things like UFOs. Science is based on conclusions derived from evidence and experimentation. Currently there is no physical proof that has been verified by anyone in the scientific community. All we have with the ufo phenomena is people who have observed something unexplained. In science observation carries the lowest weight in as a form of evidence.

I for one believe we have been visited. As for why I could believe such a stupid thing. I have seen ufo's, keep in mind im not claiming they what I saw was alien, but it sure as hell wasnt a plane, helicopter or natural phenomena. Like some of you have mentioned, the US has a defence budget that exceeds the defence budgets of the other top 13 countries. Im sure now days there have been huge technical leaps in technology that have lead to crafts we can only dream of.

These technologies however were not available 70 years ago. During the second world war many pilots from both sides witnessed bright luminous orbs that performed aerial manoeuvres that still cant be done today. So for me there are two possible explanations, we had this technology in the 40's or these vehicles are someone else's.

The allies (US and Russians) did capture key German scientists after the war and brought them over to work for them. However I doubt the German's had anything capable of what was being reported.

Sagan also talked about Roswell, and explained how it would be unlikely that these advanced beings would travel millions of miles only to crash on our front lawn. I dont agree with this idea, because no matter how intelligent you are, there is always an element of error.

We are intelligent enough to send rockets to the moon, to fly planes from one contenant to another, but each one of these tasks is reliant upon many pieces of machinery working together, even if one little thing goes wrong it could spell disaster. We do have safety measures in place to prevent these things from happening but planes still crash, rockets still explode. As our technological feats grow bigger and bigger the margin for error grows smaller and smaller. There is always the possibility of human error, so no matter how intelligent aliens may be they would still be prone to making mistakes.

I dont know what crashed at roswell. I think 99% of ufo cases can be explained or are utter bullshit, but the remaining 1-2% are very interesting. Most people that claim to know anything probably dont. There are a lot of people who have profited in one way or another from the ufo craze. So people write science fiction and pass it off as science fact because it sells and makes money.

I realize Sagan couldnt talk about every single ufo case but there many interesting cases out there, many of them with physical evidence, the problem is no one has looked at these cases.

Some of the ones I find interesting are:

- Washington DC Ufo's over the white house 1957
- Los Angeles ufo 1942
- Rendlesham forest 1980
- Kecksburg 1965

I'll follow up this post with my thoughts on alien abduction and facts that work against the alien hypotheses. v

Sagan wants empirical evidence,.

I'm cutting down a tree in my backyard, but a Robin came and made french toast.,

Interesting....aliens have the ability to travel interstellar space, but they can't avoid crash landing on earth.

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by Seth1968
v

Sagan wants empirical evidence,.

I'm cutting down a tree in my backyard, but a Robin came and made french toast.,



I can understand the need for empirical evidence but I think the level of proof that some people expect is unrealistic. I agree with Sagan that the bigger the statement, so should be the level of proof.

There are several problems with this. How would we distinguish an alien artifact from our own? It would be alien to us, we have no frame of reference. There is physical evidence associated with the ufo phenomena, these objects show up on radar, there are landing marks associated with a physical object, high radiation levels etc. Im not saying that all of these point to alien visitation, but these things don't get investigated. If there are aliens who have visited earth, but havnt left anything behind, how would you validate their existence?

Short of a space craft landing with alien occupants what kind what kind of physical proof would you need to validate such a major statement?

I will admit as far as an arguments go the argument based on empirical evidence is pretty weak here. Its kind of like Richard Dawkins and god, "how do we know there isnt an imaginary tea pot orbiting mars"



Interesting....aliens have the ability to travel interstellar space, but they can't avoid crash landing on earth.


Like I said we have the ability to send man to the moon, our rockets sometimes explode, planes crash etc. Each of these things deals with something that has a high degree of complexity and small margin for error. Im not say whatever crashed at roswell was alien, I just dont agree with the premise of the argument that just because aliens may possess a higher degree of intelligence that they would be impervious to making mistakes.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[projekz]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Do I believe there is life elsewhere than Earth? With the size of the universe, it is pretty much undeniable.

Do I think they travelled all this way to Earth to do stunts in the sky and make circles in our crops? Um, yeah... no.

I don't believe we have been visited, nor do I expect such a thing to occur anytime soon if at all before our species has wiped itself out.



It is the TV signals, they start tuning in and get distracted while piloting...

Distracted driving...you'd think if they can make it here they'd have bluetooth or something :rofl:

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi


Im not say whatever crashed at roswell was alien,



I'm doing everything I can to resist the temptation.

[nismodrifter]

Originally posted by LollerBrader



I'm doing everything I can to resist the temptation.

sorry my friend, it has to be done...
http://sheamacleod.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/im-not-saying-it-was-aliens-but-it-was-aliens.jpg

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by nismodrifter


sorry my friend, it has to be done...


No worries - Thanks for getting me off of the hook.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by kdwebber
You make the same assumption that God was created out of nothing, or did he create himself?
Originally posted by Feruk
No way, he just existed. Duh! To believe that we "just existed" is blasphemy, but for God it's obvious that he always "just existed"! :nut:
Man created god.

[revelations]

Originally posted by v2kai
bump from the dead.

Well known events, but includes some new difficult to refute evidence and reputable eye witness accounts.


I'd give my left nut to witness what some of these people have seen.

1QRqL09raIQ#!

Thats gotta be one of the best FACTUAL videos out there. Take away the 95% and just focus on the 5% that is REALLY well documented by professionals.

I dont know if witnessing these things would do anything for me, except raise more questions?

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by nismodrifter

sorry my friend, it has to be done...


Im surprised we made it this far without that pic, and I somehow managed to blindly walk right into it :)

[Supa Dexta]

Imagine if we are the only planet capable of life... whoa.

Quite a mess we're making of it.

[J-hop]

This thread is getting pretty close to a face palm. There is zero concrete evidence out there to suggest ETs have ever visited earth and if they ever have then the chances of them doing donuts across the sky with flashing colored lights on display for every nut job in the area to see is pretty damn unlikely.

Why does everyone assume alien ships are going to have bright flashy landing lights?? What the hell would it need them for? That's an earth constraint...

[v2kai]

Originally posted by J-hop
This thread is getting pretty close to a face palm. There is zero concrete evidence out there to suggest ETs have ever visited earth and if they ever have then the chances of them doing donuts across the sky with flashing colored lights on display for every nut job in the area to see is pretty damn unlikely.

Why does everyone assume alien ships are going to have bright flashy landing lights?? What the hell would it need them for? That's an earth constraint...

Why do you assume they wouldnt have 'flashy lights'?:dunno: Who's to say they would or wouldnt? Assuming extra terrestrial life has the technology and capability to traverse vast quantities of space and time to visit our planet and outmaneuver our best technological efforts to keep pace, using methods which would essentially appear as magic to us given our current level of understanding of the physics of the known universe, on what basis do you feel you are an authority on the topic to question as to why a craft would or would not have external lights?

I dont think anyone assumes or is adamant that ET craft MUST have flashy landing lights and do donuts in the sky, but the large majority of observed unexplained aerial phenomena does involve lights; be it ET or terrestrial in origin.

Almost all manmade forms of transportation on earth seem to have lights of some shape or form for guidance or identification or for many other reasons. You dont think it gets dark anywhere else but earth or that another form of intelligent life might not benefit from having external lights on their crafts as well?

You are correct there is no publicly known concrete evidence of ET visitation, but there certainly are a lot of unexplained phenomena and very intriguing cases throughout history and across the globe that without a doubt indicate something has happened and we have no clue what it is. If you take the time to research the truly intriguing and substantial cases (quite a few of which were reviewed in that youtube video) you quickly see that not all unexplained aerial phenomena are so easy to dismiss. I'm betting you didnt even watch it.

At the rate science and our understanding of the vastness of the universe and probability that ET life exists is growing, the likelihood that there may be a connection to these unexplained cases becomes more and more plausible.

Do you turn off your headlights and run stealth mode when you drive in the forest so the crazy squirrels and bunnies dont see you doing donuts?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by v2kai


Why do you assume they wouldnt have 'flashy lights'?:dunno: Who's to say they would or wouldnt? Assuming extra terrestrial life has the technology and capability to traverse vast quantities of space and time to visit our planet and outmaneuver our best technological efforts to keep pace, using methods which would essentially appear as magic to us given our current level of understanding of the physics of the known universe, on what basis do you feel you are an authority on the topic to question as to why a craft would or would not have external lights?

I dont think anyone assumes or is adamant that ET craft MUST have flashy landing lights and do donuts in the sky, but the large majority of observed unexplained aerial phenomena does involve lights; be it ET or terrestrial in origin.

Almost all manmade forms of transportation on earth seem to have lights of some shape or form for guidance or identification or for many other reasons. You dont think it gets dark anywhere else but earth or that another form of intelligent life might not benefit from having external lights on their crafts as well?

You are correct there is no publicly known concrete evidence of ET visitation, but there certainly are a lot of unexplained phenomena and very intriguing cases throughout history and across the globe that without a doubt indicate something has happened and we have no clue what it is. If you take the time to research the truly intriguing and substantial cases (quite a few of which were reviewed in that youtube video) you quickly see that not all unexplained aerial phenomena are so easy to dismiss. I'm betting you didnt even watch it.

At the rate science and our understanding of the vastness of the universe and probability that ET life exists is growing, the likelihood that there may be a connection to these unexplained cases becomes more and more plausible.

Do you turn off your headlights and run stealth mode when you drive in the forest so the crazy squirrels and bunnies dont see you doing donuts?

Either you went way out of your way to be sarcastic, or :facepalm:

[v2kai]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Either you went way out of your way to be sarcastic, or :facepalm:

No if I went out of my way to be sarcastic I'd be sure to use the sarcastic emoticon to make sure it was clear for you seth1986:rolleyes: ;)

[J-hop]

This thread just went full face palm.

Your example kinda made me laugh (headlights): aliens.... Capable of interstellar travel and/or warping time and space.... Need headlights to navigate earth's terrain :rofl:

Maybe they'll hit up a local shop and outfit their ships with HIDs for the trip home.

It's not that these "occurences" can't be explained its that people don't want to believe rational explanations and want to believe their fantasies have come true.

That's why these alien specialists come across as such wack jobs they arent able to separate fantasy and reality.

[revelations]

^ watch the video dude, its not the usual "whackjobs" youd think.

I'm a skeptic myself but there are some good questions raised in this clip.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by revelations
^ watch the video dude, its not the usual "whackjobs" youd think.

I'm a skeptic myself but there are some good questions raised in this clip.

I've watched some of it and it is pretty damn hilarious so far google rendlesham forest incident there are some pretty logical explanations for everything. one hilarious thing to point out is the fact there was a nearby lighthouse which would have cast it's light at the right level to look like a bright object hovering and an analysis of the voice recording showed approximately 5 seconds between appearances of the red object which exactly matches the rotational time of the lighthouse :rofl:

I will finish it tonight as it will make for a good bedtime story.

I honestly cant believe people think this has some validity.

[revelations]

Whats wrong with asking questions?

No one is claiming anything about green men. :dunno:

[v2kai]

Originally posted by J-hop


I've watched some of it and it is pretty damn hilarious so far google rendlesham forest incident there are some pretty logical explanations for everything. one hilarious thing to point out is the fact there was a nearby lighthouse which would have cast it's light at the right level to look like a bright object hovering and an analysis of the voice recording showed approximately 5 seconds between appearances of the red object which exactly matches the rotational time of the lighthouse :rofl:

I will finish it tonight as it will make for a good bedtime story.

I honestly cant believe people think this has some validity.

You have only skimmed the surface of googling the rendlesham incident or other incidents. If you continue to google it, the lighthouse explanation is one of the first attempts to debunk the whole incident and has been thoroughly explored and dis-proven based on relative location. When I find that video again I'll throw it up for you.

If you feel like sticking your head back in the sand and would prefer to take the lighthouse explanation rather than exploring the incident in its entirety, feel free. 5 second interval it MUST be a lighthouse beacon it could be no other!

I honestly cant believe you think you are well versed on a subject and can so easily dismiss something after 5 seconds of googling.

The reputable eye witness statements from multiple individuals with numerous cases still stands to be 'debunked'. There is no benefit for these individuals to come forward to receive public ridicule and risk their careers and yet they do.



Originally posted by J-hop
This thread just went full face palm.

Your example kinda made me laugh (headlights): aliens.... Capable of interstellar travel and/or warping time and space.... Need headlights to navigate earth's terrain :rofl:

Maybe they'll hit up a local shop and outfit their ships with HIDs for the trip home.


We are capable of interplanetary travel... our probes and crafts have headlights, or other guidance lights...

Perhaps these lights on the UFOs, if they are in fact ET in origin, are actually inherent to their propulsion system. You're very dismissive and dont really use critical thought much do you J-Hop?

and just to clarify for you before you go jumping to conclusions some more, I'm not claiming any of what was presented was definitive proof of ET visitation or even existence for that matter. But your stance of dismissal and rejection of the evidence of the very real events presented really leads you nowhere but to stick your head back in the sand.

[Seth1968]

[QUOTE]The reputable eye witness statements from multiple individuals with numerous cases still stands to be 'debunked'.
QUOTE]

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please define "reputable". In other words, eyewitness accounts mean NOTHING. Get it?

Anyway, I'm starting to be bothered to "debunk" your position in this regard. ..but understand this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

BTW: I WISH for an alien visit, but all I'm seeing is alien anal probes, washed up NASA employees, and ignorant hicks trying to get their 15 minutes of fame.

[v2kai]

Originally posted by Seth1968
[QUOTE]The reputable eye witness statements from multiple individuals with numerous cases still stands to be 'debunked'.
QUOTE]

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please define "reputable". In other words, eyewitness accounts mean NOTHING. Get it?

Anyway, I'm starting to be bothered to "debunk" your position in this regard. ..but understand this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

BTW: I WISH for an alien visit, but all I'm seeing is alien anal probes, washed up NASA employees, and ignorant hicks trying to get their 15 minutes of fame.

I wasnt saying it definitively proved anything Seth so unfortunately your excellent wiki quote is wasted. What I was saying is look a little closer and understand that there isnt a motive, or benefit for these individuals to come forward.

Why would so many reputable, and I say reputable as in formally trained persons, come forward with stories that could potentially cost them their careers? These are not ignorant hicks, nor homeless bums. They are military personnel, veteran pilots and airmen among others who are some of the most capable individuals to identify a craft in the sky. These are the people who you would deem an authority on the subject matter at hand, or in this case some of the most reputable eye witness accounts you could acquire. I'm not saying an eye witness statement is golden and rock solid evidence, but when you realize there is no 15 minutes of fame waiting for them, or financial benefit for these individuals to come forward what's the motive?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by v2kai


I wasnt saying it definitively proved anything Seth so unfortunately your excellent wiki quote is wasted. What I was saying is look a little closer and understand that there isnt a motive, or benefit for these individuals to come forward.

Why would so many reputable, and I say reputable as in formally trained persons, come forward with stories that could potentially cost them their careers? These are not ignorant hicks, nor homeless bums. They are military personnel, veteran pilots and airmen among others who are some of the most capable individuals to identify a craft in the sky. These are the people who you would deem an authority on the subject matter at hand, or in this case some of the most reputable eye witness accounts you could acquire. I'm not saying an eye witness statement is golden and rock solid evidence, but when you realize there is no 15 minutes of fame waiting for them, or financial benefit for these individuals to come forward what's the motive?

v2,

I explained motive in my previous post.

Anyway, you seem like someone that wishes for something "higher" than yourself (we ALL do). It may be "God", or "Aliens", but either way it's all good in that we strive for betterment.

[v2kai]

Originally posted by Seth1968


v2,

I explained motive in my previous post.

Anyway, you seem like someone that wishes for something "higher" than yourself (we ALL do). It may be "God", or "Aliens", but either way it's all good in that we strive for betterment.

I felt your explained motive wasnt supported well and essentially I was just restating that in the prior post; given that there are no real benefits which would justify a motive for coming forward weighed against potential consequences.

Anyway, I dont think I'm so much looking for someone or something higher than us but definitely wish for something better of myself (ourselves) and agree it is good we all strive for betterment. If anything I (all humans) are all trying to figure out the 'why are we here, and what's the point' and it's a damn interesting question.