Campus Pro Life is Back at it Again

[rob.cal]

Campus Pro Life...

The jokers are back at it again, with their posters of genocide, murder and their parallel with abortion. It's disgraceful, I absolutely support free speech, which is their basis of being here, but I walked by today and there was a lady with a baby straddled to her chest handing out pro life pamphlets. Advocacy for family planning is a better use of your time, as opposed to shock and awe campaigns. All you're going to do is offend people, and I honestly think this whole plight is to get media attention so the crazies can try and spread their propaganda. Tell me what you guys think, I'm really curious.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by rob.cal
Campus Pro Life...
I absolutely support free speech, which is their basis of being here, but...

There is no "but". End of story.

[rob.cal]

Yes, but freedom of speech only protects that which the community does not find as obscene, and these posters are undoubtedly obscene

[kevie88]

Originally posted by rob.cal
Yes, but freedom of speech only protects that which the community does not find as obscene, and these posters are undoubtedly obscene

Agreed.

"Get that shit out of my face" is my usual response when these jackasses try to give me their propaganda.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by rob.cal
Yes, but freedom of speech only protects that which the community does not find as obscene, and these posters are undoubtedly obscene
Actually, what the community or majority find obscene is precisely what freedom of speech protects. Such as neo-nazi rallies and shit like that.

[buh_buh]

they want the freedom to express, but yet they force those images onto everyone who walks through that area of campus, which is pretty much everyone.

[Phenix]

People are at the U to study not be berated by some propaganda garbage. i know when i was there, i was too concerned with the work i had to get done to give a shit about that garbage.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Phenix
People are at the U to study not be berated by some propaganda garbage.

You don’t think university students are bombarded with propaganda on a daily basis?


Originally posted by buh_buh
they want the freedom to express, but yet they force those images onto everyone who walks through that area of campus, which is pretty much everyone.

That is the definition of “freedom of expression” lol

[Cos]

Originally posted by buh_buh
they want the freedom to express, but yet they force those images onto everyone who walks through that area of campus, which is pretty much everyone.

+1 freedom of speech is different then obscene marketing which is what this really is

[arian_ma]

It's a little different when you're getting charged for the garbage that's spewing out of your mouth, literally offending everyone. Not just the people who don't like to see the pictures or are pro-abortion, but also it is disgustingly insulting to parallel the holocaust with abortion. (Not to me, but imagine if it was your family.)

The propaganda that students are bombarded every day with don't offend them horrendously.

[dandia89]

"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours."

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by dandia89
"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours."
The difference is that with this man, you can get up and leave whenever you want. With these fuckers, you can't. They're in your way.

[rob.cal]

Oh absolutely, I would love to have a logical debate with anyone even if they spew shit out of their mouth. On the other hand, what would you do if that same neo-nazi marched onto your lawn and started spewing shit at you, cause that's pretty much what Pro-life is doing, but they forget that the opposite side of the argument is PRO-CHOICE NOT PRO-ABORTION, no one is advocating for pregnant women to abort their babies, just that women in this day and age, should have the right to be able to choose.

[Super_Geo]

There is literally a pile of 100-200+ metal coat hangers sitting around my condo somewhere (drycleaners)... I would be willing to donate all of them to someone who is willing to set up a booth directly across from them with a sign that says "FREE COATHANGERS."

[arian_ma]

...how long are they there for?

[Type_S1]

These people seriously need to die....

Not 1 person on campus takes them seriously and all they do is piss people off. I really want to get a bucket of paint and throw it all over the huge posters. Would solve everything and cost them a little coin :dunno:

This is equivalent to someone sitting there showing pictures of the KKK burning or beating african americans. It's just there to piss people off. This is where cops need to show up and BEAT DOWN people.

[911fever]

Originally posted by Type_S1
These people seriously need to die....

It's just there to piss people off. This is where cops need to show up and BEAT DOWN people.


:facepalm:

[thepyrofish]

Originally posted by Super_Geo
There is literally a pile of 100-200+ metal coat hangers sitting around my condo somewhere (drycleaners)... I would be willing to donate all of them to someone who is willing to set up a booth directly across from them with a sign that says "FREE COATHANGERS."

If I lived in Calgary I'd be there in a heartbeat. Somebody must do this, and it must be filmed.

[Super_Geo]

Handing out free coat hangers is actually a very valid rebuttal against the pro life position.

Do you want to ban abortion and force women to resort to other means? Do women not deserve the right to follow through on their choice in a safe, regulated way? Or should they have to resort to highly dangerous methods because your little storybook says so?

[Nismorphed]

I don't even notice those people anymore I turn my head when I walk by them.

[jacky4566]

nobody stops the guy on a bike to talk about this so i just ride on by and give a pro-choicer a high 5.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Super_Geo
There is literally a pile of 100-200+ metal coat hangers sitting around my condo somewhere (drycleaners)... I would be willing to donate all of them to someone who is willing to set up a booth directly across from them with a sign that says "FREE COATHANGERS."

I'd do this if they were still there on saturday, except they will probably be booted by then.

[ixlr8]

If you get offended by their pictures, you are a not a well adjusted adult. You think women deserve the freedom, and yet you can't handle that the consequences of that freedom is that some people will compare grinded up fetus to rotting human carcass? If you value the freedom you should be secure enough to acknowledge the outcome; and intelligent enough to acknowledge that some people might see the outcome differently than yourself.

I am completely pro-choice, do whatever the fuck you want to do as long as it isn't hurting someone else, but allow other people that exact same freedom.

The people protesting see abortion as a freedom that IS hurting someone else. In their opinion (which is completely valid even though it differs from yours) the determining factor of what constitutes human life is different than what the law says; and they care about this discrepancy enough to go out and actually do something.

If you don't like their opinion, and you don't like their documentation, use your own freedom to actually do something about it. Set up a booth right beside theirs with posters about how the fetus is escaping this existence and moving on to a higher level of alien designed consciousness or some shit.

It is bizarre that this is even an issue, women have the freedom, they actively use it, the protests aren't going to do shit to stop it, so let them stand on their soap box, put up their pictures and express their concerns. Hell, even stop, take a look at their pictures and smile knowing that the grinded up fetus is proof positive that women all across this country have and enjoy the freedom you so desperately want them to have.

Oh and you really should take a step back and realize that they made you their bitch. You admit they just want attention and yet you couldn't just forget about it and move on with your day; their sad little protest got to you.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by ixlr8
If you get offended by their pictures, you are a not a well adjusted adult. You think women deserve the freedom, and yet you can't handle that the consequences of that freedom is that some people will compare grinded up fetus to rotting human carcass? If you value the freedom you should be secure enough to acknowledge the outcome; and intelligent enough to acknowledge that some people might see the outcome differently than yourself.

So you're under the impression that a person can't understand the outcome of pro-choice or "handle the consequences" without having to be harrassed by the images while they walk around campus?

It's no different than eating meat; I like a good steak and I understand the process that it takes to turn Bessy into my steak. That doesn't mean that I feel like looking at pictures of a slaughter house while I walk around campus, or the mall or wherever. If I wanted more information on how steak is made then I'll look into it.

As for these idiots opinions; no one cares at all whether they are anti or pro they just hate them because they are abrasive and unreasonable in the way that they demonstrate.

[almerick]

I rather invite a Jehovah's witness for a chat than talk to these idiots.

This is my opinion.

[ixlr8]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs
It's no different than eating meat; I like a good steak and I understand the process that it takes to turn Bessy into my steak. That doesn't mean that I feel like looking at pictures of a slaughter house while I walk around campus, or the mall or wherever. If I wanted more information on how steak is made then I'll look into it.



In this inane quote you use "I" six times. Sorry champ, you are one nearly meaningless individual in a country (and University) where what you want is guaranteed to be different from what everyone else wants. How you want your individual existence to be, rightfully and thankfully doesn't mean shit.

Vegetarians and vegans have completely equal rights and equally weighted opinions. If they want to put up pictures that make poor little steak loving you uncomfortable, they can and they should; especially if there are actually still people like you out there who are weak minded enough to be affected by it.

I had no clue it is apparently so easy to fuck with people mentally. Don’t you see that you are validating their opinion and methods by even spending one minute thinking about them? Don’t let them pull your bitch card, just laugh/smile/smirk/ignore and keep walking.

HOWEVER, if they are really getting to you, just outright owning your soul, petition for the University to reject all public funding and become a completely private enterprise where there is nearly no argument left for free speech. Of course when it hits you in the wallet, you might wish you could go back to the freedom (and corresponding freedom for others) afforded by a publicly subsidized institution.

[austic]

If they believe that abortions are murder at even the cellular level. Do they also believe that a women swallowing is homicide?

[Spoons]

Originally posted by ixlr8



In this inane quote you use "I" six times. Sorry champ, you are one nearly meaningless individual in a country (and University) where what you want is guaranteed to be different from what everyone else wants. How you want your individual existence to be, rightfully and thankfully doesn't mean shit.

Vegetarians and vegans have completely equal rights and equally weighted opinions. If they want to put up pictures that make poor little steak loving you uncomfortable, they can and they should; especially if there are actually still people like you out there who are weak minded enough to be affected by it.

I had no clue it is apparently so easy to fuck with people mentally. Don’t you see that you are validating their opinion and methods by even spending one minute thinking about them? Don’t let them pull your bitch card, just laugh/smile/smirk/ignore and keep walking.

HOWEVER, if they are really getting to you, just outright owning your soul, petition for the University to reject all public funding and become a completely private enterprise where there is nearly no argument left for free speech. Of course when it hits you in the wallet, you might wish you could go back to the freedom (and corresponding freedom for others) afforded by a publicly subsidized institution.

You are completely right, but there is a difference between standing on your soap box and driving a soap box derby car right into everyone's crotches. These guys get all up in your business and make getting somewhere a little more difficult.

I WILL 100% do the hanger idea under following circumstances:
1) It's done tomorrow, as its my last day off for the week.
2) I have a booth with sign setup for me.

That is a promise if someone can fashion this for me. They will come up to me and complain, while I will stand there and not even acknowledge their existence... Just like the dead fetus'.

[Guillermo]

Once again, their anti-abortion message is being utterly lost in this silly "freedom of speech" controversy.

The point is that this has absolutely nothing to do with freedom of speech. They are trespassing on private property. End of story. Charges have already been laid against this group, and they most certainly would have been found guilty except the crown and university stayed charges and avoid a media frenzy.

furthermore (and although this is irrelevant), "freedom of speech" does not mean you can run around doing and saying whatever you want. Do you think it would be OK for me to run around campus showing giant graphic images of hardcore gay beast fisting BDSM scat porn? Or, running around yelling "gook," "nigger," "Spic," "raghear," blah blah blah at people? of course it wouldn't!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by ixlr8
HOWEVER, if they are really getting to you, just outright owning your soul, petition for the University to reject all public funding and become a completely private enterprise where there is nearly no argument left for free speech. Of course when it hits you in the wallet, you might wish you could go back to the freedom (and corresponding freedom for others) afforded by a publicly subsidized institution.

Ignoring your clearly uninformed comments on me personally; is your belief that a person or group of people should be able to do anything they like in public without any boundaries or restrictions just because it's not private property?

[ixlr8]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs

Ignoring your clearly uninformed comments on me personally


Cute.



Originally posted by BrknFngrs
is your belief that a person or group of people should be able to do anything they like in public without any boundaries or restrictions just because it's not private property?


Well since you asked, my belief is that we are a bunch of monkeys that don't understand far more than we understand.

How does that relate to this discussion?

We are figuring shit out as we go.

So when dealing with an obviously extremely gray area like determining the precise moment that cell division becomes something worth more than the sum of its parts; we should allow monkeys with differing opinions than the law (which was formed by a bunch of other monkeys that don't really know shit) to express them publicly.

Just as I feel we should allow monkeys that like to fuck monkeys of the same sex (defined by evolution to be an anomaly) to have ridiculous/intentionally provocative parades on public streets and to have clubs in public Universities.

Just as I feel we should allow monkeys that want to stop starvation, disease, rape squads, and genocide in Africa, the freedom to put up posters and show videos that are extremely “disturbing”; in the naïve hope that they might wake other monkeys up to what is happening outside the walls of their comfortable existence.

Just as I feel we should allow monkeys that hate different colored monkeys to get together and hoot and holler and thump their chests and put up signs saying they'd like to kill all the monkeys that don't look exactly like them.

Just as I feel we should allow anyone, intelligent or not, to express their opinion and perspective in public places with as much documentation, metaphor, and thought exercises as they are able; in order that they would be ignored or attended to, based on the validity of their argument as weighed by the individuals that form the masses.

The truth will continue to make its way to the surface IF and only IF we allow everyone to express his or her own opinion publicly.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by ixlr8
So when dealing with an obviously extremely gray area like determining the precise moment that cell division becomes something worth more than the sum of its parts; we should allow monkeys with differing opinions than the law (which was formed by a bunch of other monkeys that don't really know shit) to express them publicly.

If you honestly believe that people dislike this group because of their opinion on "the precise moment that cell division becomes something more than the sum of its parts" you give this group far too much credit.

Based on the rest of your post it sounds like your position is basically that free speech trumps all and that any limiting of this hampers our ability to expand our knowledge; would you agree with that?

Do you then also oppose legislation against slander because it infringes on free speech? How about "hate speak" legislation?

Or are you only supportive of these images being displayed because there isn't yet specific legislation against it?

[rob.cal]

You know what, I think I might be able to organize a booth across from these guys, I've got a club, and I'll look into the legalities into doing this, I don't want anyone to get into trouble. I'm just not sure how long these jokers will be there.

[captain134]

Originally posted by ixlr8



Cute.





Well since you asked, my belief is that we are a bunch of monkeys that don't understand far more than we understand.

How does that relate to this discussion?

We are figuring shit out as we go.

So when dealing with an obviously extremely gray area like determining the precise moment that cell division becomes something worth more than the sum of its parts; we should allow monkeys with differing opinions than the law (which was formed by a bunch of other monkeys that don't really know shit) to express them publicly.

Just as I feel we should allow monkeys that like to fuck monkeys of the same sex (defined by evolution to be an anomaly) to have ridiculous/intentionally provocative parades on public streets and to have clubs in public Universities.

Just as I feel we should allow monkeys that want to stop starvation, disease, rape squads, and genocide in Africa, the freedom to put up posters and show videos that are extremely “disturbing”; in the naïve hope that they might wake other monkeys up to what is happening outside the walls of their comfortable existence.

Just as I feel we should allow monkeys that hate different colored monkeys to get together and hoot and holler and thump their chests and put up signs saying they'd like to kill all the monkeys that don't look exactly like them.

Just as I feel we should allow anyone, intelligent or not, to express their opinion and perspective in public places with as much documentation, metaphor, and thought exercises as they are able; in order that they would be ignored or attended to, based on the validity of their argument as weighed by the individuals that form the masses.

The truth will continue to make its way to the surface IF and only IF we allow everyone to express his or her own opinion publicly.

okkkkkkkkkkkk........

Anyways. +1 for the coat hanger idea! Sounds like an amazing idea.

[captain134]

Also I can lend a hand to set up the booth or whatever. I live close to the uni so let me know if anybody is going to go through with it.

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by rob.cal
You know what, I think I might be able to organize a booth across from these guys, I've got a club, and I'll look into the legalities into doing this, I don't want anyone to get into trouble. I'm just not sure how long these jokers will be there.


Originally posted by captain134
Also I can lend a hand to set up the booth or whatever. I live close to the uni so let me know if anybody is going to go through with it.

If you guys could organize a group, the most effective strategy would be to construct big walls around the anti-abortion display, with a door that would allow willing people inside to view the display. This would be totally acceptable, because the same "rights" that protect the anti-abortion display would protect yours as well.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8829/26106725.jpg

[ixlr8]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs
If you honestly believe that people dislike this group because of their opinion on "the precise moment that cell division becomes something more than the sum of its parts" you give this group far too much credit.

That is the fundamental question they are asking, although they may not know it or be able to express it that way; it is their right to be bumbling idiots. In fact they are doing more damage than good by being uniformed of the philosophical basis of their position, which is good for any and all of their opponents.

Again I fail to understand why people don’t simply ignore them; they want your attention, whether positive or negative in its nature. Stop giving it to them and you have won.


As to your other questions, I feel intent is the most important factor when dealing with the specifics of the law (of which I am no expert) and intent is determined case by case. I think the question to be asked is; was the individual’s intent to cause tangible damage? Or was the intent simply to relay an ideology/perspective/opinion; regardless of the ramifications of the ideology/perspective/opinion actually being manifested or the crudity of its transfer method? Obviously in certain situations this can be extremely difficult to discern; however I feel the issue at hand isn’t anywhere close to being one of those incidents.



In closing, best of luck to those with the coat hanger booth idea! I fully support your right to put it up and would personally enjoy the drama it would create! However let’s be realistic, the odds dictate that it won’t happen because really, you don’t care THAT much, do you? You just want to bitch, and again I fully support that right, even if in this specific situation it is fundamentally hypocritical.

[sh0ko]

lol just smile give a thumbs up and then turn it into a finger and do this while continuing to walk by them at pt blank range. its actually quite funny.

[rob.cal]

sh0ko, I'm gonna try that today

[gyu]

^post the results :D

Sh0ko it sounds like you did it, how did they react?

[codetrap]

Is the display in a wide open area? Set it on fire! Or take a spray can and black out the "anti" in abortion.

[dirtsniffer]

They're not here today. Hopefully they don't come back

[Q-TIP]

Originally posted by ixlr8


In this inane quote you use "I" six times. Sorry champ, you are one nearly meaningless individual in a country (and University) where what you want is guaranteed to be different from what everyone else wants. How you want your individual existence to be, rightfully and thankfully doesn't mean shit.

Vegetarians and vegans have completely equal rights and equally weighted opinions. If they want to put up pictures that make poor little steak loving you uncomfortable, they can and they should; especially if there are actually still people like you out there who are weak minded enough to be affected by it.

I had no clue it is apparently so easy to fuck with people mentally. Don’t you see that you are validating their opinion and methods by even spending one minute thinking about them? Don’t let them pull your bitch card, just laugh/smile/smirk/ignore and keep walking.

HOWEVER, if they are really getting to you, just outright owning your soul, petition for the University to reject all public funding and become a completely private enterprise where there is nearly no argument left for free speech. Of course when it hits you in the wallet, you might wish you could go back to the freedom (and corresponding freedom for others) afforded by a publicly subsidized institution.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms does protect the freedom of expression (there is no separate freedom of speech clause) insofar as that expression does not impose discomfort or spread messages that would infringe on any other constitutional right. This means that if a message is offensive, and presented in such a way as to make it difficult to avoid it can be deemed illegal. Furthermore our Charter much like that of the United States does not extend to private property. A person, or corporation has the right to limit what messages are presented on their property. This means that if the University of Calgary does not want a message on campus then there is absolutely no law that states they MUST allow that message to be broadcast in any manner. In fact, if they deem that message inappropriate they have every right to expel the party involved without explanation or consideration.

End of story, do not argue law when you do not fully understand it.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by ixlr8



Cute.





Well since you asked, my belief is that we are a bunch of monkeys that don't understand far more than we understand.

How does that relate to this discussion?

We are figuring shit out as we go.

So when dealing with an obviously extremely gray area like determining the precise moment that cell division becomes something worth more than the sum of its parts; we should allow monkeys with differing opinions than the law (which was formed by a bunch of other monkeys that don't really know shit) to express them publicly.

Just as I feel we should allow monkeys that like to fuck monkeys of the same sex (defined by evolution to be an anomaly) to have ridiculous/intentionally provocative parades on public streets and to have clubs in public Universities.

Just as I feel we should allow monkeys that want to stop starvation, disease, rape squads, and genocide in Africa, the freedom to put up posters and show videos that are extremely “disturbing”; in the naïve hope that they might wake other monkeys up to what is happening outside the walls of their comfortable existence.

Just as I feel we should allow monkeys that hate different colored monkeys to get together and hoot and holler and thump their chests and put up signs saying they'd like to kill all the monkeys that don't look exactly like them.

Just as I feel we should allow anyone, intelligent or not, to express their opinion and perspective in public places with as much documentation, metaphor, and thought exercises as they are able; in order that they would be ignored or attended to, based on the validity of their argument as weighed by the individuals that form the masses.

The truth will continue to make its way to the surface IF and only IF we allow everyone to express his or her own opinion publicly.

So you're ok with everything and believe in nothing eh?

Which one of these three gentlemen would you say you most resemble?

http://dogpossum.org/archives/image/nihilists.jpg

[Spoons]

Shh you guys, less time bickering, more time organizing my "Free Abortion Hanger" booth next to them.

I'm 100% serious, I will do this. If anyone has taken anything from my posts, I love to shit disturb.

[rob.cal]

Aw man, they're gone, I actually contacted the guys with booking services, I was serious about setting up a coat hanger booth. Maybe next year!

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Q-TIP
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms does protect the freedom of expression (there is no separate freedom of speech clause) insofar as that expression does not impose discomfort or spread messages that would infringe on any other constitutional right. This means that if a message is offensive, and presented in such a way as to make it difficult to avoid it can be deemed illegal. Furthermore our Charter much like that of the United States does not extend to private property. A person, or corporation has the right to limit what messages are presented on their property. This means that if the University of Calgary does not want a message on campus then there is absolutely no law that states they MUST allow that message to be broadcast in any manner. In fact, if they deem that message inappropriate they have every right to expel the party involved without explanation or consideration.

End of story, do not argue law when you do not fully understand it.

And I have a couple lawyers specialized in constitutional law who disagree. Specifically the ones who challenge the fact that the University since it is publicly funded, is not private property. The University for all intents and purposes is an extension of public land due to the government funding. Do you consider school yards and schools to be private property? They are "owned" by the CBE. Same goes with hospitals... How the message can be constituted as difficult to avoid is rather flawed since it's not like you cannot choose to look away.

At the end of the day there are videos are protests far worse than what the anti abortion clowns have on display... For whatever reason these guys get a lot of hate. The PETA displays in MacHall with the full blown uncensored images of the slaughter houses are far worse. Hell even the Palestinian awareness week posters with thinly veiled anti-semantic posters and speeches is worse. How about that one display the Tibetans put on in the basement of MacHall with all the images of the tortured and butchered Tibetans?

Anyways at the end of the day I don't want to be the one making the call as to what is offensive and what is not. All that leads to is a slippery slope where we all lose our freedom of speech. What happens when you put someone in power who finds revealing clothes to be offensive etc.... ad nauseum. People should be free to shock and disgust people. Luckily in Canada we do have established precedent which illustrates that shocking and disgusting images are protected.

You can't cheer on the guy with the coat hangers and at the same time disparage the folk he is protesting. Both have an equal right to be there and be heard. That's the beauty of our country and our constitution.

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


And I have a couple lawyers specialized in constitutional law who disagree. Specifically the ones who challenge the fact that the University since it is publicly funded, is not private property. The University for all intents and purposes is an extension of public land due to the government funding. Do you consider school yards and schools to be private property? They are "owned" by the CBE. Same goes with hospitals... How the message can be constituted as difficult to avoid is rather flawed since it's not like you cannot choose to look away.


this is absolute nonsense. the government also offered a home renovation tax credit last year. by your logic, any house upgraded with that funding would now public property. :banghead:

Also, bums and panhandlers are routinely kicked off campus. In fact, i just saw it happen again last week. The only reason the U of C can do that is because the campus is private property.


Originally posted by mazdavirgin

At the end of the day there are videos are protests far worse than what the anti abortion clowns have on display... For whatever reason these guys get a lot of hate. The PETA displays in MacHall with the full blown uncensored images of the slaughter houses are far worse. Hell even the Palestinian awareness week posters with thinly veiled anti-semantic posters and speeches is worse. How about that one display the Tibetans put on in the basement of MacHall with all the images of the tortured and butchered Tibetans?

Funny, I've been at the U of C since 2001, and have never once saw these other displays you speak of. I've seen the abortion thing probably 10 times now, and they've only been doing it for a few years. I'm not saying the others don't exist, but instead making the point that this abortion group is far more "in your face" than these other groups - which explains why they "get more hate" and renders your argument invalid.

[vengie]

Originally posted by rob.cal
Aw man, they're gone, I actually contacted the guys with booking services, I was serious about setting up a coat hanger booth. Maybe next year!

Next year?? they'll be back next month... Legitimately look into the legalities of it and be ready to set up as soon as they come back... I am in to help.

[911fever]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


And I have a couple lawyers specialized in constitutional law who disagree. Specifically the ones who challenge the fact that the University since it is publicly funded, is not private property. The University for all intents and purposes is an extension of public land due to the government funding. Do you consider school yards and schools to be private property? They are "owned" by the CBE. Same goes with hospitals... How the message can be constituted as difficult to avoid is rather flawed since it's not like you cannot choose to look away.

At the end of the day there are videos are protests far worse than what the anti abortion clowns have on display... For whatever reason these guys get a lot of hate. The PETA displays in MacHall with the full blown uncensored images of the slaughter houses are far worse. Hell even the Palestinian awareness week posters with thinly veiled anti-semantic posters and speeches is worse. How about that one display the Tibetans put on in the basement of MacHall with all the images of the tortured and butchered Tibetans?

Anyways at the end of the day I don't want to be the one making the call as to what is offensive and what is not. All that leads to is a slippery slope where we all lose our freedom of speech. What happens when you put someone in power who finds revealing clothes to be offensive etc.... ad nauseum. People should be free to shock and disgust people. Luckily in Canada we do have established precedent which illustrates that shocking and disgusting images are protected.

You can't cheer on the guy with the coat hangers and at the same time disparage the folk he is protesting. Both have an equal right to be there and be heard. That's the beauty of our country and our constitution.

+1 Amen!!!

[ixlr8]

Originally posted by Q-TIP
End of story, do not argue law when you do not fully understand it.

Although your delusional declaration that the “end of story” had come was entertaining, entertainment (as we all know) has very little substance.

With all due respect (which is at best trace levels) your reading comprehension skills are severely lacking.

I clearly clarified that I am no expert on the specifics of the law. As well, I have never spoken to legality or illegality, I have only shared my personal opinion on the rationality (or irrationality) of specific situations. I don’t know the law, I am no lawyer, I don’t know what the legal abilities (or inabilities) of a public University are; I am merely an extremely balanced, rational and logical monkey, who can cleary discern the validity of an argument based on its merit as an intelligent and defendable supposition.

However, since you are lacking the aforementioned skills, allow me to clarify my OPINION.

If an institution of higher learning receives a significant amount of government funds (read: the hard earned money of those with a limitless amount of varying opinions and perspectives) then there is, and always will be, a valid argument for the freedom of any tax paying citizen (especially those who also pay tuition) to demonstrate (while doing no tangible harm to property or person) on its grounds.

If that is not what the law says right now, then that is what it should be (underlined for your benefit) in a balanced, rational, logical and freedom loving country.

Perhaps I give the country too much credit? Your call champ.


Moreover, “mazdavirgin” looks to have a far better grasp on the specifics of the law and makes some very interesting counter points to your poor conception of what was actually at discussion.


***EDIT***

To make sure you understand what "significant amount of government funds" means, I will provide a quote and link; just so there isn't any confusion or redundant debate about what constitutes significant.

"The University of Calgary will receive $418.8 million for the 2010-11 fiscal year, which begins April 1, 2010. This funding is down $7.8 million from 2009-10 funding of $426.6 million. For context, provincial funding makes up the majority (roughly two-thirds) of the U of C's total operating budget."

Link to context. (http://www.ucalgary.ca/vpfs/portfolio/messages/prov_budget/)

[sh0ko]

Originally posted by gyu
^post the results :D

Sh0ko it sounds like you did it, how did they react? ]

normally i dont care.. but when one starts to try to rub their beliefs on me it really f*ing irks me the wrong way.. they just had a shocked look and told me i was a jerk...*shrugs*,. DONT RUB THOSE BROCHURES IN MY FACE PLZ fuck

next time im simply gonna try to be polite and ask
"dont u have more important shit like hw to do"

maybe though.. just maybe

[rx7boi]

ixlr8 is right, at the most basic level there is a big difference between what is allowed and what you think people ought not to say.

[CUG]

Originally posted by rob.cal
Yes, but freedom of speech only protects that which the community does not find as obscene, and these posters are undoubtedly obscene You're not overly familiar with law, are you?

[cjay^]

I don't give them the satisfaction of my acknowledgment of their display. Therefore I win.

[NRGie]

Originally posted by rob.cal
Aw man, they're gone, I actually contacted the guys with booking services, I was serious about setting up a coat hanger booth. Maybe next year!

There were people who set up a coat hanger give away. Engg students I think?

[pinoyboy88]

They have pictures outside in front of Murray Fraser hall again

[mazdavirgin]

Seems all the people who think the University doesn't have to abide by the Charter of Rights are WRONG. Not that it is really surprising considering you had to be a little daft to think otherwise.



In his written decision released on Tuesday, provincial court Judge John Bascom issued a judicial stay of the July 25, 2008, trespassing violation against William Whatcott.

An indefinite ban against Whatcott from setting foot on the campus, stemming from a similar incident on Jan. 16, 2005, when Whatcott was cited for handing out anti-abortion flyers, was also lifted.

“Preventing the peaceful distribution of leaflets that an individual attendee finds offensive does not relate to an objective that is pressing and substantial,” Bascom said in his written decision.

“It is therefore not of sufficient importance to override a constitutionally protected right. Having found the university actions in banning Mr. Whatcott is not a significant objective, it is unnecessary to move to the second part of the test, that is, the means chosen are reasonable and demonstrably justified. . . . I find that banning Mr. Whatcott is arbitrary and unfair. The means used by campus security halted Mr. Whatcott’s distribution of these flyers and violated his right of free expression. In addition, the indefinite ban for Mr. Whatcott’s actions of Jan. 16, 2005, are out of proportion.”

Dale Fedorchuk, Whatcott’s lawyer, said outside court the judge’s decision found that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms applied to the actions taken by the university in this case to ban him and issue him with a trespassing ticket.

“In so doing, the judge applied the charter to the University of Calgary, notwithstanding the Crown’s (Kristyn Stevens) argument that the university is private property to which the charter does not apply,” said Fedorchuk.

“To reach that decision, Judge Bascom concluded private entities may be subject to charter scrutiny for such actions when actions are inherently governmental.”

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Judge+says+distributing+anti+flyer+violated+rights/5715961/story.html#ixzz1dtU89KWT


It's about time the University got their wrists slapped for trying to limit free speech. In either case I don't agree with either of the protesters but I strongly believe in the fact that they should be allowed to express themselves even if it offends people.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
Seems all the people who think the University doesn't have to abide by the Charter of Rights are WRONG. Not that it is really surprising considering you had to be a little daft to think otherwise.



It's about time the University got their wrists slapped for trying to limit free speech. In either case I don't agree with either of the protesters but I strongly believe in the fact that they should be allowed to express themselves even if it offends people.

They should be able to express themselves...but not with obsene and disgusting photographs. They were recently saying to students if you support abortion your equivalent to hitler. :facepalm:

You can't argue with these people because they are retarded...so throw freedom of speech right back at them and put up a pro-abortion campaign right beside them :guns:

[Tik-Tok]

Someone should put up photo's of what anti-abortion extremist's do. E.g. Blown up clinics, innocent people who have died, convicted anti-abortion murderer's, etc.

They could be legally protesting, anti-abortionists, lol.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Someone should put up photo's of what anti-abortion extremist's do. E.g. Blown up clinics, innocent people who have died, convicted anti-abortion murderer's, etc.

They could be legally protesting, anti-abortionists, lol.

Agreed. There is no use sweeping things under the rug because some people are uncomfortable with ideas. People should be free to express all sorts of ideas no matter if they are offensive. Recall it used to be offensive and controversial for women to vote or for people of African descent to use the same water fountains as Caucasians.

[dj_patm]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
It's about time the University got their wrists slapped for trying to limit free speech. In either case I don't agree with either of the protesters but I strongly believe in the fact that they should be allowed to express themselves even if it offends people. [/B]

I'm going to go put up picture of a big fat white women getting plowed by a horse and hand out pamphlets about how "Beastiality is a right!"

Thats your logic. It's fucking retarded.

[CUG]

Originally posted by dj_patm


I'm going to go put up picture of a big fat white women getting plowed by a horse and hand out pamphlets about how "Beastiality is a right!"

Thats your logic. It's fucking retarded. By any liberal interpretation of rights, getting plowed by a fat chick is ok... or a fat chick and a horse or whatever.

[Myrrinda]

Their purpose is to offend people. Ignore them and it'll take away their 'power'. I doubt they'd be there all the time if no one paid any attention to them.

[themack89]

Originally posted by Myrrinda
Their purpose is to offend people. Ignore them and it'll take away their 'power'. I doubt they'd be there all the time if no one paid any attention to them.

Exactly

You guys are giving them exactly what they want...

Attention and awareness.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by dj_patm
I'm going to go put up picture of a big fat white women getting plowed by a horse and hand out pamphlets about how "Beastiality is a right!"

Thats your logic. It's fucking retarded.

Straw man argument since bestiality is illegal due to animal abuse issues. However if you were handing out pamphlets with a big fat women getting plowed by a dude that's fine I would be ok with it. :) You have a right to express your ideas no matter how controversial. I think it is very important to allow freedom of expression and freedom of expression supersedes the right not to be offended by someone else speech. Otherwise there would be no free speech since you always offend someone. Do you want to live in a society where you can't decry Sharia law out of fear of being labelled intolerant of Muslim beliefs as an example?

[Danny Meehan]

That is freedom of speech ... whether be it on tv, radio, in your face

You can respectfully decline, or exercit punishment on their persona, at which point you will be liable for said events and outcomes.

Originally posted by buh_buh
they want the freedom to express, but yet they force those images onto everyone who walks through that area of campus, which is pretty much everyone.

[-relk-]

It has already been brought up, I take it back.

[LOLzilla]

There was a group of protestors on Stephen Avenue today during lunch. Same group?

[FullFledgedYYC]

I believe its the same people. They were out on 7th ave a week or two ago as well.

I am actually friends with one of them on facebook, for reasons I am not sure of, and she is one of the most narrow minded idiots I have ever met in my life....

[Spoons]

Again I will put up the offer again.

Beyond builds me a sign/booth and obtains a bunch of coat hangers, I will go and follow them/stand by them handing out free coat hangers.

Video and photo proof will be provided after. And no worries, I will invite my larger friends as body guards.

[magicalpoop]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


Agreed. There is no use sweeping things under the rug because some people are uncomfortable with ideas. People should be free to express all sorts of ideas no matter if they are offensive. Recall it used to be offensive and controversial for women to vote or for people of African descent to use the same water fountains as Caucasians.

Yes but showing graphic depictions of WW2 concentration camp victims is inappropriate, rude, and shames the cause.

What the hell does a burnt up crispy WW2 Jewish fetus have to do with their fucking cause? FUCKING NOTHING.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by FullFledgedYYC
I believe its the same people. They were out on 7th ave a week or two ago as well.
Absolutely. My buddy and I walked by it and said "I thought we got away from all that once we graduated"

[EG6boi]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-epNe8itSSIc/UCQW_SYHvjI/AAAAAAABZpE/orYXHxAJPy4/s716/547823_406224736108753_1128151658_n.jpg

Not exactly the same idea but you get the point. I see some of their fetus ads on Calgary Transit and it's just bothersome.

[FullFledgedYYC]

God I would love to post that on my facebook for that pro-lifer to see..... if only she wasn't friends with my girlfriend I would make her cry.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by Spoons
Again I will put up the offer again.

Beyond builds me a sign/booth and obtains a bunch of coat hangers, I will go and follow them/stand by them handing out free coat hangers.

Video and photo proof will be provided after. And no worries, I will invite my larger friends as body guards.

That would certainly invoke a reaction hahaha

[SmAcKpOo]

I saw them once on the corner of Crowchild right by McMahon Stadium (Stamps game) a few years ago and parents with their kids had to walk by these posters of aborted fetuses. How do you explain that to an 8 year old?

[FullFledgedYYC]

Originally posted by SmAcKpOo
I saw them once on the corner of Crowchild right by McMahon Stadium (Stamps game) a few years ago and parents with their kids had to walk by these posters of aborted fetuses. How do you explain that to an 8 year old?

"If you grow up to be like one of these idiots, don't ever talk to me again"

[duaner]

Originally posted by EG6boi
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-epNe8itSSIc/UCQW_SYHvjI/AAAAAAABZpE/orYXHxAJPy4/s716/547823_406224736108753_1128151658_n.jpg

Not exactly the same idea but you get the point. I see some of their fetus ads on Calgary Transit and it's just bothersome.
While I am pro-life, I'm not sure how I feel about pictures of aborted fetuses. I would imagine they are about as effective as graphic pics on cigarette packages and are not likely going to change anyone's mind. I would prefer they use pics of mothers holding newborns in the delivery room--something happy and focusing on the new life.

As for the poster, only the last line is applicable and I do agree with it.

[colinxx235]

Sorry, how is "only the last line" applicable?

[duaner]

Originally posted by colinxx235
Sorry, how is "only the last line" applicable?
Because the first two aren't applicable....The first one really has nothing to do with the abortion debate and the second is about birth control. Is there some way that birth control is applicable that I'm not seeing?

[FullFledgedYYC]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/17/campus-pro-life-launches-appeal-after-university-reprimanded-them-over-graphic-anti-abortion-display/

Seems these idiots are in court this week. I know one of them... she's not exactly a shining star of intelligence.

Typical closed-minded religious extremist... thinks gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, thinks people shouldn't live together before marriage... etc. etc.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by FullFledgedYYC

Typical closed-minded religious extremist... thinks gays shouldn't be allowed to marry,

http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/gay_marriage/gay_marriage.png

[effingidiot]

Originally posted by FullFledgedYYC
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/17/campus-pro-life-launches-appeal-after-university-reprimanded-them-over-graphic-anti-abortion-display/

Seems these idiots are in court this week. I know one of them... she's not exactly a shining star of intelligence.

Typical closed-minded religious extremist... thinks gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, thinks people shouldn't live together before marriage... etc. etc.

Meh. Could be worse.

WARNING: WATCH AT YOUR OWN RISK.

C5mku6s7vOI

[dirtsniffer]

Dude wtf was that