Why do a lot of sports car owners get auto/tipronic over manual?

[in*10*se]

I dunno, I've been looking around for a decent used car
A5, 3-series, M3's, 6-series, IS, etc etc... but like more than 50% of them are always auto... i don't get it... why on earth would anyone buy a nice sports car, and get it in auto!?!??! so frustrating... just wondering for the people that do own a pretty nice sports car...

WHY AUTO? totally takes away from the fun factor of ripping around in any nice car. (imo)

[bulaian]

you can shift faster with the paddles, while keeping both hands on the wheel

[adidas]

If it was a strict weekend car(Ferrari, Lambo, Anything over $250K) I would expect it to be manual.

With the cars that you mentioned most are daily drivers for people, and for them having to shift during stop and go downtown traffic is a pain in the ass.

If i was to get a 6-series it would def be a auto, most of the NEW auto transmissions shift much faster than you could pull off in a manual car.

Might be a fun thing to do for us young guys, but i think once you get older you dont wanna be shifting gears. :dunno:

[CMW403]

I whole heartedly agree with you.

Iv always told myself i'd buy a brand new supercar one day, unfortunately when that day comes there will be no such thing as stick shift and i'll have to buy used:bullshit:

[toyboy88]

Originally posted by adidas
If it was a strict weekend car(Ferrari, Lambo, Anything over $250K) I would expect it to be manual.

With the cars that you mentioned most are daily drivers for people, and for them having to shift during stop and go downtown traffic is a pain in the ass.

If i was to get a 6-series it would def be a auto, most of the NEW auto transmissions shift much faster than you could pull off in a manual car.



Well said, my thoughts exactly :werd:

[adam c]

My next car is definitely going to be auto/tip I just can't do the rush hour traffic with a manual anymore

[max_boost]

You get bored of shifting gears afterawhile lol Plus on some cars, the autos are fairly exciting (IMO), VW-DSG, MB 7 speed/Lexus 8 speed I found were pretty sweet. If anything these autos shift faster than me manually possible haha I like being able to just put the pedal to the medal and go lol :burnout:

Perhaps I can interest you in a 6 speed NSX. You would be the only 05 in the City haha :D

[heavyD]

I got tired of constantly using my left foot in city traffic and DCT's shift faster than I could anyway. With my EVO I just put it in sport mode and let the transmission do all the work. I do enjoy rowing through the gears of a good manual transmission but I find that too many manuals these days are rubbery or very notchy. DCT's are the best of both worlds as you can let the car shift automatically or you can do it manually via paddle shifters.

The guys that slam DCT's are usually young drivers that are still in their infant driving stages and think that driving a manual is a more connected feeling. Ten years ago I would probably have never looked at an auto but after 15 years of driving only manuals I can honestly say I don't miss it one bit. The cars you are looking at are not aimed at the younger crowd which is why you aren't going to see many of them equipped with a manual transmission.

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by max_boost
You get bored of shifting gears afterawhile lol Plus on some cars, the autos are fairly exciting (IMO), VW-DSG, MB 7 speed/Lexus 8 speed I found were pretty sweet. If anything these autos shift faster than me manually possible haha I like being able to just put the pedal to the medal and go lol :burnout:

Perhaps I can interest you in a 6 speed NSX. You would be the only 05 in the City haha :D

you actually might interest me. When you get bored, i'd be willing to take it off your hands ;)

but i swear to god. if its auto... i'm gonna smack you in the face when i see you next...

[Aleks]

Got sick of manuals in rush hour
Auto is more relaxing, smoother
Sport mode, manual mode still there so I can tell the car what gear to be in. Don't feel any less connected to it.
Hated the BMW manual. Only manual I'd consider driving ever again is a Honda Si/S2K type manual.
Wife can't drive manual and with a baby in the back no need to force her to learn.

[Axe]

Agree with OP. Too many sports cars are auto and in some cases auto only (458, new 911 Turbo) - Seriously?! Don't disagree that the newer auto trannies can shift faster, but part of driving a sports car is the experience and for me it needs to be a manual. Auto's in exotics benefit the lazy drivers and do not require as much skill to drive properly as a manual IMO (how many fewer posers in M3/5/6's would we have if they were manual only cars...)

I'm over 40 and wanted a sporty sedan around $40k and the only (new) manual options were a TSX and Legacy GT, so I don't necessarily agree with the "getting older and wanting and auto" and yes, I drive downtown 2-3 times per week.

As an aside, Car and Driver has a "save the manual" campaign going on right now as well...timely topic - thanks for the post and opportunity to rant

[94boosted]

Originally posted by adam c
My next car is definitely going to be auto/tip I just can't do the rush hour traffic with a manual anymore

:werd:

Especially in a car with a stiffer clutch, I get to work after my morning deerfoot commute and I am :whipped:

Dual Clutch for my next car's transmission for sure.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by in*10*se


you actually might interest me. When you get bored, i'd be willing to take it off your hands ;)

but i swear to god. if its auto... i'm gonna smack you in the face when i see you next...

LOL there are automatic NSX' out there but the car is slow as is for its price point so an auto would just be tragic lol :rofl:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Axe]

+1 for Sugarphreak

[ercchry]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
... getting stuck in traffic on a hill is always a pain; ...

not with hill assist!

[Cos]

Originally posted by adam c
My next car is definitely going to be auto/tip I just can't do the rush hour traffic with a manual anymore

+1

[Awd-Tsi]

Because they are girls and have a hard time pushing in a clutch. My leg grows a bit everytime I push mine and I'm not complaining.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by Axe
Auto's in exotics benefit the lazy drivers and do not require as much skill to drive properly as a manual IMO (how many fewer posers in M3/5/6's would we have if they were manual only cars...)


How many manual drivers can actually properly drive a manual car? My guess is maybe 10%

:dunno:

[T-Dubbs]

all the new lambos/ferraris are all paddle
no more manual trannies

i wouldnt complain.
you loose the feel , but you are in a expensive exotic car, so who really cares?
the cars are fun in their own because of what they are.
they arnt hondas or toyotas where they need a manual tranny in order keep up with traffic.

[friedn00dles]

i chose auto/tip over manual in my IS just because of heavy traffic volume. i had a civic 5spd and it was killing my left knee stopping ang going in traffic.

there is the odd time i miss driving a 5spd but not enough to endure that torture.

[rage2]

Perfect shifts everytime. There's more to the driving experience than clutching and rowing through the gears. I'm enjoying the other aspects even more.

It's like asking why people dont drive without syncros in their gearboxes. Because we can and get better performance out of it.

[JordanAndrew]

Yeah, the new automatics nowadays feels a lot smoother and are still quite fun to drive.

I test drove a G37 with auto tran and it was still really quick for what it was. It was pretty fun to drive as well. I then drove the manual version and the drive was quite similar, I actually liked the auto better since all I did was press the gas. LOL!

Just thinking about driving an even more powerful and more expensive exotics like Lambos and ferraris, that would be a dream.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

Driving a manual is becoming a lost art; anybody who doesn't know how to drive a manual and is to lazy too learn basically buys an automatic and then sits behind 10 reasons why it is better than a manual. It is worse than listening to pot heads talk about the many benefits of smoking weed.


Why do manual backers have to glorify manually pushing a gear selector while raising and lowering their left foot like it's something special?:banghead: Do you also lament the new urinals where you walk away and it flushes itself without you flicking the lever to flush? Is flushing a toilet going to be a lost art one day?

[T-Dubbs]

Originally posted by heavyD


Is flushing a toilet going to be a lost art one day?
hope so!

[Mibz]

I had this argument with my buddy not too long ago. He told me he'd never feel right having a sports car without a manual. I brought up the objective points of having a newer auto/semi-auto having never driven one myself. We agreed to disagree.

Well I got to drive a C63 for a while a few weeks later and, as awesome as it is having perfect shifts and not having to worry about shifting at all if you don't want to, I could never imagine myself owning it as a strictly fun car. If I had to own one car and one car only, it would be fantastic, but if I had a weekend or track car I'd just want it to be manual. It has nothing to do with perceived connection or skill or what. It's just more fun to me. Don't ask me to explain why and don't even try to bring objectivity into it. Fun is fun and I just plain like it.

I'm 26, I've got an auto for my DD and I'm very happy I do, but my next sports car is going to be a manual.

In the interest of full disclosure I should probably mention that I could never afford a fucking sweet car with a fancy auto though. If I could get a 997 turbo with PDK, I'd fucking do it.

[ercchry]

all depends on the use of the car...

a stripped down rwd monster for drifting... yeah manual. a daily driven new luxury sport? meh whatever... i am not going to be clutch kicking or bagging it off the rev limiter in the top of third so sure... give me some paddles

[RC-Cola]

I'll start with the fact I'm 35 (not a kid, don't think I'm an old fart yet) and own a '10 GTI.

I'd agree that in higher end sports/luxury cars they car is smarter than you (average driver) in selecting gears, holding gears and downshifting all the while doing it faster than you do move through the gear box. When I'm considering that $150k Porsche or Ferrari or C63 Black Series I'll probably get the auto - till then...

When speaking about your average daily driver, the Honda Accords, VW GTI's, BMW 3 series etc I will still disagree that the manual is out performed by the autos. When test driving my GTI last year I tried both the manual and the DSG (highly rated and reviewed auto) I couldn't believe the difference in performance and drivability. The manual puts you way more in touch with the car, the preformance of the engine and frankly while driving on icy, crappy roads, way more control of the car (again daily driver vs. track preformance). The DSG was ok, but I felt it was constantly flicking through the gears trying to find the right spot to be in. It was either holding the revs really high (5500rpms+) or really low (1500 rpms or less) while the car was trying to figure out my driving style.

Maybe my opinion would change if I worked downtown and had drive in bumper to bumper traffic, but I doubt it as I've done that drive before.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by heavyD


Why do manual backers have to glorify manually pushing a gear selector while raising and lowering their left foot like it's something special?:banghead:

You make it seem like the clutch is an ON-OFF button. Sometimes the hard things in life are the most rewarding.

I drive a 6 puck clutch straight cut tranny car in traffic every day and absolutely love it. In heavy stop and go it occasionally makes me mad, but the feeling and connection I share with the car via left foot and hand are totally worth it 99% of the time.

I briefly drove my friends dad's R8 and was not a fan of the tranny at all. Downshifting was pretty amazing but the upshifts felt really sluggish (even though I know they're fast). I preferred the M5 sport mode that kicked you in the teeth every time it shifted.

Even though the quick shifts are fun, controlling the clutch (especially in the winter) is something I would never want to get rid of.

[speedog]

Heard this on a comedy show a long, long time ago...

Real men drive automatics because real men are secure enough in their manhood to let their gears be changed for them.

[Xtrema]

The argument of manual over auto is torque converter and weight.

DSG got rid of the torque converter so you are not experiencing drivetrain loss any more.

And with 7-8-9 gears, efficiencies goes up. Instead of leaving in manual and have a shitty EPA number, manufacturers can now game the system with the new gear boxes to provide different modes. One for daily driving and EPA numbers and the other for balls out driving.

I don't miss manual one bit especially ever since traffic in Calgary become a shit show the last 10 years. Back in the days when I can drive from 64 ave to Memorial in 3mins flat during 7:15am and stay on 5th throughout. Good luck getting that done now.

Everyone should know how to drive manual. But I think technology is finally good enough to send it to pasture.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Mibz
I had this argument with my buddy not too long ago. He told me he'd never feel right having a sports car without a manual. I brought up the objective points of having a newer auto/semi-auto having never driven one myself. We agreed to disagree.

Well I got to drive a C63 for a while a few weeks later and, as awesome as it is having perfect shifts and not having to worry about shifting at all if you don't want to, I could never imagine myself owning it as a strictly fun car. If I had to own one car and one car only, it would be fantastic, but if I had a weekend or track car I'd just want it to be manual. It has nothing to do with perceived connection or skill or what. It's just more fun to me. Don't ask me to explain why and don't even try to bring objectivity into it. Fun is fun and I just plain like it.
I thought you said you never used the M mode in my car? You mentioned that when I turned on M mode when I got back into town.

I call :bullshit: on you actually using full manual mode!

[cycosis]

I like the option of switching back and forth, granted my transmission isnt near as responsive as a C63, its still fun to play around with.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I love driving a manual but I would take DSG in a heartbeat.

[Speed_69]

I hate driving automatic cars with manual mode. I find it completely takes the point away without the clutch. Whenever I drive one, I just leave it in auto mode. I don't find driving a manual in traffic that annoying any more. I did when I first learned how to drive a manual few years ago but now that it's basically second nature, it doesn't bother me at all.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by rage2

I thought you said you never used the M mode in my car? You mentioned that when I turned on M mode when I got back into town.

I call :bullshit: on you actually using full manual mode! Not sure what you're talking about. I stuck with C and S for the first day (like you told me to) and then almost exclusively used M from there. I loved the downshift growls but didn't like how when I did it in S it capped itself on whatever gear I put it in unless I tapped 'up' like 7 times (I didn't know you could hold the paddle to fix that) so I just started using M and got used to it.

Remember how I told you the first time the dash screen went red I just about shit myself?

[Abeo]

number of years back I got sick of manuals, got an auto, then got a manual, then got an auto, then got a manual...
I love the control with a manual, but hate it in traffic and icy hills, but I hate the lag time in an auto... make an auto as responsive as a snowmobile CVT and I'd like it more

I'd like to try a dual clutch auto, see if the slow speed jerkyness is anything to be worried about.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by RC-Cola
I'll start with the fact I'm 35 (not a kid, don't think I'm an old fart yet) and own a '10 GTI.

I'd agree that in higher end sports/luxury cars they car is smarter than you (average driver) in selecting gears, holding gears and downshifting all the while doing it faster than you do move through the gear box. When I'm considering that $150k Porsche or Ferrari or C63 Black Series I'll probably get the auto - till then...

When speaking about your average daily driver, the Honda Accords, VW GTI's, BMW 3 series etc I will still disagree that the manual is out performed by the autos. When test driving my GTI last year I tried both the manual and the DSG (highly rated and reviewed auto) I couldn't believe the difference in performance and drivability. The manual puts you way more in touch with the car, the preformance of the engine and frankly while driving on icy, crappy roads, way more control of the car (again daily driver vs. track preformance). The DSG was ok, but I felt it was constantly flicking through the gears trying to find the right spot to be in. It was either holding the revs really high (5500rpms+) or really low (1500 rpms or less) while the car was trying to figure out my driving style.

Maybe my opinion would change if I worked downtown and had drive in bumper to bumper traffic, but I doubt it as I've done that drive before.

Interesting POV. I found both 3 series and GTI manuals to be lacking when compared to an S2K or SI manual for example. I loved the sport mode on the DSG GTI too and the shifts were amazing at WOT. I will agree with you though that at slow cruising and bumper to bumper driving the DSG was pretty rough at times as it hunted for a proper gear in auto mode.

[x222]

I like the paddle shift myself. Not only for performance bgut also when I hit a spot on deerfoot where its a parkin lot for as far as the eye can see. Another thing I like about it is if I put on the cruise control the car will actually downshift to compensate for hills and so on.

[95teetee]

Originally posted by Awd-Tsi
Because they are girls and have a hard time pushing in a clutch. My leg grows a bit everytime I push mine and I'm not complaining. lol that's like the clutch in my Stealth- a guy who has always had old mopars drove it and said 'there's something wrong with your clutch".
I'm like 'what do you mean?"
He says "it's hard to push..."
I'm like:facepalm:

god I hate those vehicles where you push the clutch and can't feel any resistance.

Still, my 340 Duster with a built 727 launched perfectly every time, unlike (me in) my Stealth:D

[msommers]

After about 2 months of driving manual in Calgary again, I kinda wish I had gone tiptronic. Still getting used to the car after 4-5 years of driving auto, seems like the clutch is constantly changing and I have to fiddle with my seat position and foot pressure to get it really smooth.

But I really do like swinging through the gears on open road, heel-toe'ing etc. When I get to the point of having a daily and a weekend/track car, the later will more than likely be manual while the former will definitely be auto.

[Muji]

The day my wife came home from her first drive alone around town in my newish 5 series BMW, she said "the car smells funny". Funny? WTF, leather "funny"? I go outside, could smell something like cooked ham, right away I knew it was the clutch.... $1,400 later (Well we are in there let's replace this and this and that says the BMW tech).... next car was an automatic.

You pick your battles in marriage, this was not one worth the fight. Save them for something really important.

Still a great video on how to do it the right way:
klMur6TPkrM

Ayrton Senna RIP at work:
8By2AEsGAhU

[Sugarphreak]

...

[DannyO]

This is really just personal preference, I prefer a manual over anything else although have yet to drive a DSG style car, but do not like tiptronic at all, I can definitely see the benefits of a paddle shifter car due to allowing you to concentrate more on steering/throttle precision but I find no point in this unless on a track trying to beat records, I can see where people are coming from if you have to deal with rush hour traffic all the time, luckily I pretty much make my own hours.

I've thought of getting a DD paddle shifter car in the future but have to have a manual car still, close to 10 years of driving them and I'm not even close to being bored with them, I'd consider myself to be a bit of an exception though as most people love the S2k/Si shifter but I have driven both an s2k and my brother owns a new Si and I hate the clutch/shifter, feels like a hot knife through melted butter which most people want, but I prefer to feel resistance in the clutch as I find it easier to control, plus the notchy shifter in my car feels great, but once again this is just my preference.

Anyway I can get my fix of paddle shifter with my G27 wheel on my pc. :rofl:

[rizfarmer]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
These manual VS auto threads are almost as good as the Turbo VS supercharger threads!




Because it is something special, a large number of people have no idea how to drive manual. I don't know how many times people who go to take my car in for service have to get me to drive it into the bay, or others decline an offer to let them take it out for a spin just because they have no idea how to drive stick.

People love driving and being involved by contributing their own skills; if you want performance, go take an airplane... faster than any car and probably just as invigorating as a performance vehicle with a slush box.

One day soon I am sure you can kick back with a newspaper in the drivers seat and get ultra flawless performance out of your car while it drives you to work.

They have cars now that are so heavily loaded with this driver assist junk that you don't even need to know how to drive to take them on a track because it will correct all of your mistakes for you. If that is what floats you boat, all the power to you... personally I enjoy driving and would rather not dumb down any aspects of the experience.



Anyway, all this aside; more to the OP's question; I think the majority of people buying automatics tend to because they can't drive (or have forgotten) with a good old stick and clutch. I mean the other reasons mentioned are valid, but I don't think they are the driving force behind the trend.

have you spent any seat time in a car with a good auto? DSG, PDK, new AMG?

[Skyline_Addict]

PDK > *

[black13]

For winter driving manual wins hands down.

For summer driven, high end, more so luxury sports car I'd understand getting an auto though. And really most people in NA were never really taught manual driving to begin with and
it requires more focus on driving which doesn't fit well with the day-dreaming drivers here who also love to talk on their phones/put make up on/drink coffee and what-not.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Because it is something special, a large number of people have no idea how to drive manual. I don't know how many times people who go to take my car in for service have to get me to drive it into the bay, or others decline an offer to let them take it out for a spin just because they have no idea how to drive stick.

People love driving and being involved by contributing their own skills; if you want performance, go take an airplane... faster than any car and probably just as invigorating as a performance vehicle with a slush box.

One day soon I am sure you can kick back with a newspaper in the drivers seat and get ultra flawless performance out of your car while it drives you to work.

They have cars now that are so heavily loaded with this driver assist junk that you don't even need to know how to drive to take them on a track because it will correct all of your mistakes for you. If that is what floats you boat, all the power to you... personally I enjoy driving and would rather not dumb down any aspects of the experience.

Anyway, all this aside; more to the OP's question; I think the majority of people buying automatics tend to because they can't drive (or have forgotten) with a good old stick and clutch. I mean the other reasons mentioned are valid, but I don't think they are the driving force behind the trend. So back to the days that I remember when I was quite a bit younger. The days when you had to manually open and close air vents with a knob by your knee. The days when you had an actual choke knob on the dash. The days when you had to kick down the engine after it had warmed up for a bit. The days when you had to switch between low and high beams by stepping on a button on the floor. The days of no power brakes or no power steering.

Yeah, those were the days - the days when driving was definitely not dumbed down. Do I miss them - not for a minute. Technology has moved along and along with it, so have our vehicles and most likely, manual transmissions will slowly disappear into the sunset just like floor board mounted high-beam switches.

[cream]

I guess reading everyone's posts, it just depends on the car. I would rather manual but I've tried sport shifters. We ALL know that in newer cars, they can shift better, I think OP is just wondering why they're starting to take out the option. To each their own, but to older cars, it still feels nice to downgear with your hand and feel like you're in control =) VTEC

[anhsicun]

i have always drove manual since 16, but after awhile it's a hassle in gridlock traffic. now i drive a automatic, i'll probably never go back to manual unless its a fast weekend car that can rip around.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[you&me]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I had an old 320i with manual steering; best steering feedback and feel of any car I have ever driven to this very day.



No, I don't think I could afford a Mercedes AMG so I have never really taken an interest in test driving one.

What I can rely upon is some other comparisons;

When I test drove my Fit back I tried the paddle shifter VS the manual... no comparison, manual is 100 times more fun.

I also had a chance to participate in the BMW autocross even when they launched the 135i/128i... I got a chance to try out all of the transmissions and options. Again, it was no comparison, the manual is way more fun to throw around.

More recently I also test drove a whole bunch of upscale SUV's last summer... I remember out of all of them the Q5 had a pretty slick slushbox... I still bought something with a manual instead.

But that is just me, if it doesn't have a clutch pedal I don't find it as much fun to drive.

So you've only driven automatics and manuals. If you have the opportunity to, I'd suggest driving something such as the Ferrari F1, VW DSG, BMW SMG or DCT, Porsche PDK, etc. These are basically manual transmissions with a computer controlled clutch. The transmissions you've tried in the Fit, 1 Series and Q5 are all full automatics... World of difference!

[Sugarphreak]

....

[Guillermo]

Why is everyone taking such a hardline stance and making this into black and white issue? The truth is that manuals and autos are BOTH good cars to have. They both have advantages and disadvantages, and both excel at different types of driving. Do I want to be constantly working a clutch for 45 minutes as I crawl through traffic on crowfoot? No! But I sure as hell love the feel of a manual tranny when i'm taking curves on a quite road in the mountains. :dunno:

I don't see how anyone can be so against one tranny or the other...

[Abeo]

One more thing about automatics - its easier to use the brake to change the attitude of the car in corners, but how many people actually do that...

[ragu]

If you or your wife can't drive it in Calgary then you have no idea at all how to drive stick. Go to Asia and see how even girls can shift smoothly through all gears in rush hour and biggest slopes and tightest spots. You never get tired of driving stick; you either get old or you never knew how to drive stick in the first place.

[Abeo]

Originally posted by ragu
If you or your wife can't drive it in Calgary then you have no idea at all how to drive stick. Go to Asia and see how even girls can shift smoothly through all gears in rush hour and biggest slopes and tightest spots. You never get tired of driving stick; you either get old or you never knew how to drive stick in the first place.

Thats funny... I have only one asian friend who can drive stick, the rest (15 or so) drive automatic toyotas or are terrible standard drivers. Most learned to drive there before coming here

[gyu]

I would love to try out a DSG if an opportunity comes up, been hearing tons of good things about it.

And I think the reason people think the traditional manual is more fun than shift paddles has to do with it being more of a challenge. Kinda like a video game, it is more fun when it is challenging.

[DannyO]

Originally posted by speedog
Yeah, those were the days - the days when driving was definitely not dumbed down. Do I miss them - not for a minute. Technology has moved along and along with it, so have our vehicles and most likely, manual transmissions will slowly disappear into the sunset just like floor board mounted high-beam switches.

Soo true, manuals will disappear as current generations of kids grow up with autos and paddles as the norm, they will slowly die out to the point of no cars having an option of manual, this will also happen to gasoline engines, in time we will only have hybrids/electronic/hydrogen (plus whatever else they come up with) engines, gasoline engines will start becoming rarer and rarer, then we will have a lot of "enthusiasts" bitching about there not proper cars or something.

With that said I picture the supercar of the future not requiring much driver input at all and it being completely silent (excluding road noise), and it makes me a sad panda.:(

I for one will definitely hold on to a gasoline engine, just something beautiful about a metal block harnessing explosions to propel you.

[Squishy]

Originally posted by Awd-Tsi
Because they are girls and have a hard time pushing in a clutch. My leg grows a bit everytime I push mine and I'm not complaining.
Any girl that complains about their clutch shouldn't be driving manual. Although mine is stock and light, I don't complain. I actually enjoy driving standard.
I have driven subaru's with heavier clutches and eventually you get use to it.

[Vanner]

Originally posted by speedog
So back to the days that I remember when I was quite a bit younger. The days when you had to manually open and close air vents with a knob by your knee. The days when you had an actual choke knob on the dash. The days when you had to kick down the engine after it had warmed up for a bit. The days when you had to switch between low and high beams by stepping on a button on the floor. The days of no power brakes or no power steering.

Yeah, those were the days - the days when driving was definitely not dumbed down. Do I miss them - not for a minute. Technology has moved along and along with it, so have our vehicles and most likely, manual transmissions will slowly disappear into the sunset just like floor board mounted high-beam switches.


+1 ...I didn't miss these days because I still own one car that has all the features up above, plus another one coming to be restored. My first car was a '69 Dart with manual choke. I do like the floor board mounted high-beam switch ... it's a personal feeling more like that.

Right now when it come to daily driving for work and battling thru the cows on road - it's the new technology with auto trans is the best choice for me. I'm an old fart LOL. I save my manual-driven Mustang for summer seasons to rip the roads while shifting gears - it last longer that way.

As for the the new generation choosing auto ... well it's sad that they had forgotten the art of manual shifting. I first learned how to shift at age 13 in grandpa's Ford truck.

[962 kid]

So, question to the die hard manual fans (Idratherbsidewayz, in*10*se, Shugarphreak). How much time do you guys spend at Race City (or any track) driving your cars balls out? I know Awd-Tsi did his first ever track day a couple weeks ago, how about the rest of you? Do you drive a manual because it offers more control and weight savings over an automatic gearbox and it makes a huge difference because you track often? Or do you have a manual because you can drive up and down Macleod Trail heel-toeing everywhere to impress your gf, brag about superior driving dynamics on crowded public roads and condescend to people driving automatics?

Just curious

[Redlyne_mr2]

+1 for Macleod heel toeing.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by 962 kid
So, question to the die hard manual fans (Idratherbsidewayz, in*10*se, Shugarphreak). How much time do you guys spend at Race City (or any track) driving your cars balls out? I know Awd-Tsi did his first ever track day a couple weeks ago, how about the rest of you? Do you drive a manual because it offers more control and weight savings over an automatic gearbox and it makes a huge difference because you track often? Or do you have a manual because you can drive up and down Macleod Trail heel-toeing everywhere to impress your gf, brag about superior driving dynamics on crowded public roads and condescend to people driving automatics?

Just curious

Winter conditions trump your track-only argument. Ill take clutch and gearbox control ANY day over an automatic.

If we're talking about summer, then yea, I'm all about impressing everyone with my Macleod Trail heel-toe skillz...

[rage2]

Originally posted by Idratherbsidewayz
Winter conditions trump your track-only argument. Ill take clutch and gearbox control ANY day over an automatic.
Out of curiosity, can you elaborate?

I really should stay out of these threads... haha.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by rage2

Out of curiosity, can you elaborate?

I really should stay out of these threads... haha.

well good winter tires > all

buuuttt... after driving a couple rwd land yachts in winter that were auto i must say i missed having a car i could start off in second with

EDIT: oh... and locking up the rear tires is a little bit more effective with a manual, shift lock going into a nice snowy corner... i like. yeah you could use the e-brake... but that too works a bit better in a rwd car when you can cut the power going to the rear wheels with a clutch... cause tossing the car in to neutral with an auto is time consuming (not sure about the new fancy autos... more so speaking of the older ones)

[962 kid]

^^ Rage2 beat me to it :(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/michaelboulanger/miscellaneous/IMG_7003.jpg

I don't do a whole lot of winterX, but automatic seemed just fine when I was 3rd fastest in class that day.

[C4S]

Faster, quicker, better on gas, more reliable ..

You probably need extra 50-100HP in order to make the car 1/4 second quicker, but then will probably use 20% more gas ... and shorter lift ....

Don't get me wrong, I still like driving manual.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by rage2

Out of curiosity, can you elaborate?

I really should stay out of these threads... haha.

While using the clutch in this way isn't ideal for its longevity, in particularily icey conditions when brakes are ineffective and engine braking isn't enough, you can ride the clutch to slow down.

Using the clutch and throttle to initiate oversteer when a car is about to understeer allows you to safely complete a turn without flying into the first street light available.

EDIT: 3rd fastest in an automatic is impressive, but looks like you had a fair bit of gravel to work with and not too much ice. I was referring mainly to real world driving in traffic, in winter conditions.

[asifka]

Originally posted by heavyD


Why do manual backers have to glorify manually pushing a gear selector while raising and lowering their left foot like it's something special?:banghead: Do you also lament the new urinals where you walk away and it flushes itself without you flicking the lever to flush? Is flushing a toilet going to be a lost art one day?

well said:thumbsup:

[syeve]

Originally posted by Idratherbsidewayz


Winter conditions trump your track-only argument. Ill take clutch and gearbox control ANY day over an automatic.



If we are talking "sports cars"...my next one will be automatic 100%. For one reason only...it's faster. I don't need a third pedal and a shifter to feel "connected" to the road.

[boarderfatty]

I think it is all personal preference.

I started out with a highly modded talon turbo that was an auto, and thought it was fun. then bought a manual BMW M3 and have never considered an auto again for a car. All my SUV's and work trucks will be auto's but not cars.

I understand that the new Dual Clutch is very quick shifting, it still lets you have manual control over your gears, you can keep two hands on the wheel, you can pay more attention to the other aspects of driving etc. But I still prefer a manual. I daily drive my carrera through an hour of traffic each day both ways between home and school, it has a brutally stiff clutch from the factory, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. I have driven the VW DSG tranny, the BMW SMG tranny, and a handful of semi autos, and yes they can feel fun, but there is so much more to driving a manual. the feeling of a perfect heel toe brake into a corner, a smooth double clutch, and rev matching my downshifts. these are the things I live for with a manual car, granted I have to focus on them, and am not a professional driver, so its not perfect every time, but the feeling of accomplishing it on a regular basis for me far outweighs the other experiences I am giving up by not using my left leg.

To me a manual is not something that I would care for drag racing in, I would just want to mash the gas and get done, not needing to row through gears. But I also dislike drag racing, though I wont complain about a spirited sprint on a green light. I enjoy rowing through gears as much as the next manual enthusiast, but I would say my real passion is what I do is in between shifting, and that is why for now I will always chose a manual car.

The other reason I like a manual car is when driving it properly you have to focus on driving. you can't be talking on a cell phone, you cant be eating, you can't be distracted, well I guess you can, but not while driving a manual effectivley, so I also feel this makes me a better driver on my daily commute, because I am forced to pay attention to my driving and surroundings, not having the option of distraction like auto drivers.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Sugarphreak]

...

[i.RSX]

Sorry to ressurect this dead thread but I didn't want to create a new one just to ask this question and have it die after 2 responses with the answer.

Anyways, I've been reading up on cars lately and was looking at semi-automatic transmissions (tipronic, steptronic, E-gear, etc). I currently drive a standard and sometimes when I suddenly want to go fast I can downshift 3 gears - from 6th to 3rd (or 6th to 4th if I'm on the highway to avoid the engine blowing). Long story short, how do you downshift more than one gear at a time using the paddle? Do you just press the left paddle twice? Wouldn't that feel a little jerky?

[THEMONK]

And just how many F cars do you see being used as a Sunday track car? Autosticks may be quicker and easier to use when racing but they sure as hell aren't as fun for everyday use. IMO people get tired of the no clutch shifting after a day or so, put it in D and never look back, to me it's pretty much the same thing as a fad.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

One day soon I am sure you can kick back with a newspaper in the drivers seat and get ultra flawless performance out of your car while it drives you to work.


Ding. The more raw the experience, the better for myself. Life sucks when a computer does the work for you in something fun. Rowing gears is an art. Computers can create perfect pictures, you don't see artists being thrown away do you?

[Mibz]

Originally posted by i.RSX
Sorry to ressurect this dead thread but I didn't want to create a new one just to ask this question and have it die after 2 responses with the answer.

Anyways, I've been reading up on cars lately and was looking at semi-automatic transmissions (tipronic, steptronic, E-gear, etc). I currently drive a standard and sometimes when I suddenly want to go fast I can downshift 3 gears - from 6th to 3rd (or 6th to 4th if I'm on the highway to avoid the engine blowing). Long story short, how do you downshift more than one gear at a time using the paddle? Do you just press the left paddle twice? Wouldn't that feel a little jerky? Floor the gas and hold the downshift paddle. Some of them will downshift as far as they can safely go.


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
The more raw the experience, the better for myself Where do you draw the line? I bet you enjoy power steering and synchros.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by THEMONK
to me it's pretty much the same thing as a fad.

It's not a fad. How do you like to roll 8 or 9 gears? Unfortunately, with the CAFE laws coming down, companies will not be able to afford manual transmissions except the high margin cars. DSG and auto are programmable so that it can be retarded to pass CAFE and still leave a sport mode to meet enthusiast needs.

Can't do that with manual.

IMO manual will extinct in about 10 to 15 years. Probably only viable to cars that sell less than 1000 units a year.

[slinkie]

LOL at fit and old benz getting x'd...only on beyond.

also manny for life...u mad?

[THEMONK]

Originally posted by Xtrema


It's not a fad. How do you like to roll 8 or 9 gears? Unfortunately, with the CAFE laws coming down, companies will not be able to afford manual transmissions except the high margin cars. DSG and auto are programmable so that it can be retarded to pass CAFE and still leave a sport mode to meet enthusiast needs.

Can't do that with manual.

IMO manual will extinct in about 10 to 15 years. Probably only viable to cars that sell less than 1000 units a year.

I'm not saying it is a fad, unfortunately unlike a fad these things are here to stay, I'm saying the paddle shifting is like a fad because people will use it maybe when they first buy the car then soon afterwards will just put it in drive and never use the paddles again.

[redline]

I use the paddles every day, rarely use auto mode...

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Mibz


Where do you draw the line? I bet you enjoy power steering and synchros.

I hate power steering. HATE IT. It is really only necessary at low-low speeds or in vehicles like trucks. Of course, its also nice when you are doing 30km's of stage on gravel roads with mechanical diffs.

I'm on the edge about synchros. I can clutchless shift like nobodies business. However, synchros don't really dull it, you still need to work with them.

As for this guy:


Originally posted by 962 kid
^^ Rage2 beat me to it :(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/michaelboulanger/miscellaneous/IMG_7003.jpg

I don't do a whole lot of winterX, but automatic seemed just fine when I was 3rd fastest in class that day.

3rd fastest in a class with 5 people in it is not something to brag about :rofl: (cscc runs awd, rwd, fwd). I also will not make a comment about the skill level you might have been competing against ;)

[Sugarphreak]

...

[962 kid]

That was many years ago (I was 17 iirc), there were a lot more than 5 people competing :) Thanks for coming out though. Make whatever comments about driver skill you want, this guy couldn't give 2 shits about whether or not you think you're a better driver.

[Nismo_R34]

manual is awesome
I wish my soarer was manual

[Nismo_R34]

manual is awesome
I wish my soarer was manual

[Scat E46]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
There is so much side stepping around the real reason in this thread I almost thought you guys were square dancing :poosie:

So, what is the real reason?

Driving a manual is becoming a lost art; anybody who doesn't know how to drive a manual and is to lazy too learn basically buys an automatic and then sits behind 10 reasons why it is better than a manual. It is worse than listening to pot heads talk about the many benefits of smoking weed.

I know this because I did it myself when I was 16; both of my parents had automatic cars. The only reason I bought a manual car was because I was piss poor and the car I wanted (well, the one I could afford) was a manual. It was only then I saw the light and realized that driving a car with a manual transmission is a very rewarding experience.

I have never owned a car with an automatic... I can't stand driving other peoples automatic cars or rentals, they just feel sloppy and disconnected from what I want the car to do.

Sure there are some very valid points mentioned; if you are an old fart who doesn't want to shift, many cars don't get offered with a stick anymore, getting stuck in traffic on a hill is always a pain; but the above mentioned is the real reason most cars are auto today.

Sadly manual is being phased out by each generation that gets lazier than the previous. "Grog hit gas, Grog go.... Grog hit brake, Grog Stop..."... and now "Grog want to pretend to shift gears... grog hit paddle"

Only the purists go after manuals these days (not to confuse Purist with Enthusiast).

You hit the nail on the head.

+1

I love driving standard, healtoe, revmatching, and all.

I did drive a 7speed DCT 335is the other day, loved it as well, but that's got two clutches and shifting is sooo fast.

[davidI]

+ 2

Manual 4 Life. What's the fun in pushing a pedal to the floor?

[Neil4Speed]

Originally posted by Nismo_R34
manual is awesome
I wish my soarer was manual

If I recall correctly the Soarer 2.5T Autoboxes were amazing, and had better times than the manual.

[Nismo_R34]

Originally posted by Neil4Speed


If I recall correctly the Soarer 2.5T Autoboxes were amazing, and had better times than the manual.

Yes, the autos are faster but manual is just so much more fun to drive. I like being in total control of the car im driving. I dont even have traction control and I love it!

[CUG]

I see no benefit to manual other than a launch situation that just beats the shit out of drivetrain components anyhow. I used to believe the tiptronic setups to be useless and hokey bologna, but I've come to appreciate it lately, though I've only used it in a 7 speed ML550

[davidI]

Originally posted by CUG
I see no benefit to manual other than a launch situation that just beats the shit out of drivetrain components anyhow.

For me, it's just an enjoyment factor. Driving a manual makes me feel more in tune with the car and active while I'm driving. I'm always cogniscant of what the engine is doing and where I am in the RPM bands.

Perhaps the slush box is more efficient these days in many cars, but to me it makes driving nothing more than mashing on a pedal. :dunno:

[iceburns288]

The new double-clutch transmissions are simply better to drive than manuals.

Manual is definitely better to drive than conventional automatic, but just doesn't compare to DSGs.

Look at the transmission in the new 458. There's a reason Ferrari is cutting out the manual transmission, they integrate into the entire car too well to eliminate.

[vtec4life]

im positive that if all the manual drivers who have never driven a dual clutch transmission have the opportunity to do so, 90% will fall in love. the BMW 7 speed DKG is incredible. i am a manual guy at heart but it would be tough not to take the dual clutch if i had a choice.

[kvg]

I love manuals, but not on my DD. Dual clutch gear boxes incredible to drive and my next DD will probably have one. The old single clutch gear boxes sucked so bad and I would never buy one, EVER!!!

[J-D]

I much prefer automatic these days. Drive crowchild/etc in rush hour every day and tell me otherwise :p

[Graham_A_M]

With my old Z4, it had a triptronic tranny.

I liked it because I could switch it from paddle shifters, to full blown auto. (with auto, ANYBODY can drive it)

Otherwise its damn cool to flick a paddle on the steering wheel and it have it flawlessly shift for you, every time in every situation.

The only downside, was that it was heavily controlled via software, so when something was just a bit out of whack, the whole car was undrivable it seemed like.

All in all it was great, but I wish it was a lot more fool proof then it was, as I had some serious issues with it at times.
Unfortunately, to fix those said issues would have cost WELL into the $1000-$7000 range. :( :(

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by i.RSX
Anyways, I've been reading up on cars lately and was looking at semi-automatic transmissions (tipronic, steptronic, E-gear, etc). I currently drive a standard and sometimes when I suddenly want to go fast I can downshift 3 gears - from 6th to 3rd (or 6th to 4th if I'm on the highway to avoid the engine blowing). Long story short, how do you downshift more than one gear at a time using the paddle? Do you just press the left paddle twice? Wouldn't that feel a little jerky?

You'll be required to row through each gear to get to the one you want. Most modern automatic transmissions with paddle shifters and defintely DSGs will properly rev match for you. I think it's always a good thing to row through each gear, and some of those auto tranmissions shift super fast anyway.

With that being said, much of the enjoyment of my s2000 comes from it's incredibly fun manual tranmission. From an enjoyment point of view, I would always love to drive a manual transmission sports car like an s2000. From a performance point of view, by today's standards...double clutch automatic is the way to go.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
With that being said, much of the enjoyment of my s2000 comes from it's incredibly fun manual tranmission. From an enjoyment point of view, I would always love to drive a manual transmission sports car like an s2000.
If I had to own a MT car again, it would be the s2000. Simply put, it's the best MT gearbox I've ever driven.