Do you have outstanding credit card debt?

[Feruk]

So I was listening to the radio on my way to work this morning, and this idiotic DJ indicated that he believed 99% of people have credit card debt By that, he meant that 99% of people don't pay off their card every month. I don't believe that to be true at all, but I'm interested to see if at least 50% of people have outstanding credit card debt.

Now I know beyond is just for ballaz who only use credit cards because it's cool and wipe their bottom with twenty dolla billz, but let's make a poll anyway.

[Pahnda]

$1000 of debt carried over on a credit card is small? I can't think of any excuse to carry over $1 on a credit card regularly...

[Cos]

BMO offered me a 1000 towards my outstanding balance on my card if I signed up for a new card. I told the guy I didnt have a balance but if they gave me a 1000 I would sign up for the card.

Buddy had to ask his supervisor if we could do that as he had never met anyone who wanted the card who didnt have a balance.

I believe there are lots of people who carry a balance. I know of people at my work who if their monthly minimums can handle paying it (say $30) then they can afford to buy a 3k watch (or whatever)

[Feruk]

Originally posted by Pahnda
$1000 of debt carried over on a credit card is small? I can't think of any excuse to carry over $1 on a credit card regularly...

100% agreed, but I considered $1000 to be a number most working adults can easily pay off on 1 month's salary, ie small.

[Tik-Tok]

I only use my credit card for the travel rewards, and booking reservations. I use it for everything I can, and pay it off every week.

I do have a LOC with debt on it, but that's strictly for my car, and I pay into it monthly, just like a car payment.

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by Pahnda
I can't think of any excuse to carry over $1 on a credit card regularly...

That's me too. I'm a cheap ass Chinaman, so even a couple bucks of interest the following month infuriates me. Hell, I clear off my balance every other week just to be sure.

Of course, I'm one of those people who never spends outside of one's means. With the exception of a car and home, I won't buy something I can't pay off with cash then and there (though I could easily pay off the rest of my car and not think twice about where my next meal is coming from).

[G-ZUS]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz


That's me too. I'm a cheap ass Chinaman, so even a couple bucks of interest the following month infuriates me. Hell, I clear off my balance every other week just to be sure.

Of course, I'm one of those people who never spends outside of one's means. With the exception of a car and home, I won't buy something I can't pay off with cash then and there (though I could easily pay off the rest of my car and not think twice about where my next meal is coming from).

:werd:

[Canmorite]

I pay it off month to month. Student loan debt on the other hand...haha

[Tarrantula]

I.... am a bad example. I have 2 cards.. one at around 5000.. and the other around 2400 :(

I blame Saits food court.

[adam c]

I use mine for everything I can and pay it off at the end of the month

[Mitsu3000gt]

I use my CC for everything I possibly can, even a $5 purchase. I've never carried a balance either. I don't know why anyone would carry a CC balance at 18.5% when the banks hand out 5% LoC's like candy. If you don't have the money to pay it, at least borrow from the LoC to pay off the CC.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz


That's me too. I'm a cheap ass Chinaman, so even a couple bucks of interest the following month infuriates me. Hell, I clear off my balance every other week just to be sure.

Of course, I'm one of those people who never spends outside of one's means. With the exception of a car and home, I won't buy something I can't pay off with cash then and there (though I could easily pay off the rest of my car and not think twice about where my next meal is coming from).

Cheap Ass Chinaman I am.

[ericchoweg]

i just use mine for gas and parking mainly everything else gets paid for with cash and i pay off the balance every statement

[ercchry]

EDIT:^^^ i do that too, but the issue was the time i spent in school... i was not able to do that, still chipping down what i racked up then, soon it should be good and it does not increase month to month, so i feel like it is manageable.... and coming out of school with under 4k in dept, i am miles ahead of some other people.


Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
... If you don't have the money to pay it, at least borrow from the LoC to pay off the CC.

i know someone who did this.... and then filled both the LOC and the CC over time :rofl:

[thrasher22]

I only ever really use mine for large purchases like flights and stuff, so it varies from <$1000 to close to 3000 pretty frequently.
I could pay it down to zero tonight if I wanted to, so I'm not that worried about it. :dunno:

[Tomaz]

I guess I am a bad example...

Overdraft on my card >$5000, been that way for a about a year. :cry:

I have always learned my lessons the hard way. :poosie:

[dj_rice]

I recently got a credit card 4 months ago to gain credit, but I pay off my whole balance every month, is this recommended or should I just pay the minimum?

[Cos]

Originally posted by dj_rice
I recently got a credit card 4 months ago to gain credit, but I pay off my whole balance every month, is this recommended or should I just pay the minimum?

Pay it off. Making your payments is all they are reporting on.

Only suggestion I have is to wait until you get the invoice THEN pay it off.

[cet]

I carried a pretty large ballance for a long time. I worked really hard to pay it off and now make sure I don't carry one off. Thinking of all the money I wasted in interest over the years kills me.

[Xtrema]

And really people, there is no point for credit debt. I'm sure anyone with a job can get a LOC at prime +2-4% which beats CC's 20%+.

If you need to carry the debt longer than 30days, LOC is much cheaper.

[AndyL]

I'm carrying a 20$ balance on each of my credit cards... Recommended by the credit specialists we've been dealing with... Bad enough I've gotten 2 credit cards in 6 months, and both now have raised my limits without asking - just get a statement and there's more available...

Unfortunately I learned the hard way in the mid 90s, got into lots of trouble after the banks kept giving me credit cards / locs / loans... Then terms of employment changed and I went from making stupid $ to near minimum wage... So I've been a cash man since - of course that makes life suck when you want mortgages and stuff...

[codetrap]

Thanks for reminding me. *pays off credit card*

I like the zero balance on the card.

[Zero102]

Last statement balance: $4048
Last payment: $4060

Balance? -$12 :D

No that is not normal monthly spending, we were doing some renos on our income property. Normally we run our card up to ~$500-$600 each month by putting all of the required things on it (gas, groceries), then pay it off in full so we can collect the air miles. Every year we cash those in for ~$200-$250 worth of gift cards.

[Cos]

Originally posted by Zero102
Last statement balance: $4048
Last payment: $4060

Balance? -$12 :D

No that is not normal monthly spending, we were doing some renos on our income property. Normally we run our card up to ~$500-$600 each month by putting all of the required things on it (gas, groceries), then pay it off in full so we can collect the air miles. Every year we cash those in for ~$200-$250 worth of gift cards.

why did you go negative?

[dsr7723]

Originally posted by dj_rice
I recently got a credit card 4 months ago to gain credit, but I pay off my whole balance every month, is this recommended or should I just pay the minimum?

That's what I been doing for a couple years now. My score is still just under 700 which is complete bullshit considering my total debt is only around 11 G's right now. No bankruptcy, no LOC, no mortgage. I think you're better off carrying a bit of a balance and letting the credit card companies make money off you or else they don't seem to wanna do a damn thing for you to help you get ahead.

[Super_Geo]

I've been carrying $10,000 on my Mastercard for the past 3 months now... but the interest is 0.99%/year ;)

[kaput]

.

[Cos]

Originally posted by kaput


4048-4060=-12

thanks..... I more meant why didnt he pay off 4048

[kaput]

.

[Zero102]

Usually by the time I get the bill I have spent some more money on the card, so I typically just round up a bit so the next bill is slightly smaller. In this case, I was trying to make a nice round number in my bank account, so I over-paid by $12.

[Zero102]

Originally posted by dsr7723


That's what I been doing for a couple years now. My score is still just under 700 which is complete bullshit considering my total debt is only around 11 G's right now. No bankruptcy, no LOC, no mortgage. I think you're better off carrying a bit of a balance and letting the credit card companies make money off you or else they don't seem to wanna do a damn thing for you to help you get ahead.

I just went through the whole credit check process.
My wife and I have a mortgage on a house in BC, currently at 81% of the houses's value on which we have never missed a payment. We have 1 credit card for ~$10k, and an empty LOC for $10k. We barely ever used the LOC, and we paid off our credit card every month since we got it. I am 25, and have had credit cards (all used without ever carrying a balance) since I was 18, and my credit score was 787.

Seems you can get a good credit score even when you pay everything off each month. The only things that hurt my score were that we had moved from calgary to vernon in 2006, then back in 2008, and I had an unstable employment history because I was finishing up university.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Ive had a credit card for about 20 months now with a $1000 limit. September this year was the only time I couldnt pay off the whole balance, I made the minimum payment well before the due date, then the full payment 2 days after the due date. How much do you think that affected my credit?

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
Ive had a credit card for about 20 months now with a $1000 balance. September this year was the only time I couldnt pay off the whole balance, I made the minimum payment well before the due date, then the full payment 2 days after the due date. How much do you think that affected my credit?

ZERO

[broken_legs]

Things that affect your credit score are
- missed payments (ie missing scheduled payments and getting sent to collections)
- Carrying a high ratio balance (ie more than 40% of your total credit ((iiee $8000 on a $10,000 card)))
- Opening new credit accounts (signing up for new cards in the mall to get a free pen light)
- Credit Bureau Hits (Allowing a bank or other company to search your credit rating)


To all of you who use your credit card to pay for everything to get points:
Thanks for making everything I buy more expensive. I enjoy paying for your vacations :banghead:

[Mibz]

Originally posted by broken_legs
To all of you who use your credit card to pay for everything to get points:
Thanks for making everything I buy more expensive. I enjoy paying for your vacations :banghead: You can complain or you can do the same thing. Seems like a clear choice to me.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Mibz
You can complain or you can do the same thing. Seems like a clear choice to me.

Not everyone is cool with the government, credit card company, and bank seeing exactly what, when and where you spend your money.

One day when you can't buy anything with hard currency anymore you might regret your lazy attitude.

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by broken_legs
- Carrying a high ratio balance (ie more than 40% of your total credit ((iiee $8000 on a $10,000 card)))

Is it 40% of your total credit, or over 40% on any given card? I'm using $10k out of $15k on my Mastercard (67%), but I don't carry any other balances forward and and I have about $30k total available credit on cards (30%).


Originally posted by broken_legs
To all of you who use your credit card to pay for everything to get points:
Thanks for making everything I buy more expensive. I enjoy paying for your vacations :banghead:

Why don't you use credit cards as well then? The CC company the merchant 2% (or 3% if you're with AMEX) and will usually give you at least 1% back.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by broken_legs

To all of you who use your credit card to pay for everything to get points:
Thanks for making everything I buy more expensive. I enjoy paying for your vacations :banghead:

You're welcome, and thank you for subsidizing my vacations by insisting on being the rebel without a clue and nonconformist who refuses to join such programs because they don't want to be in "the system"

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Super_Geo


Is it 40% of your total credit, or over 40% on any given card? I'm using $10k out of $15k on my Mastercard (67%), but I don't carry any other balances forward and and I have about $30k total available credit on cards (30%).


The actual numbers are a closely guarded secret - the banks don't want you to know how to control your own credit score. You can go high ratio on a single account & total credit.


[/b]
Why don't you use credit cards as well then? The CC company the merchant 2% (or 3% if you're with AMEX) and will usually give you at least 1% back. [/B]

Before credit cards became common place, people used cash.

A retailer would mark up his products and make X amount of markup as profit.

Then CC companies started to push their product out. Visa, MC, AMEX, make their money of transaction fees - Not lending money. The Bank lends you money. All the CC companies do is provide a "name" or a system that can be used for transactions to the credit account with your bank.

So now retailers have to pay the transaction fees, and they raise the prices of all goods - therefor punishing people who use CASH - to buy things.

I believe that VISA/MC/AMEX is not necessary. your credit can be accessed directly from the bank - just like on your ATM card, Choose savings, chequings or credit. There is absolutely no need to have a parasitic company charging 2-3% on the transactions to the retailer.

IF people still want to have the "luxury" of using the name of VISA, or MC - They can pay the damn 2-3% themselves, that way the people who buy shit with their own money don't have to subsidize your crappy 1.5% reward programs.

/end rant

[Sapo]

Originally posted by adam c
I use mine for everything I can and pay it off at the end of the month

+1

[ICEBERG]

I carry about $25,000 credit dedt right now. I usually pay it off in couple months though. It is for my business most of the time. Most of the time Wife goes crazy. I have about $200,000 In credit limit on my cards.:D

Favorite card of mine since 1990 is my American Express.:thumbsup:

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by broken_legs
To all of you who use your credit card to pay for everything to get points:
Thanks for making everything I buy more expensive. I enjoy paying for your vacations :banghead: [/B]

Thanks Pal,

You covered me on flights to Miami (and the girlfriend) as well as a $700USD night room for 8 days. Thinking of trying California next year :rofl:

I should also thank you for the Ping G15 driver in my golf bag.

[ICEBERG]

I want one of these, but no go yet...:D :D :D

http://www.geocities.jp/ctwxg845/centurioncard/chartermembercard.JPG

:bigpimp: :bigpimp:

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing


Thanks Pal,

You covered me on flights to Miami (and the girlfriend) as well as a $700USD night room for 8 days. Thinking of trying California next year :rofl:

I should also thank you for the Ping G15 driver in my golf bag.

You do realize that everything YOU buy is 2-3% more expensive and you aren't actually gaining anything right?

[adam c]

Originally posted by broken_legs


You do realize that everything YOU buy is 2-3% more expensive and you aren't actually gaining anything right?

unless you're buying chinese food or a car then the 2-3% means nothing since retailers don't give you a cheaper price for cash vs credit

[EK 2.0]

I use my credit cards like debit cards haha...but all get paid off at statement time...

[Team_Mclaren]

I also use my credit card on absolutely everything. From just a coffee to other big purchases. Pay it off every month and use it to control my spending.



Originally posted by broken_legs



To all of you who use your credit card to pay for everything to get points:
Thanks for making everything I buy more expensive. I enjoy paying for your vacations :banghead:

http://www.marketmanila.com/images/aaelitist1.JPG

btw: using credit card allows you to pay it more than a month later. Which makes things easier for some. Especially when a sale is on:rofl:

[MaxxLee]

Originally posted by Xtrema
And really people, there is no point for credit debt. I'm sure anyone with a job can get a LOC at prime +2-4% which beats CC's 20%+.

If you need to carry the debt longer than 30days, LOC is much cheaper.
Whats LOC?

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by MaxxLee

Whats LOC?

Line of Credit....

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by adam c


unless you're buying chinese food or a car then the 2-3% means nothing since retailers don't give you a cheaper price for cash vs credit

No they just raise the price for everyone to cover the increased cost of accepting CCs as payment. That's the whole point. Credit Cards make EVERYTHING more expensive for EVERYONE.

[adam c]

Originally posted by broken_legs


No they just raise the price for everyone to cover the increased cost of accepting CCs as payment. That's the whole point. Credit Cards make EVERYTHING more expensive for EVERYONE.

and what are you going to do about it.. seriously

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by adam c


and what are you going to do about it.. seriously

I will create an alternative that works like interact, where consumers can choose credit and have their purchases come directly out of their credit accounts, thus eliminating the need for a 3rd party parasitic company that charges an additional 2-3% ie VISA, MC & AMEX

Then this new idea will go start to catch on as people realize they can save money on transaction fees by using it.

Then the CC companies will pay off some government officials via lobbyists and they will pass legislation banning my new system to preserve their monopoly.

You won't even notice and will continue to be happy to line the pockets of middle men for providing you absolutely nothing.

I will die old and lonely.

[adam c]

no it will never work like that, the retails will just keep the 2-3% markup and pocket the rest, there will be no way in hell a retailer will cut the price of things when people won't even notice

it's free money for them

[85regal]

i do agree majority of people live on credit cards, line of credit, finance cars..whatever..i have 0 on credit cards, 0 on line of credit, pay for cars with cash, good start to retirement fund, i may not have the nicest car, tv, or whatever..but i actually own it all, my extra goes to savings, not interest or paying off something i couldnt afford to begin with. mortgage i cant get away from.....

excuse the language..but from a movie....most people are nigger rich..its all show

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by broken_legs


You do realize that everything YOU buy is 2-3% more expensive and you aren't actually gaining anything right?

Not quite champ. Few things you're missing

- I received 25,000 bonus points for signing up for a new card. The yearly charge of $135 was waved as a result of my other accounts with the bank for two years.

- 90% of the items charged to this account are work related (Client meals, staff meals, car rentals, hotel rentals, flights, etc). The remaining 10% are normal costs.

- When I incur a charge, my work reimburses me within the week yet the bank requires payment within one month. That means I get to take advantage of both the time value of money and interest on the funds owed to the bank for for a period of roughly three weeks

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by broken_legs


I will create an alternative that works like interact, where consumers can choose credit and have their purchases come directly out of their credit accounts, thus eliminating the need for a 3rd party parasitic company that charges an additional 2-3% ie VISA, MC &amp; AMEX



You just developed a system thats already exist.... its called credit card.... even a LOC is linked to a credit card genius ... thats essentially exactly what you are "developing"

how are you gonna make money on such system? outta your ass?

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing


Not quite champ. Few things you're missing


What he's getting at is that business's get charged 2-3% per transaction for the "benefit" of having the honour of using Visa, Mastercard, etc. They pass this cost onto the customer in 99.9% of the case. (very few business's give discounts for using cash these days, but Chinese Food seems to be the exception).

So in effect you are paying for those trips anyways, but they like to disguise it as "rewards"

If broken legs didn't have his beef against "the system" he'd realize that he too could be reclaiming his lost 2-3% with the "travel benefit rewards" programs, but instead he'll just whine about it, and continue to lose that 2-3% completely by paying cash.

[Rat Fink]

.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by 85regal
i do agree majority of people live on credit cards, line of credit, finance cars..whatever..i have 0 on credit cards, 0 on line of credit, pay for cars with cash, good start to retirement fund, i may not have the nicest car, tv, or whatever..but i actually own it all, my extra goes to savings, not interest or paying off something i couldnt afford to begin with. mortgage i cant get away from.....

excuse the language..but from a movie....most people are nigger rich..its all show

umm... do you know what investing is? or how it works? i have family members that could go out and buy any car they want cash... do they? no.... why? well it is simple, why the hell would you?

you take that cash, and invest it. you go to the bank for the money for the car, they charge you lets say 3% on that money... hell maybe even less... that cash you had? lets say your return is something modest... like 6%. guess what? you made money... off the bank!

[Dumbass17]

i wish i didn't see this thread

my credit card is at about $1500 and killing me. (i also like having 0 balance on it)

i'm in aus right now and i sort of forgot about my credit card while i used it a few times on this trip, next thing i know, BAM, $1500 haha

[Sugarphreak]

...

[msommers]

I've had a VISA for over 7 years now and those fuckers haven't seen a cent of interest from me.

I've never understand how people get caught up with it. Most credit cards are 20+%. The shear thought of paying that is insanity. After the first month or two where you can't pay off the full amount, you'd think you'd clue in to cut back and pay the thing off. Everyone's got their excuses I suppose.

I just signed up for a new card where it's the 2% back on groceries etc and 1% on everything; got the annual fee waived as well which is nice. I use it everywhere that will take it.

And an FYI about 1% cashbacks with no fees, the cashback sucks balls. It's tier'd and you have to spend quite a bit for it to be useful.

[Canucks3322]

^ some of you are probably just fucking rich spoiled kids who lived at home well into their 20's...try moving out when you're 18 and having to pay for University too and then come back and brag about how stupid people are for racking up credit card debt. :rolleyes:

[Pahnda]

Originally posted by Canucks3322
^ some of you are probably just fucking rich spoiled kids who lived at home well into their 20's...try moving out when you're 18 and having to pay for University too and then come back and brag about how stupid people are for racking up credit card debt. :rolleyes:

I moved out at 18 (parents live 2 hours out of Calgary), paid for everything myself with the exception of a cellphone on a basic plan. Graduated with over $25,000 in LOC debt and about 9k in student loans and paid it off in under a year and I never carried over credit card debt during my time as a student.

I just busted my ass working summers and studying to get scholarships.

I still think it's dumb racking up credit card debt. :dunno:

[msommers]

Wouldn't an LOC be a much smarter option than a 20+% credit card? In addition, student loans are available + scholarships + bursaries.

You're right, I didn't move out at 18 and go to university at the same time. However I do know people who have done it and aren't burdened by excessive credit card debt. Students wanna live a lavish lifestyle? Be my fucking guest. Not everyone who comes out of university and not living at home is absolutely swamped with credit card debt. Student loans? Yes, it happens. Paying the minimum 20 bucks/month or whatever? That is stupid.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


You just developed a system thats already exist.... its called credit card.... even a LOC is linked to a credit card genius ... thats essentially exactly what you are &quot;developing&quot;

how are you gonna make money on such system? outta your ass?

I think you need to go educate yourself on how credit cards actually work.

So how does interact make money then Genius?

:rolleyes:

It's really amazing how defensive and hostile you people are getting in defense of some private enterprise screwing you out of your money for providing ZERO benefit to you.




Originally posted by Chandler_Racing


Not quite champ. Few things you're missing

- I received 25,000 bonus points for signing up for a new card. The yearly charge of $135 was waved as a result of my other accounts with the bank for two years.

- 90% of the items charged to this account are work related (Client meals, staff meals, car rentals, hotel rentals, flights, etc). The remaining 10% are normal costs.

- When I incur a charge, my work reimburses me within the week yet the bank requires payment within one month. That means I get to take advantage of both the time value of money and interest on the funds owed to the bank for for a period of roughly three weeks


So where exactly in this post are you disputing that everything you buy is 2-3% more expensive? You can't disagree with something I said then post 3 totally unrelated points.

- You had the fee waived. You and every single other credit card holder. Congratulations.
- You charged a bunch of stuff to work and it cost 2-3% more than it would have if those retailers werent marking things up to pay for teh transaction cost of your credit card. Again why are you telling me this?
- You pointed out that the BANK gives you interest free period of 21 days. What does this have to do witha company charging money for transactions? VISA DOES NOT GIVE YOU CREDIT.



Finally - for the record - I have a CC belonging to the major 3, and I book "free" travel multiple times per year.

The only difference between y'all and myself is I also write letters to parliament and post threads and talk to people about how credit card companies are screwing everyone.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Broken_Legs, thanks for subsiding my cashback!


No problemo dude. But you need to realize that you subsidize your own cashback too.

[Goodfella]

I also aree with Canucks3322. Contrary to popular belief carrying a little bit of balance on a credit card is not that detrimental hah its better than having no credit.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


What do you mean tier'd? Certain types only offer it on set amounts?

Mine is 1% on everything with no limit on the cashback.

It's specific to the no-fee credit cards, at least with Scotia. I can't remember the exact amounts, but it's like 0.25% back on the first 1500, then 0.5% back on the next 1500, then finally 1% after that. So depending on your use I suppose it could be worthwhile.

Because you mentioned annual fees were being waived, I don't see this being the case for you, specifically.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[msommers]

Originally posted by broken_legs
So how does interact make money then Genius?

:rolleyes:

It's really amazing how defensive and hostile you people are getting in defense of some private enterprise screwing you out of your money for providing ZERO benefit to you.

I can't tell the tone on here but it seems like you're suggesting that Interac doesn't charge usage fees like credit card companies? Or is that wrong?

Not necessarily zero benefit. I no longer have to carry cash and coins anymore unless I need to (ie: beyond deals, car wash etc) which is extremely convenient for me.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


If it is there and you are going to pay for it anyway, why not take it?

Principle.

Privacy.


When I pay cash on things that are nobodys business but my own, I pay 2-3% more because of CC Companies.

When I use my CC, I pay 2-3% on the total purchase price when I could only be paying a transaction based fee like interact - ie $0.35 per transaction and have it come directly out of a line of credit at my bank.


The point is - VISA, MC, AMEX offer no value. They are parasites sucking in money on every transaction. Imagine if your corporate profits were 2-3% of the EVERY SINGLE RETAIL TRANSACTION IN THE WORLD.

What exactly does VISA, MC, AMEX do that Interact doesnt? They don't provide youa line fo credit, they only provide the "system" - Which already exists and for much cheaper.

"Travel insurance" , "Auto Insurance", "PUrchase insurance" etc... All of which can be purchased for much cheaper than the 2-3% of every single one of your transactions.

I posted a thread somewhere about this a few months back on how Visa and MC are trying to get into the DEBIT transaction market in Canada like they are int he states - That means more erosion of retailer margin, means higher prices for all of us - and for what? There is no benefit.

Say no to CC Companies.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by broken_legs
So where exactly in this post are you disputing that everything you buy is 2-3% more expensive? You can't disagree with something I said then post 3 totally unrelated points.

Think about the big picture! In the event I charge $5,000 per month for work expenses, I'll give you a simple example.

May 1 - Charged 5,000 for hotel charges.

May 3rd - Receive $5,000 from my work.

May 3rd - Invest $5,000 at 3% till May 24th~

May 24th - Move initial $5,000 to pay for visa charges before the end of the grace period

May 24th - Collect $8.70 in interest and 5,000 bonus rewards and redeem 5,000 points for $45. Total gain for me $53.70. Now, I take my initial 25,000 points gifted and purchase a $200 gift card. Just enough to purchase a G15 driver on sale!

My employer does cover the built in fees, not ME as you seemed to feel was happening. Now as mentioned in my previous post 10% of purchases relate to things I purchase for personal reasons $500 ($5,000 *10%). Now take the 3% x 500 = $15 of interest I actually incur (less 500 reward points which I am to lazy to calculate the value of). So, they might be screwing you but that ain't screwing me.



The only difference between y'all and myself is I also write letters to parliament and post threads and talk to people about how credit card companies are screwing everyone. [/B]

Shit, you whine a lot.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


haha if you did that you could probably hire Morgan Freeman to do a voice over on your commercial... wait a second

It isn't that I don't agree, it is that credit cards fill a necessity in modern day consumer life that debit cannot.

First is the ability to do pre-authorizations, second is it can be used as a way to secure payments (such as when booking at a hotel), third is it does offer an enhanced level of user confidence. For instant if you buy something from a company and they go belly up next week... unlike debit or cash you can get your money back easily if you used a credit card.

These are the main reasons I have mine, cashback is just a way to recoup some of the markup.

True. All reasons why I use a CC... But

imagine if we used the Interact System to do CREDIT transactions directly linked to your LOC at the bank. Instead of being charged 300$ on a 10k transaction, the retailer would only pay 35cents.

BAM - I just saved consumers 75 billion dollars this year. Your're welcome. ;)

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing


Think about the big picture! In the event I charge $5,000 per month for work expenses, I'll give you a simple example.

May 1 - Charged 5,000 for hotel charges.

May 3rd - Receive $5,000 from my work.

May 3rd - Invest $5,000 at 3% till May 24th~

May 24th - Move initial $5,000 to pay for visa charges before the end of the grace period

May 24th - Collect $8.70 in interest and 5,000 bonus rewards and redeem 5,000 points for $45. Total gain for me $53.70. Now, I take my initial 25,000 points gifted and purchase a $200 gift card. Just enough to purchase a G15 driver on sale!

My employer does cover the built in fees, not ME as you seemed to feel was happening. Now as mentioned in my previous post 10% of purchases relate to things I purchase for personal reasons $500 ($5,000 *10%). Now take the 3% x 500 = $15 of interest I actually incur (less 500 reward points which I am to lazy to calculate the value of). So, they might be screwing you but that ain't screwing me.



Shit, you whine a lot.

You're getting pretty fancy by posting up a bunch of details about whatever you do with your work expenses, but you still aren't refuting anything I said.

Everything you buy costs more because of credit cards. That is a fact.
No one cares that you invest money (like you actually buy a CD or invest in fantasy 3% MM funds LOL :rolleyes: ) for 3 weeks every month...

By the way - You could still do the exact same thing with credit extended from the bank on a cheaper system, that doesnt have a parasite company sucking in 2-3% on every transaction.

Shit, you are stupid.

[Jlude]

Got rid of all my CCs when I moved to the US... then when I came back, never bothered to get one. Just over two years now without a cc. I pay cash for everything.

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by broken_legs


You're getting pretty fancy by posting up a bunch of details about whatever you do with your work expenses, but you still aren't refuting anything I said.

To quote you: "You do realize that everything YOU buy is 2-3% more expensive and you aren't actually gaining anything right?"

My initial benefit is $53.70 and I incur built in fees of $15 using my simplified example. That's a net gain of $38.70.

Is there a surcharge built into the transaction. YES! However, the net benefit flows to me. Not to mention on travel, I receive 25% bonus points which adds up quick, I left that out to simplify things.




No one cares that you invest money (like you actually buy a CD or invest in fantasy 3% MM funds LOL :rolleyes: ) for 3 weeks every month...

In the event I travel a significant portion of the month, I do. I spread investments between stocks, options, high interest savings, etc.

You`re also missing out on other benefits such as free insurance, extended warranty, and vendor charge backs for fraud.


Shit, you are stupid.

I'm curious what you do for an occupation.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing


To quote you: &quot;You do realize that everything YOU buy is 2-3% more expensive and you aren't actually gaining anything right?&quot;


on the 10% of transactions you pay 2-3% premium on our goods. You do not receive 2-3% in benefits from any of your calculations. Your 'special' arrangement with your work is irrelevant.



My initial benefit is $53.70 and I incur built in fees of $15 using my simplified example. That's a net gain of $38.70.


Lets try your math again...

5000$ expenses @ 3% VISA transaction fees to retailers = $150 fee you just paid.

You get 2% cashback (not likely but for the purpose of this demonstration you will). So you receive $100 back.

You have 3 weeks to invest this money for an additional gain (this is has nothing to do with anything in regards to transacation fees or visa, or anythign but I will humor you becaue you cant seem to get past this). So you you put in 5000 @ 3% in a CD (which doesn't actually exist in real life, but in your fantasy investing world we'll say it does to humor you again). So you put in $5000 @ 3% for 3 weeks, you earn a total of $8.65.

You have now received 108.65 in fantasy land, while in the real world have still paid 150$ in transaction fees.



Is there a surcharge built into the transaction. YES! However, the net benefit flows to me. Not to mention on travel, I receive 25% bonus points which adds up quick, I left that out to simplify things.


The net cost of the transaction is being paid by your job which is irrelevant. you still cannot and are not refuting that everything you buy costs more - even with your so called net benefits.



In the event I travel a significant portion of the month, I do. I spread investments between stocks, options, high interest savings, etc.

You`re also missing out on other benefits such as free insurance, extended warranty, and vendor charge backs for fraud.

Those are the only "real" tangible benefits. They can be purchased through insurance companies for much cheaper than 2-3% of every single transaction. I dont have exact figures, but assume it's close to the monthly fee that you are having waived.



I'm curious what you do for an occupation.

I'm officially between jobs :)

[KRZY403]

Just curious broken, where are you getting this 2 to 3% number from?

[Scuderia]

Originally posted by broken_legs


Principle.

Privacy.


When I pay cash on things that are nobodys business but my own, I pay 2-3% more because of CC Companies.

When I use my CC, I pay 2-3% on the total purchase price when I could only be paying a transaction based fee like interact - ie $0.35 per transaction and have it come directly out of a line of credit at my bank.


The point is - VISA, MC, AMEX offer no value. They are parasites sucking in money on every transaction. Imagine if your corporate profits were 2-3% of the EVERY SINGLE RETAIL TRANSACTION IN THE WORLD.

What exactly does VISA, MC, AMEX do that Interact doesnt? They don't provide youa line fo credit, they only provide the &quot;system&quot; - Which already exists and for much cheaper.

&quot;Travel insurance&quot; , &quot;Auto Insurance&quot;, &quot;PUrchase insurance&quot; etc... All of which can be purchased for much cheaper than the 2-3% of every single one of your transactions.

I posted a thread somewhere about this a few months back on how Visa and MC are trying to get into the DEBIT transaction market in Canada like they are int he states - That means more erosion of retailer margin, means higher prices for all of us - and for what? There is no benefit.

Say no to CC Companies.

Exactly. It's about the principle. People buy into the stupid shit CC companies push onto consumers when they can't even justify a single benefit of having one. Why would I pay a credit card company to use my own money, when I can do the same using interac and avoiding the stupid high fee that CC's charge. LOL at the people claiming cash back rewards, waived fee's, insurance, etc. Everybody gets their fee waived. Don't get excited when yours gets waived too. CC companies basically charge an insanely high amount because you're either too lazy to use cash, or you're buying into the useless rewards they offer. With that being said, I only use them to build credit. If there was an easier way to do it, I would throw out my CC's in a heartbeat.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Scuderia


Exactly. It's about the principle. People buy into the stupid shit CC companies push onto consumers when they can't even justify a single benefit of having one. Why would I pay a credit card company to use my own money, when I can do the same using interac and avoiding the stupid high fee that CC's charge. LOL at the people claiming cash back rewards, waived fee's, insurance, etc. Everybody gets their fee waived. Don't get excited when yours gets waived too. CC companies basically charge an insanely high amount because you're either too lazy to use cash, or you're buying into the useless rewards they offer. With that being said, I only use them to build credit. If there was an easier way to do it, I would throw out my CC's in a heartbeat.

There's literally hundreds of 0 fee low interest credit cards out there. There's also hundreds of different types of reward cards that aren't useless. Case in point, my PC Financial Mastercard. We made the decision to start running all our purchases through it instead of debit. The reason was the PC points. Now, EVERY SINGLE MONTH, I get roughly $80-$100 off my groceries. Simply for running the money through the MC, vs the debit card. No fee's. No additional cost. Personally, I don't think groceries are useless...

Another single benefit..

I can go anywhere in the world (pretty much) and pay for anything using my mastercard or visa, and not have to worry about carrying travellers cheques, or the local currency. Don't have to worry about looking for an ATM, or a bank. I can just whip out my card and pay and not worry "does this little restaurant in Greece recognize my little bank card from calgary? Will they accept my cheque? Do I have enough local currency on me?"

Yet another benefit of credit vs interac...

They're instant access to a large pool of cash should I need it for an emergency. If I crash my rental bike in Las Vegas, or have to buy emergency services in Cuba (which happened to me) I have the access to more money than I happen to have sitting in my chequing account.

As for raving against "more expensive to live because of cc companies".. well.. You might as well rail against the wind for all the good it's going to do. They're here. They're a part of life. Deal with it.

[Cos]

Originally posted by Canucks3322
^ some of you are probably just fucking rich spoiled kids who lived at home well into their 20's...try moving out when you're 18 and having to pay for University too and then come back and brag about how stupid people are for racking up credit card debt. :rolleyes:


Bahaha okay whatever buddy. Both my parents are teachers (not exactly a well paid profession). They graduated at 30 and I have siblings. I got fuck all for help from them (except my dad gave me his 1982 Celica when I turned 16). I am not resentful they just couldnt afford to help with child support, student loans, etc.

I moved out with my girlfriend at 18. Lived across the street from SAIT. Went to SAIT and worked 3 - 11 at Starbucks on 16th ave and Saturdays drafting at an engineering firm downtown. For my 19th birthday my parents gave me $1000.00 to go towards school.

I currently have a mortgage and a truck loan. That is it.

By the way I am 24

[Abeo]

Originally posted by Scuderia


Exactly. It's about the principle. People buy into the stupid shit CC companies push onto consumers when they can't even justify a single benefit of having one. Why would I pay a credit card company to use my own money, when I can do the same using interac and avoiding the stupid high fee that CC's charge. LOL at the people claiming cash back rewards, waived fee's, insurance, etc. Everybody gets their fee waived. Don't get excited when yours gets waived too. CC companies basically charge an insanely high amount because you're either too lazy to use cash, or you're buying into the useless rewards they offer. With that being said, I only use them to build credit. If there was an easier way to do it, I would throw out my CC's in a heartbeat.

I don't pay any money to either of my credit cards, one I have in case the other gets compromised (has happened), the other I have for airmiles and car rental/travelers insurance (both redundant, but nice to have). Both are zero fee cards; as long as I pay off the monthly bill I pay nothing at all, ever. Makes more sense to use a credit card than debit, where I get charged $1.50 for some transactions (by law credit card companies can't charge fees to access your credit). I couldn't imagine ordering anything from the states without a credit card, either...
I had a debit card compromised years back, it was a huge hassle getting everything straightened out and I didn't have a credit card at the time, so it was an incredible inconvenience. With the credit card, they give me a call asking what my last purchase was, then send out a new card... no fight, no hassle.

So, added convenience, better consumer protection, more benefits, and costs less than a debit card (as long as I pay it off). Why wouldn't I have a credit card? (aside from data mining/marketing)

[06civic]

Do you guys realize that the visa fees gets charged to the merchant not the consumer. Sure merchants may pass that fee onto the consumer by marking up the price. But the price is marked up already, so it doesnt make much of a difference on whether ur paying cash or visa

[Cos]

Originally posted by 06civic
Do you guys realize that the visa fees gets charged to the merchant not the consumer. Sure merchants may pass that fee onto the consumer by marking up the price. But the price is marked up already, so it doesnt make much of a difference on whether ur paying cash or visa

You should read the last 2 pages with Broken Legs' posts

[msommers]

I think someone already mentioned this point but I'm going to say it again. If all the credit cards in the world were suddenly terminated, do you think the prices you see today would come down to compensate for that?

Not. A. Chance.

It's like cell phone companies that couldn't charge that access fee anymore. Instead their new plans are $5 more :rofl:

In principle it has come to this and I suppose we are all "paying for it dearly," but I don't see any way to reverse it. If you can add all the benefits of a credit card to a debit card that charges the same amount per transcaction, I'd love to hear it. The only way I foresee something like that being even feasible would be having cards with insanely (even higher) interest rates than we see today to compensate. Bankruptcy rates would likely increase as a consequence.

For a new system to work, new machines, cards, networking and infrastructure need to be made and setup. Who is gonna pay for that and how?

Curious.

[almerick]

I have a student card with a limit of $1000 and they've tried numerous times to increase my credit limit. I tend to over pay my credit card every time since they locked me out of my online banking and they don't send me statements. Other than that, I leave my credit card at home. As silly as this sounds, it's taped to my wall so I wouldn't be tempted to use it.

[cycosis]

When I use it, I pay it off via internet banking a few days later. Mind you while in Europe I carried a balance of about $2,500 for 5 months. Never missed a payment though.

[ZenOps]

Chinese people *hate* debt. Even Chinese Canadians that have been here for ages.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100216/household_debt_100216/

"Average Canadian household debt reaches $96,000" - 2009.

Now that is spread out between two people with 1.whatever children, but I'm pretty sure the household debtload is six digits this year per household.

Students can be the hardest hit, easily racking up $35,000 or so before they enter the workforce.

Another interesting statistic about "gold farmers" in MMORPGs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_farming

[adam c]

does that household debt include the mortgage though? if so then 96k isn't too bad, if not then wtf are people doing?

[ercchry]

Originally posted by adam c
does that household debt include the mortgage though? if so then 96k isn't too bad, if not then wtf are people doing?

two 50k cars :dunno:

[ZenOps]

Yup, cars, $500 a month parking, restaurants, $13 movie tickets.

And at the government level, spending $16 Billion for jet fighters while still tackling a $50B deficit.

Afterall, you are paying taxes to a government that is paying interest to someone else by running a debt.

Seriously, if a Chinese guy were in there. NO planes for you!

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by msommers
I think someone already mentioned this point but I'm going to say it again. If all the credit cards in the world were suddenly terminated, do you think the prices you see today would come down to compensate for that?

Not. A. Chance.

It's like cell phone companies that couldn't charge that access fee anymore. Instead their new plans are $5 more :rofl:

In principle it has come to this and I suppose we are all &quot;paying for it dearly,&quot; but I don't see any way to reverse it. If you can add all the benefits of a credit card to a debit card that charges the same amount per transcaction, I'd love to hear it. The only way I foresee something like that being even feasible would be having cards with insanely (even higher) interest rates than we see today to compensate. Bankruptcy rates would likely increase as a consequence.

For a new system to work, new machines, cards, networking and infrastructure need to be made and setup. Who is gonna pay for that and how?

Curious.

Walmart would instantly drop it's prices another 4% and other retailers would have to follow suit.

In retail there is actual competition - Unlike in the cell phone market where Rogers et al have been able to legislate their way into a restrictive monopoly of 3-4 companies.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by broken_legs


Walmart would instantly drop it's prices another 4% and other retailers would have to follow suit.

In retail there is actual competition - Unlike in the cell phone market where Rogers et al have been able to legislate their way into a restrictive monopoly of 3-4 companies.

Why would Walmart drop it's prices 4% when they're only paying a 1% interchange fee?

I guarantee you they wouldn't. Why would they? That's an instant 1% profit on ALL sales. And if you believe the marketing hype about "lowering prices because we love you".. well... c'mon. What would they say?

"Oh hai, the credit card companies have been ripping you off, so we decided to stop accepting MC and Visa as payment. In return, we're going to lower our prices by the amount of the interchange fee of 1%. We hope that the inconvenience of not being able to use a credit card anymore will be offset by your savings of 1 cent on the dollar."

No, I don't think Visa or MC would have a problem with that. Would you?

I like this article.
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/04/16/f-cardfees.html

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by codetrap


Why would Walmart drop it's prices 4% when they're only paying a 1% interchange fee?

I guarantee you they wouldn't. Why would they? That's an instant 1% profit on ALL sales. And if you believe the marketing hype about &quot;lowering prices because we love you&quot;.. well... c'mon. What would they say?

&quot;Oh hai, the credit card companies have been ripping you off, so we decided to stop accepting MC and Visa as payment. In return, we're going to lower our prices by the amount of the interchange fee of 1%. We hope that the inconvenience of not being able to use a credit card anymore will be offset by your savings of 1 cent on the dollar.&quot;

No, I don't think Visa or MC would have a problem with that. Would you?

I like this article.
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/04/16/f-cardfees.html

Sigh... My response was to this:

"If all the credit cards in the world were suddenly terminated, do you think the prices you see today would come down to compensate for that?"

Furthermore, AFAIK, Walmart pays the same transaction fees as any other retailer - Do you have data to suggest otherwise?

I really like your article too. Heres some quotes from your article that do a great job of illustrating my points:



The Bank of Canada survey looked at the estimated cost of processing a $36.50 transaction, which was the median cash transaction in its survey. Costs broke down like this:

* Debit card: 19 cents.
* Cash: 25 cents.
* Credit card: 82 cents.


About the Premium CC Cards that offer rewards:


"In March 2008, Visa-issuing financial institutions began issuing the Visa Infinite card that is targeted at a specific sub-set of cardholders," Visa spokesperson Amy Cole told CBC News. "Visa Infinite transactions attract an interchange rate that is one-fifth of one per cent (0.2%) higher than other card products."

In other words they charge more money for transactions with cards that are "premium" and offer higher rewards...



The Retail Council of Canada claims Canadians paid $4.5 billion in "hidden" credit card fees alone last year.


How much the Not-For-Profit Interact Network costs to use:


The current fee per transaction is $0.008253 — or $82.53 for 10,000 transactions.




Merchants pay two to four per cent of the sale price in various transaction fees whenever they accept a credit card for payment.




The study also found that merchants preferred debit cards (53 per cent), followed by cash (39 per cent) and credit cards (five per cent). The reason? Cost.

[adam c]

Originally posted by broken_legs The study also found that merchants preferred debit cards (53 per cent), followed by cash (39 per cent) and credit cards (five per cent). The reason? Cost.

because they can pocket the 2-3% markup... seriously why do you keep having this debate?

[HyperZell]

For all of the people who regularly pay off their credit cards - that's the way to do it. I am curious, however, as to why no one has mentioned linking a CC to your bank account to automatically pay it off. That's what I do - every month, on the due date of payment, the card withdraws the necessary amount from my bank account, which means I never have to think about it or miss any payments. And i put every thing I can on my CC...so, yes. It just makes things easier.

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by broken_legs

etc, etc, etc

You have a good point, and one which no one in this thread has been able to form a decent rebuttal against.

However! There really isn't an alternative. Sure CC companies are the middle-man for the majority of transactions and pocket 2-4% of every transaction, but until stores start enacting a 2-4% discount for cash/debit purchases, I don't think you'll see any change in consumer habits.

Visa/MC also provides a service to the customer...
- It's easier for expensing things at work (everything on one bill)
- They offer some form of protection if you get scammed (ie: there's a few days before the payment is processed for the merchant, and if you can get a hold of the CC company in that time you may be able to stop the payment)
- It builds your credit history, which can be useful for when you need a LOC.
- It gives you an interest free grace period, which a LOC doesn't.
- If you have a rewards card, you end up getting about half of that 2-4% they charge to the merchant back.

The CC companies also carry a pretty big risk...
- Customers not paying/defaulting.
- Items purchased by stolen cards (never goes back to the user)
- They need to have enough liquidity to pay merchants until they are paid back... there's an opportunity cost of their money that needs to be accounted for, as well as the risk that the user defaults.
- Overhead and huge advertising budgets.
- Network maintenance costs (servers, VISA machines, etc)
- Overhead
- Overhead
- Overhead