Friends got jumped in China Town

[freshprince1]

Just thought I'd share this with you all as a reminder to be careful and plan ahead. Calgary is not the safe city it once was.

Recently, some friends of ours were in China Town on a saturday night for dinner. Afterwards the two couples went to hail a cab to go home. A van pulled up in front of them and several asian men and women jumped out and immediately attacked the two couples. They knocked-out one guy and proceeded to beat him, beat the other husband and also punched and attacked the wives. The Asian women in the van had taken off their high-heels and were using them to participate in the attack.

After beating the couples they jumped back in the van and left. The couples called the Police and were informed that there were no uinits available to respond since there were higher priority calls at the time.

An ambulance showed up to take them to the hospital where one guy needed many stitches.

So, a few things about this really bothers me. Obviously the fact that they were innocently targeted at random and beat up - including their wives - is the most distrubing thing. But the fact that the Police basically refused to come out to the incident!? That surprises me. Thanks a lot CPS.

Secondly, what is wrong with people that they think it's cool to drive around assaulting random people minding their own bubsiness? The best I can think is that they must have been doing some sort of initiation?

Anyways, just thought I'd put this out there to remind everyone that Calgary has its fair share of cowards who are only tough when they outnumber their potential, and innocent, victims.

[KISS_ME]

Woah! Cant believe this is for real, this sounds like a movie.

Not doubting you OP, this is just crazy stuff.

[Supa Dexta]

And my knife would be out and in a couple peoples bellys

[Zhariak]

This is why we have to elect a mayor who keeps throwing money at the Calgary Police for more officers! (I'm serious!)

[syeve]

Ugh, that is a brutal.

[jazzyb]

wtf

[clem24]

Wow this really sucks. So they weren't after wallets or anything? Just a completely random attack on someone? That attack itself is bad enough, but the victims will now be scared shitless to go anywhere, especially at night. I know I would be. I'd be freaked out going anywhere. This attack does way more damage psychologically than physically. This is a huge blow to their sense of self security, and for absolutely no reason. Big huge thumbsdown.

[Dycker]

The number of places in Calgary that I feel comfortable walking around by myself at night are getting smaller. Now I hear even groups of four being attacked??

[beyond_ban]

Wow, that is BS. They weren't targeted for money or anything else? No possible motivation?

In the CPS' defense, once the attackers left they really would not have been much help anyways. Your friends only real recourse is to go file a report at the station.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I have trouble believing this was completely random.

[GREENBOY]

Mistaken identity (?) or one of you did something bad to someone at some time in the last few years, which you're not telling us?

Just remember this city is still ridiculously safe and it's laughable to suggest otherwise.

[bituerbo]

Originally posted by beyond_ban
Wow, that is BS. They weren't targeted for money or anything else? No possible motivation?

In the CPS' defense, once the attackers left they really would not have been much help anyways. Your friends only real recourse is to go file a report at the station.

FUCK THAT!
There is no defence to "sorry you were attacked, you're on your own"

[Canucks3322]

Ok, troll.

If you're gonna make up a story, at least have it make SOME sense. Since when do Asian kids go around beating random people up, the small% of bad Asian kids out there are too busy shooting EACH other over drugs.

"Some sort of initiation" eh....errr, ok, I'm gonna guess you're from a small town? Hey, guess what, if you see a car a night and it's headlights are not on! DO NOT! I repeat! DO NOT flash your headlights at them! It's a gang thing, they WILL turn around and chase after you and pull you out of your car and kill you! It's a gang initiation thing!

[beyond_ban]

^ They were downtown, one of the busiest districts. "Hey sorry we couldn't respond to your store being robbed, we were consoling victims of a random act of violence."

[Dycker]

There is a possibility that this case was a random attack from the view point of the victims. Mistaken identity isn't a new phenomenon.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I have trouble believing this was completely random.

I have trouble believing this at all. If it actually happened, the news would be all over it.

"Random attack 4 Blocks from Police Headquarters, failed to respond."

"Swarm Attack 4 Blocks from Police Headquarters. Police Not Interested".. that would be another good headline.

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I have trouble believing this was completely random.

Random indeed. Just in the wrong place at the wrong time I guess.


Originally posted by Canucks3322
Ok, troll.

If you're gonna make up a story, at least have it make SOME sense. Since when do Asian kids go around beating random people up, the small% of bad Asian kids out there are too busy shooting EACH other over drugs.

"Some sort of initiation" eh....errr, ok, I'm gonna guess you're from a small town? Hey, guess what, if you see a car a night and it's headlights are not on! DO NOT! I repeat! DO NOT flash your headlights at them! It's a gang thing, they WILL turn around and chase after you and pull you out of your car and kill you! It's a gang initiation thing!

Troll? Really? :facepalm:



Originally posted by codetrap


I have trouble believing this at all. If it actually happened, the news would be all over it.

"Random attack 4 Blocks from Police Headquarters, failed to respond."

"Swarm Attack 4 Blocks from Police Headquarters. Police Not Interested".. that would be another good headline.

Believe what you want, I don't really care. It happened. I have nothing to gain by posting a fake story. I'm not sure if they filed a report with the police, I don't see why they wouldn't.

[ZenOps]

Pshh, its a conspiracy.

Those were Asian FBI Internal affairs agents cracking down on Asian undercover local cops by pretending to be gangsters of course :nut:

OR

It could have been a native gang, pretending to be an Asian gang - hired by Rob Anders - to create strife in the area.

And man landed on the moon too, haha.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by freshprince1
The Asian women in the van had taken off their high-heels and were using them to participate in the attack.

Sorry, the mental image of this is just too funny.

I don't know, that's just too crazy. To bad City Beat is no more or I would say give us some proofs.

I don't think this limits to Chinatown but downtown as a whole. Especially near river front, Eau Claire area. So many stories of people getting jacked, usually around 10pm -2am timeframe.

EDIT:

Were they attacked on 2nd Ave on Oct 6th right before midnight? I see an assault incident registered on CPS Crime web.

If you check out the Crimeweb there are 585 assault cased registered in DT in the last month and over 135 robberies.

[mucat]

That's bad. I have 2 little kids and we do go to eat in china town, though not very often. Thanks for the head up.

[l/l/rX]

Originally posted by mucat
That's bad. I have 2 little kids and we do go to eat in china town, though not very often. Thanks for the head up.

:facepalm: you're not gonna get randomly attacked during the day. I also think this story is fabricated in one way or another.

[CUG]

Might have been a gang initiation.

[xerofx]

Were they possibly driving a hippie van?

And were any of them chewing Stride? They take that shit serious Yo!

[Dycker]

Originally posted by xerofx
Were they possibly driving a hippie van?

And were any of them chewing Stride? They take that shit serious Yo!

:rofl:

[85regal]

sounds believable..why would people think otherwise..fights and attacks happen nightly in calgary, you just dont hear about them. have witnessed a guy jumped outside a pub by 7 or 8 brown guys, one bit his ear off...this all happened right next to a police station.

gone are the days of one on one fights..now its a bunch of pussies looking for friends for help when they mouth off..

most likely wrong place at the wrong time....

[ZenOps]

There are multiple cameras on every corner of downtown now.

If it was worth mentioning on the news, they would have done so.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by mucat
That's bad. I have 2 little kids and we do go to eat in china town, though not very often. Thanks for the head up.

I take a walk into Chinatown almost daily. There is nothing to worry about during the day.

[dj_rice]

I don't know if this is true but there either has to be more to this story OR this is fake.

I believe people are jumped in Calgary yes but this is the first I've heard about Asians all chilling in a van and jumping out beating up people randomly.


Only conclusion that can make this story true more believable is, at the restaurant they were eating at, they were beefing with someone or rubbed someone at the restaurant the wrong way, gave a cocky stare something. So the people followed them out and did their thing.



Shitty deal for your friends OP but shit doesn't just happen randomly for no reason especially involving asians.

[Canucks3322]

+1 to the DJ Rice said....Asian kids, well Chinese kids, anyways simply don't do this sort of thing, they're more worried about their math finals...I call BS on this whole story OR there is more to it...

On a side note, has anyone seen this old father and son that holds a huge sign in Chinatown saying all Chinese should leave Canada, etc...they used to be in front of the Harry Hays building but 2 months ago I seen that they had moved to Chinatown......I looked them up a couple years back and actually took one of their pamphlets and apparently the one guy was "assaulted" by a Chinese family over some business deal and he took them to court in a civil suit and lost so now his life mission is to "protest" against Chinese people....anyone seen these 2? I know they're father and son because they were actually taken to the Humans Rights Tribunal for their protests and pamphlets and ordered to stop....

[mucat]

Originally posted by l/l/rX


:facepalm: you're not gonna get randomly attacked during the day. I also think this story is fabricated in one way or another.

I didn't say during the day though. I sometimes went there for supper. However, I hope the story is not true.

[st184]

Solving this is simple, reduce gun control and society gets nicer. Crimes like this and gun control have a positive relationship with each other.

[JVR1]

Originally posted by Canucks3322

On a side note, has anyone seen this old father and son that holds a huge sign in Chinatown saying all Chinese should leave Canada, etc...they used to be in front of the Harry Hays building but 2 months ago I seen that they had moved to Chinatown......I looked them up a couple years back and actually took one of their pamphlets and apparently the one guy was "assaulted" by a Chinese family over some business deal and he took them to court in a civil suit and lost so now his life mission is to "protest" against Chinese people....anyone seen these 2? I know they're father and son because they were actually taken to the Humans Rights Tribunal for their protests and pamphlets and ordered to stop....

i see those guys all the time typically on the centre st corner in chinatown by thai thi. i could never figure out what the body poster signs say since they squirm around trying to draw attention with their canadian flags. i always thought they were just retards with extra time during arts and craft..

[ReflexFX]

Originally posted by Canucks3322
+1 to the DJ Rice said....Asian kids, well Chinese kids, anyways simply don't do this sort of thing, they're more worried about their math finals...

Good Ol' Racism.

[01RedDX]

.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by ReflexFX


Good Ol' Racism.

Didn't you get the memo? FOB and FK got lost on their way to the math finals so they are just taking out their math anger... Seriously any race is capable of anything take off the colour shades...

[4lti]

:rofl:

Everyone so appalled at the fact that someone got beat up in China town.

If you really thought the city was that safe before...
Then youre missing alot of shit that goes on.
Calgarys mad sketchy at night no matter where you are.

Kids (Or lets just say Bored adults) dont seem to have anything better to do now except be heatbags it seems lately. Look around the city...
What the hell is there to do at night... Not much.

If a van full of people stopped in front of you walking downtown at night wouldn't common sense say "DANGER!!" (And you said they were hailing a cab. Couldn't they see this van stopping isnt a cab van?)

[st184]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


It's true, this crime could have just been a simple shooting, none of this hubbub.
Haha I see we still have people that reject common stats on gun control. That's okay, just keep your head in the sand.

[CUG]

Originally posted by st184

Haha I see we still have people that reject common stats on gun control. That's okay, just keep your head in the sand. Whoa whoa whoa, you're right.

The problem is that there's a lawyer bill attached to every single one of those bullets, even if you're just in shooting the person.

[st184]

^not if it's in self defense. The point is situations like this would be limited in general and would happen less in the first place.

[GQBalla]

mmm people just dont get randomly attacked like that. I can see guys waiting in a van to randomly beat people up than steal their wallets or something but nothing was mentioned stolen.

and girls too in the van? come on your friends or you have left something out.

Saturday night for dinner? honestly? how come no other bystanders were there. Guarenteed it was late at least 2 AM.

something is definitely being left out.

[beyond_ban]

^ 100% agree. For this story to be true, there has to be some sort background behind it or missing info.

[Orion12]

Read the following article. Problem solved. Time to wake up people. Nobody is going to protect you but yourself...


http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/25/george-jonas-armed-citizens-should-look-to-their-own-security/

[st184]

Originally posted by Orion12
Read the following article. Problem solved. Time to wake up people. Nobody is going to protect you but yourself...


http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/25/george-jonas-armed-citizens-should-look-to-their-own-security/
:clap:

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Orion12
Read the following article. Problem solved. Time to wake up people. Nobody is going to protect you but yourself...

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/25/george-jonas-armed-citizens-should-look-to-their-own-security/

Oh and never mind the fact that in the country you seem so keen on imitating has a higher amount of gun crime per capita and not to mention some of the cities with the highest murder rates in the world. Oh boy but they are safe with them guns! Forget that guns are used far more often in crimes than they are used for self defense.

PS: Why don't we just go for the full deal and take justice in our hands and form some good old fashioned Albertan lynch mobs!

[Jeremiah]

This happened about 2 years ago to an east indian fellow at some chinese restaurant in the NE.

Brutally beaten and killed for some sort of initiation.

They walked in and out of the back door, and the restaurant owners were cunts about the whole thing,not helping identify the group, or stopping them, throwing out memorials for the deceased and opening 2 days later.

[texasnick]

As a Texan I do like to fire off a round or two from time to time, but LOL at people who think allowing more guns into the country is going to reduce crimes like the OP.

If more guns were allowed, guess what the dudes/chicks jumping out of the van would have had? I'll give you 2 guesses, but hopefully you only need one.

[Neil4Speed]

If this happened recently, it may be in good interest for the city (and the victims) to bring this to the attention of a media outlet - Especially at a time when people actually seem to be interested in civic affairs.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by st184

Haha I see we still have people that reject common stats on gun control. That's okay, just keep your head in the sand.

No I think that most people here are intelligent enough to realize that the gun ownership and crime "stats" don't simply and easily quantify what is a much more complex relationship.

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by GQBalla
mmm people just dont get randomly attacked like that. I can see guys waiting in a van to randomly beat people up than steal their wallets or something but nothing was mentioned stolen.

and girls too in the van? come on your friends or you have left something out.

Saturday night for dinner? honestly? how come no other bystanders were there. Guarenteed it was late at least 2 AM.

something is definitely being left out.

The incident is true and did in fact happen. This happened to family friends and they have not shared every tiny detail about the assault and I'm not about to call them up and ask.

They were two mature couples (i.e. in their mid 40's) out for dinner on the weekend with friends. They were not trying to start anything. This was random and unprovoked.

I can't believe so many are trying to discredit this story as though I made it up. I've been around Beyond for over 4 years...how often have I posted a thread like this? There's a mod here that can vouch for my integrity.



Originally posted by Neil4Speed
If this happened recently, it may be in good interest for the city (and the victims) to bring this to the attention of a media outlet - Especially at a time when people actually seem to be interested in civic affairs.

I will leave it to them to decide what to do. But I agree, if it were me I would take it to the media.

I do not know all the details, I am sorry. I just thought I'd post this as a reminder to everyone to remember that Calgary is a big city and has big city problems. Plan ahead and think about where you're going. Lets try not to find ourselves in the same situation as my friends.

[jdmXSI]

Im torn wheather to believe this or not. The part of me that dose not want to believe this is the ignorant part of me on the other hand I know Calgary is a big city and there is alot of behind the scene shit we just dont see or hear because people are afraid of the reprocussions if they speak out. I can understand why they would not want to go public in fear of retalliation if it was indeed a gang initation. People are very easy to find, look at a few instances with beyond CSI find the claw or the dead beat mortgage broker. As for the OP, thanks for the reminder to have a higher level of acuity while out and about.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by freshprince1
I do not know all the details, I am sorry. I just thought I'd post this as a reminder to everyone to remember that Calgary is a big city and has big city problems. Plan ahead and think about where you're going. Lets try not to find ourselves in the same situation as my friends.

Did it happen on the date I found on CPS Crimeweb? Was this even filed with CPS?

Are you worried that one of those in the van is reading this right now?

[ekguy]

Not even one aspect of this story surprises me in the least bit. Calgary has shitty citizens doing shitty things all the time, Calgary also has a horrible HORRIBLE police force.

Like I said no aspects of this story surprises me. If this were to have happened in the Atlantic provinces then I would be surprised...Here...Not so much.

[st184]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


Oh and never mind the fact that in the country you seem so keen on imitating has a higher amount of gun crime per capita and not to mention some of the cities with the highest murder rates in the world. Oh boy but they are safe with them guns! Forget that guns are used far more often in crimes than they are used for self defense.

PS: Why don't we just go for the full deal and take justice in our hands and form some good old fashioned Albertan lynch mobs!
Do you have a source for your stats because I just scoured the internet and couldn't find anything that backed up your claim. In fact all said the exact opposite of both "facts" that you seem so confident in spouting out. The adage that plays the biggest role here is the idea that the knowledge a potential criminal has of the armed society will deter them from wanting to commit the crime in the first place. Too many people on here seem to think that you're just going to escalate all violent encounters by adding guns into the mix which I think is a pretty simplistic view. If criminals are going to commit the crime of assault against a fellow citizen its likely they don't care about gun control laws either.
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Did it happen on the date I found on CPS Crimeweb? Was this even filed with CPS?

The date you posted sounds about right, but I can't be sure. I was out of town when it happened. My wife called me to tell me about it. I didn't think of posting it until right now.


Originally posted by Xtrema
Are you worried that one of those in the van is reading this right now?

Hadn't thought about that...I guess it's a possibility given the demogrphics of this forum?

[Dauthi]

Originally posted by st184
Originally posted by mazdavirgin
Oh and never mind the fact that in the country you seem so keen on imitating has a higher amount of gun crime per capita


Do you have a source for your stats because I just scoured the internet and couldn't find anything that backed up your claim.

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

Well, Wikipedia's List of countries by intentional homicide rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) gives for 2008:

US 5.4 per 100 000 inhabitants
Canada 1.83 per 100 000 inhabitants

A quick google search gives this link (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita) for per capita firearm murders which lists:

US 0.0279271 per 1,000 people
Canada 0.00502972 per 1,000 people

So 2.9 times the intentional murders, 5.5 times the number of firearm murders. Note that various jurisdictions define intentional homicide differently, not sure how much difference in Canada vs US.

I just quickly looked at the Just Facts website you linked to. The Crime and Self-Defense section seemed to rely heavily on surveys which I'm a little leery of. You can run into a bunch of self-reporting problems.

[st184]

Originally posted by Dauthi


Do you have a source for your stats because I just scoured the internet and couldn't find anything that backed up your claim.

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

Well, Wikipedia's List of countries by intentional homicide rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) gives for 2008:

US 5.4 per 100 000 inhabitants
Canada 1.83 per 100 000 inhabitants

A quick google search gives this link (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita) for per capita firearm murders which lists:

US 0.0279271 per 1,000 people
Canada 0.00502972 per 1,000 people

So 2.9 times the intentional murders, 5.5 times the number of firearm murders. Note that various jurisdictions define intentional homicide differently, not sure how much difference in Canada vs US.

I just quickly looked at the Just Facts website you linked to. The Crime and Self-Defense section seemed to rely heavily on surveys which I'm a little leery of. You can run into a bunch of self-reporting problems. [/QUOTE]

The problem with the site you quoted is discussed here...

2. Historical Ignorance and the Anti-Gun Crusade Likewise, historical evidence refutes attributing differential international violence rates to differences in gun laws rather than to socio-institutional and cultural differences. People who attribute low violence rates in Europe to banning guns are apparently unaware that low rates long preceded the gun bans.[139] In fact, stringent gun laws first appeared in the United States, not Europe--despite which, high American crime rates persisted and grew.[140] Ever-growing violence in various American states from the 1810s on led those states to pioneer ever-more-severe gun controls.[141] But in Europe, where violence was falling, or was not even deemed an important problem, gun controls varied from lax to non-existent. During the 19th century in England, for instance, crime fell from its high in the late 1700s to its idyllic low in the early 1900s--yet the only gun control was that police could not carry guns.[142] In considering reasons for the historical differences between United States and British homicide, Prof. Monckkonen rejects conventional explanations including gun ownership, remarking Virtually every analysis put forward to explain the [comparatively] very high United States homicide rate has been ahistorical ... Had they been proposed as historical, they would have floundered quickly for the explanatory inadequacy of these "pet" theories becomes immediately apparent in a historical context.[143](p.39) When most European countries finally began enacting gun laws in the post-World War I period, the motivation was not crime (with which those countries had been little afflicted) but terrorism and political violence from which they have continued to suffer until today far more than the United States.[144] This difference is reflected in a practice that helps to keep official English murder rates so admirably low: English statistics do not include "political" murders (e.g., those by the IRA), whereas American statistics include every kind of murder and manslaughter. The different purposes of European versus American laws are evidenced by their diametrically opposite patterns: many of the "Saturday Night Special" laws that American states enacted to deal with 19th-century crime have banned all but standard military-issue revolvers (i.e., the very expensive large, heavy Colt). In stark contrast, such military caliber arms were the first guns banned in post-World War I Europe, the purpose being to disarm restive former soldiers and the para-military groups they formed.[145] Moreover, the claim that greater gun availability causes higher United States crime rates can only explain the rates of violence with guns. If gun availability were the explanation for higher crime rates, rather than socio-cultural and institutional differences, gun banning countries would have less gun crime than the United States, but roughly the same rates of non-violence. But, in fact, the rate of United States violence without guns is so great it exceeds the rate of violence in other comparable nations, both with and without guns (combined). That comparison applies not just among the United States and gun banning countries, but also among the United States and countries where guns are even more available (such as New Zealand, Switzerland, and Israel). These facts utterly refute the notion that greater gun availability is the major factor in violence differences among the United States and other nations. England's leading gun control analyst sardonically disposes of the issues with two rhetorical questions. First, how do those who blame "lax American gun laws" for the far higher U.S. rate of gun crime explain the country's also having far more knife crimes? Do they think that Englishmen must get a permit to own a butcher knife? Second, how do those who attribute U.S. gun murders to greater gun availability explain the far higher U.S. rate of stranglings and of victims being kicked to death? Do they think that Americans "have more hands and feet than" Britons? Flatly asserting that, no matter how stringent the gun laws, there will always be enough guns (p.40)in any society to arm those desiring to obtain and use them illegally, the analyst attributes grossly higher American violence rates "not to the availability of any particular class of weapon" but to socio-cultural and institutional factors that dictate
http://www.guncite.com/journals/gun_control_katesreal.html#h7.2

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Dauthi
Well, Wikipedia's List of countries by intentional homicide rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) gives for 2008:

US 5.4 per 100 000 inhabitants
Canada 1.83 per 100 000 inhabitants

A quick google search gives this link (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita) for per capita firearm murders which lists:

US 0.0279271 per 1,000 people
Canada 0.00502972 per 1,000 people

So 2.9 times the intentional murders, 5.5 times the number of firearm murders. Note that various jurisdictions define intentional homicide differently, not sure how much difference in Canada vs US.

I just quickly looked at the Just Facts website you linked to. The Crime and Self-Defense section seemed to rely heavily on surveys which I'm a little leery of. You can run into a bunch of self-reporting problems. [/B]

This also does not take into account population density. If you put 100,000 in 10sq km, you're going to have a much higher rate of killings than in 1000 sq km.

[Supa Dexta]

I think the answer is clear.. We're going to have to round up all of the asians and send em packing.. We can't have them running around, decapitating bus passengers, and randomly attacking good honest people in the streets. This has got to stop!

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
I think the answer is clear.. We're going to have to round up all of the asians and send em packing.. We can't have them running around, decapitating bus passengers, and randomly attacking good honest people in the streets. This has got to stop!
Filipino and East Indian too?! :eek:


:D

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by codetrap


This also does not take into account population density. If you put 100,000 in 10sq km, you're going to have a much higher rate of killings than in 1000 sq km.


It also doesn't take into account the higher groups of ethinc minorities, organized crime, higher poverty rate, higher per capita drug usage, lower incomes, lower education etc...

The USA is violent for many reasons that have nothing to do with guns.

I wish we had concealed carry in Canada.

[st184]

Originally posted by broken_legs



It also doesn't take into account the higher groups of ethinc minorities, organized crime, higher poverty rate, higher per capita drug usage, lower incomes, lower education etc...

The USA is violent for many reasons that have nothing to do with guns.

I wish we had concealed carry in Canada.
:clap: