New to 4x4's, best way to start wheelin'?

[TacoMexicano]

Having just recently sold my 92 Civic Hatch, I realized that I've left the loud 4-banger little japanese hatch era of my life behind, and went out and bought a Jeep Wrangler! I've been having alot of fun with it this summer, what with the ability to go doorless/roofless, but cruising around in the thing I've kind of started wanting to do something other than cruise around town. What's a good way to get wheeling? Beyond has always been helpful with Honda meets and engine swap info so... figure this is a great place to start :D

I'm just nervous to take my new jeep off into the bush in case i get stuck, since who know's when someone would be available to pull me out? Any info would be great!

Cheers!

[Cos]

We do runs a couple times a year, as well as the jeep club does them. We did 2 stocker runs this year as well.

Getting a little late in the season for me as I am not big into winter runs, however if you wanted to try it sounds like some of the guys on here will be doing a few.

Keep an eye on the 4x4 section.

[ercchry]

a few a year?! psh.. more like a few a month! yeah you are in the right section, keep your eyes open for last minute runs

[AndyL]

Rule #1 - Never wheel alone
Rule #2 - Nothing good ever comes from a night run

Get your tow/recovery points sorted out, get yourself a hilift/jackall and some straps/shackles.

Start learning to wheel stock - don't go stupid and start modifying until you've learned the basics.

[Cos]

Originally posted by ercchry
a few a year?! psh.. more like a few a month! yeah you are in the right section, keep your eyes open for last minute runs

haha okay. I do runs a couple times a year

[Kloubek]

I just picked up a 97 XJ for the winter. I already have a 2" BB lift en route. While I realize that isn't a huge lift, I wanted to ensure regular road manners as well, and didn't want to start screwing with the suspension/ride geometry. Add a set of 30 or 31's, and hopefully I can come along on the trail rides and keep up...

[Unknown303]

What kind of Wrangler did you get (@ OP) :love: Only thing I suggest for offroading is to get all the appropriate gear for the back country so you're prepared for anything. If it's an older Wrangler then upgraded tires are usually a must to get the ground clearance in check.

@Kloubek I only use lifts to clear tires. If I can fit tires without a lift I go that route. Those XJs do require a bit of a lift to get a good tire under then so I think you're going in the right direction.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by Kloubek
I just picked up a 97 XJ for the winter. I already have a 2" BB lift en route. While I realize that isn't a huge lift, I wanted to ensure regular road manners as well, and didn't want to start screwing with the suspension/ride geometry. Add a set of 30 or 31's, and hopefully I can come along on the trail rides and keep up...

buy me some 35s and you can have my wheels ;) trevor is running them on his xj, just need adapters plus they have a 3 year warranty... err if they are on my jeep haha

[Sugarphreak]

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[Supa Dexta]

I picked up a 92 4 runner in NS to beat around when I'm back there. Its a dog with the 4 cylinder, but its fun to beat around since I've only had new vehicles for a while now.

Looks the same as this, but with BFG mts on it.

http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2009/07/12/19/08/1992-toyota-4runner-4-dr-sr5-v6-4wd-suv-pic-38577.jpeg

[projekz]

Originally posted by AndyL
Rule #1 - Never wheel alone
Rule #2 - Nothing good ever comes from a night run

Get your tow/recovery points sorted out, get yourself a hilift/jackall and some straps/shackles.

Start learning to wheel stock - don't go stupid and start modifying until you've learned the basics.

This is probably the best advice.

@OP: post some pics of your ride.

[TacoMexicano]

Got a 2010 Wrangler Unlimited, Islander package, so I get 2 front tow hooks and one rear tow point. Also came with the same 32" tires as the rubicon, the Mud tires. Basically its a Wrangler sport with rubicon shock absorbers and tires :P

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg210/Sanudo/IMG_0053.jpg

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg210/Sanudo/IMG_0055.jpg

[Sugarphreak]

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[ercchry]

i would recommend some rubi rock rails instead of those side steps... i have used mines a few times already... and with a 4dr i think you would be using them even more than myself haha

[Abeo]

Originally posted by Kloubek
I just picked up a 97 XJ for the winter. I already have a 2" BB lift en route. While I realize that isn't a huge lift, I wanted to ensure regular road manners as well, and didn't want to start screwing with the suspension/ride geometry. Add a set of 30 or 31's, and hopefully I can come along on the trail rides and keep up...

How are you handling the rear lift?

Make sure you check to see if you have enough slack in the rear brake line at full droop, and watch for sagging springs (the XJ's were notorious for their squat). If you want a cheap rear spring upgrade, search for bastard pack instructions.

[Phenix]

Dam you guys. I want a Jeep now. lol

[2BLUE]

Originally posted by AndyL
Rule #1 - Never wheel alone
Rule #2 - Nothing good ever comes from a night run

Get your tow/recovery points sorted out, get yourself a hilift/jackall and some straps/shackles.

Start learning to wheel stock - don't go stupid and start modifying until you've learned the basics.

Night runs are the best!

[Awd-Tsi]

Originally posted by 2BLUE


Night runs are the best! Till your lights get covered in mud

[AndyL]

Nothing but breakage, amazing stucks and vehicle abandonment come from night runs :)

Runs that run well into an evening are the shit however :) But if you're nice and warm at the campfire - stay there :D

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Abeo


How are you handling the rear lift?

Make sure you check to see if you have enough slack in the rear brake line at full droop, and watch for sagging springs (the XJ's were notorious for their squat). If you want a cheap rear spring upgrade, search for bastard pack instructions.

I ordered shackles for the rear.

The truck appears perhaps an inch lower in the back, which may or may not be a result of the squat you are talking about. (The leafs are pretty much flat, but I hear that is normal stock appearance for XJs) To counter the slightly lower rear, I was thinking perhaps a SMALL block (1-1.5"), or maybe AAD. I did not, however, consider the brake lines so thanks for the heads-up.

Edit: Now that I've read into it a bit more, I think it might be a better idea just to do a bastard pack on the rear from an S10 or something, and forego the shackles and potential aal/block idea for now. I can always keep them around in case the rears start to droop over time. Would that be a better choice maybe?

There must be S10's/Suburbans/etc at the wrecker I could easily take leaf springs from...

[TacoMexicano]

Well next time anyone's heading out for an easy run, I'd be more than happy to come along and bring some photo-gear! End of the day if I'm not comfortable running my own jeep, is it possible to ride as a passenger and take pictures? Sounds like tires are the most important aspect and I got those, just lacking experience,

[Kloubek]

Well Taco, when I get everything set up, I'd be happy to have the company if I'm not bringing the woman.

[projekz]

Same here. Passengers are always fun.

[Abeo]

Originally posted by Kloubek


I ordered shackles for the rear.

The truck appears perhaps an inch lower in the back, which may or may not be a result of the squat you are talking about. (The leafs are pretty much flat, but I hear that is normal stock appearance for XJs) To counter the slightly lower rear, I was thinking perhaps a SMALL block (1-1.5"), or maybe AAD. I did not, however, consider the brake lines so thanks for the heads-up.

Edit: Now that I've read into it a bit more, I think it might be a better idea just to do a bastard pack on the rear from an S10 or something, and forego the shackles and potential aal/block idea for now. I can always keep them around in case the rears start to droop over time. Would that be a better choice maybe?

There must be S10's/Suburbans/etc at the wrecker I could easily take leaf springs from...

I had a buddy go through this with his '97 XJ... so its still fresh in my mind :)

Flat springs = worn. Should be an arc to them, they'll start inverting when they get too worn
A shackle (~1.5 inch longer than stick) on a worn spring will jack up the rear, it'll ride rough, and put alot of stress on the spring pack... but it'll bring it up, and bring back an arc

If you have shackles that jack up the rear, check to see if the shocks are limiting the droop, if so, bad news. You can run the shocks on the sway bar mounts on the axle if you are tossing the rear sway bar instead of buying longer shocks

Blocks - I don't like (especially on a worn leaf pack), I won't comment further

Bastard pack - get handy with a grinder. We used s10 springs, and they were a little stiff (the s10 leaves are thicker than the cherokee springs). If I were to do it again, I'd use a couple cherokee packs. My buddy ended up buying a proper lift spring pack, which have thin leaves so it lifts but can still flex

[Phenix]

why wouldn't you just get some new leaf packs from standens ? they probably sell them cheap enough

[AndyL]

I've heard/seen good results with that ?procomp? mono-leaf for the XJs. It's not too expensive amazingly, flexes good too.

[Kloubek]

Yeah, I'm not against using my angle grinder to make a bastard pack. I'm strongly heading in that direction, then just using the shackles if I want the extra height.

Phenix: Because then I'm still not going to have any lift. I need to get lift somehow. Granted, the shackles PLUS new leafs would probably give me enough height. But if I can get the height by just replacing the leafs, I'd rather do that than add another component (shackles) to the equation. Plus, I'm certain I could make a bastard pack for far less than buying new springs.

[projekz]

I checked for new springs from Standens last Feb and they were over $200 each.

I'd say get a lift kit from Northridge for $600 and be done with it otherwise just make yourself a bastard pack for cheap.

[Kloubek]

Yeah, they want $300 for two new springs. (I just called). That would at least make my Jeep level. Then with the 2" spacers I'm getting for the front, and the 2" shackle in the back, that would provide the lift I was originally intending.

Or, I can spend $100 to buy old S10 leafs and make bastard packs on the rear - then not use the shackles at all. That would save me $200 overall, plus maybe I can resell the shackles for $50.

Decisions decisions...

[Sugarphreak]

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[AndyL]

Sugarfreak brings up an excellent idea - saw some company in the sun with a huge "performance parts" ad - 300$ for airbags... That'd be an even better solution...

[410440]

Originally posted by Kloubek
Yeah, they want $300 for two new springs. (I just called). That would at least make my Jeep level. Then with the 2" spacers I'm getting for the front, and the 2" shackle in the back, that would provide the lift I was originally intending.

Or, I can spend $100 to buy old S10 leafs and make bastard packs on the rear - then not use the shackles at all. That would save me $200 overall, plus maybe I can resell the shackles for $50.

Decisions decisions...

I just went through this.

Rear leafs were sagged to fuck.

Standens was over priced. - I wanted new leafs to do it right and not just shackle worn leafs.

Ordered a set from Quadratec and some bushings and ubolts from modern motors.

All in all it came to 365 bucks.

But Standans also quote me almost 250 / side including hardware without install.

THe jeep rides 100x better, handles nicer, they are a bit stiff but i like that over slamming into bumpstops on speedbumps.

The quadratec HD leafs brought me up to 19.5" in the rear from hub to fender, the front sits stock at 18.5"

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


The Max-Air shocks are way cheaper than new leafs and easy to install... you can adjust the hieght up to 3" up or down & stiffness when you need to either tow or pack around a lot of weight in the rear just by adding air. Would highly reccomend them.

VERY interesting. Didn't even know these existed. I'm going to look into this deeply. Thank you.

[410440]

I also had no idea these existed.

Where can they be purchased?

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


The Max-Air shocks are way cheaper than new leafs and easy to install... you can adjust the hieght up to 3" up or down & stiffness when you need to either tow or pack around a lot of weight in the rear just by adding air. Would highly reccomend them.


Woah, those are news to me, I need to check them out.

[Kloubek]

So I looked into these, and the price is certainly right. Plus, it wouldn't hurt to replace god-knows-how-old shocks.

I have not been able to find much as far as people using them as a poor-man's permanent suspension lift though (and the manufacturer claims that is not what they are intended for). I wonder what the ride (when pumped with high psi) is like, and if they would stand up with higher pressure over long-term use. I have read they are not meant to have more than 90 psi for extended periods of time... though I do not know how much pressure would be required for a 3 inch lift. With that said, I still have the shackle option so all that would be absolutely required is about 1 inch.

I also wonder if they properly maintain pressure over time and temperature conditions. That sort of thing I figure I can find with enough digging online.

On the other hand, when my leaf springs continue to degrade over time, it is nice to know there is an easy and free way to keep the truck level.

Off to do more investigating...

[Sugarphreak]

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[Sugarphreak]

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[Kloubek]

lol @ age comment. Join the club though - only 4 years ago I had a full head of hair. Now, not so much.

I always thought the fronts were the most likely set to rub... not the rears. Those tires would have looked great with the lift - they DO look a tad large for stock height. Mind you, the wheels don't appear much to be of offroading design. :)

I could order for summit, but with shipping (and I haven't investigated yet) but probably UPS ground shipping, it might not be THAT cost effective.

Somebody in town must sell these!

[Cos]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Actually I have a picture of the Jeep with 32" x 10" wide tires stuffed under it before the lift... it rubbed in the rear before, all I did was put the Max Air shocks in and it worked great.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb256/Sugarphreak/Club%20Albums/Beyond%204x4/Picture139.jpg

(looking at pics from like 8 years ago I start to realize... god I have aged poorly :( )

Holy shit that is some huge rims. Looks like you need to be cruising 17th in that thing.

Honestly, that is actually a really sick jeep. What became of her?

[TacoMexicano]

I'm surprised to see such an active 4wd community here on beyond haha, was really not expecting it. Didnt even know it existed while I was cruising in my JDM cars,

Agreed tho, I've always loved the look of the Cherokee, wanted one ever since I was a kid, and that pic is a prime example of one :D

[Sugarphreak]

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[Kloubek]

Thanks - already did. Total came to something like $120 shipped. (Not UPS though!) OK price, but if I can get them cheaper and/or quicker locally, then I will.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Kloubek]

Well, I installed my lift today. Just 2". Rear shackles and front spacers. It was a total bitch - one of the front sway links snapped (where is the best place to get new disconnects cheap? National has them for one bill.) and in the rear the bolts were not cooperating due to a trailer hitch being in the way.

But after several hours, all is good. Still want to try out those Max Air shocks to level out the rear a bit.

[Kloubek]

So I just ordered the Air Max shocks from Summit. Ended up being $125 U.S., which is a pretty good deal since the cheapest I found in town was $227+GST for the pair.

Once I get em installed, I'll let you all know how they worked out and maybe post a couple of pictures too.

[projekz]

Post some pics. :thumbsup:

[Sugarphreak]

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[Kloubek]

So, through the joy of photoshop I have an idea of what the truck looks like now compared to what it will look like once I level out the rear, and put 31" wheels on....

http://members.shaw.ca/kloubek/public/photoshopped.jpg

It may look like the back is still droopy, but it really isn't. It's a trick of the uphill driveway and the angle I took the shot. In all, it is pretty much exactly the look I was going for. Slightly aggressive, without having people hanging out their window yelling "cracker!!!!" at me.

...and yes, I know my front tire is flat. It was the spare - the alignment is off and I had wires poking out the one that was previously on there.

[Sugarphreak]

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[RedApe]

Originally posted by AndyL
Rule #1 - Never wheel alone
Rule #2 - Nothing good ever comes from a night run

Get your tow/recovery points sorted out, get yourself a hilift/jackall and some straps/shackles.

Start learning to wheel stock - don't go stupid and start modifying until you've learned the basics.

High fivin' Andy on dat one....ALL points.

[Kloubek]

So I got those Max-Air shocks from Summit and installed them this weekend. When I first pumped them up I think I raised the back end a good 4 inches or so, and now released some air so I'm nice and level. 4 inches was giving me vibration anyway.

Actually, the passenger rear is at about 3" lift, while the driver rear is at about 2". Not really sure why that is - I can only assume one of the rear springs is weaker than the other. The lift is really being supplied by the shackles, and the air shocks are just leveling it out front/back to a proper height so hopefully there isn't TOO much pressure on them. Thanks for the suggestion - they seem to be working fine!

I read that a lot of people snap the upper shock bolts. I got the first three off fine and thought I was home free until the 4th snapped and I had to redrill and secure a bolt through the floor of the bed. Seems ok now.

New track bar and ball joints in en route.

Also picked up some 30" Baja Widetrack AT tires, and buying some used Grand Cherokee wheels Tuesday. Those won't make their way on the rig until Spring though...

[Sugarphreak]

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[Kloubek]

Well, considering playing with the vibration at higher PSI (even with a load to force it down) I might not pump it up any more than it curently is unless towing something really heavy.

The air line should last a long time. I thought I'd have difficulty hunting for a spot to bring the t-valve into the cab, but it wasn't too bad.

I have to admit though - with a "jimmied" suspension, and current front-end issues I'll solve shortly, I'm not THAT confident it will stand up on the trails. Guess it's a wait and see thing...