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copynpaste
10-21-2010, 07:15 PM
On Nov 1st Im sitting down with my boss and re-negotiating my wages as we planned. How do I go about this? Cause this is my first time and have no experience. Basically I want the higher wage (and he knows it because we've talked about this in the past just recently) frankly what im being paid now is just not enough. But i toughed it out for the time being like he had asked and we agreed to talk again on Nov 1st.

Im most likely going to have to remind him about it, should I email him first asking whens a good time to sit and talk about it or just walk into his office?

I just want to tell him that what im being paid now is just not enough to live on. But would that sound stupid if I said that? I also recently got another job offer from another company that pays bit more, should I bring that up with him?

Whats the best way to word it and go about it without sounding pushing or demanding?

Chandler_Racing
10-21-2010, 07:20 PM
Tell him exactly what you want and be firm. If you're valuable to the organization try and establish the value you provide and the corresponding extra compensation you deserve as a result.

When you sound wishy washy he might be more inclined to push back or simply say no.

copynpaste
10-21-2010, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Chandler_Racing
Tell him exactly what you want and be firm. If you're valuable to the organization try and establish the value you provide and the corresponding extra compensation you deserve as a result.

When you sound wishy washy he might be more inclined to push back or simply say no.

Ok so how would you word it to start?

I know first thing were going to do is go over my goals and whether or not I hit them for the month of Oct. THen he will comment on my work. Then do I bring up the wage then?

To be honest I think ive been more than nice enough to work a month and a half now on his lowest wage like he had asked. Im not willing to go any further without a higher pay. I just dont want to sound rude and him take offense to it.

Ill be honest, what im being paid now is just not enough to live on. But if I tell him exactly that do you think he would take offense?

chkolny541
10-21-2010, 07:27 PM
who cares if he t akes offence or not, if he says no just tell him you have a better offer on the table and you may be inclined to take it. Dont be scared to hurt the guys feelings, you cant be pushed around, be firm and say your willing to walk

kvg
10-21-2010, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by copynpaste




To be honest I think ive been more than nice enough to work a month and a half now on his lowest wage like he had asked. Im not willing to go any further without a higher pay. I just dont want to sound rude and him take offense to it.

Ill be honest, what im being paid now is just not enough to live on. But if I tell him exactly that do you think he would take offense?

Be straight and tell him that and that you have another offer. If you would rather stay tell him that, then the balls in his court.

kaput
10-21-2010, 07:45 PM
.

Disoblige
10-21-2010, 07:46 PM
It will not sound stupid at all if you tell your boss that the amount is simply not enough, to even live on if that is true. I agree with being firm and telling him exactly what you want, but don't want to sound intimidating to the person with threats to walk and whatnot.

copynpaste
10-21-2010, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by kvg


Be straight and tell him that and that you have another offer. If you would rather stay tell him that, then the balls in his court.

Ok got it, so should I say that first thing or after he speaks and goes over my goals, work etc.

And would it be ok for me to email him say sometime late next week to setup a time to talk about this? Or do it on the day of?

Xtrema
10-21-2010, 07:52 PM
Try to find an industry average to support your position/request.

The fact is, people will pay whatever they can get away with. If you became integral part of his operations, and still cheap out on you and pay you less than industry average, leave.

If you like the place, get an offer to see if he'll match.

If you don't give a shit, get an offer and leave.

copynpaste
10-21-2010, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Disoblige
It will not sound stupid at all if you tell your boss that the amount is simply not enough, to even live on if that is true. I agree with being firm and telling him exactly what you want, but don't want to sound intimidating to the person with threats to walk and whatnot.

Ya I dont want to treaten to walk, cause then he will assume i dont want to work for his company anymore and probably fire my ass on the spot.

I want to let him know that id love to continue working for him.

What about something like

"I have a couple things to say...first off, i love working here, everyones great, great environment and i want to stay. But ill be honest with you, $____ /hr is just not enough for me to live on. One of the companies i used to work for asked if i wanted to go back, theyre paying $____/hr. "

Still not sure when in the convo process i should say the above, but ill probably do it after he talks. Ill let him speak first and tell me what he thinks of my work, performance etc.

benz_890
10-21-2010, 08:00 PM
where/what do you work

kvg
10-21-2010, 08:00 PM
A reminder email would be a great idea. I think its respectful to be straight with him and let him know what your plan is. Telling him if he can't increase your wage to $xxx you are going have to take the other job, then shut up and let him respond. If he doesn't want to increase you wage you should find another job. I had a situation years ago where I asked for a raise after a few months and waited for a response. 10 days later I gave my notice, then they said they would give me the raise. When they did that I still left. I told them if I have to put in my notice to get my raise I didn't want to work for them, and left on good terms.

copynpaste
10-21-2010, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Xtrema
Try to find an industry average to support your position/request.

The fact is, people will pay whatever they can get away with. If you became integral part of his operations, and still cheap out on you and pay you less than industry average, leave.

If you like the place, get an offer to see if he'll match.

If you don't give a shit, get an offer and leave.

Thats why i feel im worth way more than what theyre paying me. I know what people like me with my exp should be making, he knows too. I just cant tell if hes being a cheapass or not. Judging from my time there, I think he is being a cheapass and trying to get away with paying me the absolute least possible.

The last discussion we had was exactly about this. IF hes not willing to give me the higher wage I know what his reasoning will be behind it. He will just repeat himself from last time "if im not hitting my goals, then the company cant afford to pay me the higher wage....its not that were not willing to give you the higher wage but its whether or not we can afford to...the place has to pay rent, other expenses, yada yada yada."

Idratherbsidewayz
10-21-2010, 08:13 PM
When you go over the goals you hit, make sure to show him the value you brought to the table above and beyond what he's paying you for.

Then tell him that your extra effort deserves a higher wage and that you would like him to pay you $xx.00/hr. If he flatout tells you no, then you can mention the other offer and that you simply will not work for the current wage anymore (ie. you're making the company lots of money, yet somehow can't survive on what they're paying you).

Kavy
10-21-2010, 10:12 PM
If you have to constantly remind your boss about reviewing your wage it means he doesn't see how valuable you are or there is no money to go around and he is avoiding it. Both are extremely unprofessional on his part.

Write down all the things you do for the company ABOVE your job requirements and all of your successes. Outline them all to him and mention your attendance and reliability. Be reasonable with your requests, if you have sales/task goals and your not making them you are in NO position to ask for a raise, same goes for if your one of those 5 sick days a month type of guy.

After stating your points ask him/her how they would rate your performance. If you receive anything other then a championship speech of your importance your going to get the bare minimum/if any raise.

I agree 100% with what KVG said, If a job is not willing to give you a raise unless you threaten to leave they are not a company you want to be working for.

If your boss is unable to tell you what you need to do to receive more compensation a betting man would believe that there is no room for an increase in his budget or he does not value you.

Best of luck.

BrknFngrs
10-21-2010, 10:17 PM
Agreed with the above posts; the key is to be honest and firm but not rude and also provide legitimate reasons for why you deserve a raise (ie: tie your discussion to your goals)

On a go forward basis, I always like to explicitly ask what is expected of me to "move to the next level" and get future raises; that way next time you're reviewed you can pretty much discuss each point they expected you to meet (and assuming you met them) get paid more in the future.

D'z Nutz
10-21-2010, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by copynpaste
Still not sure when in the convo process i should say the above, but ill probably do it after he talks. Ill let him speak first and tell me what he thinks of my work, performance etc.

If it were me, I'd start off the conversation with that. It sets the playing field and lets him know you mean business and that you have other options.

kvg
10-21-2010, 11:20 PM
The only problem is that could set a up a bad meeting. I honestly would seriously consider just taking the other job, but I don't know the whole situation.

78si
10-21-2010, 11:31 PM
My friend wrote a book:

Rock your review-- 10 tips to prove your performance.

www.careergumbo.ca

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2J3tmjEULM

boosted_Z
10-21-2010, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by copynpaste

ive been more than nice enough to work a month and a half now on his lowest wage like he had asked.
I think this is your problem. Accepting a lower wage than you're worth to be 'nice' is ridiculous. Do it if you love the work (like teachers) or get awesome perks (like flight attendants) but don't do it to be nice. People will walk all over you if you let them. And right now you are.

If your external job offer is real, then negotiate like you have nothing to lose (since you don't).

-First, SHOW them in writing what you do to build VALUE for them. You need tangible evidence for why they should give you more money.
-Second, if they push back, show research of what people in your role make (assuming it is more on average).
-Third, if they still won't budge, use your ace, but BE READY TO WALK.

If you have mouths to feed that rely on you - accept/start your new job before quitting your steady paycheque (even if your current job sucks).

It isn't the best way to build long term business relationships, but at least you'll get a wage you can live on.

Good luck.

97'Scort
10-22-2010, 12:43 AM
I know when I went for a raise at the last engineering firm I worked at, I walked in with the ASET salary survey and a competing job offer with a higher salary. Walked out with a raise and a handshake ten minutes later.

Do your homework and if you have somebody who thinks rationally, that's all you really need.

Idratherbsidewayz
10-22-2010, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by 97'Scort
I know when I went for a raise at the last engineering firm I worked at, I walked in with the ASET salary survey and a competing job offer with a higher salary. Walked out with a raise and a handshake ten minutes later.

Do your homework and if you have somebody who thinks rationally, that's all you really need.

Sick, I was thinking about doing this. Glad it worked out for you.

ExtraSlow
10-22-2010, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by 97'Scort
Do your homework This.
Get some soild examples of ways your bring value to the company. Do you do more work than your co-workers? Do you bring in more sales? Have you inproves saefty or performance?

Then, what do comparable positions in industry earn? Your competing offer is just a starting point.

If you have solid info, and you present that info to your manager, the conversation will be fine.

If this guy is an asshole who's just going to try and scam you into taking less money, you'll know, and you should GTFO.

Cos
10-22-2010, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Disoblige
It will not sound stupid at all if you tell your boss that the amount is simply not enough, .

agree 100%. However if you are making $30.00 an hour and say this your boss will just think you are an idiot who cant live on a decent wage. If you make $18.00 an hour and have an education I would bet he will sympathize.



OP most of the bosses I have had are human beings. Some treat you like that and some dont. For the ones that treat you like a human the conversation is easy. Walk in, small chit chat (honest nice chit chat, not hollow Im an asshole chit chat) explain to boss situation (low pay, like job, other offers) and tell him you really like it here and if you can negotiate a better raise then you will be very happy to stay. That is how my last 4 reviews have gone.

If your boss is a prick (or just very work is work manager) then the conversation will be tougher no doubt. However you must still get your points across just leave out the chit chat and try not to say that you love working there or whatever. To a boss like this any nice things you say about the company can be seen as a weakness or an excuse to offer you less money.

The salary survey and other info is great if you have a prick or very business boss. To a nice boss or more human boss it could be seen as an insult as you over prepared. However it would be worth the small risk IMO.
Either way I think you will be fine. Good luck!

Kennyredline
10-22-2010, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by benz_890
where/what do you work
Yes, this.
We're gonna be pissed if this is a deal where you want a raise 'cause you're moving from the counter to the drive through....

copynpaste
10-22-2010, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by boosted_Z

I think this is your problem. Accepting a lower wage than you're worth to be 'nice' is ridiculous. Do it if you love the work (like teachers) or get awesome perks (like flight attendants) but don't do it to be nice. People will walk all over you if you let them. And right now you are.

If your external job offer is real, then negotiate like you have nothing to lose (since you don't).

-First, SHOW them in writing what you do to build VALUE for them. You need tangible evidence for why they should give you more money.
-Second, if they push back, show research of what people in your role make (assuming it is more on average).
-Third, if they still won't budge, use your ace, but BE READY TO WALK.

If you have mouths to feed that rely on you - accept/start your new job before quitting your steady paycheque (even if your current job sucks).

It isn't the best way to build long term business relationships, but at least you'll get a wage you can live on.

Good luck.

Well I wouldn't say I've been working the past month and a half on his lowest wage cause I'm nice but because I'm trying toi prove my worth. He said he wants me to proove myself to him that I'm worth the higher wage. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's not just taking advantage of me.

copynpaste
10-22-2010, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by boosted_Z

I think this is your problem. Accepting a lower wage than you're worth to be 'nice' is ridiculous. Do it if you love the work (like teachers) or get awesome perks (like flight attendants) but don't do it to be nice. People will walk all over you if you let them. And right now you are.

If your external job offer is real, then negotiate like you have nothing to lose (since you don't).

-First, SHOW them in writing what you do to build VALUE for them. You need tangible evidence for why they should give you more money.
-Second, if they push back, show research of what people in your role make (assuming it is more on average).
-Third, if they still won't budge, use your ace, but BE READY TO WALK.

If you have mouths to feed that rely on you - accept/start your new job before quitting your steady paycheque (even if your current job sucks).

It isn't the best way to build long term business relationships, but at least you'll get a wage you can live on.

Good luck.

Well I wouldn't say I've been working the past month and a half on his lowest wage cause I'm nice but because I'm trying toi prove my worth. He said he wants me to proove myself to him that I'm worth the higher wage. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's not just taking advantage of me. If I find out that he is and been bullshitting me all along I will fuck his clientel over before I leave. Trust me I don't think he's wanting to lose some of his biggest clients.

Rui M
10-22-2010, 12:16 PM
What do you do for work and how much are you being paid?

copynpaste
10-22-2010, 01:02 PM
I'm the in house graphic designer and the companies only designer (company of 7 ppl including myself).

I'm not gonna say how much I make cause its so insulting and degrading. Let's just say the higher wage is $2/hr more.

Idratherbsidewayz
10-22-2010, 01:07 PM
If you have ANY issues trying to get $2 more on a shit wage, LEAVE ASAP.

copynpaste
10-23-2010, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Idratherbsidewayz
If you have ANY issues trying to get $2 more on a shit wage, LEAVE ASAP.

i agree and so far its been tough cause hes a fuckin cheapass.

THought about it lots last night and today and i think im just gonna walk in Monday saying im leaving and give my 2 weeks notice. I know well enough by now hes too cheap and no way hes gonna match let alone beat my new offer so i might as well just tell him im leaving and leave it at that.

Ill bring my job offer sheet too just in case he asks but i dont think ill need to show him.

kvg
10-23-2010, 01:31 PM
Good call:thumbsup: Don't bother with the job offer sheet unless you are gonna try to stay, even then by showing him he will see all your cards.

copynpaste
10-23-2010, 01:52 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kvg
Good call:thumbsup: Don't bother with the job offer sheet unless you are gonna try to stay, even then by showing him he will see all your cards. [/QUOT

I hope he doesnt blow up on me, should i be offering 2 weeks notice? Ive been there 1.5 months.

kvg
10-23-2010, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by copynpaste
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kvg
Good call:thumbsup: Don't bother with the job offer sheet unless you are gonna try to stay, even then by showing him he will see all your cards. [/QUOT

I hope he doesnt blow up on me, should i be offering 2 weeks notice? Ive been there 1.5 months.

You aren't required to give notice under 3 months. Your call really. Why would he blow up? If he gets angry smile and walk away:thumbsup:

Van Persie
10-23-2010, 02:17 PM
Be a man, demand the raise. If he says no, thank him for the six weeks of work you've had and walk out with your head held high.

Chris Ng
10-23-2010, 02:55 PM
You've only worked there for a month and a half?

When you got this job, a month and a half ago, did you not discuss salary at that point in time? You obviously accepted the position and salary discussed at that time.

and now, in and month and a half you want to tell your boss that you are worth more than what you agreed to 60 days ago and want more money or will leave?

Personally, any employee came up to me after a month and a half and told me they needed a raise or will move on, I would open the door and help them out.. not too tough to do especially since the employee was still under their 3 month probation period..

e31
10-23-2010, 02:55 PM
A couple of years ago I took a job where I was promised a raise after 6 months, I was liking the place at the time so when 6 months flew by without a raise I decided to use it as a litmus test. At the year end review, I got another raise and was asked why I did not bring up the initial raise after 6 months. I told them that I wanted to find out if they were cheapskates or not. The next cheque I received was both raises retroactive to my starting date 1 year earlier. Pretty decent payoff for basically calling out your employer I'd say.

in*10*se
10-23-2010, 03:04 PM
http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article/MSN-1330-Workplace-Issues-5-Ways-to-Ask-For-a-Raise/?pf=true

Build your case.


Your desire to move into a new condo or goal of paying off student loans are not valid reasons for a higher salary. Instead, you must demonstrate a compelling business reason for being paid more. Document all your responsibilities to date, focusing specifically on how your efforts have helped the company achieve its objectives. For example, perhaps you helped redesign a website that increased traffic and sales by 15 percent or took on additional responsibilities to save others time. Gathering concrete data, and being able to present this information in an organized manner, is critical to positioning yourself as a valuable asset to your employer.


Research the going rate.


It's always a good idea to investigate what others in your area and with your qualifications are being paid before approaching your boss for a raise. Online services, such as CBsalary.com and the U.S. Department of Labor's Occupational Outlook Handbook are excellent sources. Complimentary publications, like the Robert Half Salary Guides, also provide compensation figures for a variety of jobs in various industries. Estimating your worth on the open market will ensure you don't under- or oversell your services.


Build your case over time.


Despite his or her best intentions, your boss may not be aware of the many projects you're involved with. To prevent your achievements from being overlooked, consider providing your manager with a weekly status report that summarizes the assignments you're working on and have recently completed. A record of consistent performance can bolster your case for a raise.


Time it right.


While the most logical time to discuss a raise is during your performance review, it could be advantageous to speak with your supervisor about the issue before your next evaluation rolls around. For example, you might broach the subject with your boss after you've successfully completed a major project. Just be sure to schedule the meeting at a time when you know he or she won't be overwhelmed with deadlines.


Prepare a 'Plan B.'


If a pay raise is not in your employer's budget, consider negotiating other benefits, such as more vacation time, a flexible schedule or a larger performance-based bonus. If these requests are denied, ask your boss how to best position yourself for a future raise and arrange a date for a follow-up meeting to discuss your progress toward this goal.


Like any negotiation, securing a raise requires preparation and finesse. Taking the time and effort to craft a compelling case and make your value to the company clear will help you increase your chances of getting paid what you're worth.

copynpaste
10-23-2010, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by kvg


You aren't required to give notice under 3 months. Your call really. Why would he blow up? If he gets angry smile and walk away:thumbsup:

Hes got a bad temper, like extreme temper.


Originally posted by Chris Ng
You've only worked there for a month and a half?

When you got this job, a month and a half ago, did you not discuss salary at that point in time? You obviously accepted the position and salary discussed at that time.

and now, in and month and a half you want to tell your boss that you are worth more than what you agreed to 60 days ago and want more money or will leave?

Personally, any employee came up to me after a month and a half and told me they needed a raise or will move on, I would open the door and help them out.. not too tough to do especially since the employee was still under their 3 month probation period..

Well at the interview i told him my asking rate and he said it was too high. So i allowed some leeway and was willing to go a bit lower but i told him ill only go as low as his highest rate. I flat out told him that ill only accept his highest wage (which isnt even that great to begin with). But like i said im flexible.

I think i was more than nice enough because this place is also 25km drive each way everyday (and in the winter those 20min drives will turn into 45mins).

I know he heard me, but when i got my first pay and confronted him about it, he acted like I never said anything about the highest pay. He said he didnt hear me wanting the higher rate...bullshit!!!

I know hes just playing stupid - I know how cheapskates think, they will try to lowball you every chance they get. They dont care if youre insulted (which i was), cause they dont give a shit about anyone but themselves.

Hes wanting someone like me with 9yrs exp. in this field working for a JR rate. But yet he doesnt want to hire a fresh graduate. Hahah good luck with that dude, you cant have the best of both worlds.

Like I said the dude is just an fuckin cheapass.

I had a talk with the previous designer yesterday (who quit for the same reason) and he told me the same thing. The guy will try to con me every chance he gets. He said to leave when i can because hes just taking advantage of me and to not believe anything he says because hes all talk but never backs up his promises.

sabad66
10-23-2010, 04:44 PM
Sounds like you're better off not working for the company bro.

darthVWader
10-23-2010, 05:07 PM
Just fuck his wife and call it even.

copynpaste
10-25-2010, 07:57 PM
Cliffs from today

- i gave my 2 weeks notice, told him i have another offer on the table.

- he said he wont pay me a penny more than what im making now. so he obviously doesnt value me that much if at all if hes fighting tooth and nail over $2-3/hr

- he said no offense but i dont think youre ready to handle the workload in a big company. Im like are you serious dude? Before i took this job I was working at city hall for almost a year in the land planning dept. You have absolutely no idea how ridiculous the workload is over there. Call my old boss and tell him that and he would laugh at you. what a total insult.

But at least city hall paid me WHAT IM WORTH and i busted my ass on that job.

- he doesnt want to see me get burned. Hes like so many ppl quit on me to go to big companies then it doesnt work out and they get burned and they want thier job here back. I dont do that.

- he offers stability. and big companies dont? i almost laughed. well if hes paying his designer pennies then no shit hes gonna keep him around til he/she wants to leave cause hes paying them way under their market value.

The bottom line - the longer a worker stays working at his bare min. wage = more $ saved = more $ in his pocket. Dude only cares about him self.

kvg
10-25-2010, 08:16 PM
Good move! Aren't you glad you didn't wait till November to talk to this asshole? What a tool!

Muji
10-25-2010, 08:56 PM
So sad when a Calgary Flame player needs advice on getting a wage bump.

You need to make it past the probation period, typical timeframe is three months. Stab in for a raise at any point before this and you will be shown the door. Wait for the post probation pow-wow and bring up your concerns, if they are fair and you are valued, they will toss a few more bones your way.

You might want to get a soft clarification on the post three month wage expectations. Ant boss is willing to discuss this as it is important to the company that you stay and important to you that all is out on the table.

I once went in and mentioned I was about to start a family (a white lie) and needed to know where my future salary/bonus expectations should realistically be. Walked out with a 20% bump and a promise to keep up the good work. I could have squeezed for more but I knew what my co-workers were making. Always keep an eye on the door for other employment unless you are an owner, you get paid the least someone can get away in paying you. You shop at WalMart? Your company uses the same sense of economic planning, get it cheaper, the better for all. You are always underpaid working for anyone other than yourself, but make no mistake you are very replaceable.

copynpaste
10-25-2010, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by kvg
Good move! Aren't you glad you didn't wait till November to talk to this asshole? What a tool!

Ya man, the dude has done nothing but blantantly insult me since i worked there. you wanna know what he asked me today?

"let me ask you...do you think youre capable of working in a large company with such high demands?"

What the hell kind of manager asks their employee this? Maybe its just me but isnt that kind question totally unprofessional and uncalled for?

Its obvious by him asking that kind of question that he doesnt value me or have any faith in me. So then I asked myself "why would he want to keep me if he has no faith in me?"

Cause i was working for his min. wage and again at the end of the day, its all about the dollars in his pocket. Thats all he cares about.

kvg
10-25-2010, 10:54 PM
I could also be his self doubt be super imposed on you. That's life . I'm not perfect, but it's just wrong to try to hold someone else back by telling them they're not good enough.

copynpaste
10-25-2010, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by kvg
I could also be his self doubt be super imposed on you. That's life . I'm not perfect, but it's just wrong to try to hold someone else back by telling them they're not good enough.

Ya he said hes trying to look out for me, doesnt want to see me get burned by these large companies. Its obvious hes been burned by them in the past cause he has a major beef against them. And thats why he bought his own franchise so he can be his own boss.