Am I doing this right? [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

Mitsu3000gt

10-28-2010, 09:14 AM

I am interested in the replies as well, but since I got a little soft my goal has been to lose core fat/belly fat as well and I've been doing a ton of medium intensity interval cardio. It's working wonders so far, the results are very noticable.

My gym routine is this:

1hr of elliptical (or similar machine) cardio, medium to medium-high intensity, HR around 130-150 bpm.

Then I do biceps, shoulders, and back one day and chest, triceps, and core the next day. I just alternate those two work outs.

After that I do 25 min of medium to high intensity on the bicycle.

When I get home from the gym I have a protein shake with fruit/berries, yogurt, and berry juice.

I haven't been working out my legs specifically because I figure with all the elliptical and cycling I don't need to, and it seems to be working. I also use the elliptical machine where it's kind of like you're climbing more so than running.

I am at the gym 6 days a week, taking Saturdays off which is also my cheat day for food.

The exercise I get throughout the day is about an hour of brisk walking, at lunch hour and to/from work.

As for my diet, I don't do anything too strict, but I definitely watch what I eat. For supper it's always chicken, eggs, cereal, or salmon + veggies. For lunch, usually a turkey sandwich or similar. For breakfast/snacks I usually have a protein bar and fruit.

Anyways I'm extremely happy with the results in only 1.5 months of doing the above, but I'm interested in ways I can improve my routine as well.

max_boost

10-28-2010, 09:45 AM

Yep. Going for show right? Do P90X.

Or if you want to get strong, build muscle and lose fat. www.stronglifts.com

Cut the bs. The shit you see at commercial gyms aren't real workouts. Free weights ftmfw! haha

davidI

10-28-2010, 10:07 PM

8 months ago, I was right about where you are. 5'9", 170 pounds, and carrying some beer weight around the middle.

I'd suggest you gain some muscle (bulk) and then try to lose the fat as otherwise you'll end up skinny-scrawny rather than skinny-fat.

Try this program for 4-5 months - if you eat well and train hard you should be able to get up to 180-185.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/beast_building_part_3

Then, in March, cut down on your caloric intake, continue free-weight training 3-4x a week but also work in 2-3 days of running / biking or other aerobic activity for 30 minutes to an hour. At this time, you'll want to train with higher intensity and keep that heart rate up for a sustained period. It will be all about burning calories but doing your best to keep on muscle at this point.

Try mixing up your training too. See my Muay Thai thread for the type of stuff I'm doing now, rather than the standard weights.

You'll be a jacked 170-175 for summer.

I'm 5'9", 174 and less than 8% bf right now...probably closer to 5% I'd think (I had calipers done before when I was at 8% and I feel way leaner now).

scboss

10-30-2010, 11:46 AM

if anyone here wants just post your bodyweight how many times you workout and your height and i can tell you what your calorie intake should be.
I just learned this in my course just make sure to if you are posting to tell me if you are doing normal workouts or intense workouts.

ie taking 30 sec breaks or taking 5 min breaks

tom_9109

10-30-2010, 01:23 PM

Research "High Intensity Interval Training". Several independent studies show 20 minutes of HIIT is more effective than 45-60 minutes of steady state cardio. Work smarter, not harder.

J-hop

10-31-2010, 10:22 AM

tom_9109

10-31-2010, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by J-hop
also, a lot of the fad diets will allow you a "cheat day", don't take a full cheat day, I've read articles that have shown that when trying to lose fat a cheat day can set back your whole weeks worth of work, which makes sense, instead take one or two cheat meals per week and obviously don't go overboard.

Totally correct. Avoid any sort of cheating. Look at it like this. The goal for 'healthy' weight loss is an average of 2 pounds per week which equals approximately a 6000 calorie deficit per week.

Lets say you go out for a HUGE meal with appetizer and dessert and drink a few beer you'll likely consume 3000+ calories.

Theres 1/2 of your weeks hard work gone.

If you're serious and want results, determine how long you need to reach them, plan it out and stick too it, save the 'cheat days' for when you're at your goal weight and limit them to once or twice a month.

lint

11-01-2010, 11:26 AM

http://stronglifts.com/happy-halloween/

Happy Halloween!
Nov 1st, 2010 by Mehdi

“Count” Mehdi wishes you a happy Halloween. Do me a favor and frighten those guys doing Frankenstein workouts in your gym by doing monster sets of batty parallel Squats, spook-tacular Deadlifts and ghastly Presses.

Here in Belgium we don’t really celebrate Halloween like in the US. Kids don’t walk around doing trick-and-treat. Frankly, the only thing I knew about Halloween when I grew up was what I saw in American movies and TV shows.

Then about 10y ago some nightclubs started having halloween-themed parties. It was new and cool. Soon all clubs followed, and then stores started selling Halloween costumes and decorations. Before my 20s I never saw any of this. Call it the Americanization of Europe. What I think of it? That it’s a smart move from businesses in Belgium, they created a new source of income.

Now if I was celebrating Halloween, I would just eat whatever comes to the table. I wouldn’t touch candy though because I don’t like it (I’m a chocolate guy). Then the meal after I’d just go back to my regular diet.

2 important things you need to keep in mind:

* one meal doesn’t matter – average caloric intake does
* being too “rigid” with your diet will work against you
I’ll be talking more about this as Thanksgiving comes closer.

Happy Halloween again!

In addition, free meals/days also help to up-regulate hormone levels, which can get out of whack depending on how hard you diet. Free meals also help your mental state. Looking forward to wings on wednesday or a night out on saturday can help you get through tough diet days.

Zero tolerance policies, puking when you lift, cardio till you drop .... fuck can we stop with the bro-science bullshit already?

turbotrip

11-01-2010, 02:37 PM

check out Max OT cardio

Mitsu3000gt

11-01-2010, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by warcaster
if anyone here wants just post your bodyweight how many times you workout and your height and i can tell you what your calorie intake should be.
I just learned this in my course just make sure to if you are posting to tell me if you are doing normal workouts or intense workouts.

ie taking 30 sec breaks or taking 5 min breaks

I'm curious.

I work out 6-7 days a week. Routine is roughly as follows every day:

1hr medium to medium-high intensity on an elliptical. No breaks.

45min to an hour of weights, alternating muscle groups each day. 1-2 min break between sets.

25 min high intensity bicycle to finish off the workout. No breaks.

1hr brisk walking (commute) 5 days a week in four 15min increments.

I am 5'10", 167-170 lbs (in the morning). Used to be 184lbs.

Thanks!

gqmw

11-01-2010, 07:13 PM

Neil, do you do an ab workout at all?

You don't really need to jump back on the bike or whatever for the 1-2 minute sprint between exercises. Just take less breaks between exercises/sets and you'll keep your heart rate up.

And...if you're an overall skinny guy, you're probably better off just bulking and the "fat" will just end up not being there.

scboss

11-01-2010, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt

I'm curious.

I work out 6-7 days a week. Routine is roughly as follows every day:

1hr medium to medium-high intensity on an elliptical. No breaks.

45min to an hour of weights, alternating muscle groups each day. 1-2 min break between sets.

25 min high intensity bicycle to finish off the workout. No breaks.

1hr brisk walking (commute) 5 days a week in four 15min increments.

I am 5'10", 167-170 lbs (in the morning). Used to be 184lbs.

Thanks!

You can eat around 3600 a day if you are working out this hard. If you want to lose weight cut around 400 calories at this pace. Keep in mind this is healthy calories not nasty fast food ones

Do not go over your daily intakes according to the food guide for trans fat and saturated fat

Right now im 200 pounds and i can eat 4200 calories a day to keep my weight the same and im working out 4 days with weights at golds and 3 days cardio at mount royals indoor track.
Ive been trying to gain weight but eating over this many calories while still being healthy has been tough. Although ive been putting on about one pound of lean mass every 1 - 1 1/2 months

scboss

11-01-2010, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by Neil4Speed
Hey Guys,

Want a bit of advice on something I have started doing for the last two weeks ago, not really based on anything I have read, but more so "my logic" - wonder if if it will work.

I weight train about 4-5 times a week, LegsX2 (Core on one day), Shoulders Core, Back/Bi, Chest Tri. I usually do a hard interval bike on the spinning bike for about 10 minutes, which gets my heart rate up pretty high and a good sweat on. When I go through doing my sets, I will sometimes jump back on the bike for a quick 1-2 minute hard sprint to jump up my heart rate again.

My logic for this is that I have heard that keeping your heart rate up is a major component of fat burn. Right now I am a bit "skinny fat", if that makes any sense, about 170lbs, 5'9. I want to get rid of some of my fat that is stored around my core (obviously not trying to spot reduce) while maintaining my muscle strength and definition.

What do you guys think? Or is there a more effective way to achive my goals.

You should not be going over 3000 calories a day unless you up your cardio. What are you doing on your legs and back day to need a another core day?

If your really serious about this you gotta change your plan 10 minutes of cardio does nothing. Pretty much doing 10 minutes is a warm up you need at least 20 minutes to even do anything.

Instead of going to the bike try taking shorter breaks or super setting stuff. For a while i was around 215 with a huge gut, I upped the cardio and took 30 sec breaks now im a cut 200.

Set aside 2 days just for cardio you will see a huge difference. Just my 2cents

Edit - Also i havnt done one crunch in over a year and i have a six pack. Just squat, deadlift, do cardio and eat healthy.

msommers

11-01-2010, 08:32 PM

Suppose I could get mine figured out as well.

5x5 stronglift 3 times a week, dodgeball one night and indoor soccer another.

I'm 5'5 and approx. 140lbs

scboss

11-01-2010, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by msommers
Suppose I could get mine figured out as well.

5x5 stronglift 3 times a week, dodgeball one night and indoor soccer another.

I'm 5'5 and approx. 140lbs

2541 calories to stay the same weight

ddduke

11-01-2010, 10:51 PM

scboss

11-01-2010, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by ddduke

I'm 5'11, between 178 and 183 lbs.

Work out 5-6 times a week, just do a 5 min warmup on elliptical then 1 muscle group for about an hour afterwards with 30 second breaks.

i cant wait till i can charge for this

3230 for daily maintenance if u up the cardio it would be more around 3700

lint

11-01-2010, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by warcaster
i cant wait till i can charge for this

for what? using the cunningham equation? http://stronglifts.com/forum/the-cunningham-equation-an-accurate-way-to-predict-calories-t13712.html

or for throwing out caloric requirements based on body weight vs lean mass?

scboss

11-01-2010, 11:39 PM

neither it is based on how much u work out/weight/height. Its just the 1st step though obviously and a true test would also be using calipers and a couple other things.

Im switching careers right now and im at mru taking the personal fitness trainer program.

lint

11-02-2010, 12:18 AM

so based on the formula you're using in this thread a 200 lb man at 25% bf has the same caloric needs than a 200 lb man at 8% bf, given they are the same height and both work out?

Mitsu3000gt

11-02-2010, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by warcaster

You can eat around 3600 a day if you are working out this hard. If you want to lose weight cut around 400 calories at this pace. Keep in mind this is healthy calories not nasty fast food ones

Do not go over your daily intakes according to the food guide for trans fat and saturated fat

Right now im 200 pounds and i can eat 4200 calories a day to keep my weight the same and im working out 4 days with weights at golds and 3 days cardio at mount royals indoor track.
Ive been trying to gain weight but eating over this many calories while still being healthy has been tough. Although ive been putting on about one pound of lean mass every 1 - 1 1/2 months

Interesting, thanks. I don't think I am eating 3600 a day though haha - that seems like a lot.

scboss

11-02-2010, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by lint
so based on the formula you're using in this thread a 200 lb man at 25% bf has the same caloric needs than a 200 lb man at 8% bf, given they are the same height and both work out?

The amount i have gave is to stay the exact same based on how much they workout not based on fat loss.

scboss

11-02-2010, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt

Interesting, thanks. I don't think I am eating 3600 a day though haha - that seems like a lot.

Yeah i hear you esp if they are healthy calories, for me hitting 4200 is so hard and that why ive been at around 200 for a while. I could get 2200 a day from getting full once at mcdonalds tho haha oh the temptations

one milkshake from there is over 1000 calories so crazy

scboss

11-02-2010, 07:34 PM

http://www1.mcdonalds.com/bagamcmeal/

check this out
if u get big mac meal super sized with a chocolate milkshake and a extra big mac ur hitting 2750 lmao

lint

11-02-2010, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by warcaster
The amount i have gave is to stay the exact same based on how much they workout not based on fat loss.

Where did I say fat loss?

Caloric needs, whether for maintenance, fat loss or weight gain need to be based on lean mass (or fat free mass), not over all body weight. Giving the same maintenance calories to a 200lb man at 25% BF (150lbs FFM) and another 200lb man at 8% BF (184lbs FFM) is absolutely incorrect.

I really hope that's not what you're being taught to teach in your personal trainer course.

scboss

11-02-2010, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by lint

Where did I say fat loss?

Caloric needs, whether for maintenance, fat loss or weight gain need to be based on lean mass (or fat free mass), not over all body weight. Giving the same maintenance calories to a 200lb man at 25% BF (150lbs FFM) and another 200lb man at 8% BF (184lbs FFM) is absolutely incorrect.

I really hope that's not what you're being taught to teach in your personal trainer course.

No kidding im just gonna do bf% tests over the internet???????
Im telling them GENERAL calories needed based on how much they workout(intensity) and their bodies natural processes. In order to do a full assessment the client has to be present so you can do all the tests. Obviously you could say their are faults in what ive said even the stuff you have posted has faults.
Unless you have had your BF% tested by a pro you are just taking shots in the dark.

Do what lint says just search the internet i know nothing:rofl: Sorry for the :hijack:

lint

11-03-2010, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by warcaster
No kidding im just gonna do bf% tests over the internet???????
Im telling them GENERAL calories needed based on how much they workout(intensity) and their bodies natural processes. In order to do a full assessment the client has to be present so you can do all the tests. Obviously you could say their are faults in what ive said even the stuff you have posted has faults.
Unless you have had your BF% tested by a pro you are just taking shots in the dark.

Do what lint says just search the internet i know nothing:rofl: Sorry for the :hijack:

You can't measure body fat over the internet, but you can measure "workout(intensity) and their bodies natural process" of people you've never seen or met?? care to explain how that works?

you come up with caloric numbers for people and you don't post a source? why not use the cunningham equation? because it might eat into your future potential to charge money for this "service"?

obviously there are faults with what you've said, not only in this thread but in others. what was it again? things your body can't digest make you fat, right?

feel free to point out the fault in what I said though. I'd like to hear the critique from such a learned personal trainer in training.

scboss

11-03-2010, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by lint

You can't measure body fat over the internet, but you can measure "workout(intensity) and their bodies natural process" of people you've never seen or met?? care to explain how that works?

you come up with caloric numbers for people and you don't post a source? why not use the cunningham equation? because it might eat into your future potential to charge money for this "service"?

obviously there are faults with what you've said, not only in this thread but in others. what was it again? things your body can't digest make you fat, right?

feel free to point out the fault in what I said though. I'd like to hear the critique from such a learned personal trainer in training.

like you said im in training so obviously i still have much to learn. Keep hating :D not once did i say i know more then anyone on this forum its just opinions based on what ive learned so far.

My source is a text book your source is the internet. I dont plan on charging for this, i plan on charging for training which includes initial consultations. Instead of addressing the problems you have with things straight out of my text book why dont you address the initial posters problem.

Btw if you didnt understand me before i said i was wrong, things you dont digest feed the bacteria in your intestines making you bloated and make you appear fat.
Keep hating:thumbsup:

Back on topic:hijack:

Neil4Speed

11-03-2010, 07:12 AM

Sorry for the late response - I should get alerts when my threads get new posts .

Thanks everyone for their responses

Originally posted by warcaster

You should not be going over 3000 calories a day unless you up your cardio. What are you doing on your legs and back day to need a another core day?

If your really serious about this you gotta change your plan 10 minutes of cardio does nothing. Pretty much doing 10 minutes is a warm up you need at least 20 minutes to even do anything.

Instead of going to the bike try taking shorter breaks or super setting stuff. For a while i was around 215 with a huge gut, I upped the cardio and took 30 sec breaks now im a cut 200.

Set aside 2 days just for cardio you will see a huge difference. Just my 2cents

Edit - Also i havnt done one crunch in over a year and i have a six pack. Just squat, deadlift, do cardio and eat healthy.

Thanks for the tips man, I have started doing squats and deadlifts, but pretty mild weight - I have pretty bad knees and lb, so I don't really want to push through anything weight wise - so I am really doing only 45 per side with about 10-12 reps. I also do squats on the half ball for balance and core.

My calories are pretty low, under 2000 for sure - eating mostly high protein foods and then one shake before I Go to bed.

Thanks for the tip on the supersets, I will give that a shot.

Originally posted by gqmw
Neil, do you do an ab workout at all?

You don't really need to jump back on the bike or whatever for the 1-2 minute sprint between exercises. Just take less breaks between exercises/sets and you'll keep your heart rate up.

And...if you're an overall skinny guy, you're probably better off just bulking and the "fat" will just end up not being there.

I do do a AB workout twice a week. I will try lowering the times between sets and see how that works for me. Shorter workouts is also a plus.

lint

11-03-2010, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by warcaster
like you said im in training so obviously i still have much to learn. Keep hating :D not once did i say i know more then anyone on this forum its just opinions based on what ive learned so far.

My source is a text book your source is the internet. I dont plan on charging for this, i plan on charging for training which includes initial consultations. Instead of addressing the problems you have with things straight out of my text book why dont you address the initial posters problem.

Btw if you didnt understand me before i said i was wrong, things you dont digest feed the bacteria in your intestines making you bloated and make you appear fat.
Keep hating:thumbsup:

Back on topic:hijack:

you do realize you are posting information on the very same Internet, right? the one that you seem to think invalidates the info I'm posting.

as for the op's question, I've posted more than enough info and sources in various threads in this section, all he has to do is search and read. but he hasnt and I would guess most likely won't. it's not rocket science, in fact for 90+% of people to see results and reach some goals it's dead fucking simple. but it's not easy. log every damn thing you put into your mouth. weigh every damn thing. do this for a couple of weeks so you KNOW how many cals you're eating, don't guess. most people underestimate the cals they eat and over estimate the cals they burn.

you don't need hours of cardio to lose fat, and unless you have a vagina, toninig shouldn't be in your vocabulary

lint

11-03-2010, 08:21 AM

oh and my Internet sources are guys like Jim Wendler, Dan John, Mark Rippetoe, Glenn Pendlay, Bill Starr, Lyle McDonald, Dave Tate and sites like tnation, stronglifts, startingstrength, performancemenu, elitefts, bodyrecomposition, the tight tan slacks of dezso ban. but they must be a bunch of Internet nobodies

max_boost

11-03-2010, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by Neil4Speed
Sorry for the late response - I should get alerts when my threads get new posts .

Thanks everyone for their responses

Thanks for the tips man, I have started doing squats and deadlifts, but pretty mild weight - I have pretty bad knees and lb, so I don't really want to push through anything weight wise - so I am really doing only 45 per side with about 10-12 reps. I also do squats on the half ball for balance and core.

My calories are pretty low, under 2000 for sure - eating mostly high protein foods and then one shake before I Go to bed.

Thanks for the tip on the supersets, I will give that a shot.

I do do a AB workout twice a week. I will try lowering the times between sets and see how that works for me. Shorter workouts is also a plus.

Squatting will strengthen your knee if done properly.

How to squat
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-squat-with-proper-technique-fix-common-problems/

How to deadlift
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-deadlift-with-proper-technique/

Neil4Speed

11-03-2010, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by lint

as for the op's question, I've posted more than enough info and sources in various threads in this section, all he has to do is search and read. but he hasnt and I would guess most likely won't. it's not rocket science, in fact for 90+% of people to see results and reach some goals it's dead fucking simple. but it's not easy. log every damn thing you put into your mouth. weigh every damn thing. do this for a couple of weeks so you KNOW how many cals you're eating, don't guess. most people underestimate the cals they eat and over estimate the cals they burn.

Hey Lint, apologies for not repsonding to your post specifically - but I did read through your content and I know that you are a workout authority on here, I appreciate your input. I was logging for about a week while I was keeping a consistent diet and just wanted to give a rough estimate, I was averaging out at around 1800 on weekdays.

You do seem a bit jaded on this section of the forum though :) A few too many people asking "How do I get muscles like Pauly D", "I look like Drew Carey, help me look like Brad Pitt."

Neil4Speed

11-03-2010, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by max_boost

Squatting will strengthen your knee if done properly.

How to squat
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-squat-with-proper-technique-fix-common-problems/

How to deadlift
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-deadlift-with-proper-technique/

Thanks man, appreciate the links, will refer to in the gym.

max_boost

11-03-2010, 10:54 AM

Lint needs a new user title, jaded weight lifting nazi or something to that effect :rofl:

lint

11-03-2010, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by max_boost
Lint needs a new user title, jaded weight lifting nazi or something to that effect :rofl:

asshole will suffice

on second thought, maybe I need to Real Talk™ it

cdaAWFoWr2c

scboss

11-04-2010, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by lint
oh and my Internet sources are guys like Jim Wendler, Dan John, Mark Rippetoe, Glenn Pendlay, Bill Starr, Lyle McDonald, Dave Tate and sites like tnation, stronglifts, startingstrength, performancemenu, elitefts, bodyrecomposition, the tight tan slacks of dezso ban. but they must be a bunch of Internet nobodies

If you think im hating on any of these guys your crazy, all i said was my info came out of my text. Doing cardio to tone is pretty lame.
Doing cardio to lose shit tons of fat and keep your heart healthy is a different story.

Btw max boost thanks for posting those links on squat form very good read, my applied movement teacher(rehab background) tells me that you shouldn't go past 90 degrees, Where my strength and conditioning teacher tells me the only way to get maximum power is ass to the ground.

Ive been doing ass to the ground for 3 weeks now and damn you can really feel the difference!

msommers

11-04-2010, 03:42 PM

My knees have definitely gotten more clicky and sore in the morning and throughout the day since I started doing ass-to-grass. Considering not going down as far but I'd like to keep the whole program consistent throughout to see how I fair..

max_boost

11-04-2010, 03:55 PM

msommers, are you doing the squats properly? Honestly I feel ZERO knee pain.

My limping around the day after squatting is due to soreness in my abductors and quads. My knees are completely unaffected. :dunno:

Read below.

Originally posted by max_boost
From what I know about squats, to get to depth your knees will go forward past your toes slightly and that's OK (maybe it's me? short and chubby legs with no flexibility? :rofl: )The key is to shove your knees and don't let them buckle in. You'll feel the stretch in your abductors.

To give you an idea, just do a body weight squat, in the bottom position, take your elbows and push your knee outwards. That's the stretch in your abductors, you'll notice you break parallel too. No half ass squats. :D

I'll try to find a picture explaining the above.

:D

http://stronglifts.com/wp-content/uploads/squat-stretch.jpg

As usual, refer to www.stronglifts.com

http://stronglifts.com/how-to-squat-with-proper-technique-fix-common-problems/

jonnycat

11-04-2010, 04:34 PM

I had gotten a tad softer than I like, so I decided to hit the gym in June at 215lbs at 6'1". I had been 205 for years and then one day I realized I wasn't 205 anymore.

I now go to the gym 3 times a week. 40 mins on weights taking 30 sec. to one minute breaks between sets.

Day 1. Chest
Day 2. Shoulders, Back and Legs
Day 3. Arms

After weights I hit the ellipitical for 20-25 minutes.
I typically get my heart rate around 140-150, then power out up to a HR of 170, slow down to a heart rate of 140-150 and then back up to the 170 range, etc.

I've scaled back to 203 at last weigh in and have gained strength. No idea how much is fat loss and how much is muscle gain out of the 12 lbs that are gone.

My diet isnt great still but I have been more conscious of my caloric intake and have cut out ridiculous foods that would still leave me hungry even if I ate them. I have replaced pop with Crystal light ice tea and protein shakes. On nights where I am starving, I only allow myself cereal, usually mini wheats.

I do admit though that some weight loss may be attributed to the gigantic shits that mini wheats may cause.

msommers

11-04-2010, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by max_boost
msommers, are you doing the squats properly? Honestly I feel ZERO knee pain.

My limping around the day after squatting is due to soreness in my abductors and quads. My knees are completely unaffected. :dunno:

Read below.

My knees have been kinda crappy anyways but I might be doing something wrong. While I'm doing squats and throughout the workout I'm fine and can tell my quads are working but it's after and throughout the day while I sit at my desk I notice I have to have crack my knees to relieve the pain.

Maybe it's my Vibrams I wear to the gym...never considered that actually.

J-hop

11-07-2010, 12:44 AM

max_boost

11-07-2010, 01:58 AM

http://www.crossfitsantacruz.com/.a/6a00d834515d6769e2010537182b44970b-500wi

lint

11-09-2010, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by J-hop
I was talking to my personal trainer bud and he did not recommend ass to ground, the amount of stress this adds to the knee joint is tremendous,

You need to stop giving "advice".

Have you ever seen weightlifting in the olympics? Have you noticed that pretty much all will hit rock bottom in the clean and the snatch? If low squats are that dangerous, why aren't there more weightlifters on crutches, in wheelchairs due to bad knees? Why is it that the people who all seem to have knee problems don't squat properly in the first place and are the ones advising against going below parallel?

lint

11-09-2010, 09:48 AM

In support of calories in calories out: Lose 27 lbs in 2 months

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html

For 10 weeks, Mark Haub, a professor of human nutrition at Kansas State University, ate one of these sugary cakelets every three hours, instead of meals. To add variety in his steady stream of Hostess and Little Debbie snacks, Haub munched on Doritos chips, sugary cereals and Oreos, too. His premise: That in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most -- not the nutritional value of the food. The premise held up: On his "convenience store diet," he shed 27 pounds in two months. For a class project, Haub limited himself to less than 1,800 calories a day. A man of Haub's pre-dieting size usually consumes about 2,600 calories daily. So he followed a basic principle of weight loss: He consumed significantly fewer calories than he burned.
His body mass index went from 28.8, considered overweight, to 24.9, which is normal. He now weighs 174 pounds.
But you might expect other indicators of health would have suffered. Not so.
Haub's "bad" cholesterol, or LDL, dropped 20 percent and his "good" cholesterol, or HDL, increased by 20 percent. He reduced the level of triglycerides, which are a form of fat, by 39 percent.
"That's where the head scratching comes," Haub said. "What does that mean? Does that mean I'm healthier? Or does it mean how we define health from a biology standpoint, that we're missing something?"
Despite his temporary success, Haub does not recommend replicating his snack-centric diet.
"I'm not geared to say this is a good thing to do," he said. "I'm stuck in the middle. I guess that's the frustrating part. I can't give a concrete answer. There's not enough information to do that."
Two-thirds of his total intake came from junk food. He also took a multivitamin pill and drank a protein shake daily. And he ate vegetables, typically a can of green beans or three to four celery stalks.
Families who live in food deserts have limited access to fresh fruits and vegetables, so they often rely on the kind of food Haub was eating.
"These foods are consumed by lots of people," he said. "It may be an issue of portion size and moderation rather than total removal. I just think it's unrealistic to expect people to totally drop these foods for vegetables and fruits. It may be healthy, but not realistic."
Haub's body fat dropped from 33.4 to 24.9 percent. This posed the question: What matters more for weight loss, the quantity or quality of calories?
His success is probably a result of caloric reduction, said Dawn Jackson Blatner, a dietitian based in Atlanta, Georgia.
"It's a great reminder for weight loss that calories count," she said. "Is that the bottom line to being healthy? That's another story."
Blatner, a spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association, said she's not surprised to hear Haub's health markers improved even when he loaded up on processed snack cakes.
Being overweight is the central problem that leads to complications like high blood pressure, diabetes and high cholesterol, she said.
How well are you managing your diabetes?
"When you lose weight, regardless of how you're doing it -- even if it's with packaged foods, generally you will see these markers improve when weight loss has improved," she said.
Before jumping on the Ding Dong bandwagon, Blatner warned of health concerns.
"There are things we can't measure," said Blatner, questioning how the lack of fruits and vegetables could affect long-term health. "How much does that affect the risk for cancer? We can't measure how diet changes affect our health."
I was eating healthier, but I wasn't healthy. I was eating too much.
On August 25, Haub, 41, started his cake diet focusing on portion control.
"I'm eating to the point of need and pushing the plate or wrapper away," he said.
He intended the trial to last a month as a teaching tool for his class. As he lost weight, Haub continued the diet until he reached a normal body mass index.
Before his Twinkie diet, he tried to eat a healthy diet that included whole grains, dietary fiber, berries and bananas, vegetables and occasional treats like pizza.
"There seems to be a disconnect between eating healthy and being healthy," Haub said. "It may not be the same. I was eating healthier, but I wasn't healthy. I was eating too much."
He maintained the same level of moderate physical activity as before going on the diet. (Haub does not have any ties to the snack cake companies.)
To avoid setting a bad example for his kids, Haub ate vegetables in front of his family. Away from the dinner table, he usually unwrapped his meals.
Study: U.S. obesity rate will hit 42 percent
Haub monitored his body composition, blood pressure, cholesterol and glucose, and updated his progress on his Facebook page, Professor Haub's diet experiment.
To curb calories, he avoided meat, whole grains and fruits. Once he started adding meat into the diet four weeks ago, his cholesterol level increased.
Haub plans to add about 300 calories to his daily intake now that he's done with the diet. But he's not ditching snack cakes altogether. Despite his weight loss, Haub feels ambivalence.
"I wish I could say the outcomes are unhealthy. I wish I could say it's healthy. I'm not confident enough in doing that. That frustrates a lot of people. One side says it's irresponsible. It is unhealthy, but the data doesn't say that."

Haub's sample day
Espresso, Double: 6 calories; 0 grams of fat

Hostess Twinkies Golden Sponge Cake: 150 calories; 5 grams of fat

Centrum Advanced Formula From A To Zinc: 0 calories; 0 grams of fat

Little Debbie Star Crunch: 150 calories; 6 grams of fat

Hostess Twinkies Golden Sponge Cake: 150 calories; 5 grams of fat

Diet Mountain Dew: 0 calories; 0 grams of fat

Doritos Cool Ranch: 75 calories; 4 grams of fat

Kellogg's Corn Pops: 220 calories; 0 grams of fat

whole milk: 150 calories; 8 grams of fat

baby carrots: 18 calories; 0 grams of fat

Duncan Hines Family Style Brownie Chewy Fudge: 270 calories; 14 grams of fat

Little Debbie Zebra Cake: 160 calories; 8 grams of fat

Muscle Milk Protein Shake: 240 calories; 9 grams of fat

Totals: 1,589 calories and 59 grams of fat

Neil4Speed

11-09-2010, 09:55 AM

Good article, really interesting to read - makes sense!

I wonder how his Satiety was during that experiement, as well as his energy levels/general mood.

I am not going to lie, I love my new healthier food choices. Really works for me.

msommers

11-09-2010, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by J-hop
I used to have clicky knees but I found stretching before and after and maintaining good squat form has eliminated my knee click and associated pain entirely. not sure if its the squats or the stretching or a combination of the two that helped me eliminate my knee issues but whatever it is worked!!!

What stretches did you do? I definitely notice my first set is kinda tough but the second and onwards I'm definitely warmed up so maybe stretches would help out. Darkane recommended some activation exercises, I should get on that.

My form must have been off the other day, I caught my heels coming off slightly and likely leaning forward too much and I think that may have contributed to it. Because Sunday I was pushing heavier weight, and that day and the one after it was the "usual" amount of clickyness I've always had; not nearly as painful as what I had before.

I'd be very curious about what has been published in terms of stress on the knee joint. I mean, there should be something that can measure stress on the joint and shut down the 'yah or nah' of ass-to-grass for good.

lint

11-09-2010, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by msommers
I'd be very curious about what has been published in terms of stress on the knee joint. I mean, there should be something that can measure stress on the joint and shut down the 'yah or nah' of ass-to-grass for good.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=3012063#post3012063

liquidboi69

11-09-2010, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by msommers
there should be something that can measure stress on the joint and shut down the 'yah or nah' of ass-to-grass for good.
I've spent some time reading journals/studies about squatting stress on knees on PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed). This is a website where basically medical studies are reported/this website is used as a medical reference.

What I've come to conclude is basically squatting deep isn't the issue. It's squatting deep IMPROPERLY that's the issue. There were a few studies that showed greater stress on tendons when going deeper, but these studies gathered a bunch of people that may not even know how to properly squat/may not be flexible/may not have their knees track properly.

It also has studies that show that the worst exercises for your knee is any quad/hamstring curls (machine) due to uneven loading. I'm making an assumption by saying this, but you can conclude that if this was the case...uneven loading by doing 1/4 squats can also cause more stress on tendons.

Also, what is a greater amount of stress? This is relative...as it could still be an acceptable amount. The highest amount of stress was hamstring/quad curls...however people still see this as an acceptable amount of stress. So why do people not see squatting deep as acceptable if they find hamstring/quad curls acceptable?

Basically my conclusion was that deep squats are good because they balance the knee load. HOWEVER, doing them improperly negates this. But even if it was negated...there are many other exercises that are equally as bad for you on the knees.

In addition to this, it is safer to not do plyometric jumping squats due to it's impact on the knee...and safer to do say banded squats for speedwork, or what they refer to as "Closed Kinetic Chain Exercises"...which I believe are just exercises where you never leave the ground.

msommers

11-09-2010, 12:35 PM

If that is the case then, why trainers still being taught the other way? I mean, there is no monetary value in teaching one way or the other. Are trainers not good with teaching form and thus, going to 90 will reduce short-term injury vs bad form going deep? I just don't understand it if shit has been published. Is there a lack of definitive evidence that going to 90 will cause injury and uneven muscle development where as going deep will not given form is maintained?

I'll try to look more on PubMed and OVID as well and see if I can dig up a couple things.

liquidboi69

11-09-2010, 02:11 PM

^ Because normally personal trainers don't know shit about serious training. How many personal trainers out there do you think can teach good form for OLY or PL lifting? There are also tonnes of fitness trainers with different certifications. Some are super easy to get and don't mean shit...whereas some actually are useful.

I know a trainer in golds northland that powerlifts/has a Canadian bench record. I'm sure he would advocate at least breaking parallel.

lint

11-09-2010, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by msommers
If that is the case then, why trainers still being taught the other way? I mean, there is no monetary value in teaching one way or the other. Are trainers not good with teaching form and thus, going to 90 will reduce short-term injury vs bad form going deep? I just don't understand it if shit has been published. Is there a lack of definitive evidence that going to 90 will cause injury and uneven muscle development where as going deep will not given form is maintained?

I'll try to look more on PubMed and OVID as well and see if I can dig up a couple things.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/most_lifters_are_still_beginners

The National Scam Association?

Rippetoe was in the first group that wrote the National Strength and Conditioning Association's CSCS exam in 1985, and in 2008 became the first member to relinquish his designation mid-session.

"I wasn't the first CSCS to let their accreditation expire, but I was the first to actively renounce it. I did it to make a statement — to show my growing disgust with some of the people and the nonsense they're publishing.

I could no longer be associated with their bullshit."

Rip says you need to look no further than the strength and conditioning journal the NSCA publishes each month to see why he felt the way he did.

"They actually published a study that concluded a one-rep max bench press performed on a standard flat bench was the same as one performed on a Swiss ball. What kind of populations are we dealing with here? Do these people have any gym experience whatsoever?

Another study concluded that there was no hip extension in the squat — and it had eight or nine citations! How could this possibly even pass peer review?"

It seems fitting that Rip's breaking point was an article published in the journal pertaining to periodization: how to periodize abdominal training.

"That was the last straw. I was already embarrassed of the shit I was being associated with, this needless complexity for complexities' sake."

Rip says the desire for many of those in the upper echelons of the strength and conditioning community to be seen as clinicians contributed to the certifying bodies losing their way.

"By disregarding any evidence that isn't peer reviewed, they lost sight of the big picture.

Let me ask you this: Is there anyone who would suggest that the only evidence of value is peer reviewed, that the anecdotal has no value?

Just because you can't find peer reviewed science to support something doesn't make it untrue."

Personal trainers squat like this:
F6xC1fpNGbg
and this http://www.goldsgym.com/healthy/newsletter/week4/the-squat-simplified.html

Listen to a guy who squats like this
XCGysPVDAzc

msommers

11-09-2010, 02:14 PM

That's actually disappointing to hear lol. There was mention in this or another thread about a guy at MRC that had two different opinions from two different profs. Doesn't make sense. I should talk to a friend who graduated from kines last year of what they teach.

I'll keep doing what I'm doing and make sure my form is always in check, God knows I don't want worse knees :rofl:

max_boost

11-09-2010, 02:45 PM

msommers, post a vid of your squat. :D

scboss

11-09-2010, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by msommers
That's actually disappointing to hear lol. There was mention in this or another thread about a guy at MRC that had two different opinions from two different profs. Doesn't make sense. I should talk to a friend who graduated from kines last year of what they teach.

I'll keep doing what I'm doing and make sure my form is always in check, God knows I don't want worse knees :rofl:

That was me and i talked to my prof's, the reason why the one told me to only go parallel is because once you go past that if your form is bad then your knees will get injured no questions asked.

My strength and conditioning teacher showed us the form and told us that ass to the ground is the only way to get "true power" in your legs besides deadlifts.

Pretty much i think the point the first prof was trying to get across is that if i show them ass to the ground when im there its ok, when im not there and they mess up the form im liable for injuries.

For myself i will only do ass to the ground for now on.

liquidboi69

11-09-2010, 10:21 PM

^ Ya that's what I figured/said in my post above...based on my short amount of research. I figured trainers refrained due to liability reasons. Also due to the fact that alot of trainers can't teach proper form.

max_boost

11-11-2010, 12:13 PM

msommers, don't be the dude on the right.

jTbf0rOoMLg

msommers

11-11-2010, 04:04 PM

Ha. I remember there is this other guy that is usually there in the mornings. He doesn't look like a big guy, had 2x45's a side loaded up and thought I'd pay attention to what he did. Was exactly like that, made me laugh inside.

Funny thing about that video, I go as low as that chick does or maybe a bit more actually. Her posture looks really awkward though. Seems like she is leaning forward too much.

LOL just caught the title of the video

J-hop

11-13-2010, 12:28 PM

max_boost

11-14-2010, 10:29 AM

^^^

Well it's clear that the people you are learning from don't know squat. :rofl:

Post a video of your squat because I would like to see what "good squat form" is.

:thumbsup:

liquidboi69

11-14-2010, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by J-hop

1) a lot of olympic lifters DO have knee problems later in life

Most of the reasons Olympic liters have knee problems later in life is because of the split jerk from what I understand. Tommy Konno screwed up his knee doing this in an exhibition. Also Pyrro Dimas changed from split jerking to squat jerking because it's easier on the knee.

The split jerk is a movement with ROM less than 90 degrees/their front knee takes tonnes of uneven loading. This is why they mess up their knees from what I understand (for those who did..) Also, Olympic lifting employs jumping/explosiveness. I'd imagine alot of the problems comes from patellar tendonitis/jumpers knee. So if anything, the split and the jump that messes their knees up...not the squat.

There's only three ways I can see them messing their knees from squatting; #1) some oly lifters unrack the bar with one leg instead of two...for a reason I don't understand. #2) They bomb their squats down to exploit the stretch reflex and their form wasn't good enough to do this safely. #3) Losing balance on a snatch and trying to recover, making one pitch forward/stepping forward while in a half overhead squat position (knee extremely forward.)

None of these have anything to do with back squat depth.

Originally posted by J-hop

2) it is called knee wraps, most of them must wrap their knees or they will blow them out
Their "bandage" wraps do almost nothing for support compared to powerlifting's wraps. I'm sure they would not "blow out" if they didn't wear wraps (which not all of them do...)

Also, knee wraps aren't primarily used to prevent "blowouts." What they're primary use for is to move more weight since they give you some elasticity out of the bottom. I maxed my squat and my wrap squat and there was ~5% difference. People advertise it as "safety" so it sounds better (not every lifter will admit this.) There's very little "safety" mentality here. If they don't give poundage (ie. olympic wraps), they will give almost no support/won't really prevent knee BLOWOUTS....only strains and pains/ensure the joint is warm. It's clear you've never used wraps/can't speak for wrap users.

J-hop

11-14-2010, 08:46 PM

liquidboi69

11-14-2010, 09:35 PM

^I'm not saying it doesn't...but that is not why people use them. People use them to get more weight...no one cares about the safety aspect or cares very little. And the wraps that the OLY guys use have so little support it makes minimal difference.

Also, I don't know where I read this...it might have been a user on this forum or some other forum. But there have been cases where volleyball/basketball teams suffer from jumpers knee. When their coach prescribed lunges..and eventually progressed to full squats...their knee problems disappeared. Even if you don't use that ROM in the sport....you still need to have symmetry in your muscles for joint safety. Physio's will tell you if you have shoulder problems...it's likely because you don't pair benching with lats. Shoulder protraction/retraction. Why would any other exercise be different. You have to work the quad antagonists to balance the knee (hamstrings.)

J-hop

11-14-2010, 10:55 PM

max_boost

11-15-2010, 12:51 AM

Myth #2: Full Squats (below parallel) Are Bad For The Knees

More squat myths?!?

We’ve all heard it, if you dip below parallel during a squat, your kneecap will blow off and land in the front desk girl’s mocha latte. Well it just ain’t true! What’s that, you need a little more evidence? Ok boys and girls, its time for today’s episode of Fun With Musculoskeletal Anatomy.

The knee has four main protective ligaments that keep the femur from displacing on the tibia (ACL, PCL, MCL, LCL). These four ligaments are most effective at their protection during full extension and full flexion. Full extension would be when you are standing; full flexion would be when there is no daylight between your hamstring and your calf. When the knee is at 90 degrees of flexion (the halfway point), these four ligaments are almost completely lax and cannot exert much if any of a protective force at the knee (Zatsiorsky V. Kinematics of human motion. 1998 - published by Human Kinetics - p.301).

Unfortunately, the position where the protective ligaments of the knee are not doing any protecting is the common recommended stopping point of a squat. Therefore, as it as it turns out, this is the exact worst place you could reverse the motion under load.

If flexibility allows (heels staying planted, torso not flexing forward past 45 degrees), then a full squat where you lower yourself all the way to the ground is far safer on the knees than the traditional half squat. Guess what joint angle most leg extension machines start at? If you said 90 degrees, give yourself a pat on your healthy knee. This makes a full squat even safer than a leg extension machine (Wilk K et al. A comparison of tibiofemoral joint forces and electromyographic activity during open and closed kinetic chain exercises. Am J Sports Med; 24(4):518-527).

So am I telling you never to do parallel squats? No! Am I saying that you’ll injure yourself on a parallel squat? No, again! What I’m trying to do is simply make an argument for the safety of full squats, thereby relegating squat myth #2 to the fiery pits of hades.

max_boost

11-15-2010, 01:02 AM

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1767210

:zzz:

J-hop

11-15-2010, 09:48 AM

max_boost

11-15-2010, 10:04 AM

The first link references a couple medical papers as it's source. Go re-read it again.

If t-nation is some irrelevant source, so be it.

I don't have time to go searching for scientific articles. If you want to squat parallel, go ahead. Like I said, if you have perfect form, throw a video up as I want to see.

The whole issue with not breaking parallel is, most people just don't know how to do it properly. :rofl:

liquidboi69

11-18-2010, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by J-hop
i said legit papers not some Dr. Joe from the internetz
How is Zatsiorsky V., Professor in Penn State's Kinesiology program not a reputable source. You choose to believe what you want to believe, while the rest of us don't puss out and get strong.

Max Boosts and my posts contained references. Since you asked for proof we provided proof with reputable references. If you choose not to believe them that's on you.

J-hop

11-18-2010, 09:41 PM

msommers

11-18-2010, 11:15 PM

I'm sure these folks would throw some input in...

http://www.ucalgary.ca/knes/facultycontact

liquidboi69

11-18-2010, 11:40 PM

I would say the onus is on you to prove otherwise J-hop. Especially if everyone's agreeing but you. If "people" told you these things, then why aren't you referencing these people, yet we have to?

And when we DO decide to reference, you admittedly are "too lazy to read" them. Why does your unpopular opinion...based on some unreferenced guy have more credibility than a published article? Especially when you're opinions are derived from a mentality like; "I don't feel like reading the whole thing." Don't you think this is a narrow minded approach to learning? How could anyone take you seriously if this is how you decide to argue your case.

If you thinks squat dominated workouts can't make you strong, then I guess Olympic lifters aren't very strong eh?

Of course...this is only from my opinion. I swear it's derived from a PHD MD personal trainer champion olympic and powerlifter that told me though.

J-hop

11-18-2010, 11:54 PM

Neil4Speed

11-19-2010, 08:18 AM

Not that there is anything wrong with posting in this thread - but it may be of interest to create a mini Powerlifting subforum, seems like there are allot of enthusiasts!

scboss

11-19-2010, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by liquidboi69
I would say the onus is on you to prove otherwise J-hop. Especially if everyone's agreeing but you. If "people" told you these things, then why aren't you referencing these people, yet we have to?

And when we DO decide to reference, you admittedly are "too lazy to read" them. Why does your unpopular opinion...based on some unreferenced guy have more credibility than a published article? Especially when you're opinions are derived from a mentality like; "I don't feel like reading the whole thing." Don't you think this is a narrow minded approach to learning? How could anyone take you seriously if this is how you decide to argue your case.

If you thinks squat dominated workouts can't make you strong, then I guess Olympic lifters aren't very strong eh?

Of course...this is only from my opinion. I swear it's derived from a PHD MD personal trainer champion olympic and powerlifter that told me though.

The thing is that 99% of people on here dont give 2 shits about being crazy strong let alone a olympic powerlifter. Ass to the ground squats are better but also alot more risky. For a regular guy that just wants to get fit and not crazy strong they dont need ass to the ground squats. Biggest thing ive seen at the gym is people most people work out for looks which is why they have chicken legs.

The chance of you messing up your knees increases greatly once you go under 90 degrees with bad form because if done improperly all the weight is put directly on your knee joint. No one is wrong here but ass to the ground will make you stronger which is why i do it.

lint

11-25-2010, 12:51 PM

http://www.70sbig.com/?p=2971

I’ve mentioned before that I’ve been exposed to a regular fitness facility for the first time in a while. People with good intentions wander around the room ready to implement either what they have read in mainstream magazines/websites, or what convoluted knowledge they’ve picked up over the years. It’s a shame that they have been misled by people who know better, but I guess it could be worse; they could be sitting at home. In any case, there are still some things that I see that make my eyes bleed. Alas! This is an unfortunate reality for many readers of this site. Hopefully my observations can prevent any readers from following suit.

In most facilities it’s rare to see someone squatting with a barbell. Hell, it’s rare to have more than one rack to do it in. It’s even more rare to see someone doing anything lower than a half squat…and this saddens me. Skinny guys weighing less than 160 pounds and wearing fingerless gloves load the bar to 185 or 225 (apparently it’s sacrilege to use the smaller plates) and bust out some hard fought half rep squats. These guys don’t have any business loading this kind of weight, and if they did an honest-to-god full squat, they would squat significantly less than my girlfriend. I’ve seen another guy who actually had some squatting experience put 405 on the bar (after I did) and squat it below the halfway point, albeit five inches high.

Shirtless, shaved, and half squatting with stop sign plates. Fuck.

If you can’t or don’t squat ALL of the way down, you don’t have any business squatting. I will personally kick the ass of any reader of this site who does a half squat. If there’s any doubt to the depth of your squat, then it was high. Yes, I’ve cut some reps off before (most people have), but making it a habit is unacceptable. Aside from looking like a complete poon, you’re wasting your time because you aren’t getting much benefit from half squats.

The “low bar” squat (as indicated in “Starting Strength”) necessitates proper depth. Growing up, proper depth was always considered to be at parallel (even though parallel isn’t clearly defined), but it should be thought of as the point where the hip joint is below the knee joint. Visually, that would be a point where the crease flexed hip is below the top of the knee (note: this gets harder to see when the lifter has more girth).

Lowering the hips below the knees does a few things. Specifically for the “low bar” squat, it ensures there is enough depth for the adductors and hamstrings to stretch so that they can subsequently contract with the aid of the “stretch shortening cycle“. Taking advantage of this “bounce” is vital for a strength trainee. If the depth is cut short, then the bounce isn’t possible because the related muscles aren’t stretched adequately prior to their contraction. Visually it will look like a slower rep than if the bounce occurred.

Squats at proper depth also train all of the musculature around the knees and hips through a full range of motion. There is no utility in training half of a muscle’s range of motion. Half squats at the high or low bar position handicap the lifter and severely limit their strength progression. They also make the lifter look like a fucking Nancy. If you’re gonna spend time lifting, you my as well do it right. If that means reducing the weight by as much as 50 to 100 pounds, then so be it. It is what it is.

And I don’t want to hear any shit about people doing half squats to make their lifts go up. 99% of people on this site don’t have any business dicking around with half movements anyway. Unless you’re Mike Tuchscherer, eating and squatting all the way down should be your only concern. Every time you don’t squat to depth, I pour a beer down the drain. And I HATE wasting beer.

Chris hits solid depth on this 585 double