The Gun Thread

[freshprince1]

I thought it might be useful to have a thread devoted to Firearms/Sport Shooting/Hunting.

Lets start it off with what you have and what types of shooting you like to do.

I'm getting my P.A.L. tomorrow and plan on picking up a few firearms.

We do a lot of skeet-shooting, so I'd like to get a nice long-barrell for that, haven't quite thought of which one. My Father-in-law has a Benelli semi-auto...beautiful...but way too expensive for my budget. I'd love to find an old classic Remington Wingmaster, hoping to find one used:

http://elisguns.com/images/stories/gunphotos/remington%20870%20wingmaster%20-%2012ga.jpg


First thing I'm going to buy is a Mossberg 500, probably with the J.I.C. kit (Just In Case). Not useful for skeet, but a nice bush gun to have up at the fishing cabin, or like it says, just in case.


Kick-Ass J.I.C. Kit (http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/51340.jpg)

I'd also like ot get a decent .22cal rifle. I heard the Ruger SR 1022 is a pretty good way to start, plus lots of cool components available.

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt219/jtischauser/Ruger/Ruger10-22.jpg

[SJW]

I have 2 pistols.

A kimber .45 ACP Custom II stainless
http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/products/pistols/custom/large_stainless_II.jpg




http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/pistols/custom/stainless_II/

and a Ruger 22 Mark III


http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIIStandard/index.html
.http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIIStandard/images/10104.jpg


I don't miss with my .45 I shoot only at the range.

I want to get about 6 more and also get into skeet shooting

[freshprince1]

^^ Nice. I love the .45 cal handguns. I shot a couple at the range down in Houston this summer. One was a 1911 Springfield WWI standard issue handgun, that thing sure had a kick. The other - while not exactly a .45 - was the .357 Magnum, beautiful. I was very surprised how little recoil and how accurate the Magnum was.

[Tomaz]

Welcome to the club! I recently received my PAL also. I have just applied for my RPAL.

I bought a Marlin 795 w/ Mag and a 3-9x 35mm scope. I like it, but it is not as good as a Ruger 10/22. I am not sure what you want to do with your .22, but the Ruger Varmint/Target is such a nice gun (though a tad expensive). If not, the standard model is only $250.

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storefront/firearms/rimfire-rifles/10-22t-target-model/prod101961.html

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storefront/firearms/rimfire-rifles/10-22-all-weather-model/prod101959.html

PS: Wholesale Sports now carries Federal Champion Hollow-points in a 525 Value Pack for $20. This is far superior ammo compared to Remmington thunderbolt. BTW, If you shop around for ammo, stay away from hyper-velocity bullets as the extra kick can damage any autoloaders.



For an inexpensive shotgun, look at the Browning BPS Stalker. It is by far the smoothest action shotty I have felt in the sub-$1000 range. Once you feel the action compared to Rem. 870, Stoger, Mossberg, you will agree. Plus bottom ejection is pretty cool too.

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storefront/firearms/pump-action-shotguns/bps-field-stalker/prod81389.html

If you want to buy an auto-loading shotgun, you will be spending upwards of $1500 - $2500 before finding anything decent (doesn't fuck up on you).

[Mitsu3000gt]

I have this, could not be happier with it. Only mod is a 13lb main spring to lighten its already light trigger:

CZ SP-01 SHADOW

http://www.shoot.ie/images/sp01shadow.jpg

Next purchase will probably be this for cheap plinking in the pistol bays:

S&W MP-22

http://www.frontierfirearms.ca/images/mp345.jpg

or this, if it gets good reviews. Supposed to be here any day now:

ISSC MK22 SCAR

http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o340/Mrwolverine/AAA.png

[Tomaz]

^^^ "Is that a rimfire??

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tomaz
^^^ "Is that a rimfire??

You bet, both of the rifles are .22's.

Apparently the delay on the SCAR Is waiting for it to be classified either restricted or non-restricted.

[Tomaz]

SICK! Gopher Killn' - Rainbow Six Style! lol

Where did you order it from? and how much?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tomaz
SICK! Gopher Killn' - Rainbow Six Style! lol

Where did you order it from? and how much?

If it gets Restricted, for absolutely no reason whatsoever, just like the MP-22 did, you won't be killing any gophers with it :(

The government enjoys restricting weapons that resemble the real thing, even though they are .22 and cannot possibly be converted into the real thing.

The MP-22 is $500 the SCAR will be about $650.

Also I have neither yet, one or the other will be my next purchase though.

[Cos]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


You bet, both of the rifles are .22's.

Apparently the delay on the SCAR Is waiting for it to be classified either restricted or non-restricted.

:drool:

[Mitsu3000gt]

.

[freshprince1]

That SCAR would be awesome. What prevents a restricted rifle from being used to kill gophers? Are they only allowed to be fired at the range?


edit: I suppose I'll figure this out tomorrow at the PAL course!

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by freshprince1
That SCAR would be awesome. What prevents a restricted rifle from being used to kill gophers? Are they only allowed to be fired at the range?


edit: I suppose I'll figure this out tomorrow at the PAL course!

Restricted firearms can only be used in an approved range, and you have to show the CFO proof of range membership.

Unrestricted firearms have much more lax storage rules, can be used on crown land, or private land, etc.

[2ndgenlude]

if your course is tomorrow, you wont see your actual card for over a month. just went through the whole process and mine just got put in the mail and they received it on sept 27th. just a heads up. and mine went through fast.

no guns owned yet, but im looking at a remington 700 in either 30-06 or .270win

besides that i will be getting a .22 for grouse/ plinking and then something fun for target shooting. maybe ar-15 or something. i got both pal and rpal at the same time.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I got my PAL/RPAL in less than a month, basically exactly the 28 day minimum period, a couple days longer maybe.

1) Send your application, photos, and proof of passing the course via registered mail.

2) When your mail has arrived, call them and confirm they have it, and also that you haven't made any mistakes on the form (you can verbally correct them I believe).

3) Call the CFO office and do your phone interview, then have your references call the CFO office right after. Don't wait for them to call you or your references.

4) Call and check the status. If everything is good, and they just haven't got to it yet, they will do so on the spot and get it out to you.

Do all that and you should have it in the absolute minimum amount of time, it worked for me and many others. The CFO office is very good about it, and has no problem with people making their life easier.

Also when you guys apply for your long term ATTs, get it for "All approved gunsmiths and ranges". The CFO office will help you with the wording if you aren't sure, they are familiar with the request. This makes it so you are free to travel to any gunsmith/range, not just one.

[kvg]

I have probably the oldest guns on here. 2 1803 Prosser flint lock pistols, and a old lever action Winchester. I've only ever seen one other set of Prowsers at auction in England a couple months ago.

[Tomaz]

28 days? myself and 2 friends took the test the same week (July 27th myself) I only received my tags September 20th (ish).

I would expect 45 days + before you get your cards.

3-4 weeks for any registration of firearms.

Mind you, a lot of your questions will be answered in your course. :thumbsup:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tomaz
28 days? myself and 2 friends took the test the same week (July 27th myself) I only received my tags September 20th (ish).

I would expect 45 days + before you get your cards.

3-4 weeks for any registration of firearms.

Mind you, a lot of your questions will be answered in your course. :thumbsup:

Yup, I got mine just a few days longer than the 28 day mandatory minimum waiting period. You just need to call them and be proactive - they are really good about it. Alberta is known for being really fast too.

[Phenix]

fairly expensive for a 22. but a sick lookin toy!

[kvg]

I wanna get my P.A.L. soon. My favorite guns to shoot are actually .22, because I enjoy target shooting.

[legendboy]

i would not post details of firearms i owned on this forum :rofl:

[SJW]

And never post the details about your avatar either please.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by legendboy
i would not post details of firearms i owned on this forum :rofl:

Lol why, what do you think is going to happen?

[vengie]

Originally posted by BigMass


Lol why, what do you think is going to happen?

My thoughts exactly...

Break into a house known to have firearms and there is a solid chance you will be staring down the barrel of a 12 gauge, or equivalent.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by legendboy
i would not post details of firearms i owned on this forum :rofl:

Why?

Lots of people don't even store their firearm(s) in their home, myself included.

[CMW403]

I went and got my pal the day after I turned 18, bought a CZ858 the day after my card arrived. :rofl:

OP, those mossberg 500's are awesome. A friend of mine has one with the J.I.C. kit and he loves it. We were out shooting friday and he had a folding stock on it which i was quite impressed with. Flip the stock down and it can double as a skeet gun flawlessly.




Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Why?

Lots of people don't even store their firearm(s) in their home, myself included.

Why the hell wouldn't you keep them at your house?

[Alterac]

Originally posted by SJW
A kimber .45 ACP Custom II stainless
http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/products/pistols/custom/large_stainless_II.jpg

http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/pistols/custom/stainless_II/


this is a very beautiful pistol.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by CMW403


Why the hell wouldn't you keep them at your house?

I can't think of a single reason I would need a pistol in my house for. The only legal place I can discharge it is at the range, and that is where I store it, for free.

If you are thinking more from the self defense perspective, handguns are absolutely terrible for home defense (compared to something like a shot gun) and secondly the storage rules surrounding restricted firearms would prevent me from accessing it quickly in an emergency unless I wanted to invest in some pretty serious storage options.

[drewb]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I can't think of a single reason I would need a pistol in my house for.

Two words; Zombie Apocalypse

[97'Scort]

Originally posted by drewb


Two words; Zombie Apocalypse
Pistols are useless against zombies. You need something that will remove the head, or at least a limb. Unless you're rocking a .50 cal or possibly a .45 hollowpoint, that head's still partially going to be there.

Personally, I prefer my Remington 1100 semi auto, 21" barrel for quick targeting and six round capacity for my zombie defense needs:

http://www.kg-dj.com/images/Gun1.JPG
http://www.kg-dj.com/images/Gun2.JPG
http://www.kg-dj.com/images/Gun3.JPG

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by legendboy
i would not post details of firearms i owned on this forum :rofl:

If you can:

a) Find my house (pretty hard)

b) Get into my house

c) Find my firearms

d) Get into the storage

e) Find a way to utilize them

f) Find the ammo

g) Get into the ammo

Then somebody really wanted to shoot gophers :nut:

I think someone will be greatly disappointed after reaching step b :rofl:



Scort,

How is that auto-loader treating you? Any jamming, misfires, reliability issues? It sure does look pretty!

Did you add the glow sights or did it come with?

[CMW403]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


I can't think of a single reason I would need a pistol in my house for. The only legal place I can discharge it is at the range, and that is where I store it, for free.

If you are thinking more from the self defense perspective, handguns are absolutely terrible for home defense (compared to something like a shot gun) and secondly the storage rules surrounding restricted firearms would prevent me from accessing it quickly in an emergency unless I wanted to invest in some pretty serious storage options.

Well I wouldn't say a .45 auto is terrible for home defense, especially after you just finished telling us how you don't miss??:rofl: It is a beautiful pistol btw.

In my experience the majority of gun owners I know don't fully adhere to the storage regulations either. I've personally never had a problem with locking my toys up tight because I live at home and my dad has home defense on lock.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by CMW403


Well I wouldn't say a .45 auto is terrible for home defense, especially after you just finished telling us how you don't miss??:rofl: It is a beautiful pistol btw.

In my experience the majority of gun owners I know don't fully adhere to the storage regulations either. I've personally never had a problem with locking my toys up tight because I live at home and my dad has home defense on lock.

Where in this thread did I say I don't miss? No matter how a good of a shot I was, put in a life or death situation I'm guessing my accuracy would be absolutely abysmal, especially with a pistol.

Anyways obviously I'd rather have a pistol than nothing to defend myself, assuming I could actually get to it in time. I do think, though, that if someone was actually scared for their life, they would have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn. It's impossible to even train for those situations because you can't simulate the feeling you get when you actually think you might die if you don't react. Also, something like the .45 you mention could EASILY go through a wall, where other family members or neighbors might be sleeping. That is another reason why a shotgun makes the best home defense weapon. It's easier to hit a target in a panic, it has tons of short range stopping power, and will not easily penetrate into surrounding rooms/homes.

[SJW]

I want one of these bad boys in my night stand.

http://www.avidbiometrics.com/GunVault-GVB1000-Biometric-Minivault-p1237.html

Keep my .45 in there.

[freshprince1]

Passed the PAL. 96% on the written, 96% on the Practical. Sending off papers tomorrow...eagerly awaiting the return of my official license.

There was some russian guy that totally failed the test...he was waving the gun every which way during the test, put the trigger lock on the lever-action when asked to store safely, and had his finger all over the trigger throughout the exam....so much lols.

Heading out to meet with a gunsmith later this week to see what he has for inventory right now. I am for sure going to buy the Mossber 500 12 Gauge (shown above) and a long barrell 12 Gauge. The wife wants a 20 Gauge and a nice .22 (i.e. Ruger, see above).

I'm surprised how many people on Beyond own guns.

Anyone else have suggestions on legal places to buy firearms other than the mainstream sporting goods stores?

Anyone purchase a firearm in the US and brought it back over the border? Was it a big hassle? They're noticeably cheaper down there...and I spend a lot of time in Houston.

[Mitsu3000gt]

^^ Buying firearms cross boarder is a HUGE hassle, just buy them here.

As for good places to buy, join the Canadian Gun Nutz forums. Lots of good guys there and a lot of the site sponsors have amazing deals on firearms. If you want to try before you buy, you will almost certainly find someone on there willing to help. Lots of good deals in the used section too. Places like The Shooting Edge and Wholesale Sports have been absolute rip offs for everything I've been looking at compared to the smaller dealers/sponsors around Alberta. Just as one example, a shot gun I was looking at is $1,500 at Wholesale Sports and $999 through one of the site sponsors. Definitely shop around a lot before you buy, there are some obscene price differences.

[CMW403]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Where in this thread did I say I don't miss? No matter how a good of a shot I was, put in a life or death situation I'm guessing my accuracy would be absolutely abysmal, especially with a pistol.

Anyways obviously I'd rather have a pistol than nothing to defend myself, assuming I could actually get to it in time. I do think, though, that if someone was actually scared for their life, they would have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn. It's impossible to even train for those situations because you can't simulate the feeling you get when you actually think you might die if you don't react. Also, something like the .45 you mention could EASILY go through a wall, where other family members or neighbors might be sleeping. That is another reason why a shotgun makes the best home defense weapon. It's easier to hit a target in a panic, it has tons of short range stopping power, and will not easily penetrate into surrounding rooms/homes.

Forgive me, I confused you with SJW. His .45 is so beautiful I thought it a crime to store it at the range.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by CMW403


Forgive me, I confused you with SJW. His .45 is so beautiful I thought it a crime to store it at the range.

Lol, no problem. It is a very nice looking gun indeed.

I think if I ever get a second pistol it will be a 1911 style but 9mm (I don't reload yet). I was thinking STI Trojan or STI Spartan. Everything I read suggests they are absolute bargains for the respective price categories. I have gigantic hands so it's hard to find guns that I like to hold. I tried a Colt 1911 .45 and it was so skinny, I didn't like it at all.

[legendboy]

Originally posted by Phenix
fairly expensive for a 22. but a sick lookin toy!

I got about 1100 into my .22! lol

[Despair*]

Just wondering where did some of you guys take the The Canadian Firearms Safety Course? Any of you guys have any recommendations? I'm also interested in obtaining my PAL and RPAL.

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by Despair*
Just wondering where did some of you guys take the The Canadian Firearms Safety Course? Any of you guys have any recommendations? I'm also interested in obtaining my PAL and RPAL.


I did mine through these guys: www.palcoursecalgary.com
$100 for the course.

You can also do it for free (but hey expect a donation) through www.aheia.com.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Despair*
Just wondering where did some of you guys take the The Canadian Firearms Safety Course? Any of you guys have any recommendations? I'm also interested in obtaining my PAL and RPAL.

I took mine at The Shooting Edge. For $200 you get PAL and RPAL in one day. It's so unbelievably easy, it's just a matter of putting in the 6hr or whatever for the class. If you don't pass, you should never be allowed even close to a firearm haha.

The nice thing about taking it at TSE is that they will knock the full $200 for the course off a membership fee, so if you end up getting a membership there anyways (You need to have one somewhere for restricted), you essentially get it for free. They had a huge assortment of practice guns for the hands-on part of the test, and the classroom area is nice. The instructors were great too. I didn't have a single complaint, and I am very happy with my membership privileges there.

[SJW]

Originally posted by CMW403


Forgive me, I confused you with SJW. His .45 is so beautiful I thought it a crime to store it at the range.

I don't store it at a range. It's triple locked in my house. Trigger lock, lock on case and locked in safe.

For home defense i have a carbon fiber hockey stick. It's the perfect weapon for night time break ins.

If anyone is a member at the okotoks range, bring your guns down some night and you are more than welcome to shoot my .45 if you have something I can shoot.

[97'Scort]

Originally posted by Tomaz
Scort,

How is that auto-loader treating you? Any jamming, misfires, reliability issues? It sure does look pretty!

Did you add the glow sights or did it come with?

I did have some jamming issues when I first bought it. Got it used from CGN and the guy hadn't cleaned it very well. It wouldn't cycle the second shell sometimes when I shoot skeet. Took it to a gunsmith and there was a little metal tab that was catching, so once I fixed that it's been flawless.

Came with the glowsight. It's pretty accurate, and I shoot skeet and trap with it, although on the trap range I'm on a full choke all the time with the super short barrel, but it gets out there just fine. I'm usually around 18-19 consistently.

[turbolaser]

good to see gun fans and car fans , really digging that scar

[legendboy]

here is a plinking video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gpKtzvT7Nc

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by SJW

If anyone is a member at the okotoks range, bring your guns down some night and you are more than welcome to shoot my .45 if you have something I can shoot.

Where is the Okotoks Range? My brother and I both got our PALs (he also got his RPAL), and woould love a place to shoot locally, as we both also live in Cimarron.

[legendboy]

I think he is referring to the Calgary Trap and Skeet Club?

[Tomaz]

Scort,

Congrats on your shotty! How much did you pay, if you dont mind me asking?


I love living miles from everything. I just made my own trap range in my back yard. If anyone is down next spring, come on out! lol


I have been looking for an answer to my question finding no luck:

Walther P99 9mm, is it legal in Canada? I know the ppk is, so I am going for the newest bond gun :D

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tomaz

Walther P99 9mm, is it legal in Canada? I know the ppk is, so I am going for the newest bond gun :D

Yup, the P99 is legal in Canada.

[97'Scort]

Got her for $400 shipped, and it came with three chokes. I had to get a new case, sock, tube wrench, and a mod choke.

[95EagleAWD]

We finally have nice guns at work.... made the transition from the Smith & Wesson .38 revolvers to our Glock 22 .40 caliber autos. They're great.

Polished this off first time out with the gun.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/95EagleAWD/IMG_6059.jpg

My hands need to shift a bit, since everything's going right, but I'm happy with the groupings (50 rounds fired here). I don't like the stock grip much either, so I'm gonna try a Hogue and see how that works to straighten out my shooting.

Nice to finally carry a good gun, though.

[SJW]

Originally posted by freshprince1


Where is the Okotoks Range? My brother and I both got our PALs (he also got his RPAL), and woould love a place to shoot locally, as we both also live in Cimarron.

http://www.okotoksgunclub.com/ORPC/Welcome.html

Its here. Membership is full right now though. You can drop in for 20 bucks. Bring targets.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
We finally have nice guns at work.... made the transition from the Smith & Wesson .38 revolvers to our Glock 22 .40 caliber autos. They're great.

Nice to finally carry a good gun, though.

Where do you work? Armored car service? I'm guessing that because you say you're coming off of revolvers.

The Glocks take some getting used to and aren't for everyone. Some obviously love them, and some say it's like holding a 2X4 and hate the on-trigger safety. A lot of people shoot high with them too but you seem to have that under control. Glad you like them though, they will eat just about any ammo and if you haven't seen the youtube torture tests yet it may give you even more peace of mind :).

[statick]

Originally posted by Tomaz


Walther P99 9mm, is it legal in Canada? I know the ppk is, so I am going for the newest bond gun :D

The Walther PPK is a Prohibited weapon.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by statick


The Walther PPK is a Prohibited weapon.

You can change the barrel and make it restricted if it's .22 or .380. Lots of people have done it.

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


You can change the barrel and make it restricted if it's .22 or .380. Lots of people have done it.

QFT

You can buy them Modified.

The P99 is the same with a 106, Bought one this year.

[SJW]

Im buyin a glock 17 next at tax return time.

[freshprince1]

So, I've decided against the Ruger .22 Semi-Auto. INstead I'm going to go for the Henry .22 Lever Action long Rifle. I've been looking into it and am very pleased with the reviews. Plus, there's something about it that makes me feel like a cowboy...must be the lever action, or the heritage of the Henry name. Also, it is touted as being ridiculously accurate even without a scope.

http://www.millerrodandgun.com/images/HenryLeverAction22_134027.jpg

[Tomaz]

That is pretty sweet. Go out and pretend to be Clint Eastwood in an ol' western flick!

[Jlude]

Originally posted by freshprince1
So, I've decided against the Ruger .22 Semi-Auto. INstead I'm going to go for the Henry .22 Lever Action long Rifle. I've been looking into it and am very pleased with the reviews. Plus, there's something about it that makes me feel like a cowboy...must be the lever action, or the heritage of the Henry name. Also, it is touted as being ridiculously accurate even without a scope.

http://www.millerrodandgun.com/images/HenryLeverAction22_134027.jpg

That's so cool!

I would never own a gun, because I know if someone fucked around with me or my family, I'd use too quickly.

But love seeing all the pictures of what you guys have!

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Jlude


That's so cool!

I would never own a gun, because I know if someone fucked around with me or my family, I'd use too quickly.

But love seeing all the pictures of what you guys have!

Lots of guys store their firearms at the range they use them at, you don't have to keep them in your home to enjoy shooting them :).

[SJW]

...

[freshprince1]

^^ Nice work. My license has been issued and is in the mail. can't wait for it to arrive...I have spousal approval to go gun shopping before christmas but I still have to be "surprised" when I see it under the tree. ;)

[SJW]

I just buy em and if she happens to find out I bought a gun I tell her I spent 200 bucks on a gun. Boy she gets mad about the 200 bucks.

She only knows about the kimber.

[Tomaz]

I just submitted my RPAL application last week. Hopefully will have it by Feb. How long did you guys wait for your restricted?

SJW, that is a nice looking Kimbler! One of my favorites. My favorite being the Kimbler Custom Stainless II, .40Cal. beautiful firing gun. :)

[SJW]

This one is a Custom II Stainless but .45 ACP

I think i waited like 2 or 3 months. Can't remember. All i know is when you call the CFO to obtain your permits they are the nicest people.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tomaz
I just submitted my RPAL application last week. Hopefully will have it by Feb. How long did you guys wait for your restricted?


If you are on top of things, have your references call the CFO office, and call in to make sure there are no issues with your application, you should have it within a few days of the 28 day minimum waiting period. Alberta is one of the better provinces for wait time, but if you want it ASAP you need to make a few calls - they are happy to rush it along if you call in and make their jobs easier.

I got mine in 30 something days after they received it, basically the 28 day minimum + a couple days for them to mail it to me. Stay on top of it and you won't wait anywhere near 2-3 months like some others have.

[Tomaz]

You have good taste ;) lol

Speaking of acquiring permits, I assume when you buy one you would have to contact the CFO and request a permit to take it home. How long does it take to get a permit to transport?

[Kloubek]

So, I have a question for you guys in the know...

I'm planning on getting a shotgun soon. My understanding is that as long as it has a trigger lock, I'm allowed to store it pretty much anywhere.... like say, under the bed. (Rifles can be stored without a trigger lock if the bolt is removed. Oddly, the law does not dictate how far away the bolt needs to be stored)

Anyway, my question is regarding ammunition. According to this link, ammunition has to be stored separately in this scenario:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/storage-entreposage-eng.htm

What would be considered "separately"? Would a drawer beside my bed be considered separate? What about the opposite night stand? Does it need to be in another room? What about in a lock box beside the bed? Another floor of the house? Another house altogether? :)

Seems to me there is some room for interpretation. It would be a shame for someone (like myself) to get charged because some charge-happy cop interpreted the wording differently. If I have a shotgun available you better believe if I ever needed to use it I would want it in working order as quickly as possible, while still following the law.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Kloubek
So, I have a question for you guys in the know...

I'm planning on getting a shotgun soon. My understanding is that as long as it has a trigger lock, I'm allowed to store it pretty much anywhere.... like say, under the bed. (Rifles can be stored without a trigger lock if the bolt is removed. Oddly, the law does not dictate how far away the bolt needs to be stored)

Anyway, my question is regarding ammunition. According to this link, ammunition has to be stored separately in this scenario:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/storage-entreposage-eng.htm

What would be considered "separately"? Would a drawer beside my bed be considered separate? What about the opposite night stand? Does it need to be in another room? What about in a lock box beside the bed? Another floor of the house? Another house altogether? :)

Seems to me there is some room for interpretation. It would be a shame for someone (like myself) to get charged because some charge-happy cop interpreted the wording differently. If I have a shotgun available you better believe if I ever needed to use it I would want it in working order as quickly as possible, while still following the law.


Separately just means not in the same unlocked case as the firearm. If the guns are in a vault or locked up, you can store ammo in there too, the guns just can't be loaded (but the loaded magazine can be sitting beside the gun ready to go, for example). So in your example if the gun isn't also in your nightstand drawer, you can store the ammo there if you want.

You don't need to lock up ammunition if it's not stored with the gun.

If you are worried about any very specific scenarios, you can call the CFO office and they are more than happy to answer questions that may be in a grey area.

There are quite a few grey areas and loopholes to storage laws in Canada, as the laws are quite vague.

[SJW]

Originally posted by Tomaz
You have good taste ;) lol

Speaking of acquiring permits, I assume when you buy one you would have to contact the CFO and request a permit to take it home. How long does it take to get a permit to transport?

Here's how it works:

I buy a gun at wholesale sports, they take down my RPAL # and my gun club membership #.

They call the RCMP and transfer the firearm reg from them to you. They give you a reference #.

You go home, call the CFO, give them your reference # and ask for a SHORT TERM ATT and a LONG TERM ATT.

The short term gets the gun from the store to your home. The long term is a blanket permit which allows you to move your gun between gun ranges and/or gunsmiths. IN THE MOST REASONABLE ROUTE.

So once you get your permits, they either fax them or email them. Bring that paperwork down to wherever your gun is, show the permit to the clerk along with your reciept. You have a lock box and a trigger lock. Bring the gun home.

Shoot away.

[SJW]

Originally posted by Kloubek
So, I have a question for you guys in the know...

I'm planning on getting a shotgun soon. My understanding is that as long as it has a trigger lock, I'm allowed to store it pretty much anywhere.... like say, under the bed. (Rifles can be stored without a trigger lock if the bolt is removed. Oddly, the law does not dictate how far away the bolt needs to be stored)

Anyway, my question is regarding ammunition. According to this link, ammunition has to be stored separately in this scenario:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/storage-entreposage-eng.htm

What would be considered "separately"? Would a drawer beside my bed be considered separate? What about the opposite night stand? Does it need to be in another room? What about in a lock box beside the bed? Another floor of the house? Another house altogether? :)

Seems to me there is some room for interpretation. It would be a shame for someone (like myself) to get charged because some charge-happy cop interpreted the wording differently. If I have a shotgun available you better believe if I ever needed to use it I would want it in working order as quickly as possible, while still following the law.

No offense but why do you need a pump stick in your room?

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by SJW


No offense but why do you need a pump stick in your room?

Not really sure what you're getting at here. Assuming by "pump stick" you mean shotgun (and you're not trying to be a smartass), then can you think of a better place to put it?

[SJW]

I'm not trying to be a smartass.

Gun safe would be my choice. Just thinking with all the pussy ass canadian laws regarding break ins you'd be better off with a bat or hockey stick.

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by Kloubek


Not really sure what you're getting at here. Assuming by "pump stick" you mean shotgun (and you're not trying to be a smartass), then can you think of a better place to put it?

Usually a safe / locked gun room / closet w/ trigger lock.

Having a firearm is not the best for home defense.

The whole idea of storing firearms safely is not for "ease of access", but actually the complete opposite. The main purpose of the laws (particularly evident in restricted firearms) is to reduce/eliminate theft.

EDIT:

Thought I would give you an example of an effecient and safe storage of firearms.

A button combination safe is the quickest way to access firearms and the best way to keep them from being stolen.

Enter code = access

The method that you were describing, though technically legal, is not the best way to keep your firearms from being stolen, which is more likely than being invaded.

[SJW]

I'm also not trying to be holier than thou. Just curious on the situation.

[interlude]

The Smith and Wesson MP 22 is restricted. Thinking about picking one up next year.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Tomaz


Having a firearm is not the best for home defense.



I might have missed the justification for this, why would you think this?

What would be a better defense against a deadly human threat than #4 birdshot ?

[SJW]

Originally posted by revelations


I might have missed the justification for this, why would you think this?

What would be a better defense against a deadly human threat than #4 birdshot ?

Flechettes?
http://weapons.travellercentral.com/ammo/shotgun_flechette.gif

[Kloubek]

It was a valid question SJW. I just had never heard a shotgun referred to as a "pump stick" before, and was thinking you might have been suggesting something... um.. different.

Anyway, I think a shotgun is the perfect home defense weapon. 1) It's going to at least match whatever an intruder might have on him. More likely, it would give me the upper hand.
2) Should it ever need to be used, it almost guarantees a kill as opposed to an injury - which reduces the potential for a law suit.
3) Just the click-click of the pump would be enough to get most people bolting out the door.
4) As far as guns go, you don't get much cheaper than a shotgun
5) It's hard to miss with a shotgun.
6) Great for defending against bears, etc. as well while camping. (Not that I've ever been concerned, but the wife is.)

While I am ok with the concept of securing it with more than just a trigger lock, I'm not sure I'm keen in buying an actual rifle safe to store it in. What are my alternatives? (Besides buying a handgun which would fit in a small box safe). Not really interested in dealing with a restricted weapon....

Besides all this, I've always really liked guns and wouldn't mind having one for the sake of having one. I'm well over 200 pounds and my bat and I can generally handle myself in most situations. Still... having insurance (so to speak) to ensure my safety and my family's safety doesn't seem like a horrible idea.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Kloubek
While I am ok with the concept of securing it with more than just a trigger lock, I'm not sure I'm keen in buying an actual rifle safe to store it in. What are my alternatives? (Besides buying a handgun which would fit in a small box safe). Not really interested in dealing with a restricted weapon....


It's kind of a grey area. Technically you can store an unlocked unrestricted firearm behind a locked closet door that would take 1 second to break into. It just absolutely has to be somewhere with a lock on it, regardless of how good the lock is. If you don't want to do that, you need a trigger lock. What I am unsure of is if you locked the gun in your closet, if you could also store ammo in there along with the firearm. That is another grey area, as technically it is locked up with the firearm, which is allowed. Might be a good question for the CFO.

You don't need to buy a gun safe, you can just buy a cheap rifle case, lock the case, don't use a trigger lock, and you can store the ammo in the case with the shot gun. IMO that would be the easiest and cheapest solution while giving you access to both gun and ammo at the same time. All the law says is "ammunition can be stored in the same locked container as the firearm".

[legendboy]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


It's kind of a grey area. Technically you can store an unlocked unrestricted firearm behind a locked closet door that would take 1 second to break into. It just absolutely has to be somewhere with a lock on it, regardless of how good the lock is. If you don't want to do that, you need a trigger lock. What I am unsure of is if you locked the gun in your closet, if you could also store ammo in there along with the firearm. That is another grey area, as technically it is locked up with the firearm, which is allowed. Might be a good question for the CFO.

You don't need to buy a gun safe, you can just buy a cheap rifle case, lock the case, don't use a trigger lock, and you can store the ammo in the case with the shot gun. IMO that would be the easiest and cheapest solution while giving you access to both gun and ammo at the same time. All the law says is "ammunition can be stored in the same locked container as the firearm".

Ammo should not be stored with a firearm, even if they are both locked in a gun safe

I keep all my ammo in my garage in a locked box, except for a small box of 12g slugs that are in my sock drawer ;)

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by Kloubek
So, I have a question for you guys in the know...

I'm planning on getting a shotgun soon.

...If I have a shotgun available you better believe if I ever needed to use it I would want it in working order as quickly as possible, while still following the law.

Mossberg 500 J.I.C. (Just In Case)
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/30/l_937122e7ddbf46c49a6cb3bcbd25c318.jpg

Link to Mossberg (http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=28)

You can buy this kit at Wholesale Sports for $350 I think. Shotgun alone is $240. Non-Restricted.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by legendboy


Ammo should not be stored with a firearm, even if they are both locked in a gun safe

I keep all my ammo in my garage in a locked box, except for a small box of 12g slugs that are in my sock drawer ;)

Is that just your opinion or do you not think it's legal? You are allowed to store ammo with a non-restricted firearm if they are in a locked case or safe. It just can't be loaded.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by freshprince1


Link to Mossberg (http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=28)

You can buy this kit at Wholesale Sports for $350 I think. Shotgun alone is $240. Non-Restricted.

This is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. A nice, small pump.

[freshprince1]

Originally posted by legendboy


Ammo should not be stored with a firearm, even if they are both locked in a gun safe

I keep all my ammo in my garage in a locked box, except for a small box of 12g slugs that are in my sock drawer ;)

I'm all about home safety and will be buying a shotgun for the house this christmas...but just thought I'd throw out a word of caution with keeping shotgun slugs on hand for use in case of emergency.

One thing you have to remember when considering a gun for the house is that if you ever use it, you have to use the mentality that you are shooting the person and ANYTHING behind it. That being said, I would hesitate using a slug in my house because that bitch will go through several walls at least if you miss your primary target.

That's why shotguns are good for the home. Use a small shot which will incapacitate an intruder if needs be, but will not penetrate multiple walls throughout the house if deployed.

Just something to think about.

[legendboy]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Is that just your opinion or do you not think it's legal? You are allowed to store ammo with a non-restricted firearm if they are in a locked case or safe. It just can't be loaded.

I see it as being a responsible gun owner

Every single person I know who owns firearms stores their ammo in a different location from the guns themselves. And always locked up.


I am supprised the person who gave you your safety course did not emphasize this

[Kloubek]

Not sure why keeping ammo elsewhere would be considered "responsible".

1) Someone breaks into your house, and manages to steal your gun. They can buy ammo anywhere, so that isn't a deterrant from the gun being used for illegal purposes
2) If you live by yourself or with a significant other, for example, there is nothing irresponsible in keeping ammo with the weapon.

If you have KIDS, keeping ammo lying around to any degree is probably not that responsible. Keeping it beside a gun is even less so.

However, in ANY case, if a gun is locked up - I will don't see what's the harm of keeping ammo with it.

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by revelations


I might have missed the justification for this, why would you think this?

What would be a better defense against a deadly human threat than #4 birdshot ?

My justification is dependent on the situation. Don't think I wouldn't end a life to save my own or my family's. Whipping out a gun would just not be my first course of action.

My biggest problem with having a gun for defense is if an intruder enters my home, I honestly don't believe I could retrieve my gun, unlock it, access my ammo, load my weapon, THEN confront the intruder before he/she can get to me. In my small place, an intruder has a better chance of taking me out before I can even find my glasses to see what the hell is going on.

If I do have the chance to get to my guns on time, I will not end a life unless mine is in danger. This means that the intruder has the chance to see another day. This is more of a moral choice than anything, but I stand by it. The repercussions of utilizing a firearm in Canada are far to harsh to even pull a shotty on someone.

Another huge concern is having my gun more accessible to me would mean that it becomes more accessible for others also. If I am robbed when not at home, you better believe the shotgun beside my bed will be one of the first things to be taken. I am not one to give criminals the ability to carry firearms thus everything is hidden, locked, and not easily accessible.


Kloubek,

An alternative that I saw was a closet door (solid-core) with a combination lock installed on it. 4 numbers, then you have access to your guns and ammo without fumbling with keys or trigger locks.

If you chose to store the gun with just the trigger lock, I would suggest using a combo trigger lock. Really quick to use while still obeying the law. :)

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tomaz

If you chose to store the gun with just the trigger lock, I would suggest using a combo trigger lock. Really quick to use while still obeying the law. :)

This is another good point that I forgot to mention. To expand on the above point, you can use a combo trigger lock and just leave one of the 3 dials one number away from the correct combo so you can basically open it instantly. For example, make the combo 0-0-0 and store it set at 0-0-1 so you just need to roll the last number back once to open it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by legendboy


I see it as being a responsible gun owner

Every single person I know who owns firearms stores their ammo in a different location from the guns themselves. And always locked up.


I am supprised the person who gave you your safety course did not emphasize this

I don't get what is irresponsible about that, if its locked up anyways, what is the problem with storing ammo with their gun? If it was irresponsible, the incredibly strict Canadian gun laws wouldn't allow it.

From a self defense perspective, if your ammo isn't stored with the gun it will more than likely take you a long time to get it when seconds matter. From a theft perspective, if the ammo is stored away from the gun, but just in a drawer in the same room or whatever, it's only going to take a criminal a few extra seconds to find the ammo so there is no significant difference.

If you store your ammo in the attic and your gun in the basement, yes that would be safest but it basically prevents you from using the gun for self defense.

In my safety courses the Canadian laws were emphasized and thats it. They are so incredibly strict already that there is a huge emphasis on safety. There is nothing unsafe about storing ammo with gun in a locked container.

For the record I leave my firearm stored at the gun range, and keep my ammo in my closet at home, so it's not even an issue for me. I only own restricted though.

[legendboy]

Your advice of leaving the gun and ammo in a lockable gun case is bad advice imo

Just saying

[Kloubek]

Well, if I were to lock my closet, I don't think it would take much for someone to punch through it if they broke into my house. Since it would be accessible in the event of a break-in anyway, I think I would be more likely to opt for a trigger lock. That way, when my alarm goes off (it calls me) and I race home to confront the intruder, the gun doesn't have a chance of being used against me. This is, of course, if the solid core closet was not an option. And honestly, it seems to me that going to that extent adds an expense and extra work I'm not sure I'm interested in going through.

Tomaz: I 100% know what you mean about shooting an intruder. And though I wish to have a shotgun for potential home defense, actually using it would be an absolute last resort. Hell, you've met me - I think I'm a pretty nice guy.... I don't ever want to know I actually ended someone's life. But you better believe if someone advances on me with a weapon, I would have no qualms about pulling the trigger. Just being in my house is bad enough, and you're not likely to be leaving without a beat down. But threaten my life, and it's all over for you. And in that regard, I have no problems at all and can easily live with myself if I knew it was either me or him.

But honestly - what kind of moron isn't going to run from the house when they hear a pump-action shotgun coming down the stairs? You'd have to be really drugged up, or have balls of steel not to turn into Usain Bolt.

[4bier]

[
But honestly - what kind of moron isn't going to run from the house when they hear a pump-action shotgun coming down the stairs? You'd have to be really drugged up, or have balls of steel not to turn into Usain Bolt. [/B][/QUOTE]


the ones that call your bluff..... and most are drugged up, drunk
not usally respectfull type ....and also how do you know theres is not more than 1 if you shoot the first 1 if there are any others i think they would run

[legendboy]

Originally posted by Kloubek
Well, if I were to lock my closet, I don't think it would take much for someone to punch through it if they broke into my house. Since it would be accessible in the event of a break-in anyway, I think I would be more likely to opt for a trigger lock. That way, when my alarm goes off (it calls me) and I race home to confront the intruder, the gun doesn't have a chance of being used against me. This is, of course, if the solid core closet was not an option. And honestly, it seems to me that going to that extent adds an expense and extra work I'm not sure I'm interested in going through.

Tomaz: I 100% know what you mean about shooting an intruder. And though I wish to have a shotgun for potential home defense, actually using it would be an absolute last resort. Hell, you've met me - I think I'm a pretty nice guy.... I don't ever want to know I actually ended someone's life. But you better believe if someone advances on me with a weapon, I would have no qualms about pulling the trigger. Just being in my house is bad enough, and you're not likely to be leaving without a beat down. But threaten my life, and it's all over for you. And in that regard, I have no problems at all and can easily live with myself if I knew it was either me or him.

But honestly - what kind of moron isn't going to run from the house when they hear a pump-action shotgun coming down the stairs? You'd have to be really drugged up, or have balls of steel not to turn into Usain Bolt.

I have a machete under my bed, that would be my go to weapon if my house alarm goes off in the middle of the night.

I do agree with the intimidation factor of hearing a pump or semi auto rack the bolt shut in complete silence.

Since having kids I keep all my guns in my safe. (use to keep a sg in my closet with a combo lock) I even keep my pellet gun locked up.

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by Kloubek
...

I know you buddy, and it sounds like you live by the same code as myself. :thumbsup:

Changing out a linen closet door is not hard, and an inexpensive way to make an easy access "gun safe". That is if you have a closet to spare. :)

I do suggest those combo locks. It makes life so much easier! I have forgotten my key a few times heading out to the range.

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storefront/firearm-ammo-storage/gun-locks/no-94-combination-padlock/prod79563.html

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by legendboy


I see it as being a responsible gun owner

Every single person I know who owns firearms stores their ammo in a different location from the guns themselves. And always locked up.


I am supprised the person who gave you your safety course did not emphasize this


Me, as well as several of my friends store ours with our ammo. As long as you have a decent safe, I don't really see a problem with it. Although, if I had kids I would consider a lock box inside my safe for my ammo.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Tomaz


My justification is dependent on the situation. Don't think I wouldn't end a life to save my own or my family's. Whipping out a gun would just not be my first course of action.

My biggest problem with having a gun for defense is if an intruder enters my home, I honestly don't believe I could retrieve my gun, unlock it, access my ammo, load my weapon, THEN confront the intruder before he/she can get to me. In my small place, an intruder has a better chance of taking me out before I can even find my glasses to see what the hell is going on.

If I do have the chance to get to my guns on time, I will not end a life unless mine is in danger. This means that the intruder has the chance to see another day. This is more of a moral choice than anything, but I stand by it. The repercussions of utilizing a firearm in Canada are far to harsh to even pull a shotty on someone.


Ya if you shoot someone in the back, its not going to be easy to articulate your case.

But as far as having a shotgun out because you were faced with an immanent threat - there is nothing against this AFAIK.

Most street-level cops go through a tough time when they must shoot someone - im sure most homeowners feel the same way.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Tomaz

I do suggest those combo locks. It makes life so much easier! I have forgotten my key a few times heading out to the range.

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storefront/firearm-ammo-storage/gun-locks/no-94-combination-padlock/prod79563.html

For $14, seems like a very logical way to increase gun safety.