BMW super car

[GOnSHO]

Hey guys,

having an argument about this with one of my colleagues..

He said the IS-F would DESTROY any car that BMW has in there lineup.. i disagree based on the M3, M5 and even the M6...

they he brings up the fact that Lexus has a super car in the LFA so its no contest..


so...

does BMW have a super car in the works?? if not, do you see one in the future for this company??

[86max]

Uh oh, fanboy bait thread.

[JRSC00LUDE]

I was going to comment but then realized there was no more room on the bench.

[1-Bar]

does a maclaren count? It has a BMW motor....

[Redlyne_mr2]

I used to be and still am a toyota fan boy and I can safely say the ISF has a hard time keeping up to a 335is let alone an m3. The ISF is a great car but it needs some tweaking and hopefully it will get the tweaking it needs in it's second series.

As for super cars there is supposedly an M8 in the works
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/bmw-prepares-m8-supercar-ar92488.html

But BMW has made super cars in the past including the Z8 and the M1.

The reason manufacturers make super cars is so that they have can showcase technology which eventually trickles down into their mainstream cars. With that being said BMW spends a lot of time and money on their racing division and it's the technology from that racing division which ends up in there street cars. Toyota doesn't have much of a racing division theses days which is why they need to develop a super car as a test bed.

[kvg]

battle of the super cars did the test. The IS-F is fast, but the M3 won by alot.

[lilmira]

There is no way you can stop a Toyota, it's a scientific fact.

Beat that BMW.

[GOnSHO]

awesome

thanks guys,

im not a fan boy either way, but my personal liking sways towards BMW...

[Toilet_D]

Originally posted by lilmira
There is no way you can stop a Toyota, it's a scientific fact.

Beat that BMW.


A-HAW-HAW!!11
CANT STOP A TOYOTA!!!!
i see what you did there you funey gewse!

[Zewind]

Didnt Battle of the Supercars do a ISF vs an M3?


All i remember is M3 beat the ISF in 2 of 3 areas.

[slinkie]

LFA boosting their sales? 90% of toyota buyers have never heard of LFA and they're only making like 500 aren't they

[Xtrema]

BMW had Z8 and M1 way before Toyota's LF-A. Now that R8 did so well for Audi's image, BMW will release a new super car soon.

[xxviet]

m3 won because you have all that extra cash left over to get your self to the gym, do landry and tan :facepalm:

[94boosted]

Originally posted by slinkie
90% of toyota buyers have never heard of LFA and they're only making like 500 aren't they

:werd: QFT

[SilverStreak]

First of all let's get some facts straight. Lexus has outsold BMW and Benz in the US market for the last 10 years to be the number one luxury selling brand, so they don't need the LFA to pump sales. They built it just because they can.

Secondly, Battle of the Supercars is for entertainment and the testing done is dubious at best. Tanner Foust is a clown, he butchered the LFA test where he couldn't launch worth crap. In out takes the LFA clearly smokes the R8 V10 and after a couple 0-100-0 runs the LFA stopped quicker by a few car lengths, but did they show that? No, that wouldn't be entertaining now would it, so they keep it close.

As for the IS F vs M3, in all other tests and real world (0-60 and 1/4 mile @ 4.2sec and 12.6sec Road & Track Test) vs M3 of (4.6 sec. and couldn't crack the 12s in the quarter mile, Road & Track) both cars are even up to 150mph then actually the F will take it since it isn't speed limited. They both are close enough to be a drivers race. The M3 has the edge on the track but with the 2010 and 2011 IS F models this is vitally gone as well with the addition on the LSD and suspension tweaks the F receives. The F is better around town and the M has the edge on the track.

As for the Battle of the Supercars, Tanner sandbagged the F, he owns an M3, plus didn't use the sport mode or paddle shift when doing the acceleration test. Also, funny how the F won on the track challenge, odd don't you think? There is no way the F loses a contest of acceleration by that big gap like that so with that said, if any 335 or M3 that would like to say that they will school the ISF then I will welcome that challenge....


Watch this Youtube real world example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIt-Ko_bPlA
two runs, pretty even up to 280 km/h

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by SilverStreak
First of all let's get some facts straight. Lexus has outsold BMW and Benz in the US market for the last 10 years to be the number one luxury selling brand, so they don't need the LFA to pump sales. They built it just because they can.

Secondly, Battle of the Supercars is for entertainment and the testing done is dubious at best. Tanner Foust is a clown, he butchered the LFA test where he couldn't launch worth crap. In out takes the LFA clearly smokes the R8 V10 and after a couple 0-100-0 runs the LFA stopped quicker by a few car lengths, but did they show that? No, that wouldn't be entertaining now would it, so they keep it close.

As for the IS F vs M3, in all other tests and real world documentation, both cars are even up to 150mph then actually the F will take it since it isn't speed limited. They both are close enough to be a drivers race. The M3 has the edge on the track but with the 2010 and 2011 IS F models this is vitally gone as well with the addition on the LSD and suspension tweaks the F receives. The F is better around town and the M has the edge on the track.

As for the Battle of the Supercars, Tanner sandbagged the F, he owns an M3, plus didn't use the sport mode or paddle shift when doing the acceleration test. Also, funny how the F won on the track challenge, odd don't you think? There is no way the F loses a contest of acceleration by that big gap like that so with that said, if any 335 or M3 that would like to say that they will school the ISF then I will welcome that challenge....

Challenge you anytime. Straight line or road course.

[LongCity]

The stage is set... !

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by CSMRX7


Challenge you anytime. Straight line or road course.
Lol can you disable that F/I?

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by arian_ma

Lol can you disable that F/I?

Details ;)

[Clever]

Originally posted by lilmira
There is no way you can stop a Toyota, it's a scientific fact.

Beat that BMW.

LOL, I just giggled like a little girl in class when I read that.

[SilverStreak]

I don't race on the street. However, Secret Street is closed but come April I will see you there and on the track.


List your car and mods. Mine is a stock F.

[shakalaka]

Originally posted by SilverStreak
First of all let's get some facts straight. Lexus has outsold BMW and Benz in the US market for the last 10 years to be the number one luxury selling brand, so they don't need the LFA to pump sales. They built it just because they can.

Secondly, Battle of the Supercars is for entertainment and the testing done is dubious at best. Tanner Foust is a clown, he butchered the LFA test where he couldn't launch worth crap. In out takes the LFA clearly smokes the R8 V10 and after a couple 0-100-0 runs the LFA stopped quicker by a few car lengths, but did they show that? No, that wouldn't be entertaining now would it, so they keep it close.

As for the IS F vs M3, in all other tests and real world documentation, both cars are even up to 150mph then actually the F will take it since it isn't speed limited. They both are close enough to be a drivers race. The M3 has the edge on the track but with the 2010 and 2011 IS F models this is vitally gone as well with the addition on the LSD and suspension tweaks the F receives. The F is better around town and the M has the edge on the track.

As for the Battle of the Supercars, Tanner sandbagged the F, he owns an M3, plus didn't use the sport mode or paddle shift when doing the acceleration test. Also, funny how the F won on the track challenge, odd don't you think? There is no way the F loses a contest of acceleration by that big gap like that so with that said, if any 335 or M3 that would like to say that they will school the ISF then I will welcome that challenge....

Haha

I didn't know what 'fanboy' meant, until I read this. lol

[SilverStreak]

Originally posted by shakalaka


Haha

I didn't know what 'fanboy' meant, until I read this. lol


Funny, I evaluate cars on their relative strengths and if you read you might pick that up in the post.

If you're looking to get involved feel free to join the challenge.....

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by SilverStreak
I don't race on the street. However, Secret Street is closed but come April I will see you there and on the track.


List your car and mods. Mine is a stock F.


Too many too list. To be honest it's in a different league. But I am sure I could find a stock m3 to show you the difference.

Or you can come to the track Sunday and I can pull better laps in my 10 year old m5.

But in all honesty the isf is a nice car but it is not ment for the track. Front straight when I was stock it was even but under braking and in the corners it really was no chance. I am no fan boy, the isf is a great street machine and a great sport sedan but not in the same league as the m3 on the track.

No need to be hostile they are all great cars.

[SilverStreak]

I said that I would give the edge to the M3 on the track, fair that is given. Not disputing that point.

The debate was over acceleration. Stock for stock vs the M3, pretty even, drivers race, vs stock 335 clear win. When you get to modding, then the limits are endless.

Getting back to different league comment, you might be surprised by a 2011 IS F vs the M3. Unfortunately, I have a 2010 with LSD which was 1.5secs faster around Fuji than the 2008-2009s and the 2011 is 2secs faster than the 2010s around Fuji.

To your comment that the F isn't a track car, it was developed at the Ring and Fuji. Don't get me wrong, I nearly bought a 328Cxi, 3 series are good cars. I just preferred something with great overall balance reliability and rarity.

[atgilchrist]

Originally posted by shakalaka


Haha

I didn't know what 'fanboy' meant, until I read this. lol

Haha no kidding.

The ISF is a great car, but to say compare it to a 323 is pretty funny. Of course it's more balanced its got well over double the power.

Besides, if you want straight up acceleration in that class, I'll take the C63. :burnout:

[SilverStreak]

So anyone who puts more than one coherent sentence together with some supporting material is a fanboy? I said I considered the 328Cxi in my list, so was the M3, and decided on the F. It was the best balance of all the things I wanted in my next car and 10x more rare seeing around than a M3.

You have your opinion and I have mine but don't put out short responses with no arguments and use the term fanboy as a crutch.





Originally posted by atgilchrist


Haha no kidding.

The ISF is a great car, but to say compare it to a 323 is pretty funny. Of course it's more balanced its got well over double the power.

Besides, if you want straight up acceleration in that class, I'll take the C63. :burnout:

[atgilchrist]

See, that explanation above is much more fairly considered and rational, without the homerism. You said you looked at a few cars and picked the one that was most balanced and best for your purposes. No one would argue with that.

Fanboi-ism was called you on the previous page because you went on a rant about how Faust sandbagged the LFA and the F, and Toyota built the LFA because "they can", and the F is the best car evarz.

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by SilverStreak
I said that I would give the edge to the M3 on the track, fair that is given. Not disputing that point.

The debate was over acceleration. Stock for stock vs the M3, pretty even, drivers race, vs stock 335 clear win. When you get to modding, then the limits are endless.

Getting back to different league comment, you might be surprised by a 2011 IS F vs the M3. Unfortunately, I have a 2010 with LSD which was 1.5secs faster around Fuji than the 2008-2009s and the 2011 is 2secs faster than the 2010s around Fuji.

To your comment that the F isn't a track car, it was developed at the Ring and Fuji. Don't get me wrong, I nearly bought a 328Cxi, 3 series are good cars. I just preferred something with great overall balance reliability and rarity.

Trust me with the mods my car has it wouldn't remotely be close. I do know that stock for stock the 60-130mph times are close for both cars, but I am about 4 seconds faster now than when I was stock. Additionally when my m3 was stock the IS-F with a good driver was nearly 10sec a lap slower at race city. This is still the fastest time I have seen a lexus run at Race City which is an accomplishment for lexus for sure. Now my car is more than 5 seconds a lap faster than it was when I first lapped with an IS-F.

Now on the street the IS-F has a lot going for it, it is better value, is likely more reliability, better dealer service, super nice seats and a great stereo, and still is just as fast in a straight line. Plus you are right there are way less around.

[SilverStreak]

10sec stock for stock at Race City between the M3 and ISF. That is odd when in other tests around other tracks of the world they are within 1-2 secs. Either the Fs were driven by monkeys or you are Alonso.

[911fever]

I'm with Silverstreak on this. I love E90 M3's, but they are just so damn common and they have unreliability issues (much better than the 335i though), plus they cost more. Having something different with a better interior that's almost / just as fast = win. If I wanted automatic I'd get the IS-F. I want manual so I'd probably get an E90 M3.

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by SilverStreak
10sec stock for stock at Race City between the M3 and ISF. That is odd when in other tests around other tracks of the world they are within 1-2 secs. Either the Fs were driven by monkeys or you are Alonso.

I can read all I want in magazines, but what I can count on is my real world experience. The reality is that experience is limited to a few drivers at one track. Maybe they weren't great drivers, maybe the M3 is easier to drive nearer to the edge and then an amateur drivier like me can get more out of it. Its just a reference. Regardless 2 sec. is a lot that is a 50-100 meter gap per lap at most courses.

We can argue about this all day and no one is going to win. I like both cars, but I stepped in when you through down the challenge that the IS-F would out accelerate and keep up on the track. I still am willing to test this. In my limited experience this has not been the case.

[Ekliptix]

I have no experience driving either cars, but at the dyno shoot out at one of the Calgary tuner shots earlier this year, I was a IS-F put down low 300's. Pretty disappointing considering it's rated at 400hp+ at the engine.

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by shakalaka

Haha..I didn't know what 'fanboy' meant, until I read this. lol

Originally posted by SilverStreak

Funny, I evaluate cars on their relative strengths and if you read you might pick that up in the post. If you're looking to get involved feel free to join the challenge.....

Originally posted by SilverStreak
So anyone who puts more than one coherent sentence together with some supporting material is a fanboy? I said I considered the 328Cxi in my list, so was the M3, and decided on the F. It was the best balance of all the things I wanted in my next car and 10x more rare seeing around than a M3.
You have your opinion and I have mine but don't put out short responses with no arguments and use the term fanboy as a crutch.







Originally posted by SilverStreak
New IS 350awd, will outlast all other cars previously mentioned :D
As stated in the best AWD 4door 300 hp car thread
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=320154&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=2

[Redlyne_mr2]

I spent a full day at the track in a series 1 ISF, I couldn't wait to get back into my 20 year old Toyota track car built and engineered by yours truly lol. I strongly urge anyone who's debating these 2 cars to drive them both at the track if possible. Like I said I'm a huge fanboy for Toyota but there is no denying the fact that the m3 is a faster car regardless of what the magazines say.
Here is what the ISF would need to be awesome
- better dampening on the suspension, or a better matched shock for the stiff spring they run
- Mechanical LSD (added in 09)
- Get rid of that slow 8 speed auto transmission and put something better in, manual or DKG
- Bring some of that weight down, the car is top heavy and you can feel it when you push it.
- Steering rack is brutal, needs much closer ratios

The ISF's have been fairly reliable other than a few small electronic issues but then again so have the M3s. If you're looking for a street car that you can track then it's the ISF, if you want a track car that you can drive on the street it's the M3. That's why I think the 335is is a better competitor to the ISF.

[SilverStreak]

Please consider the atmospheric correction since we are way up there. Normally will dyno, 340-350whp stock. Add header and exhaust and you get 380whp.

Have a look at this page for the dyno charthttp://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-f/419477-independent-dyno-proven-results-by-caymandive-no-bs-here-11.html

11.9 quarter mile at 120mph with just exhaust and header at a more favorable altitude. http://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-f/533594-my-lexus-is-f-now-in-the-11s-all-motor.html



Originally posted by Ekliptix
I have no experience driving either cars, but at the dyno shoot out at one of the Calgary tuner shots earlier this year, I was a IS-F put down low 300's. Pretty disappointing considering it's rated at 400hp+ at the engine.

[SilverStreak]

LSD was added for (2010)
For 2011: - changed suspension (springs, shocks and rear geometry) that improved compliance

Also for 2011, steering ecu change, more responsive on turn in.
Guess you should be a Lexus test driver.



Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
I spent a full day at the track in a series 1 ISF, I couldn't wait to get back into my 20 year old Toyota track car built and engineered by yours truly lol. I strongly urge anyone who's debating these 2 cars to drive them both at the track if possible. Like I said I'm a huge fanboy for Toyota but there is no denying the fact that the m3 is a faster car regardless of what the magazines say.
Here is what the ISF would need to be awesome
- better dampening on the suspension, or a better matched shock for the stiff spring they run
- Mechanical LSD (added in 09)
- Get rid of that slow 8 speed auto transmission and put something better in, manual or DKG
- Bring some of that weight down, the car is top heavy and you can feel it when you push it.
- Steering rack is brutal, needs much closer ratios

The ISF's have been fairly reliable other than a few small electronic issues but then again so have the M3s. If you're looking for a street car that you can track then it's the ISF, if you want a track car that you can drive on the street it's the M3. That's why I think the 335is is a better competitor to the ISF.

[SilverStreak]

Thanks for keeping this civil with at least citing examples and not one line sound bites. I took exception to the comments of blown out of the water time comments based on dubious test from Battle of the Supercars on here.

Stock for stock the ISF and M3 are even from dig and roll in a straight-line test, close enough to be driver. Not like the massive gap shown on the show.

The M3 is the better car for the track, if I drive the 2011 version of the F, with the suspension and steering updates, or change those parts on my 2010 to match, then I'll update the review.





Originally posted by CSMRX7


I can read all I want in magazines, but what I can count on is my real world experience. The reality is that experience is limited to a few drivers at one track. Maybe they weren't great drivers, maybe the M3 is easier to drive nearer to the edge and then an amateur drivier like me can get more out of it. Its just a reference. Regardless 2 sec. is a lot that is a 50-100 meter gap per lap at most courses.

We can argue about this all day and no one is going to win. I like both cars, but I stepped in when you through down the challenge that the IS-F would out accelerate and keep up on the track. I still am willing to test this. In my limited experience this has not been the case.

[Ekliptix]

Originally posted by SilverStreak
Please consider the atmospheric correction since we are way up there. Normally will dyno, 340-350whp stock. Add header and exhaust and you get 380whp.

They dyno was posting corrected #'s, to atmospheric conditions. I've yet to see an ISF run at race city, but I'd wager a stock one would do mid 13's at 100-105mph.

edit: I would drive an ISF as a street car, but would definitly test a 335I first.

[SilverStreak]

That is probably true, stock is low 12s and we lose a second up here so mid 13s would be expected. I'll run in the Spring and will post.



Originally posted by Ekliptix

They dyno was posting corrected #'s, to atmospheric conditions. I've yet to see an ISF run at race city, but I'd wager a stock one would do mid 13's at 100-105mph.

edit: I would drive an ISF as a street car, but would definitly test a 335I first.

[Revhard]

The top gear test had them about 1.5 seconds apart on their track on the same day with the same skilled driver. Considering the ISF got faster, and the M3 hasn't made any ground that I'm aware of, I'd say it's a driver's race on any track of any kind. The magazines are too inconsistent, with the driver variable front and center. Top speed stock for stock is of course no contest.

[962 kid]

For Ekliptix:

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/263295/baseline-dyno-results-for-2008-lexus-is-fdyno-dynamics/

Silverstreak, I'm just curious, but have you ever driven an M3? I've put many kms (not as many as you obviously) on an IS-F, and to be honest I think the M3 is a better car for the street as well as the track. The suspension in the IS-F is absurdly stiff for DD use and the interior is down to personal preference.

[SilverStreak]

Nice find 962kid! Also, it is a local car giving expected dyno numbers. I've driven 535s,335s,135s, and 328s but not have received good seat time behind the M3. That is on the list as well as a good GT R test. I never have considered the 335 since I prefer NA and heavily considered the 328Cxi, very good car, plenty of power but the refinement, paint quality, sound system, and rarity of F made my decision since it was closely matched to the M3.

Red_lyne , can you ask your friend how he likes his Joe Z exhaust setup and if he dynoed again after? Thanks.

[Ekliptix]

Originally posted by 962 kid
For Ekliptix:

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/263295/baseline-dyno-results-for-2008-lexus-is-fdyno-dynamics/

Numbers look good on that one. It was Toma's dyno at the even I saw the ISF at (same dyno), so I wonder why the one I saw was low.