Too many Asians at top universities?

[PsychNerd]

So I found this article today:


Too Asian? (http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/11/10/too-asian/)

Basically the article is saying that many of the top universities in Canada like UBC, UT, Waterloo etc are dominated by Asians due to their hardworking nature. This was a problem in the IV league schools in the US resulting in biased admissions to favor a more white majority despite Asian students working just as hard if not harder to get into these schools. Canada has not done this yet however, the article argues that it is beginning to be a problem:


The dilemma is this: Canadian institutions operate as pure meritocracies when it comes to admissions, and admirably so. Privately, however, many in the education community worry that universities risk becoming too skewed one way, changing campus life—a debate that’s been more or less out in the open in the U.S. for years but remains muted here. And that puts Canadian universities in a quandary. If they openly address the issue of race they expose themselves to criticisms that they are profiling and committing an injustice. If they don’t, Canada’s universities, far from the cultural mosaics they’re supposed to be—oases of dialogue, mutual understanding and diversity—risk becoming places of many solitudes, deserts of non-communication. It’s a tough question to have to think about.

The article argues that this issue of race needs to be addressed to open up dialogue and to encourage interaction between ethnic groups.

What do you guys think?

[KandabashiDevil]

I think the article is ridiculous, and you're a retard for propagating its' sentiment.

:closed:

[PsychNerd]

Well thanks for letting me know that, you're a gentleman.

Just thought I should throw it out there in case people wanted to see what the Canadian media is up to these days. The fact that an article like this is being published means that there are at least a small fraction of people who share it's beliefs. Despite the fact that the presidents of some schools believe that what this article states is not the case, admissions offices may have these beliefs and may unconsciously influence admissions due to this idea. Racial prejudice does not always work on the conscious level. What would it mean for an Asian student like me trying to get into a graduate program?

For the most part I am not going to worry about it, but it is obvious that this idea is at least shared by some individuals. Whether you like it or not. I don't see why sharing this article is a bad thing, it at least let people know the thoughts of some Canadians.

[taemo]

and that's why racismn still exists, if someone is doing better than other their race/gender gets criticized instead of their hard work to get to that point.

[msommers]

All I hear is :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Oh noes, all the Asians are takin our jerbs :rofl: :rofl:

[n1zm0]

^ it's jorbs not jerbs :P

but :whocares:

"dominated by Asians due to their hardworking nature."

white and black ppl can be hardworking too :dunno:

dog eat dog society - why all the whining?

[ronrey]

Those nine irons are pretty smart.....

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
The student with the best grades and credentials should be selected with zero basis on gender or race.... period.

Hey, us slacker white guys gotta get good jorbs too.


“It’s often described that Asians are the new Jews,” says Jon Reider, director of college counselling at San Francisco University High School and a former Stanford University admissions officer.

:rofl: :rofl:


Tough to say what universities should do about this "problem". Asians will always outperform the white middle class that goes to university. Their values are completely different, focusing on hard work and achievement. I wouldn't say that Asians were anti-social at McMaster Uni (my school), but they for the most part stuck to themselves. Especially the mainlanders, I tried to make friends in Eng. but it seemed like they had their own thing and didn't want anybody else in.

I think it's fine that some universities take in mostly white people. Universities like Western have values that parallel white ideals more (ie. partying/socializing). If U of T wants to be mostly Asian, and Western mostly White.... who cares? In the end, employers will pick the best person for the job.

[Godfuader]

That article deserves a big :facepalm: Absolutely retarded piece of "journalism" . These white students are claiming that the Asians are working too hard, and are over achieving? We want to pursue higher education, but feel that there is too much academic focus?? What will these whiners do when they are looking for real jobs and try to list their beer pong trophy as an achievement. Don't want to study hard, go into the trades.

Pearls of Wisdom:


rules out U of T, a school with an academic reputation that can be a bit of a killjoy.

an “Asian” school has come to mean one that is so academically focused that some students feel they can no longer compete or have fun.

“Too Asian” is not about racism, say students like Alexandra: many white students simply believe that competing with Asians requires a sacrifice of time and freedom they’re not willing to make.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
The student with the best grades and credentials should be selected with zero basis on gender or race.... period.

I donno about you but when I applied for certain programs in University I was always asked if I was part of a visible minority or female... Somehow I doubt those questions were innocent and had no reflection on the required grades for being admitted.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Idratherbsidewayz
Asians will always outperform the white middle class that goes to university.

Saying 'Always' is always a problem. ;)

[Pahnda]

It's crap like this and the quotes that Godfuader posted that help me realize WHY so many (predominantly white) people are such imbeciles.

The idea that people who work harder than you reap more rewards is totally lost on the current (and future) generation of these entitlement-seeking rejects.

[R-Audi]

I hope I am saying this politically correct..

But as long as everyone is a legal Canadian citizen, it should be the top grades that get into the top schools. Regardless of ethic/sexual/religous backgrounds.

[Mar]

It doesn't say if we're talking about Canadian citizens or foreigners here.

I think Canadians should get priority for admission into Canadian schools, regardless of race. Which means if you're coming from out of country, Asian or not, you have to work harder to be accepted.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by taemo
and that's why racismn still exists, if someone is doing better than other their race/gender gets criticized instead of their hard work to get to that point.

A contributing factor is that white people simply aren't used to being the minority. On the rare occasion I've gone to say Chinatown with my white friends or something similar, all I ever hear from them is how uncomfortable they feel because they're the only white person in the restaurant, blah, blah, blah. They never hear from me when we go to a pub or something, they, nor I, say a word about me being the only person in the joint with any kind of skin pigment.

Not that I'm excusing the intentional exclusion of Asian student because they "work too hard" but I'm just saying that the white majority often has a hard time being in an environment where they aren't the majority.

[D'z Nutz]

There's too many Black people in the NFL and NBA!! I wanna make millions of dollars too, even though I run out of breath easily, can't catch, can't throw, and have poor eye-hand coordination :cry:

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by Mar
It doesn't say if we're talking about Canadian citizens or foreigners here.

I think Canadians should get priority for admission into Canadian schools, regardless of race. Which means if you're coming from out of country, Asian or not, you have to work harder to be accepted.

That's a pretty hardline stance... immigrants should be on a second tier to Canadian citizens? How bout for jobs as well? If no citizen wants to take the job, then we can open it up to the immigrants.

I wish you would take a similairly hardline stance in your personal life, that way we wouldn't have to read about you getting bullied out of your own houes by a girl :rofl:

[Mar]

Originally posted by Super_Geo


That's a pretty hardline stance... immigrants should be on a second tier to Canadian citizens? How bout for jobs as well? If no citizen wants to take the job, then we can open it up to the immigrants.

I wish you would take a similairly hardline stance in your personal life, that way we wouldn't have to read about you getting bullied out of your own houes by a girl :rofl:
Nobody's forcing you to read anything.

But I'm not talking about jobs, there's no logic behind that. The logic behind university acceptance is that it benefits the national economy to be educating Canadians and getting a return on that investment when the education is put to use in local jobs. If someone from out of country is better qualified for a job let them have it. :dunno:

[dennisaur]

quote from article:

"many white students simply believe that competing with Asians—both Asian Canadians and international students—requires a sacrifice of time and freedom they’re not willing to make. They complain that they can’t compete for spots in the best schools and can’t party as much as they’d like"

haha wtf? that can't be right. whatever happened to good ol' fashioned "working hard" or is that idea totally lost on kids today? where is this sense of entitlement coming from?

[msommers]

University acceptance is based on how they can get the most money haha. Foreign student's tuition is significantly higher than provincal residence's.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by msommers


Saying 'Always' is always a problem. ;)

:rofl: :rofl:

You know what I mean... 99.69% of the time, Asians will outperform white people when it comes to grades... ;)

[Aleks]

Originally posted by sexualbanana


A contributing factor is that white people simply aren't used to being the minority. On the rare occasion I've gone to say Chinatown with my white friends or something similar, all I ever hear from them is how uncomfortable they feel because they're the only white person in the restaurant, blah, blah, blah. They never hear from me when we go to a pub or something, they, nor I, say a word about me being the only person in the joint with any kind of skin pigment.

Not that I'm excusing the intentional exclusion of Asian student because they "work too hard" but I'm just saying that the white majority often has a hard time being in an environment where they aren't the majority.


Would the Chinese majority living in China feel the same way if they walked into a restaruant or part of town filled with white people? :dunno:

[rage2]

Originally posted by Mar
The logic behind university acceptance is that it benefits the national economy to be educating Canadians and getting a return on that investment when the education is put to use in local jobs.
It's already in place. There's a quota for how many foreign students are admitted each year, and they also have to pay something like 4x more for the same education because they're not subsidised like Canadian students.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Idratherbsidewayz


:rofl: :rofl:

You know what I mean... 99.69% of the time, Asians will outperform white people when it comes to grades... ;)

:rofl: Fuckin white people eh

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Super_Geo




I wish you would take a similairly hardline stance in your personal life, that way we wouldn't have to read about you getting bullied out of your own houes by a girl :rofl:

Brilliant. :rofl:

[Little Dragon]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz
There's too many Black people in the NFL and NBA!! I wanna make millions of dollars too, even though I run out of breath easily, can't catch, can't throw, and have poor eye-hand coordination :cry:

I agree!
I am not willing to sacrifice my freedom and spare time, to train as hard as they do, so I can be as good as they are.
It's just not fair!

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by Aleks



Would the Chinese majority living in China feel the same way if they walked into a restaruant or part of town filled with white people? :dunno:

Maybe. I wouldn't know. But from my experiences, my friends (who admittedly are trashy white folk) are the first to talk about how awkward they feel when they are in a location where they have become the visible minority. Me, I'm used to it now and don't bat an eyelash at it.

Purely anecdotal, but I think you get my point.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by rage2

It's already in place. There's a quota for how many foreign students are admitted each year, and they also have to pay something like 4x more for the same education because they're not subsidised like Canadian students.

Yup, qualifying Canadians gets 1st choice into any programs and any left overs, goes to foreign students.

And foreign students pays around $10-$15K/year on tuition depending on which post secondary institute you go to. But I see all 3 institutes in town is evolving to cater more to international students because they are pretty much profit centers.

Asians love to send kids out for school because it's sometime more prestigious and others it's a way to escape homeland in case of instability.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Yup, qualifying Canadians gets 1st choice into any programs and any left overs, goes to foreign students.

Sorta but not quite. The way they do it at the UofC can't speak of the other institutions is they skew the admissions requirements so that 80% of spots are filled by locals then they fill the rest with foreign students. So it's not really like Canadians are getting first choice it's more like 80% of spots are for Canadians while 20% of spots are for foreigners.

Frankly the problem with foreign students is they get their education then go home(Most of them don't choose to stay). It's not really a net benefit to Canada. Additionally Canada even at 15k is super cheap compared to any equivalent school in the USA. So frankly we really should jack the tuition even higher since foreign students are typically wealthy in the first place.

As for asian work ethic... A lot of my friends are asian and it seems like first and second generation work their asses off but frankly it seems to taper off by the third generation.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by rage2

It's already in place. There's a quota for how many foreign students are admitted each year, and they also have to pay something like 4x more for the same education because they're not subsidised like Canadian students.
Yep, my Nigerian friend pays 4x more than I do. I know because his 2 semesters cost around the same amount as my degree! :rofl:

[dandia89]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


As for asian work ethic... A lot of my friends are asian and it seems like first and second generation work their asses off but frankly it seems to taper off by the third generation.

i bet this can be reduced to any race, not only asian.

[Skyline_Addict]

I took yer jorbssssssss!

[tentacles]

http://i.imgur.com/qhblb.jpg

[colt22]

It's true,

[l/l/rX]

haha, i find that post/ statement pretty arrogant. You're in school to do well and receive an education that you pay for. Whether they take the team/ social aspects of school out into the real world is up to them because essentially its up to the employer if they see if this individual has what they're looking for. If they don't land a job because the employer can clearly see they lack in those areas then that's their own fault.

But there is no interview getting into post secondary to see whether or not they have those certain traits. Why are you mad? Because some asian studied harder than your friends to get into uni? If you know the asian culture at all, a lot of them are very hard working and their studies are their main priority, because most likely they come from very traditional asian families.

(My whole post is mostly aimed towards FOB asians, because colt22's post was mostly directed to fobs)

edit: their families are well educated, if they fail in school, they lose face to their family. This means a lot to a mainlander individual. Frick I went to SAIT and I felt like I let my family down and I'm a 2nd generation CBC.

[msommers]

While we're on the Asian hate train...

- Those Asians that walk 4+ side-by-side, walking slow as balls. You know who you are!

- Foreign exchange students taking intro classes of their native language. WTF!

- Those FOBs that use their translators to cheat. Saw that in Sociology and almost lost my shit.

But seriously, I can understand Colt to some extent because lets face it, going to post-secondary is NOT all about getting a 4.0. I remember hearing from an interviewer that they don't even consider 4.0 students because they tend to have no social skills. That said, if your whole group isn't speaking English and won't work with you, fucking say something. It's your grade afterall. Every race has their assholes, just be a man about it.

It's the university's job to make sure you're as educated and equipped as possible when you graduate to move into your career. Upon starting my secondary year, professors were encouraging everyone to work together on assignments, doing group projects and at the end of the day, learn to work with each other because the geology community isn't big and we may be helping one another to get jobs. You don't want to be that fuckwad that doesn't talk to anyone because you're paranoid about losing your 4.0 and then have no contacts and end up sitting on the sidelines while everyone else is happily working and you're jacking off to your transcript :rofl:

[xxviet]

"- Those Asians that walk 4+ side-by-side, walking slow as balls. You know who you are!" :rofl: :rofl:


OMFG i love this thread


http://www.smoothietime.com/dalean1.jpg

[Disoblige]

^^ The last 6 are just wrong.. But whatever floats that person's boat I guess.

[Ergo-Sun-Tzu]

There are some other factors you have to realize when it comes to people being anti-social. One of the factor is social anxiety.

Some of these top "4.0 GPA students" who keep to themselves may have social anxiety, that may have been created from their family environment. There could also be those other people who lack social skills.

Hence, why some people are hard to approach.

But, hell thats just my two cents. Don't kill me for it.

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by colt22
It's true, there are WAY to many asains in universities across canada, especially @ U of C. It appears alot of them are soley out for themselves and have no intentions on giving back to community/ working as a team and developing working or social relationships- all of which employers focus on. They are only concerned with studying their asses off with their face in their books 24/7, in order to get an unnecessarily high GPA. They do nothing interms of involving themselves student life or school spirit (attending sports events, social events ect..). They do not even try to integrate- Most of them hardly speak at all, and if they do its usually in mandrin or japanese during the lecture which pisses everyone off; albiet all people do this unfortunately. They walk around with their hello kitty crap and stand in massive asian groups clogging halls or door ways. They will alienate you if your not asain (got put in a group with 4 asains, half the time they didn't even speak english when we were working on the project).
IT's sad to see asains affecting the curve and making it harder for more socially capable and talented people to get in and do well at the U of C.

note: I am not racist- just making observations from my time at the U of C. I am speaking from a MAJORITY standpoint, of course not all Asians are as I described.

So maybe you should've done better in high school so you could go to Queen's with all the other white people :rofl:

[msommers]

Originally posted by Ergo-Sun-Tzu
There are some other factors you have to realize when it comes to people being anti-social. One of the factor is social anxiety.

Some of these top "4.0 GPA students" who keep to themselves may have social anxiety, that may have been created from their family environment. There could also be those other people who lack social skills.

Hence, why some people are hard to approach.

But, hell thats just my two cents. Don't kill me for it.

The truth of the matter is, many jobs require you to work in a team or the very least, social interaction. If you can't deal with it by post-secondary, it's only going to get worse when you're in a work environment.

My Mother told me this awhile ago and it's becoming more and more true. ~50% is the work you do, the other 50% or so is who you work with. Subsequently, if you are missing out on 50% of your job's enjoyment because you cannot deal with anyone, it's going to be a tough go no matter what you end up doing.

[Ergo-Sun-Tzu]

Originally posted by msommers


The truth of the matter is, many jobs require you to work in a team or the very least, social interaction. If you can't deal with it by post-secondary, it's only going to get worse when you're in a work environment.

My Mother told me this awhile ago and it's becoming more and more true. ~50% is the work you do, the other 50% or so is who you work with. Subsequently, if you are missing out on 50% of your job's enjoyment because you cannot deal with anyone, it's going to be a tough go no matter what you end up doing.

I am not denying your fact. I am just saying some of these people may have some problem, socially. Hence why they keep to themselves.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Pahnda]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


This is just a stereotype anyway, I knew a lot of F.E. students when I went to school... all of them were very social and fun to party with.

:werd:
The percentage of international students I know who like to socialize and go out and have a good time is much higher than the percentage of Canadian students I know who like to socialize and go out and have a good time. In my experience the most uptight, socially awkward and annoying people were often white, too. :dunno:

[Revhard]

That's kind of funny. The whitey complaining about not being able to party because the Asians want to study!!!!
Then, when they study their butt off to get the best grades, they have no social skills. (This is certainly not true of all hard-working Asians, as I know a few personally that are very outgoing and very smart)
Then, people come and say that it's not because they study hard that they have no social skills... holy cow!

The statement about the later generations chilling out is very true.
New Canadians place a real premium on education as it is a way to ensure a certain quality of life. This fact is usually very strongly put forth by the parents, so the kids don't have to work some menial job, or long hours like they do.
I see quite a few 2nd generation welders these days. It is because the pay is good, the education is not difficult or expensive, and the lifestyle is pretty comfy. Getting dirty and long hours may be required. This is not generally something somebody works hard to leave their birth country for, or to have their kids do.
They want better, don't worry, it will wear off eventually!

[thinmyster]

my last class at the UofC was a 500 level petroleum eng option. Out of ~75 students only 7 were white. (granted there wasn't too many asians either)

The only thing that pissed me off was the amount of cheating some of these students (mostly masters students) would do because they could talk to each other is a foreign language (and I couldn't understand what they were saying :nut: )

[max_boost]

So you can be graded on your academics but can't be graded on how cool you are. I didn't know being cool was that important lol haha jk

I guess I can understand both sides of the argument despite never being smart or cool.
:rofl:

[CUG]

Originally posted by KandabashiDevil
I think the article is ridiculous, and you're a retard for propagating its' sentiment.

:closed: That's as ignorant as claiming there's too many Asians in University.

[pyroza]

UC schools no longer practice affirmative action and there is definitely an Asian majority.
Berkeley: 42%
Irvine: 58%
San Diego: 50%

Don't feel like looking up the rest but yeah. I don't really care. :dunno: