Alberta Needs To Copy B.c.’s Tough Drunk Driving Laws – Sooner Rather Than Later

[Markham]

Hi guys

Some of you aren't going to like this op ed piece, but I feel pretty strong about it - for obvious reasons.

http://www.calgarybeacon.com/2010/11/alberta-needs-to-copy-b-c-s-tough-drunk-driving-laws-sooner-rather-than-later/

Markham

[J-D]

Penalties are one thing but you have to realize that at a certain threshold the only way to reduce such activities is with a change in the way society views the action and with solutions that can address the deeper causes of this issue.

First off, the obvious is that most bars have HUGE parking lots. I'm sure there are some designated drivers among that crowd, but who is anyone kidding? I'm not saying that you should eliminate them, but perhaps better monitoring of patrons leaving establishments to their vehicles could assist in this.

Secondly, most people aren't aware of their actual BAC value - most people rely on a weak estimation that doesn't take many factors into account. "Are you good to drive dude?" - "Oh yeah, I'm fine"

Third - the train stops running BEFORE THE BARS CLOSE. (and a lot of bus routes MUCH earlier than that). Taxis are fine but if you look at one of the most vulnerable groups with regards to drinking and driving (students/youth), and a $10 taxi ride from the train station near home becomes a $40 taxi ride from downtown or $70 taxi ride from somewhere else in the city. That's fairly expensive for someone on a fixed income!

[Seth1968]

No amount of education or legal repercussions will have a significant effect in reducing intoxicated drivers. Reason being, when you're tanked, you temporarily don't give a fuck.

[GTS4tw]

Haha, except BC is going to be repealing it since bars and restaurants are dropping like flies. Some of the police are complaining about it, bars are complaining, most citizens are complaining, it just won't work. the people between .05 and .08 are not the major problem on the road.
I wish they would go after things that are a true danger, like distracted driving, tired driving, and general bad driving. Don't come after me because I stopped for a couple beers after work.
The town I grew up in has 2 bars, 1 week after this law came into effect the police were setting up roadblocks on the road right in front of the bars. Business is almost non-existent now and I'm sure it is just a matter of time.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by J-D

Third - the train stops running BEFORE THE BARS CLOSE. (and a lot of bus routes MUCH earlier than that). Taxis are fine but if you look at one of the most vulnerable groups with regards to drinking and driving (students/youth), and a $10 taxi ride from the train station near home becomes a $40 taxi ride from downtown or $70 taxi ride from somewhere else in the city. That's fairly expensive for someone on a fixed income!

This^^^

I'd never take a train or bus home from the bar, but I do take cabs from the bar on a weekly basis. But even our taxi situation is fucked, in the last year I had to take limos home 4 times because I simply could not find a cab anymore. On most weekends it takes me 45 min to find one on the way home from the bar and if you predrink till11:30-midnight like me it's almost impossible to even find one to get you to the bar in the first place.

The cabs here are also a HUGE ripoff, I live in the Aspen area and it costs me $30-$35 to get to Melrose which is a 12 min drive from my place.

[heavyD]

0.5 isn't going to make a difference in fatalities. How many fatal accidents to the drunk drivers have 0.8 or slightly over? I'm willing to bet that it's a very, very small percentage of all fatal accidents involving alcohol. It's the 1.5 to 2.0+ people that can't function that get behind the wheel and run over pedestrians and hit other vehicles. 0.5 isn't going to do anything to stop the typical culprits usually loaded teens, college/university students or heavy drinkers/alcoholic's.

All that law will accomplish is to put lots of drinking establishments out of business but drinkers will always find a place to drink.

[rage2]

Originally posted by GTS4tw
the people between .05 and .08 are not the major problem on the road.
Try the breathalyzer challenge and you'll change your mind. A few beyonders witnessed me at 6am this weekend where I couldn't move because I still had the spins and ready to puke... definately what you would call unsafe to drive. I blew a 0.048 into the breathalyzer. Fact is, you have to be pretty drunk to hit 0.05, and puking/wasted by the time you're at 0.08, which takes a ridiculous amount of alcohol if you drink on a regular basis. The charts of how much you can drink are purely guesstimates for people that do not drink regularly, first time drinkers, etc.

I'm all for mandatory penalties and suspensions starting at 0.05 BAC.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by rage2

Try the breathalyzer challenge and you'll change your mind. A few beyonders witnessed me at 6am this weekend where I couldn't move because I still had the spins and ready to puke... definately what you would call unsafe to drive. I blew a 0.048 into the breathalyzer. Fact is, you have to be pretty drunk to hit 0.05, and puking/wasted by the time you're at 0.08, which takes a ridiculous amount of alcohol if you drink on a regular basis. The charts of how much you can drink are purely guesstimates for people that do not drink regularly, first time drinkers, etc.

I'm all for mandatory penalties and suspensions starting at 0.05 BAC.

You were sick more than drunk at 0.048.

I blew 0.27 once when I was a young chap. Fully functioning as well. The police officers thought there was an error as I was perfectly coherent. I had been drinking all day and drank myself sober.

[J-D]

Originally posted by rage2

Try the breathalyzer challenge and you'll change your mind. A few beyonders witnessed me at 6am this weekend where I couldn't move because I still had the spins and ready to puke... definately what you would call unsafe to drive. I blew a 0.048 into the breathalyzer. Fact is, you have to be pretty drunk to hit 0.05, and puking/wasted by the time you're at 0.08, which takes a ridiculous amount of alcohol if you drink on a regular basis. The charts of how much you can drink are purely guesstimates for people that do not drink regularly, first time drinkers, etc.

I'm all for mandatory penalties and suspensions starting at 0.05 BAC.

I've blown 0.25 on a friends breathalyser before, lol. This is from a University student perspective, but I've seen a lot of friends blow over 0.08 many times.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by J-D


I've blown 0.25 on a friends breathalyser before, lol. This is from a University student perspective, but I've seen a lot of friends blow over 0.08 many times.

I have no problem with the law at 0.08 as it's a weighted average. 0.08 is nothing for some people like me but a 120 lb girl may be walking wobbly. I get that but 0.05 pretty well forces everyone to only drink at home and nullifies any socializing. I'm getting tired of the liberals pussifying this country. You just can't prevent everything but the way things are going we will all end up living in our own fucking bubbles where we can't offend, catch a virus, harm, or do any interaction because we have become so politically correct that the only way to make everyone safe is to have everyone in one spot not interacting physically or verbally. I really fear for my children.

[rage2]

^ One night, we'll do a breathalyzer challenge, and you'd be surprised at the numbers. Unless you're an alcoholic and have developed a functional tolerance, you should have the same results that ~10 of us have seen doing the tests.

It takes me 25+ drinks and an empty stomach to get over 0.08 hehe.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by rage2
^ One night, we'll do a breathalyzer challenge, and you'd be surprised at the numbers. Unless you're an alcoholic and have developed a functional tolerance, you should have the same results that ~10 of us have seen doing the tests.

It takes me 25+ drinks and an empty stomach to get over 0.08 hehe.


I read your thread on the breathalyzer challenge, and the local media did one as well with the police present. Using a police breathalyzer, and drinking over a 2 hour period- First girl was over .05 with 2 glasses of wine, second guy was .039 after 2 beer, third guy was .024 after 4 drinks, fourth guy blew a warn (.05+) after 4 drinks, fifth guy was .023 after 4 drinks, sixth guy got a .041 after 6 shots.

Even though I agree that the results are surprising they are also too different to be able to accurately judge where the line is. .05 for some is just as functional as .02 for others, except the .05 guy loses his car, license, and in my case, his job. Not worth gambling on. If there is even a chance that I will blow over after a couple of drinks then I simply won't drink anything before I drive. I know a lot of other people feel this way as well and it is contributing to the demise of the bar and restaurant business in B.C.

I have had friends get a dui on the old system after being out drinking with them and knowing that they are just barely buzzed, having drank 6~ over a few hours and they have blown over .08. I think it is just too much of a guessing game to destroy peoples lives over. It needs to go back to the way it was, the new system here is just a cash grab and is being used as such. The people being caught are not the ones that are causing the accidents, they are mostly people having a couple after work.

If I'm in Calgary when you do your next test Id love to get in on it, I'm curious as a casual drinker what I would get. I don't have the tolerance of some people since I haven't drank much in the last few years.



Edit: heres the vid of the local test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVVSaF1FIZQ

[redline]

Originally posted by J-D

Third - the train stops running BEFORE THE BARS CLOSE. (and a lot of bus routes MUCH earlier than that). Taxis are fine but if you look at one of the most vulnerable groups with regards to drinking and driving (students/youth), and a $10 taxi ride from the train station near home becomes a $40 taxi ride from downtown or $70 taxi ride from somewhere else in the city. That's fairly expensive for someone on a fixed income!

if money is that tight maybe you should not be drinking in bars...

[J-D]

Originally posted by redline


if money is that tight maybe you should not be drinking in bars...

There's a difference between money being "that tight" and spending $150 or $200 to go to the bar?

[googe]

Originally posted by rage2
^ One night, we'll do a breathalyzer challenge, and you'd be surprised at the numbers. Unless you're an alcoholic and have developed a functional tolerance, you should have the same results that ~10 of us have seen doing the tests.

It takes me 25+ drinks and an empty stomach to get over 0.08 hehe.

You have to realize your test results were not even close to correct. Dunno what you did wrong, maybe you messed up when calibrating it? 0.08 is not nearly as drunk as you guys reported it. Look at ANY published guideline and you will see that your numbers were out to lunch. 4 drinks in an hour and you would hit 0.08, 5 at most.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/motorist/drunkdriving/calculator.htm
http://partysmart.osu.edu/blood_alcohol.asp
http://www.craftbeer.com/pages/beerology/blood-alcohol-content-calculator
http://www.progressive.com/vehicle-resources/blood-alcohol-calculator.aspx
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/HealthIssues/1100827422.html

[g-m]

i"m so glad I don't live in communist BC

[rage2]

Originally posted by googe
You have to realize your test results were not even close to correct. Dunno what you did wrong, maybe you messed up when calibrating it? 0.08 is not nearly as drunk as you guys reported it. Look at ANY published guideline and you will see that your numbers were out to lunch. 4 drinks in an hour and you would hit 0.08, 5 at most.
Yup, and that's why we had multiple subjects do the test. From non drinkers to heavy drinkers. Everybody has a different metabolic tolerance. Basically, the more often you drink, the more enzymes your liver produces which metabolizes alcohol at a much faster rate.

Those published guidelines fall in line for people that do not drink, or drink very little. These subjects easily hit 0.08 with just a few drinks, and they were hammered. The regular drinkers took way more drinks past the published guideline/calculators to hit 0.08, if they could even hit 0.08.

Same device was used, same night, same testing process.