Precious Metals Stores

[derpderp]

Does anyone on here know of any locations I can buy precious metals from, preferably Canadian online stores? Also how about stores in Calgary?

[garnet]

edit: Albern Coin on center and 16th ave

[JBreaks]

I for one will be looking to sell a variety of gold and silver minted coins.. problem is I want spot price at minimum & these "pawn" type brokers tend to loooooow baaallll

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by garnet
Alberta Coin on center and 16th ave


Albern Coin.

http://www.albern.com/

Jbreaks see above.


EDIT:

If you're willing to risk having your name and address and a huge paper trail attached to your PM purchase, then buy online from Sprott Metals.

https://www.sprottmoney.com/

Rgs,

B

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by JBreaks
I for one will be looking to sell a variety of gold and silver minted coins.. problem is I want spot price at minimum & these "pawn" type brokers tend to loooooow baaallll


*caugh


on second thought, if you are selling at spot, i have money for you.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by JBreaks
I for one will be looking to sell a variety of gold and silver minted coins.. problem is I want spot price at minimum & these "pawn" type brokers tend to loooooow baaallll

Here is why gold is a shitty investment.

The moment that everyone wants to cash in their gold the price will plummet as people accept less and less to change it back into a usable currency.

At the end of the day. Cash is king.

[JBreaks]

I would agree that at an average investors capital tolerance physical gold is a less then prime investment.. major part of investment value is liquidity, which is far more scarce for a handful of gold coins than for equities.. If you are the proud owner of multiple gold bars however, institutional investors will provide you that liquidity.


As for my post above... let me clarify:

I would be willing to sell for No Less then spot, eg.) the value of physical weight, particularly for the gold coin (1979 - 1/2 oz. 22K "year of the children" Canadian mint $100 coin, 250,000 minted). ~16 g's weight

14g purity x (1oz/28g)x $1375/oz (todays price) = $687.50

For instance a coin place near Stephen Ave. offered me $500 for this coin on a day when spot price was >$1420 couple weeks back... showing the same coin in worse condition on display with a price tag of $850.... NO thank you.

Silver coins (Mine are Montreal Olympic set + several "polar bear" cased) trade with a much higher "minting" premium, typically around $25-35/coin.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by sputnik


Here is why gold is a shitty investment.

The moment that everyone wants to cash in their gold the price will plummet

Umm, you can say that about any investment period. What’s your point?

[BigMass]

Originally posted by JBreaks
I would agree that at an average investors capital tolerance physical gold is a less then prime investment.. major part of investment value is liquidity, which is far more scarce for a handful of gold coins than for equities.. If you are the proud owner of multiple gold bars however, institutional investors will provide you that liquidity.


As for my post above... let me clarify:

I would be willing to sell for No Less then spot, eg.) the value of physical weight, particularly for the gold coin (1979 - 1/2 oz. 22K "year of the children" Canadian mint $100 coin, 250,000 minted). ~16 g's weight

14g purity x (1oz/28g)x $1375/oz (todays price) = $687.50

For instance a coin place near Stephen Ave. offered me $500 for this coin on a day when spot price was >$1420 couple weeks back... showing the same coin in worse condition on display with a price tag of $850.... NO thank you.

Silver coins (Mine are Montreal Olympic set + several "polar bear" cased) trade with a much higher "minting" premium, typically around $25-35/coin.

First off, as you already know, you’re not going to get any type of numismatic value for your coin. That’s why in general its better off sticking to bullion coins like Maples over more eclectic, less recognizable coins. Second, you should have no problem getting spot for your coin. Just because you got a rip off offer from one place doesn’t mean that’s what people are willing to pay. Spot price is what people are willing to pay. Go to Albern Coins or Diverse Equities and they will give you spot for your stuff easily. Some shady small time coin dealer or pawn shop is obviously going to try and rip you off just so they can make a quick buck. Or, there is absolutely nothing wrong with selling it privately on kijiji or here. Heck you already have an offer from broken_legs

[roopi]

Originally posted by sputnik


At the end of the day. Cash is king.

Which currency of cash is king?

[bcylau]

US dollhairs, obviously

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by sputnik


Here is why gold is a shitty investment.

The moment that everyone wants to cash in their gold the price will plummet as people accept less and less to change it back into a usable currency.

At the end of the day. Cash is king.

And when people start accepting Gold and Silver as payment because the currency they used to use is now worthless?

I'm not "investing" in gold and silver, i am "Saving" or safeguarding my wealth.

Cash offer still stands - I can pay in USD in Calgary right now for GML and SML.

Rgs,

B

[derpderp]

Hello my name is $ and I'm the king of cash.

http://equipmentfinance.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/cash_vs_lease2.jpg

I'm with broken_legs on this one, I'm not trying to invest I just want to store some money in metals.

[garnet]

Originally posted by garnet
Albern Coin on center and 16th ave

sry, Albern, my bad, edit

[JBreaks]

If your actually looking to pick up some metals, give me a PM. CND$ vastly preferred.

Albern link to the gold:

http://store.albern.com/cgi/viewItem.cgi?item-number=10358&location=canada&site=2&session-ID=12j90N61s51i280&t=237172

[DRKM]

Originally posted by BigMass


Umm, you can say that about any investment period. What’s your point?

Your right, that can happen to any investment. But when you are holding physical gold as opposed to an index or etf, you can not just click a button and stop your bleeding loses. Just imagine the liquity if gold suddenly crashed and all of the people holding gold would try and sell there bars?

Spread like a ten cent whore.

[TomK]

Originally posted by DRKM


Your right, that can happen to any investment. But when you are holding physical gold as opposed to an index or etf, you can not just click a button and stop your bleeding loses. Just imagine the liquity if gold suddenly crashed and all of the people holding gold would try and sell there bars?

Spread like a ten cent whore.

If stocks start crashing suddenly, they will just shut down the markets making it impossible for anyone to sell. The system can work against anyone at any time.

People hold gold in order to wait out the transition from one paper money system to the next paper money system. It's not really about "making money".

[sputnik]

Originally posted by TomK


If stocks start crashing suddenly, they will just shut down the markets making it impossible for anyone to sell. The system can work against anyone at any time.

People hold gold in order to wait out the transition from one paper money system to the next paper money system. It's not really about "making money".

The thing with gold is that it inherently really has no real value but rather a perceived value against the currency of the day.

If one day a whole bunch of gold is found and prices crash what do you do?

It is an inflationary hedge at BEST to protect yourself from letting uninvested cash dwindle at the hands of inflation.

I personally would rather invest in companies that are actually making money making and selling things that people need that way you make money when they make money regardless of the currency of the day or the rate of inflation.

Warren Buffett even thinks gold is a stupid investment.

[ZenOps]

Warren Buffet doesn't like gold.

But he loves Silver. He had 2.3 million ounces of silver just a while ago. Which he was investaged by the SEC for - because they thought he was making too much money on it. You know you've got a good investment when the SEC comes a knocking.

Its true, there are more practical industrial uses for silver than gold, but silver is also much more common than gold. Even so, one man nearly bought out all the silver in the world, and that wasn't all that long ago.

BTW: Does anyone else think the new Silver Wolf is overpriced? I wouldn't pay a buck more per ounce compared to a Maple Leaf? Yes/no?

[sputnik]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Warren Buffet doesn't like gold.

But he loves Silver. He had 2.3 million ounces of silver just a while ago. Which he was investaged by the SEC for - because they thought he was making too much money on it. You know you've got a good investment when the SEC comes a knocking.

Its true, there are more practical industrial uses for silver than gold, but silver is also much more common than gold. Even so, one man nearly bought out all the silver in the world, and that wasn't all that long ago.

BTW: Does anyone else think the new Silver Wolf is overpriced? I wouldn't pay a buck more per ounce compared to a Maple Leaf? Yes/no?

Silver is really only and industrial commodity as it has no bearing (not that gold does either) to any currency. It is purchased solely for manufacturing other products that are bought on the open market.

No different than him investing in a coal mine, energy company, cotton farm or copper mine. These commodites are actually consumed and don't just sit in a vault being shiny.

[ZenOps]

Then the US should sell its 8,000 tonnes (a little less than $400 Billion) to China. And copper too.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-25/pboc-researcher-calls-on-u-s-to-sell-gold-reserves-people-s-daily-says.html

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_49/b4206066273601.htm

Its only worthless gold afterall, right? I think $395 Billion would cover one year of interest payments, lol.

[TomK]

Originally posted by sputnik

These commodites are actually consumed and don't just sit in a vault being shiny.


The fact that gold is relatively useless outside of jewelry is precisely what makes it good for use as money (aside from it's other "good money" properties like being rare, easily divisible, difficult to counterfeit and non-perishable).

If silver or copper were used, everyone would complain that industry is unable to perform its function, starved of those commodities because people are hoarding them under their mattresses or in bank vaults.

The Europeans are tossing around the idea of increasing the size of their rescue fund again. Nearly every move made since 2008 has done nothing but weaken the balance sheets of various central banks. Bailouts do nothing to solve the debt problems but go a long way towards undermining public confidence in any sort of "fairness".

The QE2 program being run by the Fed amounts to printing all the money required to cover government budget shortfalls. In the announcement they also reserved the right to "adjust" the amounts they print "as necessary". I don't think any country has ever taken this step and not had its currency collapse sooner or later.

I don't see any sign they (the problems or their "solutions") are going to stop, so I'm not really sure why these "anti-system" bets are set to collapse any time soon. Owning gold has risk just like anything else, but "anything else" has its own risks too.

I'm also not sure what is the "fundamental value" of anything in a near 0% interest rate environment and where everything from Real Estate to Auto Sales to the stock market (pomo) is subject to various "stimulus" plans. Seems like all a man can do is try to front run the central bankers and government planners while also not holding the paper they create for too long.

As an aside, here is a speech about gold from Warren's father:

http://www.fame.org/pdf/buffet3.pdf

[BigMass]

Originally posted by sputnik


The thing with gold is that it inherently really has no real value but rather a perceived value against the currency of the day.

If one day a whole bunch of gold is found and prices crash what do you do?

It is an inflationary hedge at BEST to protect yourself from letting uninvested cash dwindle at the hands of inflation.

I personally would rather invest in companies that are actually making money making and selling things that people need that way you make money when they make money regardless of the currency of the day or the rate of inflation.

Warren Buffett even thinks gold is a stupid investment.

Gold has no value. Cool. I always thought it actually cost time and labor to explore for gold then to mine it. Now I find out it’s free.

Seriously though. Your “what if one day…”. Come on. Because gold isn’t ever really used up we pretty much have all the gold ever mined on earth up to now. You know how much that is? Just over a trillion dollars worth. In bank reserves it’s under 400 billion. The world has over 55 trillion dollars in debt alone. What’s more likely, that they magically find another trillion dollars in gold, or that the government prints another trillion dollars in currency. In 2010 alone the US budget deficit was 1.5 trillion. That’s more than the entire gold supply of the world. I think you’re vastly understimating the scarcity and true value of gold.

%10 of gold is used in industry and ever year there are more and more uses found because of its unique properties. Who’s to say in the future that a major scientific discovery won’t require gold… But as others have said, Gold is money because of it’s properties. It’s unique in what it can offer. In the end you don’t want a highly consumed commodity as a currency peg because it’s susceptible to fluctuations, inflation and deflation. The stability of the gold supply makes it far more attractive to peg against.

The DOW has gone NOWHERE in 10 years. Gold has gone from 300-1400. So just looking at the facts without any bias, the market tells you that you’re wrong. But people will still have tunnel vision no matter what. If Gold hits 10,000 and the DOW is at 10,000 people still still be laughing at Gold and talking up the market. That’s why the average person remains poor while the elite get rich.

Oh and spare me on Warren Buffet. He’s; the biggest government shill / cheerleader in history. Because he his so well known and respected the government gets him to come out with total crap during crisis to manipulate the stupid public. He was talking crap during the real-estate bubble, during the market crash and now during the run-up in gold. He’s a genius investor but what he says in public is mostly all BS to influence the market one way or another. George Soros is another guy that says one thing and does another. Last year he was bashing gold while his fund was buying it hand over fist. A joke really.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by BigMass
Gold has no value. Cool. I always thought it actually cost time and labor to explore for gold then to mine it. Now I find out it’s free.

Other than the 10% of the gold used in industrial applications gold serves no purpose other than to convert it to paper money at whatever the markets perceive it to be worth. There is no logic behind the price of gold other than what suckers are willing to buy the stuff for at the moment.

Sure it is nice and shiny, but for the most part it is useless.

If you want to invest in commodities, buy something that actually has some tangible use and marketable value.


Originally posted by BigMass
%10 of gold is used in industry and ever year there are more and more uses found because of its unique properties. Who’s to say in the future that a major scientific discovery won’t require gold… But as others have said, Gold is money because of it’s properties. It’s unique in what it can offer. In the end you don’t want a highly consumed commodity as a currency peg because it’s susceptible to fluctuations, inflation and deflation. The stability of the gold supply makes it far more attractive to peg against.

The higher the price of gold, the more likely industry will look for new materials and methods to avoid having to pay for gold for their technology.

If anything there has been less and less gold used in industry and technology as better synthetic alloys and coatings are being developed.


Originally posted by BigMass
The DOW has gone NOWHERE in 10 years. Gold has gone from 300-1400. So just looking at the facts without any bias, the market tells you that you’re wrong. But people will still have tunnel vision no matter what. If Gold hits 10,000 and the DOW is at 10,000 people still still be laughing at Gold and talking up the market. That’s why the average person remains poor while the elite get rich.

However in the past 15 years the DOW has more than tripled and historically has retained a growth rate of over 11% when considering the great depression and countless world wide recessions and commodities busts.

Consider buying gold in 1980. At the time gold had a spot price of $700 (even climbing to nearly $900). People thought that EVERYONE should invest in gold as a result of a commodities bust and major recession. That was 30 years ago with 1980 dollars. Following that gold fell to under $300 and sat there until 2001. Twenty one years of nothing but losses.

Now we see another gold frenzy started by a dot-com bust, a couple of wars and a financial collapse. Gold might seem crazy at $1400 but when you compare it to $900 in 1980 it seems pretty par for the course.

Guess what happens when the economy recovers and people move their money from gold to equities.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by sputnik


Other than the 10% of the gold used in industrial applications gold serves no purpose other than to convert it to paper money at whatever the markets perceive it to be worth. There is no logic behind the price of gold other than what suckers are willing to buy the stuff for at the moment.

Sure it is nice and shiny, but for the most part it is useless.

If you want to invest in commodities, buy something that actually has some tangible use and marketable value.



The higher the price of gold, the more likely industry will look for new materials and methods to avoid having to pay for gold for their technology.

If anything there has been less and less gold used in industry and technology as better synthetic alloys and coatings are being developed.



However in the past 15 years the DOW has more than tripled and historically has retained a growth rate of over 11% when considering the great depression and countless world wide recessions and commodities busts.

Consider buying gold in 1980. At the time gold had a spot price of $700 (even climbing to nearly $900). People thought that EVERYONE should invest in gold as a result of a commodities bust and major recession. That was 30 years ago with 1980 dollars. Following that gold fell to under $300 and sat there until 2001. Twenty one years of nothing but losses.

Now we see another gold frenzy started by a dot-com bust, a couple of wars and a financial collapse. Gold might seem crazy at $1400 but when you compare it to $900 in 1980 it seems pretty par for the course.

Guess what happens when the economy recovers and people move their money from gold to equities.

Your entire premise is that gold has no value and is worthless and it makes no sense for people to own it. When people come in this thread to inform you about how that’s wrong, you assume those people live in a square box, naked, surrounded by gold bars. There is a big step that you’re taking assuming that you think a) gold has no real value, to b) gold is the only thing anyone should own because it’s magical and will summon you everything you need when the apocalypse comes.

Gold high in 1980 was a bubble. Gold started out at $35/oz in 1974. That’s an insane move. You see a frenzy, I see an inflated money supply. After the dot com bubble, low interest rates and an increase in M1 fueled the rise in the price of gold. Not a frenzy. In the 80s gold dropped because it became worthwhile to own cash again due to the %20 interest rates. For gold to have any sort of crash you would have to assume interest rates are going to get jacked up again which is impossible with the debt countries have recently undertaken. If governments start issuing gold backed currency again and jack up rates then it would become worthwhile to exchange your gold for cash. Until then it’s an asset class like any others. Not the be all and end all of life like you assume people that own gold believe.

[TomK]

Originally posted by BigMass

In the 80s gold dropped because it became worthwhile to own cash again due to the %20 interest rates.

this.

To expand a little more, Volker's actions made the markets believe the US was serious about defending the value of it's currency (the interest rate hikes just about destroyed the economy for a while but they did it anyway to defend the dollar).

Is there anyone in any significant political office or central bank willing to make the people take their medicine now the way Volker did then? If there is, then gold will become considerably less attractive, otherwise people will increasingly look to gold, silver, land, commodities or anything else "non-paper" when there goal is simple wealth preservation.

The best argument against holding gold in the long term is that it has no yield and produces nothing. By holding it over the last few years you have missed out on the opportunity to earn a minuscule rate of interest on "safe" government bonds. Ironically you did pretty well compared to the stock market too, even though that's not necessarily the goal.

[ZenOps]

Its exactly that it is used as jewelery that makes it valuable.

Why is compressed coal worth millions for something that is usually smaller than a pea?

Why is a picasso painting worth 100+ million.

That a vast majority of people use it for adornment, means that it is considered to be a vast value and importance. People wipe their asses with Nortel shares, and light Cuban Cigars with US $100 bills.

[dawerks]

If we reach 'end game' and have to use gold as money, guess what?

Money/gold/silver etc will be the LEAST of your worries. If you know what a 'grass soup' recipe is, guess what! But the time you have to use it, there won't be any grass left.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by dawerks
If we reach 'end game' and have to use gold as money, guess what?

Money/gold/silver etc will be the LEAST of your worries. If you know what a 'grass soup' recipe is, guess what! But the time you have to use it, there won't be any grass left.

I wish people would stop equating gold ownership with some crazy “end game”. Like people that own gold are somehow preparing for the apocalypse. I have no clue where that idiocy even came from. The human race went through the Egyptian, Greek and Roman empires which were far greater than the current American empire and continued to survive. We went through the bubonic plague and other mass panics. I don’t know why the American dollar collapsing or the current economic system would be equated with the apocalypse. If the American dollar collapses the world will still go on and gold will still have value. Owning gold has nothing to do with Armageddon so please stop the these platitudes.

[ZenOps]

Who wants to survive.

I want to thrive. All the people who made out gangbusters out of collapses of empires were the ones who had the forsight to move out of the currency (and physically away from where the empire was collapsing)

Which also means staying far away from the now $7,500 average house in Detroit. Western Canada should be ok, as well as the Turk and Caicos Islands.

California is bad - because its running out of water.

Gold is nice in that you can move back into a currency of choice when the dust settles.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Gold is nice in that you can move back into a currency of choice when the dust settles.

Which would be nice if it wasn't for the fact that gold is traded using US currency and will be for as long as we are alive.

Also, those that bought gold when the CDN dollar was around 60-70 cents their gains aren't as strong as one would think and more than anything reflect the poor performing USD than the value of gold.

[sputnik]

This thread makes me want to invest in Alcoa.

[ZenOps]

China does not accept US dollars for currency or trade. And for good reason. Its Gold or Yuan. Preferrably gold Pandas, but Krugerrands will also suffice.

China also does not accept Zimbabwean dollars in direct trade for Yuan.

But if you understand macroeconomics, China will definitely take on US debt in US dollars.

Only in Bretton Woods nations do they peg metals to US dollars. Thats only 42 nations out of 192. Technically, there are more nations in the British commonwealth (54) than nations that peg to US.

That the head of the IMF suggested that dollars be pegged to metals (like they were for literally thousands of years before the 1930's) is a wake up call.

You have been sufficiently brainwashed if you believe that a house in Detroit is a good value at $7,500 US. I would consider a house in Detroit to be good value at 1/2 ounce of gold.

A relatively safe place to keep your money intact is in US nickels, which are actually nickel and have an inherent value of about 5.9 cents. US bills = worthless, US electronic credit = worthless. That is if one absolutely insists on staying with the US dollar.

Although transportation costs would be too high for most people to make use of rolls of nickels.

PS: There is no way in hell that a $3 loaf of bread is actually worth $3 (300) worth of copper pennies.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


One thing that has not been mentioned yet on here is the Royal Canadian Mint is running a pilot program of selling 1oz gold wafers online for the first time ever; they have about a 15% markup though and it seems like you have to jump through a few extra hoops to get them online.

http://www.mint.ca/store/coin/1oz-gold-bullion-wafer-prod850001

I haven't figured out if wafers have liquidity as good as maple leaf coins though.

Total rip off considering you can locally buy bars from %2-3 and coins from %4-5 over spot. Coins have a side advantage of functioning as currency as well as bullion and the Maple is one of the most recognizable and accepted coins around the world. Both the bar or coin would be very liquid regardless.

[ZenOps]

Mint.ca on Bullion is a rip, but ok for retail investors.

Kitco now sells to Canada (but Ive never tried them)

If you want to buy actual non-precious by the tonne, the London Metals Exchange is where its at. 350,000 tonnes of physical copper as of Friday, bring a truck :P

[TomK]

Originally posted by BigMass


I don�t know why the American dollar collapsing or the current economic system would be equated with the apocalypse. If the American dollar collapses the world will still go on and gold will still have value

The funny thing is, the Federal Reserve is America's third central bank (depending on what your definition of "central bank" is). The first two failed.

I'm pretty certain that the eventual failure of the US Dollar will be resolved with the establishment of America's fourth central bank issuing new pieces of paper called "Super dollars" or something. Whats at issue is what happens to those holding the current paper when that time comes.

The Irish government is raiding the people's pensions to help fund the bailout. Any talk of investors taking even a token haircut on their bad decisions has been completely ruled out just like with Greece. Modern finance is a wealth transfer mechanism conducted at the expense of those who have no legal alternative to using unbacked paper money.

None of this matters much to the common person until the system approaches the point where there is nothing left to steal.