Stove Question

[TimG]

I'm finally busting out of my rental and my wife and I bought a house recently. We are going to be buying a new stove among other big appliances this week and now we're faced with the old question : convection vs gas (induction is not in the cards).


Just wondering what you bought and why? Which would you prefer?

[guessboi]

Do you have a gas line? either a coil top or a gas one will be fine. Recommand not to go for a smooth top unless you are just going for looks and not for cooks!

[codetrap]

Originally posted by TimG
I'm finally busting out of my rental and my wife and I bought a house recently. We are going to be buying a new stove among other big appliances this week and now we're faced with the old question : convection vs gas (induction is not in the cards).


Just wondering what you bought and why? Which would you prefer?

My gas stove has a convection oven. So, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[Vdubbin]

I've got a Gas convection oven and I love it. I've cook quite a bit with the gas and I like the instant on/off aspect of it as well and having a nice convection oven as it tends to bake more evenly. I also have 5 burners instead of the usual 4 and they vary in size so there's small ones for smaller pots that also use less gas and large ones when I cooking up a big pot of stock.

I had a glass top one when I first moved into my new house and I grew to hate it. While it was fast to boil water it's a pain to clean and apparently if you set a warm tray from the oven or something onto it you can crack the glass top. So that's why I switched to a gas one.

[TimG]

Sorry, i mean the traditional heating elements (coil or glass top) on the range portion vs gas.

[masoncgy]

Dual fuel: gas cooktop with an electric 'true convection' oven is the best way to go if you want the best of both worlds combined in one range.

True convection = fan with it's own heating element. Quick bake convection is simply a fan that blows around the existing heat within the cavity, so something to pay attention to.

What sort of price range are you looking at for this particular piece?

[bjstare]

Curious as to why induction isn't in the cards? Don't have stainless steel pots?

[bignerd]

If you have a gas line, gas burners all the way.

[bignerd]

Induction (I think those are the glass tops?) require a lot of special care, special cleaners etc... everyone I know that has bought one regrets it after.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by masoncgy
Dual fuel: gas cooktop with an electric 'true convection' oven is the best way to go if you want the best of both worlds combined in one range.



+100000000000

[89coupe]

Originally posted by TimG
I'm finally busting out of my rental and my wife and I bought a house recently. We are going to be buying a new stove among other big appliances this week and now we're faced with the old question : convection vs gas (induction is not in the cards).


Just wondering what you bought and why? Which would you prefer?

My fiancee is a big time cook & I'm a big time neat freak. We currently have a glass top stove top and it works just fine. But I love it cause its so easy to keep clean.

Gas tops are a pain in the ass to clean if you like to cook a lot.

You can get convection ovens for either electric or gas.

Induction IMO is the best route, but are big dollars, not for everyone. The house I'm building currently will have induction.

Plus, if the house you bought doesn't have a gas line in place, be prepared to fork out money for that as well.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by 89coupe


My fiancee is a big time cook & I'm a big time neat freak. We currently have a glass top stove top and it works just fine. But I love it cause its so easy to keep clean.

Gas tops are a pain in the ass to clean if you like to cook a lot.

You can get convection ovens for either electric or gas.

Induction IMO is the best route, but are big dollars, not for everyone. The house I'm building currently will have induction.

Plus, if the house you bought doesn't have a gas line in place, be prepared to fork out money for that as well.

I disagree on cleaning a gas top. I think they're pretty much as easy to clean as anything else. And I love to eat, as anyone who's met me in person can attest.

I kept the gas in our house for a few reasons. One of them is that I can cook during a power outage, and use it to warm the house. Another is that I think it's cheaper to cook with gas. More energy efficient overall from the ground up carbon footprint. (yes, I know it's a can of worms, but there's a lot of NG energy generation in alberta, I'm cutting out the middleman). Yet another is that I like the instant control of heat with the flame vs the element.

All in all, it comes down to personal preference.

As an aside, I totally disagree that induction is the best method. The cost of getting an induction stove is prohibitive, and then you have to ensure that you have induction compatible pots/pans, which is another added expense. The cost analysis of this amortized even over 20 years doesn't make sense. It's got a great geek factor, but it's simply too expensive to make sense.

[TimG]

Yeah i know about the gas line. My parents had a gas stove for the longest time when i was growing up so i'm kind of familiar with them.

Fortunately in the new place the furnace is almost directly underneath the kitchen, so getting a gas line up to the stove isn't a big deal. Anyone know what it costs to run a gas line?

Price range: we're still kind of open to that. Someone else posted a dual fuel kitchen aid in another thread and that caught my eye. We're going to make a trip down to trail appliances tonight and have a look.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by TimG
Anyone know what it costs to run a gas line?



Depends on how handy you are. I ran gas to my bbq for about $50, all in. I tied it into the line that runs off my gas fireplace. It was pretty easy to do, but I did have the advantage of my dad's experience. He's not a gas fitter, but he's an old handyman with plenty of experience.

I can't see pulling a gas line up through the floor being very expensive though. Especially if you do all the prep work drilling etc.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by codetrap


I disagree on cleaning a gas top. I think they're pretty much as easy to clean as anything else. And I love to eat, as anyone who's met me in person can attest.

I kept the gas in our house for a few reasons. One of them is that I can cook during a power outage, and use it to warm the house. Another is that I think it's cheaper to cook with gas. More energy efficient overall from the ground up carbon footprint. (yes, I know it's a can of worms, but there's a lot of NG energy generation in alberta, I'm cutting out the middleman). Yet another is that I like the instant control of heat with the flame vs the element.

All in all, it comes down to personal preference.

As an aside, I totally disagree that induction is the best method. The cost of getting an induction stove is prohibitive, and then you have to ensure that you have induction compatible pots/pans, which is another added expense. The cost analysis of this amortized even over 20 years doesn't make sense. It's got a great geek factor, but it's simply too expensive to make sense.

About the only advantage gas has over induction is that you can run it during a power outage. Living in this city for over 25 years now I've never seen a power outage last more then a minute.

Induction reacts faster.
Boils water faster.
Cooks more evenly.
...and is more energy efficient.

It also does not emit heat anywhere but the surface its cooking, and scorched spill overs are something of the past.

[benyl]

Originally posted by TimG
Yeah i know about the gas line. My parents had a gas stove for the longest time when i was growing up so i'm kind of familiar with them.

Fortunately in the new place the furnace is almost directly underneath the kitchen, so getting a gas line up to the stove isn't a big deal. Anyone know what it costs to run a gas line?

Price range: we're still kind of open to that. Someone else posted a dual fuel kitchen aid in another thread and that caught my eye. We're going to make a trip down to trail appliances tonight and have a look.

You better look into all aspects.

Even in the new house I am building, the cost of gas is more than just the stove.

You need a new hood fan. That hood fan will likely need to be hooked up to your furnace in order to make up the air being drawn out by the new hood fan.

It will probably cost you $2-$3K over the price of the stove if you do it right with all the permits.

I would get a permit for insurances purposes.

[89coupe]

Here is a little vid showing some benefits of induction.

yWxr3m2Au2s

[89coupe]

You can also get them in regular push in stoves now.

5zh05F370Yk

[89coupe]

Cooking demonstration with a professional Chef. Induction vs Gas.

BUU1szZePgw

[codetrap]

Originally posted by benyl


You better look into all aspects.

Even in the new house I am building, the cost of gas is more than just the stove.

You need a new hood fan. That hood fan will likely need to be hooked up to your furnace in order to make up the air being drawn out by the new hood fan.

It will probably cost you $2-$3K over the price of the stove if you do it right with all the permits.

I would get a permit for insurances purposes.

Can you qualify this? I was under the impression that any properly installed hood fan will vent outside, so it will work for a gas stove. Also, why a furnace interlink for makeup air? Isn't there enough air leakage in the house? I can't see a range hood pulling more air than my bathroom ceiling fan.. in fact, I know it doesn't. :)

And permits? The whole cost in permits for my basement development was less than $200. From the calgary website a gas permit is $70, + $7.98/$1000 cost of the job, not to exceed $560.

89coupe: We've had enough power outages here in Coventry Hills that I bought a generator for backup. It'll probably improve when they get the new substation up and running, but the power up here is crappy. I don't disagree that induction stoves are more efficent, but they're not worth the additional cost. You can never offset that cost with the efficiency within the lifetime of the appliance, so it's not worth it. As far as cooking more evenly and boiling water faster? With a decent set of pots, nobody is going to notice the differences without specific measuring equipment, so it's really arguing over the relative size of mouse nuts.

In my opinion, it's a cost issue, and induction stoves simply aren't there yet. In a couple of years when they're on par with Gas Ranges, then sure. But not now.

[TimG]

Ditto. I've never heard of needing a special hood fan for a gas stove.

The only immediate benefit that I can see with induction is that they would be safer if you have kids or pets.

[benyl]

Originally posted by codetrap


Can you qualify this? I was under the impression that any properly installed hood fan will vent outside, so it will work for a gas stove. Also, why a furnace interlink for makeup air? Isn't there enough air leakage in the house? I can't see a range hood pulling more air than my bathroom ceiling fan.. in fact, I know it doesn't. :)


The problem with existing hood fans is usually a clearance issue rather than an exhaust issue.

Those over the range microwave hood fan units generally don't have enough clearance. So you need to buy a new hood fan. Good luck finding a new hood fan that vents less than 180 cfm.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=2960205#post2960205

Most bathroom fans are between 50-80 cfm. If your house is leaking 300-600 cfm, I would buy a new house.


A kitchen exhaust fan rated for up to and including 300 cfm
may be installed in a house that is served by a forced air heat-
ing system without any extra consideration for make-up air.
This is based on Section 9.32 of the 1997 Alberta Building
Code that permits a deficit of 160 cfm and the typical fresh
air duct sized for forced air systems.
If the exhaust fan is rated for over 160 cfm, then the fan
must be interlocked with a make-up air source, such as a
forced air furnace with a fresh air duct from the outdoors to
the return air duct. When the rated capacity exceeds 300 cfm,
the make-up air supply must be designed to bring in enough
air and may require pre-heating to maintain mixed air tem-
peratures in the return air system.

[sputnik]

I would go with a higher end conventional (non induction) electric smooth top stove.

- Why electric?

Gas lines aren't cheap and they are definitely NOT a DIY job. The standard cost in Calgary (what my father in law charges) for a basic gas line (simple and easy access install) is about $700-1000. That includes the inspection and permit and is done by a certified journeyman. Gas also throws a LOT more unnecessary heat when cooking. With electric you don't need to use oven mitts to hold your pot and pan handles and are more energy effecient.

- Why not induction?

If you have the extra $800-1000 to burn, then go for it. Otherwise save your money. Sure it might not get hot and keep overflowed food from burning, but its not worth the money to me either. I have also heard that some models are a bit noisy due to the fans required to keep the coils cool.

- Why smooth top?

Easier to clean than gas. Get a Vileda Scrunge ($2) and the top cleans like new every time. With a gas stove you have to take the grates off and scrub them by hand and then clean the top around the burners. Its a serious PITA. I like cooking with gas, I just hate the constant cleaning ritual.

- Why higher end?

Spending an extra $300-400 on a better model will be worth it in the end. You don't need to drop $5000 on an oven but having a $2000 budget at Coast Appliances will get you a really nice stove.

I highly recommend getting an Electrolux. I have one and love it even after switching from gas for the past 10 years. Its got a solid well built feel and has a really classy look and generally just better built and designed.

[codetrap]

Benyl,

Damn. I didn't know about that. I upgraded my bathroom ceiling fans with quieter models that pull 100CFM each, and I didn't interlock them with the furnace motor. House was built in 2002, and it doesn't come with that feature.

I did have a look at Home Depot's website, and it appears that there is a fairly good selection of hoods that are sub 300CFM, and wouldn't require an interlock.

Also, that portion that you're quoting appears to be a proposed change, not actually implemented, and reads to me that you don't need makeup air if you're under 300CFM.

Make sense?

[bjstare]

Originally posted by bignerd
Induction (I think those are the glass tops?) require a lot of special care, special cleaners etc... everyone I know that has bought one regrets it after.

Induction stoves have a glass top, but are in no way similar. There is actually no cleaning involved because you can put a towel over the whole top and cook through it (thats what my wife/mom do). It's awesome really.

[ZenOps]

Induction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLwaPP9cxT4

Dun dun duhhh.

I just got a standalone 1500 watter to test (about $80) before making the plunge on a big unit.

But now that I think about it - I don't bake much... Why do I need the other part?

[masoncgy]

One other item to consider... get one with a hidden bake element so that it's super easy to clean.

I second the notion of an Electrolux range too... their line of slide-ins are sharp looking units and can be obtained for a very reasonable price with all of the 'nice-to-haves' you need.

If you're baller, it's Wolf, all the way.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by masoncgy


If you're baller, it's Miele, all the way.
:poosie:

[89coupe]

This is the unit I purchased for my new place. Pffff, gas...LOL

http://www.kitchenaid.com/flash.cmd?/#/product/KICU568SBL/

[sputnik]

Originally posted by cjblair


Induction stoves have a glass top, but are in no way similar. There is actually no cleaning involved because you can put a towel over the whole top and cook through it (thats what my wife/mom do). It's awesome really.

Uh really?

Sounds like a fire hazard to me.

Just because the glass cooktop doesn't get hot doesn't mean that the pot doesn't get hot.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by sputnik


Uh really?

Sounds like a fire hazard to me.

Just because the glass cooktop doesn't get hot doesn't mean that the pot doesn't get hot.

Did you watch this?

yWxr3m2Au2s

[benyl]

Originally posted by 89coupe


Did you watch this?

yWxr3m2Au2s

This video has pretty much convinced me to go induction. haha

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by benyl


This video has pretty much convinced me to go induction. haha


Careful only specific cookwear works well with induction...

I've gone gas and never looked back...

I've never owned an induction stove, but I've owned everything else, and I would never ever go back...

Heat control is unmatched, its not an off/on element and I do believe gas is significantly cheaper to run.

I love it, easier to clean than convetional elements or flat tops (perhaps even induction)

Way higher temps for the quick & proper stir frys, and more than gentle to work perfect for the long stovetop braises.

I use everything on it... all clad pots, cast iron pans, annodized aluminum sauce pans, Staub/Le Creuset braising pots..

Fire is the only way, long live the flame

[89coupe]

Originally posted by r3ccOs



Careful only specific cookwear works well with induction...

I've gone gas and never looked back...

I've never owned an induction stove, but I've owned everything else, and I would never ever go back...

Heat control is unmatched, its not an off/on element and I do believe gas is significantly cheaper to run.

I love it, easier to clean than convetional elements or flat tops (perhaps even induction)

Way higher temps for the quick & proper stir frys, and more than gentle to work perfect for the long stovetop braises.

I use everything on it... all clad pots, cast iron pans, annodized aluminum sauce pans, Staub/Le Creuset braising pots..

Fire is the only way, long live the flame

Induction has way better heat control then gas. I guess you missed this video as well.

BUU1szZePgw

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by 89coupe


Induction has way better heat control then gas. I guess you missed this video as well.

BUU1szZePgw

Before judging, I guess I would have to try it myself... thing is, I use a variety of cookwear and the differences in heat will probably vary on material types moreso than gas or even electric no?

Would aluminium react different than clad copper, or cast iron? Is it going to be a purely "feel" method to cooking (which is the proper way) but still?

[masoncgy]

I've seen a Wolf gas cooktop on it's lowest simmer... melting chocolate chips on a paper plate without the chips losing their shape...

...until I see an induction top do the same, I'm still convinced gas is better.

Electric 'true convection' ovens, on the other hand, yield better results than gas.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by masoncgy
I've seen a Wolf gas cooktop on it's lowest simmer... melting chocolate chips on a paper plate without the chips losing their shape...



whaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt?

[89coupe]

Originally posted by masoncgy
I've seen a Wolf gas cooktop on it's lowest simmer... melting chocolate chips on a paper plate without the chips losing their shape...

...until I see an induction top do the same, I'm still convinced gas is better.

Electric 'true convection' ovens, on the other hand, yield better results than gas.

I can do that in my microwave...LOL

[bignerd]

Originally posted by cjblair


Induction stoves have a glass top, but are in no way similar. There is actually no cleaning involved because you can put a towel over the whole top and cook through it (thats what my wife/mom do). It's awesome really.

Yep think you are right, I am thinking of glass top electric stove (burners look like giant red spotlights when they get hot). My mom doesn't like it because you have to be careful and not slide pots across it or you can scratch the glass, there are special cleaners you are supposed to use... I know someone else who thought it was cool enough to wipe off and melted part of a sponge onto it that never came off again etc etc.

I think my mom has GE Monogram appliances and she has nothing but problems with both the electric glass cook top and the in-wall oven. She had the same part replaced in the oven 3 or 4 times.

[dr_jared88]

After reading this thread I became really interested in induction and the more I read, the more I became convinced.

Well simply put I went out and bought a new range (Convection oven with induction cooktop) and all I can say is wow! Keep in mind I upgraded from a very old coil top so even the worst new stove out there would be an upgrade, but induction is incredible.

The control I have, how fast water boils and how easy it is to clean up in awesome! The worst part is making sure you have compatible cookware. It's easy to tell though, if a magnet sticks to the bottom of your pot you're good to go.

As far as price goes, I didn't pay anymore for a good oven that isn't induction. If anything, I paid less.

[autosm]

Originally posted by benyl


You better look into all aspects.

Even in the new house I am building, the cost of gas is more than just the stove.

You need a new hood fan. That hood fan will likely need to be hooked up to your furnace in order to make up the air being drawn out by the new hood fan.

It will probably cost you $2-$3K over the price of the stove if you do it right with all the permits.

I would get a permit for insurances purposes.



And to add you can't get a homeowner permit to do gas work so if you want it inspected & insurance approved you have to hire a gas fitter....unless you are one.

It is not always allowed to pull a feed off another appliance as each requires specific amount of gas supply.

Don’t know if you have to upgrade hood fans on an permit when going with a gas stove?

I think you would be crazy to heat a house with a gas stove during a power failure good way to get CO poisoned.

The cost of the gas work was enough for me to say forget it.....

[CHICHARITZHI]

If u have hyper active child then go for electric stove , think safety first.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by CHICHARITZHI
If u have hyper active child then go for electric stove , think safety first. Are you talking about convection? Standard electric stoves are probably MORE dangerous to kids than gas.

[dr_jared88]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Are you talking about convection? Standard electric stoves are probably MORE dangerous to kids than gas.

Are you talking about induction? If a child is stuck in a convection oven that would be even more dangerous then any type of burner. Haha sorry, couldn't resist.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by dr_jared88


Are you talking about induction? If a child is stuck in a convection oven that would be even more dangerous then any type of burner. Haha sorry, couldn't resist.
I am the captain of the failboat. :thumbsdow

[CHICHARITZHI]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Are you talking about convection? Standard electric stoves are probably MORE dangerous to kids than gas. ]

wild kids can reach the knob and play with it , that's my point.

[masoncgy]

^ What if you have a slide-in electric range? Hmm? Dials are right at the front, just like a gas range.

Maybe watch yer kids instead. ;)