Israel

[derpderp]

So I was thinking about the ME, although I know all about the history of Israel and its contemporary political situation, one thing occurred to me.

Don't you think it is a bit hypocritical for North Americans to complain about the Israelis conquering/occupation of Palestine? :dunno:

Why do so many Canadians not realize that the entire story of NA is practically the same as Israel.

[BigMass]

not even remotely comparable. You can’t read 10 minutes of Wikipedia and pretend to know and understand the hundreds of years of history that leads to certain current events.

[derpderp]

I'm not so much commenting on the religious history related to the situation.

More the one where a group of people take over anther group of people tell them to bad. Canadians have a pretty fucked up history despite all the denial over it, ok maybe it wasn't a nation state we took over, but we still conquered anther group of people, but you can't just say "oh boo-hoo we won" then at the same time critique others for the same shit.

[CUG]

There was nobility in raping and pillaging the natives, there's none in raping and pillaging arab regions. Massive amounts of political double standards exist in people's minds. To think you'll ever expose it to them enough times to get them to see reality, is ridiculous.

[derpderp]

History is written by the victors.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by derpderp
I'm not so much commenting on the religious history related to the situation.

More the one where a group of people take over anther group of people tell them to bad. Canadians have a pretty fucked up history despite all the denial over it, ok maybe it wasn't a nation state we took over, but we still conquered anther group of people, but you can't just say "oh boo-hoo we won" then at the same time critique others for the same shit.

It’s just not the same. It’s apples and oranges. And that doesn’t mean one is right and one is wrong. It means the circumstances surrounding the events and the era the events occurred in play a huge factor. Nowadays we no longer accept nations running policies of genocide against another group/race of people.

To your original question. It’s absolutely not in the slightest bit hypocritical for North Americans to citizens the current actions of Israel. If anything it’s a duty for people to be outraged at what is going on.


Originally posted by derpderp
History is written by the victors.
always

[Toma]

Yeah, no shit... we have social evolution...

We can't beat our wives anymore either.

Fuck, last bitch that pissed me off, I had to book us a 'vacation' to Poland! :poosie:

[derpderp]

Ok I agree, no way was I implying that people don't have the right to stand up for what they believe in. I do think you have a point that times were different.

Still wars of conquering and political manipulation still occur all around the world though, sure colonization doesn't happen anymore, just invading and flipping the political systems so they work with yours, sending diplomats with guns to make sure you get what you want and back room shady deals and this isn't only the USA.

It just seems like is all of Palestine became Israel, the situation calmed down, a few generations passed you would just end up with Canada junior, "oh sorry about that mr.arab, here have some free money, but nah we are not leaving, where would we go anyway?"

[DayGlow]

When will the Normans made reprimands to the Saxons, or the Romans to Europe, or the Ottmans.....?

[derpderp]

Originally posted by DayGlow
When will the Normans made reprimands to the Saxons, or the Romans to Europe, or the Ottmans.....?

LOL

Don't forget the Norse.

[derpderp]

But I just wanted to say I am not trying to be an agitator here. It was just a passing thought.

Maybe "all about" was poor wording but I have read more then just online and have a pretty general idea of all the different conflicts, boarder expansions, political fighting on both sides, still can't really figure out who exactly I support in the end.

I never understood why places like Turkey have the worlds highest sales of the book Mein Kampf though, it is actually pretty humorous and not because Hitler saw white as the master race but because Hitler himself entertained the idea of creating the state of Israel, but decided it wasn't worth risking ships through the English channel just to deport Jews.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by derpderp
So I was thinking about the ME, although I know all about the history of Israel and its contemporary political situation, one thing occurred to me.

Don't you think it is a bit hypocritical for North Americans to complain about the Israelis conquering/occupation of Palestine? :dunno:

Why do so many Canadians not realize that the entire story of NA is practically the same as Israel.

While much of what the Israelis are doing is similar to previous examples of colonialism, caution should be exercised in how tight one draws the parallel.

I'm sure a book could be written on both the similarities and differences to British colonialism in NA.

As a Pro-Palestinian Canadian, the irony of my position is not lost on me. I'm not about to pack up and move back to the old country, either. The most significant difference is that the active ethnic cleansing of the natives is over, whereas the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians is still in progress.

[st184]

+1 to what CUG was saying. Grats on thinking out of the box derp, its a skill most people are completely void of.

[CUG]

Originally posted by st184
+1 to what CUG was saying. Grats on thinking out of the box derp, its a skill most people are completely void of. Well, on the flip side, where are we all supposed to live when we give everyone their land back? In order for the muslim and christian community to be satisfied, the holy lands will have to change hands 100 times, we'll all have to move, then the natives will have to move because they pillaged it from some indigenous Russian variant of homo-erectus.

[polarice]

Originally posted by derpderp
So I was thinking about the ME, although I know all about the history of Israel and its contemporary political situation, one thing occurred to me.

Don't you think it is a bit hypocritical for North Americans to complain about the Israelis conquering/occupation of Palestine? :dunno:

Why do so many Canadians not realize that the entire story of NA is practically the same as Israel.

Last time I checked Canada and the USA have overwhelming support for Israel. I don't hear about average people complaining about Israel as most people see it as a global good deed after WW2-- this is likely where their thought process stops.

Personally, I don't think Israel should exist. I cannot stand that Harper won't condemn their actions. A little ironic that Israel doesn't want to give Palestinians citizenship because they want a Jewish state. I think the Western discourse surrounding Islamic states is more hypocritical when the West tends support Israel and the Jewish state so much.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by polarice



Personally, I don't think Israel should exist.

It takes balls to say that, given that Israel's "right to exist" is often treated as an unquestionable, axiomatic assumption.

[JimmyBurner]

Originally posted by LollerBrader


It takes balls to say that, given that Israel's "right to exist" is often treated as an unquestionable, axiomatic assumption.

It doesn't take balls, it takes a brain. I don't think Israel should've EVER existed, and if it was mandatory that they did, it should've been in some remote shithole on earth, that nobody would pay any attention to or care about.

The one thing that everyone should atleast recognize, if not agree upon, is exactly what CUG'S racist ass said: lands would have to change hands a million times over to please everyone. It's the way the world works, the stronger powers overcome the weaker powers and land changes hands.

The primary, and grotesque, difference is that just because a bunch of Brits and people from the Allies felt sorry for the jews, they played god and essentially allocated an entire strip of land to them in PALESTINE. Not Israel, PALESTINE. They had a huge number of refugee jews on their hands, and no place to put them, so they threw them there because they knew Palestine couldn't retaliate and the rest of the cowardly arab countries like Saudi Arabia and the UAE wouldn't do shit.

What people fail to realize is the original treaties and agreements granted the jews 10-25% of the land they control now. As they progressed and got more powerful, with the aid of the US, they started fucking Palestine over. Just like dirty cockroaches who live in a corner of your house, they multiplied and started consuming more and more area.

In the end it's pretty useless talking about the issue, jews control the media, the economy, and arguably the world. It's funny how a palestinian suicide bomber that kills 2 and injures 6 will be plastered all over the news, Hamas condemned, diplomatic ties broken, etc, but when an Israeli missile brings down an apartment building and kills 124 civilians and injures a trillion, all you may hear about is a press release from Israel about a successful military operation that killed "a top Hamas leader". I see that fucking nonsense so much, 200 civilians killed, but it's okay guys, everyone shut the fuck up because we got a "top Hamas terrorist". How many "top Hamas terrorists" are fucking still alive then?

At the end of the day, Israeli murder, extortion, rape, war crimes, etc, have all been proven fully and accurately, but nobodies going to do shit about it. If one massacre in Palestine happened in the US, I'm pretty sure someone would get nuked, and it would be the end of the world.

[calgary403]

Originally posted by JimmyBurner


Just like dirty cockroaches who live in a corner of your house, they multiplied and started consuming more and more area.



You mad bro?

:rofl:

For the record I called it in a previous thread.

Jimmyburner = Some 15 year old NE leb kid who thinks he runs the show.

:rofl: :rofl:

[JimmyBurner]

Originally posted by calgary403


You mad bro?

:rofl:

For the record I called it in a previous thread.

Jimmyburner = Some 15 year old NE leb kid who thinks he runs the show.

:rofl: :rofl:

Why the fuck do you keep talking to me?

For the record, calgary403 pm'd me like a little bitch asking me why I called him a punk in the "Im so sick of the ne" thread. He cried about us never having any conflicts and I edited my post so he would stop crying and helped him believe that we would be e-bro's for lizzife.

Get off my nuts.

[rusich]

Originally posted by calgary403


You mad bro?

:rofl:

For the record I called it in a previous thread.

Jimmyburner = Some 15 year old NE leb kid who thinks he runs the show.

:rofl: :rofl:

He will grow up and have at least 3 kids (probably more) whereas you may have one or maybe two at best (average white family in Canada). They will dictate the future.

[calgary403]

Edit: I'm not going to argue online with a loser like scuderia.


If a mod wants to post up the pm's feel free.

Scuderia good luck with that 98 civic you got going on. :poosie:

[JimmyBurner]

Originally posted by calgary403


Haha jimmyburner = scuderia. You were banned once already fool can't you take a hint?

For the record what happened was Scuderia called me a punk in a thread I never even talked to him in. I pm'd asking him what his problem was and he edited it out.

Btw Did you ever sell that super sleek 98 civic you had for sale?

:poosie:

Nice edit. Why don't you just say what your post originally said? Pussy.
Were those your exact words? You said "Hey what's your problem"? OR was it more like "Hey, why did you call me a punk man, we don't have any conflicts do we"?

I'd love for a mod to check those pms and post what was really said, to see who's the bitch. You sure are posting pretty recklessly huh? I guess once you hit 100 posts your dick grows an inch, doubling in size in calgary403's case. I remember when you first started posting, agreeing with everybody, sucking "OG" dick, basically being the bitch in you.

Keep making your little ninja edits, but don't watch me, watch tv.

[Toma]

Originally posted by rusich


He will grow up and have at least 3 kids (probably more) whereas you may have one or maybe two at best (average white family in Canada). They will dictate the future.

I think in Canada, the drive for career, credit spending, the big screen tv and 2 suv's has reduced that to 1.4 kids

[derpderp]

Jimmy you have a very special skill, the skill to manage to fuck up practically every thread you post in, they always just turn into a cluster fuck of e-tough and people trolling you because you always fly off the handle when someone says some shit to you.

[Toma]

Originally posted by derpderp
Jimmy you have a very special skill, the skill to manage to fuck up practically every thread you post in, they always just turn into a cluster fuck of e-tough and people trolling you because you always fly off the handle when someone says some shit to you.

perhaps... but on occasion, within his posts, may lie a few stitches of truth...

[Godfuader]

Surprise, surprise...US is back on its knees for the mighty Benny Yahoo. Israel acts like a bitch...US offers $3Billion dollar pacifier...at the end proves that the desire for humanity is not greater than their personal agenda. :clap:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101207/ts_nm/us_palestinians_israel_talks

[Feruk]

After meeting an Israeli travelling last year, I had a realization. If every Israeli is like this guy was, then they must be the scum of the Earth. He thought he deserved everything, had 0 respect for women, made fun of disabled people to their faces, and was one of the biggest racists I've ever met. Giving them a country, especially in the middle of Arab territory where they're constantly under threat, was one of the UN's biggest foul ups.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Feruk
After meeting an Israeli travelling last year, I had a realization. If every Israeli is like this guy was, then they must be the scum of the Earth. He thought he deserved everything, had 0 respect for women, made fun of disabled people to their faces, and was one of the biggest racists I've ever met. Giving them a country, especially in the middle of Arab territory where they're constantly under threat, was one of the UN's biggest foul ups.

Has nothing to do with the UN.... The deal was made long before them

[polarice]

Originally posted by Toma


Has nothing to do with the UN.... The deal was made long before them

Can you elaborate on your claim?

[Toma]

Originally posted by polarice


Can you elaborate on your claim?

Well not really a claim. If you are interested in the history of the region, then study it.

The UN was not formed till 1945.

Back in the early 1900's, England was the world super power, and issued the Balfour Dcalration in 1917...

That is one example, though there are more, the French were involved etc.


Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

[polarice]

Originally posted by Toma


Well not really a claim. If you are interested in the history of the region, then study it.

The UN was not formed till 1945.

Back in the early 1900's, England was the world super power, and issued the Balfour Dcalration in 1917...

That is one example, though there are more, the French were involved etc.



Actually, I am which is why I asked. As my middle eastern politics class presented Israel differently.

Most people conflate the League of Nations with the UN, and they issued the mandate to Britain after ww1.

Wiki says:
"In the face of increasing violence after World War II, the British handed the issue over to the United Nations. The result was Resolution 181, a partition plan to divide Palestine between Jews and Arabs" and then Israel was born a independent state through partitions drawn by the UN.

I hate using wiki as a source but I am lazy.

Or are you just saying there were independent mandates before that occurred before the UN designation, thus not making them solely responsible for Israel?

[CUG]

Originally posted by polarice


Actually, I am which is why I asked. As my middle eastern politics class presented Israel differently.
I'd wager that you have more education on the issue than everyone else in the thread.

[polarice]

Originally posted by CUG
I'd wager that you have more education on the issue than everyone else in the thread.

I can't tell if that is sarcasm.

[Toma]

True Israel did not officially become recognized until 1948, that part is true... the the foundations, groundwork, Zionist terror plots and expulsion of Palestinians occured well in advance, and of course Jewish immigration to the area REALLY picked up steam around the turn of the last century.

By that time Israel was recognized as a nation, well it was more symbolic than anything.

I think around 1895, most sources estimate there were 450 to 600 thousand Arabs in Palestine, and a "negligible Jewish Population"....

Right around that time is when things got started imo....

But the history of that time is shady as shit.... think today's corruption and scandals, without wikileaks or the internet lol.