PDA

View Full Version : Toyota's feeling the heat.



heavyD
12-06-2010, 01:46 PM
This is good news for fans of Toyota in that maybe they are coming to the realization that you just can't continue to turn your vehicles into faceless appliances that sell on reputation alone.

Link:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101205/BUSINESS01/12050482/1318/Mighty-Toyota-is-slipping-under-weight-of-recalls-sales-decline&template=fullarticle


Mighty Toyota is slipping under weight of recalls, sales decline
By GREG GARDNER
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER

Comments (447) Recommend (12) Print E-mail Letter to the editor Share Facebook Twitter FarkIt Digg Del.icio.us Reddit Newsvine Buzz up!
Toyota is in trouble. The Japanese automaker is playing defense as sales slump, dealer inventories swell -- even for the Camry and Prius -- and consumers demand larger discounts to remain loyal to the brand once viewed as unstoppable.



More than 11 million recalls worldwide over the past year are taking their toll on Toyota. And they aren't over. Last week, Toyota recalled 650,000 Priuses to fix cooling pumps. Toyota dealers also are fixing weld nuts on accelerator pedals of previously recalled Camrys and Avalons.

Now, Toyota's U.S. sales are suffering -- even though it remains the most popular retail brand at the moment. While industry sales rose 17% last month, Toyota sales fell 3.3%.

Toyota's decline comes despite a large increase in cash-back rebates and other deals. In November, Toyota spent an average of $2,602 per car on incentives, 37% more than a year ago, Autodata estimates. But its car sales still fell 18%.

Toyota acknowledges its challenges. In addition to quality woes, it must overcome a reputation for bland styling.

"We noticed a sharp decline in our ability to attract new owners throughout this year," Bob Carter, head of the Toyota division, said this week.

Toyota spokesman Mike Michels also noted Friday that "a couple of our core products," such as the Camry, Corolla and RAV4, are "at the middle or end" of their life and will be updated soon.

Meanwhile, rivals -- especially Ford, Honda and Hyundai -- are snapping up Toyota drivers.

"Ford is without a doubt a big competitor, second only to Honda," said Southfield Toyota dealer Bob Page.

Toyota struggles as competition intensifies and lineup ages
Toyota dealer Bob Page is wistful about the days when Camrys, Corollas and Priuses would practically sell themselves, but he knows they're probably gone forever.

Today he assumes everyone coming into his Southfield showroom is considering at least one competing vehicle. Oftentimes, that's a Honda or a Ford.

"A lot of it is because they weren't part of the government bailout," Page said. "I hear a lot of comments about that."

Toyota retail sales -- dealers to consumers that exclude fleet bulk sales to businesses and government -- still lead the U.S. industry, but the air of invincibility is gone.

Rebates, discounted leases and free maintenance have retained many of Toyota's loyal customers. But the improved offerings from domestic, Asian and European automakers have raised the competitive bar to a level that Toyota hasn't seen.

"There's no question that people are looking for highly styled vehicles, and Toyota is probably a little behind the curve on that," said Ed Tonkin, a multi-franchise dealer who owns a Toyota showroom in Portland, Ore. "The Hyundai Sonata has been a real in-your-face example of how the competition is better."

While Toyota's troubles can be traced to a variety of sources -- recalls, design, market trends -- many stem simply from its aging product line, Mike Michels, Toyota spokesman, told the Free Press on Friday.

An all-new Camry will be introduced next summer. Prius, which Toyota is launching as its own brand, will introduce a new plug-in hybrid and an all-new gas-electric car.

"Fresh product always gives you a chance to spur the momentum," Michels said.

But some dealers say Toyota's troubles are broader than that.

"Ford's product line is starting to kill Toyota. Their product is old," one dealer who didn't want to be named told the Free Press. "People are only buying Toyota if they get a deal now, because there's a perception it's not the thing to buy anymore. The truth of the matter is that they've got themselves in a pickle."

Toyota tries to improve its buzz
Fighting off image problems following its massive recalls are among the biggest challenges Toyota faces.

Toyota division chief Bob Carter said earlier this week that the automaker struggled to attract new customers in the first half of the year, but 57% of sales are coming from customers who are trading in a rival model.

That doesn't measure people who would have purchased a Toyota but are now looking at other choices.

YouGov BrandIndex conducts a daily survey of consumers planning to buy a car in the next six months. It asks whether what they've heard about every brand in the last two weeks is positive or negative. They call this a "buzz score."

Toyota's buzz score finally surged into positive territory in June as the recall news media coverage subsided. But it turned negative again in July and August. It has recovered since early September but remains less positive than the corresponding buzz score of other Asian and European car brands.

Another challenge for Toyota, though, is a market shift. Americans are moving back to pickups, SUVs and crossovers as gas prices have moderated near or below $3 a gallon. Toyota has always been stronger in passenger cars.

Inventory management an issue
In the past, Toyota was noted for producing only slightly more of any model than it knew it could sell. Inventories of its models, as measured in days' supply, were often half the size of competitors.

Small inventories reduce dealers' costs and minimize the need for expensive incentives.

But at the end of October, stocks of the Prius hybrid approached 90 days' supply. Camry, America's best-selling car since 2002, stood at 75 days'. Camry sales tumbled 24% last month.

This reflects "both the lingering effects of the recalls and a market that slowed a lot more in the summer and early fall than anyone expected," said Rebecca Lindland, an industry analyst with IHS Automotive in Lexington, Mass.

That leaves two options: Boost incentives even more or reduce production at assembly plants. A year from now, Toyota plans to begin production at a plant near Tupelo, Miss., that has sat empty since 2008. That plan assumes industry sales continue to rebound.

For now, Toyota has been choosing incentives. For the year, Toyota incentives are up 29.9% for the year, to $2,019 per vehicle on average, according to estimates from Autodata. Automakers don't provide incentive numbers publicly.

Such tactics can help win sales races, but they don't help profit margins.

Still profitable
Throughout its recall crisis, Toyota has continued to be profitable. Earnings for the quarter ended Sept. 30 quadrupled to more than $1.2 billion, and about $447 million of that came from North America.

But there are changes in where Toyota is making its money. North America is no longer Toyota's most profitable region, a distinction that belongs to Asia, not including Japan.

It could take Toyota years to regain it former dominance.

Contact Greg Gardner: 313-222-8762 or [email protected]

roopi
12-06-2010, 01:52 PM
It's about time. I hate going into Toyota dealerships. It's impossible to deal with the salespeople. They pretty much look at you and say take it or leave it.

I attempted to buy a 2011 4-Runner last weekend and the salesperson didn't want to search for a white one since it wasn't on his lot. Then he wouldn't even lookup the finance rates without causing a big stink. He wanted me to commit to buying one before searching to see if a white one was available.

Hopefully sales keep sliding so the salespeople will actually make an attempt to provide a little customer service.

Still want to buy a 4-Runner but I've went to 2 different locations in town and I get the same treatment.

A790
12-06-2010, 01:57 PM
The FT-86 is the only exciting product that Toyota has in their lineup (and, even then, until it's officially released it's a "maybe"). Their vehicles are bland, and now that the competition is stepping up their efforts in order to secure market share, Toyota is shedding what it worked so hard for.

Look at what Hyundai, Kia, Ford, and even Chevrolet are doing. They're responding to what the market wants to see more of. Where's Toyota with that?

ercchry
12-06-2010, 02:13 PM
toyota cars=boring but their trucks are still pretty badass

Xtrema
12-06-2010, 06:15 PM
http://www.toyota.com/safety/star-safety-system/

Let's brand a bunch of system that everyone already have and make it sound safe.

Can't wait for Toyotards start boasting about their "STAR" Safety System.

Toyota = Fail

max_boost
12-06-2010, 06:48 PM
Toyota's are boring as hell. There isn't one vehicle in their lineup that I have wanted to buy. Their truck line is cool but I'm not into trucks. I've contemplated the FJ but that's about it lol

Once upon a time I vowed to never buy Ford but their lineup of cars is actually good and the techno gadgets they have are really cool.

Graham_A_M
12-06-2010, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by ercchry
toyota cars=boring but their trucks are still pretty badass
Meh, I'd take a Ford or GM truck any day over a Toyota, but thats just me. :dunno: I guess its the 1 million KM+ F250 my bro has, and my 920k S10 that take credit for that.

Yeah my older bro is a fan of the new Tundra, he drives a Corolla, and even he admits that Toyota is boring as it could possibly get.

Toyota's havn't interested me since the late 90's. Now its just BRUTAL since they ditched the Celica even.
But its not easy being #1, just ask GM. ;)

heavyD
12-06-2010, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Xtrema
http://www.toyota.com/safety/star-safety-system/

Let's brand a bunch of system that everyone already have and make it sound safe.

Can't wait for Toyotards start boasting about their "STAR" Safety System.

Toyota = Fail

Toyota has been playing the 'safety' card ever since their accelerator fiasco. Lots of cars have all those safety measures.

BerserkerCatSplat
12-06-2010, 10:04 PM
The last interesting thing Toyota ever did was get thrown out of Group A rally for cheating. It's been downhill since then.

blitz
12-06-2010, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Xtrema
http://www.toyota.com/safety/star-safety-system/

Let's brand a bunch of system that everyone already have and make it sound safe.

Can't wait for Toyotards start boasting about their "STAR" Safety System.

Toyota = Fail

There is a difference in that they're making it standard on All models. Traction and Stability control are not generally found on economy cars.

revelations
12-06-2010, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by heavyD


Toyota has been playing the 'safety' card ever since their accelerator fiasco. Lots of cars have all those safety measures.

Dont forget those football helmets that apparently toyota helped make "safer".

Redlyne_mr2
12-07-2010, 12:27 AM
Ya Toyota trucks are awesome, thats about it.

Jlude
12-07-2010, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by A790
The FT-86 is the only exciting product that Toyota has in their lineup (and, even then, until it's officially released it's a "maybe"). Their vehicles are bland, and now that the competition is stepping up their efforts in order to secure market share, Toyota is shedding what it worked so hard for.

Look at what Hyundai, Kia, Ford, and even Chevrolet are doing. They're responding to what the market wants to see more of. Where's Toyota with that?



Originally posted by max_boost
Toyota's are boring as hell. There isn't one vehicle in their lineup that I have wanted to buy. Their truck line is cool but I'm not into trucks. I've contemplated the FJ but that's about it lol

Once upon a time I vowed to never buy Ford but their lineup of cars is actually good and the techno gadgets they have are really cool.


Lots of cars in Ford's lineup that I wouldn't mine having as a DD over anything Toyota makes.

Cooked Rice
12-07-2010, 01:07 AM
:werd:

Even with their trucks unfortunately, many guys were quite upset about the changes from the 4th gen T4R to the new 5th gens.

jjmac
12-07-2010, 09:44 AM
So it might be a good time to buy a Toyota and get a deal :D ?

Kloubek
12-07-2010, 09:46 AM
You guys seen the "new" 2012 Camary renderings? It looks like a GM product from 5 years ago! Even the current model looks better.

Xtrema
12-07-2010, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by blitz


There is a difference in that they're making it standard on All models. Traction and Stability control are not generally found on economy cars.

But it is required by law on ALL vehicles starting in 2011.

So I won't call Toyota a leader here. They are just complying to laws and spinning it as something special.

heavyD
12-07-2010, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Xtrema


But it is required by law on ALL vehicles starting in 2011.

So I won't call Toyota a leader here. They are just complying to laws and spinning it as something special.

Older uninformed buyers will eat it up hook, line, and sinker. When I used to frequent Charlesglen Toyota picking up parts for my MR2 one thing I noticed was the sheer amount of senior citizens at the dealership. Much more than I have ever seen at any dealership ever. It was akin to North Hill Mall compared to other large malls in this city.

treg50
12-07-2010, 10:29 AM
Good, to see to people waking up. Just becaue it's Japanese doesn't mean it's great (I've been saying the same about the German big brands for years). Toyota was pretty good but over-rated. Their poor quality issues earns them a beating. Their 'Green' facade is sooo f'ing fake I want to take a dump on their faces (ie. We so green!! Because we make the Prius!.... oh but wait we also make Toyota heavy guzzlers: the Sequoia, Tundra, Lexus LX, etc.; Hybrid's or not they're not as 'green' as you think).

Bring back Pon-ti-ac!
Bring back Pon-ti-ac! :burnout:

94boosted
12-07-2010, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by A790
Look at what Hyundai, Kia, Ford, and even Chevrolet are doing. They're responding to what the market wants to see more of. Where's Toyota with that?

:werd:

Does anybody under the age of 35 even buy a new Toyota car (not truck) any more?

clem24
12-07-2010, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Kloubek
You guys seen the "new" 2012 Camary renderings? It looks like a GM product from 5 years ago! Even the current model looks better.

Umm that's just a rendering by either journalists that are trying to sell mags or by some bored geeks on the internet. Ever go back to your old car mags to check "artists renderings" of what a future model might look like? Unless it was caught in a spy picture or leaked, they almost NEVER looked anything like what is actually released. I've got a ton of car mags from the late 80's early 90's and they're actually quite interesting and funny.

Back on topic though, Toyota is still making bags of money and still selling a ton of cars and they always will irregardless of what a bunch of fanboi's on a forum have to say. Our population is getting older and these boring cars are what they crave.

heavyD
12-07-2010, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by clem24

Back on topic though, Toyota is still making bags of money and still selling a ton of cars and they always will irregardless of what a bunch of fanboi's on a forum have to say. Our population is getting older and these boring cars are what they crave.

Naw there done.

clem24
12-08-2010, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by heavyD


Naw there done.

LOL I dunno man with declining sales, no bailout money, and STILL turning a profit AND selling quantities of cars many manufacturers can only dream of? Yeah I think they'll be just fine when the new Camry hits stores. Sure boring to drive but then again so is the Hyundai Sonata. As nice as the Sonata is, the Camry is still functionally better and if you drove one back, it'd be a toss up.

I am not a Toyota fanboi. I used to be. But just putting it into a global perspective, I think Toyota is doing just fine. Mind you, even things from Chrysler (and I *hate* Chrysler the most) seem to be getting better. The new Cherokee that rides on the M class platform (correct me if I am wrong) seems like a better choice than the 4Runner. I never thought I'd say this but the new Cherokee actually looks better inside and out than the 4Runner. Although most everything else about Chrysler licks balls, like the "new" 200. But my point is, yeah Toyota does need to pick up their game, but they're not going down anytime soon.

Xtrema
12-08-2010, 05:17 PM
Toyota is profitable but losing market share.

Which isn't a bad place to be but not great either when everyone else is gaining share.

911fever
12-18-2010, 12:05 PM
Toyota is just like domestics were to Japanese in the mid 90's. They are falling behind fast to their competition who have better designs, more innovative gadgets and better warranties, better interiors, and honestly, a better image that isn't marred by recalls.

Cos
12-18-2010, 12:19 PM
Toyota had to WORK to lose my business. I worked at Heninger. My grandfather was partsman at Heninger for 25 years. My dad has had Toyotas his whole life (minus one 70's civic and a Datsun 510). Toyota was always a car company for me to buy from.

When I could afford my first new car. I walked into more than one Toyota dealer wanting a sporty car, guy offered me a Camry or a Solara. After I got rid of my Mitsu Lancer and wanted a truck I would have gotten a Tacoma or a 4Runner. Taco was way too much money for no frills (No touch screen, no bluetooth, no auto temp, no heated seats, no leather, no nice interior) and all that for 38,000. The 4runner was the new gen. I wanted the older gen which could actually go off road.


So I went and got my F150. If toyota gets their shit together I would consider it. Gone are the days of my 1982 Celica or 1991 Camry.

Kloubek
12-18-2010, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by clem24


Umm that's just a rendering by either journalists that are trying to sell mags or by some bored geeks on the internet.

I know what you're saying, but no - these were legit renderings. I managed to find a pic of the actual thing:

http://www.crystalsealed.com/images/1194020653/1195193915.gif

:zzz:

01RedDX
12-18-2010, 12:25 PM
.

Xtrema
12-18-2010, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Kloubek


I know what you're saying, but no - these were legit renderings. I managed to find a pic of the actual thing:

:zzz:

U sure that's the new Camry but not the Chinese version of Camry?

http://indianautosblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/2009_toyota_camry_india_facelift-1.jpg

Either way, snooze.

heavyD
12-21-2010, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by 01RedDX
Declining market share in NA means exactly fuck all to a company like Toyota. They are truly "too big to fail."

They won't fold and close shop but saying declining sales means fuck all is ridiculous. They are hurting and are one more accelerator-like slip up from life support. GM was bigger and failed and Toyota is heading down the same road.

TorqueDog
12-21-2010, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by Kloubek
I know what you're saying, but no - these were legit renderings. I managed to find a pic of the actual thing:

[picture]

:zzz: Rental fleets everywhere are rejoicing.

Zephyr
12-21-2010, 10:43 AM
Here at my office people are switching over to the Prius, not because it's a "green" car, mainly because of the awesome deals lately... Kinda sad to see a company that brought such nice cars such as the Celica all trac, and supra. Now it's bringing all these stupid hybrids and creating a group of people that brag about their MPG.

TorqueDog
12-21-2010, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Zephyr
Here at my office people are switching over to the Prius, not because it's a "green" car, mainly because of the awesome deals lately... Kinda sad to see a company that brought such nice cars such as the Celica all trac, and supra. Now it's bringing all these stupid hybrids and creating a group of people that brag about their MPG. I'm getting quite tired of getting stuck behind 'hyper-milers' in Priuses (Priui?) in traffic as well. While they're pissing about, there's fifty cars and trucks getting between 12 and 22 MPG stuck behind them polluting even more than they normally would because of these jackasses inclined to do 40 KM/H up Shaganappi Trail for an extra .5 MPG.

Kardon
12-21-2010, 02:10 PM
I would have to agree that the new toyotas are not like they used to be, but I do think lexus has been doing fairly well recently (besides the death of the 2j). Also you gotta say the FJ Cruiser is pretty sweet, and how nice would it be if you could pick up a 2010 Hilux diesel? Lexus is also coming out with a new car based off a lengthened FT86 platform so its pretty much a guarantee the FT86 will come out in some markets.

kvg
12-21-2010, 02:52 PM
I have a friend that does auto upholstery and he was telling me this weekend that Toyota has some of the lowest quality materials used out of anyone. Honestly I was shocked. He says he is always repairing interiors in new cars for the dealer he does work for.:dunno:

Kloubek
12-21-2010, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Xtrema
U sure that's the new Camry but not the Chinese version of Camry?

It's possible. I had the impression this was the up and coming new model for NA, but I might be wrong...

msommers
12-22-2010, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by jjmac
So it might be a good time to buy a Toyota and get a deal :D ?

Possibly but when you've spent thousands on a vehicle, a boring vehicle, you have to live with that. Spend your money in better places.

Just because it is "cheap" doesn't mean you should buy it. In fact, if you want Toyota to change their mentality at all, buying a Toyota won't help that one bit.

Anomaly
12-22-2010, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by 01RedDX
Declining market share in NA means exactly fuck all to a company like Toyota. They are truly "too big to fail."

:rofl:

Seriously?

Just like GM, a larger company WORLDWIDE than Toyota, Is too big to fail?

I wonder why, if market share in North America means fuck all to Toyota... why they would operate 15 plants in North America? I don't suppose it would be all those high margin Trucks, and SUVS they sell only in North America?