Canada Needs Its Own Autobahn

[Markham]

I like the idea of a Canadian autobahn, especially no or higher speed limits!

http://www.calgarybeacon.com/2009/12/canada-needs-its-own-autobahn/

Markham

[toastgremlin]

I think it'd be more important just to have a controlled highway system as in the US - entering and exiting the highway is done at safe, highly visible exits, there's no crossing the centre median and high speed traffic is segregated from low speed traffic.

[FraserB]

Canada is the largest high-income nation in the world without a comprehensive national system of freeways or expressways. A report by the Frontier Centre for Public Policy released last year recommended a remedy – an upgraded Halifax-to-Vancouver transcontinental motorway and other key routes. Behind those widely publicized proposals are some compelling findings.

What we propose is a system of roadways that are entirely grade-separated (no cross traffic), with four or more lanes (two or more in each direction) allowing travel that is unimpeded by traffic signals or stop signs.

The economic advantages of motorways

Such motorways have been associated with positive economic and safety impacts. For example, a synthesis of research by the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials (AASHT)) noted the positive impact of the United States motorway system: The Interstate Highway System represented an investment in a new, higher-speed, safer, lower-cost-per-mile technology that fundamentally altered relationships among time, cost and space in a manner which allowed new economic opportunities to emerge that would never have emerged under previous technologies.

In particular, the AASHTO synthesis indicated that motorway investments have lowered production and distribution costs in practically every industry sector.

Equally compelling, it is a well-known fact that motorways are by far the safest roads. It was estimated that 187,000 fatalities had been averted as a result of the transfer of traffic to motorways between 1956 and 1996.

Truckers in Japan, Europe (the EU-15) and the U.S. can travel among practically all major metropolitan areas on high quality motorways. Further, motorway systems have and are being built in developing nations. By far the most impressive is China, which now has approximately 65,000 kilometers of motorway, not including those administered at the municipal level (as in Shanghai and Beijing). Only the U.S. has more, at approximately 85,000 kilometers.

China’s plans call for the U.S. figure to be exceeded within a decade. These roads are being built not only throughout populous eastern and central China, but also to the Pamirs at the Kazakh border and to Lhasa, in Tibet – crossing some of the most desolate and sparsely populated territory in the world. Mexico, a partner with Canada and the U.S. in the North American Free Trade Agreement, also has an extensive motorway system.

Motorways in Canada

Canada, however, is an exception. Only a quarter of metropolitan areas are connected to one another by motorways. Edmonton and Calgary are among the few metropolitan areas in the developed world that are not connected to comprehensive motorway systems. Vancouver is connected to the U.S. system, but not to the rest of Canada.

For many trips between Canadian metropolitan areas, it takes less time to travel through the U.S. on its motorways than on the Canadian roads. This is the case between Winnipeg or Calgary and Toronto, for example. The principal problem is the long, crowded, slow, two-lane stretch of roadway through the northern Great Lakes region between the Manitoba-Ontario border and Sudbury and Parry Sound. Another candidate for upgrading is a long section of roadway in the British Columbia interior that a Calgary talk-show host calls a “stagecoach” trail. Canada pays an economic price for this lack of a world-class highway system, both in manufacturing and tourism.

However, parts of Canada are well-served by motorways. Much of central and eastern Canada is connected by motorways, with routes from Windsor, Ontario, through Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec City to Halifax. Only a short segment of this route isn’t up to motorway standard (the road approaching the New Brunswick border in the province of Quebec).

Yet, the largest Canadian urban areas have world-class freeway systems. Few, if any urban areas in the U.S. or elsewhere in the developed world have more kilometers of motorway or motorway lanes in relation to their urban-area size than do Toronto and Montreal.

A Canadian autobahn

My report under the auspices of the Frontier Centre for Public Policy proposed a world-class highway system for Canada. In the report, entitled A Canadian Autobahn: Creating a World Class Highway System for the Nation, we proposed:

■ Upgrading the entire transcontinental route from Halifax through Toronto to Vancouver to motorway standards. These improvements should be completed within 10 years and would cost about $28 billion, at the currency’s present value.

■ Upgrading other principal routes to at least premotorway standard, which would require “twinning” (doubling to four lanes) and minimizing the number of grade crossings. The longest of these additional highways is the Yellowhead route; Edmonton and Calgary to the Canada-U.S. border; Ottawa to Sudbury; and across the island of Newfoundland. These improvements should be completed within 15 years and would cost about $33.5 billion.

The transcontinental route would provide a long-overdue economic stimulus to urban areas such as Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie. The improved Yellowhead route would provide far better access to the new deepwater superport at Prince Rupert, BC, which is the closest North American port with connections to major Asian markets. This could materially improve Prince Rupert’s competitiveness relative to larger ports on the U.S. West Coast, such as Los Angeles and Long Beach, which have become much less competitive themselves in the past decade. The improved roadway would make it possible to effectively serve the markets of the U.S. Midwest, South and East through a connection to Interstate 29 in North Dakota.

The issue of greenhouse-gas emissions

A question was raised about the advisability of expanding highways at a time that the world is attempting to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Such a strategy would seem to be at odds with the popular perception that we shall all have to abandon our cars and move into flats in the central city. This perception presumes that people are prepared to return to the standards of living and lifestyles of 1980, 1950 or even 1750. In all of my presentations on similar issues, I’ve yet to uncover any groundswell of support for the lifestyles of yesterday.

It needs to be recognized that the international commitment to reducing GHGs is based upon an assumption of minimal impact on the economy. GHG reductions will be achieved only if they are acceptable to people, which requires acceptable costs (research by the United Nations International Panel on Climate Change suggests an upper bound of $50 a ton).

Cost effectiveness is necessary not only to prevent a huge increase in poverty, but also to allow continued progress toward poverty alleviation and upward mobility. In fact, recent U.S. research indicates real-world potential to reduce GHGs from reduced levels of driving is scant.

Because of the importance of tying the nation together, it would be appropriate to spend federal and provincial funds on the Canadian Autobahn. User fees — such as a dedicated gasoline tax (as in the U.S.) or tolls (as in France, China and Mexico) — could finance the expansions, using public-private partnerships or “arm’s length” government corporations.

A comprehensive national system of freeways or expressways is essential to Canada’s future prosperity.

[89s1]

Building the same cloverleaf intersection that was built in the dark ages with terrible weave zones on new projects like the ring road.

Fail.

[bspot]

Originally posted by 89s1
Building the same cloverleaf intersection that was built in the dark ages with terrible weave zones on new projects like the ring road.

Fail.

Such as???

Stoney/Crowchild, Stoney/Deerfoot and Stoney/16th are pretty good examples of weave mitigation at a pretty big price tag.

[Zewind]

I hate Canadian Highways

[Godfuader]

People cross the border to drive cross country because of the road side services. I have done cross-continental trip a couple times, and loved the US side. They do have a much larger population to warrant such services. Canada is too rural outside of the major cities to ever justify building such a network.

[bart]

canada is proud of their trans-canada garbage, sorry i don't consider 16th ave a god damn highway

[miguex]

Shit! I can't wait doing +300 km/h on a "Canadian Autobahn" :drool:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[black13]

Problem is Canada is too spread out for the little population it has compared to all those other countries.
Still I'd love to see some bullet trains and and high speed highways. Hell people do 150km/h regularly on QE2 anyways.

[Hakkola]

We aren't too spread out, if you count where 90% of the population is, it's not like we need high speed motorways going to Iqaluit.

The problem is that Canada fucking blows when it comes to anything related to transportation so I'll be surprised if anything comes of this.

[sillysod]

the problem is our gas taxes that are supposed to go to roads go to everything but roads - including multi-million dollar aborigional interpretive centres in the middle of nowhere

canadian drivers struggle to drive to balzac without getting in an accident. as a general rule most people here shouldn't be driving over 100km/h.

[speedog]

Thank you, FraserB .

[v2kai]

we also have winters out the ass compared to the other more moderate climate areas in the world requiring much less road maintenance. still would be nice. our roadways and planning suck ass

[94boosted]

A Canadian Autobahn :rofl: that'll be the day. Like has been said we have far too many idiots on our roads to allow for a high speed highway. Make our drivers license test more like any of the European countries, punish stupid drivers more sternly and then we can have a high speed road network.

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by 94boosted
A Canadian Autobahn :rofl: that'll be the day. Like has been said we have far too many idiots on our roads to allow for a high speed highway. Make our drivers license test more like any of the European countries, punish stupid drivers more sternly and then we can have a high speed road network.

:werd: the german license is one of the most strict driving courses for driving licenses in the world, right up there with some scandanavian countries.

some ppl dont even know how to change their own spare tire, let alone fill up washer fluid into the correct spout (i've seen it first hand), just because they arent trained or taught properly how to do it in this continent/country its rightfully so that ppl are also shitty ass drivers too if they've never been taught otherwise.

[cycosis]

Just to put things a bit in perspective for those who have never been on the german autobahn, its not some magical 16 lane super highway that goes everywhere. Its quite fragmented and has a TON of traffic control and speed cameras on it. Not only that, but they have car distance measurers so if you are following too close you get a ticket. Every 10-20 km there are digital speed limit signs that change depending on the day. Ya, there are sections that in the morning may have no speed limit but traffic impedes you from going balls out. From what I experienced, the majority of the time, speed is limited to 120km/h. The most I could get up to from Stuttgart to Munich was 200km/h for maybe 15 seconds and when I drove to Prague, I managed a 210km/h for about 20 seconds. (Although that highway was empty and I did sustain an amazing 160km/h for about 2 hours straight.) Lastly, alot of what I drove on, mostly in the south of germany so I cant give any info on the north, was two lanes in each direction with the odd section that opened to 3 lanes in each direction.

Remember that Germany is smaller than Alberta. Having an 8 lane road system going cross country would be an insane undertaking and we dont have the traffic to justify it due to low population and significantly less commercial transportation.

[M.alex]

Good idea, but lets think about this for a second. Very few people here understand 'GET THE FVCK OUT OF THE LEFT LANE IF SOMEBODY IS APPROACHING RAPIDLY FROM BEHIND' and are afraid to go over 100 on Deerfoot. The culture is wrong for it and it would never work.

In Germany they know to not linger in the left lane.



Originally posted by bart
canada is proud of their trans-canada garbage, sorry i don't consider 16th ave a god damn highway

Who was the great engineer who thought it'd be a good idea to run a highway that way, lol lol.

[italianstylez]

The autobann is heated , and it also is always on a slight bank so that the water escapes right away with out freezing. So that would be nice to have that here .

[revelations]

Originally posted by italianstylez
The autobann is heated , and it also is always on a slight bank so that the water escapes right away with out freezing. So that would be nice to have that here .

Say that again? Heated?

[Kennyredline]

We have an Autobahn.....it's Deerfoot.....

[Xtrema]

From Calgary to Thunder Bay should not have a speed limit, ever.

[italianstylez]

Ya I watched this review on speed tv one day and went threw a whole breakdown on it. They even have there own mobile mechanics to get you back on the road. The whole thing is monitored by video also. Also the speed is regulated you get instant suspensions if your speeding pretty good on it.

[revelations]

In Germany (and many other countries) , the onus is placed on the driver to be aware and in control of their vehicle at all times.

An example are things like violation tickets for running out of fuel, carrying with you a basic first aid kit and strict adherence to basic common sense.

The mentality that driving is a privilege not a right also permeates the culture there, rather than in North American where it is backwards.

[Alak]

Originally posted by italianstylez
The autobann is heated , and it also is always on a slight bank so that the water escapes right away with out freezing. So that would be nice to have that here .

The roads are crowned here for that purpose. Problem is they use shitty building material and dont maintain it.

We probably have some of the worst maintained roads in the world, and now you want to drive 200+ kmph on? Ya'll are crazy. CRAZY!

[italianstylez]

if we invested the same technology as they did in the autobahn then i am sure that it would be fine here. most cars can handle and be stable at 200+km/h i am most defs sure that we wont get that here at all. or anything similar

[nich148_9]

The United States has 10x the population Canada does. Much of their freeway system is located in areas with high population density (west and east coasts), with connections throughout the country. The bulk of Canada's population is spread out amongst a few cities on the west end of the country, and a cluster of cities two timezones away on the east end. We're simply too spread out. Not many people drive Calgary to Toronto on a regular basis, so why would that be a good investment?

[J-hop]

.

[THEMONK]

Canada lacks in a whole sh!t load of things besides a major metroconnecting roadway. One only needs to travel outside Canadian borders to witness first hand how behind we are compared to other first world countries. Canada coddles it's citizens way too much, it's like a parent looking out for it's 3 year old except unfortunately we are 30.

[speedog]

So, so many keyboard critics in this thread and most of them are still young enough that they could effect real change if they got up off of their arses and actually did something other than complaining in here.

You want better highways and higher speeds - then get involved at the right places. Unfortunately though, when you get involved then you will discover some ugly truths such as detailed by a few intelligent posters above (J-hop, nich148_9 and cycosis to name a few).

But still, get up off of your duffs and actually do something - pissing and moaning about it in beyond isn't going to make a whole hill of beans difference to those that actually make the decisions regarding our highways and the associated laws pertaining to them.