Olympus E-PL1

[89coupe]

Any thoughts on the new Olympus E-PL1? I'm considering getting this for my Dad. He wants a compact camera that produces decent quality photos and video.

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/product.asp?product=1501

[Mitsu3000gt]

It's a great little camera, and the Panasonic GF-1 & Sony NEX's direct competition.

Same story as always though, DSLR bodies are getting pretty small these days and are better than cameras like the GF-1 and E-PL1 in literally every way performance-wise, so that is something to consider as well.

With anything other than the pancake lenses (no zoom), IMO, you would be better off with a Nikon D3100. The E-PL1 is not a small camera anymore as soon as you put the 14-42mm lens on it. Neither are pocketable. You're going to have to carry them both around in a bag anyways, the size difference isn't huge, the weight difference is insignificant, but the performance difference is big.

They are really nice little cameras, but if I were going to buy one I'd probably just end up with a D3100 instead.

Also consider something like the Canon S95, Canon G12, and Nikon P7000. All are amazing little P&S cameras significantly smaller than the E-PL1/GF1 w/lens attached and would probably meet his needs. If you're going to get something as big as the E-PL1 or similar though, I'd go for a small DSLR.

[AccentAE86]

I'm gonna disagree. I have a GF1 and I got it specifically for the size. No, it is NOT pocketable, and I wasn't looking for it to be. But the HUGE difference between an EVIL (electric viewfinder interchangeable lens) camera and DSLR is that the EVIL cameras can typically easily fit into a bag that you might already be carrying. DSLRs (even the mini DSLRs like the G2) pretty much need their own dedicated bag, or require you to strap the camera around your neck the whole time. Our GF1 fits in our glove box, my wife's purse, the baby's diaper bag, etc... Which means that we take a billion more pictures because we end up carrying it around a lot more.

Before the GF1, I was a pro photographer that got paid to take photos but took NO photos of my own life. Mostly due to the inconvenience of DSLR sizes. Now I take my GF1 with me everywhere. Even when I don't have a bag, I strap it around my neck/shoulder and wear my coat OVER it. Can't do that comfortably/awkwardly with a rebel/d3100/G2.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Just curious Accent, do you have a pancake lens on your GF-1 or one of the zooms? Its the zooms that, IMO, make them far less portable. They are pretty slim with the pancake lenses.

[rage2]

I have the pancake, along with 2 zooms, and even with the biggest zoom, it's a lot smaller than an equivilent DSLR + zoom. I kept the body + all 3 lenses with me in a small little "murse" whenever I travel, a hell of a lot more portable than any DSLR. I travelled several countries with both setups, and never again am I hauling the DSLR gear across the world, when the GF-1 package is so much more compact, and produces similar results.

This thread feels like deja vu, I swear we had another one where we're going at it over image quality. I think you're just a m4/3 hater Mitsu. :rofl:

Brad, if you wanna borrow my GF-1 setup for a few days, you're more than welcome to. That'll give you a better idea for portability and quality over your typical DSLRs.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by rage2
.

This thread feels like deja vu, I swear we had another one where we're going at it over image quality. I think you're just a m4/3 hater Mitsu. :rofl:



Haha yeah I remember we talked about this before. It's comparing apples to oranges. The m4/3 cameras in question use a sensor half the size of an APS-C DSLR and use contrast detect AF rather than phase detect. Both cameras serve their intended purpose. A m4/3 will never be as good as a competing DSLR, but the DSLR will be a little bit bigger.

I am not a hater though :) ...last week I ALMOST bought either a GF-1 or E-PL1 as I am currently replacing my P&S camera and I thought m4/3 was the way to go. I literally had the two in my hands and I was trying to decide what I liked better. I put a zoom lens on it, put it beside a Nikon D3100 w/kit lens, and decided that I would need a separate bag for either, even though the m4/3 cameras were a little bit thinner. I ended up with a Canon S95 and I am loving it so far - very impressed with this little cam.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Haha yeah I remember we talked about this before. It's comparing apples to oranges. The m4/3 cameras in question use a sensor half the size of an APS-C DSLR and use contrast detect AF rather than phase detect.
Not quite... sensor sizes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format

APS-C - 329mm2
4/3rd - 225mm2

The 4/3rds sensor is only 32% smaller, so it's close, and nowhere near double the size. I still think you're a hater! :rofl:

[Mitsu3000gt]

:rofl: My bad, got my sensor sized mixed up.

I still almost bought one :D

[rage2]

Kinda funny that you ended up with a P&S with a really small sensor haha. 43.3mm2, the 4/3rd sensor is over 5x bigger lol. In anycase, I've used the G11, same sensor I believe, and it's a great camera. Size isn't everything. At least, that's what I tell my bitches! :rofl:

Anyways, I think you should give the m4/3rds a try. You'd be surprised at how close image quality is compared to aps-c DSLR's.

[Unknown303]

I wonder when Canon is going to roll out a 4-3 system.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by rage2
Kinda funny that you ended up with a P&S with a really small sensor haha. 43.3mm2, the 4/3rd sensor is over 5x bigger lol. In anycase, I've used the G11, same sensor I believe, and it's a great camera. Size isn't everything. At least, that's what I tell my bitches! :rofl:

Anyways, I think you should give the m4/3rds a try. You'd be surprised at how close image quality is compared to aps-c DSLR's.

Yeah, I didn't expect to end up with one either. I wanted the highest possible image quality in a package that would NOT require me to carry an additional camera case. For me, anyways, every m4/3 camera is too big and would require an additional carrying case (I am far too anal to just throw it in a bag or my pocket unprotected haha).

The S95 has the same sensor as the Canon G12, the G11 uses a higher MP sensor.

Secondly, whatever I bought would have to have an underwater enclosure and there are no reasonable options for underwater enclosures for the m4/3 system (S95 enclosure is only $170). So that's why I ended up with the S95. I'd be hauling around a bag anyways if I had a m4/3 camera so anytime I would do that, I'll have my DSLR instead. For day to day stuff and snorkeling, I am more than happy with the S95.

My dream small camera would be something S95/G12/P7000 sized with a m4/3 sensor and a FIXED fast lens. The current m4/3 cameras come close to that, but only when fitted with a pancake lens which has no zoom and no image stabilization.

[Str1der]

Sony NEX has the same APS-C used by Nikon which provides significantly better high ISO performance than m4/3 sensors.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Str1der
Sony NEX has the same APS-C used by Nikon which provides significantly better high ISO performance than m4/3 sensors.

They're also crippled by big lenses. Another win for the m4/3 sensor in my books.

I seriously thought I loved my LX3. I seriously thought that it would be more versatile than the GF1. I convinced myself that the GF1 could not replace the LX3's great lens and decent low light capability. I was wrong. The GF1 with the 20mm was all that I ever needed. It's just a fantastic little camera, with amazingly fast focus speed and accuracy. The LX3's sensor, even if slightly bigger, is still too small. It's AF, even though fast for a P&S, is still too slow. The LX3 is still a fantastic cam and for outdoor shots, it's SECOND TO NONE but if someone put a gun to my head and asked me to pick a camera, I'd pick up the GF1 everytime.

Who gives a fuck about slightly smaller sensor size or whatever the else is wrong with the GF1. The fact is, the GF1 can produce AMAZING results. It's incredibly easy to use with lots of dedicated buttons for everything including ISO and WB. The click wheel makes manual camera settings and manual focusing a SNAP. The 20mm f/1.7 is tack sharp, has a very usable focal length, and hey it's f/1.7!!! And it's small enough that it can be carried around in a purse, diaper bag or small pouch. And when that moment comes, the camera is with me. The D3100 is WAY TOO BIG even with the smallest lens.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by clem24


The LX3 is still a fantastic cam and for outdoor shots, it's SECOND TO NONE

Do you mean just P&S cameras? Because I can think of about 30 cams off the top of my head right now that would be better in everything, let alone outdoor shots... If you are talking about P&S cameras only, it definitely has some tough competition (S95, G12, P7000, etc.). I also read a lot about color complaints with the LX series (color blooming, cyan skies, etc.), have you had any of those issues? Everyone seems to bash Panasonic color, even the guys who own them (particularly the LX series).


Originally posted by clem24

Who gives a fuck about slightly smaller sensor size or whatever the else is wrong with the GF1. The fact is, the GF1 can produce AMAZING results. It's incredibly easy to use with lots of dedicated buttons for everything including ISO and WB. The click wheel makes manual camera settings and manual focusing a SNAP. The 20mm f/1.7 is tack sharp, has a very usable focal length, and hey it's f/1.7!!! And it's small enough that it can be carried around in a purse, diaper bag or small pouch. And when that moment comes, the camera is with me. The D3100 is WAY TOO BIG even with the smallest lens.

Lots of people care about the things you think are non-issues. For example it seems you value physical size over sensor size, and some people are the opposite. There is nothing wrong with that, but neither is the only right way. Also some people want image stabilization and the ability to zoom, neither of which you get with a pancake lens and a GF1. The GF1 certainly isn't for everyone, I chose not to buy it a week ago and I was choosing between a P&S, GF1 and E-PL1. The GF1 is an awesome cam, but it's definitely not the clear choice depending on what you want to get out of it. There is no cheap underwater housing for it either, which was another big deal for me. I chose the S95 because it was the smallest, has the best ISO performance in it's class, can shoot RAW, has image stabilization, has a cheap underwater housing, and I could get it for $330 which is $100+ less than anything else. If I am going to carry a bag with me, my D300 will be in it.

As for size, a D3100 w/small prime easily fits in a purse, diaper bag, or small pouch as well. When I was on holidays I saw people keep their small SLR's in their purses or whatever all the time. No question it's bigger than a GF1 but neither are pocketable, so if you need to carry a small bag around anyways there isn't THAT much difference, IMO anyways. I even remember seeing a couple in Europe on the beach keep their D90 w/kit lens in some sort of soft pouch and they just kept it in their beach bag. In that particular case there was no difference in convenience between the smallest P&S and the D90 because they didn't care about keeping their D90 in good shape lol - they just threw it everywhere.

In other news, Olympus is bringing a very interesting camera to the market, it's only downfalls seem to be size, the need for a lens cap, and that it's using the LX5 sensor which is noisier than the competition at this time and has blooming issues (unless Olympus works some magic with processing, which they very well could). By far the most interesting thing is it's 28-112mm f1.8-2.5 lens. It's clearly targeted directly at the LX5.


http://www.43rumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/high_compact.png

http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-the-olympus-xz-1-with-28-112mm-f1-8-2-5-lens-coming-panasonic-compact-cameras/

http://www.43rumors.com/high-resolution-image-of-the-olympus-xz1-i-has-an-oled-screen/

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1009/10092010olyzuikolenscompact.asp

[Str1der]

Originally posted by clem24
They're also crippled by big lenses. Another win for the m4/3 sensor in my books.

:rofl: Yeah, ok, if by bigger you actually mean smaller.

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/attachments/f41/411d1281273618-mirrorless-camera-size-comparison-nex5-nx10-e-p2-e-pl1-gf1-g2-p1060445-jpg
Sony NEX 16mm f/2.8, Samsung 30mm f/2, Panasonic 20mm f/1.7.

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/attachments/f41/409d1281273328-mirrorless-camera-size-comparison-nex5-nx10-e-p2-e-pl1-gf1-g2-p1060443-jpg

Olympus mZD 14-42mm lens (kit zoom for Olympus Micro 4/3 cameras, shown collapsed), Sony NEX 18-55mm lens (kit zoom for Sony NEX cameras), Panasonic 14-45mm lens (kit zoom for Panasonic G1 and GF1), Panasonic 14-42mm lens (kit zoom for Panasonic G2 and G10), Samsung NX 18-55 (kit zoom for Samsung NX10)

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/attachments/f41/415d1281273880-mirrorless-camera-size-comparison-nex5-nx10-e-p2-e-pl1-gf1-g2-p1060449-jpg


http://www.seriouscompacts.com/attachments/f41/420d1281273967-mirrorless-camera-size-comparison-nex5-nx10-e-p2-e-pl1-gf1-g2-p1060459-jpg

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/attachments/f41/421d1281273981-mirrorless-camera-size-comparison-nex5-nx10-e-p2-e-pl1-gf1-g2-p1060460-jpg


Who gives a fuck about sensor size? Probably the same people who value better high ISO performance, better dynamic range, better IQ...all wrapped up in a small package that is, wait for it, nearly the same size as your beloved LX3, yet can shrug in conditions under which the GF1 does a little poo-hang as it starts to shit the bed: http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/review/special/20100520_368000.html

[Mitsu3000gt]

The Olympus XZ-1 that everyone knew was coming is official. Looks to be a LX5 killer.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1101/11010620olympusxz1.asp

Unfortunately, it's quite big, $500 USD MSRP, it needs a lens cap, and it doesn't have optical stabilization (ccd shift only). Other than that it looks fantastic, and Olympus is known to work some magic with JPEGS (hopefully much better than the LX5 as it's using the LX5 sensor). Price will be a bit lower on the street as well, likely $449. There is also an underwater housing available.

EPL-2 announced as well:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1101/11010622olympusepl2.asp

Nikon will be announcing a competing compact in February too (thats when they do all their coolpix stuff), not CES.

[Str1der]

Fuji X100

http://www.quesabesde.com/camdig/noticias/Fuji_X100_contacto_2.jpg

APS-C sensor
35mm F2 lens

[Str1der]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Nikon will be announcing a competing compact in February too (thats when they do all their coolpix stuff), not CES.

Hoping for an EVIL, but who knows.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Str1der


Hoping for an EVIL, but who knows.

EVIL is coming, but this is an actual compact that they are coming out with as well, to compete with LX5, S95, ZX-1, etc. Fast lens, same sensor as P7000, etc.

[Str1der]

I've been holding off on an EVIL in hopes of a unit with native F-Mount - I really want to avoid a whole new batch of lenses and adapter kludge.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Str1der
Fuji X100

http://www.quesabesde.com/camdig/noticias/Fuji_X100_contacto_2.jpg

APS-C sensor
35mm F2 lens

Sadly, it's $1000 and has no image stabilization. You also can't change lenses, and it comes with a prime, but it will be very good I suspect. It's also a CMOS sensor which different than the excellent CCD's in the S5, etc. so I hope they did as good of a job with it. Interested to see how good the AF is too.

The lack of image stabilization and price remove any interest I had in this camera when it was a rumor. HUGE oversight IMO. It will fill the niche market it's targeted at though, I'm sure.

They are also starting to put megazooms, smaller sensors, and huge megapixels in their once best in class compacts. Fuji has been breaking my balls lately.

It'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against the NEX-5 as well.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Str1der
I've been holding off on an EVIL in hopes of a unit with native F-Mount - I really want to avoid a whole new batch of lenses and adapter kludge.

Nikon also has patents for interchangeable sensors and silent, motorized zoom lenses (for video) in the EVIL, so it will be interesting to see what actually hits the market.

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by Str1der
Fuji X100

Is there any word on when this camera will be out yet? I can definitely see myself getting this if the image quality and viewfinder are good.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz


Is there any word on when this camera will be out yet? I can definitely see myself getting this if the image quality and viewfinder are good.

What I've been reading suggests March 2011.

IQ will probably be great. I doubt the viewfinder will be that good though...we will see.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Str1der


:rofl: Yeah, ok, if by bigger you actually mean smaller.

Sony NEX 16mm f/2.8, Samsung 30mm f/2, Panasonic 20mm f/1.7.



LOL dude... Review your specs. NEX 16mm f/2.8 vs. Panny f/1.7.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by clem24


LOL dude... Review your specs. NEX 16mm f/2.8 vs. Panny f/1.7.

That is true, but it's not what you said nor the point Str1der is arguing. You said NEX cameras were crippled by big lenses, which they aren't. That's it. Of the options available, the NEX lenses are physically the same size or smaller. I would hardly call that "crippling". The camera itself is significantly smaller than a GF-1 too.

[Mitsu3000gt]

More X100 news....Still on track for March 2011 availability, MSRP is higher than expected at $1,200 USD, and Fuji is "surprised" by the level of interest people seem to have in such cameras. Apparently they are interested in more products in the area between a P&S and a DSLR.

Fuji F550 also has to be just about the most feature packed P&S I've seen, but I'm skeptical about that 16MP sensor and the lens is only f3.5-5.3. They switched to CMOS sensor technology though (Most P&S use CCD still). It's also got RAW capture, 24mm wide end, dual exposure capability, full HD 1080p/30 video with slow motion mode, built in GPS, 8-11 FPS shooting (8fps full resolution), and a new high res screen with vectoring.

If this thing had a better lens on it and a bigger sensor with less MP it would be many people's dream P&S I suspect. They definitely seem to be falling into the marketing trap with crazy features, high MP, etc. at the expense of sensor size, lens quality, etc.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1101/11010512fujifilmf550f500exr.asp

[89coupe]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


If this thing had a better lens on it and a bigger sensor with less MP it would be many people's dream P&S I suspect. They definitely seem to be falling into the marketing trap with crazy features, high MP, etc. at the expense of sensor size, lens quality, etc.


LOL:rofl:

If she only had firmer tits, a tighter ass & made more money I suspect she would be every guys dream girl.

:rofl:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by 89coupe


LOL:rofl:

If she only had firmer tits, a tighter ass & made more money I suspect she would be every guys dream girl.

:rofl:

I get what you're saying, the thing is though, that it is completely reasonable to make such a thing and people would buy them by the truck load. There are many top selling cameras out right now that are ALMOST there.

Every time a new P&S is released, everyone has the EXACT same complaints, every single time. The problem is that the companies get higher sales marketing cameras to people who do zero research, and buy on megapixels and basic spec lists. A potential uneducated customer gets a chubby, maybe even a halfer, when they hear "16MP" or whatever in a P&S camera. What they don't know that the sensor is the size of a pinhead and is garbage above ISO 100.

There are also lots of unused sensor sizes that would be amazing for smaller cameras, like 1", 2/3", super 16, etc.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


That is true, but it's not what you said nor the point Str1der is arguing. You said NEX cameras were crippled by big lenses, which they aren't. That's it. Of the options available, the NEX lenses are physically the same size or smaller. I would hardly call that "crippling". The camera itself is significantly smaller than a GF-1 too.

Fine I take it back. I have the Oly 14-42 collapsible on my GF1 and it's way smaller than the NEX5 with 18-55 that I played with. Also, it might be "significantly" smaller in pictures but in practice, it is not smaller than the GF1. I thought it was small until I saw how much the lens mount juts out. Yes it's thinner in some areas but with lens attached it still takes up the same amount of volume as the GF1.

In any case, yes I've totally become a GF1 fanboi. I love the camera to death.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by clem24


Fine I take it back. I have the Oly 14-42 collapsible on my GF1 and it's way smaller than the NEX5 with 18-55 that I played with. Also, it might be "significantly" smaller in pictures but in practice, it is not smaller than the GF1. I thought it was small until I saw how much the lens mount juts out. Yes it's thinner in some areas but with lens attached it still takes up the same amount of volume as the GF1.

In any case, yes I've totally become a GF1 fanboi. I love the camera to death.

Nothing wrong with that! It's a fine cam and was in the top 3 when I was looking to buy.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Short review of the Olympus XZ-1....looks to be exactly as expected. Competitive ISO performance, quick operation, etc. Looks like it *may* suffer from the same cyan sky JPEG problem as the LX3/LX5 though. We'll need to see more samples to confirm.

http://www.davidchuaphotography.com/2011/01/06/olympus-xz-1-review-part-1/