HIV/Aids "House of Numbers"

[Toma]

Huh.... watched it half ass while reading and doing other things, now GOTTA watch it again...

Some of this was very surprising.

Got it off a torrent site.

I had no idea some of this shit was so controversial.

[BMDUBS]

Hey where did you get this/see this? Cant seem to find it on the normal avenues for download??

[Toma]

Preview/site http://www.houseofnumbers.com/site/

Torrent

http://btjunkie.org/torrent/House-of-Numbers-The-AIDS-depopulation-program-The-UN-wants-you-dead/39526c9aa41ccf347a3f3eeeb3f7b73094f9badcd159

[BMDUBS]

Thanks bro!

[Iceman_19]

Wow, just watched the preview on the site, downloading now. Its mind boggling to think of the shit government bodies cram down our throats to make us work for money to spend the money we make.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Iceman_19
Wow, just watched the preview on the site, downloading now. Its mind boggling to think of the shit government bodies cram down our throats to make us work for money to spend the money we make.

How the fuck did you get that from the preview?

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by Toma
...Some of this was very surprising.
...
I had no idea some of this shit was so controversial. It's not controversial.

This looks like another crank/conspiracy movie like that one about the World Trade Center, what was it called? Loose Change or something like that?

The Lancet has published an article denouncing the film, and even the interviewees in the film say that their comments were edited/manipulated without their knowledge to make them appear to say things that they don't believe, like that there's no concensus that HIV exists, or causes AIDS. Here's a link to their responses:

http://www.houseofnumbers.org/What_Interviewees_Say.html

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Hey man, don't stifle the "Debate" with your logic and scientific consensus and education! The people have the right to "know"...


ugh.

[sputnik]

This "documentary" is full of scientific fail.

Might as well have been written and produced by an insane ape version of Michael Moore with the creators of Loose Change.

Scientific analysis done by Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey along with Jojo's Psychic Alliance.

http://www.houseofnumbers.org/

[PD77]

You know, for a guy who likes to tell people to fuck the system and stop believing their drivel you sure have a penchant for being gullible as long as their views reflect your own.

[SmAcKpOo]

How is it full of scientific fail? Clearly you have the credentials to comment on the scientific validity of the argument :facepalm:

The documentary seems to reference Doctors who have the credentials to comment on the matter, one doctor is actually a Nobel prize winner. Not that it matters in any case, it seems that there is good evidence on both sides.

Been reading up on the whole debate this morning and I am looking forward to watching this when I get home.

*Edited*




It's not controversial.

This looks like another crank/conspiracy movie like that one about the World Trade Center, what was it called? Loose Change or something like that?

The Lancet has published an article denouncing the film, and even the interviewees in the film say that their comments were edited/manipulated without their knowledge to make them appear to say things that they don't believe, like that there's no concensus that HIV exists, or causes AIDS. Here's a link to their responses:

http://www.houseofnumbers.org/What_...iewees_Say.html



Nice link. Just goes to show that everyone needs to stay objective and be able to critically analyze and discern the hidden messages in the so called documentary.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by SmAcKpOo
The documentary seems to reference Doctors who have the credentials to comment on the matter, one doctor is actually a Nobel prize winner. Not that it matters in any case, it seems that there is good evidence on both sides.

Read what they each had to say about the movie after it was creatively edited and released.

http://www.houseofnumbers.org/What_Interviewees_Say.html

[SmAcKpOo]

Yea I did.

I wasn't my intention to give you a hard time.

[Iceman_19]

The doctors can say what they want, but the fact that all the tests themselves are fucked, and you will get a different diagnosis depending where you are in the world, is not something that anyone should take lightly.

[Toma]

Gallo's response is very understandable as he is who everyone was taking aim at.

I don't think Montagnier's "Testimony" was much different. I think he was worried about being misinterpreted, but I didn't see it that way in the movie to begin with.

Lots of experts in that flick, testimony, and anecdotal evidence to make you think.

Some of what they say, in the way it was said, the message is clear.

They may no agree with the conclusions of the film, and I don't either, but with the particular topic they were interviewed about and spoke of in the film, I do not see how they were "misrepresented".

So, if one guy was talking about funding of HIV versus co factors, its important to KNOW, as any critical viewer should know, is that he was talking about funding and procedure, and not AIDS being a myth.

When Chin talks about Advocacy and problems with testing in third world countries, and the problems with "numbers", THAT is what he is talking about.

When Sonnabend is talking about HIV causing Aids without co-factors, and calls the idea ridiculous, THAT is what he is talking about.

When Gelderblom states he was not impressed with the pictured of HIV, THAT is what he was talking about...

And there are quite a few guys that were interviewed in the film, PHD's, WHO staff, ex CDC doctors etc who have NOT come out against the film.

So anyway, watch it with a critical mind.

Pretty fascinating, and it would not be as fascinating if it was not controversial.

[dexlargo]

^And I haven't seen the movie, just the trailer, so I won't try and argue with what you're saying here. I might give it a watch and see if there might be something of value in there.

I don't have high hopes though. Here's an interesting article about how Leung and the deniers reacted to medical experts who tried to discuss the film at a panel following a screening:

http://www.baywindows.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=glbt&sc2=news&sc3=&id=90259

What's even more revealing is the discussion in the comments to the article on that page. If I hadn't thought that the people in Leung's camp were cranks before, I definitely do now.

[kertejud2]

It's becoming painfully obvious that Toma is willing to believe anything because he thinks acknowledging a controversy (regardless of how fabricated, manipulated or inaccurate) will make him seem smarter and more open-minded.


It's a shit documentary made by people with a crackpot agenda. You treat it like historians treat David Irving's early work (an unpopular but very useful account of an otherwise under-studied side of the story), when really its like David Irving's later work (sensationalized and purposefully controversial crap).

[DayGlow]

We need an 'Area 51' forum

[Toma]

Yeah, saw that baywindows article.... and I agree, but if they wanted a convincing discussion, why not invite "denier" scientists to participate?

I know there are lots of deniers.

And I believe in science. But man, some of the deniers are world class scientists in this HIV/Aids talk.

Peter Duesberg is in the film, probably the most famous denier of all, author of "Inventing the Aids Virus".... but unlike the pseudoscinetists like Tim Ball that deny global warming, this dude is legit, Prof at Berkley in Molecular biology, one of the dudes that isolated the first Cancer gene, lots of papers... even his colleagues say he is a smart smart man, but do not agree with him lol.

I can see this film has an agenda, seems ot be that too much money is being spent on HIV/Aids, and not enough on other possible causes....

But some of the info is quite cool.

[Toma]

Both Sonnabend and Root-Bernstein now favor a less controversial hypothesis, suggesting that while HIV is necessary for AIDS, cofactors may also contribute.

Walter Gilbert, winner of the 1980 Nobel Prize in Chemistry, once expressed skepticism about the role of HIV in AIDS. Like Sonnabend, he has since changed his mind in response to the effectiveness of antiretroviral treatment.

Makes sense... and what I believe.

But I also "buy" that the numbers in some third world countries are "cooked"

The fact that the author of the film, who is HIV positive, tested negative on two tests in Africa... lol.... interesting.

And that they can diagnose you as positive without a test in certain areas in Africa.... (still trying to verify this, and see if it's still current)....

[CUG]

Originally posted by DayGlow
We need an 'Area 51' forum No.Shit. :clap:

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by CUG
No.Shit. :clap:

But it would just be Toma and Zen0ps posting...

[jutes]

Only thing that really stuck out at me was how sick people got when they took the HIV medication. The part where the little adopted baby almost died because of the HIV drug, but is now living normally 18 years later after she was taken off of it. Don't know what to think.....

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by jutes
Only thing that really stuck out at me was how sick people got when they took the HIV medication. The part where the little adopted baby almost died because of the HIV drug, but is now living normally 18 years later after she was taken off of it. Don't know what to think.....

Drugs can be serious business, we give stuff to people all the time that in larger dosages can (well, will) lead to certain and painful death. Some people are allergic to aspirin, its hard to know how anybody would react to what are relatively new drugs never mind a baby.

[Toma]

Originally posted by jutes
Only thing that really stuck out at me was how sick people got when they took the HIV medication. The part where the little adopted baby almost died because of the HIV drug, but is now living normally 18 years later after she was taken off of it. Don't know what to think.....

Yeah, legit story...it's right on Duesbergs site.

[Toma]

I forget the other European doctor's name... the one that said "We killed a whole generation of AIDS patients with the drugs"