Calgary Public Transit Discussion Thread

[frinkprof]

A thread to discuss public transit in Calgary. Information, questions, current issues, pros, cons, ideas, future plans, past experiences, whatever. I'm not sure if there will be enough interest here to sustain this thread, but it's a topic that comes up often enough in other threads.

I've compiled a bit of an information resource below to let everyone know what is currently happening with the system, and what is to come. All to the best of my knowledge of course, so if you have any other information, post it and I'll make the changes. I have kept most of the images as small as possible to make navigation easier. Just click on the image to see the larger version.

These first couple posts are basically a carbon-copy of a similar thread I started on Calgary Puck if any of you post there.




CURRENT PROJECTS


LRT INFRASTRUCTURE


West LRT

Stations: 7 - 11th Street West, Sunalta, Shaganappi Point, Westbrook, 45th Street, Sirocco, 69th Street
Status: Under Construction
Completion: Opens December 10th, 2012

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/wlrtroutemap.jpg
http://www.westlrt.ca/files/WestLRT_Map.pdf


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/sirocco.jpg
Sirocco Station

http://www.westlrt.ca/files/Signal%20Hill%20Aerial%20and%20Elevations.pdf


HVrMzFMCoBI
http://www.westlrt.ca/contentabout/route_animation.cfm



Northeast LRT Phase II Extension

Stations: 2 - Martindale and Saddletown
Status: Under Construction
Completion: 2012


Martindale
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/martindale-1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/martindale2.jpg

Saddletowne
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/saddletowne.jpg

www.gecarch.com (http://www.gecarch.com/)


Northwest LRT Phase IV Extension

Stations: 1 - Tuscany
Status: Delayed start until 2012
Completion: 2014

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/XRT1.jpg
http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/transportation_infrastructure/rocky_ridge_tuscany/station_view_from_tuscany.pdf

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/XRT2.jpg
http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/transportation_infrastructure/rocky_ridge_tuscany/station_view_from_ped_bridge.pdf

7th Avenue Refurbishment Project

Stations: Rebuilding and/or relocation of all platforms along 7th Avenue
Status: 1st, 3rd, 6th, 7th and 8th Streets completed. City Hall and 4th Street Under Construction, Centre Street and 11th Street to be done
Completion: 2012


http://compscience.info/public/images/2010/gateway_stations-west.jpg
http://compscience.info/public/images/2010/gateway_stations-west.jpg


New LRVs

Model: SD160 Series 8
Number: 38 on order
Arrival Status: 11 units have arrived as of 01/12/11

Exterior:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/SD160nextgen1.jpg

New Seating Arrangement:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/SD160nextgenseat.jpg

Video:

ckD-YeDj_aA


BUS

Airport Service

Description: The bus service to the airport is being improved and revamped. There will be two new routes and eventually a tram.
Completion: New route to/from McKnight-Westwinds Station by 2011, new BRT route to/from downtown by 2012.


Calgary Transit's Proposed Service Plan for YYC Airport (http://www.calgarytransit.com/pdf/Proposed_Transit_Service_Plan_for_YYC.pdf)

2012:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/2012ctairport.jpg

Routes 430 and 57 are existing (57 currently goes all the way to terminal, but doesn't in above map due to Barlow Trail closure).

Route 100 would be in service by 2011

Route 310 is a BRT route that would be in operation by 2012

Long Term:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/longtermctairport.jpg

Route 310 is replaced by "European-style" Tram.


New Buses


Model: Nova LFS 40102
Number: 49 on order
Arrival Status: 11 have arrived as of 01/12/11


SYSTEM IMPROVEMENTS


Systemwide 4-car LRV Capacity and Traction Power Upgrades

Stations: All but Shawnessy, Somerset, Dalhousie, McKnight, Crowfoot, 7th Avenue.
Status: Whitehorn station currently undergoing extension and reconstruction, all others to be done.
Completion: 2014


Advanced Passenger Information System

Description: Realtime vehicle arrival information for LRT and BRT lines using GPS/INS or similar and visual displays at stations
Status: In development
Completion: 2012


Electronic Fare Payment Systems

Description: Ability to pay fares on LRT and BRT (possibly more) using some form of Smartcard technology, machines that take plastic and/or bills
Status: In development, technology not officially chosen
Completion: 2012


Improved CCTV Security at LRT Stations

Description: New and more cameras with better resolution
Status: In development
Completion: 2014


More Information: May 2009 Transit Funding Press Release (http://www.calgarymayor.ca/files/pressreleases/2009/transit_funding_announcement_brochure.pdf)

Continued in post below..

[frinkprof]

FUTURE PROJECTS


Note: all maps below from http://www.calgarytransit.com/pdf/ct_lrt_network_plan.pdf


SOUTHEAST LRT

Stations: 18 - 14 at-grade, 4 underground downtown

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/officialselrt.jpg


NORTH CENTRAL LRT

Stations: 8

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/officialnclrt.jpg


8th AVENUE SUBWAY

Stations: Likely 3

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/official8ave.jpg


WEST LRT EXTENSION

Stations: 1 - Aspen Woods

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/officialwest.jpg


SOUTH LRT EXTENSION

Stations: 2 - Silverado, 212 Ave.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/officialsext.jpg


NORTHEAST LRT EXTENSION

Stations: 4 - 96 Ave., Country Hills, 128 Ave., Stoney

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/officialneext.jpg


SYSTEM


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/officialsystem.jpg



RESOURCES


Official Links

Calgary Transit Website (http://www.calgarytransit.com/)

City of Calgary Current LRT Construction Projects (http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_0_395_203_0_47/http%3B/content.calgary.ca/CCA/City+Hall/Business+Units/Transportation+Infrastructure/Construction+Projects/LRT/LRT.htm)

West LRT Project (http://www.westlrt.ca/)

Calgary Transit Twitter (http://twitter.com/CalgaryTransit)

Calgary Transit LRT Network Plan (http://www.calgarytransit.com/pdf/ct_lrt_network_plan.pdf)

May 2009 Transit Funding Press Release (http://www.calgarymayor.ca/files/pressreleases/2009/transit_funding_announcement_brochure.pdf)


Other Links

Canadian Public Transit Discussion Board (http://www.cptdb.ca/)

CPTDB Wiki (http://www.cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Calgary_Transit) - Bus and LRV fleet inventory and information

LRT in Calgary (http://members.shaw.ca/lrtincalgary) - SkyscraperPage Forum contributer srperrycgy's website. Pictures, information, current maps, future maps and speculation

Bus Drawings (http://www.busdrawings.com/Transit/alberta/calgary/index.htm) - Transit operator and CPTDB contributer Peter McLaughlin's Bus Drawings website. Large stockpile of bus and LRV photos

Kevin's Bus and Rail (http://www.kevinsbusrail.com/calgary_transit_pictures.html) - CPTDB contributer Kevin Lo's website. More bus and LRV pictures

Beltliner Blog (http://beltliner.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-04-25T14%3A16%3A00-06%3A00&max-results=7)- SkyscraperPage Forum contributer Beltliner's blog. Proposal for LRT and Streetcar infrastructure buildout and other speculation

GrowsmaRT.ca (http://www.growsmart.ca/) - Third party website advocating alternate alignment to North Central LRT route

Station Construction Information Graph (http://members.shaw.ca/LRTinCalgary/StationConstructionInfo.pdf) - Courtesy Steve Perry



Disclaimer: I do not work for Calgary Transit or the City of Calgary.

[CUG]

What would you like to talk about, it seems you've detailed most of that well.. It's going to be a pretty dense discussion :)

[HungryJack]

I was neighbors with Kevin Lo growing up.

Carry on...

[J-D]

I've never understood why the trains stop running before the bars close. :(

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by CUG
What would you like to talk about, it seems you've detailed most of that well.. It's going to be a pretty dense discussion :) As per the first post: Information, questions, current issues, pros, cons, ideas, future plans, past experiences, whatever.

So in other words, the idea behind the thread is to be a catch-all for transit discussion as issues or ideas come up. I included the information database because there's usually a new thread here every few weeks or months and a lot of the information that had been posted in older threads gets lost or forgotten and then gets rehashed, with varying accuracy, in the new thread.

It's also a place to put new information or articles as they come up, which I'll actually do below, since there was a good article in the Herald today.

[frinkprof]

Good and thorough article on the C-Train in today's Herald.


Calgary's C-train at 30

Skepticism met people-mover plan

By Jason Markusoff, Calgary Herald January 15, 2011 9:00 AM

Crammed. Feels like a sauna. Winter coats, wool scarves and coffee breath emit more heat.

Newspaper pages rustle loudly. Smartphone buzzes. Can't answer it, or even scratch an elbow, without getting five people to move one step over.

Finally, the doors slide open and the rats spill out into the concrete canyon. Free from the C-Train, and off to another holding cell known as the office cubicle.

Cities with light-rail systems all over North America experience varying degrees of the morning rush, but for the past 30 years, only few know the morning crush like users of Calgary's busy system.

Those who have long boasted that it's the busiest LRT system in the continent overlook the heavier ridership of the Metrorrey system in Monterrey, Mexico. But second ranking is little to be ashamed of in a city notorious for the car's dominance.

[...]

It would roll along the roads, just like the streetcars Calgary had scrapped, rather than the big eastern cities' full-fledged subway systems? When Edmonton's system opened in time for the 1978 Commonwealth Games with stations smartly burrowed underneath its downtown?

But flash forward to the present, when Calgary's 38-station system boasts 268,000 riders on an average weekday and Edmonton's newly expanded 15-stop LRT moves around 74,000 people daily.

Staying above-ground let Cowtown do more by spending less building the initial 13-kilometre Anderson-to-downtown stretch for $175 million, opening in May 1981. By contrast, the 1980s extension of the Edmonton LRT by less than two kilometres and three downtown subway stations cost $160 million.

[...]

New cars finally have air conditioning -- the same new-style cars Edmonton has, Mandryk notes -- and platforms this year will tell riders how many more minutes they have to wait. That might bode for a slower system, but not necessarily a less successful system. North America's No. 1 LRT system in Monterrey runs sleek-looking cars on lines that are fully underground or elevated, not on the road like some lowly streetcar.

And for those wary of that morning crush, stay tuned for longer, four-car trains. In 2014.

Link to rest of article (http://www.calgaryherald.com/Calgary+train/4113831/story.html)

The C-Train turns 30 on May 25th, 2011

To accompany the above article, here is a Calgary Herald video of Mayor Nenshi speaking about the future of the C-Train, with emphasis on the north-central line and airport service:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/videos/index.html?v=1744823177#/Calgary-Mayor-Naheed-Nenshi/4Zx6JxEaSay_I_qnNOGSanHiQRZZtXUT

[J-D]

wtodDMe8als

[kaput]

.

[frinkprof]

^Yes. It will be open this coming Friday the 21st.

That leaves the following left before the 7th Avenue work is compete:

- Complete both platforms at City Hall (should be done later this year)

- Removal of Olympic Plaza Station (will be done shortly after City Hall opens)

- Extend Centre Street Station (shouldn't take long, and probably won't start until City Hall is done)

- Complete dual platforms at 11th Street West (being done as part of WestLRT)

- Remove 10th Street West Station

[Disoblige]

Expansion, I love it.

It will also mean less wait times in the core area! :clap:

[kaput]

.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I am just glad I rarely have to take public transit.

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by kaput
Will the new station at 11 street still fall within the free fare zone? Good question. I don't think I've seen anything official on it, but I would have to assume so.

[Benny]

Originally posted by J-D
I've never understood why the trains stop running before the bars close. :(


THIS!

I don't really care about the bus not running that late, but holy fuck is it ever awful trying to get a cab late at night. Not to mention I've had to leave a bunch of concerts at the Dome early because the last train is about to come. What the hell kinda supposed "World Class City" doesn't have a 24 hour train line?

[nutella]

Why did they choose to have the North Central LRT end at the zoo? At least that's what it looks like to me on the map. It makes absolutely no sense to me at all. You may as well call it the North Central East LRT since it kinda veers off to the east.

People that take the 301, 3, and the express buses that go from the north to downtown and beyond will most likely still continue taking the buses.

If your stop is downtown and/or you need to transfer downtown - why would you take the North Central? That's an extra transfer you would have to do. Get off at the zoo, try to board the packed City Centre train to get downtown, only to have to transfer again.

But hey it's great for families going to the zoo.

[Cos]

^^ I can answer part of that. The original plan was to bury up center street and come north out of SAIT. They cant figure out a way to do it without raising the road or burying the line.

This is a cheaper and viable option. They also figure they can run east-west shuttle buses for the middle communities and reduce some of the north-south traffic.

[Oz-]

West LRT observation. The yellow track thing really lost steam in December. The big supports are still being worked on, while the yellow thing sits idle. I wonder how behind schedule it is?

My other questions are around the opening of 33rd street at Bow Trail - when?

The stretch of Bow Trail west between Crowchild and 24th St and when will it be shifted over to the new permanent alignment?

[4DoorGTZ]

I'd be surprised if that last pic gets fulfilled in my lifetime. And by then the city will need much more, thats what we seem to be getting, plan today for what we need today, then build it in 25yrs when we then need so much more.

-But I'm not a transit user anymore, only for flames games since leaving school.

[nutella]

Sometimes cheaper isn't better...

I see what you're saying and I truly don't expect them to place the LRT line right on Centre Street

Maybe there are plans to have the North Central LRT line continue past the zoo, into downtown and/or beyond? If so then I can definitely see the potential for this line

[Cos]

Originally posted by nutella
Sometimes cheaper isn't better...

I see what you're saying and I truly don't expect them to place the LRT line right on Centre Street

Maybe there are plans to have the North Central LRT line continue past the zoo, into downtown and/or beyond? If so then I can definitely see the potential for this line

There was a story on it but it was something in the billions just to bury the road/line. Then you have to build the infrastructure. Another chance would be to go up 14th street off SAIT but you would have to do something to the winterclub and police station.

Also I never said the cheaper way was better, however I am not into paying 1.4 billion dollars (if I remember the actual cost) for a line to my front door.

[adam c]

looking at the final outcome they should have some kind of ring train system or else downtown will become even more of a cluster fuck with all the trains going through it

[nutella]

yeah...no to 1.4 billion or anything close to that >_>

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by Benny



THIS!

I don't really care about the bus not running that late, but holy fuck is it ever awful trying to get a cab late at night. Not to mention I've had to leave a bunch of concerts at the Dome early because the last train is about to come. What the hell kinda supposed "World Class City" doesn't have a 24 hour train line? Well for starters, Paris, London, Toronto and several others. There are some that do though. New York runs some of the main lines 24 hours, while many shut down. Amsterdam has some lines that are 24 hours, etc.

In the cases of Paris, London, Toronto, etc. that don't, there are often all-night buses that take over and run the same routes as the subways. The main reasons for shutting down lines for a few hours at night is to perform track and vehicle maintenance (this happens in Calgary too), as well as to preserve the budgeted transit hours for when they are more needed during peak periods during the day.

Keep in mind that these are cities that are several times the size of Calgary as well.

Al that said, there has been musings about it. The route 3 (busiest in the system) might be used as a pilot project for 24 hour service in Calgary.

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by nutella
Why did they choose to have the North Central LRT end at the zoo? At least that's what it looks like to me on the map. It makes absolutely no sense to me at all. You may as well call it the North Central East LRT since it kinda veers off to the east.

People that take the 301, 3, and the express buses that go from the north to downtown and beyond will most likely still continue taking the buses.

If your stop is downtown and/or you need to transfer downtown - why would you take the North Central? That's an extra transfer you would have to do. Get off at the zoo, try to board the packed City Centre train to get downtown, only to have to transfer again.

But hey it's great for families going to the zoo. Where it appears to end at the zoo, it is actually designed to go all the way downtown, sharing track with the existing NE LRT line.

For the record, there is significant opposition to the planned routing of the North Central line, including from Mayor Nenshi. He actually mentions this in the video I posted above (the post with the Herald article). I personally don't like the planned north central routing either.

[frinkprof]

Double post.

[TimG]

Fares are my biggest beef.

I only take the train and I have to pay $90/month.

CT needs to impliment train-only, bus-only, and all inclusive passes for those of us who only take the train.

[nutella]

Originally posted by frinkprof
Where it appears to end at the zoo, it is actually designed to go all the way downtown, sharing track with the existing NE LRT line.

For the record, there is significant opposition to the planned routing of the North Central line, including from Mayor Nenshi. He actually mentions this in the video I posted above (the post with the Herald article). I personally don't like the planned north central routing either.

Well that's a relief to hear but then the other issue is the congestion of trains downtown as adam c pointed out

Are there any plans to scrap the "honor system" or at least try to reclaim the lost revenue generated by people who don't pay?

I've gone to Chicago a few times and I'm always amazed at how clean their trains are. No one gets onto the platform without paying. Which means less bums riding the trains. And there's always a security guard at each station (at least during the day).

I know there will be opposition from people who will be adamant that the free fare zone be kept but couldn't a compromise be in order? Swipe the smart card to get in and swipe the smart card to get out? If the system sees that you're still within the free fare zone, then it doesn't deduct the $ from the card.

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by nutella


Well that's a relief to hear but then the other issue is the congestion of trains downtown as adam c pointed outYeah. This is but one of the reasons I don't like the proposed routing for the north central line. Basically the north central line sharing track with the northeast line will re-create the same problem that the 8th Avenue Subway will solve. With the subway, the northwest and south lines will no longer use 7th Avenue, leaving that corridor to be used exclusively by the northeast and west lines. Then once the north-central line (as proposed) is added, the same problem occurs.

Right now 7th Avenue is at capacity due to the 2 lines sharing that track.




Originally posted by nutella
Are there any plans to scrap the "honor system" or at least try to reclaim the lost revenue generated by people who don't pay?

I've gone to Chicago a few times and I'm always amazed at how clean their trains are. No one gets onto the platform without paying. Which means less bums riding the trains. And there's always a security guard at each station (at least during the day).

I know there will be opposition from people who will be adamant that the free fare zone be kept but couldn't a compromise be in order? Swipe the smart card to get in and swipe the smart card to get out? If the system sees that you're still within the free fare zone, then it doesn't deduct the $ from the card. No plans as far as I'm aware. The thing is that it is a numbers game and any increase of fare enforcement past a certain point (in the name of reclaiming evaded fares) will cost more than the fares being reclaimed. There's been studies on this (not specific to Calgary, but the same principles would be involved, with similar conclusions). Labour (officers or attendants) is expensive and the philosophy on station design in Calgary dictates that turnstiles aren't in the offing without significant retrofitting or overhauls to their layout and design. Fare evasion still occurs in systems with turnstiles anyway.

I can't speak for Chicago, but my guess would be that the volumes they carry makes the numbers more favorable for having station attendants. The other element to consider is the likely higher occurrence of violent crime there, meaning that recouping otherwise lost fares isn't the complete endgame there.

Regarding the fare-free zone, I can see both sides to the issue, and I don't have a strong opinion either way. I really don't think it will be scrapped anytime soon though.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by frinkprof
NORTH CENTRAL LRT

Stations: 8

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/officialnclrt.jpg

According to this, they're either going straight under, over, or through my house between 64 and 96. Knowing CT it's going through because they don't build under/overground unless absolutely necessary

Also, wtf is aurora?

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by jwslam


According to this, they're either going straight under, over, or through my house between 64 and 96.

Also, wtf is aurora? While I don't know for sure, I highly doubt it. It's just a matter of the scale of the line represented on the map. It is slated to go up the Nose Creek corridor on the west side of Deerfoot Trail, which I assume is just to the east of your house.

Aurora is the name of an industrial/business park.

[snoop101]

Im also happy that I dont take the Ctrain to much.

I do have to say there are some things that bother me a lot.

First the city seems against the environment because everything they do goes against people taking transit.

Second is fact there really is no times for the trains. They come and go when they want. They say 5 min but start their 15 min runs well before the switch over time.

Third I hate the way they dont have a announcement at the end of the lines. I live in Somerset and only once in a blue moon the operator will say "all aboard". Usually its once you get close they just take off.

[frinkprof]

Another good and thorough article in today's Herald about the future of the C-Train. I guess they must be doing some sort of series on it.


Six-legged LRT with 45 new stations slated for Calgary

70-km addition in next 30 years to offer airport, southeast links

By Jason Markusoff, Calgary Herald January 16, 2011 7:34 AM

In its first three decades, the C-Train has spread out its light-rail tendrils 46 kilometres.

With three more decades' worth of expansions essentially mapped out, it stands to stretch out more than 70 additional kilometres, becoming a six-legged monster with more than 45 new stations.

And yes, that includes an airport LRT stop.

Most plans are still many years, engineering studies and billions of dollars away.

"As much as we love the C-Train -- and we do -- there are two drawbacks with C-Train: it's very expensive and it's very inflexible, so we have to be really darn sure when we lay those tracks that's exactly the right thing to do," Mayor Naheed Nenshi says.

"And we have to weigh that against other public transit priorities."

[...]

But with the fullest year of West LRT construction ahead, as well as an imminent council decision on how fast the southeast line gets built and a major consultation on where another train route should go, the C-Train's 30th-anniversary year will be a pivotal one in its history. Here's a look at the C-Train now and into the future:

[...]

Until recently, the city deemed the subway line a necessity this decade, a priority before even the southeast LRT.

McKendrick now says the shift to four-car trains will greatly forestall the plan, although a north-central alignment along Nose Creek would also use the 7th Avenue corridor and hasten the subway dig's timeline.

[...]

LRT Advances

Mid-2011 -¦ Digital displays will be erected at C-Train stations alerting riders when the next three trains will arrive;

-¦ Fare machines at stations that allow credit-card use.

2012 - -Smart-card fare payment begins;

-¦ West LRT opens to 69th Street.

2014 -¦ Four-car trains on Tuscany-Somerset line.

Link to rest of the article (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/legged+with+stations+slated+Calgary/4116006/story.html#ixzz1BDubdZEG)

[speedog]

North LRT - will be a long time coming. Underground on Centre Street would make the most sense as it would serve the communities best up to Beddington Trail. Anything run on Nose Creek seems almost pointless as those stations would kind of be in a no man's land making them far enough away from most commuters who might otherwise walk to a Centre Street based system.

[frinkprof]

Since the north central route has been brought up by a few people, here's a relevant excerpt from the article I posted above.


This spring, Calgary Transit will ask residents for their opinion in a public consultation that will propose three optional alignments: along Nose Creek, down Edmonton Trail, or along Centre Street, which is already dominated by buses.

[ZenOps]

Waste of money to expand rail right now.

The money is being spent on expanding the stations so that a 4th car can be used. This will potentially alleviate congestion maybe 15% (no not 25%, as logical as that might sound)

For the future: The south leg is much cheaper to expand than the other legs because it parallels the railway tracks laid over a hundred years ago. The ground has already been compacted, surveyed, and working for traincars that are easily 20x the weight of the LRT (meaning little extra cost other than the actual laying of the track)

$1.4 billion is a high number for one station and section of track, $600 million is a better number for the South. A north section might be more like $750 million.

[speedog]

Originally posted by ZenOps
For the future: The south leg is much cheaper to expand than the other legs because it parallels the railway tracks laid over a hundred years ago. The ground has already been compacted, surveyed, and working for traincars that are easily 20x the weight of the LRT (meaning little extra cost other than the actual laying of the track) Since when? 100 years ago they didn't compact anything - they just created a railroad bed by scraping up a bit of soil from the surrounding area to elevate the rail bed just a bit before putting down some aggregate, ties and rails. Certainly, the CPR did not waste their time compacting anything adjacent to the working rails because it was a waste of their time and money and if one looks hard enough, the south LRT follows along side of the CPR right of way, but certainly is not on top of any previously compacted rail bed as most of the original line going south out of Calgary was single track.

[KrisYYC]

frinkprof have you heard anything about the start up dates of the new bus routes to/from the airport?

[flipstah]

Is it still costly to use the undergound city tunnels?

[shynepho]

For anyone that cares, what do you guys think of the Westwinds LRT station?

I think thats got to be the worst station in the world. Design/construction everything about it. I'm guessing Martindale and Saddleridge will be even worse.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by speedog
Since when? 100 years ago they didn't compact anything - they just created a railroad bed by scraping up a bit of soil from the surrounding area to elevate the rail bed just a bit before putting down some aggregate, ties and rails. Certainly, the CPR did not waste their time compacting anything adjacent to the working rails because it was a waste of their time and money and if one looks hard enough, the south LRT follows along side of the CPR right of way, but certainly is not on top of any previously compacted rail bed as most of the original line going south out of Calgary was single track.

You're quoting the guy who thinks humans can't build underground tunnels for mass transit near water, we'd all ask for you to stop doing so.

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by speedog
Since when? 100 years ago they didn't compact anything - they just created a railroad bed by scraping up a bit of soil from the surrounding area to elevate the rail bed just a bit before putting down some aggregate, ties and rails. Certainly, the CPR did not waste their time compacting anything adjacent to the working rails because it was a waste of their time and money and if one looks hard enough, the south LRT follows along side of the CPR right of way, but certainly is not on top of any previously compacted rail bed as most of the original line going south out of Calgary was single track.

I'm pretty sure, that they simply used a train-engine with roller wheels instead of thin rail wheels. They could be loaded with even more weight on top than a standard rail engine, as the roller can take much more weight and they are not towing any railcars.

When rail sections were finished, they re-fitted them with standard rail wheels, and of course took off the weights.

But they did supposedly do a very wide path with them, to make sure the surrounding soil would not collapse.

A standard railcar, might be 35 tons or so (up to 43 tons I think), and they are sometimes chained 100 long.

Ctrain is exact same weight per car:

http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/technical_information.html

But they chain only three, which does not put anywhere near as much stress as one that is 100 long. Light transit C-train lines can be built to much more lax specifications becase there is so little stress with only three cars. Still, its not cheap by any means.

Details are very sketchy from that era, But I would tend to believe a 150 ton modified solid roller engine would have compacted the area before the lines were laid.

And to add: I don't think the C-train lines were pre-compacted (too much underground infrastructure at time of construction). Thats probably why they are so wobbly, lol.

[Maxt]

Calgary transit seems to have a one track mind, no pun intended.
It never goes beyond providing just straight transit service, and why ridership is mainly only peak worker moving time period based.
In other major cities that I have used transit in, the stations are integrated into major department stores, or the stations themselves are underground shopping malls, owned and maintained by the transit system. In some the central station has so much shopping and restaurants, the station itself draws ridership, and the lines run at somewhat full ridership all the time, instead of just being packed for the worker transportation.
This would make sense to do in Calgary, giving our dismal climate for 6 months or so out of the year.
The minds at CT put the station always a good walk from the infrastructure, when really it should be intertwined right within it.. Like the stampede station, why doesn't it deliver people to within a conditioned concourse to the stampede/saddledome?. Another is Mcmahon, how about downtown, build the damn stations into the bases of the buildings.
I suppose the argument could be said if thats done, its hard to make adjustments to the train infrastructure down the road, but really, they should be building in 50 year mindsets, not 15-20-25.
Some stations in other cities I have used were built in the 50's and were constructed in size and manner to incorporate growth of not only that line, but lines over top of it. Calgary just seems to not anticipate its growth well, even when the economic writing is on the wall.

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by KrisYYC
frinkprof have you heard anything about the start up dates of the new bus routes to/from the airport? Well the express bus to McKnight-Westwinds Station is supposed to start immediately after Barlow Trail to the airport closes, slated for April 3rd, 2011. The 310 route to/from downtown via Centre Street and 96th Avenue is slated to start in 2012, sometime after the 96th Avenue extension is done.

I actually have this on the first page information too, along with maps. Here's the 2012 airport service map:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/2012ctairport.jpg

[ZenOps]

Also of note: The C-train funds clean energy, wind power.

http://www.welwind.com/ir-news_releases_120908.php

Now normally I would say that $400 million for 200MW of power is on the expensive side, especially considering we are in the middle of coal country, and could probably simply plunk down another coal plant for 1/10th the cost...

But, diversification is never a bad thing. And I don't like sulphur rain.

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by flipstah
Is it still costly to use the undergound city tunnels? Not exactly sure what you mean by this, but if you're referring to any existing underground LRT infrastructure, it is quite limited. All that currently exists is a partial station under City Hall. The bulk of the 8th Avenue Subway, and the entire SE LRT subway would have to be newly constructed. There have been some provisions made by moving some utilities over the years, but that's about it. We'll know more about costs when the (much delayed) subway study comes out with its findings.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Maxt
Calgary transit seems to have a one track mind, no pun intended.
...

With a lot of those stations, particularly in Europe, they were build into existing train stations (in London with Victoria, Paddington, Waterloo etc.; Paris with the Est, Nord and such or Munich with the Hautbanhoff) which were essentially built like airports are today. If Calgary had a giant early 1900s train station downtown its a safe bet that it would be similar to things you see elsewhere. When you play catchup with a transit system, it becomes increasingly utilitarian, but back in the days when they were laying the first railways and subways mass transit was seen as much as a luxury as it was a way to transport as many people from point A to point B as possible.

While some have of course been built later in modern cities, its more the exception than the rule. As I recall Westbrook station was supposed to be part of something big (in addition to the mall). But Calgary is handicapped in the sense that the main line is above ground. Not only does that prevent you from building anything on top, you can't incorporate it into anything either. The fact the only areas where tracks can be used aren't in major attraction type settings also takes a large share of the blame.

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Waste of money to expand rail right now.As opposed to when or to what?


Originally posted by ZenOps
The money is being spent on expanding the stations so that a 4th car can be used. This will potentially alleviate congestion maybe 15% (no not 25%, as logical as that might sound)33% is the figure that might sound logical. The existing maximum train length is 3 LRVs. Extending that by 1 LRV is a theoretical increase of a third, or ~33%. I agree that the actual realized increase won't be a full third, but it will probably be pretty close to that in full 4 LRV operation.


Originally posted by ZenOps
For the future: The south leg is much cheaper to expand than the other legs because it parallels the railway tracks laid over a hundred years ago. The ground has already been compacted, surveyed, and working for traincars that are easily 20x the weight of the LRT (meaning little extra cost other than the actual laying of the track)All of the future extensions of current lines (northeast, west, northwest, and south) have reserved right of way and reserved space for station locations. The only phase of construction that the supposedly packed right of way might help with is earthworks. If that's the case, and all other things being equal, it might end up being 5% cheaper.


Originally posted by ZenOps
$1.4 billion is a high number for one station and section of trackI agree. Where are you getting these numbers from though? There is no report of any project of this sort for this amount of money.


Originally posted by ZenOps
$600 million is a better number for the South. A north section might be more like $750 million. I'm really not sure what exactly you're referring to here, especially with the lead-in with the questionable $1.4 Billion figure as a comparison. However, the south LRT extension to 210th Avenue, if that is what you are referring to won't cost anywhere near $600M in 2011 dollars. As a comparable, the northeast extension to Saddletown, which also includes 2 staitons, is budgeted at ~$84M.

I also don't know exactly what you're referring to as "a north section," but if you're referring to the north central line, the entire line all the way to Stoney Trail, even using the Nose Creek corridor, will likely be more than $750M in 2011 dollars.

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by shynepho
For anyone that cares, what do you guys think of the Westwinds LRT station?

I think thats got to be the worst station in the world. Design/construction everything about it. I'm guessing Martindale and Saddleridge will be even worse. Not my favourite for sure. I don't think it functions particularly well as the terminus station, and I think Saddletown station will work better for that. Access to and from the platform is a little strange in my opinion with McKnight-Westwinds. The walk to/from the bus loop and park and ride area is unnecessarily long and I think it could have been better thought out. I wouldn't call it absolutely terrible though.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by kertejud2


With a lot of those stations, particularly in Europe, they were build into existing train stations (in London with Victoria, Paddington, Waterloo etc.; Paris with the Est, Nord and such or Munich with the Hautbanhoff) which were essentially built like airports are today. If Calgary had a giant early 1900s train station downtown its a safe bet that it would be similar to things you see elsewhere. When you play catchup with a transit system, it becomes increasingly utilitarian, but back in the days when they were laying the first railways and subways mass transit was seen as much as a luxury as it was a way to transport as many people from point A to point B as possible.

While some have of course been built later in modern cities, its more the exception than the rule. As I recall Westbrook station was supposed to be part of something big (in addition to the mall). But Calgary is handicapped in the sense that the main line is above ground. Not only does that prevent you from building anything on top, you can't incorporate it into anything either. The fact the only areas where tracks can be used aren't in major attraction type settings also takes a large share of the blame.
I agree with most of that. However lets look at the stampede station in particular, that is one where it would have made a lot more sense to integrate into as you call them, attractions. What makes little sense is why they didn't do everything possible to keep it underground for a few hundred meters more and totally avoid the level crossing at Mcleod and cemetery hill . That whole stretch is just a perfect example of poor/short term planning somewhat typical of Calgary it seems. One has to realize that being that our transit system is such a recent development, there is little excuse for not looking at older cities as a guide on how it should be done in the first place. I have observed some above ground integration in other systems, I cannot see CT pulling off that level of sophisticated engineering and making it last.
Many of the original lines in foreign cities, I have noted are very deep underground, like 80-100 feet, leaving room for many levels of trains overtop. Someone had their thinking caps on there 50 years ago, even with bullet train expansion, they still havent reached the surface at some stations.

Edit : BTW Calgary did have a major downtown train station for quite some time,it was last cut by VIA.

[J-D]

^ (to frinkprofs post a bit up)

Maximum PRACTICAL single direction capacity at design capacity of 162 pass./car and 2 min. headway:
3-car train (present) 14,580
4-car train (future) 19,440

Maximum THEORETICAL single direction capacity (pass./hr/dir) at 256 pass./car and 2 min. headway:
3-car train 23,040
4-car train 30,720

These are both allotting for the 33% figure, I'm not sure how that will play out in actuality.

I'm curious if there will be any traffic hindrances with four-car trains. For example, are there any instances in which a train will be unable to cross an intersection while another train is waiting there because of the added length?

[l/l/rX]

Donno if this has been mentioned or not already, but what do you guys think of the new trains?! They're soo spacious i love them! reminds me of asia.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Maxt

I agree with most of that. However lets look at the stampede station in particular, that is one where it would have made a lot more sense to integrate into as you call them, attractions. What makes little sense is why they didn't do everything possible to keep it underground for a few hundred meters more and totally avoid the level crossing at Mcleod and cemetery hill .

Yeah that is definitely a stupid intersection that didn't need to be that way. As I recall there are plans to have that whole stretch underground but there are so many factors, part of which was whether or not a new arena for the Flames would be there, in which case the Erlton and Vic Park Stations would be eliminated and a single 'Stampede' station at the bottom of the arena complex would exist. As far as I know the arena wont be there anymore but the plans for a full underground without it still exist.

A lot could be done with a Stampede Station, but the economics nor political (or social) will is there sadly.


That whole stretch is just a perfect example of poor/short term planning somewhat typical of Calgary it seems. One has to realize that being that our transit system is such a recent development, there is little excuse for not looking at older cities as a guide on how it should be done in the first place. I have observed some above ground integration in other systems, I cannot see CT pulling off that level of sophisticated engineering and making it last.

They were plagued by cost and time. I think if it was economically feasible Calgary would have a Paris-like system with stops all over the place. Instead the budget only allowed for a half-assing a plan that was already kind of shitty.


Many of the original lines in foreign cities, I have noted are very deep underground, like 80-100 feet, leaving room for many levels of trains overtop. Someone had their thinking caps on there 50 years ago, even with bullet train expansion, they still havent reached the surface at some stations.

Back then the costs allowed them to think "how can we do this right" instead of "how can we do this". They built deep to avoid the noise and realized later what it allowed them to do. Its easy to forget just how deep you're going in some of these stations, but sadly no city in North America will see anything like it.


Edit : BTW Calgary did have a major downtown train station for quite some time,it was last cut by VIA.

Well I'll be damned.

[frinkprof]

Sorry, had to break up your post into some paragraphs first for my own benefit.


Originally posted by Maxt
Calgary transit seems to have a one track mind, no pun intended.

It never goes beyond providing just straight transit service, and why ridership is mainly only peak worker moving time period based.

In other major cities that I have used transit in, the
stations are integrated into major department stores, or the stations themselves are underground shopping malls, owned and maintained by the transit system. In some the central station has so much shopping and restaurants, the station itself draws ridership, and the lines run at somewhat full ridership all the time, instead of just being packed for the worker transportation.

This would make sense to do in Calgary, giving our dismal climate for 6 months or so out of the year.

The minds at CT put the station always a good walk from the infrastructure, when really it should be intertwined right within it.. Like the stampede station, why doesn't it deliver people to within a conditioned concourse to the stampede/saddledome?. Another is Mcmahon, how about downtown, build the damn stations into the bases of the buildings.

I suppose the argument could be said if thats done, its hard to make adjustments to the train infrastructure down the road, but really, they should be building in 50 year mindsets, not 15-20-25.

Some stations in other cities I have used were built in the 50's and were constructed in size and manner to incorporate growth of not only that line, but lines over top of it. Calgary just seems to not anticipate its growth well, even when the economic writing is on the wall. This isn't far off the mark in the sense that it highlights the necessary and oft-neglected (in North America at least) link between land use and transportation. Thus, the discrepancy is as much a fault of land use planning as transportation planning. The two need to be linked and consider the other much more than they have. This is of course in addition to the issues brought up above by kertejud2.

On the assumption that the "other cities" you are referring to may include London, New York, Chicago, Paris, Tokyo, Seoul, and the like, it is important to mention a couple of things:

1. Calgary metro has just over 1 million people. Most cities that have well-developed rail transit systems are at least double or more the size of Calgary. Seoul is about 20 times the size. This is important because the higher populations necessitate an appropriately higher scale of infrastructure capacity and development. Further, the more populous cities have access to a higher scale of funding and resources than is available to Calgary.

2. Calgary's first rail infrastructure has been in place just shy of 30 years. The other cities I mention above, and those categorically similar, have been big cities for decades or even centuries longer than Calgary has, and also had the benefit of being large cities when constructing rail transit infrastructure cost a fraction of what it does now (even accounting for inflation). This was due to much cheaper labour, materials, and lower construction standards (little environmental considerations, quality assurance, etc.).

All that said, the sort of link between stations and amenities (what I assume you mean when you say "infrastructure") is a matter of time in some cases. There are plans for transit-oriented development nodes at many stations including Brentwood, Chinook and Westbrook (which kertejud2 refers to). The 8th Avenue Subway will do a better job of this when it is built, and even the 7th Avenue refurbishment has seen the integration of shops/amenities and stations, particularly with the Core shopping centre and the new 3rd Street West Station.

Since kertejud2 mentioned it, here is a rendering of the Westbrook Station, which will have its entrance built directly into a 4 storey mixed use building with retail and office.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/frinkprof/Westbrooknorth.jpg


Originally posted by Maxt
Calgary just seems to not anticipate its growth well, even when the economic writing is on the wall. Absolutely. To be fair, this goes well beyond just transit though. Calgary's boom/bust economy and unprecedented growth is poorly anticipated when it comes to almost everything. People over-extend themselves and get financially ruined, companies make layoffs then hire the same people back a year later, look at all the stalled condo projects and half-built houses, etc.

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by J-D
^ (to frinkprofs post a bit up)

Maximum PRACTICAL single direction capacity at design capacity of 162 pass./car and 2 min. headway:
3-car train (present) 14,580
4-car train (future) 19,440

Maximum THEORETICAL single direction capacity (pass./hr/dir) at 256 pass./car and 2 min. headway:
3-car train 23,040
4-car train 30,720

These are both allotting for the 33% figure, I'm not sure how that will play out in actuality.

I'm curious if there will be any traffic hindrances with four-car trains. For example, are there any instances in which a train will be unable to cross an intersection while another train is waiting there because of the added length? Not sure where you got those numbers from. I'd be interested in seeing the source.

Regarding traffic hinderances, the 7th Avenue refurbishment project has attempted to take these into account. Some stations were moved and rebuilt a block one direction or the other. For instance, both 8th and 7th Street West stations were moved a block to the east. This was done for one of two reasons:

1. The original station location was on a block that couldn't fit a 4 car platform (this was the case for 8th Street West)

2. To get a better configuration of stations relative to traffic lights, other stations, and the switches at either end of 7th Avenue to avoid potential train traffic backups as much as possible.

There will be a few hiccups every now and then to be sure, but the new configuration along 7th Avenue is supposed to be better for 4 LRV train operation.

Outside 7th Avenue, I can't envision where the 4th LRV will create additional issues.

[Canmorite]

The west LRT STILL has at-ground crossings? Come on :rofl:

The crossing at Macleod/25th avenue is TERRIBLE. Why build more of these?

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by Canmorite
The west LRT STILL has at-ground crossings? Come on :rofl:

The crossing at Macleod/25th avenue is TERRIBLE. Why build more of these? All the at-grade crossings along the West LRT are of roads that were planned from the outset (when the roads were designed) to be crossed by a rapid transit line. An example is Costello Blvd.

26th and maybe 47th Streets might be the exceptions to that, but are both low-volume roads.

Calgary's brand of LRT will always have a few at-grade crossings. The Southeast LRT will have them too in certain areas.

[J-D]

Originally posted by frinkprof
Not sure where you got those numbers from. I'd be interested in seeing the source.

Regarding traffic hinderances, the 7th Avenue refurbishment project has attempted to take these into account. Some stations were moved and rebuilt a block one direction or the other. For instance, both 8th and 7th Street West stations were moved a block to the east. This was done for one of two reasons:

1. The original station location was on a block that couldn't fit a 4 car platform (this was the case for 8th Street West)

2. To get a better configuration of stations relative to traffic lights, other stations, and the switches at either end of 7th Avenue to avoid potential train traffic backups as much as possible.

There will be a few hiccups every now and then to be sure, but the new configuration along 7th Avenue is supposed to be better for 4 LRV train operation.

Outside 7th Avenue, I can't envision where the 4th LRV will create additional issues.

Straight from the CT website - they could very well be outdated?

http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/technical_information.html

[desi112]

whats teh deal with theSE line?

[kenny]

Originally posted by Maxt
The minds at CT put the station always a good walk from the infrastructure, when really it should be intertwined right within it.. Like the stampede station, why doesn't it deliver people to within a conditioned concourse to the stampede/saddledome?. Another is Mcmahon, how about downtown, build the damn stations into the bases of the buildings.

I read that Calgary Transit originally wanted the University station to actually be on campus underground, but the powers that be (at UofC I assume) nixed that idea and it ran along Crowchild instead.

Useless fact: The big arch at U of C used to run across Crowchild as a pedestrian bridge, but they had to move it to make way for the LRT line.

[CapnCrunch]

Does anyone know of any resources into regards of train stations and property values?

My house in Rocky Ridge backs onto Crowchild right behind the planned Rocky Ridge/Tuscanny station. I'm on 0.6 of an acre. Just curious whether I'm in for a bump in value or a drop.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch
Does anyone know of any resources into regards of train stations and property values?

My house in Rocky Ridge backs onto Crowchild right behind the planned Rocky Ridge/Tuscanny station. I'm on 0.6 of an acre. Just curious whether I'm in for a bump in value or a drop.

Huge drop. Look at any of the properties beside a train station and they're usually crap after a short time. Easy access by drug dealers, homeless etc.. means more crime, and accordingly lower property values.

Or I could just be talking out of my ass here. :)

[sputnik]

Nothing would be worse than being able to quickly walk to a train station.

I predict that the back fence of his house would be used to construct homeless shanty/tent villages within days of the LRT being completed.

[TimG]

i'd be more concerned with hearing the crossing bells every few minutes than shady people in your backyard.

edit:

if your house already backs onto crowchild, i guess you're not going to be concerned about noise.

[ZenOps]

Residential within three blocks or so - decrease in residential value.

Commercial within three blocks or so - possible strong increase in value.

Residential past five blocks or so - possible increase in value.

Given a scale of about a million people. Five million or so - expand the zones.

[CapnCrunch]

Im thinking more along the line as selling to a high density residential developer. My house and 3 others are zoned as urban reserve due to the citys plan to have high density residential surrounding the stations.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by codetrap


Huge drop. Look at any of the properties beside a train station and they're usually crap after a short time. Easy access by drug dealers, homeless etc.. means more crime, and accordingly lower property values.

Or I could just be talking out of my ass here. :)

http://mls.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=10133670&PidKey=-675637706

Lol, 600,000 condos? I'm not worried about the people traffic here. Sure the hobos and junkies can get here, but why? If you know anything about this area, there is absolutely nothing within 2kms of this station. No liquor stores, no convenience stores, absolutley no commercial anything (unless you like church). You get off the train (this is the absolute last train station that will be built on this leg), and you are in the middle of lots and lots of residential homes.

I'm not trying to argue, just wondering if there are any ways to appraise what my place would be worth to a developer. My lot is easily big enough to fit 10-12 townhomes at about $350-$400,000+/-.

[desi112]

Originally posted by kenny


I read that Calgary Transit originally wanted the University station to actually be on campus underground, but the powers that be (at UofC I assume) nixed that idea and it ran along Crowchild instead.

Useless fact: The big arch at U of C used to run across Crowchild as a pedestrian bridge, but they had to move it to make way for the LRT line.

what big arch?

[Mitsu3000gt]

I'd like to see transit get clean, reliable, and reasonably priced ($90 bus passes for only-train or only-bus users is obscene compared to the level of service offered IMO) before all these expansions happen. Seems like they are putting the cart before the horse big time.

The GPS is great and all, but without increased reliability, people will just be able to see precisely how late the trains/buses are going to be. I guess people will at least know when their bus simply decides not to come at all on a particular day (as I often experienced).

I see all these new trains/buses on order which seems like a good plan, but they are the same ones I see broken down all the time, and the same ones that can't seem the handle Calgary winters. I had just as many huge delays on broken down new trains/buses as I did the older ones.

Anyways in my 13 years of ridership, price has only gone up and service quality and reliability have plummeted. Unless something durastic is being done, I can't really see how all these expansions are going to do anything but make things far more crowded and unpleasant.

IMO all this expansion money should have been put into developing the 8th ave subway. I think that would have by far the greatest impact on rider satisfaction. Traffic would improve in the core as well. Not having to wait 5-10 min to get into downtown would almost be worth it right there. More trains could run without getting backed up as well.

Will all the trains have A/C by this summer? IMO before the trains had A/C, train fare should have been 1/2 or less of what it was in the summer. People would pass out constantly, everyone would be sweating their bags off, and it would stink like a dirty gym bag the entire time. If you were lucky, there were no delays, and you would only have to be on the train for 30 min or so instead of 1hr+.

I complain a lot about transit, but I'd also be the first one to be willing to pay $200/mo+ for a transit pass if we had even somewhat clean and reliable transit. I wouldn't even think twice about it. Calgary Transit is the SOLE reason I now live downtown. I'd much rather live elsewhere but not having to use transit the way it is outweighs pretty much everything else.

I spent some time in Europe this summer, and while I never expect Calgary Transit to get that good, it certainly highlights just how desperately our system needs to be improved.

[adam c]

^^ regardless of the subway downtown there will still be a surface level train, the subway would only be for the somerset - dalhousie route

[kenny]

Originally posted by desi112


what big arch?

The one by the Art Parkade (24th/University Dr), unless its gone now? Haven't been up there in years.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by adam c
^^ regardless of the subway downtown there will still be a surface level train, the subway would only be for the somerset - dalhousie route

That sucks, but better than nothing I guess.

[z24_wheels]

Pretty bulky thread, I didnt read it all. Just wanted to ask; are there any plans or has anyone discussed connecting stations like Crowfoot to Westwinds? Right now it sucks to ride into downtown and ride back up to the NE.

[copynpaste]

What I dont get is how you buy a book of bus tickets and you dont save a penny as if you were to pay the $2.40 each time. So what incentive does that give you? Honestly?

I bought a book today in the first time in like a year and it as $24. I was thinking wtf, I pay $2.40 each time so why did I bother coming here to buy a book?

[Stephen81]

Originally posted by copynpaste
What I dont get is how you buy a book of bus tickets and you dont save a penny as if you were to pay the $2.40 each time. So what incentive does that give you? Honestly?

I bought a book today in the first time in like a year and it as $24. I was thinking wtf, I pay $2.40 each time so why did I bother coming here to buy a book?

i think the fare is $2.75 now so do save a few cents but, yeah, nothing to write home about.

[adam c]

Originally posted by stephen_haxton


i think the fare is $2.75 now so do save a few cents but, yeah, nothing to write home about.

some people might



dearest xuan


todai i bi transit book it tenty four dollar and i save a hole fee dollar and fifty cent, we witch baby, WITCH!

[speedog]

Considering most average transit riders probably work about 21 days a month, the break down would be as such...

Paying cash fare every day @ $2.75 one way equates to $1386.00 a year or $115.50 monthly (average)

Using book of 10 tickets which works out to $2.40 one way equates to $1209.66 a year or $100.80 monthly (average)

Using monthly passes ($90.00) equates to $960.00 a year.


So for someone who is counting their pennies (probably a fair number of transit riders), the difference between paying cash or using a book of 10 tickets regularly could mean the difference of three 4 liter jugs a milk a month - not much to beyond ballers, but still something to some families. Buying a monthly pass puts even more monies into those family budgets.

Myself - I don't use transit any more, but when I did I bought the book of 10 tickets because my schedule was always under 17 days a month on transit and as such, paying cash or using a monthly pass was a money losing venture.

[kaput]

.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by speedog

Using monthly passes ($90.00) equates to $960.00 a year.


And qualifies for tax refund.

Public transit sucks because we live in 2000sqft houses on a 6000sqft lot. It will get a lot better if everyone is packed into 500sqft apartments in 40 stories buildings.

That's the trade off.

We are trying a squeeze a million people on a "Light" Rail Transit system. Of course it sucks. We are outgrowing what Light rail can handle.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Xtrema


And qualifies for tax refund.

$162.

http://www.transitpass.ca/

[frinkprof]

A couple news stories.


Restoring old LRT cars could save Calgary millions


By Richard Cuthbertson, Calgary Herald January 31, 2011 8:00 AM

CALGARY — As the city debates how the initial instalment of provincial transit cash will be spent, a new option is being floated that might salvage a significant number of LRT vehicles heading for retirement, leaving a larger pot of money to develop southeast transit.

Last week, Bombardier Transportation met with a number of council members, and two aldermen say the company pitched the idea of refurbishing old LRT vehicles that are ending their service years.

If the option does prove worthwhile, it could add 15 years to the life of the aging Siemens U2 vehicles, and cost a fraction of the price to purchase new cars.

Bombardier is currently refurbishing some of Edmonton’s LRT vehicles for about $1 million each, according to the two aldermen, although it is acknowledged Calgary cars are more corroded and have seen more use over the years.

Still, even if the cost is 50 per cent higher, it’s worth a close look, says Ald. Shane Keating.

It would be cheaper than buying new vehicles, which would last longer but cost $3.5 million or more.

If five or six vehicles were refurbished every year, the cost could be included in the city budget, allowing more Green Trip provincial transit funds to go to improving rapid transit in the southeast, said Keating.

[...]Link to rest of the article (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Restoring+cars+could+save+Calgary+millions/4193981/story.html#ixzz1CdQeDGbV)


Free fare zone to be extended?

JEREMY NOLAIS
METRO CALGARY
Published: January 31, 2011 5:25 a.m.
Last modified: January 31, 2011 12:28 a.m.

As three Calgary aldermen push to extend the LRT free-fare zone one stop south to Victoria-Stampede station, some local businesses near the northwest line are asking for the same reprieve.

Removing fare requirements for Sunnyside station — the first stop after 7th Avenue on the northwest line — would provide added incentive for shoppers in the nearby Kensington district, said Jonathan Kane, owner of The Naked Leaf.

[...]

But Ald. Ray Jones, who is pitching the Victoria extension along with Alds. Andre Chabot and Diane Colley-Urquhart, said the proposal is meant to aid groups hosting events at the BMO Centre on the Stampede grounds.

[...]Link to rest of the article (http://www.metronews.ca/calgary/local/article/758611--free-fare-zone-to-be-extended)

[Xtrema]

Free fare zone to Stampede make sense if we want more convention business.

Sunnyside, not as much.

As for new car vs refurbish cars, I vote for new cars.

If it take $1.5M to get 15 years and only $3.5M to get 30 years, new cars are better bet since they may cost less to run and maintain. Plus new cars has higher capacity we desperately need.

All level of government are broke. SE is fucked. I don't see anything will get build in the next decade. If you want c-train, don't live there.

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by Xtrema
As for new car vs refurbish cars, I vote for new cars.

If it take $1.5M to get 15 years and only $3.5M to get 30 years, new cars are better bet since they may cost less to run and maintain. Plus new cars has higher capacity we desperately need.Yeah, the big question is "if." Those numbers were speculative. There needs to be a business case made for it comparing one option against the other using the real cost and timeline estimates. I'm honestly not sure where the $3.5M figure for new LRV units came from. The figure has been about $3.9M per unit on the last several orders and I doubt it would go down even on a much larger order.


Originally posted by Xtrema
All level of government are broke. SE is fucked. I don't see anything will get build in the next decade. If you want c-train, don't live there. I disagree. The demand and political will to get it done is strong enough, but you're right that the funding is problematic for the time being. I have big doubts that it will get done with the Green TRIP funding, and I think the City has been barking up the wrong tree on that one. I do think it will get done another way though, with shovels in the ground well before the next ten years are up.

[HuMz]

Has anyone been on the new style cars where the rows face each other? Took the train last friday and vowed to never do it again after seeing how the new cars are going to sit. Unless your sitting beside two people who are below a 150 pounds prepare to completely have your space invaded.

[TimG]

any plans on installing cell phone boosters/repeaters in the tunnel between Earlton and 39th ave?

[adam c]

Originally posted by HuMz
Has anyone been on the new style cars where the rows face each other? Took the train last friday and vowed to never do it again after seeing how the new cars are going to sit. Unless your sitting beside two people who are below a 150 pounds prepare to completely have your space invaded.

how is that any different than any other day during rush hour?

[diamondedge]

Originally posted by adam c


how is that any different than any other day during rush hour?

Difference is you now have people on both sides of you, in your space, whereas before, you would be crushed against the glass/paneling. I would stay at the University longer to get work done so I could travel during an off-peak period. Stretch out and relaxxxxxx.

Frinkprof, when's the scheduled opening of the Martindale NE station?

[frinkprof]

Originally posted by TimG
any plans on installing cell phone boosters/repeaters in the tunnel between Earlton and 39th ave? Not that I know of. Good idea though.


Originally posted by diamondedge
Frinkprof, when's the scheduled opening of the Martindale NE station? I believe the official date is as vague as 2012. I would guess Fall 2012 though, so the last Monday in August would be my guess. Both stations on that extension will open at the same time, Saddletown and Martindale.

[FraserB]

They need to get a better way to clear accidents off the line, forcing 200+ people to stand on the corner of 7th for an indefinite amount of time in -30* weather is not acceptable. If you have to have them stand there, at least make it so you actually had the shuttle buses show up more than one at a time and not every 5 minutes.

No reason to clog up a morning commute for thousands because one retard can't drive. Hook up a tow truck and yank it to the side. Alternately, charge the driver of the at fault vehicle $x per minute they are causing disruption.

[s dime]

Haha, you were there too Fraser! I jumped in a cab...

[FraserB]

Yeah, they dumped us off the train at 7th and 8th, waited on the corner for about 15-20, then they said the trains were running again and to go back to the station.

[Pahnda]

Originally posted by HuMz
...Unless your sitting beside two people who are below a 150 pounds prepare to completely have your space invaded.

That's my only problem with them. I don't think I'm all that big but even my shoulders were much wider than the space allotted for an individual seat... I can't imagine sitting beside two porkers.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by FraserB
No reason to clog up a morning commute for thousands because one retard can't drive. Hook up a tow truck and yank it to the side. Alternately, charge the driver of the at fault vehicle $x per minute they are causing disruption.

That was fucked up this morning. Totally clogged up 10th St.

I had to detour to center which was a shit show too.

The should never extend any lines until they are done sending that downtown portion underground.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I 100% agree they should stop spending money extending anything before they get what they have now working at an acceptable level. They also need to get costs WAY lower unless they are willing to increase quality of service.

Also, it's clear the current trains cannot handle Calgary winters, so I think upgrading old trains is a terrible idea unless doing so somehow completely solves all reliability problems.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Pahnda


That's my only problem with them. I don't think I'm all that big but even my shoulders were much wider than the space allotted for an individual seat... I can't imagine sitting beside two porkers.

They should never use seats in that configuration. It should be changed to bench. Preferably one without any type of fabric for easy hose down.

[rage2]

Originally posted by FraserB
They need to get a better way to clear accidents off the line, forcing 200+ people to stand on the corner of 7th for an indefinite amount of time in -30* weather is not acceptable.
It was only -24.5 when I drove by this morning! :rofl:

I was wondering WTF was going on. Thought my building had a fire drill, that's our usual meeting place when we get those.

[frinkprof]

Here's some interesting news. As has been mentioned before in this thread, Southland Station is the next in line to be upgraded and extended to four-car length. The interesting part is as follows from the Calgary Transit website:


it will be necessary to close the station for a period of time to allow for the removal and replacement of a portion of the existing platform. Calgary Transit will communicate the dates for this station closure at a later date.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/southland_station_20110203.html

Looks like it will have to shut down for as long as it takes to remove part of the platform and replace it so it can be used for service again. Could be a couple or more weeks. We shall see.

More information at the link posted above. Construction starts tomorrow, February 3rd.

[s dime]

Hmm, sitting at southland now, for an indefinite amount of time due to signalling problems? I see the construction blockades. This is the second time in the last week I have sat here for 15+ mins because of signal problems...

[eblend]

Originally posted by Pahnda


That's my only problem with them. I don't think I'm all that big but even my shoulders were much wider than the space allotted for an individual seat... I can't imagine sitting beside two porkers.


Agree, got to try the new train last week and was pretty excited to try it out, that didn't last long when I had to sit crouched forward the whole time, and I am not terribly big, but those seats are definatelly for skinny ass people, should never be individually split, just a long bench would work much better in my opinion.

I have been to a ton of countries where this style of sitting is the norm, including in Japan, China, Singapore ect ect, and those seats are a ton bigger for much smaller people, never had any issues in those countries, so really seems like the seats were reduced to the point where it is easier to just stand.

[TimG]

i noticed that my train this morning had an LED panel at one end showing current time and next stop, but it wasn't updating the next stop.

as an aside: both last night and this morning there were delays on the northbound trains coming from the south.

Can you please make it CT policy for the train operators to at least inform the passengers as to what is going on? Nothing is more frustrating than sitting in a train between stations and not knowing if it's a 5 min delay or something major.