Good places in Calgary to practice winter driving

[tentacles]

Since its still pretty cold outside I've been looking for a large, paved, snow-covered area for practicing driving in slippery conditions, recovering from fishtailing, that kind of thing. I've been to the Market Mall parking lot (after about 1 AM ) but it's a little small.

Do you guys know any other places?

[CUG]

Deerfoot trail, or well, any other street in Calgary.

[2BLUE]

Ghost lake! By far the best place. Track is set out already in slalom, straight away. Racing the R1 out there yesterday

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Damn I want to go out to ghost lake so badly.

[2BLUE]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
Damn I want to go out to ghost lake so badly.

Ripping around in a mall parking lot is asking for trouble. Going to ghost lake is a safe bet. Pull the ebrake at 160 does wonders!!!

[tentacles]

Thanks, Ghost lake looks good. I did a search and it seems there are events that I could get in on too.

http://sascsolo.ca/forums/index.php?showtopic=791

[2BLUE]

You could just go to ghost lake and practice.

Its free and totally safe. (Ice is really thick)

[rage2]

Really? You're allowed to just drive on Ghost Lake and let 'er rip?

edit - haha I guess so. This looks fun.

QWvXIFv_-sI

[2BLUE]

Originally posted by rage2
Really? You're allowed to just drive on Ghost Lake and let 'er rip?

edit - haha I guess so. This looks fun.

QWvXIFv_-sI

Yeppers.

Thats where i race my bike.

There's nothing like doing 100mph on ice!

[VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN]

Is it really thick enough for that? In every spot?

[nobb]

Has there been any winter rallies setup in Ghost Lake yet? I'd only be comfortable driving on Ghost Lake after those rallies take place because then you know the ice has been tested.

[Resurrected RA]

Apparently, Mitsubishi was out there filming commercials last week. The ice is 20" thick, 12" is adequate to support a car.

[rojhero]

Originally posted by tentacles
Thanks, Ghost lake looks good. I did a search and it seems there are events that I could get in on too.

http://sascsolo.ca/forums/index.php?showtopic=791

Based on some really good reviews from last year, this looks to be a great event. I'll be attending with a bunch of friends. Honestly, I can't think of a better way to learn and practice winter driving.

For $25, you can't really lose. According to that link, the coordinator has mentioned the ice is good. 12" is enough for normal passenger cars and it sounds like it may be >20" now especially with all the cold weather.

From Reijo on January 15, 2011:
"The ice is safe for one thing....Mitsubishi was out there shooting a commercial with a fleet of vehicles hauled there with a big car hauler along with an entire film crew.....I'll see about posting a couple of photos I took from a distance (did not want to bother them and I'm sure they did not want people around. In any case they had a fleet of vehicles out there on the ice."

Edit: Haha. I posted too slow.

[Resurrected RA]

Originally posted by rojhero


Based on some really good reviews from last year, this looks to be a great event. I'll be attending with a bunch of friends. Honestly, I can't think of a better way to learn and practice winter driving.

For $25, you can't really lose. According to that link, the coordinator has mentioned the ice is good. 12" is enough for normal passenger cars and it sounds like it may be >20" now especially with all the cold weather.

From Reijo on January 15, 2011:
"The ice is safe for one thing....Mitsubishi was out there shooting a commercial with a fleet of vehicles hauled there with a big car hauler along with an entire film crew.....I'll see about posting a couple of photos I took from a distance (did not want to bother them and I'm sure they did not want people around. In any case they had a fleet of vehicles out there on the ice."

Edit: Haha. I posted too slow.

I totally plagarized Reijo...:facepalm:

[94boosted]

A buddy and I are going to this one this Sunday, who all from Beyond will be going?

[2BLUE]

Been driving on the lake since the end of november with 1 ton truck and 6 bikes in the back of a trailer.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[94boosted]

^ I'm just hoping its not to bumpy or the snow isn't too deep (a little worried about my front lip lol)

[TE4MFaint]

Never heard of this at all, looks absolutely rad!

[jsn]

Originally posted by rojhero


Based on some really good reviews from last year, this looks to be a great event. I'll be attending with a bunch of friends. Honestly, I can't think of a better way to learn and practice winter driving.

For $25, you can't really lose. According to that link, the coordinator has mentioned the ice is good. 12" is enough for normal passenger cars and it sounds like it may be >20" now especially with all the cold weather.

From Reijo on January 15, 2011:
"The ice is safe for one thing....Mitsubishi was out there shooting a commercial with a fleet of vehicles hauled there with a big car hauler along with an entire film crew.....I'll see about posting a couple of photos I took from a distance (did not want to bother them and I'm sure they did not want people around. In any case they had a fleet of vehicles out there on the ice."



Edit: Haha. I posted too slow.

Hey roger,

Is it too late to sign up for that? Sounds like fun.

[Kona9]

Originally posted by TE4MFaint
Never heard of this at all, looks absolutely rad!

If that is your car in your Sig, Than yes for you it would be extra rad!

[nrt_vw]

Originally posted by TE4MFaint
Never heard of this at all, looks absolutely rad!


Yeah i never knew you could do that there. looks like a blast

[msommers]

I'll go if we can still sign up.

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by msommers
I'll go if we can still sign up.

https://www.karelo.com/enter_res.php?&BID=334#Ev10218
You won't regret it.

[rojhero]

It's not too late to sign up. Sounds like there's about 10 spots left.

Karelo Link (https://www.karelo.com/enter_res.php?&BID=334#Ev10218)

Here's the link again to the forum:
SASC forum (http://sascsolo.ca/forums/index.php?showtopic=791&st=0)

A manual and map has just been uploaded today.

edit: Darn. Too slow to post again. I have to stop getting distracted while posting.

[Murray Peterson]

BTW -- the techniques you learn at this course will serve you well if you decide to get into racing (summer or winter racing, doesn't matter).

[jsn]

Originally posted by msommers
I'll go if we can still sign up.

DO IT MATT. I just signed up:D

[msommers]

What are we supposed to put for vehicle class? I have no idea what to choose lol.

Also is a helmet required?

[rojhero]

I don't think it matters what you put since there's no competition. In case you are interested. Here are some old classifications:

http://www.asncanada.com/2010_Autoslalom/ASN_Canada_FIA_2010_Autoslalom_Car_Classifications.pdf

No helmets required.

[msommers]

Nevermind, I found it

http://www.scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules/2010_scca_solo_rules.pdf

pg 157

Turns out I need to switch to 'FS'

Oops sorry didn't see you posted Roj

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Murray Peterson]

This isn't a competition. so ignore the class question.
Helmets not needed (or really even desirable).

[Neil4Speed]

I must do this, sounds amazing!

[lilmira]

Would there be another one in Feb?

[ArjayAquino]

OMG that would be fun as hell. I would love to try that place out before I sell my car lol.

[msommers]

Thanks for the info boys, I'll see ya bright n' early Sunday.

[Neil4Speed]

You taking the G35? Nice - Should be a good showdown of how shit RWD Lux Coupes are on Ice! lol

See you guys on Sunday!

[94boosted]

Originally posted by lilmira
Would there be another one in Feb?

There should be another one in Feb yah.

[2BLUE]

Wait till the event is done then use the track for free

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by lilmira
Would there be another one in Feb?

We are planning on holding three more events (all in February).

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by 2BLUE
Wait till the event is done then use the track for free

Then you will have to supply your own traffic pylons and instructors :)

[lilmira]

Sweet! Please keep us posted.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Neil4Speed
You taking the G35? Nice - Should be a good showdown of how shit RWD Lux Coupes are on Ice! lol

See you guys on Sunday!

Haha yes taking the G35. Turn off traction control...awesome.

Hopefully she doesn't go through the ice, she's a heavy bitch!

[bighead2267]

love ot see more pics

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by 2BLUE
Wait till the event is done then use the track for free

I guess I should make a serious response.

Anyone can go out to the lake and hoon around. It's fun, but not all that educational -- you need an instructor to tell (and show) you how to improve. This is true for experienced racers as well as beginners. I try to take at least one course every year to improve my skills. As with any other skill, it isn't something we are born with -- we need to practise and study to get better.

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by lilmira
Sweet! Please keep us posted.

OK -- three more classes are now scheduled:
Feb 6
Feb 20
Feb 26

More info, etc. in this SASC thread:
http://sascsolo.ca/forums/index.php?showtopic=791&pid=5748&st=40&#entry5748

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Sweet, me and my dad will be coming for at least on of the February events. I cant wait for Auto X this year as well.

[Murray Peterson]

Glad to have you out! I should be joining the instructor "crowd" for the remaining events :)

[PulsePro]

Originally posted by msommers


Haha yes taking the G35. Turn off traction control...awesome.

Hopefully she doesn't go through the ice, she's a heavy bitch!

3500 lbs is not a heavy vehicle. My sedan is 5500 lbs lol!

[msommers]

It's a coupe but you're right! You're up there with morbidly obese :rofl:

[vengie]

This sounds like a ton of fun! any guidelines as to what vehicles you can use?

I'd be using my GMC canyon with studded A/T's...

[lilmira]

Originally posted by Murray Peterson


OK -- three more classes are now scheduled:
Feb 6
Feb 20
Feb 26

More info, etc. in this SASC thread:
http://sascsolo.ca/forums/index.php?showtopic=791&pid=5748&st=40&#entry5748

Thanks! I'm definitely joining one of those classes. Going to talk to a few people and see if they want to come too. When can we sign up?

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by lilmira


Thanks! I'm definitely joining one of those classes. Going to talk to a few people and see if they want to come too. When can we sign up?

The remaining three events are now open for registration in Karelo:

Feb 6: www.karelo.com/register.php?BID=334&BT=10#Ev10295
Feb 20: www.karelo.com/register.php?BID=334&BT=10#Ev10296
Feb 26: www.karelo.com/register.php?BID=334&BT=10#Ev10297

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by vengie
This sounds like a ton of fun! any guidelines as to what vehicles you can use?

I'd be using my GMC canyon with studded A/T's...

Not a problem -- sign up and bring it out.

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by bighead2267
love ot see more pics

http://picasaweb.google.com/jforceracing/WinterDrivingSchoolGhostLakeFebruary202010#

http://picasaweb.google.com/csemanciw/MiataGhostLakeDrivingSchool#

[jsn]

^^ Great pics. I'm so stoked for sunday!

[Neil4Speed]

Originally posted by PulsePro


3500 lbs is not a heavy vehicle. My sedan is 5500 lbs lol!

Wow, you have me curious, even W140 S600's were only 4800lbs - what is your car?!

[jsn]

Today was a blast. I got a better feeling for my car from just playing around with the throttle. I've never been more glad to own a subaru :D

But to be honest, I think I would have gotten just as much out of it if I were to bring my own pylons, set a course and just dick around for the whole day. They booked way too many people even for the 5 instructors that were there. I didn't even get any seat time with any of the instructors. Ghost lake is awesome to go and practice sliding around on ice by yourself or with some friends

Nice to meet you Neil. Man you must have been struggling. I think out of everyone in our group, you had the least traction (including the mazda 3 with all seasons)

[Darell_n]

I was out there on Saturday playing with my GoPro and getting my wife to drift her car. Looks good @ 1080p.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn8bBahstIE

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by jsn

But to be honest, I think I would have gotten just as much out of it if I were to bring my own pylons, set a course and just dick around for the whole day. They booked way too many people even for the 5 instructors that were there. I didn't even get any seat time with any of the instructors. Ghost lake is awesome to go and practice sliding around on ice by yourself or with some friends


Sorry to hear that. I'll pass this along to Reijo.

[jsn]

Originally posted by Murray Peterson


Sorry to hear that. I'll pass this along to Reijo.

I was in Reijos group. I sort of exaggerated. I got some really brief seat time with the instructor during the dodging pylon exercise (which were supposed to represent pedestrians) and the exercise where you press the clutch and brake to lock the brakes when you're on an unrecoverable skid.

However, I did not get any seat time at all, during the 2 autocross tracks that were set up. I've done most of the defensive driving techniques back when I took defensive driving from AMA. I mainly wanted feedback from the autoX course that was set up but I wasn't able to get any seat time for that.

Oh well. I had fun drifting around the track on my own.

[Everlast]

Just want to share my experience.

I was with Jennifer's group and found she had great advice. She made an effort to ride with everyone multiple times (at least 3 with me) and kept an eye out for people who were struggling and rode along with them.

All in all it was a great experience. The only problem I had was we didn't get started until close to 9:30 so organization could be better.

[94boosted]

Originally posted by Everlast
Just want to share my experience.

I was with Jennifer's group and found she had great advice. She made an effort to ride with everyone multiple times (at least 3 with me) and kept an eye out for people who were struggling and rode along with them.

All in all it was a great experience. The only problem I had was we didn't get started until close to 9:30 so organization could be better.

I was in your group too I think (with Jennifer). It was a lot of fun however as the ice was so polished and so slick there was absolutely no traction whatsoever lol if there was a bit more snow on the ice I think it would of been better.

[msommers]

I too was in Reijo's group. I found more seat time would have been much more preferable as well, especially because it was so obvious how much Reijo knew about driving. That's not to say I didn't gain anything from the time I did get with him, because I did, however I also missed him in 2/4 exercises.

If I was to attend the same event again, I would have no issue paying more to ensure a smaller student to instructor ratio.

All in all, I still had a great time and would recommend people to go out and try it.

[Murray Peterson]

I had a chat (via email) with Reijo this morning -- here's what he had to say:

"An apology is in order. Sorry to hear things did not work well for you!

Yes, we had one instructor call in sick at midnight so we did not have the opportunity to get a replacement. Also with the late start, due to having to re-locate on the lake our time was cut short a bit I found. So, this did not result in an ideal situation and I know, personally, that I missed one or two students in the coned courses having to take care of some complications with regard to coordination with the other instructors.

This was a new occurrence for us, so in the future I'm intending on having more instructors just in case we face this scenario again so we are not caught short-handed for instructors. In any case, in all fairness, we should offer this fellow an invitation to a future school at no cost. Some times things don't work out the way we want them to but we will work on it and will be better next time out! I also had some new ideas I wanted to incorporate but the time and opportunity was not there. It will come together."

[lilmira]

Yay, signed up for Feb 6.

[Darell_n]

Originally posted by lilmira
Yay, signed up for Feb 6.

Drove by the dam last night and there's a ton a water, all the snow is gone.

[2BLUE]

Originally posted by Darell_n


Drove by the dam last night and there's a ton a water, all the snow is gone.

i was out there yesterday with the wrx and audi s4 its crazy better in the water!!! Setup just over 40 cones and every single one was floating and got knocked over.

[Canmorite]

Definitely want to do this...

[msommers]

Does anyone have an idea how thick the ice is now that it's been quite warm all week? I wouldn't mind going out to drive around but obviously safety is priority.

[jsn]

I was wondering the exact same thing. Especially seeing how yesterday was close to 11 degrees.

[Murray Peterson]

Just a reminder; the next school is Sunday February 6th

[2BLUE]

Originally posted by msommers
Does anyone have an idea how thick the ice is now that it's been quite warm all week? I wouldn't mind going out to drive around but obviously safety is priority.

Its plenty thick enough!

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by msommers
Does anyone have an idea how thick the ice is now that it's been quite warm all week? I wouldn't mind going out to drive around but obviously safety is priority.

Easily thick enough:
http://2011sascwinterdrivingschools.shutterfly.com/pictures/71

[lilmira]

Had a lot of fun today. Thanks to Chris, Steve and Reijo for showing me what can be done with my own car, those are fun rides :burnout:

[Murray Peterson]

Next school is Sunday, February 20

https://www.karelo.com/enter_res.php?&BID=334#Ev10296

http://sascsolo.ca/forums/index.php?showtopic=791

Attendance at this one is currently low, so may lots of seat time looks likely.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Murray Peterson
Next school is Sunday, February 20

https://www.karelo.com/enter_res.php?&BID=334#Ev10296

http://sascsolo.ca/forums/index.php?showtopic=791

Attendance at this one is currently low, so may lots of seat time looks likely.

Woohoo I signed up! This seems like a great event as I couldn't make the ASA event in Edmonton this weekend. Could definitely use a few pointers. Looking forward to meet you!

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by clem24


Woohoo I signed up! This seems like a great event as I couldn't make the ASA event in Edmonton this weekend. Could definitely use a few pointers. Looking forward to meet you!

Looking at the ASA event #2 results, perhaps I should be asking you for pointers :)

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by clem24


Woohoo I signed up! This seems like a great event as I couldn't make the ASA event in Edmonton this weekend. Could definitely use a few pointers. Looking forward to meet you!

Hope you had fun (and learned something)!

[clem24]

Originally posted by Murray Peterson


Hope you had fun (and learned something)!

Murray, it was a lot of fun and yes I did learn a lot.

But.. On that note, I would caution that the title "Winter Driving Course" is a bit misleading. A more reflective title should be "Ice Auto-x Driving Course". For me it was beneficial but for others looking for something that can be applied to everyday driving situations, I think they might be disappointed. The instruction that I got from you and Kyle was definitely geared towards auto-xing. I personally had fun lapping the course over and over, especially on the laps where I wanted to have fun and test the car (i.e putting it sideways for the entire corner). So in that sense, it was a great and safe place to practice those things and have fun doing it.

However, the only disappointment is that there is no event to test out everything I've learned. I still think racing on ice is a completely different beast than doing auto-x on asphalt. I can learn so much during the day, but nothing is actually put to the test. There's no timed event during the day. What I'd love to see is a timed event, either at the end of the day, or another day as a separate event.

Otherwise, I'd totally do it again (but can't next weekend since I'll be in Edmonton hehehe). Oh that and I think it's a limit of twice a year thing to abandon my wife and 2 screaming kids hehehe.

Thanks again for all the instruction. I look forward to handing you your ass someday with your own advice hehehe.

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by clem24


Murray, it was a lot of fun and yes I did learn a lot.

But.. On that note, I would caution that the title "Winter Driving Course" is a bit misleading. A more reflective title should be "Ice Auto-x Driving Course". For me it was beneficial but for others looking for something that can be applied to everyday driving situations, I think they might be disappointed. The instruction that I got from you and Kyle was definitely geared towards auto-xing. I personally had fun lapping the course over and over, especially on the laps where I wanted to have fun and test the car (i.e putting it sideways for the entire corner). So in that sense, it was a great and safe place to practice those things and have fun doing it.


The instruction was personalized for every driver. In your case, since I knew you were an autocrosser, that's what I covered. Sunday's event was strange in that the majority were there to get autox instruction.

BTW -- there really is a lot of crossover from autox and proper driving (winter or summer). "Look ahead, plan ahead" is probably more important on the street than when racing. Failure when racing gets you a slow time, but on the street it's much more serious.



However, the only disappointment is that there is no event to test out everything I've learned. I still think racing on ice is a completely different beast than doing auto-x on asphalt. I can learn so much during the day, but nothing is actually put to the test. There's no timed event during the day. What I'd love to see is a timed event, either at the end of the day, or another day as a separate event.


We discussed it, but there are possible implications with respect to our use of the lake. It is a provincial park, so we feel it's wise to treat it with respect and only for things that have full approval of the neighbours and park officials.



Thanks again for all the instruction. I look forward to handing you your ass someday with your own advice hehehe.

Good luck with that <insert some smack talk response here> :)

[VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN]

Are there going to be March classes? I just got winters on the subbie and would like to try this out.

[Murray Peterson]

Next weekend (Feb 26th) is the last one we have planned.

[clem24]

Yeah if it warms up quickly, I don't think you'd want to be on the ice hehe.

BTW I am sure I'll be flamed for this but Subaru's aren't that ideal around the ice. It's quite a difficult car to handle around curves. Sure they launch great but man... Very difficult to predict what it will do. Maybe an STI with a lockable diff might be better.

[94boosted]

Originally posted by Murray Peterson
Next weekend (Feb 26th) is the last one we have planned.

That's too bad I was really hoping for another one in March.

[VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN]

Yeah, I really was too. I can't make this Saturday because of work.
:(

You guys should look at one last one if the weather still stays cold for the next 2 weeks. Hell, you guys should do one this Sunday.

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN
Yeah, I really was too. I can't make this Saturday because of work.
:(

You guys should look at one last one if the weather still stays cold for the next 2 weeks. Hell, you guys should do one this Sunday.

This Sunday is booked for a CSCC rally-X event at Race City. You can always come out and get schooled in an entirely different way :)

These schools take a significant amount of time and effort, and we are all volunteers. I figure that we are doing really well to hold the four courses this year.

[VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN]

Haha, I like the course because of the price.
You guys are doing a really great thing, and on behalf of Beyond I gotta say that you guys are doing very good work. I am looking forward to next year if you guys do this again.

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by VaN_HaMMeRSTeiN
Haha, I like the course because of the price.
You guys are doing a really great thing, and on behalf of Beyond I gotta say that you guys are doing very good work. I am looking forward to next year if you guys do this again.

Thank you! It's nice to know that our efforts are appreciated.

[Murray Peterson]

Because the cold weather is continuing ( :( ), we are considering one more course. Enough interest for us to move forward?

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I am interested as I didn't get to make it out to the last events! As long as its a weekend because I have class 5 days a week, preferably a Sunday but Saturday would work as well.

[94boosted]

You can count me + 1 more person down for sure and potentially yet another. So 2.5 ;)

[Idratherbsidewayz]

I would go to one if it's the 2nd part of March.

[msommers]

Depending on the weekend, I'd be down. This coming weekend for example I would go.

[bspot]

I would love to go!

[BigDL]

Originally posted by clem24
Yeah if it warms up quickly, I don't think you'd want to be on the ice hehe.

BTW I am sure I'll be flamed for this but Subaru's aren't that ideal around the ice. It's quite a difficult car to handle around curves. Sure they launch great but man... Very difficult to predict what it will do. Maybe an STI with a lockable diff might be better.

My 2.5i is quite predictable what it was going to do on the ice. It has open front and rear diffs. Then again I autox, and the car does have max camber front and rear.

Murray, more seat time is always good :)

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

My Legacy GT is pretty unpredictable compared to the RWD cars and trucks i'm used to driving.

[BigDL]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
My Legacy GT is pretty unpredictable compared to the RWD cars and trucks i'm used to driving.

TC on or off?

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

It doesn't have traction control, its a 2005.

[jsn]

Is this still happening this weekend?