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View Full Version : Finally, A moderate muslim groups speaks out!



freshprince1
01-18-2011, 09:58 AM
Guys like this need to be more vocal, and take more action worldwide, Mahfooz Kanwar, PhD, a professor emeritus at Mount Royal University.

Calgary Herald Article: "Yes, Islam condones wife beating, misogyny" (http://www.calgaryherald.com/technology/Kanwar+Islam+condones+wife+beatings+misogyny/4117312/story.html#ixzz1BMLU11z2)



Recently, Marvin Levant (Dec. 28), Steve Harris (Dec. 30), Syed Soharwardy (Jan. 2), and Riazuddin Ahmed (Jan. 5) debated Islam through the forum of the Herald's letters to the editor.

The issue of wife beating and gender inequality in Islam has become convoluted and highly controversial as many Muslims try to sugar-coat the ugly truths and others try to shed some light on it.

Soharwardy's statement that "beating one's wife is not only wrong, it is criminal and completely un-Islamic" is incorrect.

The Qur'an says that "men are in charge of women because Allah has made one of them (men) to excel the other (women), thus man's superiority over women . . . good women are the obedient ones . . . admonish the rebellious women and banish them, and scourge them (whip them severely to inflict pain) (4:34) . . . smote them (hit or strike with the hand or with a weapon causing pain, beat them) (4:62)".

Islam does not recognize gender equality. For example, polygamy is accepted in Islam, but polyandry is not. A woman's testimony is considered half as worthy as a man's in court; a son inherits twice as much as a daughter does.

Muslim men may marry Muslim, Jewish or Christian women, but Muslim women can marry only Muslim men.

In short, sharia law leads to the inhuman treatment of Muslim women by their husbands and others, especially in South Asia and the Middle East.

Higher education is emphasized more for sons than for daughters; in cultural honour killings, almost always women are the target for murder.

Under sharia, divorced Muslim women get custody of their sons under eight years of age and daughters until puberty, and then the fathers take the children away.

Sharia enabled one of the worst fundamentalists, the vile and ruthless military dictator, Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, to put more than 15,000 rape victims in jail because they could not comply with the absurd Islamic condition requiring them to have numerous male witnesses of their victimization. They were charged with fornication and their rapists were let go free.

At birth, all infants are equal, but Islam makes then unequal; sharia is incompatible with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Soharwardy knows all of this to be true. It is in his Qur'an and other Islamic texts. I have no desire to hear useless excuses from mullahs for all these gender inequalities in Islam.

Soharwardy and I were on CHQR Radio in Calgary to discuss the issue of a 17-year-old Muslim boy who beat his 16-year-old sister.

That boy was incited by an illiterate mullah to discipline his sister because she was suspected of flirting with a white boy in northeast Calgary.

Soharwardy and I agreed it was not an Islamic requirement for the boy to do what he did. I mentioned that Muslim husbands do have sharia-sanctioned power to discipline their wives.

Soharwardy personifies an addiction to religion. I watched him on his own community TV channel shouting his head off just before the Supreme Court of Canada ruled on Dec. 9, 2004 in favour of same-sex marriage, and Parliament passed the civil marriage legislation, C-38, recognizing same-sex marriage on June 28, 2005.

He literally shouted that "Canada will be wiped off the face of the Earth by a tsunami if it accepts same-sex marriage. . . . Who the (heck) does the Parliament of Canada think it is to make laws? The laws are made by God."

That is clearly an addiction to religion. God may be sovereign in the constitutions of countries such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, but in secular democracies such as Canada, the people have the sovereign power to make laws.

In its infancy, Islam was known to be the religion of the sword.

The Taliban and al-Qaeda have made it the religion of international terrorism and suicide bombers. They are violating the Islamic tenet that "Muslims who murder and commit suicide will be condemned to hell."

Yet, suicide bombers commit both of these sins and claim to end up in paradise.

Not only have Islamists committed atrocities against non-Muslims, but they have done worse to their fellow Muslims.

I have a video which shows fundamentalists who slaughtered 33 Muslims and taped their criminal acts in northern Pakistan in 2010.

One of the cruellest Islamic dicta is the law of blasphemy, which carries the death penalty against those who insult the Qur'an or the Prophet Muhammad.

Zia-ul-haq imposed it in Pakistan. Not only has that law mostly targeted moderate and secular Muslims, it has also been used against minorities, especially the Christian population of Pakistan.

One of its victims is Asia Bibi, a Christian woman who was accused of insulting the Prophet Muhammad.

Over the years, I have learned of hundreds of blasphemy cases against Christians in Pakistan.

The law is often used by Muslims to take revenge on a neighbour. These blasphemy laws must be removed from the books.

On Jan. 3, Salman Taseer, governor of Punjab, was murdered by his own bodyguard because Taseer spoke against the blasphemy law.

It is shameful that more than 500 mullahs honoured the killer and celebrated Taseer's murder on the streets of Islamabad and Karachi.

I have not heard any Islamic group condemning it except for the one I belong to, the Muslim Canadian Congress.

The Muslim world is ruled by a corrupt elite, including the monarchs, oligarchs, military dictators, corrupt politicians, depraved bureaucrats, and the murderous fundamentalist Muslim clerics.

On the whole, Muslims seem to be frustrated, less recognized except in international terrorism, less secularly educated than the West and less developed. Without a democratic system of government, they are hopeless, hapless, desperate, and mad at Jews and Christians. That is really sad.


Mahfooz Kanwar, PhD, is a professor emeritus at Mount Royal University.

edit: added wall-of-text article so you don't have to go to the link if you don't want to.

max_boost
01-18-2011, 10:07 AM
:drama:

CUG
01-18-2011, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by freshprince1
Guys like this need to be more vocal, and take more action worldwide, Mahfooz Kanwar, PhD, a professor emeritus at Mount Royal University.

Calgary Herald Article: "Yes, Islam condones wife beating, misogyny" (http://www.calgaryherald.com/technology/Kanwar+Islam+condones+wife+beatings+misogyny/4117312/story.html#ixzz1BMLU11z2)



edit: added wall-of-text article so you don't have to go to the link if you don't want to. It needed to be heard. (No offense Max_Boost)

And not even so much about the text, but rather how ridiculous Sayed Sohawardy is in using the Alberta Human Rights Commission to harbour his petty little resentments against those who don't like his religion. That fool, in my opinion, should not even have a voice in the media. Jackasses behave that way.

D. Dub
01-18-2011, 12:02 PM
I think they've been speaking out all along. They just don't the same kind or amount of media attention as the crazies - especially in the US

How often do you see a calm, peace loving, Muslim, immigrant family portrayed?

SmAcKpOo
01-18-2011, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by D. Dub
I think they've been speaking out all along.

I don't know about that. The Muslims I speak to in my office have a general disdain for women. One of them is actually quite vocal about how women should be subservient to men.

BrknFngrs
01-18-2011, 01:07 PM
Great article; I personally would love to see more of the non-radical divisions of the religion speak out against the radicals and I'm sure this would help with their acceptance into Canadian and American culture.

heavyD
01-18-2011, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by D. Dub
How often do you see a calm, peace loving, Muslim, immigrant family portrayed?

It's just like with native indians. They aren't all drunks but many are and that's what people focus on.

syeve
01-18-2011, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by SmAcKpOo


I don't know about that. The Muslims I speak to in my office have a general disdain for women. One of them is actually quite vocal about how women should be subservient to men.

Same here, I have the nicest Muslim lady working here. She constantly says how lucky she is that her husband "lets" her work. She is absolutely terrified of him.

max_boost
01-18-2011, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by syeve


Same here, I have the nicest Muslim lady working here. She constantly says how lucky she is that her husband "lets" her work. She is absolutely terrified of him.

Interesting. I need to find myself a nice (hot) muslim girl and show her the way women are supposed to be treated. :bigpimp:

codetrap
01-18-2011, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by D. Dub
I think they've been speaking out all along. They just don't the same kind or amount of media attention as the crazies - especially in the US

How often do you see a calm, peace loving, Muslim, immigrant family portrayed?

Little Mosque on the Prairie?

heavyD
01-18-2011, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by BrknFngrs
Great article; I personally would love to see more of the non-radical divisions of the religion speak out against the radicals and I'm sure this would help with their acceptance into Canadian and American culture.

Don't know if that would help in the US at all. I deal with a lot of US clients and in the old days all you would hear from these guy was "blacks this", "blacks that". Now the contempt is all towards the muslims.

Godfuader
01-18-2011, 01:50 PM
On a tangent about the "intelligent" source. Professor Kanwar is a dumb-ass! I took a class with him like 7 years ago. His views are always one-sided, and he refuses to listen to any other perspective. I can write up an article about how Islam preaches the importance of women, but then that would be against entertainment news. :zzz:

1barA4
01-18-2011, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Godfuader
I can write up an article about how Islam preaches the importance of women

I think you should, with cited passages.

Not being facetious, I really would like to read that (even if just over PM).

max_boost
01-18-2011, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by 1barA4


I think you should, with cited passages.

Not being facetious, I really would like to read that (even if just over PM).
:werd:

CUG
01-18-2011, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Godfuader
On a tangent about the "intelligent" source. Professor Kanwar is a dumb-ass! I took a class with him like 7 years ago. His views are always one-sided, and he refuses to listen to any other perspective. I can write up an article about how Islam preaches the importance of women, but then that would be against entertainment news. :zzz:

Usually such is the case if you're unable to provide any ground for your "other perspective". If you have a shitty rationale for your argument, it's not worthy of someone's time.

You'll write an article on the "importance of women" but not on the "proper treatment of women" in fundamental islam?

Oh son, light it up.

Godfuader
01-18-2011, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by 1barA4


I think you should, with cited passages.

Not being facetious, I really would like to read that (even if just over PM).
At beyond we just post the first google article with choice buzz words, so here is one that I guess has something to do about women being equal. (haven't read it)

http://www.jannah.org/sisters/statuswomen.html

As for Kanwar's article, I am forwarding it to a few academics to get their perspective on this quality journalism.

CUG
01-18-2011, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Godfuader

At beyond we just post the first google article with choice buzz words, so here is one that I guess has something to do about women being equal. (haven't read it)

http://www.jannah.org/sisters/statuswomen.html

As for Kanwar's article, I am forwarding it to a few academics to get their perspective on this quality journalism. I wonder if you actually ever went to University like you said, because there is a standard to hold your sources to. For instance, the fellow claims to have a PhD, and says something this ridiculous:

The attitude of the Qur'an and the early Muslims bear witness to the fact that woman is, at least, as vital to life as man himself, and that she is not inferior to him nor is she one of the lower species. Had it not been for the impact of foreign cultures and alien influences, this question would have never arisen among the Muslims.
Was this one of those high-quality "honorary" PhD's?

When this is the passage in the book, laid out clearly:

"men are in charge of women because Allah has made one of them (men) to excel the other (women), thus man's superiority over women . . . good women are the obedient ones . . . admonish the rebellious women and banish them, and scourge them (whip them severely to inflict pain) (4:34) . . . smote them (hit or strike with the hand or with a weapon causing pain, beat them) (4:62)".

I'm glad you're active in this thread. I've routinely heard nuances of your unsound logic when it comes to social matters like these. How fortunate we are to be able to expose them here :) You're definitely someone to hear, but not listen to, it seems.

SmAcKpOo
01-18-2011, 08:26 PM
<3 CUG

max_boost
01-18-2011, 08:49 PM
Wow.

Why is Allah so hard on the ladies man.

old&slow
01-18-2011, 09:36 PM
^Why indeed? Maybe He isn't hard on them.
Just because someone wrote it in a book and a bunch of guys push it, doesn't mean God had anything to do with it!

Sal0
01-18-2011, 10:39 PM
Funny what comes up when you google the following "passage" in the book...

"men are in charge of women because Allah has made one of them (men) to excel the other (women), thus man's superiority over women . . . good women are the obedient ones . . . admonish the rebellious women and banish them, and scourge them (whip them severely to inflict pain) (4:34) . . . smote them (hit or strike with the hand or with a weapon causing pain, beat them) (4:62)".

Seems like these topics keep comming up, that does nothing but entice more hate.

DRKM
01-18-2011, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Sal0
Funny what comes up when you google the following &quot;passage&quot; in the book...

&quot;men are in charge of women because Allah has made one of them (men) to excel the other (women), thus man's superiority over women . . . good women are the obedient ones . . . admonish the rebellious women and banish them, and scourge them (whip them severely to inflict pain) (4:34) . . . smote them (hit or strike with the hand or with a weapon causing pain, beat them) (4:62)&quot;.

Seems like these topics keep comming up, that does nothing but entice more hate.

You are right. Now that I now it is in the quaran I feel much better beating my wife.

HiTempguy1
01-19-2011, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by DRKM


You are right. Now that I now it is in the quaran I feel much better beating my wife.

http://thelaughingmarcus.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/so-much-win.jpg

CUG
01-19-2011, 12:41 AM
This is an interpretation thing! There's rotten shit in the bible, that if it were in practice today, would be completely unacceptable.

I can't argue with the OP's link, because women weren't equals to men when I traveled through the ME. It's just not the case.

Conversely, some of the second third and fourth wives have it pretty good: they get educations and things of the like. It's not ALL rotten.

Modelexis
01-19-2011, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by Godfuader
On a tangent about the &quot;intelligent&quot; source. Professor Kanwar is a dumb-ass! I took a class with him like 7 years ago. His views are always one-sided, and he refuses to listen to any other perspective. I can write up an article about how Islam preaches the importance of women, but then that would be against entertainment news. :zzz:

Translation = I'm butt hurt cause you're pointing out that my religion was written by a guy with a penis.

Also, any praise you give to women will be lined with condescension because you are apologizing for the ugly out dated orders given by your prophet (and apparently author) and his book.

There is no such thing as one sided when you quote from a book, it says what it says. You can make up all kinds of justifications but in the end the words are clear. It doesn't say something like "thy bird of pray meets a man of failure" or some vague shiz like that, it's very specific.

After you're done justifying the sexist nature of the book, maybe you can start explaining what the punishment is for apostacism in the muslim religion.

1barA4
01-19-2011, 02:12 PM
For some levity, let's quote Mr. Garrison:

"Now put yourself in the shoes of a Muslim. It's Friday night, but you can't have sex, and you can't jack off. There's sand in your eyes and probably in the crack of your ass, and then some cartoon comes along from a country where people are getting laid, and mocks your prophet. Well you know what? I'd be pretty pissed off too!"

Still waiting for a better article from Godfauder (he said he didn't read the first one so I'll wait for a better one).

JfuckinC
01-19-2011, 02:17 PM
Clearly the prophet or allah or whatever did not get laid enough :dunno:


Jesus didn't either did he? poor guys. Couldn't get laid so they try and ruin the fun for everyone else.

1barA4
01-19-2011, 02:21 PM
Key point is that all religion preaches lameness and gender inequality, then people (lol biblical or religious "scholars") "re-interpret" things and figure out that "beat your wife, she is lower than a lamp compared to a man" really meant "your wife is your equal, and cherished, let her vote and wear makeup and go to school"

zain123
01-19-2011, 03:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mz8nTTS27g

anyone who has sometime please watch this.. some words might fly over your head.. psot away if you have any questions orr you can also follow this speaker on muslimmatters.org.. can ask him there as well


excellent writer and speaker

syeve
01-19-2011, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by JfuckinC
Clearly the prophet or allah or whatever did not get laid enough :dunno:




Maybe he shouldn't have married a 9 year old.

syeve
01-19-2011, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by zain123
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mz8nTTS27g

anyone who has sometime please watch this.. some words might fly over your head.. psot away if you have any questions orr you can also follow this speaker on muslimmatters.org.. can ask him there as well


excellent writer and speaker

3Mz8nTTS27g

1barA4
01-19-2011, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by zain123
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mz8nTTS27g

anyone who has sometime please watch this.. some words might fly over your head.. psot away if you have any questions orr you can also follow this speaker on muslimmatters.org.. can ask him there as well


excellent writer and speaker

He seems well spoken but before I spend 58 minutes watching it; does he use actual references to the Quran? Or is it (like some more liberal sects) more referential to what certain historical or prominent Imams say?

The main "problem" with referencing Imams and scholars is they are interpreting (and re-interpreting or re-envisioning) the original text...which leads back to my example:

example original text (NB: does not exist in any religious text verbatim, it's an example and farcical at that): beat your wife. your lamp is more a person than her.
scholarly interpretation: love your wife, she's good people, and should vote and go to school.


(Side note: As mentioned, I can find many misogynistic passages in any religion, it just so happens that Islam is the subject here, the above example is just as applicable to Christianity. But not Scientology, because I didn't mention space cruisers or a pedophile who had a harem of kids in his floating armada of awesome)

Darkane
01-19-2011, 08:11 PM
Yeah beating a chick isn't cool, they should adopt more of a Greek Orthodox approach.

We can't beat them, but if they're disobedient and out of line they go to hell ;)

lol.

DRKM
01-20-2011, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by syeve


3Mz8nTTS27g

What a joke. A quote " Woman's rights for the first time have caught up with men, but they wanted to go beyond this as well. This is no longer progression but degression"

According to him Muslim woman have had more rights than western woman and only recently the woman have had more rights, but according to him they are too much.

He claims that it is difficulty arguing for womans rights in islam since the western world has "made the game". Since we allow Homosexuals, Single mothers, premarital sex, ect, that is why there is not a fair argument when it comes to womans rights.

Homosexual rights are regressing.

Single Mothers are evil.

So basically the Male bias myth is based on Muslims have a higher moral standing and should not be questioned. He says "equality in islam is religous and spiritual. There can not be any equality in the roles of men and woman because they are not the same." He then goes on to condone Sharia law.

Don't bother watching this retard. I can not stand when religious people make claims on science, let alone comments on social issues. I want my 58mins back.

zain123
01-20-2011, 02:45 AM
^ very intelligent analysis lol

DRKM
01-20-2011, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by zain123
^ very intelligent analysis lol

They are his quotes. How can I analysis them any other way?

zain123
01-20-2011, 01:06 PM
your 1 line summary at the end is what i referred to

zain123
01-20-2011, 01:07 PM
or the correct word should be conclusion?
either way :banghead:

911fever
01-20-2011, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by BrknFngrs
Great article; I personally would love to see more of the non-radical divisions of the religion speak out against the radicals and I'm sure this would help with their acceptance into Canadian and American culture.

amen. Totally agree, we need more of this, making radical Islam unacceptable by the whole Muslim community as a whole will help isolate and turn away extremist Muslims and their converts.


Originally posted by Godfuader
On a tangent about the &quot;intelligent&quot; source. Professor Kanwar is a dumb-ass! I took a class with him like 7 years ago. His views are always one-sided, and he refuses to listen to any other perspective. I can write up an article about how Islam preaches the importance of women, but then that would be against entertainment news. :zzz:

yawn. Show me this article son. After I beat your wife (justified by the Koran) lets analyze it together.


Originally posted by SmAcKpOo
&lt;3 CUG

x2


Originally posted by Sal0
Funny what comes up when you google the following &quot;passage&quot; in the book...

&quot;men are in charge of women because Allah has made one of them (men) to excel the other (women), thus man's superiority over women . . . good women are the obedient ones . . . admonish the rebellious women and banish them, and scourge them (whip them severely to inflict pain) (4:34) . . . smote them (hit or strike with the hand or with a weapon causing pain, beat them) (4:62)&quot;.

Seems like these topics keep comming up, that does nothing but entice more hate.

The Koran is based on pedophilic writing, hate and lacks any semblance of equality for men and women.



Originally posted by Modelexis


Translation = I'm butt hurt cause you're pointing out that my religion was written by a guy with a penis.

Also, any praise you give to women will be lined with condescension because you are apologizing for the ugly out dated orders given by your prophet (and apparently author) and his book.

There is no such thing as one sided when you quote from a book, it says what it says. You can make up all kinds of justifications but in the end the words are clear. It doesn't say something like &quot;thy bird of pray meets a man of failure&quot; or some vague shiz like that, it's very specific.

After you're done justifying the sexist nature of the book, maybe you can start explaining what the punishment is for apostacism in the muslim religion.

boom headshot. you got it.