Iraq weapons inspectors going home....empty handed.

[Toma]

Big surprise eh? The official hunt is over, turned up nothing.

Former inspector Ritter was on CNN today saying that DNA tests at sites where Iraq claimed it had destroyed its Antrhax several years ago, confirm that in fact Antrhax had been destroyed there.

Looks like even more evidence that Iraq was telling the truth...

[illeagle]

Check under their clothes... (suicide bomber's):dunno:

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Toma
Former inspector Ritter was on CNN today saying that DNA tests at sites where Iraq claimed it had destroyed its Antrhax several years ago, confirm that in fact Antrhax had been destroyed there.

Wait a minute!? You mean that those evil Iraqis said they were going to destroy the Anthrax...and they actually did? Son of a bitches...Oh well, the U.S. isn't invading them because of the WMD anymore anyways - it's because the Iraqis are jealous that the U.S. is free...

*******


"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country."


-Hermann Goering (1893 - 1946)
Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe, President of the Reichstag, Prime Minister of Prussia and Hitler's designated successor

The second in command of the Third Reich

"These [terrorist] attacks are not inevitable. They are, however, possible, and this very fact underscores the reason we cannot live under the threat of blackmail…The terrorist threat to America and the world will be diminished the moment that Saddam Hussein is disarmed."


-George W Bush (1946- )

Commander-in-Chief of the United States Armed Forces

President of the United States of America

[kevie88]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


-Hermann Goering (1893 - 1946)

-George W Bush (1946- )



holy shit! I didn't realise these two were *edit* died/born in the same year! Now we know where the bastard got his shrivelled little soul from.:whipped:

[/////AMG]

They're not, Goering died 1946, Bush was born 1946, right?

[Toma]

ooooh, good quote. Hope you don't mind me using it...

[04blackMAX]

yeah thats great news, but still doesnt make saddam a saint, he was still a murderer, rapiest, and was insane, maybe they didnt find any weapons of mass destrusction now, but they may trun up, and if anyting has come out of this, shows that you can only run so long before you get caught,,,,,,and iraq is a free country now

so who cares if they were telling the truth, everyone that was cliaming they had nothing where stone cold killers anyways..

[rogue]

did anyone notice that the moment Saddams regime fell the suicide bombings in Israel slowed to a crawl. That is because Saddam was funding the bombings and providing the families of the "martyrs" with enough money to take care of thier widows and families for the rest of their lives. These people werent blowing themselves up for religions or politics it was mostly so their family wouldnt starve. I feel for the people on all sides of these conflicts and i can see where they all come from but unfortunatly i think going in and taking out Saddam was the right thing to do but they should set up a responsible government and get out of there FAST.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Toma
ooooh, good quote. Hope you don't mind me using it...

By all means! It takes a bit of thought, and I had to re-read it twice, but its an awesome quote...



Originally posted by rogue
did anyone notice that the moment Saddams regime fell the suicide bombings in Israel slowed to a crawl. That is because Saddam was funding the bombings and providing the families of the "martyrs" with enough money to take care of thier widows and families for the rest of their lives. These people werent blowing themselves up for religions or politics it was mostly so their family wouldnt starve.

Ever notice the per capita GDP of Israel compared to that of the palestinians? For two people who share much of the same land, the GDP per capita of the average Israeli is nearly $20,000USD. GDP per capita for the palestinians is around $1000USD. It's a sad reality when a suicide bomber feels so strongly about the conditions that he/she is forced to live in to end one's life to help support their family (Saddam gave a one time gift of $25,000USD to the family of a suicide bomber - hardly enough to "take care of their widows and families for the rest of their lives", especially since that is the average per capita GDP of an Israeli citizen). I disagree - it has a LOT to do with the politics of the region, and the conditions that these occupied people live under.

[max_boost]

What's the situation with Saddam anyway? I remember reading in the Calgary Sun that he tipped off the Americans telling them where he hid billions of dollars in fake business accounts throughout Switzerland, Japan etc. Was there any truth to that?

[rogue]

yea it was not a ONE TIME GIFT and that has been proven and i agree it is sad that some are rich and some are poor but that is life. What can you do about that make the israelis give the palastians (the people who kill their woman and children on buses and restaurants) money? realisticaly there is never gonna be an end to this and if there will be i will be amazed. What will make the palastinians happy? When all jews are dead? When all the jews are gone out of israel? THAT IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN so they better learn to change with the times instead of living 2000 yrs behind the rest of the world. I feel very sorry for the palastinians and the lebanese that suffered for so many years but i equally feel sorry for the innocent israelis that get blown up by some crazy idiot with a chest rig. I only side with israel on some occasions because if you look at it they are hated by almost the whole world for the last 2000yrs, Hitler almost killed the entire race because he was jealous that they were making so much money in germany and were so successfull. The egyptians used them as cattle for hundreds of years and they didnt have a homeland for 1000 or so yrs. They fought a war where 3 countries attacked them at once and they won and to me that shows their resolve, they arent going anywhere. I hope the israelis are able to make a seperate palastine a viable concept because just like the jews they deserve their own country ( instead of living in tents in lebanon and Jordan). And if you all feel so sorry for the palastinians what about the poor Kurds? Saddam killed hundreds of thousands with gas and executed whole towns (dont they deserve their own country?). He also killed thousands of Iranians with gas (woman and children that is NOT SOLDIERS) so anyone who thinks it wasnt right to go and get him is a blind fool.

[04blackMAX]

Originally posted by Toma
Big surprise eh? The official hunt is over, turned up nothing.

Former inspector Ritter was on CNN today saying that DNA tests at sites where Iraq claimed it had destroyed its Antrhax several years ago, confirm that in fact Antrhax had been destroyed there.

Looks like even more evidence that Iraq was telling the truth...

All hail America, bringer of truth, justice, and world domination ;)


whos side are you on........turned up nothing u say...hmmmmm only one of the most insane man is what turned up.....if thats nothing man i think u should think again.....whos side are you on anyways.......hey there taliban toma hahahahahaha:nut:

[rogue]

good point we shouldnt have had the first gulf war. We should have let saddam take another country and kill another 100 000 innocent people. And no i am not brainwashed i FEEL for any human being in the situation the palastianians are but i also understand the israelis. They have been attacked by EVERY neighbor they have (not cyprus doesnt count) the whole damn middle east is against them so i understand they want a nomansland buffer zone. What would you do if you were living in your neighboor hood and EVERY PERSON THERE wanted you DEAD. It is easy to them down and say THEY are the bad ones but i see it as they are ALL wrong but the problem is there is NO right. This will NOT be resolved!!!! and these western leaders are NOT war criminals and if they are i would like proof thank you. Areil Sharon is not a good man but he is no worse then that dinosaur Arafat and at least the israelis TARGET military and terrorists. Of course there is collateral damage as it is war but the palastinians porposely target innocents and that is what is the deciding factor in world opinion. THAT IS THE TRUTH. If i had a gun and i was standing there and people started shooting and throwing stones and yelling racial comments at me it would be hard for me not to shoot. Put your self in THEIR shoes too not just one side. I dont have a side i think they are all idiots. THANK GOD FOR CANADA.

[rogue]

oh yea and Toma if you mean "hit back any way you could" by killing woman and children in a restaurant then we dont need your kind in this peaceful country thank you very much. I think you should fight for your rights and do what you can but non-combatants are NOT FAIR GAME!!!!! :drama:

[04blackMAX]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by rogue
What will make the palastinians happy? When all jews are dead? When all the jews are gone out of israel?

Yes, I'm sure the Palestinians would be happy if the Jews gave back the land that they stole. I don't think the Palestinians give two shits if all the Jews are dead, and that has nothing to do with anything.


THAT IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN so they better learn to change with the times instead of living 2000 yrs behind the rest of the world.

Did you fall asleep during CNN's nightly news and get the sides switched? If anyone, it would be the Israelis who are two millieniums behind in thinking that they have any right to the land. And the rest of the world agrees with the Palestinians, not Israel.


I feel very sorry for the palastinians and the lebanese that suffered for so many years but i equally feel sorry for the innocent israelis that get blown up by some crazy idiot with a chest rig. I only side with israel on some occasions because if you look at it they are hated by almost the whole world for the last 2000yrs, Hitler almost killed the entire race because he was jealous that they were making so much money in germany and were so successfull. The egyptians used them as cattle for hundreds of years and they didnt have a homeland for 1000 or so yrs.

Get a library card and go read some books. Seriously. There's nothing worse than knowing not even the tip of the iceberg and then drawing all these conclusions.


They fought a war where 3 countries attacked them at once and they won and to me that shows their resolve, they arent going anywhere.

No, it shows the amount of military aid that they received from America. America uses them as their thug in the middle east-- a satellite power. If the Americans say jump, the Israelis would eagerly ask how high.


I hope the israelis are able to make a seperate palastine a viable concept because just like the jews they deserve their own country ( instead of living in tents in lebanon and Jordan).

They won't. The whole world supports a Palestinian homeland but the Israelis have done everything they can to prevent a peaceful settlement (and that's quite a bit). There's been countless UN resolutions that say that Israel's actions against the Palestinians and Lebanon is (being really easy on them) international terrorism, or if you were to call it what it is, outright aggression. By the very definition of terrorism, Israel's actions follows it to a T. Don't take my word for it, read up on it yourself. If you don't believe me, I'll list a whole bunch of examples for you. The Israeli government prays for suicide bombings, because then they can throw diplomatic means right out the window. Ever notice how anytime the two sides are even close to having seroius talks the Israelis purposely pull inflammatory stunts to provoke the Palestinians?


And if you all feel so sorry for the palastinians what about the poor Kurds? Saddam killed hundreds of thousands with gas and executed whole towns (dont they deserve their own country?). He also killed thousands of Iranians with gas (woman and children that is NOT SOLDIERS) so anyone who thinks it wasnt right to go and get him is a blind fool.

You know who Saddam's biggest ally was at that time?

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by rogue
I think you should fight for your rights and do what you can but non-combatants are NOT FAIR GAME!!!!! :drama:

Then why are there so many Palestinian civilians killed by the Israeli army? And why is that not a crime?

[rogue]

i am not defending americans i know they screw up all the time but i believe that taking saddam out was a good idea. The israelis didnt take the land the British gave it to them and who cares 1000yrs ago they took the land from them and so on and so on there is nothing anyone can do they are THERE NOW. And if the palastinians dont give 2 shits if all israelis were dead then israel should erase all palastinian existence (they could in a day) but i believe they dont want to see all this pain and suffering i am just hoping there is still a little humanity in the middle east. Now how about you get a library card and read up on some history so you can come up with an actual rebuttle that make sense instead of "I DONT THINK THEY GIVE 2 SHITS" you obviosly dont think period!!!

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by rogue
I dont have a side i think they are all idiots.

Wonderful conclusion to an equally wonderful response.

[rogue]

the army doesnt TARGET civilians but unfortuntly the terrorists/ freedom fighters are hiding in civilians territories. They hide withing the civilians hoping they get a death toll so they can use it politically just as the israelis as you said. The whole thing is screwed up due to politics and religion and it is very unforunate. I dont understand why you are all argueing with me when I state that i am not on either side i EQUALLY feel sorry for all these unforunate soles but i will not pick a side like you all did and condemn people (any people ) for their race or religion. When i read all of you talking about israel being an agressor i wonder if you remember that war in the 50s when 3 muslim countries attacked israel? I really wish there was a way they can live together ok and the region could finally live in the way it deserves.

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by rogue
The israelis didnt take the land the British gave it to them and who cares 1000yrs ago they took the land from them and so on and so on there is nothing anyone can do they are THERE NOW.

The disputed area now has nothing to do with the British mandated land. Also, if you look at the area occupied by Israel now it's grown significantly from what land the british gave them. Also "who cares 1000yrs ago they took the land from them and so on and so on" isn't even an argument. Raping and pillaging used to be accepted 1000yrs ago, but it isn't now. So if someone burned a house down and raped the family inside, would you say "well, 1000yrs ago they did that and so on and so on"?


And if the palastinians dont give 2 shits if all israelis were dead then israel should erase all palastinian existence (they could in a day) but i believe they dont want to see all this pain and suffering i am just hoping there is still a little humanity in the middle east. Now how about you get a library card and read up on some history so you can come up with an actual rebuttle that make sense instead of "I DONT THINK THEY GIVE 2 SHITS" you obviosly dont think period!!!

You missed the whole point of my comment. "[seeing] all the jews dead" would appease no one and your suggestion of that was pointless and had nothing to do wtih the topic. They want their land back. It's as simple as that. If someone kicked you out of your house, you'd sure as hell want it back, right? Seeing all of "them" dead has nothing to do with it. I'm just making that point.

[rogue]

it is wonderful as they are idiots for killing each other it never has to come down to this. Any one who kills is an idiot am i not right? I am not calling all israelis and palastinians idiots i am calling the governments and politicans idiots (and the people they so call "control")

[04blackMAX]

is this not the huge breated ladies section...opps silly me......:poosie:

[rogue]

i agree i said they should get their land back where have you been. I said OF COURSE they deserve their land back as it was taken in War but that war is still waging and unfortunatly as long as that war is ongoing i dont see any conclusion. I would like to see a free palastine without gates and armed gaurds who wouldnt?

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by rogue
i wonder if you remember that war in the 50s when 3 muslim countries attacked israel? I really wish there was a way they can live together ok and the region could finally live in the way it deserves.

I wonder if you remember the war of 1956, in which Israel launched an attack against Egypt, as outlined by the secret Sevrés Protocol, in which the French and English supported the invasion and later placed their own armies in Egypt, and were later forced to retreat because of a Soviet backed UN security resolution.

Is that the same war you are talking about?

[rogue]

the british too egypt for the suez.

[rogue]

it was a pre emptive strike against Egypt as all of their allies attacked and their military was in place to launch an attack that is why they made the first move which is smart in a military way of thinking.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by rogue
it was a pre emptive strike against Egypt as all of their allies attacked and their military was in place to launch an attack that is why they made the first move which is smart in a military way of thinking.

:rofl:

You just said that 3 "muslim" countries attacked Israel. I'm trying to find this on these darned online encyclopaedias, but it doesn't seem to be in there...I guess they forgot that event in history. Kindly point me towards the war of the 1950s where several arab nations attacked Israel.

[rogue]

ahhhh i am going to bed we shall argue tommorrow.:D actually tommorrow is friday maybe we can continue this on Monday?:thumbsup: I am just joking i apologize if i offended anyone but i just get heated when i see so much needless suffering by so many IT JUST REALLY GETS TO ME. Just do me a favour and dont forget Jews are people too, they bleed the same blood we bleed and they cry the same tears we cry when their loved ones die. I wish and pray that every country can be as fortunate as ours and that one day everyone can grow past all this needless hatred.:(

[rogue]

i saw it on history channel. Gotta use the starchoice for something. :thumbsup:

[rogue]

also i just want to note that i wrote "MUSLIM" because it is a religous conflict and for no other reason and that should be common sence as i dont see different religions and races. Thank you and good night.:D

[Weapon_R]

Before you go:

The Arabs never attacked Israel in the 1950s. The war of 1956 was largely a secret attack by the Israeli government without warning, against Egypt. The war of 1967 was another unprecedented attack by Israel against Egypt, Syria, and Jordan. The war of 1973 was an attack by the Egyptian armed forces. Please ensure that your facts are straight. The "muslims" never attacked Israel during the 1950s or 1960s. Instead, it was the Israeli's that attacked the Arab nations.

[rogue]

sorry must have been the 60s but it read they were under threat and that is why this war occured but didnt last long. You corrected me on the date but not on the content thanks for looking that up for me but tommorrow i will just think it happened in the 70s as i suck with dates.:D

[04blackMAX]

ohhh and bringing the world trade center towers down was ok....we have all suffered hardship....shit you guys can talk about this all night go back 1000 of years......war is wrong, as any expense, but the world needs some control, some guidlines, freedom, and most of all peace!!!

[rogue]

TOMA YOU ARE A SMART ONE. Saddam couldnt help these children with his BILLIONS COULD HE. Sanctions didnt kill these poor children Saddams greed and war mongering attitude did. He spent all his countries money to build a military when the kids died and starved. Nope makes no sense :dunno: .

[rogue]

NO MORE I WANT TO GO TO BED!!!!!:D

[04blackMAX]

yeah i agree rouge,,,, that country could have had wealth , all it needed was a solid leader, but they got stuck with this eras hitler

[Hakkola]

Some of you have to remember Isreal and Jews are not completely synonymous, there are lots of Isreali citizens who are not Jewish, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of the leaders weren't practicing jews. I don't think religion has too much to do with the troubles in the middle east.

I'm not going to say too much more yet... I'm curious to know some more info on how modern day Isreal was created, how long it had been since Isreal existed before etc... Was there a huge jewish population already in the region?

[rogue]

yea there are Many arab israelis but they are not treated fairly. I dont think they are allowed to vote and they cant travel openly like the Jews which is just wrong, BUT i can see the jew side too because you cant tell who will have a bomb on their chest. Sad state of affairs. The area under British control and after WW2 and what happened to the Jews they decided to create a land for them. They pretty gave the jews a chunk of palastine and they were supposed to share and live peacefully but unfortunatly Jerusalem shares some of the most holy sites in the muslim world, judiasm and christians which is why it is such a hot spot. I might have some small facts wrong but i think that is the jist of it. I dont claim to be right about all this it is just my view.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by 04blackMAX
ohhh and bringing the world trade center towers down was ok....we have all suffered hardship....shit you guys can talk about this all night go back 1000 of years......war is wrong, as any expense, but the world needs some control, some guidlines, freedom, and most of all peace!!!

The WTC attack was peanuts compared to the atrocities that the U.S. has committed in the past. Here is a partial, and incomplete list of some of the interesting endeavors that they have partaken:

PHILIPPINES, 1898 - 1910: seizes from Spain, 600,000 Filipinos killed
PUERTO RICO, 1898: seizes from Spain

PANAMA, 1901 - 14: separates country from Colombia and annexes canal zone

HONDURAS, 1903: US marines intervene against revolution

NICARAGUA, 1912 - 33: 20-year occupation and war against guerrillas

HAITI, 1914 - 34: occupation

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, 1916 - 24: occupation

CUBA, 1917 - 33: military occupation, made into economic protectorate

RUSSIA, 1917 - 22: troops sent five times to try to overthrow revolution

YUGOSLAVIA, 1919: marines intervene against Serbs

PANAMA, 1925: marines suppress general strike

CHINA, 1927 - 34: marines stationed throughout the country

EL SALVADOR, 1932: warships sent during revolt

JAPAN, 1945: firebombs Tokyo and other cities, drops atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki

PUERTO RICO, 1950: independence rebellion crushed

KOREA, 1950 - 53: US and South Korea fight China and North Korea to stalemate. US threatens to use nuclear bombs. At least two million Korean civilians killed or wounded

IRAN, 1953: CIA overthrows democracy

GUATEMALA, 1954: CIA directs invasion after government nationalized land belonging to US United Fruit company

LEBANON, 1956: US troops land

VIETNAM, 1960 - 75: two million Vietnamese killed in longest US war

INDONESIA, 1965: one million killed in CIA-assisted coup

GUATEMALA, 1966: troops intervene

CAMBODIA, 1969 - 75: US carpet-bombs. Two million killed by years of bombing and starvation

CHILE, 1973: CIA-backed coup overthrows democratically elected government

ANGOLA, 1976 - 92: CIA assists South African backed rebels

LIBYA, 1981: two Libyan jets shot down

EL SALVADOR, 1981 - 92: troops and air power assist death squads, 75,000 people killed

NICARAGUA, 1981 - 90: CIA directs Contra invasions

LEBANON, 1982 - 84: US forces intervene, navy shells Beirut

HONDURAS, 1983 - 89: US troups build bases for death squads

GRENADA, 1983: US invasion

LIBYA, 1986: capital Tripoli bombed in effort to kill President Gadaffi

IRAN, 1987: Iranian passenger jets shot down over Persian Gulf

PANAMA, 1989 - 90: invasion, thousands of civilians killed

GULF WAR, 1990 - 91: US-led coalition kills 100,000 Iraqis. Post war sanctions kill an estimated one million civilians in the following ten years

SOMALIA, 1992 - 94: US-led United Nations occupation

EX-YUGOSLAVIA, 1995: bombs Serbs and assists ethnic cleansing

SUDAN, 1998: bombs pharmaceutical factory

IRAQ, 1998: four days of air strikes, raids continue until present
day

SERBIA 1989: 78 days of NATO air strikes

AFGHANISTAN, 2001: US-led war kills thousands

IRAQ, 2002/3: ...

[04blackMAX]

yes i understand that, i didnt mean that any of it was ok.....its sad inncocent have to parish, i think we are a lil off topic of the actual thread topic.....

[rogue]

it is almost the same thing that happened in Cyprus minus the religion (for the most part) a country that was/is divided

[rogue]

that list is stupid. That is 100 yrs of history do you want to bring up the ottoman empire, british empire or even the romans and how many and wars and deaths there were. And what about the serbia thing how did they "assist in ethinic cleansing"? They were trying to protect the bosnian muslims and bring stability to the region. I know America goes to war alot but dont forget Saddam was ONE LEADER that started all those wars and committed all of those atrocities but you listed what 20 presidents? Do you wanna see EVERY AMERICAN that lived during those times tried as war criminals or are you REALLY trying to justify sept.11? There is NO justification.

[rogue]

ok REALLY GOIN TO BED NOW so for me this post is :closed: you guys can continue argueing about something that none of us have any power to resolve with out me. Good night all and dont let those bed bugs bite.:D :angel:

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by rogue
that list is stupid. That is 100 yrs of history

I'd like to think that humanity was relatively civilized by then...

[Toma]

Originally posted by rogue
TOMA YOU ARE A SMART ONE. Saddam couldnt help these children with his BILLIONS COULD HE. Sanctions didnt kill these poor children Saddams greed and war mongering attitude did. He spent all his countries money to build a military when the kids died and starved. Nope makes no sense :dunno: .

When you cannot get penicilin, morphine etc, no money in the world would help. Infrastructure, roads etc were also continuously bombed even after the war, and in some areas even during "peace" even the red cross would not deliver

The number one killer of course was that Iraqs water treatment plants were destroyed, so Iraqis did not have good clean drinking water. Then they sanctioned supplies needed to repair them, and chemicals needed to treat the water.

[rogue]

wow your right the whole thing is justified. You really opened my eyes. How is it during sactions Saddam was able to rebuild his military but noooooooo he couldnt get water and medicine to his people. He let them die to try to bring world opinion down on the US and their sanctions which some countries, Germany, Russia, and later France did follow completely (those are just the european countries.) He could have saved his people if he wanted and that is teh truth dont try to lie your way out of this, Now WHO is the one using media as a tool to veil the truth? I also dont care if you are Serbian or freakin from brazil does that all of a sudden mean you Know soooooo much. Were you in Srebrenica when it was bombed or did you actually live in Saraevo? Grow up and open your eyes and see Saddam was evil and was around to long.

[Weapon_R]

Did I hear you correctly? You don't believe the Serbians were engaged in ethnic cleansing?

[Super_Geo]

Grow up and open your eyes and see Saddam was evil and was around to long.

Does it bother you that when Saddam was doing his worst attrocities he was one of the US and Britian's allies? Fact of the matter is that Iraq was doing the US a valuable service in the 80s. In fact, Iraq was so important to the US that it is the only other country (aside from Israel, who got away with it in 1967) that was let off the hook for 'accidentally' blowing up an American vessel.

Iraqi missiles hit a US destroyer in the Gulf in 1988, killing around 37 sailers and the US didn't care... they let it go. Think about it. You'd have to be pretty high on the list of friends for that to happen. Oh, and if you were wondering, this is the same time that Saddam was doing all his evil stuff. Britian and the US didn't have a single problem with it then.


wow your right the whole thing is justified. You really opened my eyes. How is it during sactions Saddam was able to rebuild his military but noooooooo he couldnt get water and medicine to his people.

If you opened a history book I think you'd find the answer. But I'll take a stab at it. During the Gulf War, the Americans military planners targted facilities that, without, would escalte the rate of civilian suffering. That includes water treatment plants, roads, electrical generators, etc. Basically, if your popuation has no clean water or electricity and the infrastructure is destroyed, your civilians are going to suffer.

The oil for food program was a farce. Saddam did trade oil for food (and you know, it's really funny... because even at this stage it's so blatantly clear that in the end it's all about oil), and there was food and medicine in the country, but most of it stayed at the warehouses because it was impossible to distribute with no infrastructure. The Red Cross was there and complained heavily about it.

Around this time, Madeline Albright was told that nearly half a million children had died due to starvations caused by the sanctions (that's equivalent to 125 cases of September 11th, by the way) and was asked if she thought that was justified to provide security to the Americans. She blankly said "yes" because Iraq has WMDs, which poses a risk to Americans and therefore it really doesn't matter that much if that many Iraqi die. And now, there have been no traces of WMD found in Iraq. Think about that...

It's true that Saddam had the power to save his people's lives if he stepped down or gave up his power, but there was no way he was going to ever do that. Just like the US would never give up the sanctions. So they both knew that their actions were responisble for the deaths of over a million people (who thank God weren't white... because that would make it actually significant), and they are both just as responsible. You call Saddam a monstor. Well, he is. And the US government isn't any better.


I also dont care if you are Serbian or freakin from brazil does that all of a sudden mean you Know soooooo much. Were you in Srebrenica when it was bombed or did you actually live in Saraevo? Grow up and open your eyes and see Saddam was evil and was around to long.

Go read a book.

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by rogue
that list is stupid. That is 100 yrs of history ...

... Do you wanna see EVERY AMERICAN that lived during those times tried as war criminals or are you REALLY trying to justify sept.11? There is NO justification.

You still don't get it, do you?

Did you see how pissed off the Americans got when 9/11 happened? And that was over only 4000 lives. Think of how other countries reacted when America's actions were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of lives.

The big picture is there, and you're either choosing not to see it or you're not capable of it.

If there's no justification for 9/11, what's the justification for all the atrocities that the Americans have done? By comparison what the US had to go through with 9/11 is insignificant to what they've caused in other countries. And look how they reacted :rolleyes:

[The Cypriot]

Originally posted by rogue
it is almost the same thing that happened in Cyprus minus the religion (for the most part) a country that was/is divided

I'n new on the forum and haven't been keeping up...what were you referring to specifically?

[The Cypriot]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


The WTC attack was peanuts compared to the atrocities that the U.S. has committed in the past. Here is a partial, and incomplete list of some of the interesting endeavors that they have partaken:

PHILIPPINES, 1898 - 1910: seizes from Spain, 600,000 Filipinos killed
PUERTO RICO, 1898: seizes from Spain

PANAMA, 1901 - 14: separates country from Colombia and annexes canal zone

HONDURAS, 1903: US marines intervene against revolution

NICARAGUA, 1912 - 33: 20-year occupation and war against guerrillas

HAITI, 1914 - 34: occupation

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, 1916 - 24: occupation

CUBA, 1917 - 33: military occupation, made into economic protectorate

RUSSIA, 1917 - 22: troops sent five times to try to overthrow revolution

YUGOSLAVIA, 1919: marines intervene against Serbs

PANAMA, 1925: marines suppress general strike

CHINA, 1927 - 34: marines stationed throughout the country

EL SALVADOR, 1932: warships sent during revolt

JAPAN, 1945: firebombs Tokyo and other cities, drops atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki

PUERTO RICO, 1950: independence rebellion crushed

KOREA, 1950 - 53: US and South Korea fight China and North Korea to stalemate. US threatens to use nuclear bombs. At least two million Korean civilians killed or wounded

IRAN, 1953: CIA overthrows democracy

GUATEMALA, 1954: CIA directs invasion after government nationalized land belonging to US United Fruit company

LEBANON, 1956: US troops land

VIETNAM, 1960 - 75: two million Vietnamese killed in longest US war

INDONESIA, 1965: one million killed in CIA-assisted coup

GUATEMALA, 1966: troops intervene

CAMBODIA, 1969 - 75: US carpet-bombs. Two million killed by years of bombing and starvation

CHILE, 1973: CIA-backed coup overthrows democratically elected government

ANGOLA, 1976 - 92: CIA assists South African backed rebels

LIBYA, 1981: two Libyan jets shot down

EL SALVADOR, 1981 - 92: troops and air power assist death squads, 75,000 people killed

NICARAGUA, 1981 - 90: CIA directs Contra invasions

LEBANON, 1982 - 84: US forces intervene, navy shells Beirut

HONDURAS, 1983 - 89: US troups build bases for death squads

GRENADA, 1983: US invasion

LIBYA, 1986: capital Tripoli bombed in effort to kill President Gadaffi

IRAN, 1987: Iranian passenger jets shot down over Persian Gulf

PANAMA, 1989 - 90: invasion, thousands of civilians killed

GULF WAR, 1990 - 91: US-led coalition kills 100,000 Iraqis. Post war sanctions kill an estimated one million civilians in the following ten years

SOMALIA, 1992 - 94: US-led United Nations occupation

EX-YUGOSLAVIA, 1995: bombs Serbs and assists ethnic cleansing

SUDAN, 1998: bombs pharmaceutical factory

IRAQ, 1998: four days of air strikes, raids continue until present
day

SERBIA 1989: 78 days of NATO air strikes

AFGHANISTAN, 2001: US-led war kills thousands

IRAQ, 2002/3: ...


Yeah right buddy....keep dreaming. Next your going to tell me that Lebanon ruled that world! That'll be the day. Cyprus could take them out....if we had a navy or airforce..:guns:

[rice_eater]

I agree with super_geo...the states has been fuckin arround for SOO damn long, pissing people off left and right as much as they could, and honestly they deserved 9/11. They did it to themselves and they need to suffer the consequences. And dont tell me about innocent people in the states because if they pick their leaders themselves and if that's who they ellect year after year then they deserve their fate. Honestly i'm suprised there haven't been more attacks on the US. Maybe when more people stood up to them they will get their heads out of their asses and realize that their shit does stink. Like all previous major empires of the world did before, America will eventually fall. I just hope we don't go down with them

[itsalebaron]

Originally posted by rice_eater
I agree with super_geo...the states has been fuckin arround for SOO damn long, pissing people off left and right as much as they could, and honestly they deserved 9/11. They did it to themselves and they need to suffer the consequences. And dont tell me about innocent people in the states because if they pick their leaders themselves and if that's who they ellect year after year then they deserve their fate. Honestly i'm suprised there haven't been more attacks on the US. Maybe when more people stood up to them they will get their heads out of their asses and realize that their shit does stink. Like all previous major empires of the world did before, America will eventually fall. I just hope we don't go down with them

.....as he putts off in his Dodge Neon ... listening to his American CDs, on his way home to watch American television......

Of course they deserved it right? YOU don't do anything to aid the American economy, do you? Maybe you didn't vote for the president, and a lot of people that died in 9/11 didn't either, but you certainly support him everyday, without even thinkin of it. Does that mean that you too deserve to die like the innocent people of 9/11??? :thumbsdow Your comment is BULLSHIT no one deserves to die.

[rogue]

i just want to say i respect EVERYONES opinion and this thread is getting a little heated but the serbs DID execute 100 000s of innocent men ( I had friends and still do serving in the military and i heard the horror stories) and serbia (like iraq) attacked almost all of their neighbors. Serbia fought bosnia, croatia, kosovo ,threatened macedonia for a time and also threatened montenagro. Iraq fought Iran, Destroyed all the shiite muslims in southern iraq (and drained all the wetland water system in southern iraq just to get rid of them thus destroying a huge part of iraqs ecosystem) and bombed the crap out of the kurdish in the north killing hundreds of thousands. Kuwait was the last straw for the world to watch (and it did affect the world as kuwait supplies the western world with alot of oil). I just wanted to state that taking out the infrastructure is the first thing as a military objective (it is like cutting of you head) it destroys the enemies capabilities and the Americans were doing this because they initially were gonna go right through to Baghdad during the first war but the UN wouldnt let them so that is why it was so screwed up. And do you REALLY think that America would lose in a ground war with Serbia Toma? Be realistic if America called up their reserves they would have as many soldiers and the whole damn serbian population. America uses aircraft to soften targets and to keep american casualties down and that makes sense if you ask me. So in MY OPINION America would kick Serbias ass (Toma i hope you were joking about that or that really shows your ignorance) The ifrastructure was destroyed for invasion purposes (which the UN was ok with until Saddam said I GIVE UP I WILL STOP ATTACKING EVERYONE AND WEAPONS INSPECTORS ARE OK WITH ME) and Serbia and Iraq deserved it (as governments and dictators not as the poor individual civilian which my heart and prayers go out to.) Sorry to drag this on.

[Toma]

I guess the whole point is, you can be the bully all your life, everyone could wish you were dead, but in the end someone will slap you back. I don't understand the surprise when it does happen...

[rogue]

i am not surprised i just cant justify it. And Rice-eater the americans in the world trade towers deserved to die? Did you deserve to get your car wrecked? I DONT THINK EITHER WAS JUSTIFIED.:D You guys hate america so much you should stop watching american tv, eating at american restaurants, driving american cars (including most japanese cars made in the US) and this can go on forever. We rely on the US as much as they RELY on us for our power and water and so on.

[itsalebaron]

Originally posted by Toma

What kind of a bonehead arguement is that? Fuck, if we lived next door to russia it would be russian cars, or germany, german cars....

And I partially agree...not many people deserve to die, but a few do. Like Bush, Albright, and their other deceiptfull, lying allies who are responsible for millions of innocent deaths.

As for WTC. 2,400 lives were lost. Sad. But it is a drop in the bucket compared to the terror the US unleashes yearly.

I was using it to prove a point that the people in the WTC did not DESERVE to die. And if you support someones economy you are supporting them. So if you have such a problem with the country as you and rice_eater seem to, then why support them in anyway? You are just as "guilty" as rice_eater labled the people in the WTC. If it is such a bonehead comment then why in another thread did you argue that you do all you can to NOT support the US? Or did that just suit your argument in that case? Its the american car thing that really kills you isn't it? You know you do have MANY other choices in cars and products that ARE NOT American, so why drive a "9 second STANG"? Promote your "Fast Fords" page. You have this holier then thou attitude, and you can SAY you do this and do that but your arguments always contadict each other, but I guess that happens easily when you regurgitate only what you read from books. SO go on keep making your BONEHEAD anti-american when it suits me comments.

I am not going to get into the arguments going on in the rest of the thread as we all have our own opinions. I just do not agree that those people DESERVED to die, nor do I agree that any innocent people around the world DESERVE to die either.

[itsalebaron]

Originally posted by rogue
i am not surprised i just cant justify it. And Rice-eater the americans in the world trade towers deserved to die? Did you deserve to get your car wrecked? I DONT THINK EITHER WAS JUSTIFIED.:D You guys hate america so much you should stop watching american tv, eating at american restaurants, driving american cars (including most japanese cars made in the US) and this can go on forever. We rely on the US as much as they RELY on us for our power and water and so on.

Thats exactly what I mean, so many poeple here are so quick to jump on EVERYTHING the Americans do wrong, but they take all the perks from the US without any argument.

[04blackMAX]

Originally posted by rice_eater
I agree with super_geo...the states has been fuckin arround for SOO damn long, pissing people off left and right as much as they could, and honestly they deserved 9/11. They did it to themselves and they need to suffer the consequences. And dont tell me about innocent people in the states because if they pick their leaders themselves and if that's who they ellect year after year then they deserve their fate. Honestly i'm suprised there haven't been more attacks on the US. Maybe when more people stood up to them they will get their heads out of their asses and realize that their shit does stink. Like all previous major empires of the world did before, America will eventually fall. I just hope we don't go down with them


your a TOOL!!!!, us as a nation rely on the states so much, how can u say anyone deserves to die...all you guys do is american bashing, well fuk you .....lets see all you survive with out the good ol USof A....u guys just think the president sits down and says hey lets go kill some innocent people today...a part of war is a part is death, death of innocent people, childern, mothers, fathers....how can anyone in there right mind say that they desereved 911.....go live in iraq man.....cause its people with your attitude that make this world a shitty place!!!!!

[04blackMAX]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


The WTC attack was peanuts compared to the atrocities that the U.S. has committed in the past. Here is a partial, and incomplete list of some of the interesting endeavors that they have partaken:

PHILIPPINES, 1898 - 1910: seizes from Spain, 600,000 Filipinos killed
PUERTO RICO, 1898: seizes from Spain

PANAMA, 1901 - 14: separates country from Colombia and annexes canal zone

HONDURAS, 1903: US marines intervene against revolution

NICARAGUA, 1912 - 33: 20-year occupation and war against guerrillas

HAITI, 1914 - 34: occupation

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, 1916 - 24: occupation

CUBA, 1917 - 33: military occupation, made into economic protectorate

RUSSIA, 1917 - 22: troops sent five times to try to overthrow revolution

YUGOSLAVIA, 1919: marines intervene against Serbs

PANAMA, 1925: marines suppress general strike

CHINA, 1927 - 34: marines stationed throughout the country

EL SALVADOR, 1932: warships sent during revolt

JAPAN, 1945: firebombs Tokyo and other cities, drops atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki

PUERTO RICO, 1950: independence rebellion crushed

KOREA, 1950 - 53: US and South Korea fight China and North Korea to stalemate. US threatens to use nuclear bombs. At least two million Korean civilians killed or wounded

IRAN, 1953: CIA overthrows democracy

GUATEMALA, 1954: CIA directs invasion after government nationalized land belonging to US United Fruit company

LEBANON, 1956: US troops land

VIETNAM, 1960 - 75: two million Vietnamese killed in longest US war

INDONESIA, 1965: one million killed in CIA-assisted coup

GUATEMALA, 1966: troops intervene

CAMBODIA, 1969 - 75: US carpet-bombs. Two million killed by years of bombing and starvation

CHILE, 1973: CIA-backed coup overthrows democratically elected government

ANGOLA, 1976 - 92: CIA assists South African backed rebels

LIBYA, 1981: two Libyan jets shot down

EL SALVADOR, 1981 - 92: troops and air power assist death squads, 75,000 people killed

NICARAGUA, 1981 - 90: CIA directs Contra invasions

LEBANON, 1982 - 84: US forces intervene, navy shells Beirut

HONDURAS, 1983 - 89: US troups build bases for death squads

GRENADA, 1983: US invasion

LIBYA, 1986: capital Tripoli bombed in effort to kill President Gadaffi

IRAN, 1987: Iranian passenger jets shot down over Persian Gulf

PANAMA, 1989 - 90: invasion, thousands of civilians killed

GULF WAR, 1990 - 91: US-led coalition kills 100,000 Iraqis. Post war sanctions kill an estimated one million civilians in the following ten years

SOMALIA, 1992 - 94: US-led United Nations occupation

EX-YUGOSLAVIA, 1995: bombs Serbs and assists ethnic cleansing

SUDAN, 1998: bombs pharmaceutical factory

IRAQ, 1998: four days of air strikes, raids continue until present
day

SERBIA 1989: 78 days of NATO air strikes

AFGHANISTAN, 2001: US-led war kills thousands

IRAQ, 2002/3: ...


us kills thousands..us does this US does that...blah blah blah...what u think there were no american killed during any of these times?

[Toma]

Originally posted by 04blackMAX



your a TOOL!!!!, us as a nation rely on the states so much, how can u say anyone deserves to die...all you guys do is american bashing, well fuk you .....lets see all you survive with out the good ol USof A....u guys just think the president sits down and says hey lets go kill some innocent people today...a part of war is a part is death, death of innocent people, childern, mothers, fathers....how can anyone in there right mind say that they desereved 911.....go live in iraq man.....cause its people with your attitude that make this world a shitty place!!!!!
HAHAHAHA, you are the tool. If there was no America south of the border, what do you think....it would be an empty parking lot? Someone else would be there. We are hopelessly intertwined. If you hate Iraq so much, stop driving your car and using their oil. You bonhead....you were supporting Saddam all this time! Shame on you you traitor :poosie:

[04blackMAX]

i didnt say i hated iraq....lemme check...hmmmmm yeah not seeing that....look aagin......i hate innocent killing.....but you guys all bitch about the states.......they caught the dictator...enough said!!!.... now hopefully iraq can build up a city with structer and laws and live free and happy

[rogue]

Toma you are the only one that has been hating we are just supporting our opinions. I dont hate anyone to me we are all equal UNTIL somebody goes out of line (person or country) then you have to straighten them out before things get worse. That is what happened in Iraq and Serbia and Korea and this list can go on. Most of the conflicts you mentioned above in list included UN missions and NATO missions. And yes if someone else was south of the border we would be intertwined as well WOW YOU ARE SO SMART!!!! the point is there isnt and there never will be, the americans are our neighbors and friends sure we can make fun of them and think we are better and smarter then them but i consider that sibling rivalry between 2 brothers. You can mock them and get annoyed but you really shouldnt hate.

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by rogue
Toma you are the only one that has been hating we are just supporting our opinions.

But you've been using arguments that don't make sense and events that didn't happen... Toma and Weapon_R have been using actual historical events to back their arguments up, while you seem to base everything you say on something you saw on TV once way back when. :dunno:

[rogue]

actually the you guys are baffling me with your arguements like "there was no genoside in Serbia" "Serbia could take the Americans in a ground war" and that list of conflicts is just stupid, Somalia was a UN mission and america had nothing to gain as in Korea and serbia, Kosovo and some were to protect americans and regional stability such as Greneda, Panama , Cuba. I got a date wrong and that is it Israel fought 3 Agressive countries at once and that was my point that you shouldt underestimate them because they are fighting for their home just like those unfortunate palastinians, Now i dont want to open up that can of worms again because to me i dont feel one side is right and one is wrong i feel the Israelis are scared to let them to close and the Palastinians are scared and have much rage over the issue (which is understandable) So what is your actual stand on this boys? Do you think all americans and jews should die or just never ever help in the world theatre and let the world go to shit? where would bosnia be if America didnt step in? Where would Korea, WW1, WW2, Panama, Cuban missle crisis, Afghanastan couldnt of held of Russia without americas help. Even in Tibet the Americans were the ONLY country to try to help the poor Tibetians when China ran over that country (they dropped weapons and few advisors but to no avail as these people have no nature for war). Some wars are justified and taking out the next HITLER which to me was what Saddam was is justified. Do you relize that Saddam was using Nazi tactics in his wars. In Germany they attacked a country, took it over and said "we wont do it again" so Britain and other european powers did nothing because they did not want a war. After years of this Britain finally found Germany on their door step and couldnt say nothing anymore they HAD to go to war and being so indecisive cost them many lives. Moral of the story is you cant let a country like Iraq get control of powerful weapons or attack its neighbors and get away with it because things will just escalate and you will lose your advantage when Saddam has a shiny new Nuclear missle pointed at NORTH AMERICA,.

[rogue]

PS on the list says 1989=78 days of NATO airstrikes that is wrong. Dont forget to puy WW2 up there because America was in that war too.

WW2 - America intervened during peacefull uprising in europe resulting in 50 million lives.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/ww2-loss.htm

that looks like something Toma, Weapon R, super-geo or rice_eater would agree with i would think.


that link shows how much the Jews suffered during the second war and for all you IDIOTS who dont think the holocaust happened i think you should all take some time out to reflect on YOUR STUPIDITY.

[Toma]

Did you know more Russians gave their lives defending their country voluntarily then jews were murdered? Estimates put 20,000,000 to 30,000,000 russians perished, often defending their land with pitch forks and shovels.

I find it Ironic that Isrealis/Jews were such pacifists that allowed themselves to be sluaghtered by the millions in WW2, yet are so effective at slaughtering others today ???

[Toma]

Originally posted by rogue
actually the you guys are baffling me with your arguements like "there was no genoside in Serbia"

Well, look up the word genocide, and then get back to me. The bigget "genocide" was supposedly in Srebrenica where depending on the source, claims 7,000 to 8,000 MEN are missing and presumed murdered. Were they random men? Were they militants? terrorists? We may never know. It should be noted, taht even to this day, after digging up dozens of "mass graves" in the area, less then 1000 bodies have been found by the UN and US! In either respect, a few hundred men, or 7000 men, my friend, that is far from genocide.

Genocide... The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

As for later in Kosovo... UN facts after the war revealed that ONLY 6,000 people were killed in the whole year prior to the US invasion. Half were Serbs, half were Kosovar Albanians.....mainly Serb police, and Albanian militants. How the fuck is that genocide you brainless waste of skin? So the US goes in, starts to bomb, CAUSES over a million people to become homeless refuges, and then blames the Serbs.... all the while killing MORE CIVILIANS then were killed in the year prior. Notice that? 6,000 COMBATANTS killed in one year of war, versus 10,000+ CIVIILIANS killed by the Americans in 2.5 months. Not to mention the millions that suffered with no food, water, homes, clothes, heat etc...

I cannot believe the ignorance of some people.

[Super_Geo]

It's shocking how little you know about all those topics you're drawing conclusions on. Really, it is.


Originally posted by rogue
So what is your actual stand on this boys? Do you think all americans and jews should die or just never ever help in the world theatre and let the world go to shit?

What the hell is it with the "so what they should all die?" argument you keep bringing up? What are we? Still in grade 6?


where would bosnia be if America didnt step in? Where would Korea, WW1, WW2, Panama, Cuban missle crisis, Afghanastan couldnt of held of Russia without americas help.

So after CNN is done broadcasting their propaganda, do you read up on what follows? There wasn't genocide in Bosnia. It was all propaganda and media hype (like the WMDs were). When the dust settled and investigations began, it turns out that what the media was telling people were not true. Believe or not, CNN lied to you. You were given a smoke and mirror show and you went for it 100%. And then, years later, you go on a forum and blab on and on matter-of-factly about something that didn't happen.

The Cuban missile crisis was caused by the Americans. Without them the problem would've have existed. And Afghanistan? How ignorant are you? And see, the ignorance isn't a big deal... but the fact that you go matter-of-factly stating all these conclusions on matters that you know nothing about makes you seem pretty stupid. But hell, let's talk about Afghanistan. The Russians took over in a bloody war, and installed the only progressive government that Afghanistan had in the past century (rights for women, development of infrastructure, etc). And what does America do? They come in, take over, train Osama bin Laden and other extremists guerrilla warfare (which when you look back now is pretty fucking ironic), and installs the Taliban-- a government that's much worse to the people. So how is that a point? I don't see where you're coming from. It's honestly like talking to a little kid because you really don't know anything about what you're saying. Open a fucking book for christ's sake and then post.

[Weapon_R]

I love the fact that everyone thinks that the Cuban missile crisis was an act of Soviet aggression, but fails to note that the United States tried to previously invade Cuba illegally in the bay of pigs incident, and also placed long range nuclear missiles in Turkey, aimed at the Soviet Union. At that time, the Soviets had only a handfull of ICBMs able to reach the United States. The placement of these nuclear missiles in Cuba was used to help compensate for this difficiency, since there was no longer a need to place an emphasis on the development of long range missiles. Does anyone remember when the U.S. cried about "an act of war" when the Soviets shot down one of their planes? What the hell was it doing over Soviet-controlled territory to begin with??

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by rogue
Moral of the story is you cant let a country like Iraq get control of powerful weapons or attack its neighbors and get away with it because things will just escalate and you will lose your advantage when Saddam has a shiny new Nuclear missle pointed at NORTH AMERICA,.

So let me see if I'm reading you correctly... in the thread titled "Iraq weapons inspectors going home....empty handed" you're saying that America was right in bombing and invading Iraq because we can't let people like Saddam have powerful weapons. :banghead:

[Toma]

More on Srebrenica.... the aleged "massacre" is still debated by those that look for facts.

For Instance, at about the same time as the "massacre" took place, the Bosnian Army's 28th Division of 4000 men "dissapeared" en route from Srebrenica to Tuzla. One theory is that many of the missing were the Bosnian Army.

The other theory is that the massacre was actually serb villagers and farmers killed by the Bosnian Army's 28th Division....

Its funny how the story is unconfimred. "Eye wintess" accounts are hardly ever realiable when taken from the "enemy" during a time of war.

Many experts, including the then active Dutch Commander, Colonel Karremans argued that there was NO massacre at all, but were quickly silenced by their governments....

Russian sources have said that a battle took place beweent the Bosnian army in the area, and the advancing Serb army, however, they saw no evidence of ware crimes (ie, killing of POW's)....you need to remember, there is no law against 2 armies killing each other.

So, despite the propoganda, I do not think anyone really KNOWS what happend there, and it is the bigget case used by Nato and the US against the Serbs.

But was it a war crime?
Was it a massacre?
Was it a battle between 2 armies?
DId it happen at all?
Was it really serbs that were killed by the Bosnina Army?

We may never know, because the west used it as justification for their actions, and they NEED it to sound credible.

[04blackMAX]

either way iam 100% supporter of the good OL' US of A.......









:poosie:

[04blackMAX]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=american+flags/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://www.american-car-flags.com/images/flag_waving.jpg
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[rogue]

hey Toma you idiot my friends are in the military and just came back to CFB Borden on a tour in bosnia and you are FULL OF SHIT you "useless sack of skin". I KNOW there was genocide there why would this guy lie he has nothing invested but if you say so i guess YOU are right. You idiots can keep spouting your anti american bullshit and remember YOUR country CANADA bombed serbia too so if you dont like your own countries policies and think it sucks get the HELL out off the country and go back to your Serbia, lets see how YOU like it there.:guns:

[rogue]

I am officially done with this thread, argueing with BRAINLESS TOOLS is not my cup of tea. I say ship them off to Baghdad where they can ENJOY their NORTH AMERICAN freedoms. SEEEYAAAAAAAA:closed:

[finboy]

Originally posted by rogue
so if you dont like your own countries policies and think it sucks get the HELL out off the country

:rolleyes: :thumbsdow

[itsalebaron]

Originally posted by rogue
I am officially done with this thread, argueing with BRAINLESS TOOLS is not my cup of tea. I say ship them off to Baghdad where they can ENJOY their NORTH AMERICAN freedoms. SEEEYAAAAAAAA:closed:

:thumbsup:

[Toma]

hahahahaha, I suspect with them gone, the IQ level in here just doubled ;)

[itsalebaron]

Originally posted by Toma
hahahahaha, I suspect with them gone, the IQ level in here just doubled ;)

what since rogue left that makes "them"? maybe you should worry about improving your own IQ

[Toma]

Originally posted by itsalebaron


what since rogue left that makes "them"? maybe you should worry about improving your own IQ

Easy there fella...

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by itsalebaron


what since rogue left that makes "them"? maybe you should worry about improving your own IQ

I'd like for you to point to something here that was incorrectly stated by Toma before you insult his intelligence. He has stated verifiable facts throughout his posts, while you have contributed none.

[itsalebaron]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


I'd like for you to point to something here that was incorrectly stated by Toma before you insult his intelligence. He has stated verifiable facts throughout his posts, while you have contributed none.

Well actually I was stating that one person leaving the thread does not constitute the use of "them" so perhaps before he INSULTS other people's IQ he should get it straight. Nice to see an unbias MOD though, because he takes the same position as you he is free to insult various people in this thread including myself. Look at both the insults in my posts, and look a few posts up and you will see TOMA through an insult first. So deal with it I dont cry when he calls me a bonehead, I look at the souce and laugh it off. We all have different views here and I can respect some of what everyone has to say. I have chosen not to contribute much to this thread because of the last one, it really gets nowhere, an ANTI-USA thread shows up atleast once a week so I might as well let you guys have your fun. And I will keep my views in the positive, and SUPPORT the USA

:thumbsup:

[itsalebaron]

Originally posted by Toma


Easy there fella...

LOL what now you can dish out insults but can't take them? Didn't you say something about Americans being bullies? You sure you aren't American??? HAHAHAHAHAAHA


It honestly does seem the only people who are respecting others opinions are the ones who support the US. Nothing you say is going to change my mind about how I feel, as I am sure you are not going to change your mind either, I wouldn't expect anyone too. But the way I look at it is all anyone has to say is NEGATIVE, and in all facets of life that gets you nowhere. You can say oh if they weren't there someone else would, but can you guarentee they would be better? NOPE. How many GOOD things has the USA done? LOTS!!!! ....But you guys are all too closed minded in your conspiracy theories to see any of the good. Hell I am sure they could come up with theories for all of the bad as well, but of course those are all absurd. I never once argued against the facts you guys have presented, because they are straight out of a book, and who am I to argue. However I do not need a book and a bunch of facts to be a good human being. :thumbsup:

[Toma]

hahahaha...I can take it just fine ;) I am comfortable with my intellect. :poosie:

"They" was rogue, and blackmax.... When someone is as outgunned as those guys in terms of a discussion, their signal of defeat and withdrawl are the comments they resort to in the end...

ie blackmax... either way iam 100% supporter of the good OL' US of A....... He showed is true colors. Killing non americans is OK, killing americans is bad...

and rogue...well he verbally said he was leaving because he had no logical argument to offer.

You.... you said some stupid shit, and cannot back up what you say. Nothing wrong with telling you that. I did not say "YOU are stupid", I said your arguement was less then stellar ;)

Now that you made me explain myself, I am sure one or the other will be back with some more verbal encopresis ;)

[itsalebaron]

LOL well atleast it is nice to see you can take a joke.... And the only thing I have argued in the thread was the people in the WTC did not DESERVE to die, which you do agree with. As for the rest your right I am not getting into it, I have argued your facts were wrong, or even your arguments. Nor did I said I agree with them. I am also a strong supporter of the good ol' US of A lol ... but in no way do I agree with killing innocent people American or non- American.

I would like to know what "stupid shit" I said that I cannot back up? You argue points on what best suits YOU at the time. Check back over your posts, you say you do not support the US in anyway, but you DO. You say your a social anarchist yet you call for more violence in terms of solutions. You would be in support of the same thing the US is doing if it were against the US. Please explain how that makes any sense, if you care at all about HUMANITY.

You seem to find it easy to single people out for them not caring out anyone that ISN"T American but you fail to recognize that people of the USA are just as much HUMAN as anyone else on this earth.

SO please go on and point out what I have said that is stupid I would honestly like to hear this:thumbsup: And I DO appreciate you pointing out if my arguments are less then steller rather then jumping to the conclusion that I am stupid.

[itsalebaron]

I totally agree it is pretty had NOT to support the US economy at all .. though I would also argue its damn near impossible for me to become a full fledged vegan, and yet there are many poeple who ARE vegans. It limits the food they eat, the clothes they wear, the companies they support ....You may think this is another lame argument but it IS possible if you care so deeply about the cause NO? There ARE other options even if they are few, so I guess the US does improve our quality of living. Do you NEED a car? how many people around the world do without a car just fine?

I am not saying I could do it.. I couldn't. And whether we like to believe it or not we are very Americanized, and actually in enjoyable ways. Have you ever watched Canadian movies lol other then Strange Brew we are horrible. And yes there again the US movie industry creates a TON of job for Canadians. I guess where my whole point lies is everyone seems so quick to bash the US when we are just like the US we just like to hang back and let them do the dirty work.

The rest of your argument I do agree with. Like I said I did not in another post I did not agree with how the US was going about solving the problem. But then again I do support the troops, as some are my family, and I do wish for the same safety I wish for my family as I do for all the other familes around the world. Gods knows I wish we lived in a perfect world without war but it is just never going to happen.:dunno:

[max_boost]

The Americans should go back to their isolationist policies of the 1920's. :D I learnt that in highschool social studies so I will contribute that much.

[The Cypriot]

Originally posted by max_boost
The Americans should go back to their isolationist policies of the 1920's. :D I learnt that in highschool social studies so I will contribute that much.

I agree 100% :clap:

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by itsalebaron


Well actually I was stating that one person leaving the thread does not constitute the use of "them" so perhaps before he INSULTS other people's IQ he should get it straight. Nice to see an unbias MOD though, because he takes the same position as you he is free to insult various people in this thread including myself. Look at both the insults in my posts, and look a few posts up and you will see TOMA through an insult first. So deal with it I dont cry when he calls me a bonehead, I look at the souce and laugh it off. We all have different views here and I can respect some of what everyone has to say. I have chosen not to contribute much to this thread because of the last one, it really gets nowhere, an ANTI-USA thread shows up atleast once a week so I might as well let you guys have your fun. And I will keep my views in the positive, and SUPPORT the USA

:thumbsup:

Here's a thought. You've stated time and again, that you support the USA because your brother in law is there. Have you ever taken a minute to wonder, what better way to support your troops by supporting an effort to bring them home where they are safe instead of supporting the effort to place them within the range of a rocket propelled grenade? They are there for the wrong reasons, and that is why the stream of bodybags has not even slowed down for almost a year. As for the part about having to be unbiased, that is neither your decision, nor was that ever a requirement in taking up this position. If you think that because i'm a mod that I have to think the way you want me to, or anyone else for that matter, than i'd gladly hang up my title to post what I think is right. So stop crying about that. And to say that I am bias because I support Toma's ideology? Take a look in your own backyard. Or anywhere else around the world, for that matter. The last time I checked, Tony Blair looked out his window to see over 1 million Britons protesting this war. Surprise, i'm not the only one who disagrees with you...and no need to get upset about that :poosie:

[itsalebaron]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Here's a thought. You've stated time and again, that you support the USA because your brother in law is there. Have you ever taken a minute to wonder, what better way to support your troops by supporting an effort to bring them home where they are safe instead of supporting the effort to place them within the range of a rocket propelled grenade? They are there for the wrong reasons, and that is why the stream of bodybags has not even slowed down for almost a year. As for the part about having to be unbiased, that is neither your decision, nor was that ever a requirement in taking up this position. If you think that because i'm a mod that I have to think the way you want me to, or anyone else for that matter, than i'd gladly hang up my title to post what I think is right. So stop crying about that. And to say that I am bias because I support Toma's ideology? Take a look in your own backyard. Or anywhere else around the world, for that matter. The last time I checked, Tony Blair looked out his window to see over 1 million Britons protesting this war. Surprise, i'm not the only one who disagrees with you...and no need to get upset about that :poosie:


First of all I would love it if they pulled all the troops out of there and just brought them all home safely, think about that everyday. I have said many times I did not agree 100% with how the US was dealing with this matter.

As for the unbiased part, I think you totally misunderstood. I was not expecting you to be unbiased about the arguments, it was more a comment of allowing one member get away with insulting people in this post, but jumping on other when they throw insults back. It seems you were the only one getting that upset about the insults .. seems TOMA rogue and myself all took them well.

[rogue]

well you cant really take all this to serious people are always tough on a computer but none of us (i hope) would have the imaturaty to get this out of hand in person. I like that everyone gets all heated in these arguements it shows genuine passion for their opinions and that is what this country needs people with brains and opinions. I Dont agree with you guys but i honor your opinions that said seeya around.

[04blackMAX]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[04blackMAX]

Originally posted by Toma
hahahaha...I can take it just fine ;) I am comfortable with my intellect. :poosie:

"They" was rogue, and blackmax.... When someone is as outgunned as those guys in terms of a discussion, their signal of defeat and withdrawl are the comments they resort to in the end...

ie blackmax... either way iam 100% supporter of the good OL' US of A....... He showed is true colors. Killing non americans is OK, killing americans is bad...

and rogue...well he verbally said he was leaving because he had no logical argument to offer.

You.... you said some stupid shit, and cannot back up what you say. Nothing wrong with telling you that. I did not say "YOU are stupid", I said your arguement was less then stellar ;)


yeah thats what i said...killing innocent people of any culture is wrong, i do support the USA sorry my opinion..you have yours i have mine!!!
Now that you made me explain myself, I am sure one or the other will be back with some more verbal encopresis ;)

[04blackMAX]

i dont support innocent kills of any race!!

but i do feel the USA is doing what there doing for better of all mankind!!....when i say support i mean now, not 100 years ago

man you gotta learn to respect other peoples opinions!!!...

[Toma]

Originally posted by 04blackMAX
i dont support innocent kills of any race!!

but i do feel the USA is doing what there doing for better of all mankind!!....
man you gotta learn to respect other peoples opinions!!!...
LOL yeah, you mean doing it for the US economy.... by playing god....

And soon as you accept that I am right,and you are wrong, I will respect your opinion :poosie: Until then, I will accept it for what it is.... crap :)

[04blackMAX]

i never will man, theres a reason why your not in politics....all that has happned now and in the past if for a better today.....1000 have already died in this war, soilders and the innocent, some due to stupidity of US soilders, and some due to suicide bomings.....but all in all iraq qill be a better place...how can that be bad???

can i ask what country your from, sure your a canadain, but you mentioned your serbian....you have family there still?

[rogue]

you see Toma that statement you made right there makes you look like a Idiotic tool. You dont HAVE to respect the right to ones opinion but if you dont NOBODY will respect you. How old are you to be saying shit like that and how the hell can you run a succesfull business with a mentality like that. EVERYONES OPINION COUNTS.

[rogue]

he is slavic you can see it in his name if you check his company out. Of course you are gonna say there was no GENOCIDE in SERBIA you are SERBIAN HAHAHAHAHA. Thats like Nazis saying THERE WAS NO HOLOCAUST IT WAS ALL MADE UP, oh wait they do say that i guess you are not much different then are ya?:confused: