Newbie question about manual

[aznremixed94]

Starting to drive manual, doing pretty good just one thing I want to make sure I'm doing correct.

when slowing down to take a turn, what is the proper way of doing it? The way I have been taught is to:

1. use the breaks to slow down (ex.in 3rd gear)
2. clutch in
3. Rev match
4. Downshift to lower gear(in this case 2nd gear)
5. Take the turn

Or would I downshift first then use the breaks to slow down during the turn?

Is there a more quicker or efficient way? Or am I doing it wrong?

Thanks.

[Dodobird]

Originally posted by aznremixed94
Starting to drive manual, doing pretty good just one thing I want to make sure I'm doing correct.

when slowing down to take a turn, what is the proper way of doing it? The way I have been taught is to:

1. use the breaks to slow down (ex.in 3rd gear)
2. clutch in
3. Rev match
4. Downshift to lower gear(in this case 2nd gear)
5. Take the turn

Or would I downshift first then use the breaks to slow down during the turn?

Is there a more quicker or efficient way? Or am I doing it wrong?

Thanks.

I do pretty much what you said. However, I oftentimes don't need the brakes at all and just rely on engine-braking to slow the car down sufficiently for the turn.

[adam c]

it's cheaper to replace brake pads then it is to replace an engine, just remember that

[aznremixed94]

Okay thanks guys, so I'm guessing I should be braking to desired speed and before rpms gets to low before switching to a lower gear? Is it okay to be switching gears during the turn? Or should it be done before the turn?

[revelations]

Originally posted by adam c
it's cheaper to replace brake pads then it is to replace an engine, just remember that

totally, brakes are consumables... clutch and engine not so much !

But in turns, ya I rev match and put it in gear.

I try not to do it for fresh red lights for the reasons stated above.

[jsn]

I do pretty much what you do when I drive. For city driving you can switch gears during a turn if you to. If you're on the track and taking fast turns however you shouldn't be switching gears during a turn.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Kloubek]

^ I agree. As long as you're not overrevving the engine when downshifting, I don't think it is at all detrimental to the engine.

However, I disagree about the clutch. Yours might have lasted a long time, but any time your revs differ you're going to be putting stress on the clutch when it connects the tranny.

With this said, I would suspect it is much more damaging to a clutch when the driver isn't using it properly during acceleration as opposed to decelerating with it.

As far as the OP's question goes - that is pretty much what I do too.

[msommers]

I do the same steps at the OP, sometimes heel-toe.

If I'm approaching a red, I let the rpm's come down to ~1-1.5K and then quickly clutch in and throw it in neutral and clutch out. Wait for adjacent light to turn yellow, clutch in and put it in first.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[94boosted]

Originally posted by Kloubek
^ I agree. As long as you're not overrevving the engine when downshifting, I don't think it is at all detrimental to the engine.

However, I disagree about the clutch. Yours might have lasted a long time, but any time your revs differ you're going to be putting stress on the clutch when it connects the tranny.

With this said, I would suspect it is much more damaging to a clutch when the driver isn't using it properly during acceleration as opposed to decelerating with it.

As far as the OP's question goes - that is pretty much what I do too.

If your properly rev matching all of your down shifts your revs don't differ (or differ only slightly) so their shouldn't be any stress on the clutch.

OP your doing it right. A mixture of downshifting with rev matching & braking is the best way to do it. And like Sugarphreak said don't bother downshifting from 2nd to 1st when coming to a stop as first is geared low and usually your already going quite slow at this point.

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by aznremixed94

Or would I downshift first then use the breaks to slow down during the turn?


Don't do your braking or downshifting when turning. If you hit a slippery patch (or mis-match the revs on a downshift), this will cause your wheels to break loose at exactly the wrong time, and you can lose control. You don't even want to be lifting the throttle when turning.

[GQBalla]

i always have the vehicle in gear before a turn.
just habit i guess from riding my bike

[adam c]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I hate this fucking argument because it is completely unsubstantiated.

I have never... ever... had to replace a car engine because I down shift when coming to a stop; nor have I know anybody who has had to replace an engine because they down shift to come to a stop.

Even if somebody somehow damaged thier engine and it had wear in tear consitant with down shifting (whatever that might be), it is much more likely they did the damage by abuse or neglect and not from down shifting.

Not to mention I ALWAYS downshift and my clutch easily lasts for 100,000 to 200,000kms on average... which is probably just as consistant with somebody who sticks the clutch in every time they come to a stop.

What I can tell also you is I get 100,000kms on a pair of brake pads on any manual car I have ever driven.

So I spend 0$ on engine replacement and 0$ on pre-mature clutch replacement... meanwhile I get 2 to 3 times the life out my brakes/rotors/drums, so you tell me which is a more tangable cost benifit.

shit take a chill pill, maybe you haven't had to replace shit but not everyone is like you, there are people out there that can't drive a stick to save their life even though they bought a manual

you can actually sit behind your monitor and ridicule someone when you don't know the facts, maybe this person downshifts to 2nd or 3rd from 5th just to hear his fart cannon scream and thinks it's cool and doing that everytime will destroy your engine after a while

[Sugarphreak]

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[slinkie]

Originally posted by adam c
it's cheaper to replace brake pads then it is to replace an engine, just remember that

pls go



i downshift everywhere, recently some old guy flashed his lights at me for like 10 blocks so i pulled over expecting a confrontation and he said 'none of your brake lights are working'

when you engine break your injectors shut off so you save a lot of gas by downshifting. (more noticable in thirstier engines)

it does not wear your clutch if you rev match properly, it's a matter of muscle memory and the more you practice the easier and more "automatic" it will become.

[HiSpec]

Isn't it true that in some parts of the country it is illegal to engine brake?

[aznremixed94]

okay thanks guys, in some situations you need to break at last minute before you turn so I was curious whether it would be quick enough to pull it all off before the turn.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Kloubek]

^^ Also applies to imports with ridiculous coffee-can exhausts. :thumbsup:

[J-hop]

Originally posted by 94boosted


If your properly rev matching all of your down shifts your revs don't differ (or differ only slightly) so their shouldn't be any stress on the clutch.

OP your doing it right. A mixture of downshifting with rev matching & braking is the best way to do it. And like Sugarphreak said don't bother downshifting from 2nd to 1st when coming to a stop as first is geared low and usually your already going quite slow at this point.


^this, if you are rev-matching properly this won't put any extra stress on your clutch. If you are one of those grandmas that uses the clutch to bring the engine up to speed on downshifts then yes, not only does it put stress on the engine/clutch but its sloppy and you probably shouldn't be driving a standard transmission if you do this on a consistent basis, stick with a tiptronic :D .

OP you have a good grasp on the concept, now just focus on your smoothness, i've been driving standard for 8 years and I am still working on improving, you can never be too smooth!

[uptown.]

Originally posted by J-hop



^this, if you are rev-matching properly this won't put any extra stress on your clutch. If you are one of those grandmas that uses the clutch to bring the engine up to speed on downshifts then yes, not only does it put stress on the engine/clutch but its sloppy and you probably shouldn't be driving a standard transmission if you do this on a consistent basis, stick with a tiptronic :D .

OP you have a good grasp on the concept, now just focus on your smoothness, i've been driving standard for 8 years and I am still working on improving, you can never be too smooth!

are you saying engine braking is for grandmas???

[msommers]

If you're very slowly releasing the clutch to downshift and hence slow down, you're wearing out the clutch much faster than it needs to be. What happens when the clutch is all the way out or all the way in? Now what happens when it is halfway?

[slinkie]

Originally posted by uptown.


are you saying engine braking is for grandmas???

-___-

engine braking is not the same as not rev-matching downshifts

[J-hop]

Originally posted by slinkie


-___-

engine braking is not the same as not rev-matching downshifts

thank you! yes I was referring to people that do this:

- take foot off gas and depress clutch
- shift to lower gear
- slowly release clutch to bring the engine up to speed

I have a lot of friends that claim to be "good" standard drivers yet do this extremely sloppy technique. Rev matching can be kind of difficult at first as every car is slightly different but eventually it becomes second nature. Even my mom who hasn't driven standard in 10+ years was able to do decent rev matching when I let her take my car for a spin (she learned standard on a car with worn syncros so rev matching was a must), so if you can't do it or are to lazy to, you should probably consider an automatic.

[g-m]

anybody else double clutch? I almost always double clutch its just habit now. Always smooooooth and less synchro wear especially if you skip a gear.

[wintonyk]

Originally posted by g-m
anybody else double clutch? I almost always double clutch its just habit now. Always smooooooth and less synchro wear especially if you skip a gear.

do you drive a tractor?

[g-m]

no but none of my cars are new. Have you ever driven a car with bad synchros? I have no desire to rebuild a transmission, nor buy a newer (summer) car.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by g-m
anybody else double clutch? I almost always double clutch its just habit now. Always smooooooth and less synchro wear especially if you skip a gear.

I used to with my old car, my new(er), car I don't usually double clutch on upshifts but downshifts I usually do. +1 on the saving the transmission, on my dads old sports car he used to get pissed if I didn't double so I got used to it.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by J-hop


thank you! yes I was referring to people that do this:

- take foot off gas and depress clutch
- shift to lower gear
- slowly release clutch to bring the engine up to speed

I have a lot of friends that claim to be "good" standard drivers yet do this extremely sloppy technique. Rev matching can be kind of difficult at first as every car is slightly different but eventually it becomes second nature. Even my mom who hasn't driven standard in 10+ years was able to do decent rev matching when I let her take my car for a spin (she learned standard on a car with worn syncros so rev matching was a must), so if you can't do it or are to lazy to, you should probably consider an automatic.

Lol, You can drive a manual without revmatching and still have the clutch last forever. It's definitely not necessary.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by g-m
anybody else double clutch? I almost always double clutch its just habit now. Always smooooooth and less synchro wear especially if you skip a gear.

Only into 2nd gear when my truck is really cold. Otherwise I don't bother. It shifts good without it.

[Everlast]

Originally posted by g-m
anybody else double clutch? I almost always double clutch its just habit now. Always smooooooth and less synchro wear especially if you skip a gear.

I always double clutch. It makes the shift that much smoother and "rewarding"

[J-hop]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


Lol, You can drive a manual without revmatching and still have the clutch last forever. It's definitely not necessary.

ok grandma :D :D

[benyl]

Plus, double clutching helps you be more in "tune" with your car. You know, it makes you feel it better to be "one" with it.

[Sugarphreak]

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[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by J-hop


ok grandma :D :D

Name calling or do you have an argument?

[sabad66]

Granny shifting, not double clutching like you should</vin diesel>

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by sabad66
Granny shifting, not double clutching like you should&lt;/vin diesel&gt;

This thread makes my head hurt.

[taemo]

Originally posted by GQBalla
i always have the vehicle in gear before a turn.
just habit i guess from riding my bike

race driving in general is like that.
it's better braking and down shifting to the right gear before entering a turn.