Muslim population of Canada will nearly triple over the next 20 years

[rob the knob]

Canada is changing quick. is this what pierre elliott trudeau intend to do with multicultural society?

is canada a muslim country in future? much change in the world with free and easy movement of peoples.

please keep civilized discussion.


For Muslims, growing numbers, and growing fears
SIRI AGRELL
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, Jan. 27, 2011 12:01AM EST
Last updated Thursday, Jan. 27, 2011 11:00AM EST


The Muslim population of Canada will nearly triple over the next 20 years, according to a new study of global demographic trends focusing on the faith.

The number of Canadians who identify themselves as Muslim will reach 2.7 million by 2030, up from approximately 940,000 today, and will make up 6.6 per cent of the total population.



Around the world, the Muslim population is expected to increase by about 35 per cent, rising to 2.2 billion by 2030 and increasing at about twice the rate of the non-Muslim population.

Wahida Valiante, national president of the Canadian Islamic Congress, said she is concerned that the numbers will be used by some to stoke the flames of anti-Islamic rhetoric.

“Every time we talk about a growth in the Muslim population there’s that sense of, ‘Oh, we’re going to lose the identifying features of our Christian country,’” she said. “If people are going to read this in the most negative way, then I’m very concerned.”

Alan Cooperman, associate director of research for the Forum on Religion & Public Life, said the report is meant not to stir up controversy, but to end uninformed speculation.

Before this study, which relies on census data and other national demographic records from more than 1,500 sources worldwide, there was no reliable global population data for the Muslim faith, he said, and estimates ranged wildly and irresponsibly.

And the numbers do merit attention, he said.

If current trends continue, Muslims will make up 26.4 per cent of the world’s total projected population of 8.3 billion in 2030, up from 23.4 per cent of the estimated 2010 world population of 6.9 billion.

Although the Pew Forum is non-partisan and Mr. Cooperman insisted the report does not come with policy prescriptions, he highlighted some specific shifts in population centres that could put pressure on certain regions.

“There are places like sub-Saharan Africa where the growth in numbers is just huge – millions of more Muslims being added,” he said.

By 2030, Pakistan – with 256.1 million people – will likely surpass Indonesia as the country with the single largest Muslim population.

In Europe, the number of Muslims is projected to exceed 58 million by 2030, up from 44.1 million in 2010. The biggest increases will likely occur in France, Germany and the Netherlands.

But perhaps the most visible increase, Mr. Cooperman said, will take place in North America, where immigration, fertility rates and the relatively youthful age of the Muslim population will cause the population to grow quickly compared to its relatively small base.

In Canada, Muslims are expected to make up 6.6 per cent of the total population in 2030, up from 2.8 per cent today. In the United States, the Muslim share of the population will rise to 1.7 per cent in 2030 from 0.8 per cent in 2010.

The sudden growth is partly explained by a higher fertility rate among Muslim Canadians, and the large percentage who are approaching their child-bearing years.

According to the 2001 Canadian census, the median age for Muslims in Canada was 28, compared with 37 for the general population. Nearly a third of Muslims in Canada were age 14 and younger, compared with 19.4 per cent of non-Muslims.

Mrs. Valiante said this number demonstrates the importance of not putting a negative spin on demographic patterns.

“We have a young, vibrant, very engaged youth community,” she said. “Their faith is intertwined with their self-identity, and so to continuously identify that faith as a very violent ideology, incompatible with democracy – that rhetoric has to be checked.”

But while Canada’s Muslim population is relatively young, Mr. Cooperman said the Pew study revealed that many countries with a majority Muslim population are aging rapidly.

“The so-called youth bulge, the high percentage of people in many of these Muslim majority countries who have been teenagers or young adults, has probably peaked and is now level or declining,” he said.

And that could have a major impact on the socio-political future of many nations. “An important factor of how restive societies are is the ratio of younger men to older men,” he said. “And that ratio is changing in many of these countries.”

Where the majority of Muslims live is also changing.

Slightly more than half of residents of Muslim-majority countries still live in rural communities, but they are moving to cities at a faster rate than people in the non-Muslim world. Because urban residents have fewer children, on average, than their rural counterparts, the migration pattern is causing an overall decline in fertility rates among Muslims.

And while the population of Muslims is still expected to expand faster than other groups, the Pew report found that it is noticeably slowing in relation to its past growth. From 1990 to 2010, the global Muslim population increased at an average annual rate of 2.2 per cent. In the next 20 years, the projected rate has dropped to 1.5 per cent.

“If there’s a message in this, it’s that the Muslim population is growing but slowing,” Mr. Cooperman said.

Population projections for other world religions will be released later this year.

[Phenix]

Not cool

[kvg]

:whocares: The muslims I know moved here and became Canadian. They drink, smoke, skip most traditions, and buy Christmas presents for me and their family.:thumbsup:

[Z_Fan]

Meh, we'll be speaking Spanish long before we're all converting to Muslim.

[kvg]

Originally posted by Z_Fan
Meh, we'll be speaking Spanish long before we're all converting to Muslim.

LOL. My kids are in a Spanish-English school.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by kvg


LOL. My kids are in a Spanish-English school.

My kids are still competing for fastest swimmer.

[kvg]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR


My kids are still competing for fastest swimmer.

Nice :rofl:

[masoncgy]

I just find it funny that so many of my childless caucasian friends can't wrap their heads around why 'immigrant' populations are rising and 'white Canadians' in the decline.

Hmmm... maybe have a couple of kids. That's what they're doing, only replace a couple with a handful.

I read somewhere that in France, the caucasian birth rate is like 1.2... and the Muslim birth rate is something like 8.1. Yeah, is it any wonder why they are taking over? lol...

[derpderp]

Originally posted by masoncgy
I just find it funny that so many of my childless caucasian friends can't wrap their heads around why 'immigrant' populations are rising and 'white Canadians' in the decline.

Hmmm... maybe have a couple of kids. That's what they're doing, only replace a couple with a handful.

I read somewhere that in France, the caucasian birth rate is like 1.2... and the Muslim birth rate is something like 8.1. Yeah, is it any wonder why they are taking over? lol...

Yep because six billion people isn't already enough....

But you're completely correct, it isn't even just the Muslim birthrates, but that western nations are breading bellow replacement rate which is why mass immigration is occurring, to offset our lack of making babies.

I have no problem with non-caucasians though (would I really post on beyond if I did?), my only worry which I know is controversial is that immigrating to many people to fast can cause massive segregation problems that exists within the immigrant population itself.

[ZenOps]

Nah, the Spanglishers won't invade Canada.

California does not border BC, contrary to what our head of military thinks (oh for the love of holy jeebus, I hope he was joking)

Chenglese is pretty strong in BC. Frenglish as you head east of Manitoba.

[cjay^]

I don't care at all about race, but religion is idiotic.

Science > Religion

Religion is for those seeking an easy, "cop-out" answer to the origin of the human being and the universe we inhabit.

[Weapon_R]

Hide your kids, hide your wives, hide your husbands cuz they Muslims be rapin' e'rybody soon

[Canmorite]

I don't like religion period, but I know a lot of Muslims from school who are very lax with their religion. They are Muslim the same way Christian men/women sleep around before marriage, have multiple partners, drink, smoke, do drugs, etc :rofl:

Anything claiming to 'take-over' is scary to me.

[CUG]

Originally posted by Z_Fan
Meh, we'll be speaking Spanish long before we're all converting to Muslim. Not likely. It's too cold for them up here. Better start having kids, whitey. Odd report, I'm not sure if they're suggesting an influx of brown people, or just an influx of muslims. Racists.

[tbomb]

I don't care about immigration, but religion is retarded. gtfo

[ddduke]

Originally posted by cjay^
I don't care at all about race, but religion is idiotic.

Science > Religion

Religion is for those seeking an easy, "cop-out" answer to the origin of the human being and the universe we inhabit.

WTF do you care if people believe in religeon?

I think you're ignorant and you probably don't know a thing about most religeons.

Evolution and science can still make sense in religeon. Not everything that is written is to be taken literally. Ie: the 6 days God took to create earth were not 6 24hour days, they were likely millions of years.

Not everyone seeks religeon to get an answer for where they come from. Many people (me included) follow to try and be better people, one thing religeon is good at is teaching you to be a better person for your self and the people around you.


Originally posted by tbomb
I don't care about immigration, but religion is retarded. gtfo

You make a good point and you explain it so well. You're probably one of the smarter people on beyond.

[tbomb]

^ Why cant you be a better person without allowing yourself to be sucked into a mindless cult that revolves around a story book written 2000 years ago?

[gstone]

What I am actually surprised about is that we only have a 2.8% population of muslims in Canada! I genuinely thought that we had at the very least 15%.

[ddduke]

First off, you're talking about the Catholic religeon. There's hundreds of different religeons that don't 'revolve' around the bible which was written 2000 years ago. Do you know anything about buddhism? Do you just assume that's a mindless cult too? What about Hinduism? tell me what you know about that.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Have you ever studied religeon?

Basically it's a system of beliefs to live by, or atleast try to live by. I don't see that as being sucked into a mindless cult. Actually, it's quite the opposite, when I was younger I thought lots of the Catholic religeon was bullshit, so I questioned it and had it all explained to me. Something like that doesn't happen in cults because you're brainwashed and stuck there, while in religeon (atleast the ones I know a bit about) you're welcome to make your own decisions and free to come and go.

[Toma]

Its already a crazy mixed country... When I was in elementary, in a classroom, there were 20 white kids, maybe 1 chinese kid, and maybe 1 brown kid.

In High school, it was similar, maybe 2 chinese kids.

The other day, I drove by a high school, and it was an even mix of the whites browns and beiges. Black was still under represented. :dunno:

It's a shrinking world, and white people don't fuck. Whatya gonna do? :nut:

[FraserB]

Who care what you worship or don't; its none of my damn business and so long as you don't try to preach or convert me, I don't give a fuck.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by FraserB
Who care what you worship or don't; its none of my damn business and so long as you don't try to preach or convert me, I don't give a fuck.

Well said.

[kvg]

I worry about ignorance of people way more than their religion.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by ddduke


WTF do you care if people believe in religeon?

I think you're ignorant and you probably don't know a thing about most religeons.

Evolution and science can still make sense in religeon. Not everything that is written is to be taken literally. Ie: the 6 days God took to create earth were not 6 24hour days, they were likely millions of years.

Not everyone seeks religeon to get an answer for where they come from. Many people (me included) follow to try and be better people, one thing religeon is good at is teaching you to be a better person for your self and the people around you.



You make a good point and you explain it so well. You're probably one of the smarter people on beyond.



Originally posted by ddduke
First off, you're talking about the Catholic religeon. There's hundreds of different religeons that don't 'revolve' around the bible which was written 2000 years ago. Do you know anything about buddhism? Do you just assume that's a mindless cult too? What about Hinduism? tell me what you know about that.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Have you ever studied religeon?

Basically it's a system of beliefs to live by, or atleast try to live by. I don't see that as being sucked into a mindless cult. Actually, it's quite the opposite, when I was younger I thought lots of the Catholic religeon was bullshit, so I questioned it and had it all explained to me. Something like that doesn't happen in cults because you're brainwashed and stuck there, while in religeon (atleast the ones I know a bit about) you're welcome to make your own decisions and free to come and go.
Holy crap, if you're going to be all holier than thou to everyone with an opinion different than one you hold yourself, at least learn how to spell what you're ranting about.

[whiskas]

Originally posted by kvg
I worry about ignorance of people way more than their religion.

Unfortunately the former breeds the latter.

[ekguy]

The biggest issue I have with this is the population crisis they will create...China had the right idea...One child policy...Although they went about it the wrong way hehe.

I think our planet is going to react horribly to the wildly growing population...

[Kavy]

Originally posted by ddduke


WTF do you care if people believe in religeon?

I think you're ignorant and you probably don't know a thing about most religeons.

Evolution and science can still make sense in religeon. Not everything that is written is to be taken literally. Ie: the 6 days God took to create earth were not 6 24hour days, they were likely millions of years.

Not everyone seeks religeon to get an answer for where they come from. Many people (me included) follow to try and be better people, one thing religeon is good at is teaching you to be a better person for your self and the people around you.


Religion.

Just saying

[kvg]

Originally posted by whiskas


Unfortunately the former breeds the latter.

I would be inclined to agree, but I know some intelligent, non-condescending believers and ignorant non-believers as well.

[Godfuader]

First Zombie Apocalypse...now Islamapocalypse!! I need to have a shotgun in one hand, and bacon bits in the other!!:guns:

[kvg]

Off Topic, but one of the funniest thing I have seen. A Muslim guy trying to describe to other Muslims what bacon tastes like. He made it sound as good as humanly possible, but you can't possibly describe bacon in words.

[cjay^]

Originally posted by ddduke


WTF do you care if people believe in religeon?

I think you're ignorant and you probably don't know a thing about most religeons.

Evolution and science can still make sense in religeon. Not everything that is written is to be taken literally. Ie: the 6 days God took to create earth were not 6 24hour days, they were likely millions of years.

Not everyone seeks religeon to get an answer for where they come from. Many people (me included) follow to try and be better people, one thing religeon is good at is teaching you to be a better person for your self and the people around you.

I wasn't going to even bother looking at this thread ever again, but I need a break from studying.

I'm not sure what exactly in my post led you to believe that I "care" about whether or not someone is religious, all I did was call it idiotic, resulting in butthurt.

But, I actually do care, because religion has been a massive source of hate in both history and the modern world. To think that millions of people have died in defense of their religion, or persecution for their religion, is fucking stupid, considering that religion (well at least Christianity) has no factual scientific evidence supporting any of it's claims.

One thing that ticks me off about Christians in general is how they always pick and choose what is meant to be taken literally, and what isn't. Metaphorically, they "rip out" pages they disagree with, or what they see as too far fetched. Christians would obviously support something such as "thou shalt not steal", but what about the whole god hating homosexuals part? just ignore it? what about how women are clearly lesser to men in the bible? just ignore that too?

Personally, I don't need some bullshit book to tell me that I shouldn't steal from someone else, shouldn't kill someone else, or commit adultery and so on. Perhaps in times long ago, where one could get away with theft or murder much easier than today, religion would serve a purpose in trying to deter people from committing one of those acts. In modern times, the long dick of the law is enough to prevent me from shoplifting.

I could go on about this shit forever if I wanted to, but in the end I don't care. Don't get me wrong, I don't "hate" people who believe in religion, I just very strongly disagree with it being needed in modern society. If religion somehow vanished overnight, there would be one less excuse out there for someone to hate someone else.

Oh, and don't challenge someones intelligence when you can't even spell the idea you are defending.

Later

[ddduke]

Originally posted by cjay^


I wasn't going to even bother looking at this thread ever again, but I need a break from studying.

I'm not sure what exactly in my post led you to believe that I "care" about whether or not someone is religious, all I did was call it idiotic, resulting in butthurt.

But, I actually do care, because religion has been a massive source of hate in both history and the modern world. To think that millions of people have died in defense of their religion, or persecution for their religion, is fucking stupid, considering that religion (well at least Christianity) has no factual scientific evidence supporting any of it's claims.

One thing that ticks me off about Christians in general is how they always pick and choose what is meant to be taken literally, and what isn't. Metaphorically, they "rip out" pages they disagree with, or what they see as too far fetched. Christians would obviously support something such as "thou shalt not steal", but what about the whole god hating homosexuals part? just ignore it? what about how women are clearly lesser to men in the bible? just ignore that too?

Personally, I don't need some bullshit book to tell me that I shouldn't steal from someone else, shouldn't kill someone else, or commit adultery and so on. Perhaps in times long ago, where one could get away with theft or murder much easier than today, religion would serve a purpose in trying to deter people from committing one of those acts. In modern times, the long dick of the law is enough to prevent me from shoplifting.

I could go on about this shit forever if I wanted to, but in the end I don't care. Don't get me wrong, I don't "hate" people who believe in religion, I just very strongly disagree with it being needed in modern society. If religion somehow vanished overnight, there would be one less excuse out there for someone to hate someone else.

Oh, and don't challenge someones intelligence when you can't even spell the idea you are defending.

Later

You can have your opinion, I could care less if you're RELIGIOUS or not. It's when you go around shit talking other people's beliefs. RELIGION is a touchy subject.

Melinda, I'm sorry that I made a spelling mistake, I guess it's a pretty big deal.

[Ihatetowait]

Originally posted by kvg
Off Topic, but one of the funniest thing I have seen. A Muslim guy trying to describe to other Muslims what bacon tastes like. He made it sound as good as humanly possible, but you can't possibly describe bacon in words.

I tried to describe it once and it's impossible. Damn it's good to be able to eat bacon.

If you think about it.

More muslims reproduce
Less white people reproduce
Same amount of bacon
=
More bacon per whitey.

YEAAHHHHHHHH!

[cjay^]

Originally posted by ddduke


You can have your opinion, I could care less if you're RELIGIOUS or not. It's when you go around shit talking other people's beliefs. RELIGION is a touchy subject.

Melinda, I'm sorry that I made a spelling mistake, I guess it's a pretty big deal.

I don't give a fuck dude, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms tells me that I can say whatever the hell I want in public, and that document also says you can worship whomever you choose, so I don't see why you should care at all about my personal opinion.

If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to read it.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by ddduke

Melinda, I'm sorry that I made a spelling mistake, I guess it's a pretty big deal.
Not a big deal at all, it just makes you look equally as uneducated as you assume the people you are ranting against are.

[Little Dragon]

Originally posted by Godfuader
First Zombie Apocalypse...now Islamapocalypse!! I need to have a shotgun in one hand, and bacon bits in the other!!:guns:

LOL, bacon bits.

Anyways, most of the Muslim guys/girls I know are CHILL. Sure they don't eat bacon/pork but it's not really any different than say a vegetarian person.
(They just think it's gross)

Except for a select few that are raised by their extremely religious parents, for the most part they are just like everybody else.

[BananaFob]

I don't want anyone to take this post the wrong way. Definitely trying my best to avoid being preachy. I know it's cool and all to be anti-religion on Beyond but I've been itching for the chance to fire a rebuttal. I've been getting a little tired of seeing just about every religious thread have some atheists proseletyzing their beliefs. If anything, I find this equally annoying as the Jehovah's Witnesses that come knocking on my door. Sure, feel free to explain your beliefs, but don't try to preach to me that your beliefs are better than mine ;)



Originally posted by cjay^


I wasn't going to even bother looking at this thread ever again, but I need a break from studying.

I'm not sure what exactly in my post led you to believe that I "care" about whether or not someone is religious, all I did was call it idiotic, resulting in butthurt.

But, I actually do care, because religion has been a massive source of hate in both history and the modern world. To think that millions of people have died in defense of their religion, or persecution for their religion, is fucking stupid, considering that religion (well at least Christianity) has no factual scientific evidence supporting any of it's claims.

Arguably, more people have died because of their ideological beliefs. The Holocaust had nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with ethnicity. Stalin's purges? 0 to do with religion, and that's just relatively recent history.



One thing that ticks me off about Christians in general is how they always pick and choose what is meant to be taken literally, and what isn't. Metaphorically, they "rip out" pages they disagree with, or what they see as too far fetched. Christians would obviously support something such as "thou shalt not steal", but what about the whole god hating homosexuals part? just ignore it? what about how women are clearly lesser to men in the bible? just ignore that too?

Then one would argue that they aren't really Christians. As a fairly devout Catholic, I also find it extremely frustrating when other "Catholics" pick and choose what to believe. You wouldn't really call yourself a Capitalist if you believed in de-centralized government and a closed economy would you?

For the God hating on homosexuals part, this is simply not true about the Catholic faith and is a common misconception. The "homosexual act", ie. having gay sex is what the church does not agree with. Being gay or having homosexual tendencies is NOT a sin. In fact, you'd be surprised to learn that many priests are in fact homosexual, but made a faith-based choice to live a life of celibacy.

Women clearly lesser to men in the Bible? Sure maybe in the Old Testatement. If anything, Jesus was a bit of a reformer for women's rights and believe it or not, historically Christianity plays an important part for both women's suffrage and women's rights in general.


Personally, I don't need some bullshit book to tell me that I shouldn't steal from someone else, shouldn't kill someone else, or commit adultery and so on. Perhaps in times long ago, where one could get away with theft or murder much easier than today, religion would serve a purpose in trying to deter people from committing one of those acts. In modern times, the long dick of the law is enough to prevent me from shoplifting.

The problem with the current generation (especially immigrants) is that people now equate legality with morality. Just because something is legal, should you do it? For example, the 2008 recession was in part caused by very wealthy decision makers that knew what they were doing was ethically and morally wrong and likely they will never face the consequences as they acted entirely in the law while screwing over both the taxpayers, their own employees and the government. Religious laws were often seperate from civil laws even back in the old days by the way.



I could go on about this shit forever if I wanted to, but in the end I don't care. Don't get me wrong, I don't "hate" people who believe in religion, I just very strongly disagree with it being needed in modern society. If religion somehow vanished overnight, there would be one less excuse out there for someone to hate someone else.

I may be inclined to agree with you that it's not needed in modern society. For myself, my religion is a personal choice that I have made for myself. Part of my religion invloves me proselytizing as well, but I do my part in doing so only when I am asked by others to explain my faith. At no other time do I try to be preachy or convince others of my viewpoint... well other than right now I guess haha.

[R!zz0]

:thumbsup:

[R!zz0]

Originally posted by Toma
and white people don't fuck. Whatya gonna do? :nut:

Tell the "White People" to stop aborting

[desi112]

So I took a taxi home from a work party last night, and my taxi driver happened to be a Muslim fellow from Pakistan, his age I would guess to be 60. Look like an Afghani with his choice of beard style and skull cap.

But onto the story: I hit up his cab, and we started random converesation which leads to my religion and language. I from a Sikh familly and English/Punjabi speaker, and he's like wow, i'm Punjabi also. No suprise there, since most of Pakistan is the province of Punjab. Then onto religion, and attempts at conversion. He'd ask me a question about my beliefs and laugh it off and tell me what Islam says and there is no outside chance of anything else being true. I said fine, but do not laugh at someone elses religion, we're in Canada you moved here for a reason. A fourty-five minute annoying drive home, and at the end of the trip i got a 56 dollar bill and a copy of the Quran.


How this ties in with this thread: Not only are born muslims growing in number, but there is a tonne of conversion going around.

[ZenOps]

Bacon bits, tasty.

[desi112]

Originally posted by BananaFob
I don't want anyone to take this post the wrong way. Definitely trying my best to avoid being preachy. I know it's cool and all to be anti-religion on Beyond but I've been itching for the chance to fire a rebuttal. I've been getting a little tired of seeing just about every religious thread have some atheists proseletyzing their beliefs. If anything, I find this equally annoying as the Jehovah's Witnesses that come knocking on my door. Sure, feel free to explain your beliefs, but don't try to preach to me that your beliefs are better than mine ;)




1000 ceprent agree

[CapnCrunch]

Sweet, more cab drivers.

[syeve]

Originally posted by desi112


1000 ceprent agree

:D

Do you find it odd that religion takes their holy books teachings literally until science or society considers is so preposterous that it is simply deemed figurative? Seriously, I'm just curious.

[desi112]

Originally posted by syeve


:D

Do you find it odd that religion takes their holy books teachings literally until science or society considers is so preposterous that it is simply deemed figurative? Seriously, I'm just curious.

I can't speak for another religion, but for the one I try to follow, and honestly there is no hocus pocus, there are no angels and demons. Just god and the laws of physics.

[Feruk]

Who really cares? I see no problem with moderate Muslims just as I see no issue with moderate Christians. Got crazies on both sides.


Originally posted by desi112

I can't speak for another religion, but for the one I try to follow, and honestly there is no hocus pocus, there are no angels and demons. Just god and the laws of physics.

Haven't heard of one of those. Your last comment eliminated every type of Christian religion and scientology. Not sure of Muslims or Jews used to believe Earth was the center of the universe.

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by syeve


:D

Do you find it odd that religion takes their holy books teachings literally until science or society considers is so preposterous that it is simply deemed figurative? Seriously, I'm just curious.

I don't find this odd at all. Religions, although claiming to be divinely inspired, are still man-made institutions and as such, evolve much the same way as any other man-made institution like science. Admittedly, some are evolving slower than others.

In my opinion, this evolution of religion is trending towards a disbanding of formal religion, at least in the case of Roman Catholicism, to more of a personal belief system.

[syeve]

Originally posted by BananaFob


In my opinion, this evolution of religion is trending towards a disbanding of formal religion, at least in the case of Roman Catholicism, to more of a personal belief system.

I hope you are right. :thumbsup:

[zain123]

tripples.. screw that
hopefully it quadruples
lol honestly why does population matter
unless ur insecure ?

[syeve]

Originally posted by zain123
tripples.. screw that
hopefully it quadruples
lol honestly why does population matter
unless ur insecure ?

Yah, I don't know why everyone is so excited about this. I wonder what size hijab my GF is?

http://americanvision.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/behead-those-who-insult-islam.jpg

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by zain123
tripples.. screw that
hopefully it quadruples


lol honestly why does population matter
unless ur insecure ?

Hopefully? Why does it matter to you?

I don't like the prospects of one religion 'taking' over, let alone any religion growing exponentially. Religion breeds intolerance and ignorance, yet others (Atheists?) are supposed to be tolerant of it's expansion?

[zain123]

so u dont like the prospects? meaning ur insecure?
why does it matter to me? lol because i made this thread..
i am laughing at this if anything

numbers mean nothing
it is what u believe in the heart, how strong that is, which matters the most
if u read up on islamic history, numbers have not been the "concern" or the main emphasis in the early times

[zain123]

n in case u didnt catch.. quadruples was sarcasm..
all i am trying to say is i personally do not know a single muslim who is concerned about population number or trying to purposely raise that number lol

even in Friday sermons, where u have most of the muslims gather, even those who dont pray 5 times a day manage to get there. Even at those scenarios u dont have any emphasis on this. On Eid prayers (happen twice a year) and even thsoe who dont come to Friday sermons, come to these.. and even at a gathering of that caliber, this is not something that is addressed..
just trying to show the other side of the story if anything :)

[1barA4]

Originally posted by syeve


Yah, I don't know why everyone is so excited about this. I wonder what size hijab my GF is?

http://americanvision.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/behead-those-who-insult-islam.jpg

It's the religion of peace...though clearly something was lost in translation.

Maybe it's a pax romana thing where there's peace because of the threat of violence :dunno:

[1barA4]

Originally posted by zain123

if u read up on islamic history, numbers have not been the "concern" or the main emphasis in the early times

If you read between the lines, all religions have an emphasis on numbers, hence the rules about not marrying livestock, same-sex coupling, etc. under the guise of morality, when its really about keeping up the numbers of your community.

[zain123]

but that is not "religion" is it?
that is your community..
community could include various religions
as it does right.. now? in canada..?

[Feruk]

Originally posted by 1barA4

It's the religion of peace...though clearly something was lost in translation.


I'm not a fan of this statement. I know you meant it jokingly, and I'm not giving you a hard time, but rather anyone who actually believes this statement. There is NO such thing as a religion of peace. Religions create segregation. "Oh you're not _____, you're not one of us." Religions teach us to expand and convert the infidels (both Muslim and Christian). Religion and peace have NOTHING to do with each other.

[zain123]

Islam doesnt tell muslims to convert others
We are only told to deliver the message to everyone in the best of form, simple and that is it!
Guidance doesn't come from anyone other than Allah.. that is the core belief

what happens around the world.. lets not go there :)

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by 1barA4


If you read between the lines, all religions have an emphasis on numbers, hence the rules about not marrying livestock, same-sex coupling, etc. under the guise of morality, when its really about keeping up the numbers of your community.

Why are you arguing with someone who's too lazy to type out "you" or hit the shift key?

[zain123]

^yes, it is important that we always use proper grammar, punctuation and capitalize the first letter of the sentence. (at leaaast on 'religious' threads lol)

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


Why are you arguing with someone who's too lazy to type out "you" or hit the shift key?

your stupidity amazes me

[desi112]

athiests are just as ingorant as people who believe in god, please don't kid your selves.

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by zain123

Islam doesnt tell muslims to convert others
We are only told to deliver the message to everyone in the best of form, simple and that is it!
Guidance doesn't come from anyone other than Allah.. that is the core belief

what happens around the world.. lets not go there :)


Zain, we are both Muslims. And we have had many a friendly debate about many an Islamic thing. Either from the Sunni/Shia viewpoints...and sometimes we make fun of our faiths in a roundabout way. But as for converting, man if we bring one of the infidels over; we are promised a spot next to Muhammad (pbuh). Come on, you know with all the bacon I have ate, weed I have smoked, Alcohol I have consumed I need me a conversion. It will be as big as a conversion in the last 10 seconds of a tied Superbowl game haha...

But, I will close with a question to you...

What happened to yo beard??

[zain123]

lol

[zain123]

off topic but arif next course.. msg me on fb
its definitely the one !

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by zain123
off topic but arif next course.. msg me on fb
its definitely the one !


I'll message you, but why you gotta make it look like I am a Mujahideen...what, talking about courses and it being "the one" haha...

[CUG]

Originally posted by zain123
tripples.. screw that
hopefully it quadruples
lol honestly why does population matter
unless ur insecure ? Not if they're like you and your family. You're clearly looking to expand, and well, expanding religious extremists should probably die before their stupidity catches on. What do we have to do to make you not acting that way a priority from now on?

Edit: Why it matters: Because a healthy society doesn't have a prevalence of overbearing religious doctrines, that's why. There's no need for people to made uncomfortable just so you can have high numbers.

Edit: 2, The same can be said for the excluding small-town racist fundamentalist Christians who act arrogant or turn their noses up at people who don't cling to their bible as hard as they do. They out themselves fairly quickly, usually as soon as they open their mouth, and are immediately found intolerable. There's less of a "guessing game" with them than there is with "moderates" from other religions.

[zain123]

mr./miss CUG why dont u paint a "perfect" world picture for me

[cjay^]

Originally posted by BananaFob
I don't want anyone to take this post the wrong way. Definitely trying my best to avoid being preachy. I know it's cool and all to be anti-religion on Beyond but I've been itching for the chance to fire a rebuttal. I've been getting a little tired of seeing just about every religious thread have some atheists proseletyzing their beliefs. If anything, I find this equally annoying as the Jehovah's Witnesses that come knocking on my door. Sure, feel free to explain your beliefs, but don't try to preach to me that your beliefs are better than mine ;)

I don't really read that many threads so I was unaware it was "cool" to be Atheist, in fact I was under the impression it was the opposite. Good to know.

I'm curious why you find me posting a message on a public forum as annoying as someone ringing your doorbell at 8:30 on a Saturday trying to convert you. As I said to someone else, nobody is forcing you to even acknowledge my opinions, you made that choice for yourself.

As for your holocaust comment, if I was Jewish I would probably be quite offended that you would say the Holocaust had nothing to do with Religion. "Religious Beliefs Meant Annihilation" http://www.eastrenfrewshire.gov.uk/holocaust/holocaust_remembrance_2004_-_other_victims/holocaust_remembrance_2004_-_religion_and_the_holocaust.htm

Sure more people have probably died in all of the Communism vs Capitalism conflicts, but that doesn't negate the fact that millions have died because of religion.

"Religious laws were often seperate from civil laws even back in the old days by the way."

I'm not really sure what you mean by that. My point was that before finger print analysis, before blood tests, before DNA tests, and etc, I'm guessing it would have been way easier to murder someone and get away with it then today. So my point was that religion would deter people from committing such acts, because an omnipotent god would know you killed someone, even when the law did not.

"athiests are just as ingorant as people who believe in god, please don't kid your selves."

Interesting, I guess I missed the memo that says desi was the perfect judge of character in all people. As I said in another thread: "Broad generalizations don't often make an individual appear intelligent"

[zain123]

^^ i didnt even make that comment lol

[cjay^]

Originally posted by zain123
^^ i didnt even make that comment lol

Yeah it was that desi guy, my bad dude lol

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by cjay^


I'm curious why you find me posting a message on a public forum as annoying as someone ringing your doorbell at 8:30 on a Saturday trying to convert you. As I said to someone else, nobody is forcing you to even acknowledge my opinions, you made that choice for yourself.


Sorry Cjay, I wasn't meaning to direct this at you at all, just referencing other threads based on religion.


As for your holocaust comment, if I was Jewish I would probably be quite offended that you would say the Holocaust had nothing to do with Religion. "Religious Beliefs Meant Annihilation" http://www.eastrenfrewshire.gov.uk/holocaust/holocaust_remembrance_2004_-_other_victims/holocaust_remembrance_2004_-_religion_and_the_holocaust.htm



I still disagree with you as even your link highlights the fact that Catholics and other Christians were persecuted as well. I don't see why any Jewish person would be offended. The Gestapo would often round up people based on nose measurements based on common stereotypes of Jewish people so again, this was ethnicity based, not religious. In addition, many ethnic Poles, Romanians, Serbs etc were all exterminated regardless of religious views.


Sure more people have probably died in all of the Communism vs Capitalism conflicts, but that doesn't negate the fact that millions have died because of religion.

I didn't disagree with you here, but merely pointing out that in recent history, its weighted heavily due to ideological differences rather than religious. Even the "war on terrorism" is more about ideology rather than religion. My point is, even without religion, people will still find a reason to kill each other. It's a matter of pride, power and control.


"Religious laws were often seperate from civil laws even back in the old days by the way."

I'm not really sure what you mean by that. My point was that before finger print analysis, before blood tests, before DNA tests, and etc, I'm guessing it would have been way easier to murder someone and get away with it then today. So my point was that religion would deter people from committing such acts, because an omnipotent god would know you killed someone, even when the law did not.

Ah, ok. Gotcha.

[zain123]

was kind of shocked at first.. went back and checked twice
did a search.. nope wasnt me lol

[Toma]

I'm atheist, becasue that is the only TRUE intelligent, logical option.

However, if you wanna believe in the tooth fairy, Rumpelstiltskin, Santa Clause, and other fairy tales.... I wont be offended. I may think you are a fucking idiot, but not everyone in the world (obviously) has the gift of a logical brain.

Now, this Muslim expansion stuff.... they aren't expanding. They are fucking. I don't know any white guys converting to islam (but I do know white guys converting to Judaism...hmmm)... anyway.

Whites are self centered, selfish, career, me me me. Browns are family orientated, so simple as simple can be, they have more kids. To whites, more than 1 or 2 kids is "in the way" (1.6 in Canada actually). A that rate, we will become extinct.

To browns, with their superior family values, 3 is "just getting started".

I would consider simply banning all religion. Muslim, Jew, Christian, whatever. But the backlash would be monumental. No one has the right, no matter how desirable, to protect the stupid from themselves.

Smart people believe some whacky shit too, so I dunno. I know a brillaint PHD and he and his friends get together and attempt "levetation" and crap.

Maybe a subject just like language arts dedicated to logic and reasoning from grade 1 to 12. Teach social pyschology, behavioural economics, group psychology, critical thinking, techniques of influence, propaganda and persuasion.

I think teaching someone to think critically and making it instinctual is the ONLY way to destroy the fantasy that is religion.

BUT, since the other agenda is to breed CONSUMERS, that would be at odds with capitalism, and the corporatists that run the world.

[cjay^]

Hey BananaFob, despite our disagreement, I'm glad you approach this debate with well written, well organized responses, and not personal attacks. I understand my initial statement may be offensive to you because of your beliefs, but I hope you don't take it as a personal attack on you. It's refreshing to see someone who defends their beliefs with this approach, rather than simply just calling me intolerant or ignorant, while ignoring making counter-points to my arguments.

As for the Holocaust thing, YES, other groups were targeted, but, at the risk of making a statement without first looking at official numbers, I'm going to say that FAR more Jews were murdered than other group, ethnic or religious.

Lets see what are the biggest causes of hate between people, Race, Ideology, Religion, and sexual orientation, if you disagree please let me know what you think. How nice would it be just to remove one of those factors entirely?

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by cjay^
Hey BananaFob, despite our disagreement, I'm glad you approach this debate with well written, well organized responses, and not personal attacks. I understand my initial statement may be offensive to you because of your beliefs, but I hope you don't take it as a personal attack on you. It's refreshing to see someone who defends their beliefs with this approach, rather than simply just calling me intolerant or ignorant, while ignoring making counter-points to my arguments.

As for the Holocaust thing, YES, other groups were targeted, but, at the risk of making a statement without first looking at official numbers, I'm going to say that FAR more Jews were murdered than other group, ethnic or religious.

Lets see what are the biggest causes of hate between people, Race, Ideology, Religion, and sexual orientation, if you disagree please let me know what you think. How nice would it be just to remove one of those factors entirely?

No offense taken.

Yes, far more Jews were exterminated, keep in mind there is an important distinction between the Jewish faith and the Jewish people as an ethnicity; although closely aligned, one does not necessarily equal the other. Lol, we're really sidetracking from the initial discussion here.

[1barA4]

Originally posted by cjay^

As for the Holocaust thing, YES, other groups were targeted, but, at the risk of making a statement without first looking at official numbers, I'm going to say that FAR more Jews were murdered than other group, ethnic or religious.


At least based on a seemingly "source"-laden table on wikipedia (lol), Jews numbered 5.9million, all others killed totaled to about 4.6million conservatively, 6.8 million if the max #'s are used. If you were to say single group, yes, your statement is 100% true...compared to the total death toll of the Holocaust...depends?


Originally posted by cjay^

Lets see what are the biggest causes of hate between people, Race, Ideology, Religion, and sexual orientation, if you disagree please let me know what you think. How nice would it be just to remove one of those factors entirely?

+1

Ideally, all of those would be wiped out...except maybe race but solely for comedic purposes, not to divide people.

[CUG]

Originally posted by zain123
mr./miss CUG why dont u paint a "perfect" world picture for me You asked for it, don't bitch when the spanking starts to sting: Less religious expansion. Less strategic exploitation of a government's policies on tolerance. Less frivolous usage of a country's human rights commissions to quiet people who scrutinize your belief system. Less forced tolerance; logic prevailing over tolerance. A situation where a muslim, a christian, a buddhist and any other religion were equally and fairly scrutinized. A world where it would be fucking impossible for a group of dumb religious wingnuts to hold entire countries hostage.

It shouldn't be wrong for me to shit on your religious beliefs, but okay to shit on a christians beliefs.

Are you a liberal voter, Zain?

Your vote would be a conservative one if you were staying true to your beliefs and looking to proliferate your ideas and moral values. It's the closest thing you'd find in Canada, but I can clearly understand voting on a single issue with the liberal party.




Originally posted by desi112

I can't speak for another religion, but for the one I try to follow, and honestly there is no hocus pocus, there are no angels and demons. Just god and the laws of physics.

You're right, there's just free virgins, burkas, head dress', somehow women shouldn't vote, and there's some person no one is allowed to draw pictures of.

[1barA4]

Originally posted by CUG

You're right, there's just free virgins, burkas, head dress', somehow women shouldn't vote, and there's some person no one is allowed to draw pictures of.

To be fair, hijabs, burkas, etc. are a cultural not a religious choice (though use of them is proclaimed to be motivated by religion).

[CUG]

Originally posted by 1barA4
(though use of them is proclaimed to be motivated by religion). Right, my bad. I don't see this as anything more than a couple of hockey teams trying to best each other at every turn. I haven't talk to a muslim who was looking to "take over" like Zain said, nor have I recently talked to a christian who was cussing out non-believers. You'll have to excuse me if I can't word things nicely when what I describe rears its head like it does on beyond from time to time. Actually I've met Sayed Sohawardy, so I take the other part back.

[max_boost]

As long as they all chill and grow up like the rest of us Canadians, it's all good.

By that I mean, like winter sports, watch hockey, drink beer, educated etc.

None of this beating up on your wife, marrying 9 year old kids, stoning people to death, burning my house down when I make a comment about the Prophet etc.

:D

[ZeeZee]

Most of us second/third generation Muslims fit right in...
We might believe in something different than you do, but there are a very minute number of us that will make any impact on your life at all. I don't know what all the fear mongering is about.

In addition, it's really only the immigrants that have more kids. Their children usually only want a couple.

[CUG]

I can keep going:

We're told that the news portrays muslims as savage extremists, and that it isn't fair to believe what the news tells you, that if you do, you're racist. Fair enough, I absolutely afford that courtesy at all times.

In the same conversation, the same person will excitedly proclaim that christians are all pedophiles, well because it was on the news.

I guess I'm advocating for less fucking stupidity overall, Zain.

[zain123]

@ Toma - I would like to bring to your attention that in the last couple of years when I have been around a lot converts and heard their story or what not.. they have been Caucasian for majority of it.. personally met I think 2-3 east indian ones ever. What is really cool to see an enormous amount of asians converting recently.. its quite amazing!

@ CUG.. that is quite interesting
I go back to the same thing I brought up prolie months or a year or so ago about muslims.. which is that we ourselves hurt our image more than anything else. If everyone stood still in the world for a day, there will be muslims killing other muslims and doing everything else that is already happening.. u name it and yes it will be there.

Hence I always suggest to not judge religion by the people (especially in today's times), but what the teaching is actually being taught in the books and by the practices of the early times.

[CUG]

Originally posted by zain123

@ CUG.. that is quite interesting
I go back to the same thing I brought up prolie months or a year or so ago about muslims.. which is that we ourselves hurt our image more than anything else. If everyone stood still in the world for a day, there will be muslims killing other muslims and doing everything else that is already happening.. u name it and yes it will be there.

Hence I always suggest to not judge religion by the people (especially in today's times), but what the teaching is actually being taught in the books and by the practices of the early times. I'm actually talking about other stuff, but cool :dunno:

[calgary403]

Originally posted by cjay^

I wasn't going to even bother looking at this thread ever again, but I need a break from studying.

I'm not sure what exactly in my post led you to believe that I "care" about whether or not someone is religious, all I did was call it idiotic, resulting in butthurt.

But, I actually do care, because religion has been a massive source of hate in both history and the modern world. To think that millions of people have died in defense of their religion, or persecution for their religion, is fucking stupid, considering that religion (well at least Christianity) has no factual scientific evidence supporting any of it's claims.

First of all people fighting over religion is stupid. I will agree with you 100% on that. But people have been killing each other over any reason they can since we have been on this earth. Differences in opinion/resources/anger/religion. If religion disappeared tomorrow people would still find reasons to kill each other. Probably over different cultures and customs. Atleast with religion being there it teaches SOME people lessons on how to live a good life.

Also there has been significant scientific evidence supporting SOME of the claims of Catholicism. There have been many cultures who have wrote about Jesus (not just Catholics) and there is alot of evidence supporting the fact that he was a real person. If you would like I could give you some examples.

One thing that ticks me off about Christians in general is how they always pick and choose what is meant to be taken literally, and what isn't. Metaphorically, they "rip out" pages they disagree with, or what they see as too far fetched. Christians would obviously support something such as "thou shalt not steal", but what about the whole god hating homosexuals part? just ignore it? what about how women are clearly lesser to men in the bible? just ignore that too?

First of all there is no rule that Christians have to follow the exact word of the bible. Any person Christian or otherwise who takes the bible as historical fact is an idiot. The reason Christians "pick and choose" which parts of the bible to follow is because the Bible was not written by God himself. It was written by MANY people mostly hundreds of years after the death of Jesus. Then the Vatican picked and chose which scriptures they wanted to be published. The bible was written by man it is not the Exact word of God 100%.

Personally, I don't need some bullshit book to tell me that I shouldn't steal from someone else, shouldn't kill someone else, or commit adultery and so on. Perhaps in times long ago, where one could get away with theft or murder much easier than today, religion would serve a purpose in trying to deter people from committing one of those acts. In modern times, the long dick of the law is enough to prevent me from shoplifting.

I understand where you are coming from. But in case you haven't been reading much of the news lately religion doesn't stop people from committing horrible crimes. Also incase you have never read the Bible or the Quran (sp?) or other Holy books some of them even CONDONE murder under certain circumstances. Also if I am not mistaken in the Quran Muhammad tells his followrs to fight against Tyranny. That is not something I would think the politicians and people in power would use to "control the masses." That would probably be the exact opposite from what they would want.

I could go on about this shit forever if I wanted to, but in the end I don't care. Don't get me wrong, I don't "hate" people who believe in religion, I just very strongly disagree with it being needed in modern society. If religion somehow vanished overnight, there would be one less excuse out there for someone to hate someone else.

I think you DO care. Otherwise you wouldn't have made this long post expressing your anti religious views. Is religion NEEDED? No of course not. You don't NEED anything expect food and water. But the majority of religious people use their religion to help them live a better life. Who are you to want to deny them that? And trust me if religion were gone tomorrow people would still be finding reasons to hate eachother, EXCEPT the positive impacts of religion would be gone.

Oh, and don't challenge someones intelligence when you can't even spell the idea you are defending.
Later

In the end this is a pretty futile argument as neither one of us would ever be able to prove the other is wrong. So this will be the last time a reply in this thread. I just wanted to get my opinion out there.

[Mar]

Originally posted by calgary403
what about how women are clearly lesser to men in the bible? just ignore that too?
This is the only problem I have with religion, people hearing a single passage somewhere and thinking they can simply guess the context and they must absolutely be right. The actual passage in the Bible read, "A man shall not lay with another man as he would his wife." It's a reference to the fact that women/wives in the Bible were treated like trash and just one step up from a servant. So it's telling you not to treat a fellow man like you would your piece of trash wife. People are just too retarded today, until people learn to read Hebrew, Latin and Aramaic, they should stop reading too much into a text that has been proven to be mistranslated for hundreds of years.


Originally posted by calgary403
what about how women are clearly lesser to men in the bible? just ignore that too?
This proves my point above.

[Mar]

Oh and I think we need to rethink our approach to tourism:

http://www.danmaher.com/images/beyond1.png

[A3GTiVR6SC]

Agnosticism FTW

Whiney white people: Get your fuck on! It's a race!!

[cjay^]

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
— Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion)

[frizzlefry]

Religion is irrelevant. It’s simply an excuse to wage war. Want the wealth or land of the country next to you? Don't have money to start a propaganda machine? Just tell your people that their religion wants your religion dead. Cheap, easy way to mobilize people to your cause.

[veedubin69]

Wow.

A thread full of bigots.


If you think this land belongs to you then prove it.


Why are poeple so afraid of what they don't know about Islam?

[CUG]

Originally posted by veedubin69
Wow.

A thread full of bigots.
If you think this land belongs to you then prove it.
Why are poeple so afraid of what they don't know about Islam? I'm curious how you'd reply to someone who said "I'm not afraid, and I know about Islam, so whats your point?", and then said something like "Well, if it isn't my land, then it especially isn't your land"

Beware of the religious zealot who demands unquestioned support for their beliefs. Beware of he who labels those who question his practices as bigoted, for he is the slow creeping death of your country.

Sorry veedubbin, those who are able to identify that commonly used tactic are many.