AWD vs FWD/RWD with Studs

[Khyron]

Not sure what direction to go next vehicle. I have a 02 Jetta FWD on decent winter rubber, and have had pretty much no issues except a few sketchy spots trying to get going after some other donkey stopped. Also almost got sucked into the ditch in Springbank following the ruts of someone else who'd already gone off.

I had a Subaru Legacy wagon, and I have an AWD Santa Fe both on winter tires and they just go great.

So I was thinking my next car will be AWD but then some other guys were saying some studs would be pretty close and I wouldn't have the awd mpg hit in the summer. So for those who have driven both, how is it? Winters with studs cut the mustard?

[Pollywog]

Originally posted by Khyron
Not sure what direction to go next vehicle. I have a 02 Jetta FWD on decent winter rubber, and have had pretty much no issues except a few sketchy spots trying to get going after some other donkey stopped. Also almost got sucked into the ditch in Springbank following the ruts of someone else who'd already gone off.

I had a Subaru Legacy wagon, and I have an AWD Santa Fe both on winter tires and they just go great.

So I was thinking my next car will be AWD but then some other guys were saying some studs would be pretty close and I wouldn't have the awd mpg hit in the summer. So for those who have driven both, how is it? Winters with studs cut the mustard?

Having driven both, I prefer AWD rather than studded winters on a FWD that end up roaring on dry pavement most of the winter.

[GQBalla]

why not AWD with studded winters!?

[leftwing]

Well if its gonna be an all year round vehicle why not get a 4wd so you can have 2wd 90% of the time (gas milage) then when you do need 4wd you can push the button and engage it. I have 4wd (98 chevy blazer) and i use 4wd rarely. i usually only use my 4wd to get going from a stop, rarely need it while actually driving. I drive both a FWD and a 4wd/rwd regularly in the winter and they both have all season tires and 4wd takes the cake.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by leftwing
Well if its gonna be an all year round vehicle why not get a 4wd so you can have 2wd 90% of the time (gas milage) then when you do need 4wd you can push the button and engage it. I have 4wd (98 chevy blazer) and i use 4wd rarely. i usually only use my 4wd to get going from a stop, rarely need it while actually driving. I drive both a FWD and a 4wd/rwd regularly in the winter and they both have all season tires and 4wd takes the cake.

I would love this... on a car. The Lancer Ralliart does it, but the rest of the car has not the greatest reviews.

[Sorath]

Awd with studded tires ftw hahahaha

[Bizzareo]

I havent driven an AWD vehicle yet. But I would Imagine some of the newer "smart" AWD drive system would make a noticeable difference. IMO I prefer RWD over FWD in the winter (any time of the year actually). Its just way more predictable if you have a slide.

[GT4rally]

AWD doesn't help you stop! Studded winters do!

Studded winters will also hold corners way better than an AWD with "all-seasons."

If you don't want the hum on dry roads, just buy some good non-studded winters.

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by GT4rally
AWD doesn't help you stop! Studded winters do!

Studded winters will also hold corners way better than an AWD with "all-seasons."

If you don't want the hum on dry roads, just buy some good non-studded winters.


Agree 100%

But you should just go for the ultimate: AWD with studs. :bigpimp:

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

AWD with winter tires is fine in Calgary I find.

[dingmah]

I'm running a set of studded Gislaved Nord Frost 5 on my AWD 530xi, and the only downside is the increased road noise when driving 80km/h+. You get use to it, just have to crank up the volume to compensate.

Other than that, tons of grip going up and stopping at the bottom of hills here in the NW.

In the winter time, the sketchiest corner for me is always Sarcee Trail heading south turning right onto John Laurie west. With studded tires, there's no fear that the tail will slide out if you gas it at the wrong time.

From now, I'll only be buying studded winter tires :thumbsup:

[Khyron]

I've never even had a ride in a car with studded tires - how bad is it on dry pavement? I drive Glenmore from end to end, and it's usually clear and pretty quick (it's the rest of the roads that give me fits)

[npham]

Originally posted by Khyron


I would love this... on a car. The Lancer Ralliart does it, but the rest of the car has not the greatest reviews.

Ralliart is 50/50 all the time, and cannot be turned off. Same with the Evo X.

[tirebob]

I have a rear wheel drive older truck that I have studded tires. The traction improvement on ice over non-studded winter tires is amazing! Yes there is a sound difference, but IMHO it isn't anything as bad as some people try to make you think. Really, it isn't much so much a "louder" sound than it is more of a "different" sound, which you get used too quite quickly. People outside your car definitely hear it more, but with the sound deadning built into vehicles these days, unless you are a freak with dog-like hearing, most people won't be bothered. I just turn my radio up an extra notch or two when I am freeway driving and it really isn't anything unbearable. Fair trade off for super ice traction!

[Tik-Tok]

I've always wondered tirebob, how many seasons do studs last when you're driving on dry pavement 90% of the winter? Do they at least last two winters?

[J-hop]

Originally posted by Bizzareo
I havent driven an AWD vehicle yet. But I would Imagine some of the newer "smart" AWD drive system would make a noticeable difference. IMO I prefer RWD over FWD in the winter (any time of the year actually). Its just way more predictable if you have a slide.


^this, I don't know why people claim FWD is better in the winter. I've driven RWD for 4 winters and this winter was my 4th winter driving FWD and I can tell you RWD is drastically better than FWD in the winter.

[Everlast]

Originally posted by J-hop



^this, I don't know why people claim FWD is better in the winter. I've driven RWD for 4 winters and this winter was my 4th winter driving FWD and I can tell you RWD is drastically better than FWD in the winter.

FWD cars are usually pretty front heavy and that helps with traction (while turning) and also during engine braking.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by Everlast


FWD cars are usually pretty front heavy and that helps with traction (while turning) and also during engine braking.

in theory thats just great but in practice I didn't find that helped at all. RWD is way easier to control in a slide than FWD and I found not having your driving wheels in the front allows for way more consistent traction in the front (which is where you need it most!). I found with FWD you are constantly modulating the throttle to retain steering and traction, where as with RWD you can let it slip a bit and still have full control of the vehicle allowing for smoother and more enjoyable driving, you don't have to get off the throttle everytime you get wheel spin. I also found I got stuck a lot more with a FWD car, in all 4 years driving RWD I never got stuck once, even plowing through deep snow. First year driving FWD I had trouble getting out of my parking spot after they plowed or after a thick snow fall.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by J-hop


in theory thats just great but in practice I didn't find that helped at all. RWD is way easier to control in a slide than FWD and I found not having your driving wheels in the front allows for way more consistent traction in the front (which is where you need it most!). I found with FWD you are constantly modulating the throttle to retain steering and traction, where as with RWD you can let it slip a bit and still have full control of the vehicle allowing for smoother and more enjoyable driving, you don't have to get off the throttle everytime you get wheel spin. I also found I got stuck a lot more with a FWD car, in all 4 years driving RWD I never got stuck once, even plowing through deep snow. First year driving FWD I had trouble getting out of my parking spot after they plowed or after a thick snow fall.

Unless you drove 2 of the same car, and that car that is offered in both FWD and RWD, you're comparing apples and oranges.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I have owned and driven FWD, RWD and AWD in the winter, all with the same brand and type of tire but different sizes, these are my thoughts:

FWD: Better than RWD for acceleration on slippery surfaces, not as good as AWD. Worst for cornering under throttle applications, same as RWD and AWD for coasting in corners, worst for car control for braking in corners.

RWD: Worst for acceleration on slippery surfaces, needs most amount of care and throttle control on slippery surfaces in a straight line. Best for cornering under throttle applications, same as FWD and AWD for coasting in corners, better than FWD and the same as AWD for braking in corners.

AWD: Best for straight line acceleration, mostly point and shoot other than the most slippery of surfaces when the car tends to 4 wheels torque steer sideways. Better than FWD and worse than RWD for corners with throttle application, same as FWD and RWD for coasting in corners, better than FWD and the same as RWD for braking in corners.

All cars had similar straight line braking characteristics, with only the AWD car having ABS. In deep snow the non abs cars were better for braking by allowing the wheels to lock and the snow to pile up in front of them to aid in stopping, whereas the ABS in the AWD interfered slightly but still did the job

[J-hop]

I realize that, which is exactly my point. I would take any of our family's RWD vehicles over my FWD vehicle for winter driving any day.

[arian_ma]

AWD w/ regular winter tires here, nothing fancy. Haven't even been close to getting stuck yet. That being said, IMO, winter tires > 4WD/AWD. If you have to choose, go with the winters.

[Khyron]

Winter tires are a given since they're virtually free. I have an AWD Santa on winters and a Jetta on winters.

My dilema is when I replace the Jetta, do I make AWD a deal-breaker and get stuck with lousier MPG and spend more $$ for even worse handling (see 335xi vs 335i). Or do I get another fun bang-for-buck FWD car like a GTI or a Genesys-coupe-ish car and slap winters+studs on them for comparible Calgary winter driving.

Like I said, I've only been close to stuck a few times in the Jetta (never actually been stuck in almost 10 years of driving it). BUt after my Legacy and Santa, I can appreciate the tank-like tracking on unploughed roads.

[arian_ma]

Well if you've already got the Santa Fe, why not get the GTI so that you won't be frowning all summer long? Drive the Santa Fe for the 2 weeks of -40 100cm of snow, and the GTI for literally every other day.

Edit: I just saw that your AWD choices aren't exactly "bummer" cars either. Tough choice man!

[johnboy27]

I vote for front wheel drive with good winters, not studded but good studless winters. I am running Nokian Hakka R's and my car is unstoppable in the snow. I haven't been in a situation that puckered the bunghole yet this winter. I drove to Banff a couple weeks ago in a snow storm and most of the vehicles I passed on the highway were awd or 4x4. When I got to Banff I couldn't even distinguish the roads from the ditches( probably 15+ cms of snow on the roads) and I plowed through it with ease.
AWD would be great but for the additional cost for the payments as well as the fuel cost I personally would not go that route.

[max_boost]

GTI is awesome. Great fuel mileage and unless if it's really deep snow, there are no issues. Car is predictable and handles great. I'm running Hankook Ipike's and opted for no studs because of Calgary's weather.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I've always wondered tirebob, how many seasons do studs last when you're driving on dry pavement 90% of the winter? Do they at least last two winters? The studs are full tread depth, so unless they were not installed properly, they should last as long as the tire lasts. The studs do not wear faster than the tire so it's not like they will wear away before the tread.

I am not saying they will not be a bit better brand new than when they are half warn, but they will always provide you a higher level of ice traction than not...