Enormous Civil Breakdown in Egypt

[CUG]

Hai Guyz,

This is no longer a peaceful protest.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12345656

Regardless of who was in charge, the government needs to transition out. Mubarak was an economic asshole, but I don't see him committing genocide. Give him to September, and have an election. Then hopefully a war mongering anti-semetic group won't come into power, and instead some opposition parties can present themselves, and this can all get done properly.


Up to 2,000 anti-Mubarak demonstrators had spent Tuesday night in Tahrir Square, the main focus of the protests, saying the president's pledge was insufficient and chanting: "We will not leave!"
Continue reading the main story
At the scene
image of John Simpson John Simpson World Affairs Editor, Cairo

Pro-Mubarak groups have been pushing their way to the edges of Tahrir Square all afternoon.

Fights have been breaking out and large numbers of missiles - bricks, stones and bits of ironwork - have been flying through the air on both sides.

During the day, about half the demonstrators in the square slowly filtered out.

There are too few soldiers here to keep any kind of order. The most they can do is prevent the big numbers of Mubarak loyalists from getting into the square, bottling them up into huge groups on the edges.

From time to time in the side streets, big pro-Mubarak groups gather around people who have left the square, shouting at them and punching them.

There have been reports of people being knifed, but the casualties you mostly see are from the bricks and stones which have been raining down indiscriminately.

The net effect of the arrival in force of groups of Mubarak supporters seems to have been to strengthen the resolve of the hard-line demonstrators to stay inside the square. The gradual drift away from the square seems to have stopped.

For now, it is the only place where the demonstrators can feel more or less safe.

On Wednesday, thousands of supporters of President Mubarak arrived in buses and surged into the square, dismantling barricades.

"Let the man (Mubarak) take care of you until his time is up," Mohamed Shafik, 51, told Reuters news agency. "Mubarak wants stability and we want stability as well."

One anti-government protester told the BBC that pro-Mubarak activists had initiated the violence.

"They started throwing stones at us," the man, named as Zaccaria, said. "Then some of us started throwing stones at them and then we chased them out of the square. They returned once again with the horses and the whips and the thugs."


CUG

[desi112]

Those are known to be paid mobs... the pro mubarak ones, and comprised mainly of poorer muslims. Where-as the protesters and christian/muslim students for the most part, or middle class folks

[syeve]

reddit'd

http://i.imgur.com/NbbvA.jpg

Revolutions are Revolution-y

[ZeeZee]

Originally posted by desi112
Those are known to be paid mobs... the pro mubarak ones, and comprised mainly of poorer muslims. Where-as the protesters and christian/muslim students for the most part, or middle class folks

^^^
This... and government workers ordered to create havoc.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/02/egypt.pro.mubarak/

(the article keeps changing, but the gist of it is the same)

[CUG]

Originally posted by desi112
Those are known to be paid mobs... the pro mubarak ones, and comprised mainly of poorer muslims. Where-as the protesters and christian/muslim students for the most part, or middle class folks But by the thousands? I believe it, but damn, that's a bankroll.

I feel like it's the US buying time to select an "appropriate replacement" for him. While that seems evil and awful, I, for one, am not anti-Semetic, and don't want to see Israel wiped off the map.


Syeve wicked find :rofl:

[ZeeZee]

Originally posted by CUG
But by the thousands? I believe it, but damn, that's a bankroll.

I feel like it's the US buying time to select an "appropriate replacement" for him. While that seems evil and awful, I, for one, am not anti-Semetic, and don't want to see Israel wiped off the map.


Syeve wicked find :rofl:

Take a look at the pictures around the net of this uprising, bearded mullahs make up a very small fraction of the crowd.

[CUG]

Originally posted by ZeeZee


Take a look at the pictures around the net of this uprising, bearded mullahs make up a very small fraction of the crowd. I want to be a bearded mullah, how do I make this happen?

[ZeeZee]

Originally posted by CUG
I want to be a bearded mullah, how do I make this happen?

1/3 ignorance
1/3 inability to think critically
1/3 wanting people to think you are religious

There you have a 'mullah'.


"Mullah" is actually a derogatory term used by Muslims towards men who want to appear religious, but lack sufficient intelligence, knowledge and humility to be taken seriously. When they begin to congregate in large numbers, they become extremists, hate Jews (actually, they hate pretty well everything) and want to bring in 'sharia law'. Most of them don't know a thing about sharia law, they just know it's what they want.

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Originally posted by CUG
But by the thousands? I believe it, but damn, that's a bankroll.

I feel like it's the US buying time to select an "appropriate replacement" for him. While that seems evil and awful, I, for one, am not anti-Semetic, and don't want to see Israel wiped off the map.


Syeve wicked find :rofl:

Even if the new Egypt proves hostile to Israel, I don't think Israel is in any danger of being wiped out.

[CUG]

Originally posted by ZeeZee


1/3 ignorance
1/3 inability to think critically
1/3 wanting people to think you are religious

There you have a 'mullah'.


"Mullah" is actually a derogatory term used by Muslims towards men who want to appear religious, but lack sufficient intelligence, knowledge and humility to be taken seriously. When they begin to congregate in large numbers, they become extremists, hate Jews (actually, they hate pretty well everything) and want to bring in 'sharia law'. Most of them don't know a thing about sharia law, they just know it's what they want. What about the beard?

I'm still trying to figure out how self-proclaimed intellectuals are willing to support and coddle people who advocate sharia law, but lay rip to whitey religions.

Pizzaman, it's the third border, and a previously cold relationship. I can only see it devolving from there..

[Feruk]

Originally posted by NuclearPizzaMan


Even if the new Egypt proves hostile to Israel, I don't think Israel is in any danger of being wiped out.

Almost too bad. I've met lots of muslims I like, but never once have I met an Israeli I like.

[calgary403]

Originally posted by Feruk


Almost too bad. I've met lots of muslims I like, but never once have I met an Israeli I like.

Well that settles it.

If YOU have not met one you like they are ALL bad. Let's get the nukes ready!

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Feruk


Almost too bad. I've met lots of muslims I like, but never once have I met an Israeli I like.

I haven't met you, but I don't like you.

[2.2vtec]

I don't understand why so many people back up Israel? If people were to actually know what they do they will probably realize they kill more innocent people then any extremest muslim group.

[desi112]

Originally posted by 2.2vtec
I don't understand why so many people back up Israel? If people were to actually know what they do they will probably realize they kill more innocent people then any extremest muslim group.

because every community as the right to exist. They have been through enough as a people and deserve the right to settle down for a decade or so.

[2.2vtec]

Originally posted by desi112


because every community as the right to exist. They have been through enough as a people and deserve the right to settle down for a decade or so.

so does Palistine...still doesn't mean it gives them a reason to exsert force and kills thousands of innocent people. Why not have peaceful protests like Egypt started out to do?

[Feruk]

Originally posted by r3ccOs

I haven't met you, but I don't like you.

Not the same as I've actually met Israelis. Sleeze balls.

[JMaj7]

Although they have a right to exist as a community, the land is occupied according to international law. The fact that they are considered a state is a joke. I have nothing against Israelis, Jews or any group at all. I judge (not apparently) people by there virtue and the contents of their character. I think it is unfair to displace an existing society just to give another group of people a break. There have been genocides before and the victim group was never just handed a chunk of land because they have ancestry there in a religious text. Also, why don't people distinguish between Jews (as in people of the Jewish faith) and Israelis (citizens of Israel). Now that we are 50 years in, I think Israel should be allowed to exist but Palestinians must be given a fair share of the land and a proper border and some human rights. This is not an Muslim vs. Jew thing but since both religions promote association, I understand how the entire Muslim world is in agreement on the unfair treatment of Palestinians. I'm sure there are non-Muslim Palestinians that are suffering as well.

Going back to Egypt,

I am in full support of democracy there and I am pretty sure the middle class/younger Egyptian majority will not put Israel at risk. Last thing they need is a war. They will get their asses handed to them. There are diplomatic solutions if the international community stopped the suffering and oppression in the region. This is the only fuel these "mullahs" have to recruit people who r usually suffering from disorders if their own.

I envision that any military resistance from Muslims is like target practice to American and Israeli armies so the terrorists use fear and senseless violence to keep the fight going because they have a ridiculous world vision. It's not a very ancient world vision considering how integrated religion is in most societies.

[Toma]

Peaceful protests? In Palestine? From the divided, chekpointed, fenced, strangled prison camp from within which they live?

Who are they gonna protest too?? lol. What Parliament building will they be able to get to? lol.

I suggest as a start, you read Jimmy Carters book, "Palestine, Peace not Apartheid" (Jimmy Carter is a former President of the US, and since then become quite the humanist.)

I would also suggest you watch John Pilgers documentary which is free on his site and elsewhere, "Palestine is still the issue."

[desi112]

Originally posted by JMaj7
Although they have a right to exist as a community, the land is occupied according to international law. The fact that they are considered a state is a joke. I have nothing against Israelis, Jews or any group at all. I judge (not apparently) people by there virtue and the contents of their character. I think it is unfair to displace an existing society just to give another group of people a break. There have been genocides before and the victim group was never just handed a chunk of land because they have ancestry there in a religious text. Also, why don't people distinguish between Jews (as in people of the Jewish faith) and Israelis (citizens of Israel). Now that we are 50 years in, I think Israel should be allowed to exist but Palestinians must be given a fair share of the land and a proper border and some human rights. This is not an Muslim vs. Jew thing but since both religions promote association, I understand how the entire Muslim world is in agreement on the unfair treatment of Palestinians. I'm sure there are non-Muslim Palestinians that are suffering as well.

agree with you on alot, except you cannot differentiate between an israeli and a jew.

[Toma]

Originally posted by desi112


agree with you on alot, except you cannot differentiate between an israeli and a jew.
This seems more and more true unfortunately...

Excuse the brain fart, I have not completed my thoughts or done adequate research...

I think Jews, are the only people of religion, that view their religion as an ethnicity, or even race, and Israel seems like the only country in the world formed, and based on this false ethnicity.

It's quite interesting.

In the end, it is apparent that Israel is a Jewish state (the religion), and I just cant think of another country in the world that is solely founded upon a single religious doctrine.

And since all religion is false, then the Jewish state is a lie?

Huh.... interesting lol

[JMaj7]

Originally posted by desi112


agree with you on alot, except you cannot differentiate between an israeli and a jew.

Of course you can, there can be Jews from any nationality.

Is there no such thing as a Christian Israeli? Or a Muslim one?

I'm just saying that these are political problems that religion and out of control leadership blow out of proportion. Most of this stems from both parties sense of entitlement, thanks to a few books. I mean I've read the Quran, the Torah and the Bible and I still don't think people should be suffering over some peoples interpretation of them. All three of them were kind of a drag and we have bigger problems to deal with as a specie.

[CUG]

Originally posted by JMaj7
Although they have a right to exist as a community, the land is occupied according to international law. Just to be clear, you have no issue with someone occupying the land, provided they are muslim, right? Read a fucking history book. That land has swapped ownership more than your honda civic.


Originally posted by Toma



And since all religion is false, then the Jewish state is a lie?

Huh.... interesting lol More importantly: All muslim states are a lie. What say you of that Mein Fuhrer?

[ZenOps]

I'm trending towards the guys who came in on horse and camelback and starting whipping the anti-Mubarak people in the streets.

Not that Mubarak is the one I'd want in power, but I don't think Egypt is ready for a democracy. Maybe some sort of constitutional monarchy, sure... Sound familar?

Canada isn't even ready for a democracy.

Constitutional Theocracy? If possible, why not? Constitutional Democracy? Nah, not a chance, way too early.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[JMaj7]

Originally posted by CUG
Just to be clear, you have no issue with someone occupying the land, provided they are muslim, right? Read a fucking history book. That land has swapped ownership more than your honda civic.

More importantly: All muslim states are a lie. What say you of that Mein Fuhrer?

I didn't say that. If it was the other way round, it would still be unfair. I do have a good understanding of the history of that region. I have an interest in history and I learn more about it everyday (thanks to demonoid). I think it's irrelevant that the land has been swapped that many times in the past. we have been able to define "states" and "non-states", "colonies" and "occupied lands" to avoid land and power disputes. Regardless of who's who in the conflict, if you take a group of people and put them where another group of people live, most of the people (probably the conservative ones) are going to be upset. Especially if they are particularly patriotic, a little prejudice and religious. Now if the incoming group gets a military advantage and pretty much squashes the existing groups resistance and then starts to oppress them, naturally people who have more in common with the existing group will have an issue with that. Especially with all the freedom rhetoric going around. Now take another religious guy from the existing group, and watch him blame all of these problems on all religious, ethnic and national parties involved and use gods name to justify them killing people who probably believe in the same god. Kinda absurd that this happens on both sides. Except ones got more money and more influence on international affairs.

[SmAcKpOo]

Originally posted by ZenOps


Constitutional Theocracy? If possible, why not? Constitutional Democracy? Nah, not a chance, way too early.

I would be surprised if the population of Egypt actually knew what a constitutional democracy was in the first place.


Whats with all the anti-Jew hate in this thread?

[Toma]

Originally posted by ZenOps
I'm trending towards the guys who came in on horse and camelback and starting whipping the anti-Mubarak people in the streets.

Not that Mubarak is the one I'd want in power, but I don't think Egypt is ready for a democracy. Maybe some sort of constitutional monarchy, sure... Sound familar?

Canada isn't even ready for a democracy.

Constitutional Theocracy? If possible, why not? Constitutional Democracy? Nah, not a chance, way too early.
I'm not sure any country is ready for democracy....

People would have to become logical Vulcans for a true democracy to work. As emotional humans, easily sold on consumerism, easily swayed by techniques of propaganda and persuasion, behavioural economics, and have SOOO many beliefs rooted in nothing more than emotion...

How the hell can a democracy work with such a species?

[JMaj7]

Double post.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by JMaj7

Regardless of who's who in the conflict, if you take a group of people and put them where another group of people live, most of the people (probably the conservative ones) are going to be upset.

You know what's interesting? You can apply the same statement to Canada today. People in this forum always take the attitude of "assimilate into Canadian society or GTFO" when it comes to immigrants today. However, exactly the opposite happened in Israel and yet people are always of the mentality "Israel FTW." Ironic?

[1barA4]

Originally posted by Feruk


Almost too bad. I've met lots of muslims I like, but never once have I met an Israeli I like.

I have an israeli friend who looks like 12/10ths scale Natalie Portman so if there's more like her over there, at least there's something worth saving in Israel...

[CMW403]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Typical trolling Toma, are you certain that Jewish people view themselves like that or is it your blind hatred of Jews making YOU view them as a race rather than a religious group? Are you also certain that it isn't YOU that thinks Israel is only Jewish.

There are obviously outlandish stereotypes with each religion; assumption of race is no exception.

But the fact remains that race really has no bearing on what religion you choose, or the country you live in.

I don't think hes trolling at all, I agree. Jews are the only religion that actually get offended when you call them "Jews" (the name of their religion). They act like its a racist term like N*gger or Ch*nk. This separates them from the crowd of other religious people that are happy to be called "Christian" "Catholic" "Mormon" or "Muslim".

[DonJuan]

just to get this back on topic, a little tidbit of info.

Canadian banks are now no longer accepting or aquiring the Egyptian Pound. This usually means that there has been a change in position on egypt by the bank of Canada.

[C_Dave45]

"You're doing it wrong"
:rofl: :facepalm:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2011/feb/03/egypt-protesters-head-protection-helmets?picture=371390034#/?picture=371390034&index=1


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/2/3/1296754323515/The-head-protection-being-002.jpg

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by DonJuan
just to get this back on topic, a little tidbit of info.

Canadian banks are now no longer accepting or aquiring the Egyptian Pound. This usually means that there has been a change in position on egypt by the bank of Canada.

Yup, the currency wars are starting to hit their stride. Personally this is the year I consider refusing US paper and electronic Zuckerberg dollars.

Tangible goods like cotton have tripled in price in less than a year. Tin and copper, through the roof. I figure some goods will jump at least 3x in relative US dollars this year as well, for as many years as necessary to bring people back to earth on realistic expectations.

Food of course, is about 2.1x where it should be nominalized at - which is causing, and will continue to cause more global riots.

[Godfuader]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
"You're doing it wrong"
:rofl: :facepalm:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2011/feb/03/egypt-protesters-head-protection-helmets?picture=371390034#/?picture=371390034&index=1

:rofl:

This guy has the right idea. Ready for a cook-off and a swim-off...all the while staying hygienic.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/2/3/1296754330122/The-head-protection-being-008.jpg

[Godfuader]

Rumors of Mubarak stepping down NOW!

Reuters saying no step down planned....stay tuned...watch live

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[Benny]

Mubarak just spoke. Not stepping down.

Gonna be bad news bears pretty soon here. People sound PISSED.

[syeve]

Originally posted by Toma

I'm not sure any country is ready for democracy....

People would have to become logical Vulcans for a true democracy to work. As emotional humans, easily sold on consumerism, easily swayed by techniques of propaganda and persuasion, behavioural economics, and have SOOO many beliefs rooted in nothing more than emotion...

How the hell can a democracy work with such a species?

Wholy crap - I agree with Toma.

[ZenOps]

Mubarak to Protestors.

"Psyche!" :bullshit:

[Godfuader]

pa·tron·ize/ˈpātrəˌnīz/Verb
1. Treat with an apparent kindness that betrays a feeling of superiority.

30 years of power and 60 years of "service" is not something that will be overthrown in 3 weeks.

[5.0]

shits going down!

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by 5.0
shits going down!

LIVE too

http://www.youtube.com/aljazeeraenglish?feature=ticker

[pyroza]

Breaking: VP has announced that Mubarek will step down

:clap:

[Kloubek]

This shows that as long as you are not willing to commit genocide, no government can control their people forever - and at the end of the day, the people rule.

The problem with that though, is that history has shown us that people cannot rule themselves. They must be made to follow rule and order to some degree or a society will crumble. As such, I hope the public keep themselves in a state of relative calm. (I believe the power has been handed to the army - so they might end up alright)

Congratulations to the Egyptian people.

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by Kloubek
as long as you are not willing to commit genocide
This is a HUGE assumption, but I do agree completely.

[ZenOps]

Congratz Egyptians! FREEEDOM!







Sooo..... Why didn't Mubarak himself come out and say he was stepping down? Did someone tie him up in the back and beat him with a sack of oranges?

Egyptians are now under temporary rule of the military state, a military state majorially funded by the US... Yay! Cheers!

I wonder which general will get the biggest piece of the pie.

Darth Vader just replaced the Emperor.

[badatusrnames]

Was speaking to an Iranian friend... lets hope that the Egyptian people didn't throw out a soft dictator, only for something worse to come in and fill the void. The military is taking power, what's to say they don't end up wanting to relinquish it?

I'd be a little more cautious. Yes, Mubarak has stepped down, but the country isn't free yet. This transition period is critical.

From the first page:

http://i.imgur.com/xvRTw.jpg